135 - Infamous Group Members: The Over-Talker

You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal and relationship issues. What is up, people? I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you are listening to episode 135 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here, joining me as always, my co captain, my co conspirator, my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Welcome to the jungle.

I'm surprised you didn't sing that, to be honest.

I was tempted to, but, you know, it's kind of that high, screechy, hard rock voice and I just know I can't really pull it off and like, my voice would crack and then, you know, in a kind way, you'd be making fun of me. And so I just, I decided to just use the words and not attempt to sing it, which I'm sure many of our listeners are grateful that I did not. Is that Guns N Roses? I believe so, yeah. They're probably glad I didn't attempt that. Yeah.

Yeah. And if it isn't Guns N Roses, then we're going to get emails. You shouldn't be listening to that music anyway. I'm just kidding. That's totally fine. Though it is true, we have been. This is our 135th time sitting down and having a conversation for the podcast. So that's. I mean, we spent a lot of time, a lot of hours together, so.

Fair amount.

Yeah. And you're right, I would, I would totally make fun of you. Today we are starting a new four week series on infamous group members, which we're excited about. But before that, let's jump into a couple things. Subscribe to the podcast. If you have not, don't wait. Just do it. You can find us on all the major platforms and if you can, please give us a review. It helps other people find. The podcast means a lot to us. You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram your desirepdmi. And if you like to consume video content, check us out. We've got some clips of these episodes up on YouTube. Just search Pure Desire Ministries. And in case you have not heard, we are now offering an upgraded online groups system. They're led by certified Pure Desire group leaders. And this is the quickest way to get into group and start your healing. Now we have groups for both struggling people, Betrayed spouses. We've got it for you. Go to groups.puredesire.org to join a group and get more info. Okay. Today we started the infamous Group Members series. We were joined by our international women's groups coordinator, Ashley Jamison and We talked about the over talker.

Yeah. And being in a group, especially leading a group, can feel like walking into the jungle. So welcome to the jungle. Because there's people that show up late, there's people that cross talk. There's the over talker. There's someone who doesn't do the work. There's all these things that come up that can just feel like, what do I do? And many of our group leaders we hear from that feel like, I'm not equipped to handle that situation. And they think they need a college degree and group management. And what we're trying to say, I think in this series that, yeah, these issues happen, but we can address. There's some kind of basic. I don't say simple in terms of easy, but pretty straightforward ways that I really think we can handle these things well so that they don't become a chronic problem in a group. And I would also just say this. When we hear from groups that are really struggling, typically what's happened is they have allowed these infamous group members to go on for far too long until it becomes kind of a group crisis. So for everyone listening, whether it's an issue that you're having personally or is in your group or. Or that you might be a leader at some point, I think what you'll hear throughout this series is address these issues often and early, and you're gonna have a good group experience. And that's really our heart and our hope for everyone out there.

Yeah. And we think you guys are really gonna enjoy this series. So enjoy the first episode. Ashley, you hadn't been on an episode for really a long time, and then now it's like two and three weeks. We're glad that you're back.

I know. I feel good to be back all the time again.

All the time.

A regular guest.

Yeah. Apparently she gets to decide. That's cool. What are we talking next week? Just kidding. So many of you who are listening, watching some of this, you've either heard of or experienced a pure desire group, whether it's online at a local church. And pure desire groups, really, they just continue to meet weekly, honestly, just for the fact that people want to pursue their healing and get healthy, whether it's from struggling with sexual brokenness or struggling with the effects of betrayal because of sexual brokenness. And really, as we've seen, all three of us have seen heard experienced in groups, either being members or leaders, there are people who are difficult or as we're calling them, infamous group members. And so you know that joke that basically, if you know, you're not the infamous. If you don't see the infamous group member in your group, it might be you. It might be you. So today we're starting a series on infamous group members. And the first one today is the over talker. Now let me start with this, Ashley. We didn't pick you because we think that you're an over talker. You have a lot of authority in leading groups. And so that's where we're going with it. So let's just start with this because you've led groups for years. Why, why don't you just describe when we say over talker, what are we talking about?

Yeah, I definitely am an over talker at heart. Takes a lot to rein it in. But basically somebody who monopolizes the group time either just by sometimes it's because they're constantly in crisis. So they're just always having an issue that needs to be talked about. It could be that they're just taking too much time. You know, somebody does a five minute check in with their faster scale and then another person takes 20 minutes. Not. Not sticking to what the question is about going off on side stories all the time. So really just an unequal amount of time is being spent on that person versus the other people in group.

Yeah. Something else I think we see with over talkers is they will always want to respond to what everybody else has to say and it will remind them of a story or I've experienced something similar. And certainly in a group, we want there to be back and forth. We don't want people to just read exactly what they wrote and then sit quiet and never interact. But if you notice someone is after every single person who shares, they have a thought, comment, feedback, advice, it just like it does start to dominate the conversation. And it feels like, well, we're kind of just led by this one voice and all the rest of us share a little bit. So quite a few things that can be a part of this symptom of being an over talker.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because I teach this at the conference. I've had somebody actually come up to me and say that these guidelines or, you know, dealing with these infamous group members feels really like it's lacking grace and mean that these, you know, that people are in crisis and in trauma and they should be able to come in and kind of participate with how they can at that moment. And I just wanted to point out that these are, these guidelines help make the group strong and help keep everybody in a good place to be able to share Just enough without dominating the group. Because you can't sacrifice the whole group for one person. If somebody is meeting all the time, then they probably need to start with some one on one counseling.

Yeah, we definitely want to have kind of an attitude of grace and of looking to create some leeway. Especially, you know, I think about leading groups. There's that first time maybe a group member comes and it's evident they've had a rough week, something unusual has happened. And I'll allow a lot of rope maybe for them to share a little longer to process what's gone on. But what you'll often find is that wasn't just a individual bad week. That's like their pattern. And if you let them, then that's what they're going to do every week. And so we do want to be careful of creating an environment that's healthy for everyone in the group. And I think that's really the heart of this episode, maybe even more so than the other ones we're going to do next. That the over talker is ultimately an issue of what about everyone else in the group? And so the challenges for the over talker, that may be what they want. They want a space to just share it all and tell their stories and they're happy. But the other six people go home like, well, another week of listening to Julie tell all her stories. And that can just destroy a group so quickly.

If your name is Julie, it's not personal.

That was not intentional. I should have picked a name. Nobody has.

Please stay in group, Julie.

Gertrude. If Gertrude overshared. So, Ashley, as we said, groups are a place for people to come and share. And often people are talking about things they never have before. There's things they want to get out, they want to get it off of their chest. So why is over talking an issue in group if the goal is to get people talking about some difficult topics?

That's a good question. And it actually brings up this ironic point that if you have somebody who's constantly, like you said, wanting to chime in or over share, then the person who really is sharing something maybe for the very first time could be shut down by that overshare. And, and I've had that happen in group two where somebody does share something for the very first time and then somebody wants to chime in and give advice, even use scripture. And sometimes those pieces of advice or scripture are very triggering to the person sharing. And so now the person who's finally trying to open up has to think every time she shares her answer or he shares his answer. Oh, I don't know if I want to go that deep because then so and so is going to give me some kind of piece of advice or whatnot. And so we do want people to share, but we think that our curriculum is really good. We see it work. And so a lot of times if somebody's over sharing, it means they're going way off of what's written down in their answers. And so I just, even as a leader, need to remind myself that even if they're sharing something very important, what we need to get through is the curriculum, because that's why we're here. And these points in the questions are really what we're here to cover, even though that other stuff still may be important, that's after the fact. And so a lot of times I'll say to women, let's share and get through all of our curriculum. And if we have some extra time at the end to talk about more stuff that we want to dig into a little deeper, we'll do that.

That's a good idea. Right?

And it's like it's one of those things where if you're over talking, then other people don't have that room to share. And here's something to consider, and we'll kind of get into this in a little bit too. If you are the over talker, you're actually hurting your own recovery because you actually could get a lot out of other people's process. What they answered, what they went through that week, how they're thinking, what they're saying in the moment, there's tons of value to be had there. But if you're over talking, and I like the way you said it, Ashley, if you're monopolizing basically the entire conversation, then you actually miss out on that added layer of the blessing of group, while on top of that basically shutting everybody else down and not allowing them to experience their own healing. And, and like you guys already talking about, this may be the first time someone's communicating that stuff in group. And you're basically saying that doesn't really matter and it's not valuable.

Yeah, well, and I like the way, Ashley, that you connected the issue of over talking to that group guideline of advice giving. Because if that person is always jumping in and telling someone a better way or using their own story, I think people will decide, well, do I want to have them share one more of their stories? Well, I'm not going to share mine. And so connecting those dots, especially if you're a group Leader to see what's going on in the group dynamics is really important. And the other thing I think that comes to mind for me, why this is important is because the person who's over talking is likely not just really confident and enjoys talking. I mean, sometimes that might be the case, but what I find more often than not is over talking is actually a protective mechanism. Over talking is a way for me maybe to deflect attention from what I really need to talk about. Because usually the over talker is telling side stories or going way off topic and telling some fascinating hunting story. And everyone's like, wow. But it really has nothing to do what they should have shared. And so they're actually deflecting attention or it's a ton of nervous energy coming out and they're just talking whatever comes to mind. And so that can be helpful too. If we look at over talking is not just a confident, talkative person. It's probably a way that they're covering or protecting something else that we need to lean into and try to figure out, okay, what's going on here? Why do you feel the need to dominate conversation or to control the direction of the group? Because that will help them get in touch with something they probably need to address.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah. It kind of reminds me of what you talked about on the previous, previous episode, Nick, when we talked about self awareness that you, you can cross this line where it's good to process and we want to get information out and we want to verbalize it and share it in a safe group. But then there comes a point where you could just be spinning your wheels over the same subject. And so when I have group members that are doing that or they're wanting to talk during the week, if they haven't done the action steps that I've suggested, like doing their homework, making their calls, using their faster scale, following through with their commitment to change, then I don't necessarily think it's valuable to keep spinning over the same issue again. And so a lot of times that happens in group where over talking can be one of their coping behaviors, where they just want to keep talking about it rather than, okay, we've talked about it, now we need to put some action to it. So there's lots of reasons why it's good to have healthy guidelines in the group.

So let's get into it then. If, let's say that we are an over talker and you know, as you guys are sharing, like, I, I know that I do this too, and I have a tendency to do this as well in group. So let's say us, ourselves, we are the over talker of the group or we know that we're like that. How can we improve? How can we stop talking so much and how can we man, really move away from monopolizing the time in groups?

Yeah, that takes some self awareness.

So if you haven't listened to the.

Self awareness episode, it really does. I mean, it's that humility piece of you might need to ask your group members for help saying, you know, I'm noticing that I'm going off track. I've even done that as a leader. After I get back from a conference, I remind myself by teaching these things that I'm advice giving or I'm over sharing. And so I'll come back after a conference and say, hey, I need to rein in my own behaviors a little bit, even though I'm the leader. And so giving people permission to help keep you on track, to help you remember to read what you wrote to answer the questions. But really the best thing that you can do is just remind yourself to read what you wrote to allow yourself to have that time during the week where you're processing and making all those connections and articulating it down on paper. And then during group you read what you wrote. And so even just that simple reminder, I'm only going to read what I wrote and that way I'm going to really think about what I'm writing during the week and that's it. And then of course, ask for help if you need it.

Yeah, I agree that sometimes it's just in humility saying to your group, hey, you know, I've led groups a lot and sometimes I love to try to share my experience to help you guys, but would you be honest with me? Am I doing that too much? Am I sharing in a way that sometimes makes you fearful to tell a story? Because, you know, I'll offer advice. I really want to find that balance between leading the group well and using my experience to our benefit, but not making it all about me. And so that's. That can be a little scary to ask, but I think in humility we need to as the leader. And another tool that we have found, especially on the group check in time, is just having that timer of, hey, there's six people in group. We want to get through this in 30 minutes, or maybe it's 40, so everyone has five minutes. And making sure that you as a leader follow the same guidelines to say, I'm, I don't get bonus time just because I'm the leader. I'm going to share my check in the same amount of time as everybody else. And one final thing that I have done because I've been in group a lot and I always want to say something or there are points in the group where I will really consciously be thinking, okay, whatever happens, I'm not going to be the first one to talk. So for an example might be when a group member is sharing their check in, that maybe they've had some unique issues come up or you just see some holes in their story and you're ready to like, hey, could I ask you a question? I'll just say, you know what, I'm going to wait and I'm not going to talk first. I've been pleasantly surprised how many times someone else in the group will go, oh, do you mind if I ask you a question about your check in? And then they take that lead. And so if I just have that discipline internally to say, okay, I'm not going to be the first one to talk. You know, as you review a page, I'll turn to our lesson and say, hey, what'd you guys get out of page 176? And I'll wait. And even if it's 10 seconds, like, I'm not going to be the first one to answer my own question. I'll wait until someone else chimes in. So just being patient sometimes to wait and not fill every space because I think that's what we can get into as leaders. Just feeling like if there's a dead space, I'll jump in and fill it to make everybody okay. Sometimes a person is just processing and they need time to be the one to speak up. So take a deep breath, you know, count to 10 in your head and let others jump in. And I think that'll create a healthy group dynamic.

Yeah, I think something too, and this is, this maybe might help. I'm just thinking of practically if you're that person in group that if you do feel like you need to have. Well, because here's what happens. If we realize we're the over talker, then what we can do is we can tend to swing the full other direction. Like, okay, I'm not going to overshare at all. I'm not going to actually share much at all. And so I think that maybe in that you might be able to open it up and say, hey, I've got something I'm thinking about. Do you guys mind if I just share a little bit and we can talk through it? And if it really is something that's significant. You feel safe with these people. It's probably something you guys can spend some time talking about where I'm going to open up for a couple minutes and then you guys ask some questions and help me process through that. Because there still should be a part of group that is flexible enough to allow those spaces. It's just when that becomes something that's regular every single week, that's a problem. But just open it up. I mean allow, allow other people to give you permission to share a little bit more if you feel like you're in that space and need it. We're going to take a quick break from this conversation and talk about accountability software. Just like Batman's utility belt, we all need tools to help us create sobriety and maintain health over the long haul. One of the first and simplest tools to implement is accountability software.

Yeah, absolutely. One of the challenges we face in today's Internet age is never before has access to, you know, explicit material been easier, faster, more prevalent. And really it's, it's a form of arrogance, if I could even say that. Way to think we don't need help in our faster scales that we do in group check ins. Step one involves overconfidence. And I think if we feel like, oh, I'm fine, I can navigate this now there's some overconfidence that comes. And so part of everyone's healing journey we really feel is that accountability software because it creates that continual feeling for you that the Internet is not a place I go alone, that I'm actually there with friends who I can be accountable to and I can use the Internet for healthy things because it has tons of benefits and we want to use the Internet well. But the best way I know to guard against all the dark corners that we can get pulled into is knowing if I go there, my friends are going to see it too. And that's why accountability software is vital for anyone's recovery journey.

Yeah. And we have three options that we really suggest and we hope that you consider. And really it's one of those things too where we offer these different options because different options offer different benefits that maybe work best for you and your community. The three options are Covenant Eyes ever accountable and accountable to you. For Covenant Eyes, if you go to covenant eyes.compuredesire or you enter the promo code Pure Desire, you will get one month free. And it also gives us a little bit of a kickback as a ministry. Covenant eyes is $11.99 per month. And again you get that free first month free. The second one is ever accountable. Go to ever accountable.compuredesire you can sign up. That is 6.99amonth. And then there's accountable to you accountable the number 2 and then y o u.com so that's accountable the number 2 y o u.com use the code pure desire. You'll get some benefits there as well. And again guys, we would just say that this is one of the most helpful tools to have in your belt. So we hope that you can center accountability software.

Okay, so Ashley, if we're in a group and someone is over talking and maybe we're not the leader and we feel it's not being addressed, what should we do as a group member? Do we just kind of let it happen and hope it gets better? Should we be proactive? Do we speak up in group? Do we drop out and find a group where there's not an over talker? Like what kind of advice would you give to group members who want to see their group be better but they're not sure how to handle this situation?

I have found that the best way leading groups has been to give the group members permission to let me know because it's not just in group, it can be within like the text messaging during the week and the phone calls that some, some of my ladies can feel very trapped by over talkers on the phone or through text or in group. And so really for me, I think the best way is that the person who feels like a group guideline is not being met should bring it up to the leader because then the leader can address it as a group whole. That's usually what I do. And everybody knows we get a little lax. So it's not, it's not bad or you know, abnormal to have to address guidelines every once in a while and just kind of rein it in. And so then I'll text the group and say, you know, first five minutes of group we're going to go back over the guidelines and I'll just remind the group and then I might have to get back in the habit of before we go into the faster skill sharing or before we go into a chunk of sharing out of the material, just remind them, please read just what you wrote because there's everybody wants the chance to share, so stick to what you wrote and I'll just do another reminder and usually that helps. If it continues to go on, then I will call the person individually just so nobody's feeling called out in group. Yeah, I just, no Matter how nice you say it, when you say something in group, like, you know, you really picking up all the time, it just ends up with hurt feelings. So I always feel like it's best to go to the leader and have the leader address it as a group and then address that person privately. You know, next, if it's still going on.

Yeah, yeah. Just what you said, Ashley. I made that mistake in one of the groups I was leading where I could tell a guy hadn't written down his answers. He'd taken all these rabbit trails. And kind of being a joking comment at the end as the leader, I said, wow, you wrote all that down. And I saw what happened is that it kind of offended him and it called him out. And I think he felt a little embarrassed. And for many men, especially, their reaction to feeling called out embarrassed is to power up and get defensive. And he was getting angry. He's like, do you want me to go like, whoa, whoa. And I did not think through that because I kind of publicly called him out. That that felt humiliating to him. And so, yeah, that need to try to address things personally outside group first is really wise. And the other thing I'd encourage to group members, this is the kind of thing the group guidelines say, you know, take a. Take responsibility for your group. I think it's healthy to go to the group leader and just say, hey, I noticed that Joe is kind of dominating conversations. Do you see that, too? Because it may be that the leader has also. And they're talking to Joe and working with them. And so sometimes it's good to start there, because if you approach Joe and the leaders now, pretty soon Joe might just feel like, everybody hates me. They don't want me in the group. So I think having a conversation with your group leader first is also wise, because if they're not aware of it, it really is a great place for the leader to address it if they can, because it does just create a healthy dynamic of a group leader reaching out. But definitely don't just keep letting it happen, because if you're having a bad group experience, you're not the only one. Others are feeling the same way, and you need to speak up and work towards a better group experience for everyone. So don't think you're being kind. Well, just let him talk. Just let him go. Because it's just going to keep happening. It'll probably get worse. The sooner you can step up and have some good conversations, it can really help everyone.

I think there's something too, to taking ownership, and we'll get into this even more as we go through these episodes. There's an element of just leading by example, like be someone who does their homework and just reads what they wrote. And another really powerful piece of that is kind of self policing, that if, you know, man, I overshared last week. Come to the group. As soon as you start your time and you're about to share in the check in, just be like, hey, look, guys, gals, like, I. I overshared last week and I felt really bad about it and I just wanted to own up to it. And I'm gonna ask if you guys could help me be accountable for that and then be done and then move on into your, you know, into your answers for the week. I think that that could go a really long way to not only inviting other people in to help you and hold you accountable, but also create that culture of, you know what, there's gonna be some self policing and some self awareness that maybe might grow out of that. So I think that can be pretty powerful.

I think that's really good advice. I also, as a leader will, a couple times throughout the course of going through group, just text my ladies individually and ask them how they feel. Like, are they getting enough sharing time? Are the phone calls going okay? Because I'm not involved with the phone calls. And so I want to make sure that things outside of group and how they are inside of group are comfortable and safe for them and that they feel like they're. They're getting what they need to get out of group. And usually they say things are good because they know to come to me if they're not. But every once in a while they'll say, well, you know, I've been having a little trouble with this. And it will just be a guideline that I go over again in the next group. And usually that nips it in the bud right away.

Yeah, well, and you're already kind of getting into it. Let's just ask this question. If you're a group leader, how do you help create a group culture that's this way? And how do you handle having group members handle it in a good way when there are members that over talk?

Yeah. I think just reiterating the guidelines, and I think Nick had said sometimes we're just filling the silence. So that's something that I point out and call out regularly, is that it's going to feel uncomfortable to just let people share and then say thank you and move on and not feel like you want to say something. Give them encouragement and that's one of the biggest gaps that can be filled with over talking is just responding to people. And so I really encourage them, especially if I know it's a part that a lot of talking can happen. I'll remind them that we're all going to share. We're just going to each take our turn going through the answers, reading what we wrote, and we're not going to do a lot of commenting in between other than, you know, thank you for sharing that or I can relate to that and it's helping me or something very simple and then sticking to the guidelines. And I remind them not to do popcorn sharing. So we've talked about how impactful it can be to hear other people's answers. And I just encourage the women to not jump in after that person shares, but to wait until it's their turn to share and then start their sharing time by saying, hey, you know, when you shared that, that really meant a lot. It helped me connect some dots to my story. And I appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing that. Then go into your answer. But when we start cross talking and doing the popcorn thing and yeah, me too, and one time this, then it really can get out of control. So go in order of sharing, stick to the guidelines of, you know, reading what you wrote. And like Nick said, maybe if you need, or Trevor, maybe you said it, if you need some extra time, you know, saying, can I, can I expand on this and can you guys give me some feedback, really asking to go off subject because then the leader may say, let's wait till the end and if we have time at the end, we'll do that. If not, let's do it in a phone call or something like that.

Right? Yeah. And I think that's why it's important that groups are following the recommended time pattern, that there is a time for the weekly check in because that has kind of some specific guidelines around it and people are reporting on some questions they've answered. And then when you get to the workbook, like when you're dialoguing about the reading, there is some latitude there for people to talk back and forth and share with each other because we're talking about the reading. But if you also know, and I've done this in group where I say, hey, we've got quite a bit of homework questions to answer together. So we're only going to have about 10 minutes here to discuss the reading. So I just want to let you know, I might jump in and say, hey, let's go to the homework. But what did you get out of the reading this week? So I'm kind of preemptively saying here's, here's what we have for time, here's what we're able to do. And so there, then there is within like that 10 minutes or some weeks it might be 30 or 40. There is some freedom for people to share more as they interact with the reading. You know, the other thing I found as a group leader is once someone is in the middle of over talking, you know, they're getting into a story about their wife and what happened this week. I am not good at all at pulling that train back in. Just how do I do it without interrupting them or embarrassing them? And if there's someone out there that has great tactics, how to pull that back in without being rude, I'd love to hear it because I just think that's super hard once it's happening. But that to me is why as a leader, I think being proactive is the best thing to do. Saying to people, hey, we want time for everyone to share, so please stick to what you wrote. Or I will appeal to the group timeframe. Let's say, hey, we've got about 30 minutes before we wanna be done. We're going to need at least 10, 15 minutes to do our commitments to change for the week. So that means we only have 10 more minutes for sharing. And if we all stick to what we wrote, that's enough time. But if we start sharing other stories or rabbit trails, it won't be so in the appeal to that. And I think group members like to know we're going to end on time. That awareness of, oh, okay, I get it, I see it. And then they're much more content with just sharing what they wrote. And it underscores, like we said on a lot of podcasts, if you continue to call people to share what they wrote and it values the work they do outside a group and that's something you really want to build as a leader. Because often the over talker is just shooting from the hip. They like to be off the cuff, but they're not really processing deeply. And so I've said to people before, hey, if you like to talk, write down more, do more homework. Because if you wrote down a two paragraph answer, the amazing thing you can read a two paragraph answer in a minute or two. It doesn't have to be a ten minute story. So it values the work they're doing and encourages everyone. Work on your stuff, because the work you do, you'll get to share it but if you don't do the work, we're going to try to keep that at a minimum. And that's a healthy group expectation for everyone to have.

So you said that if there's a group leader who's good at cutting in in those moments to say something, that's actually something that I found I'm pretty good at. And so one of the ways that I do that, that if I see someone oversharing and I've had those in group, there tend to be pauses in what they're sharing and ask a question that kind of directs them back to where they started. And so, I mean, we could have an entire episode on me just basically coming up with scenarios on how that works. But if you're sharing about your week and there was this big moment, someone in your group is sharing about this big moment that happened in their week, and then they get into, well, also what happened at work and then what happened there and say, well, how do you see that connecting to what happened during the week that was really difficult for you. And really you're acting as this is the visual I get is you're the bumper lanes on a bowl, like on a bowling lane. You're just trying to kind of pepper that person back into the middle, back to where they were. And I think that if you ask questions, you're giving them basically the power to redirect. And so it's just a really subtle way. It could totally be used as a manipulative thing. Don't do that. And don't do that. If you're getting bored of someone and they're only sharing for three minutes, like, that's more on you than it is on them. But that just could be a really practical way to practice, I would say practice doing that, asking questions.

Yeah.

All right, so a lot of stuff to think about here, things to work on, especially for us personally, because if we're listening, we're likely highly engaged in the process. And we may be the very one that needs this episode more than anyone in our group. So, Ashley, let's end there today that if we feel that we ourselves are guilty of being the over talker, how can we stop doing it? And what are some steps we could take even this week with our group, if we're in group right now?

Yeah, I think we touched on this quite a bit in the episode. So I would just reiterate that being humble, apologizing for dominating some of the time would be the first step that maybe if that's you this week, even if you're the leader or the group member that you go back and say, hey, I was just reminded through this episode that, you know, I think I might be over sharing and I apologize for taking some of the time in the group that might have, you know, the other group members might have needed. And I'm going to work on that going forward. And then, you know, sticking to the material, reading what you wrote and asking for outside help to stay on track, if that's what's needed.

There's this cool thing in group called a commitment to change. And I think that it could be used for stuff like this as well. So if you know that and you've been feeling convicted, maybe you've had a one on one conversation with someone in group and they're like, hey, you're kind of dominating conversation. Make it a commitment to change. Because there are questions in there that will make you evaluate why it is that you're doing that. Like, what am I giving up? What am I gonna benefit if I make this change? Like there's some things in there that will help you think through it maybe at a deeper level than just I'm uncomfortable with silence or I just talk real good. It's like it's gonna help you get deeper into what's actually going on. And so there's also that built in accountability because when I'm in group, I'm calling and I'm asking about people's commitment to change. Like I'm reporting on how I'm doing on the faster scale, but then I'm also sharing, this is where I'm at on my commitment to change. And so it creates that built in accountability piece to making that change. So that should be a practical thing.

I try and I think some advice that I would give is to emphasize the role and the value of the group for one another and to speak about, say, hey, I'm the leader. Yeah, I've been through this before. I'm becoming familiar with the material. But I recognize I tend to over talk, then I share too much, I ask too many questions. But I want to know, we're all here to help one another and some of you are hearing things that we all need to be aware of and you need to be the one to jump in. And so I've said to my group, like after someone shares a commitment to change, I'm not going to be the first one to talk. I'd love though, if you see a question to ask, please speak up and say, hey, could I ask you a question about your commitment because that engages them on a new level and it actually creates a sense that we're in this together. And so I think just coming back to that vision to say, I'm in the group as much as any of you guys and you have as much right to ask questions of one another, ask permission to speak into what they've heard as I do. And so if I'm the only one doing it, there's actually a flaw in our group because you're just waiting for me. And so casting that vision that we're here for one another. And so when someone shares their faster scale and you see a big gap of something they didn't share, just say, hey, could I ask you a question? Because that's actually going to help all of us grow as a group and. And that's going to lead to better health for all of us. Yep.

Yeah. We value at Pure Desire, we value creating the most effective and the safest and most life changing experience in our groups as we can. And identifying tendencies like this, like over talking or oversharing, really identifying them can help ensure that we're going to have the best group experience that we can. Ashley, you've talked about it before, being the guardian of the guidelines. And so this is where group leaders can come in and cast that vision. And again, creating this safe and this effective group allows people to lean into their healing and really experience freedom, maybe even for the first time. So there's tons of value to be had. So, guys, Ashley, thanks for being with us. Thanks for talking about it.

Yeah, thanks for having me again.

And wherever you're at on your journey, Pure Desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to PureDesire.org and start your healing journey. You haven't subscribed to the podcast. Do it. It's free. Share it with your friends, your family, write a review. It helps others find the podcast. And lastly, never stop being health.