133 - New Year, Renewed Awareness

You're listening to the Pure Desire Podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. Happy day, people. I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you are listening to episode 133 of the Pure Desire Podcast Here joining me as always, is my co host, Nicholas J. Stombo.

You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Inconceivable.

It is, although that's not the word I have in mind today. But, you know, funny story, over the holidays, my kids, some of them were exposed to the Princess Bride for the very first time. It was really an honor. Yes, it was an honor as a dad to sit and watch that. And yeah, I think for a couple of them, they didn't quite get it, but a couple of them thought it was as funny as I do. So that was a lot of fun.

That's awesome. All right, so we're moving right along with our New Year series, but before we jump into it, a couple quick things. Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't. We're on all the major platforms. Give us a review, help us reach more people, and it means a lot to us. And also follow us on social media, your DesirePDMI. And you can see some of this video content on YouTube as well. Just search Pure Desire Ministries. So in continuing with that new Year series, we sat down with our Women's International Groups coordinator, Ashley Jamison, to talk about self awareness.

Yeah, and as always, Ashley's a treat to hear from because of her just her honesty, her willingness to process life with us. And back the intro. You know, I think awareness and self awareness is kind of in vogue right now. It's kind of a trendy thing to talk about, but it's a word that we may not be using in a way that it's intended or meant. And so I think today is about helping us all unpack. What does self awareness look like and how does it contribute to our health and growth as human beings?

Yeah. And we get into practically what it looks like to develop it, how it benefits the other people in our life and really how we know if we're using it for unhealthy. So I think there's going to be a lot of good stuff on here for you. So enjoy the episode. Ashley, we have you back, and this time you're in person. We're not just seeing you on a computer screen in Idaho, so far away, you're actually here.

I don't know what to do with myself. I feel Like, I have a real.

Job coming into the office. I just got a vision of Ricky Bobby and Talladega Knights where he's in the interview and he's like, I don't know what to do with my hands. Okay, so we're glad to have you back. Super excited to talk about this. We have now entered 2020. Insert whatever sound effect is exciting or ominous, whatever you want for 2020. But we're still in this new season or this really the season of new year. New me, new rhythms, resolutions, all that. And so as we enter this new year of really what we Want to reclaim, 2020 is a year of renewal. And so one of the best ways to really do that is to grow in our self awareness. And so we're going to talk about that today. We talk a lot about self awareness in our material on this podcast and a lot of the content that we put out there. But let's talk about what we mean, because I think sometimes it's nice to just create a baseline definition. So what do we mean by self awareness?

Yeah, I think it's a good question to start with, to maybe compare it to being self conscious, because I think everybody knows what it's like to be self conscious. And when we're self conscious, right now, we're thinking about ourselves. How do I feel? How do I look to other people? What are they thinking about me? It's a really kind of consuming what's going on in my own thinking. Self awareness, I think, takes it a step beyond that. So self consciousness is driven by fear. What do others think about me? How am I coming across? Do people like me? Where I would say self awareness is rooted more in wisdom and understanding. So self awareness is, to me, there's kind of three layers to it. It's being aware of what is it that I'm feeling or experiencing, and then being able to link that to where is that coming from? Or what is that maybe linked to in my past? And then the third layer to it of. And how will that impact other people? So it might be in our podcast. Maybe I'm feeling anxious. So that'd be the first part of I feel some anxiousness. Well, where's that coming from? Is taking it deeper of, Well, I do tend to be a people pleaser. I want people to like me. That's part of my pattern. So that awareness of, okay, I can see where this is coming from and what might be driving me. And then to think about, well, how will this impact other people? That I might be a little more jittery or. And maybe I need to just be willing to say to people, hey, I'm feeling a little bit anxious right now. Like, you know, Ashley was sharing and. And that actually helps us process it because now we're. We're aware of what's going on. And so that's the way I think of it is just having an understanding of what am I feeling, what's going on inside and why, and then what do I do with it? What can I do about it?

Yeah, I mean, that was a really good answer. I don't really have a ton to add, but just in simple terms, for me, it's just why we do what we are doing, why we're feeling what we're feeling. Because sometimes we're completely unaware of why we feel the way we do. I know that just years of being in recovery work now. I think back to how I lived before and I just was always tired, always chaotic, always anxious. And it's crazy to think that you could even just live permanently in that state. And so just really being able to nail down that I feel anxious when this happens. I do this when I'm tired. That you're just becoming really an expert on yourself.

Yeah. I think of it like a muscle, that it's not like you're either self aware or you're not. You're just on the spectrum of like, either, you know, you're not. But there's all this room in between being fully self aware, which no one really is. So it's a muscle that really, I think, has to have practice and you have to put work in and it can't go untouched. It's not like, oh, I'm self aware. Cool. I'm done. No longer have to work on that. It's like, well, okay, good luck. We'll see you in a year when your life is back to a mess. So I think that's a muscle.

I happen to just have the opportunity to hear author Kurt Thompson, who wrote the book Anatomy of the Soul, come on to our podcast and Soul of Shame. Great books. And he made a great comment that I just thought of, really maybe makes a distinction between self consciousness and self awareness. That he said, self awareness is making sense of what I'm sensing. So self consciousness is just sensing something. I feel afraid, I feel anxious, I feel worried. Self awareness is making sense of that. What's going on here? Where is this coming from? And so like you were saying, Ashley, going a little deeper, just what's triggering me? What's making me feel what I feel? And yeah, making sense of what I'm sensing. I like that. That's good. So why are we talking about this today? Why is self awareness so important and why would we make it a big deal around pure desire in our groups and the conversations we have here?

Yeah, I think we address this a lot in our material and in our groups that you can't change something that you know, you don't know where it's coming from. You give the illustration of the dishwasher at the conferences and we talk about the runaway train that we just really can't begin to stop anything if we have no idea where it's coming from. And so self awareness is that first point. It's where we need to discover where things are coming from, why I do what I do. We all know what we're doing, but we don't always know why we do it. A lot of times we find ourselves in relapse again and we think, I thought I would never come here again, I thought I would never do this again. And so it's doing all that backtracking and that front end work of figuring out step by step how you get to that place that you never want to go again. And that's of course you know, the extreme example. But just in day to day living for me as a mom, I used to always pray. Help me to be patient with my kids, help me to not yell. Those were like two of my things. I've got these four crazy kids and I'm tired and I'm busy and I would constantly be praying and doing these devotionals on patience and nothing would ever change. But lo and behold, when I went through group and I started recognizing good self care and self awareness and relating my issues together that, you know, when I'm tired, I tend to lash out. If I'm going non stop and I don't give myself enough margin between things or I'm not eating well, that's when I lash out. It's not that I'm lacking patience, it's that I'm running my body ragged and then I have nothing to give to my kids. And so those kind of little daily revelations are just deal changers. I mean they can make or break anything, let alone from the big stuff. Avoiding relapse again.

I think that that's the thing that makes it so powerful is it's not just being able to identify that stuff, but then that actually gives me the ability or like, because this is the way I think about it. Read a book last year in our church called Gospel fluency. And there was this thing where the author's talking about the fruit to root that basically the fruit is really coming to fruition because of the root of what's happening underneath. And so self awareness gives us really the location of where that root is so that we then could address that, the root, which is what's dictating our behavior. So change is really only possible if we know where that's coming from. And so I'm going to try to kind of map this out a little bit better. In order to know why I'm doing what I'm doing, I first have to identify what I'm doing and then identify what's motivating, why I'm doing that. And that's where you start what's motivating the behavior and getting to that point. And I think that that's what self awareness really helps us get to is it identifies. Okay, this is actually where I need to focus not just on what are my actions, my words, my attitudes, but what's actually underneath and down at the root that's really motivating that behavior.

Yeah. And I think that's why it's so important, is that self awareness just isn't about who I am in isolation. Self awareness ultimately is about who I am in community. That what I sense and experience and feel becomes how I treat you, how I act in relationship, how I act in my marriage and my family. And so self awareness is so crucial because it helps us see beyond ourselves that who I am influences and impacts other people. In 2019, in my life in two areas outside of pure desire, significant leaders of things I'm a part of were fired. And I think there's an incredible similarity that in both situations, it was over a great lack of self awareness, that they were powerful leaders, visionary, articulate, very professional, like the kind of person you would want to lead. And yet they had a lot of blindness, a lack of self awareness to how their leadership, how their personhood impacted other people. And because they couldn't see it, they couldn't own it or even work on it. And so in both those cases, the groups just felt like, we don't have a choice here but to let you go because you can't see what you're doing to the people around you. So that's obviously the extreme example. But I think for every one of us, even if we're just thinking about our family, to realize who I am impacts the people around me. And I can either be aware of it and working on it, or blind to it and if I'm blind to it, I'm going to cause a lot of pain and a lot of problems.

Yeah.

I mean, even just with what you said, I would much rather be in relationship with somebody who's got some issues but is very self aware and constantly working toward recovering those issues than somebody who looks like they have it all together but isn't aware. If you ask anybody what issues do you have and what are you working on and where are your vulnerabilities? And they say, oh, I don't have any, I fixed all those. Then that would be, you know, a huge red flag for me.

We're not friends anymore.

You're not safe. Yeah, yeah. So with all of this, what steps can we take to grow in our self awareness?

So they're scary things. Probably. I mean, humility is the first thing that comes to mind as like really the starting place, getting to a place of humility and out of humility you're able to do some of these things. And the first one's really like ask other people questions. Recently this has been just kind of diving into what's going on. Personally in my life, I have been strongly convicted about really how judgmental in my heart I am toward other people. I'm pretty good at masking it and not showing people what's going on, but just revealing. I feel like the Lord recently through the Holy Spirit has been revealing that. And the next step for me other than like, okay, I hear you, Lord, that's cool. I could have just snuffed it and moved on, but I felt like I need to ask my wife if she thinks I'm this way. And so then that's super scary. Just be like, hey, do I suck in this area? Because when you ask that question, someone could say, yes, she was gracious, thank the Lord. Like, you know, she was like, yeah, I can see that. I mean, I think that that's something that I see coming out. And I kind of was able to ask the question and then talk it out with someone else and involve somebody else in that. So I think that's really the main thing I'm starting to see is asking input from other people, giving them the keys to my life a little bit and trusting that God can use the Holy Spirit in that person just as much as my own devotion time or prayer time. God can use other people too.

Yeah. What comes to mind for me is learning more and more to speak the language of emotion and identifying, okay, what am I feeling? And so I think in terms of growing in self Awareness, it's being willing, whether it's once a day, maybe in the morning or evening when we're journaling, or maybe the middle of the day as we're just taking a little breather and taking a walk, to kind of look through our day and say, okay, when I felt some intense emotion, what was I feeling? And try to name it. Was it anger or was it embarrassment? Was it fear? And then the next step would be to say, okay, why was I feeling that? So let's say I identified anger. I say, well, maybe I felt disrespected in a conversation. Okay, well, that's a why. But then self awareness really says, why is this a trigger for me? Where. Where else in my life have I felt disrespected? Or where do I first remember feeling disrespected? That this might be part of my pattern of how I react to feeling disrespected. So now I'm creating this awareness of, oh, I've. I have this pattern of when I feel not heard. I connect that to disrespect because that's how, you know, feel. For an example, maybe someone in their childhood felt like their parents never listened to them, and they just have that. That edge then of feeling disrespected. Well, now with that awareness, what am I feeling and why and where might it come from in my life? Then I can ask the final question of what am I going to do about this? So in some cases it might be, I need to let that go. I need to just pray through it. And between the Lord, I need to forgive and move on. Maybe we realize we kind of lashed out over that anger, and it's going to that person to say, hey, I. And then with another person, the great thing is in this growth, you can just repeat what you've become aware of. You could say to them, hey, I realized earlier today I got angry, and the reason is I felt disrespected. But I want you to know that that wasn't just about you. That this is something I've struggled a lot with in life. And I realized that's what triggers anger, and I lashed out. I'm sorry for doing that. I don't want to be that kind of person. Would you forgive me? And just having that humility to name it and claim it with another person then is going to make you more aware the next time that what I see is kind of the. What's the gap between when we experience something and when we become aware of it? So that's where I Think we grow in self awareness is maybe over time. Actually in the middle of a conversation I realize, oh, I'm being triggered by a feeling of disrespect. But that's more about my path than it is what's going on right now. So I'm going to take some deep breaths and stay present. Well, now self awareness is starting to work for us in the present moment. So I would just really encourage that as much as you can on a daily basis to say, okay, what am I feeling and why? Why, where might it come from? And then what can I do about it?

Yeah, yeah, I think that's really good. As you're. I mean, I used that strategy when I first started becoming aware of myself instead of just living in craziness. And it was that what did I just feel? And it was when my body would change for me to say, why did I just have a physical reaction and what mentally just happened? Or, you know, what did I just think about? What did somebody just say to me? And then when did I feel like that before? And then what you're saying is my go to next step, that it has to go out of my brain. And then verbally I have to share it with somebody. So I have like two people that I text and I know whether I did something wrong myself that I'm ashamed of or somebody did something to me, as soon as I text those people, I know it's out there and I'm accountable to work on it because those are my people that are going to hold me to the fire. And so even just when I, you know, make a choice in just a change in my life, I know if I text those people, then it's like legit.

And so writing it in stone a little bit, right?

Yeah. So, you know, having those people that are so good because you know that you gotta quickly get out, you know, whatever the Lord's convicting you in and get it to your people that can hold you to it.

And in my experience, those people are not. When you do that, people don't tend to lord that stuff over you. And when you are like, hey. Cause we've had these kind of experiences before where you'll notice something because we work closely together all the time. You'll say, hey, I noticed something about myself and you share that. I'm never just like, oh, yeah, you were totally doing that. I saw that. Way to go, man. You were really screwing up and now you're okay. Usually it's like, oh, I didn't even notice or realize. And so what's interesting is you start to promote self awareness around you when you do that. But from my experience, and this isn't necessarily everyone's experience, but the people that I tend to be vulnerable like that and share self aware moments with, they don't tend to like, you know, blow me up or make it this huge thing in the moment. They're more respectful. And so.

Yeah, yeah, well, I think we want to choose people to reach out to like you're saying, Ashley, that are on that journey of self awareness also because they, they get it, they see it. It's interesting because the three of us travel together to events with our pure desire teams and I think we've all had times where at the beginning of a trip we share something with the team about a commitment we're making while we travel together. Whether it's eating habits or when we're going to get enough sleep or something we've got to work on usually eating.

Whether it's eating habits or eating habits.

You're so right, Ashley, that, that does create a legitimacy of, hey, it's one thing if I've decided it by myself or even told my group who won't be on the trip, but when I tell the people I'm with that that really is an act of courage and humility because it's saying, hey, I am aware of a pattern I have that isn't always healthy and I'm sharing it with you guys who will be with me in those moments. And because it does legitimize, like this is something I really am aware of and now I'm going to the next level to work on it. So it takes courage and humility. But it is when you put it out there that now it's like, this is real. This is really going to have to get worked on or I'm going to have to admit, yeah, I'm blowing it off. And so it really helps us make some of those changes. But that does help us kind of go to the next step with this next question is as we're becoming more self aware and we're growing in it, what are some of the tools that we could incorporate or use that would help us with self awareness?

Yeah, I mean we've already talked about some different methods, you know, telling somebody or asking ourselves when we felt that way before and what's the root under it. But for those of us who are just beginning, it can be hard to self manage like that. That's kind of stuff you do once you're in the rhythm of Recognizing your own issues. And so in our groups, we have a ton of tools. I mean, that's kind of what we're about, is giving very clear, practical tools to help people. Just do the next step, do the next right thing, make the next choice. Um, and so we have the recovery action plan. We have the faster scale, which is probably number one. And all of our resources where you get to highlight things you're thinking or doing or not doing every day. The escape plan in unraveled. We have thoughts and feelings that the women do every week where they're connecting what they thought and what they felt. And a feeling is one word, a thought is a sentence. And so it's really helping them separate. Is this a feeling or is this a thought? Because I felt sad. But what were you thinking? I thought my husband was going to be disappointed I didn't have dinner done. I thought my husband didn't find me attractive anymore, whatever it might be. And so those things just start help. Helping for people to get their teeth into it so that then they can go through their day and kind of self manage, you know, like realizing when their emotions change or realize when they need to reach out for help. But to start with it really is just about getting group and having that accountability. And I think one of you mentioned earlier that you kind of can get away from that and then realize once life starts bringing you again that you need it. Oh, you said that. Because it's on a spectrum that you're, it's a muscle that you're growing. And so I see that all the time. I had Rich ask, what do women do after they're done with one group? I'm like, some of them go on to automatically lead another group, but the rest, they're like, I'm done. I don't want to do more homework. I don't want to give another night away. And then about three or four months later, they're like, I need that, I need that accountability. I need that self awareness again. And so it is, it's a muscle that you're constantly developing. Because if we have these rigid ways of thinking and our autopilot brain that just goes towards something when we're triggered or going limbic, then it really takes practice to build new pathways to react differently. And so getting in group is going to be key.

Yeah, so just an outside tool that I think, I mean all three of us use, and we've been using it probably for the last six months or so just in conversation here. And it could be any really personality stuff. But like, the Enneagram for me has been something that's been very helpful, understanding. And I know I can already hear people's comments or thoughts like, here we go, the Enneagram. Crap. Unbelievable. Let me just share my experience with it and if you think I'm ridiculous, then email me about it. The Enneagram has helped me. Yeah, right. The Enneagram has helped me identify not just what I do, but why I do what I do, what that motivation is. It's really put language to what the wounding message was of my childhood and what has motivated a lot of the decisions and habits I've created in my life. And then this is the author. We've talked about this book on the podcast before the road back to you. Ian Cron says that the Enneagram doesn't put you in a box. It tells you or it shows you the box that you're in and then shows you how to get out. My wife loves this. He's also said that it helps you to stop stubbing your toe on your personality, which I thought is just really good. So for me, it's just helped me put language to really become more self aware and put language to why I do what I do and what motivates that behavior. And so whether it's Myers Briggs or disc or other things like that, I think that pressing into some stuff where we become more aware about our tendencies can help us become more aware overall.

I like the analogy, Ashley, of the.

Muscle breathing right by the Enneagram. All right, thanks, Nick.

Well, I'll come back to it. Just hold on. This is hard work, you know, just like working out, it doesn't always feel good. We're not always in the mood. It's not always fun. It'd be easier to sit on the couch and eat Oreos and watch Star Wars. But if we want to get in shape, yes to those, we're going to have to go to the gym or lift some weights. And much like self awareness, to be humble, to address our weaknesses, to realize that I'm still being driven by a fear of failure that, you know, maybe started when I was six or seven years old. That that can be humbling. But it's the only way we get stronger and it's the only way we grow. And so, you know, just that encouragement to lean into it. Whether it's the Enneagram or something as simple as another tool I was thinking of is like the feelings wheel or just a list of feelings. I remember a friend a couple of months ago saying, basically for my whole life, I knew three emotions. Mad, sad, glad. Mad, sad, glad. Like, I didn't think in any other terms. And so he said to pull out a list of all these emotions and be like, oh, discouraged, disheartened, delighted. I didn't mean to use 3D words, but that's what came to mind. Yeah, that there's this whole range of human emotion that you are. And what I'd say is, you are feeling those things. You may just not have ever been able to put a word to it, but sometimes you start to identify a word that it's not just, I'm sad, it's that I'm actually discouraged. Then you look at it differently. You say, well, discouraged is more than sadness. Like, what's discouraged me? What has taken away my hope or my sense of peace? And now you're processing better just because you're learning more language to assign to what you're feeling. So I know in a lot of our workbooks it's great just to start there of I get guys in group that we start the faster scale and say, what were you feeling? And the first response is, I don't know. I was mad. Okay, well, look at this list of words that kind of look like mad. Do any of them? And they're like, well, oh, yeah, I was this. I felt offended. And okay, let's process now. So I think that's a great starting place.

Also could watch the movie Inside out that would like to help a little bit.

That at least gets you into five emotions.

Yesterday I was on my way to the gym and John was upstairs because he's off right now, and the kids were home and he went shopping because we're supposed to get a winter storm in Coeur d'. Alene. And he brought home caramel popcorn, which, you guys know I'm not doing sweets. And so I'm in the kitchen just like. You know how you see like a more caramelly piece and then you eat that piece and there's like another piece you want to eat because it looks really. And you like, just like the rabbit hole it is. Yeah. Wait, I just need that one. And so I'm like, mowing this popcorn. And then I finally just like, this is not going to stop. And I yelled out, I'm eating popcorn. And, you know, John came running down, and Ayla came running down. She's like, mom, go to the gym. We're hiding this when you leave. And when I came back, sure enough, I had no idea where they had hidden it, but they're like, we need to hide this until mom gets out of the house. But it was that moment like I knew I was on the track and like I needed to shout out for help so somebody could intervene.

Seriously. Well, hey, we're going to take a quick break from this conversation and talk about online groups. We are now in a new decade. Crazy, right? Crazy. And with this fresh start, this fresh year brings a lot of new opportunities for growth and health in our lives. And, Nick, one of the best ways we've both grown in our own sexual health is through group, right?

Yeah.

And so I think what we see is that there are a lot of men and women who have the desire to jump into group and start their healing right now, but they don't have groups in their area. They don't have people at their church who maybe are ready to lead or are willing to even jump in. And so that's why we have created this online platform for people to jump into groups.

Yeah, that's right. You know, my experience in group for the first eight years was as a leader in a local church. And then we moved to the Portland area, and there weren't groups in our local church. And so I started leading an online group. And I would say it felt first I was skeptical because it was like, you know, meeting over the Internet and video. This is going to be awkward. It's going to be weird. And there's always the technology side of it that you got to make sure everyone's videos are working in audio, and inevitably there's going to be someone's Internet's not working. But once you get through that and you're actually all in a video hangout together, I was amazed at how quickly it felt personal. There was connection. And I was able to share my story with other people who understood what I was working on and could share theirs with me. And so that is really my encouragement for anyone listening who hasn't had a group experience yet. There's probably a lot of reasons that you've given or come up with why not to, but I think you will find a healing community beyond what you expected. And so here we are at January, and many of us are motivated to change. We've called the holidays the season of relapse because there are all kinds of challenges with vacations and family of origin and being out of our rhythm that maybe right now someone listening is in a place of vulnerability and humility that they haven't always been, that they're looking at their life going, something's got to give something's got to change. And I think our encouragement would be to say the best thing you could do rather than just buying more books and more, you know, self effort. I'm going to try harder. This is the year I change. If you're not doing it with other people, people, the likelihood of success is just. It's really, really slim. And so that's why we have these online groups now. I'd love for them to first look and see. Could I engage with something nearby and go in person? But for a lot of people, the answer to that would be there's, there's nothing around me. So that's, that's why we have the online groups. And it's a great place to go and really dive into your healing in a new way.

And we have certified pure desire group leaders that will lead you through this roadmap to your healing. They are charged groups for that reason. We're charging 49amonth for people who are struggling and 29amonth for betrayal groups. And we do. We just encourage you to explore this option because this could be the thing that really sets a new trajectory in your life. If you're interested in looking at these online groups, go to groups.puredesire.org now back to the episode. Okay, so we've been talking about self awareness. How to develop it, how do I really get it into my life? So the question that this usually leads me to is like, is there such a thing as too much self awareness? What do you guys think?

Yeah, it's kind of like asking, is there such a thing as too much health? Well, that would be an oxymoron in and of itself because if you were doing something to an extreme that was now hurting you, it would no longer be health. So if you were doing something in the terms of self awareness that was so extreme it was now making you more angry or more depressed. Well, now it's not really self awareness anymore. It's morphed into something else. So in the one hand, no. If it's making you more aware of what's triggering you, why you're acting like you are, what impact it has on other people, that's always going to be good. But there are two things I would watch out for. One is if our self awareness never goes anywhere. Like we're just where. Yep, I'm triggered by fear because of this. And that's what happens to me every single day of my life. And I never tell anybody. I never work on it. Just I'm aware of it, but I'm not going anywhere with it. Well, that, that in a sense is self awareness. That's not accomplishing anything. And the other danger, and this is especially for those of us that struggle with being people pleasers, that that self awareness and self consciousness, to use that one again can be a very fine line. That in that sense where I become hyper vigilant of how did I make them feel and did I offend them and did they like the way I said that and am I making. So my awareness may actually fuel that self consciousness where I'm now so worried about what is everyone around me thinking about how I'm behaving, that we're sliding actually back into self consciousness. So I think that's where we just have to come back to what is fueling my self awareness. Is it fear of am I offending people and do they like me? Well then that is becoming unhealthy. And if that's the case, then I think we just sometimes have to calm down and go, you know what, I don't need to read into every sentence and every conversation. Sometimes it's okay just to take a deep breath and keep going. And then, you know, at a later point in my day to be able to kind of look back and say, how am I doing? So those are the two areas I'd be just say, hey, be aware of your self awareness in those two places.

Yeah, I think it kind of like how you explain self consciousness can go, you know, be its own thing driven by fear and then there's self awareness. And then that can almost morph into just being over analytical. And you get those people in the group where it's like, this is to help you explain why you do what you do so you can make changes not to excuse it. And you know, even as a mom, it's like, hey, you're a five on the Enneagram, right? Yeah, super shy. But it's not an excuse to be rude. Like you don't get to use your shyness as an excuse to not say please and thank you or you know, and so really just making sure not to get in that trap. And I find myself leading groups with women that will get to this really good place of self awareness. And it's awesome. It's going from being self conscious to self aware. And then it can slide into. Well, that's how my brain works. So I just don't do those kinds of things. Bring it back. You need to just do it. Like there, there needs to be a point where you kind of just do it even Though, you know, your personality doesn't like that or your personalities, your traumas past, you know, formed you this way. And so it is that balance of being aware and then also not letting it keep you, keeping you from doing an excuse.

Yeah, that's really good.

Back to the, so personal example of that. Back to the judgmental stuff I was talking about earlier. I am a critical thinker and I know that about myself. Like I'm. I'm able to analyze things and create solutions for stuff pretty quickly. It's just the way my brain works. But I can use that to justify being a critical person because I think those two things are different. Critical thinker, someone who brings solutions to problems, someone who's critical is just negative. And so for me, I have done that in my life where I've justified, well, this is just the way I am. So when Nick says something and it's like he needs to tweak this or tweak that, I just think, oh, well, that's just the way my brain works. You're welcome, Nick. Rather than, no, no, no, like that's unhealthy. That's me pushing to. And I don't do that. I'm just using an example because you're saying real easy. Yeah, don't worry, I got some for you too, Ash. No, but like that, that's exactly what I wrote down for this answer was just the idea of. I tend to. And I think a lot of us can use self awareness to justify old, hurtful and habitual behavior. That doesn't help anybody.

Yeah. Even for me in my job, it's. I hate paperwork, I hate details, I hate organization. I mean, I like it. I just don't like to do it. I'm a people person. I like to be out there with the action. And so it's easy for me, like, oh, I don't, I don't do that. And it's like, no, everybody has to write blogs. Everybody has. Yeah, everybody here has to do that, you know, and yeah, and so it is. It's easy to just say, that's not my personality.

Right. Yeah.

Well, how does our self awareness benefit those around us?

I think you talked about this a little bit already, Trevor. That it becomes as we use that language. Or maybe it's in the podcast airing next week. We're doing two back to back. Anyway, spoiler alert. Yes. Just leaning into the next conversation. That when we start to walk in something, as we're just processing what God is doing in our life, what we're learning, it can't help but make a difference in those around us. We invite them into that same thing. And so I noticed this with my kids. Like, when I'm able to talk about, hey, I realized I was, I was triggered. You know, I used a harsh tone with you, but I was frustrated by this technological thing and technology bugs me and it makes me feel ineffective and like, I don't know enough. And so I got irritated. But it really wasn't about you. Well, in sharing with my kids that processing, it's inviting them when they get upset, they're going to just, I think, more naturally go, oh, what am I feeling and why and what's going on? And then they're going to say things back like, hey, I was. I'm mad about this test. I feel like I'm not ready. And so I'm upset. And I just hear that coming out. It's like, wow, that's really cool. Because we're, we're creating a culture of awareness. And as we speak that language, others learn it and speak it back to us. And it just, I think it helps all of us grow and learn from each other.

So our producer, Justin, who's sitting over here, off to the side, we have this rhythm a little bit where one of us, because we're best friends and we work together, so there's some dynamics that we end up dancing through sometimes through the day, and one of us will come to the other and be like, hey, I responded negatively or in a way that I didn't want to in this situation. My bad, we squash it. The interesting thing is that what I have seen is that that actually encourages more repeated behavior like that in the future. So it encourages. If I come to him and like, hey, man, I messed up, I'm sorry, that's creating a culture where it's okay to do that. And then he'll come and say, hey, because he's not perfect either. Sorry, Justin. But he'll come in and say, hey, I said this, or this is why I was triggered by that, or responded this way. And it just promotes more of that culture and more of that self awareness and the ability to communicate out of self awareness and want to change. And so for me, like, if you can create a culture like that around you, that's amazing because then everyone is working really together and in relationship to make changes of the areas of life that we need growth in.

Yeah, I definitely think that, you know, being a parent or being in relationship or working relationship with your friends, it's such a good opportunity to practice those Things because, you know, it's safe enough. And I saw my evolution over the last six or seven years of going from, you know, freaking out on my kids, which I always do, and then saying, you know, making excuse like, well, if you would have just listened or you wouldn't be so disobedient, like I would just hammer on them all the things that made me me mad. Where now, like I'm saying, I recognize, oh my goodness, I didn't get enough sleep last night and so I'm really edgy and I could have corrected them about the same thing but in a completely different way of just simple correction, natural consequences. And so now my teens will be downstairs and I'll freak out and go upstairs and then I'll come down and apologize and they'll all laugh and it's like, oh, we just told our friend that you'd be down in about 90 seconds to say you're sorry for overreacting. But you still have to do what I told you to do, right?

Yeah, totally.

So, but it is because then I see my kids doing it. You know, my little guy will say, I didn't mean to say that to you, Ayla. I was just really sorry. I was just really upset about my friend. Or I was just really. And they're starting to see that it's, you know, that they're being triggered in other areas.

Yeah, well, another way that our self awareness impacts others. Going back to what you were saying, Ashley, about our weaknesses, it helps us begin to manage our weaknesses in a way that can help people around us. So if I realize, for example, if someone's an introvert and they know they, that just get drained by being around people, they might have an awareness of, okay, if I work all day and then come home and we're going out to a party later that evening, I'm probably not going to be a very fun person. So maybe we communicate with our family. Like when I get home from work, I'm going to need half an hour to take a nap or to just totally disengage so that I can enjoy the party with you. And when we're able to communicate about those things ahead of time, our family can see it and like, oh, that really helped. Or maybe we know that when we're too busy we get overwhelmed and stressed out and so we can have a conversation with our spouse to say, hey, if, if we're going right from work to practice to this to that. What if we make sure we grab a quick dinner, a pizza or something, we can pop in the oven. Because if we have to also then come home late and figure out dinner, I'm just going to be angry. So that self awareness starts to look ahead and say, how can I manage my weaknesses? Knowing who I am, knowing how I react to situations? Now I can look ahead and hopefully be a better person and not let those situations dictate or control my mood because I can expect what I'm going to go through. And so just being aware then can help us live in relationship better with the people around us.

Yeah, yeah. I was even thinking about this with a recent lesson that I we worked through and unraveled where it's, you know, wanting you to put an example of when you stepped in and overreacted and then later realized that was a mistake. And this totally happened yesterday when I was packing and I was like, I need more clothes. And John's like, well, what you should do is just get a lot of things that can go together. And so in my mind I was thinking, he's gonna tell me I don't need a shop. And so I jumped to being like, you don't speak in front of people. You're not on camera. That's a trigger for him for me to jump in before he's done talking. He's like, but I was gonna say, you should go shopping for some new things and then just make sure they pair together. I'm like, oh, okay, well, that sounds good. But it was like it already happened. Like it was already triggered that I jumped in, assumed what he was gonna say. And that's something that we've been working on. But I can relapse in and I hate that about myself. And especially when he was gonna tell me to shop and now it's like under this cloud of darkness, it's not as fun.

So sad. When shopping is under a cloud of darkness. That's like the excerpt we're going to put out for the episode. We're just going to be like, are you in a cloud of darkness for shopping? Us too. Okay, so moving on to the next question. What if someone. Because when we experience self awareness and I experienced this, being the judgmental person that I was talking about, it's easy when I experience self awareness to identify people who I see in my life who don't have it and want to change them. So how do we handle that? What does it look like when we see a lack of self awareness in someone else? And what should that look like?

You can leave sticky notes about their issues.

Hashtag passive aggressive. Got it.

You can slam the door and sigh very loudly.

That's like mom passive aggressive 101.

I know. I think every woman who's passive aggressive. No, honestly, the best way this may sound cliche is to work on yourself and just start living it out. Because when we make healthy changes. And I was just talking to Nick about this. He sat down, he said, does anybody in your family play Minecraft? And I was like, oh, well, my little guy is totally an addict with Minecraft. But John decided to do no video games this year. And Waylon just brought me his tablet and says, I'm gonna do no video games with Daddy. Like, we didn't even tell him.

Oh, wow.

And so I know. And so he hasn't been playing video games either. And so it's like, right? There is just an example that when you change, then people around you change. I committed to not drinking wine anymore. John followed me. And so the more that you just live healthy, people see that around you and it's attractive because it's not coming at them in a preachy way or telling them super, super key, telling them what to do. Because I don't respond well when people tell me what to do at all. But if I see health in somebody else, then I want that because I want to be just as healthy and good. But I do think that in some cases, there is a gentle way to bring it up to somebody as well. Especially if it's a really unhealthy relationship where you can say, these are the things that I need in order to feel safe and stable in this marriage. And I'm not asking you to change, but I'm letting you know that I need these things in order to have trust, vulnerability, intimacy, safety, whatever it is. And really, that person then has the choice of whether that relationship is important enough for them to change. And then I also give the example of when I talked to Kairos when I saw him going Olympic and freaking out, that I. I had to say, like, your brain is reacting strongly to something I did. But even in that, I was owning something that I did to him where he was overreacting in that instance. So I think there is a way you can point it out in a nice way.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I think this is really hard because there's a lot of ways we do it that just basically come across as what's wrong with you. You know, figure it out, get your stuff together. And nobody likes that. What comes to mind for me is we can open the door, we can make the invitation, but we have to really let it be their choice whether or not they want to walk through it. And I think one of the ways that will look for me is if you're aware of something going on, just be able to say to someone, something like this, hey, I notice that you seem to be really agitated. Do you want to talk about what you're thinking or what you're feeling, or just kind of offering if they say, nope, like, hey, I'm okay, I don't need to press, I don't need to tell you what's wrong, but just trying to create space to let people process and asking them a question. What are you feeling right now? Is something going on that, that we should talk about? And, and sometimes that does create then an opportunity. Well, I. Yeah, I mean, here's. And they start to talk through like, this will happen with my wife that sometimes she doesn't. And that's great. And other times she'll start to kind of talk through what's going on. But that will, even for herself, lead her to like, oh, and then this. Oh, and she's even as we're talking about it, piecing together what's going on. So I'm not. I'm not fixing her. I'm not trying to, you know, tell her what to do, but in creating that space, she's actually able to, yeah. Come to some conclusion. And the same thing happens for me, especially as a verbal processor, it's like, well, let's talk about it a little bit. Five minutes later, it's like, oh, I think I just figured out what's going on, even if initially I didn't know. So open the door, make the invitation. But then you got to leave it to them to walk through.

I think another way to open the door too, is to ask them to. So this is some of the things I've tried to do is basically, if I'm coming up to my wife and just saying, hey, I'm processing through something right now, Can I talk to you about it? And it's just a me in trying to be self aware, inviting her into the conversation and then asking questions like, does that sound weird? Does that make sense? Do you see that in my life that way? Because that again, is one of those things where you're creating that culture around you, where you're creating that safe place. And it's that idea. You talk about it in our events, Nick. The gift of going first in so many ways, you take that first initial risk of being vulnerable and opening yourself up for pain and maybe disappointment or being hurt by someone else. And when you do that, it's like, oh cool, I don't have to go first. You know, Nick has created this opportunity for me. Now I can enter into that and also ask questions and be self aware. So I think that's another maybe a softer rather than. Because I think that we should call people out if we see stuff or encourage them or try to gently do that. And a way to maybe get them up to the door is to open it yourself and say, hey, I need your help.

Okay, so as, as we look to wrap up our conversation here on self awareness and growing in that, what would you guys say is kind of a marker or way of knowing that we've grown in self awareness? What do we look for or what might we see in our lives to say I'm growing in this area?

Okay, so I think I've told this story before. We were at an event in DC, a men's event, and Dr. Ted Slides didn't were wrong. They were wrong and it was my fault. And I got super triggered. He got up there and he was, you know, stressed. He's got his like, I had this whole presentation and now I don't have the right slides. What am I going to do? And I got super triggered super fast and felt like such a failure. And what was interesting, and this is I'm telling the story because this has helped me understand self awareness as be has. Something that's been growing in my life is within the first 15 minutes I reached out to my group, I texted everybody and said, hey, I'm super triggered. This is why pray for me. Bob Vandermeer was there with us and I'm like, he could tell something was wrong and he asked me what's up? And I just was honest with him. And then I ended up going back to Ted and having a conversation afterward and trying to clear it up. And so it probably took me a couple weeks to then look back and say in the first 15 minutes, what I did was I pursued health in two ways. And within the first hour, I pursued health in three different ways. I didn't used to do that when something would trigger. I wouldn't text or reach out. I wouldn't be honest about how I was feeling. And I for sure wouldn't go up to the person that was involved in that triggering moment and communicate. And so for me, there has to be a looking back over experiences that you've had or things that have been going on in your life and evaluate how did I respond in that moment. Think Back to last time you were triggered. How did you respond? And look at those, like, mile markers in the past. Like, okay, I can look back and I do. That, for me, was a turning point in my recovery. And not in, you know, my ability to not act out or to be sexually healthy, but in my emotional health. That's a mile marker that I can look back on and say, okay, I didn't used to do that. Now that's part of my habit, that when I get triggered, these are the reasons, these are the things I've done, and these are the reasons why I'm doing these steps for health. And so that for me is just a practical story that really helps me know that self awareness has taken place.

Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, that's probably the biggest thing that I've experienced is just having an experience and it being similar to one I've had before and going, oh, my goodness, this is the first time that that didn't happen. And so I remember that in my betrayal recovery when John went out of town for the first time and was gone for three weeks, staying in a hotel, and I didn't once think about what he was doing, what he was looking at. And I. And when he got home, I was like, oh, my goodness, that's never happened before. And I just remember, like, my brain can change.

Guess what I did. Guess what I did.

Always stalk you when you're gone, and it's so distracting. And then I'm so mean to the kids. And I actually had a good time when you're gone. And so it was just all this hope that I could change my patterns because I thought that was something I would always struggle with. Lack of trust and in different areas too, you know, like, I don't really throw dishes anymore. I say, really? Because whenever I say that, then I end up going home and throwing a dish. But I don't, like, throw things anymore.

I really do. I mean, once I don't really throw.

A dish, but just, you know, looking back at my past and saying, I used to be a disaster and now I'm fairly normal with normal issues and just, you know, that track record that your. Your relapses and whatever they may be sexual or not, get farther and fewer between, and you just have so much health leading up to them.

Yeah. One of the other things we hear a lot in terms of, I see it as growth and self awareness is when people realize that they're thinking in terms of the faster scale. Like, they'll say, oh, I could just feel that I had gone into speeding up three months ago, they didn't even know what that meant. But now they're actually feeling themselves go through stages and that awareness of just oh, I'm really triggered right now and I'm moving into ticked off. I'm in all or nothing thinking. And like I said earlier in the episode, the smaller that gap is between when something happens and when we realize what's going on, that's when we see growth. So it doesn't mean it's going to change immediately. And that might be the encouragement I'd give is self awareness doesn't guarantee change. There may be patterns like you know, for me, patterns of performance or perfectionism that for you, I just think they're a part of kind of how I'm wired and I don't know that they'll ever be totally gone. They're just something I have to be aware of and then keep working on. So that's the other thing to say. Don't get discouraged if you're like, wow, I'm still triggered by fear when this happens, like, okay, that's human. But if you're aware of it right away that I'm being triggered by fear and here's a good way to deal with it, that's the growth you want that I made a phone call or I reached out or I did this to deal with that fear. That's why we develop self awareness. So give yourself a pat on the back if you realize you did that. Don't beat yourself up because you're still getting triggered by something things.

Yeah, this was really good. 2020, we were saying this, this series, this is the start of the year. It's going to be a year of renewal and we can do it for self awareness, self knowledge really. And I love that identifying where self consciousness and self awareness, where the line is and how to move into self awareness. So Ash, you were here in person. Thank you. We appreciate you being here.

You should invite me again sometime.

We will. So new rhythms, new practices in our daily lives can bring about major change in growth. We hope that today's conversation will really help inspire you to prioritize growth in your self awareness. And part of that too really surrounding yourself with people who are also self aware. So wherever you're at on your journey, know that pure desire is here to create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to PureDesire.org and start your healing journey. Journey. Now, if you haven't subscribed to the podcast do it. It's free. Just subscribe. It'll be worth it. We promise. And lastly, never stop being healthy.