146 - Groups Launch Night

You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. Happy day, people. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you are listening to episode 146 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here, joining me as always, my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Mahalo, everybody. Thank you for having me.

Okay, quickly, shortly explain.

Mahalo means thank you in Hawaiian. So just working on my foreign languages.

Okay, well, I mean, some of us, mahalo and aloha.

I think those are the two I've got down.

Let's just get through these two things. Couple things. We're talking groups on today's episode. Couple quick reminders before we get into it. If you're not subscribed to the podcast, do it. Don't wait any longer. We are just waiting for you in the podcast store. Just do it. You can find us on all the major platforms and if you give us a review, it helps other people see. The podcast means a lot to us. Also, follow us on social media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagramuredesirepdmi and if you like to consume video content, we have some clips from these episodes up on as well. Just search Pure Desire Ministries. Okay, so today, which I made the mistake of saying tonight in the episode, we sat down with Rich Moore, our international men's groups coordinator, to talk about groups launch night.

Yeah, great to have Rich on and his wealth of experience. And I think what we're recognizing in this podcast is that a key to finishing well is starting well. In fact, just today, someone was asking me about our groups, and you know that most of them are nine, 10, nine or 10 months long. And they're like, do people finish that? And it caught me as an odd question because I was like, well, yeah, like, why wouldn't they? But for this person, just thinking, how do you get them through that commitment? And I think really a key is that we create a healthy expectation up front and people know this is a process, and I've got to commit to the process. So that's kind of what we look at tonight is how do you start well, how do you launch the group and have a night outside of the, you know, the normal group going through a lesson and the homework stuff where you just talk about what the group is going to be like and do that well so that the group that you do have will finish well. And I think Rich and you and I, we got to have a great discussion about that. And I think people will get a lot out of It.

Yeah. And I think that if you're not doing a group's launch night, this will help you see how simple it can be and then how effective it can also be as you are getting into groups. So enjoy the episode. Rich, welcome back.

Hey, glad to be here.

Yeah, we like having you on the podcast, man. It's funny. We record these at all different times, and so sometimes we forget how long. Like, you may be on one podcast, and then two podcasts later you're on it. But there's two months in between those recording dates. So it feels like we haven't had you on for a while, even though you were on the most. One of the more recent infamous group member episodes. But today we're talking groups again. But we're talking specifically about what we call group launch night. I don't even know if we officially call it that, but that's what we're talking about.

Just coined the phrase whether we used.

To call it pattern pending. Right?

Yeah.

Little R in the circle. Right. Copyright. So initially, this can be something that can be confused with actually the actual start of group the first night. I know for me, even before we got on the air today, I just was telling you guys that I've actually never done a launch night, but have done a little bit of a spiel up front of when we first start a group. And so we're gonna talk a little bit what this could look like, that first night of welcoming people into the possibility of starting groups. So let's just start with this, differentiate the two. Like, we've got the first night of group, and you've got some things that you're saying. And then there's this. The group launch night. How are the two different?

Me, personally, I just. I just. My group launch night, I'm actually pretty excited for this because I think, me personally, this is the most important night for the next two to five years, because this is the first night of the rest of your life in health. So, you know, if you don't get. You can't get to the last night of group if you don't get to the first night. So I think this is a very important part of group, and that first initial night is just going over the basic. The, you know, the important stuff. The mem. The MOU Covenant to contend.

So the memo of understanding.

Yep. Memo of understanding. The group guidelines. Best practices. Sharing your story. I think as a leader, that's the most important thing in that first night is to share your story. And. And I would challenge leaders to not just Share their story. But really set the tone by going pretty deep the first night. Cause that will mean a lot to the men and women in group.

Yeah. The way I distinguish between the two, I think of the launch night as inviting people into a process versus when you actually start your group. It's like working with people who have already committed to be in the process. So it's inviting people in versus working with people who are in. And I think it's so important because you really need that time to talk people through what they're committing to. That's one of the distinctives of a pure desire group. Unlike maybe a traditional 12 step group, a 12 step is much more drop in when you need to come check it out, see if it's a good fit, just find out where a meeting is, go attend one, go somewhere else. That we really don't have a drop in culture at all. Because we want people who are in the group to be committed to the process and to one another and to know what they've committed to. But that really is a lot to ask of someone. So to just say, hey, first night is Thursday. See you guys then. And often. And you may have guys coming that had a total misunderstanding of what they were getting into. One quick example, it's not exactly about a pure desire group, but it's groups we closely associate with at the Genesis process. I was doing a group's launch night for the Genesis process, and one of the guys who came, we went through the whole night. At the end, he literally said, I thought this was a Bible study on the book of Genesis. And I was interested. But now that I've heard what it's about, I'm even more interested.

There we go. Good.

But I just thought if we just assumed everyone was on the same page and everyone knows what to expect, like, boy, that first night would have been a real shocker for him. And obviously most people aren't going to be that extreme in what their misconceptions are. But I think everyone just has some different ideas of what it'll be like. And so in your group launch night, you're just trying to create the expectations, set the standards, and give people then that opportunity to respond. I'm in, I'm going for it. Or to say, you know what, it's great, but I'm not ready.

This makes me think too. It takes the pressure off of the people from the stage, maybe on Sunday, who are announcing this, or maybe it's the pastor who's making a push for pure desire groups in your Church, that this takes the pressure off from you having to give the whole sales pitch, that you can talk about it in general terms, that it's about sexual integrity and healing from betrayal and what it looks like to, you know, heal your marriage and understand healthy relationships so you can give the bullet points. But then what I'm hearing you guys say is this could be the night that really convinces people, like, come to hear more information about the groups. We'll go in a little bit more detail, we'll share some stories, that sort of thing. And so I think that I know for me, when you get up on stage in front of people, whether it's 100 people or a thousand or 10,000 people, there's like this pressure. Like, oh, if I just say it right, then everyone will come. But this, I feel like, could take pressure off where it's like, hey, little plug, this is an informational meeting just to get an idea and then jump in. Is that what you guys are saying?

Yeah. Well, and I think too, what helps in that process is the orientation piece of it.

Yeah.

You know, like, so if you use Conquer series, whatever that is, that, that first steps, when you get into seven pillars or Unraveled or Betrayal and beyond, they know at least what to expect. Maybe not all of it, but they've had enough information going in to say, okay, this is at least what I'm going to be working on. Do I want to take the next step?

Right. Like, oh, you mean I just showed up on launch night and I'm already devoted now for nine months? Like, I wasn't ready for that. Hold on a second.

And we have your signature right here.

That's right.

Yeah. So we've already started to, to touch on this a little bit, but let's just talk through some more reasons why having a group launch night, or if you call it an orientation or you call it come ask your questions night, I think what people call it in their own church or context is fine. But why is having a night like this or a gathering like this so valuable and important?

I mean, I think, and we've talked about this before to some level on the podcast, it gives people a shame free opportunity to just say, you know what, this isn't for me, and step back. I think I've heard you say that as well in conversations we have with church leaders. And it's okay to have this because if you come in and you're like, you know what? I'm not ready for this. Which, that's an okay place to be. Like, no, Shame on you. But if this is an area that you struggle in, here's what we're offering. And if you want to step into it, you can. So it. It's basically like you're not admitting you have faults. You're coming to get information. And also, we're not shaming you where you feel like. You feel free to just be like, you know what? I'm not ready for this. I can't step in at this moment.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then I think when we set the tone as a leader, that, you know, to let. Let them know that this first night, or I usually take about two weeks before you really get into the lesson. So there's no expectations for them. You know, I let them know. I always start by my story first.

Yeah.

And then I get just kind of the icebreaker and, you know, and I go deep with my story. I don't do the short version. I do the long version. So they understand the whole process.

Four hours later, they're like, I'm done.

Yeah. You know, but I think it's important how we frame it or sell it. If you say. But to be able to give them an option, say in. In that first meeting, too, is to give the option for them to share. And I always let them know, say, hey, you can share as much as you want, or you can share as little as you want. And if you're not ready.

Right.

But usually what happens is when we just open up our own story, everybody else is usually all in for the most part, and they're sharing up front, but it's really how we frame that first meeting, whether they're going to commit to the next nine, 10, 12 months.

Yeah. I think of the number of stories in Scripture where people's invitation was to come and see, to come to Jesus, Come and see the man who told me everything about my life. Come and see. Could this be the rabbi or the teacher we've been waiting for? Come and see. And that invitational feel of there's something important going on. Let's go check it out. And so I think on an orientation or a group launch night like this, it's always been my goal to have too many people there, meaning I hope it's larger than what one group would fit. Because I expect it's going to pare down a little bit that some people are going to say, you know, I'm not ready. It's not for me. It's not quite what I thought. I can't make the commitment. But the more that you invite people to come There may be some that are ready that otherwise wouldn't have initially signed on for the group. But when they hear the information, they maybe hear your testimony, it intrigues them, and they're able to process to a place of saying, yeah, I'm in. And some of this is just an awareness of people's differing personalities that some people can hear about an idea and in two minutes know if they're in or not.

Right.

And other people need time to process, to ask questions and to make the right kind of commitment. And so if we don't do something like this, we're basically making everyone be the same personality type that can make decisions quickly on a small amount of information. And I might be comfortable with that, but my wife would not be like, she would want to process and think about it and pray and ask questions, and that's great. So if you have a group launch night, you really allow people to explore, and then when they sign on to do it for all the right reasons and know what they're getting into. So I think just that, hey, we're having a night for, like, here's the way we would phrase it. Like, we're going to be launching some men's purity groups and really learning how to live in freedom for the long haul. And if you're interested what that would look like or if you would want to be a part of this group, we're having an orientation night. And no expectations, no strings attached. You're not signing up for the group. You're just coming to hear and learn if this might be the right fit for you. And. And then, you know, hopefully you have a great group there that from there you get down to your group size. And sometimes you may even find that you have more than one group of people ready to start, which is a great problem to have.

Yes.

But could help you see the need that's there and maybe work on a second or third group even.

Yeah. You know, that first night is so important. So there's a lot of things that could go really well. There's a lot of things that can go not so good. So when we talk about some of the pitfalls, major pitfalls that can happen in that first meeting.

Yeah, you already mentioned one of them, Rich. And I think that's expecting people to share their whole story. I do agree with you completely that as the leader, we've processed our story, we're comfortable with that, that we share our story. But then it's important to say, hey, you don't need to share anything more than you know your name and a sentence about why you're here. But if you'd like to share a little more. And often there's some time constraints. Depending how many people have come, you might say you've got three minutes at most. I think that's a huge pitfall of just expecting that everyone's going to be ready on that orientation night to open up the whole story. And some people will. So I think that's one just to really create an environment of whatever place you're at, we're okay with right now. I think another pitfall might be downplaying some of the group expectations, you know, trying to convince people to softening it. Yeah, well, it really won't be that hard. If you can't get your homework done, it's no good.

Nine months is long.

These requirements, we don't really follow them because what you're doing is creating that expectation that, oh, I can kind of have a half hearted commitment. I can be in and out. What we've said on this podcast so many times is like, set the bar high because that's what people will jump for. If you create the low bar so they'll join the group, you will constantly be trying to pull them along and convince them to do something, not realizing you're working against the very standard you created for them. So those are the two that came quickly to mind for me.

Yeah. I think a couple that come to mind for me are there's this like, again, this pressure that you feel you have to convince people. So you get like super rah rah about it and it's like you basically end up shaming people with your language. Like, if you're not willing to step in and do this now, you're never going to be free. And you're just like bashing and negative and negative and negative. I think in reality why you share your story like you were mentioning Rich is because you're showing the benefits of group. You're showing the positive side of health and what it looks like and what the work can give you. And so I think that going through details of what group's going to cover, sure. But not just like, hey, if you don't do this, your wife's going to leave you or your husband's going to keep acting like, whatever, don't, don't do that. Because I think that this is my thing. I don't think that it's our job to convince people this is the right thing. I think it's our job to share how it has impacted us Share what the expectations are of group and let those people make their decision.

Yeah, I always, I always come from it for a little bit more upfront. Like, not, I don't say abrasive, but on that end, as far as, like, you know, I'll let them know, hey, this next 10 months is going to be the most painful, the toughest time in your life, but it's going to be the most rewarding time in your life. And then what I do is through that, it's like I share out of my experience. Okay, this is what it took, what it took me to get to where I am today. You know, meetings with Ted constantly in the book, meeting after meeting after meeting. I mean, non stop work on your addiction. And it's not easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it. And they get a gold star at the end. But this is not.

I'm still waiting for that gold star. No. And I think that that passion that people usually have in that when they're trying to convince people is really from a good place. And so if you've done that before. I know I've done that before. Like, I'm trying to convince someone that healing is best for them. And it's kind of in my mind. It's in the same vein of what we say that you can't care more about someone's recovery than they do. It's the same thing. You can't care about them starting the journey more than they do. Like, you just have to say, this is what it is, and hope and pray and be there for when they're ready to do it.

And if you're honest up front saying, hey, it is gonna be rough. Yeah, but it's gonna be really hard. But you have six, seven men or women that are gonna be there every, every day that are gonna be part, essential part of the process. You're not doing this alone. So. And it's gonna be. Yeah, it's gonna be really rough, but you've got these people that are gonna carry you through.

Yeah, super.

Go ahead.

I should say another pitfall I was thinking of is not giving clear next steps about what to do if you're ready. And so there are a lot of different ways you can approach it, but I think you need to determine what do people need to do to decide they're in. So some churches I know maybe have a kind of form they have people fill out. For me, it was always just using the Memo of understanding in the workbooks. I would say when you have signed this form and returned it to me and purchased your materials. That's when you're in the group. And in our church we would buy the materials ahead of time and resell them so that no one would have the excuse of oh, it didn't come or I couldn't get online so I would have them right there. But you don't have to do that. You could send people to the website to get their materials. But I think you do want to make it clear to say, okay, as you decide whether you're in the group or not, when you know you're in this is what you do. Is it contact you? Is it contact the office? Is it sign a form? Is it whatever works within your system? It's okay if it's different. Just make sure there is a plan. Because if people leave, not sure, they may fall through the cracks just because they weren't, they were interested but they were waiting for someone to call them or they thought there would be a next step that would come later. And so you just want to be upfront with that so people know what to do when they're ready to say, I'm in and let's go for it.

Super good stuff so far, guys. We're going to take a quick break and talk about some information from this month's sponsor. All right, today's sponsor is Covenant Eyes. Covenant Eyes has been helping people overcome pornography's powerful grips for 20 years. And plus it's world class accountability software and it, it has insightful educational resources. They got great PDFs. I just, I enjoy their website. Their more recent videos have also been awesome ways to definitely diminish shame. And just last year Covenant Eyes released its new revolutionary screen accountability software and filtering solution. This uses powerful, really artificial intelligence technology. And honestly, it's kind of scary how awesome it is.

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I think the first. One of the first things we need to do and we've talked about this I don't know quite a bit on the podcast about the legal stuff. So it's very important on the MOU is to go through that and to come to contend the mandatory reporting. If we need to find out if men and women are on probation, we need to contact their probation officer if they can even be on campus. There's a lot of things we could talk about a whole episode on. So if you have questions you get a hold of me on that. But that is. That has to be done early because you just. If it's. And there's so many. I have the call frequently that a lot of times that does not get done early in group. Yeah, it doesn't get talked to. And what happens is we've had this conversation where groups will go. They'll skip the intro and all that stuff. They'll just go right into pillar one. So they. They lose a lot of that key stuff in the beginning that is not just there to be. To be a page filler but some of it to protect the church.

Yeah.

So yeah I think of at that launch night you really want to set the tone and talk about how it's not a performance group. We're not just here to check in on did you mess up this week or not. But we're really looking at the deeper things driving our behavior and that it's very comprehensive and that tone of both grace and truth, that there's incredible grace for whatever your behavior is. That's another thing you want to make sure you're clear about, that it doesn't matter whether your struggle is just lust in the mind or something extreme where you're acting out with other people, wherever you're at. We all need the same healing and the same recovery. And so that's the grace of. It doesn't matter where your behavior is taking you. It matters that you're here, you're going to be loved and cared for in this process, and there's hope. So I think that tone of grace, but still of truth to say, we're going to deal honestly with what's going on in our lives. We're not going to beat around the bushes. We're not going to sugarcoat things. We want to be very honest about what's gone in our past and our present and. And offering that challenge of if you're ready to face those things, we're not going to ignore those things. So if you're not ready to be honest. And again, back to what Rich said earlier, like, we're not going to force things out of you. We're not. You know, that's the gray side. But there is an expectation we're here to get at the truth, and we really can't recover if we're wanting to stay in hiding and not face the truth. So I think that tone is really important. And then a really practical thing that I think gets missed a lot is, to me, it's important that you determine the time the group is going to be meeting at as the leader, because if you just open it up, say, well, when would this group work for you guys to meet? Or when would you ladies all be free? It's like, man, good luck with that. Nightmare is everybody's schedules. And, well, that's kind of our soccer night, or we like to do a family game. You just get into everybody's schedules. And I think the best way is for the leader to say, here's the time that works for me, when the group will be meeting and if it's a priority and you can rearrange your schedule, that's when it'll be. Now, I think there are some cases where a leader may have a couple of options, and I think that's okay, too, to say it's going to be one of these two days, what works best, and maybe land on one. But just recognize that the more you open it up, the more you're going to disappoint someone who's like, well, my only time was Saturday and they didn't pick Saturday, so they must not want me in the group. And it's just easier if, as the leader you can say this is when the group meets and I hope you'll be able to make that time and then if not, help them find other options of maybe an online group or if there are other groups at your church. But that's just a real practical one to already have a plan of when are we meeting and where and then let people decide if they can do it.

Yeah. The only other thing I would add is we've already talked about it. I think sharing, sharing your story or having someone share their story is essential to that night. Maybe even having multiple people. I remember when we had our first, like, group launch night. I guess we did have a group launch. Hey guys, I had one.

Way to go.

I am a seasoned veteran. You. And I want to say it was Dave came down and shared you guys stories. And I remember. Nah, it wasn't a launch night. See now it was like week three of the Conquer series. I had you guys come down and you guys were sharing, but kind of a semi launch. Yeah, like a mid. A mid launch night. But I remember you guys both shared your stories and your stories are similar in some ways, but different in some ways. And I remember guys walking. I remember hearing guys who had come that night saying, oh, I really connected with Dave, or I really connected with Rich.

Dave nailed that one.

Like, yeah, I mean, I remember that. It was, bro, it was heavy. Like, I walked out carrying his baggage. There was a lot. But I just remember that being so powerful. Because what that does is that not only gives a glimpse of like, hey, redemption and growth and, and healing as possible, but also you're not alone in the depth of your struggle and how this can impact and really destroy your life. And so it was almost like this sober reminder of this is what life could be if it's not now. But then also, look, this is what you can have. And so I think that sharing your story is essential.

Yeah. And we've kind of mentioned some of these pieces, but if I could just say that is kind of a general order for the night that I've seen most frequently is as people get there, either you're sharing your story or someone shares their story, you maybe open it up a little bit for everyone to introduce themselves. And then you walk through the memo of understanding. You walk through the group guidelines, you walk through the covenant to contend. Because those three core documents really spell out the expectations for you. So if you go through those and it can be a little tedious and you can decide for yourself if you want to summarize or read them word for word or. But if you make sure you're following those documents, you won't miss anything. And then very often I will also go through a faster scale because that is one of the things that I can give to someone that says, hey, at our first week, we're going to take our first stab at going through the faster scale. And so here's an example of how that works. And I think another reason for using the faster scale, even that orientation night is because it does quickly give someone a snapshot of how this group is going to be different than anything they've ever done. Yeah, it's not going to be just another Bible study. It's not just a book study. It's not just come and share, did you relapse or not? But when you're starting to talk through the emotional scale and why were you doing what you didn't want to do? What was your double bind? Like that can be really, really eye opening and I think engage people. So those are the most typical things I will walk through. And then at the end just saying, what questions do you have? Concerns, frustration and just having some open dialogue. And I find generally it can take about two hours if you have 7, 8, 9, 10 people there. So don't think, oh, it's just an orientation, 30 minutes and we'll be done. You want to take some time and go through all those things. So I usually plan about the full two hours and find that that works about right.

Yeah, that's good.

So back to me is groups launch night. Is this a one time thing we do or should we be doing a launch night every time we start new groups?

I mean, hope it's not a one time thing.

Right.

Just this.

If you can't show up, maybe another church in 20 years will do it. Come back when you're.

Yeah, yeah. With almost 6,000 men and women looking for groups, going to the website looking for groups a month, we would hope that churches are launching these quarterly, you know, or more. We do have some churches at least quarterly is good.

Yeah, right.

We have a lot of churches that are just, they just launch them when they get enough people. Yeah. But yeah, we hope that they're continue, you know, continue to build groups. And not only that, what I, what I do. So the launch night, I actually do like a relaunch night about five, six months into Group. So I basically will basically go over the first night again as just kind of a, a touch base and then have them share their story again. But. But add a little bit to where they're at now. So I kind of do it twice in the course of the group.

Yeah, I mean I echo that. It makes sense to do it and figure out the flow of your church and the rhythm of the schedule that you guys keep there and make sure that this is something that is prioritized in the flow of that schedule.

Yeah. What I would say is that every person joining a group needs to have been to a launch night or an orientation. So whatever that means. And that may mean that you or another one of your leaders meets the them for coffee and does a one on one. I did that a number of times because as my approach was with groups that if someone's ready to join a group, I'm going to work really hard to get them into a group even if it's started. But typically if a group is early on in the process, they're open to adding someone. Now some of the women's support and recovery groups may be different. So this is different church to church, but for men. I just found when I would say to men in my groups like hey, we got a guy, that his wife just caught him in the middle of this stuff and he really needs a group. Would you be open to someone joining us? And they say yes. Even then I don't have that guy come to group until I've met with him and gone through the faster scale the group guidelines, commitment to change. Because I want them having made those same decisions about why am I doing this and not have the group dragging them along because they never really understood the expectations in the first place. So whether it's one on one or quarterly, I think the standard needs to be anyone joining a group has had the orientation because then they're going to be a better group member no matter what.

Yeah, agreed.

Yeah. And I also think to add to that, you know, we have so many groups out there in the churches, but when somebody in the church needs a group, there's just not an opening in that. So I've been talking with leaders. Hey, if you're doing an orientation and groups fill and you have guys, men or women, that just can't get plugged in, I let them know that we have our online groups.

Right.

So we actually have men and women in online groups that wanted to go to their church, but those groups were full.

Yeah.

And they went through the, the orientation or that first steps. But now, because there's just, you know, not enough bandwidth for them. So now we have them in an online group. So that's back up.

That's a good reminder.

All right, so as we close up here, any final encouragements when it comes to group launch nights?

Okay, so some vulnerability here. Okay. When. And I have had some. Some people come to groups and then decide, this isn't for me. I'm not ready for it. And for me. And this is. I feel like I've done enough inner work that I can tell you this is actually what's happening. I feel. I feel disappointed or feel like somehow I have messed it up. And so what I'll do is to people, whether it's the group or just someone who's sitting next to me, just be like, ah, they're not ready yet. And I just. I basically shame them or I put them down because they're not. They're not willing to commit. And really what I'm doing is that attitude, I think, is something we have to avoid. We have to. If someone walks out of group launch night and does not come to group, you need to make sure that whatever you say, whatever you do is encouraging to that person. And basically what you're doing is you're positioning yourself for when that person does get to a place where they're ready to jump into group, you're still in that place or that posture toward them that they know you're a safe person. I can come and talk to you. Hey, I saw you at group launch night. You shared your story. You made sure I knew it's okay to start my journey when I'm ready, I'm ready. Can we do this? So just be really careful. The language that you use, the culture you create in that night, during that night, because you can end up, you know, really cutting it off and someone never coming back. Even though they might know that they need healing, that they just don't feel like it's a safe place to be.

Yeah, I was just going to echo that. And I think about a phrase we've used in church for a long time now that says that the way you reach them is how you keep them. That if our outreach efforts need to be consistent with the rest of our church culture, because if, you know, if we reach someone at this huge, you know, Lollapalooza Funday, and then they come to our church service, and it's just very plain and quiet. So they'd be like, well, I'm not even interested in this group.

I Came to your trunk or treat. You don't have candy.

I don't understand.

But what I'm pointing out is the tone you set needs to be consistent with the groups that you have. And that's where I think I'd rather have someone say no and not come than have convinced them to try group. And then they come and they're a bad group member. And if you've led groups for any amount of time, I know you would agree, because it's like a difficult group member that isn't committed or isn't doing their homework or doesn't open up or it doesn't really seem ready like the rest of the group. It just. It becomes a burden to everyone. And you. And you think, ugh, why are you even here? Well, better for them to make that decision up front than to be that pain in the neck for, you know, a couple of months while you try to get them up to speed. And so you do it in love, just like you said. But it's having the courage to just say, you may not be ready, and this may not be a good fit for you. And if that's okay, just admit that to yourself and to me and don't sign up. Yeah. The other thing I was going to mention, final encouragement, would just be if you feel a little intimidated by this, it's a great opportunity to bring in an outside voice. You know, your regional group advisor is someone I know. If they're close enough, they'd probably come and share their testimony and talk about groups a little bit or. I know when I was a pastor, I got invited to a couple of other churches for their orientation nights because I would just talk about our groups and what we had done.

You were the porn pastor is what they called you.

That's right. I got to be the guy. But it can kind of take the weight off of your shoulders, especially if this is maybe the first groups that you guys have launched to bring in an outside, experienced voice. Just can help you feel like you take a deep breath and just go through some of the documents because it's all spelled out in front of you, but let someone else have that involvement. Really bolster the night and what people hear. So look for those opportunities and at Pure Desire. We can probably help you find someone if you need a voice to add to your group launch night.

Yeah. The only thing I would add is we have a lot of men and women who have been through the legal system who are on probation. They know they need help. So the fact that they're on Probation, they've already been charged or whatever. So now they can come to a group. So they're already nervous about walking in the door. So, you know, with my story, it's a unique story. Not everybody has my story. So I can immediately connect with those guys when they walk in the door. When I share my story now, even though I could connect with them, they don't always initially will respond. So it's usually a week or two later sometimes for those guys because they're worried about and just like I was, it's like, well, if people really knew me, they wouldn't like me. So how. And then it's foreign for them to be in a group where they're going to share some of this stuff. So I would just encourage those leaders, when you have people with legal issues, just accept them for who they are, you know, and love on them just like the next guy or gal in group because they're there because they want help and they don't have a safe place to go. And this could be and most likely will be the safest place for them during that week to go.

Yep, we actually have an episode that you did with us on the legal issues, so we'll make sure to put that in the show notes as well. How we shape, like our communication, the language that we use when encouraging people to push into recovery is super important as we've even talked about tonight or as we even talked about in this episode. And just as important is the consistency of that communication or having these group launch nights. So when launching groups, we have to keep in mind that everyone has levels of brokenness in their sexuality and we all need healing. And so that is on a spectrum. Be aware of that as you walk into it. And so how we handle those launch nights can really help people either feel like healing is something they can step into or push them away. So, Rich, thanks for your expertise, man, you being here. Appreciate it. Wherever you're at on your journey, church leader or not, Pure Desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to PureDesire.org and start your healing journey. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do it. It's free. We'll have Rich send you a free copy of his book. Share it with your friends and family. Write a review. I'm just kidding. Rich just looked at me. Okay, maybe that won't happen. Bad joke. Other. Anyway, write a review, help others find the podcast. And lastly, never stop being healthy.