152 - Leading Unraveled Groups

You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast. Your safe place to find hope, healing and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal and relationship issues. Happy June to you, listener. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you are listening to episode 152, yes, 152 episodes of the Pure Desire podcast Here joining me as always is my co host for, I think about 151 of those episodes, Nick Stumbo.

It is high, it is deep, it is gone. A home run.

I, I mean, like, as a baseball fan, I'm cool with that, but can you just explain a little bit for people?

Today's podcast is a home run, Charlie, as is every podcast, except maybe that one that I had to miss.

Okay, that's fair. That's fair.

Plus, I, I really, I hope that baseball is back by the time this episode airs because right now as we're recording it, it should be like the opening week of baseball. And I'm grieving that there's just nothing out there right now.

I'm just shaking my head and trying not to cry because it's like the worst. Okay, so we do have a really good episode for you, and you're gonna love what Ashley has to say. She's so good at this stuff. But a couple quick things. Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't. We're on all the major platforms. Spotify, Stitcher, itunes, Google Play. I almost didn't even remember because I'm just an iPhone user. But if you give us a review, it'll help other people find the podcast. It means a lot to us. Also, follow us on social mediauredesirepdmi on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. You can also search us on YouTube, PureDesireMinistries. And then the third thing that we're really excited about, and we're excited about really being able to gather together, Lord willing, in September to put on our first ever Pure Desire Summit, 9-11-12 at Harvest Christian Church in Troutdale, Oregon. And this is our first one. So let's talk about it just a little bit. Like, let's let people know what they're in for.

Yeah, I'm excited. I mean, it's an opportunity just to gather everyone together. That's a Pure Desire fan, friend, family that just says, man, this is part of what God's done in my life. And I want to gather with those that have been on this journey as well. And, you know, we'll have all of our staff there. Most of them are going to get to share at some point in a session or a breakout. We're bringing in Kurt Thompson, the author of the Anatomy of Shame, and just incredible thoughts on what shame does in us. I think people are really, really going to enjoy hearing from him. So it's for men, it's for women, it's for couples, it's for groups like whoever you want to come with, come with, because it's. It's meant to be just for anyone that is a part of what's happening at Pure Desire and wants to see how God can continue to work in and through all of us. Yeah.

And honestly, if you like the podcast, you're going to like this event. Definitely. I will be emceeing it, so I'm sure I'll come up with some good jokes, especially if we are actually able to gather together in person. It'd be so nice.

And can we say it will be the site of the first ever live podcast edition. So you decided one of the episodes that knocked the cat out of the bag.

Yeah. So one of our sessions will be a live podcast, Pure Desire podcast that we are excited for. I would love to do all of them live, honestly, but. All right, let's get to the episode. Today we sat down with over a social distancing Zoom call, Ashley Jamison, who's our international women's groups coordinator and one of the contributors to our resource Unraveled. And we talked about leading unraveled groups.

Yeah. And Unraveled and this podcast are really an ongoing statement by our ministry to say sexual brokenness is not just a man's problem. Sexual recovery is not just something men need. That. That women are also created by God as sexual beings. And there's patterns of brokenness in their life. And whether that's more emotional or relational or visual or physical, like, whatever it is, we want to create a healthy, safe group structure. And so having leaders prepared for that is what we're all about. And I think Ashley just gives really great solid wisdom today on what does it look like to lead these groups well, but at the same time not be intimidated by, well, I'm the leader and what does that mean? So I hope it empowers and equips women to say, man, I can do this. I'm ready to go. Let's help women find their healing.

Yeah. And like I always say, and I mean it, this one's a good one. Enjoy. Ashley Jameson, thank you for gracing us again with your presence via Zoom Call.

Thank you for having me.

The viewers, if they do see any portion of this, and for listeners who aren't watching this, we Have a beautiful. Looks like granite countertop behind you. Fresh fruit. So you're just, you're set, you're ready to go.

Backsplash.

That's right.

John did all this hard work. Shout out to John.

Shout out John. That's great. Okay, so we have been working to get this episode recorded and up for some time now. And we're excited to really press in and talk leading unraveled groups. A year ago we released Unraveled and so now that we kind of have groups under our belt a little bit and Ashley, you have led groups. We're going to just talk really what it looks like to lead these groups. So let's just jump in, let's get going.

Yeah, yeah. So Ashley, some of our listeners might be new to that word unraveled in the workbook. So for anyone that doesn't know, fill us in a little bit. What is unraveled? What's the workbook? Who's it for? What are these groups all about?

Yeah, so the book is really designed for a woman who struggles in any way, shape or form with love, sex or relationships. And so that could, that could range from fantasy, masturbation, porn, affairs or even failed relationships, or even avoidance of relationships or sex. So you could have a woman come in who doesn't want a relationship, fears it doesn't enjoy sexual intimacy with her spouse, and that woman could also go through the workbook. So really in the whole realm of love, sex and relationship, anything at all that just needs to be strengthened, healed, refined, a woman could go through and start digging into that.

So it sounds like if it's a woman who is alive and aware that she has problems, the group might be for her.

I've actually never in my life met a woman that has not ever had a struggle in love, sex or relationships. So we like for people to self identify that they should come into group.

Sure, of course. Yes, of course.

Everyone can. And we, now that it's been running for a year, have several betrayal and beyond leaders who they finish up and the women are self aware, they have a good handle on their relationship with their addict spouse and they're wanting more. So they're coming into unraveled and they may tweak some of the lessons or pages a little bit that don't apply, but they're still getting so much about themselves just as a woman.

So I mean, that leads right into our next question. And that is, is there a difference in leading betrayal and beyond groups and leading unraveled groups, or do we encourage people to be in Both.

I personally like both, but I like with any of the other podcasts, you want to start where it hurts the most. So if you have a troubled relationship, that's where you want to start. You know, if your spouse is an addict, you definitely want to start in Betrayal and Beyond and get a handle on that before you start working on yourself. But as far as leading it goes, if you have experience leading Betrayal and Beyond with women who are traumatized and hurting and they're in an addict relationship, then you're going to be an excellent candidate to leave Unraveled. It's the same concept we laid out really nicely in a book, and we gave you guidelines and we gave you coaching, and if you stick to the package, then it's pretty easy. Have a lot of grace. For women that are coming in, whether it's betrayed or unraveled, because you're either coming in hurt or you're coming in because your life has gotten to the point where you're ready to dig in and do this hard work. And so really, the leadership qualities are the same, whether it's Betrayal and Beyond or Unraveled.

Yeah. When I think of, like, all of our pure desire groups, the main thing we're looking for in a leader is not professionalism or expertise. We're really looking for people that have done some of their own work and this is part of their life story. So if you've led Betrayal and Beyond because you were a betrayed spouse and then you want other women to find healing, that's what qualified you. And I think in a similar way with Unraveled or our men's groups, that if you've walked that road as a woman through some sexual brokenness or failed relationships, and you've started to find healing and you want other women to find that as well, that's going to be what qualifies you for the group. And that doesn't mean to say you have to have your stuff perfected and all figured out. You may be in the midst of some of your own journey, but if God's doing a work in you, there comes a point for all of us. I think we start to look and go, man, this is so good, and what God's doing in my life is so good, that's exactly the moment you want to start to say, so how could I help others? So if you're a woman that that's where you're at, Unraveled could be a great group for you to jump in and help lead others through the process.

And it's practically Very similar too. I mean, the same length of group, nine to 10 months, depending on how quickly you get through lessons. And you also have instead of a journal like we do with Betrayal and Beyond, there's a weekly tools which honestly, that is the reason why I wish I could go through Unraveled is just for the weekly tools because I flipped through that thing and I'm like, oh my gosh, I could be so much better and healthier and smarter and stronger and whatever. But practically from that stance as well, it's the same, like, same number of people that we push into all the same group guidelines, Covenant contend, all that stuff as well. So practically it looks very similar to BNB as well as the structure.

Yeah, yeah, you might get some. I mean, I know being the groups coordinator for women, I get a lot of calls on, well, this is new. How do we lead it? And so like you're saying if you've led one of the other groups, it's going to be very similar where you spend the first 40 minutes going through your work, your weekly tool answers, and then the next hour going through the workbook answers and then using that last 20 minutes to talk about commitments for the week, signing calls, praying very. It's very similar in that way and structured. And so just sticking to that 40, 20, 40, 60, 20 format is going to get you through the workbook and then in the, in the weekly tools, before a lesson has a major tool or anything like that, we might assign a podcast. And so it will have a suggested podcast at the beginning of that lesson page. And so as a leader, you just want to make sure your group members see that and also listen to that podcast during the week.

Yeah. So Ashley, if a woman is stepping into leading an unraveled group, what are we hoping for the group members to experience as they go through the group? So what's that group leader's focus as she pours into other women?

Well, her focus, and this is where I think when we talk about some pitfalls with leaders, her focus should be creating the environment for the women to do the self discovery work. And so just keep nice, safe environment. But what every leader ends up getting out of it, that runs a group from beginning to end. I've never met a leader that says otherwise. About halfway through, you see the women just starting like the veils coming off their eyes where they start recognizing patterns in their relationships. Or maybe they had an affair and they recognized the unhealthy behaviors or fantasy that actually led up to that. And it didn't just happen all of a sudden. And so what we're doing for the women is just helping them understand why they do what they do, seeing the patterns in it and a lot of times seeing that the unhealth started way, way, way back here and then slowly snowballed or eroded until something shook really bad and made them come into group. And so that's what you want. I mean, we're never going to be perfect. We say that obviously if you came in because of an addiction or affair, we want that to stop. Like that's primary goal number one. But outside of that, we're never going to just live flawlessly and perfectly. And so the main goal is that we have awareness and we understand ourselves and we know what to do if we start slipping again.

Yeah. I just think of so many leaders I've had conversations with. It's just the focus should be facilitating a place where vulnerability can take place. And that's usually done by you, the leader, starting and going first and saying this is what it looks like to be real and to share what's actually going on.

Right. Yep.

Yeah. And allowing for people, for women to. For that self discovery, for them to come to their own answers and not telling people what to do or fixing them.

Right.

But allowing them to take that process because that's really where lasting change happens, when we come to our own answers because we see it for ourselves.

Yeah. So we've kind of a little bit identified some of the things, but again, you know, and we've, we've had this where the same qualifications for anyone who's leading a peer desire group are the same across the board. But let's rehash those again a little bit just for someone who maybe this is the first episode they're listening to or they're interested in leading an unravel group. What are the qualifications for a woman who wants to lead one of these groups?

Well, ideally, in a perfect world, we love somebody who's been through a group themselves before. So that would be the place to start. If, if you're wanting to be a leader of other women, we suggest you go through a group first. And we have online groups for that. That's a perfect place to start because you're going to get a really qualified, experienced leader who's been through personally these things and has the training to lead groups using the guidelines. And so you'll just naturally learn what it looks like to lead a group by being in a group. That's probably the best way to start. And then from there you can lead your own group. And if you're in a church where online group is not an option for you, maybe you can, you can't do an online group, or you have a group of women in your church that are wanting to go through the group and they have nobody to lead it, then you always can just start the group. And you would just remind the ladies that I'm not the leader, I'm not the counselor, the teacher. We're just going to get together as a group of women and we're going to go through this resource together and we're going to rely on pure desire for their help and their resources and podcasts. And you're just going to explore going through the material together. And that's another way that women start the group as well.

Yeah. Having someone that's just willing to say, I'll facilitate, I'll make sure we get together, remind us what time we meet. But when we come together, we're kind of all going through this together. So that actually can create really healthy ownership of the group, which I find creates really good outcomes. So, Ashley, does someone need to be married to be an unraveled group leader?

No, Unraveled is designed for married, unmarried, even college age women can go through it if they're struggling. So any woman, it's not focused on a spouse. It's also not primarily focused on a single. It's just focused on the woman regardless of what her relationship is currently. So I lead an unraveled group. We have two more weeks left where it's that bittersweet time where we're finishing but proud of ourselves for sticking through it. And I have married, I have single, I have a whole wide range of women in my group and they're all loving it and getting a lot out of it.

That's awesome.

That's cool.

So practically, what does the leader need as far as material when they're leading an unravel group?

The leader will need this podcast. So, yeah, we don't have a leader's guide out for it yet, but the leader just needs the workbook and the weekly tools, just like the women do. As we said several times, you're going to be going through this group with your ladies. I do my homework every week. I do my weekly tools every week. And so you're just going to be staying a little bit ahead of your ladies if you haven't done the book before. And going through the workbook and going through the weekly tools, it's all in a nice package. And that's exactly what you need. We have a couple podcasts on leading online groups. Obviously this one we have ones on how to handle group members or how to dismiss a group member. A lot of podcasts, I feel like, are probably our most valuable teaching tool. And then we also have our regional group advisors that we will plug leaders with. And so they'll always have somebody they can reach out to for support. They can schedule a call with the regional group leader to talk about, okay, I'm going to start my group. What should I do first? Group, what is an. What does the first group look like? How did you do it? They can just have a chance to talk to somebody about that. And then our regional group advisors schedule quarterly or semi annual meetings with their leaders so they can connect with other leaders and find out what's working and what's not working and just have that connection.

Yeah, we want to be here to be a resource to women. And a word on the weekly tools, because sometimes we'll hear from groups, and I know Ashley would echo this, that they just want to use the workbook. They don't want to get two books. They want to keep the cost down. The weekly tools in the workbook are kind of like the idea of your warmup and your cool down in addition to doing a workout. And so, for example, if you're a runner, you just jump right into the run, but you haven't warmed up or done a little stretching or at the end, you don't do some of that, you're actually not going to get as much out of the workout because you've not prepared your body for it and.

You'Re going to be hurting so bad the next day.

In a similar way, those weekly tools create some rhythm, create some healthy ways of beginning to engage. And what's going on week to week for me, what's going on in my thought patterns. And it's not just an optional bonus for the group. It really is an essential part of the healing process. So that's why we sell it as a kit. There's a little bit of a discount when you buy both books together because the tools facilitate then I think better conversation that will happen in the lessons each week.

Yeah, and you guys are sports guys, so that's like a great metaphor. I worked in the medical field before Pure desire. And so I always tell the ladies, it'd be like going to the doctor and getting a full workup and diagnosis and he's telling you everything that you know, all your problems are coming from this area. But then you choose to not do the treatment plan or take the medication. And I just like the weekly tools is what takes what you've learned from the workbook and then put speed to it. You can start moving forward.

That's a. I like that. That's a really good illustration. Nicely done.

I've heard my physical therapist say, he's like, well, you can either come to me for four weeks and do a lot of work at home on your own, or you can do no work on your own and come to me for like, six months. So it's your choice, like, do you want to get better or do you want to just keep coming to see me?

That's good.

Yep. You get what you put in. And I remind my women of that all the time. And they are reaping the benefits of their hard work right now.

Yeah.

I think another quick thing, too to add to this question is just the group guidelines. Make sure that you're revisiting that often and listening to podcasts, continuing your learning and your growth in the area that you need healing in, because that's going to go a long way as you lead group.

And there's a really thorough sheet of the group guidelines on our free tools on the website. I think that if a leader could print that off, it's. It's a really nice resource just to put in your book. And like you're saying, remind your members of. I know with my ladies that call church leaders and they ask, you know, how do I handle this difficult situation? Preventative is the best. Being proactive is the best. And so if I start to see anything, get a little off in my group, then I'll just take the next group to go over those group guidelines again and remind the whole group. And that's prevented me from having to have any really serious discussions with anybody or ask anybody to leave. It just keeps everybody on track, including the leader, because we get off track, too.

That's good. Yeah. So, Ashley, if men are listening, and hopefully they are, and if they're the husband, the boyfriend, the fiance of a woman who's going to lead an unraveled group, how can they help support or be a part of that process with her?

Well, like my husband, right now it's freezing cold out and snow and wind, and he has our kids out at the soccer field, so I can do my meeting right now, and he does that a lot if I'm home. So John. And take your kids. Shout out for John. Yeah, but just help. I mean, if you have kids, help give her the space to be able to focus because even though she may have already gone through this group or she's leading it, your spouse or girlfriend can get a lot out of this. And. And I love to give John that space when he's leading his seven pillars groups, because I know the more he's into it, the healthier he's going to be, which benefits all of us. And so just helping to create that space. And then if you have somebody in unravel, then they likely have a recovery action plan. And so the way that you respond, if your spouse or girlfriend has some kind of relapse and needs to share, you may need to be in a group. You may need to be in a group to go alongside your spouse that's leading Unraveled as well, so that you guys can both be on the same page. You know how to handle relapses. Yeah. So just, I guess, give that space and know that stuff comes up. So Grace is always appreciated, too, because leading a group of women through unraveled or Betrayal and beyond is a heavy commitment. And a lot of times hearing what your women are going through can be kind of hard. So just be aware of that.

Yeah. You know, I think of for my wife, and she hasn't led an unraveled group yet, but a number of betrayal and beyond groups. And I think there's a similar response for husbands and spouses in that situation that anytime she said, hey, I'm thinking of leading another group, I find I want to respond very positively to it because I know that it's. It's going to be good for her. Like, she's going to learn more about herself, she's going to be challenged, she's going to grow. She's going to have really good insights from other women that will help her and that will help our marriage. And so in the end, every time my wife leads, our marriage grows because she grows. And I think Unraveled is the same that if your spouse or fiance is saying, hey, I'd like to take time each week and lead this group, be all in on it, because it's really going to benefit her and your marriage or your relationship. And so the more you can support that, really, in the end, it's good for you, too.

Yeah, totally agree.

So, I mean, there probably could be tons. I mean, we've talked about this a lot on the podcast, but best practices for leaders. What would you say for a lady who's wanting to walk into Leading Unraveled, what are some best practices for her as she steps into that?

And again, we have that on our website. It's a great reference because as a leader, you want to make sure that the stricter you stick to the guidelines and the things that are recommended for the group, the better your group's going to turn out. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. A lot of times they'll have leaders say, well, can we add this? Or I have this other resource or this other thing that they want to add. And my encouragement is to just try the group as it is, the package as it is, because it's already a lot of work. It's emotional. So just stick with the workbook in the journal or the workbook in the weekly tools. Stick with your kit and work through it and allow the women to just focus on that one resource. And then the normal stuff. Start and end on time and respect confidentiality. Make sure that you have a quiet place where people aren't running all over while your group's going on. You know, make sure that the women aren't giving advice to each other and oversharing and talking over each other. Just very basic group guidelines that apply to all of our groups. If you apply them to unraveled, you'll have a really successful group.

Yeah, yeah. What comes to mind for me is that encouragement of don't be afraid as the leader, the group facilitator, to set that high bar of expectation on calling women to be committed, to be all in. Because it really makes such a huge difference on the kind of group you have that if. If you, in an attempt to be really inclusive, say, oh, you know, just come try it out and, you know, make it when you can. The kind of group you'll have in the experience for all the ladies won't be nearly as positive. Now, if you set that high bar of expectation, you. You may end up with a few less people. But I've always found what you're going to have is a better experience for those who are in it. So don't be afraid to set that high bar, even if it means a few women say, I'm not ready yet.

Yeah, absolutely. I had to learn that the hard way. And definitely in my groups after I started implementing the guidelines. And even. Even if you do it from your home, I mean, running a group, sometimes from your home, on the couch with coffees and jammies, yoga pants, is. I love that. I love that experience as well. But even in that setting, we start, we end on time, and we respect all the guidelines, and then we can chat before and after.

I've never had that experience before leaving a group in my yoga pants drinking coffee. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. Sorry for the visual, everyone. But I think another thing too for me, and this is I feel like every time we talk about leading groups, I feel like I have to say this, that remember, as the leader, you are not the person who's bringing the healing for these people. You are helping facilitate or being really the bumpers, if you will, on the lane that they have to walk. They have to do the work, trust the material and trust the process that they're going to walk. Your job is to facilitate and be there to create that culture for them to get healthy. It is not your responsibility to get these people healthy.

Yeah, yeah. So, Ashley, as Trevor mentioned, we've had unraveled out for about a year now. And that means we've learned some things, we've seen some things. What are in your experience of leading unraveled and going through the workbook? What are some pitfalls that you would really encourage leaders to avoid as they go through Unraveled?

My number one is advice is just giving too much advice. Because as an experienced leader or somebody who's been through a lot of pure desire resources, it can be tempting to want to give them information in their struggle right now that's coming down the road that things are really laid out in a way for women to unravel their issues. So even for me, I have to remind myself that I need to tell group leaders or new women to group that are wanting to ask a ton of questions that you are doing the thing you need to do to answer this question and it's being in group and just trust the process and take things one step at a time and those answers will start to come. But if we try to do everything at once, we're not going to do anything really well. So just allow the resources to guide the women through. And then just the other thing would be keeping a really tight rein on those, on those guidelines with texting and calls and sharing and advice giving. And I just think that reminding the ladies of the group guidelines often is the best way to do that.

Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean, taking responsibility for stuff that isn't yours is a huge pitfall. And then, you know, I think of not resourcing yourself with what you need, like, and we'll talk about this in the next question. But the idea though, that there's a lot out there to help you be a leader, a huge pitfall is to just assume that you got it and don't continue your Growth and your education as you grow as an individual and then also as a leader, I think that you'll find yourself practicing some unhealthy habits and slipping back into some negative behaviors, both individually and as a leader.

Yeah, I think just to combine what both of you said, that's the pitfall I see, really, in all of our groups is that we start to feel like we've got to be the expert. We've got to have all the answers. We've got to be able to fix it. And if something comes up in our group that we don't know how to handle, really, we've got to remember that's okay. Like, reach out for help, Direct someone to a counselor. Be okay with saying, I don't know, but I would really like to support you through this process. Could we ask someone else, you know, could we go to Pure Desire and ask that question? Could we talk to our pastor? Could we go to a counselor? Because the more we put ourselves in that expert role, the other thing that happens is we think we're also the role model that, like, my way of being healthy has to be what everybody follows, and then I can get into that performance mode. I try to act better than I am, and as soon as I do that, my leadership actually goes down, not up. So I think we have to remember I'm not the expert. I'm processing my story, and I've got issues and problems, too. And when stuff comes up that's out of my league or out of what I'm comfortable handling, say so and connect the group to resources that really can help you.

Yeah, yeah. And even, I mean, even though I work for Pure desire and help write unraveled all these things, you know, that you feel like you know the answers to. Sometimes I just tell the women when they ask me a question the night before group, saying, I don't understand this or I can't think of things, sometimes my best answer is, just wait till group. Because when you start hearing everybody else's answers, you're probably going to start thinking of things for yourself. And every single time that happens, where I'll just say, just come to group, leave that one blank. And then hearing other people share, which is a huge part of why group is so important, gives them the answers they need for themselves.

Yeah. So let's say that a leader knows they're not the expert, knows they need to grow and develop more. What resources do we have available for women who want to grow as a leader in the unravel groups?

Well, the RGAs are a really big resource because when you work with other leaders who are doing the same thing, and some of them have been doing it a lot longer, just hearing what works and what doesn't work from them is great. All of our podcasts on leading groups are probably the best resources because we tend to try to pull people on the podcast that have done a lot. And so just learning from other people is a great way. And then like you said, just staying educated. I'm constantly reading other kinds of leading books or leadership books and then making sure I have good self care for myself. That when I end a group, I don't say I'm going to start a group right away, I won't even give a date. It's like I'm going to end this group and then when I feel like I miss leading a group again, that's when I'm going to start my next one. And that's a huge pitfall for leaders that they just, they see the need and it's hard to feel like you're the only one who can fill that need. But you really have to take care of yourself first and then staying connected with people outside of recovery. So I'm in a Bible study fellowship. I need something else where I'm not the leader, where I can just go and learn on my own without feeling the responsibility of leading others.

That's good. That'll preach right there.

Yeah, I was just going to echo that and say, I think that one of the best things you can do to resource yourself is just to make sure you're continuing to grow as a leader, whether through the group experience or other things you're engaged in. Because if you are growing as a person person, you're going to be a better leader and people will see that in you. But if you kind of settle into that arrival mindset of, well, I know all this and I've learned it all and I'm just here to help you. It impacts the dynamics so quickly. And so I think just staying on that leaning edge of I'm growing personally myself is going to help you as a leader. And then I think you'll see where you need to ask for help and be willing to do it.

Yeah. And being able to let your ministry go to other people so that they can have a chance to lead to that, it's going to be detrimental to your leadership. If you're the type of leader who develops something and then you just want to hang on to it and not let go of any control over it. And so allowing other leaders to step up, and they may make mistakes. They may not do it as well as you, but it's important for them to have that chance to step up and lead others for their own healing. And then bouncing something off somebody else before you make any major decisions, dismissing somebody from group or struggling with somebody, having another leader or mentor that you can talk to about that before making decisions is a good way for you to just not carry that burden all by yourself.

Yeah. Another practical thing that just came to mind is we did infamous group Members series not too long ago and go back and listen to those episodes because those will help you better understand really what we see the more the four most common struggles that people have as a group member. So I think that that can also help.

Yeah, well, and just the overall idea that you might be facing something for the first time in your group, but I can almost guarantee you it's not the first time we've faced it. And so we're here to help. And Ashley, I know that this podcast will be helpful for many, many women and men, too. I think this podcast actually would help anyone that's trying to help someone walk through recovery. And so there's been a ton of great ideas here. But are there any final words of encouragement that you would want to give to women who are looking to lead an unraveled group for the first time?

I would just say go for it. If you feel like you want to lead an unraveled group, there's definitely a place for you to start. Whether it's an online group, joining one or starting one in your living room, or going to talk to your pastor about starting one at church, probably not right now, not right now with coronavirus, but starting one online with your local ladies in your group, just wherever you're at, there's a place you can start. And so if you're feeling that call to get into one or start one, just reach out to us because we'd love to figure out what the best starting place would be.

Yeah. And understand that if you feel this way, guaranteed there are other women who feel the same way. And so don't buy into the lie that you're alone and you're the only person that wants to pursue healing in this area. As you said earlier, Ashley, you have not met a woman who doesn't need healing in this area. There's not a single human alive that doesn't need healing in these areas. And so don't buy into the lie and invest and commit, because you're going to find that There are other people who need it just as much as you do.

Yeah. And I would echo what I think we've said on a lot of these group podcasts, not to wait until you feel ready. And what I mean by that is there are some things in life that will never really feel ready. Like, when do you really feel ready to have a kid? Or when do you really feel ready to go back to school? When do you really feel like there's always things that will make us feel insecure or like, oh, I need to do all these things first. And so if you're at a point where you have seen some change in your life, you've made it through an unraveled group, you are ready in that sense that you can do this. Even if you still feel like, I've still got so much to learn and I've still got so many problems I'm working through, it's like, well, yeah, because you're a human being and we don't want to get to that place saying, well, when I'm perfect, then I'll lead. Say, no. If God's doing something in your life and you're seeing traction and you're feeling that tug of I want to help others, then as Ashley said, go for it. You can do this, and God will bless you. Even in the places where you're still learning yourself.

We believe that every church, every community needs unravel groups. Women everywhere are struggling with how to manage love, sex, relationships, all of those in healthy ways. And we need women to step up and pay their healing forward, step into their healing, and really help others find it as well. And, Ashley, you're the best at that. You just step in and you just lead and you continue. I mean, we're both, you know, friends of yours, and we just love watching how much you're always learning, you're always developing, you're always growing. And so thanks for, number one, investing in yourself, doing the self care, doing the growing, but then also leading these groups and sharing your experience. We appreciate it.

That's really nice. You see my eyes? They're kind of like, watery. Thank you.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Well, thanks, Ash. You rescue your husband and your kids from the snow. Let's them come back in. We're so glad, so glad you could join us today. Yep.

Yeah. So wherever you're at on your journey, pure desire is here to help create a road map for your healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to PureDesire.org and start your healing journey today. And if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do it. It's free. Share it with your friends and family. Write a review, help others find the podcast. And lastly, never stop being healthy.