156 - Recovery Tools: 3 Circles

You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast. Your safe place to find hope, healing and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal and relationship issues. Happy three year Podcast Aversary to you listener. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor and you are listening to episode 156 of the Pure Desire podcast here. Joining me for almost every single episode of these last three years, my co host, Nick Stumbo.

What's up party people?

Jock jams. That's just one of them. I know it's not necessarily, but it just makes me think of jock jams.

My wife and I. One of our shows during quarantine has been the Flash. The Flash Season 6 is finally on Netflix. So we've been watching that and a character used it, I thought, I don't think I've ever used that on the podcast. It's the three year anniversary. Perfect time to pull it out. And can I just say Trevor, good to have you back because I'm pretty sure this is the first episode we're recording post paternity league.

That is true.

And I hosted two episodes and I'm sure our listeners are happy to have you back. Being the host is not as easy as it looks or sounds, but I think we stumbled our way through. Yeah, but I'm glad to have you back in your chair and to be the co host with you.

Yeah, I'm glad to be back. I can kind of hold my eyes open with a three week old at home. But it was good. The two weeks was good. It was good to get away a little bit too. But man, you had to keep reminding me that this is the three year podcastary if you will, just because for me I just get so tunnel. We just do these every week and.

So it's easy to get tunnel vision, keep on going.

But man, just think about the first one that we did sitting in East Hills. I feel like it was their dressing room for baptismals, choir room kind of thing. Gosh, we were operating off of a small computer and the terrible mics and we basically. I basically scripted everything where it just is so different now. But man, it's been a cool journey.

And been really cool to see pros now, huh?

Yeah, I guess. Yeah.

I mean seasoned veterans.

I mean, I don't know about 10,000 hours yet, but we're close. I feel like we've 156 episodes. That's significant. So. Well, so let's just get into a little bit what we talked about and then I'll give a couple thoughts here real quick. But we revisited really another old friend or old tool on the episode today. Um, definitely not a person. I mean, Dan is a great friend, but he's not an old friend for me. But we did talk about another tool today on our Recovery Tools series. Couple quick things though, before we do it, subscribe to the podcast. If you haven't, don't wait anymore. You can find us on all the major platforms and it makes sure that it hits your inbox or hits your feed every single week. If you subscribe. And if you give us a review, it actually helps other people find the podcast. And also there will be a little treat for you if you do leave a review today in our giveaway section. So just be aware of that. Second, follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, instagramuredesirepdmi, and you can get some of the video content as well up on YouTube. And then, Nick, we're coming out of the COVID stuff a little bit here, specifically in Oregon, where I slowly but surely trying not to trigger you because I know it's been a difficult season for a lot of us, but we are now pivoting. You don't like that word, but pivoting a little bit for our Pure Desire Summit, which is coming in the fall and looking more toward having virtual attendance available or online attendance available. But let's talk about the PD Summit a little bit.

Yeah, we're excited about the summit because we know one way or another it is happening and it really for us is a rallying point for everyone that's been a part of a Pure Desire group or recovery journey that just likes to be a part of this, is maybe looking for some wind in their sails, some new encouragement and ideas. Um, we're excited to have a lot of our team speaking and nationally known author Kurt Thompson, who wrote the book Soul of Shame. So we're kind of with everybody else, like we're holding in person events loosely and people can register for that. And we hope that we can have a group in the room. But what we do know is that we're going to have the summit virtually. And so there's a virtual pass that people could buy and encourage you to, you know, get signed up, come for that. And if for some reason, you know, know, let's say even late August, a person decides that they would like to come in person, we can just upgrade your virtual ticket to in person because we'd love to have you come to the room. But we know right now some of those decisions are hard to make. But if you can register for the virtual pass. So we know that you're in and we can start communicating with you. Then you can be a part of this summit event and it's going to be a great time.

Yep. And just go to our website and go to the Find an event page on our website and you will see the picture Pure Desire summit there. Alright. So we sat down with Dan Howey and we talked about really one of my favorite recovery tools that we use besides the faster scale. This one, and I say this a little bit in the episode, is probably one of the most impactful ones for me. We talked about the three circles or relapse prevention tool.

Yeah, I'm really glad we're doing this series because recovery tools, really what we're trying to say is these are essential things that in your journey you're going to need to, to learn to master, to make a regular part of what you do. And I know you talk about it a lot like a tool in your tool belt and you think about tool belts and there's hammers and there's screwdrivers. Like you never stop using those tools because they're foundations for everything you're going to build. And that's really what the three circles is as a tool. It's foundational to create that picture of your journey. And so I hope today we're able to just give people, for those that have maybe been using it for a few years like we have, it gives them some new thoughts or insights or even ideas how to help someone else use it. And for those that might be new to the process, they didn't hear the first episode three years ago that this really gives them some direction to, to implement this on a daily and weekly basis into their journey.

Full disclosure, when I say a tool in your belt, I think of myself as Batman and so I think of utility belt, not, you know, like a hammer.

I guess my, my thoughts just aren't so grandiose.

Anyways, so this is a great episode. Yeah, this is just a really, really good one. And we hope that if you're not currently using this tool, to use this tool and then make sure to go back and listen to episode eight with Harry Flanagan just to introduce this tool from the beginning.

Someday I'd like to hear more about what are the tools that Batman has in his belt. I'm not real clear on what those would be.

I could do a whole other podcast on that one. So enjoy the episode. Dan, thanks for hanging out with us today.

Awesome. Thank you for having me here.

That was a great intro.

Thanks.

A lot of our guests Sometimes they're just kind of like, oh, oh, you're talking to me. Hi.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dan's on top of it. He's ready to go.

This is coffee number two today.

Signature mug.

Yeah, I know. Stay tuned.

Yeah, stay tuned. In this episode, we will be talking about podcast mugs shortly. Okay, so we're continuing our series on recovery tools today. We have been talking really through these because. And we'll talk about it a little bit, that we've done episodes on a lot of these already, but it's one of those things where these are so central to the recovery journey and the healing journey in general that we just feel like it's important to revisit them often. So this probably won't be the last episode on this tool, and it probably won't be the last episode on these recovery tools as a whole. But today we're going to focus on. This is a really big one, I think I would probably say, beside the faster scale, this is probably the most helpful for me. And it's the Three Circles tool, or we've referred to it as the relapse prevention tool. So if you go back and listen, I believe it's episode eight with Harry Flanagan and I almost three years ago.

Yeah, yeah.

Seriously, that's a ways.

Seriously. So I don't know if. And I hope that the microphones pick this up, but if you go back and listen to the episode, I think it was the first one we did with Harry, and there's a lot of, like, hand on the table and a lot of hitting the microphone with your hands, like. And it was like, we were just so new into the podcast and. And. But Harry is all. I mean, his stuff is always so good. So go back for sure and listen to that. We'll drop that into the show notes. But again, because this is such a central tool, we want to revisit it again. So maybe there are some listeners right now that haven't listened to that episode and are fairly new to the podcast and pure desire. So let's just talk about the three circles. What is it?

The three circles. The famous three circles. Yeah. This one gets referenced more in the beginning when I'm running a group. I'm like. And then go to page.

What is it? 153.

Look at this. Because this is where you're going to do this. And I just love it as well. And it's basically that sequence of events that Events and thoughts that lead us back to relapse. So it also gives us a way to live outside of our normal relapse state. So we can define specifically what a relapse is. And that's where we have the inner circle, the foxhole, the crash site. Because oftentimes when you, when you're coming into this process, you're just like, there's a bunch of stuff. There's just like one thing I don't want to do, or maybe there's a bunch of stuff that I feel like I shouldn't do. This helps you get define exactly what it is you're trying to avoid. What are those things? And then those middle steps that probably no one has thought about up until this is what's the kind of the clues that is telling me I'm leading or I'm going back to the things I don't want to do. And then finally the last one, which I never put together, was if I just focus on these things, this outer circle, I'm going to stay out of relapse. I'm not going to be thinking about it. I'm just going to be living in restoration. Because that's really what it is. It's our, our self care and our, the way we live in restoration. So really comprehensive way to live. Yep.

Yeah. It's really a picture of what is health look like for us as we're in recovery and then beyond recovery. What is our new normal going to be? And I think in most areas of our life we have these three circles in mind. We maybe just haven't clarified what they are. So it's maybe a little easier to see if you think about food that we would all think of. And we might not ever call it a relapse with food, but we would know if we sat in, I'd call it relapse. Yeah, some people would. If we just sat and binged on a whole box of Oreos, we'd be like, that was bad, I shouldn't have done that. And that's like a crash. But we also have kind of boundaries or guardrails about food that's like, okay, I should probably only eat one dessert, maybe have one soda or drink one beer if we're into that. Like, so we kind of have those ideas and then we know what healthy eating looks like. I should eat vegetables, I should drink lots of water. So if you think about an area like that that's common to all of us, we have those circles in our lives, what we're trying to avoid, where we need to be careful and what we do to stay healthy. And so really it's just applying that system to our recovery, to sexual behaviors, to things we're trying to change. And to look holistically, to say, what do I have to avoid? And what am I committed to avoiding altogether? Where do I need to be careful and know what those guardrails are? And then what does health look like? And then taking the time to actually write that out and clarify it so that it's not just vague and ambiguous, but that we're clear on. This is my plan. And then once you have that plan, you can be more successful to stick to it.

Yeah. So let me just summarize it. Then. The inner circle is what we call the red circle, which is the behavior I want to avoid. Or that's crash. Yep, the crash. And then you've got the middle circle, which is the yellow or the orange, depending on how you see color, which is a whole nother argument here at Pure Desire. But that is the guardrails, what we set in place to try to help us avoid that behavior. And then the outer circle, or the green circle is health. What does health look like? And it's not just sexual health. It's what are things that help me pursue health holistically, that help me maintain that direction in life that I want to go?

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good summary. So as we're looking at this tool, what makes this tool so effective in the recovery journey?

I think a couple things really make it effective. First of all, you're doing it purposefully and outside of a triggered state. It's not like you're all of a sudden, oh, my gosh, I'm feeling anxious or something, and now I've got to come up with all these things. You're planning it out. You know what an actual relapse looks like. You know what some of those trigger points or things that you're saying you're getting close to. And then also, what do I. What do I do to live in a healthy state? So you're actually doing it. You don't need to recognize something new. You're not going to be like, oh, I wonder what that means when I'm thinking this or doing that. You know exactly what's going to take you there. And honestly, it's just a blueprint for staying healthy, like you were saying.

Yes. Yeah. I think the reason why I feel like it's so effective is it for me, it keeps me from just thinking about the bad behavior that I'm trying to avoid. And I'll probably say that a couple times as we go through this. But like if my one goal is to not think about the purple elephant and all I'm thinking about is don't think about the purple elephant. Don't think about the purple elephant. All I'm going to think about is that stupid purple elephant, by the way.

I've heard that. And the elephant color changes every time. That was purple this time.

The other day of my today.

Yeah, I was going to use purple cow, so that's pretty funny.

Same.

So I think we both chose purple.

It's good. Purple is just the royalty anyways. Or the raptors old uniforms. If you guys remember Toronto back in the day. Oh, there you go. Yep. Vikings. See you gotta have to make that if we have a football season, Lord willing. Okay, so back to it. I think for me what it does is it helps me see the layers to recovery and health as a whole. It's not just avoid this. It's also what are some healthy guardrails or boundaries I need in life and then what are things I can be pursuing in order to really maintain that health. And that's what I like, is it? It helps me, and we'll get to this a little later, not just look at sexual health, but to look at health holistically. What does that look like? And so for me, it helps me to just stop focusing on the negative behavior that I don't want to do and helps me see that I can create that roadmap or that plan for my health.

And honestly, that middle circle, those guardrails, it's good to keep. One of the things that makes it effective is those guardrail things were usually a day to day thing that I lived in. You know, all those things that were taking me to relapse. And so it's easy to slip back into feeling like, well, this is normal, this is okay. It's not a guardrail. It's just a part past part of my past life. My brain can go back there easy. So if I have it written down like, like for me, you know, like entitlement or perfectionism, those are a couple things that are guardrails for me that I lived with for decades. So if I, I can easily just go back to it. But if it's written down, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

This is actually something that tells me I might be heading towards relapse. What's going on?

Your attention, like, oh, okay. I remember this is bad. This is what's taken me to that before.

Yeah. What I was thinking about is how it Gives us a different perspective. Because like you were saying, Trevor, we can get so tunnel vision on what we're not going to do. And just like, this is the big no, that that actually can become a really faulty view of success. And I know that was my struggle as I was dealing with that binge purge cycle of pornography. It's like, hey, as long as I hadn't gone back there, I was quote, unquote successful. Even if maybe I was avoiding my kids, I wasn't really having a strong relationship with my wife. I was stuck in habits of procrastination. It's like, well, hey, I didn't do that. Yeah, so I'm successful. It really changes our perspective to kind of pull back and see from a larger angle to ask that question, what kind of person do I want to be? What does it look like to live in a way where I don't need those negative coping behaviors or patterns to make myself feel good? Because I'm focused on relationships and the kind of work that God has given me to do and the things that are a part of living well in this world that God has given us. So that that change of perspective and how we define success, I think is why it's so effective long term. Because it's not just, okay, how do I stop that behavior, but what does the rest of my life look like? And if we have that perspective, it really can make a difference. And the other reason I think it's so effective is just because you can use the three circles with any behavior that you're working on. And so maybe you're listening to the podcast and you're not the addict or the struggler. You're a family member, you're a spouse. You're just a concerned parent or a leader that wants to help in this area. Listen, we've all got things that we could put in that inner circle to say, when I'm unhealthy, this is where I go. And maybe it's anger, or maybe it's food, or maybe it is porn. But if we could see that system, it can work for all those behaviors. So that's what I love about it, that it's not unique to sexual recovery. It's just unique to living the kind of life we believe God wants us to live.

Yeah, I think what came to mind as you were sharing, that we've heard Jay Stringer talk about it, and I think he even talks about it in his book Unwanted. The idea that a lack of purpose tends to be a really big indicator for someone who Struggles sexually, specifically men. And so it does give you that purpose or that future perspective moving forward. So you kind of jumped into our next question a little bit. That's great. It's okay. Let's kind of break it down a little bit. Well, let me just do this. Let me just share real quick from my perspective and then what you guys, like, you guys offer in anything too. For me, like, food is one of those areas where when I started to get health and traction and sexual integrity and really stopped acting out, stopped looking at pornography, food was that thing. And I can tell you, like, I think this was maybe a couple years ago, and I don't even know if I've even told my wife. She's not gonna be surprised or shocked by this. But, like, there were times where I'd go into the pantry and I'd, like, sneak, like, two Oreos or cookies or something like that. And then I wouldn't take it out into the front room where we were sitting. And so I realized very quickly there's shame there. Like, I'm wanting to hide this. And so for me, I established that snacking at night is a guardrail for me. If I start to hide what I'm eating, then that's an indicator. Okay, this is unhealthy behavior. There's shame wrapped up in this. And this is leading me really to, like, would I say that the effects of a food relapse are different than the relapse and sexual brokenness? 100%. But still, I carry the same emotions and feelings for both. And so it's still something I have to address in my life. So now that you guys have gotten healthy in this area, are there other areas of life that you've used this for?

And what does that look like, what you just described about food? I mean, the results might be different relationally, but what I would say is it's often the very same pattern of emotions happening in our brain and our bodies that leads us to that place. So the question here is, is this effective for other areas of life? And. And the answer is yes, because we all have that emotional trail we take. And I always think of, on the faster scale, you know, one of the relapse questions or things that you could highlight is giving up and giving in. And that might be the commonality we can all see is when there comes a point in my life that I just kind of throw up my hands back, I don't care. It's not worth it. I'm giving up. What do we go to? And whatever that Is that becomes your inner circle that you identify. When I'm unhealthy or when I crash, this is my go to. And if we recognize it has harmful effects in our lives, whether that's just how we feel physically because of food or the relational impact because of our sexual addiction or other kinds of brokenness, that's what we're saying is I can't go here because when I give up, that's what I feel like doing. And so if I can see that pattern and as you've been talking about, Dan, see all the little triggers along the way, now I'm really in tune with what does it look like to avoid going to that old familiar place. So that's why I think it is. It is a very effective tool for just about any area of life.

Sure. And the other part about that is you may not recognize all your relapses. I can't tell you how many guys who've been in group that are like, I'm not doing porn anymore because I'm like, work. It's like 16 hours a day. I'm just like, I'm just pounding it out. I'm so successful, I'm like, well, that may not be the healthiest thing for. For you and your family. So asking and communicating with the loved ones. Because I think what you said when you were first getting into recovery, your friend asked you, how long have you had this problem? But the important one is, is it causing significant pain or harm to your loved ones? And sometimes we just don't understand. See it like if I'm working hard making money, that's great for my family, or if I'm really committed to my health, but I'm over exercising and avoiding. So you know that you have to define what relapse is. You know, for me, it's not going to be gambling because I hate losing money.

Amen. Preach.

Yeah. So anyway, just define your relapses really well. Just very specifically.

That's good. Well, let's take a quick break and we are going to talk about a giveaway that we have for you, listener. So, as you heard in the intro, this is year three. This episode is now three years of the podcast. And I mean, Nick, did you think we'd get this far?

Well, yeah, because I knew we were going to be good at what we do. I just can't believe three years has gone by so fast. That's more how I feel. Like it's been three years. It just doesn't feel like that to me.

That is true. So we have Pure Desire podcast mugs, Dan. If you would like to hold it up for the video, just hold it up so everyone can see. Right now, if you are listening to this, if you can go to itunes or Google Play, even Spotify. What? Anywhere that you listen to the podcast. And if you put a review in right now, it doesn't have to be five stars, but if it's three stars, I'm really not going to feel like I want to give you a mug. But if you can go in, give us a review, the mug might be.

Broken when it gets to you. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. So if you can go give us a review and then screenshot it and email it to me. Trevoruredesire.org t r e v o r@Pure Desire.org the first three people who send me a screenshot of the review that they did. A new review, A new one. Not one that you did in December.

All they're going to do is write good one, and then like screenshot it and send it.

Okay, let's have like a 15 word, like, minimum. Yeah, you have to have a 15 word minimum. Man, this is growing.

Right?

You better be taking notes, listener. But listen, if you.

This podcast is good, Good, good, good, good, good, good.

If you reference pink elephant. Purple elephant.

Purple elephant, Right.

Okay.

That is. Yes, Please don't put purple elephant in that, please, in your review. But if you screenshot it and send it to me, the first three, we will send free a podcast. Pure Desire podcast mug. Man, I feel like that segment was a train wreck.

You didn't think we were gonna make it so hard on you, did you?

It's okay. I like it. All right, so that's the giveaway. Let's continue on.

Okay. So when we're working on this tool, Dan, it can be really easy to focus on those, you know, those tripw wires or triggers, the guardrails, like, okay, I got to be careful about this. Careful about this, careful about this. Why is it maybe a problem to get too focused on just defining all of those triggers in our middle circle?

Yeah. And then that's where Trevor talked about his pink purple cow elephant.

And pink.

We gravitate towards what we focus on. And if we're focused on not doing something, we've all heard it, you know, you're going to end up struggling with doing it. So really, that outer circle is our main focus. That should be where we spend our time and energy. Because if we're filling our mind with, here's what I'm doing on a daily basis to renew my mind. It's essentially that outer circle is restoration. That's the top of the faster scale. These are all the things that if we do and engage in, we're going to have a much better chance of being able to handle those circumstances and triggers when they do come, because they're not going to not come. We're going to be tempted, we're going to be triggered. There's going to be stuff that happens, but if I'm steeped in my self care, I'm going to handle it very differently.

Yeah, well, it's like if we're in a place where we are feeling some temptation or we're triggered that we don't want to just sit there going, okay, well I can't do this because I might see these things. Because even in thinking about that, we actually begin to picture or imagine what we might see. And now we're fighting it more. Okay, I can't do that. I can't. That is not the recipe for success. That if we're in that place where we realize we're susceptible or we're facing some triggers. The best thing is what do I need to focus on instead? Okay, I need to get up and go for a walk and call someone in my group. I need to, you know, pull out my phone and look at those pictures of my family that I've put there specifically for this time. I need to go read that passage of scripture that I've kept in my desks so that I get refocused. And those are the things that are changing my brain's neurochemistry to release a different kind of direction of this is where I go to, to feel good and to get re stabilized, not just trying to hold back the wall of emotion or temptation that I'm facing. So it really is that key again of perspective. And I was going to talk about one of my favorite books is by Anthony DeMello called Awareness. And he quotes saying that the very energy we put towards fighting something actually gives more power to what we're fighting. That the key to success is not to fight against something, but it's to see through it. It's to see the emptiness of it. It's to see that it's not really what we want and, and to be able to see beyond what really does have value. Because when you do that, he says, then the temptation just drops away because it doesn't have that same appeal to you. So I think that's what we're talking about is where do I put my perspective so that I'm not just creating actually more energy towards what I'm fighting.

So there's a book that I read recently by a guy named Daniel Coyle. It's called the Talent Code. And he. He breaks it down. What goes on in the brain when you develop skill or develop talent? And he talks about habits a lot in there. And I would say that we talk about this a lot in our material and our teaching that you have to replace the behavior you're like. We talk about that neurological highway. If you do something over and over and over again, your thoughts quickly go down that highway at a high speed. And in order to break down that highway, we have to build another one. And that highway, what actually happens? Those highways or those pathways in your brain don't actually ever go away. They can turn into a dirt path and look like a post apocalyptic, you know, like, highway, if you will, but they're still there. And so your brain cannot unlearn a bad habit. It actually has to relearn something in its place in order for you to stop doing that behavior. And so what I love is that the Lord set stuff up where, like, we can look at science and that's legit. And then you can also look at scripture, Colossians. I mean, even in Ephesians, it talks about this too. But Colossians 3, that idea of putting off the old man and putting on the new, it's not just put off the old behavior and just avoid it, that's not helpful. You actually can't do that. You actually have to also put something on in place. And that's why for me, you can't just focus on the middle circle. You have to focus on the outer circle. Because that's the behavior that is retraining, reframing, creating new pathways, new highways in your brain. And that's what health looks like.

Yeah.

Okay, so guys, what would you say are some tips? I mean, we've been using these tools for years now. I mean, you guys have been using it longer than I have. I've been using this tool for about five years now. Like, what would you guys say are tips that you would give people on using the three circles?

Number one, be specific. I don't know how many times, like.

For you, you put perfection, like perfectionism. That's extremely specific.

Yeah. And how many times have I heard a guy come into group and his middle circle is like, don't do something stupid. It's like, well, that's probably smart. I mean, but what constitutes stupid? I Mean, like be really specific and specific to you. It's like, like if. If I have a tendency to. To gossip and that causes problems in my marriage, like, how exactly does that enter into it? And that's a process over time. But really being specific and then also be realistic about what. What it is. Don't try to make something so broad or unattainable. Something like, don't trigger my wife. Well, first of all, that's not specific. And triggers aren't bad necessarily. And you're not going to not be able to trigger your wife. You know, what are the behaviors that trigger your wife? That's what you want to focus on. So those are some of the things that really helped. And then we'll get to it later. But don't let this. It's not a one and done exercise.

Yep.

Yeah.

You're not gonna yell.

What comes to mind? For me, I would say, number one, steal from other people. Meaning it's totally okay to cheat off someone else's page if they list a guardrail.

Every teacher right now is just like, oh, no.

And that also doesn't mean come in with a blank and say, just feed me.

Yeah. So you need to do some of your own processing. But that's the value of group is guys and gals, they'll go around and they'll talk about what they put down. You're like, I'd never thought of that. That's a great idea. Like, I shouldn't have my phone in the bathroom. Now, that might seem evident to one person, but someone else. You just hadn't really. It hadn't occurred to you the danger that creates. So as you do this with other people, someone's got a good idea in their guardrails or in their health circle. I mean, don't make up things that you're not. Like you were saying, it's not realistic. You're not going to do that. You know, someone lists biking, and you've never ridden a bike in your life. I mean, that's probably not going to be your health. But if they have an idea, you're like, oh, that's actually good for me. You know, you add that. So steal from other people. Second one is to tell other people, this is a tool I think people might be tempted to just do on their own because it can be humbling to admit what your relapse is. Or you might feel foolish that I don't watch TV alone. That feels like I'm so lame I can't even be trusted with the tv. But if that's where we're at. We need to be able to tell other people, because in telling others, it kind of cements those decisions. And now it takes it out of just that. I have control of my own three circles. And now it's a commitment that I've made to others. And then that's the third one is always ask other people for help if you're going to change anything. Because I brought this up a lot, that part of our struggle in addiction is we think we're healthier than we are. We've lied to ourselves. We lived in denial and rationalization and minimization. And so throughout our addiction, we're like, oh, I can handle that. And then it turns out we can't. And in recovery, hopefully we're getting better. But that mindset is still in there. It's like, man, I've been awesome for three months. I don't need this anymore. Whereas people in our group or our family, if we told them, they'd be like, that's pretty early to be changing that. It's like two days.

John, are you sure you.

And they might say, we're proud of you for the progress you're making, but it's too early to make some changes. And just think, you're going to be fine to start walking that high wire with no safety net. Yeah, that's not smart. So in allowing others to speak into that process, it really can keep us from becoming foolish and veering back into old behaviors.

Yeah. The only one I'd give is just to look at this as a dynamic document, not or tool, not static. So what you right now may change. You referenced relapse, changing or developing, but you're still avoiding those behaviors that you did at the beginning. But now relapse looks like if you snap at your kids or if you get to a certain point on the faster scale or something like that. But for me, too, I can see where there are healthy things. And I've had this happen where for me, reading at night tends to be something that refuels me and is a healthy habit for me. But I've seen certain seasons and certain times that actually becomes something I used to avoid and isolate. And so understand that just because something's healthy right now, if the season changes or something happens where it's like, oh, I'm going to the gym, you know, four hours every single day. And when I get home, my wife is freaking out because I've been gone for so long. Maybe you should reevaluate that healthy behavior quote, unquote healthy and reevaluate. Is that something that I need to change or develop? And so I think looking at this as something that can grow, it's okay. I think you've said this before too. It's okay if your list grows. Like it doesn't mean you're a worse person. It actually means you're better because you're more self aware of the things that are triggering the more things that are unhealthy. So I think looking at it as a dynamic document or tool that can continue to grow.

Yep.

Yeah. So on the flip side, you know, those are some tips. What are the common mistakes or errors that we've seen people make as they develop their three circles that we would encourage people to avoid as they really work this plan in their lives?

I think it feels like the biggest mistake I've seen is making it a behavior modification tool. In other words, I don't want to act out sexually. I have unwanted sexual behavior. So I'm going to put guardrails in. I'm going to focus specifically on this to make sure that I don't do that. When in, in. What do we call this? The relapse prevention tool. Relapse, if you relapse, can come in all sorts of ways. And essentially that, like I said before, that outer circle is your, your self care.

Write it down.

Because if we're engaged in only avoiding a specific behavior, we'll just find something else to medicate our pain with or things like that. So really making sure that that outer circle is complete and focusing on that will help us to identify the other things we go to. And then also just staying out of that middle circle altogether.

Yeah, yeah.

I think it's being vague and being too short. I think those are the two things that really. I see. Like you said, you need to be really, really specific. So being vague just doesn't, it doesn't. Number one, it does nothing for you, like except give you an excuse to lean on later. And also not, you know, what you're doing is you're actually stunting your self awareness growth, if you will, if you're not specific. And then two, if the lists are so short. Yeah, it's like because if you're talking about honing in just on that, like if, if my one like green outer circle thing that I want is a healthy sex life with your wife, great. That's awesome. That's a good thing to pursue. What if that's not going well and you have nothing else in your outer circle like bro, some bad's coming, like, it's gonna happen. You know what I mean? So make sure that it's not short and it's not big.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about, too. The number of times in group a guy will have 37 guardrails. And then two things in the outer circle. What are the healthy behav. I can read my Bible and pray. It's like, well, that's awesome. And I. I would encourage you to read your Bible and pray, and those are great activities. But if I'm struggling, if I'm in a low day, if things are not going well, and that's my only go to I've ever thought of, like, it's probably not going to work for me every time. And so I really challenge people to say, your list for healthy behavior should be as long, if not longer, than your guardrails. And as you were saying earlier, Trevor, those also should continue to grow. You should be finding new things that fuel you, that create joy, contentment, peace. Like, you know, maybe you've started engaging in the relationship with your spouse more and you've started going for walks. I mean, this is especially during COVID Like, I'm hearing all these people, they just walk every day, and it's amazing. And they're like, I never knew how much. How good that was for my relationship, you know, and so there's things like that you add to the outer circle. Going on a walk, Going on a walk with my wife, going on a walk with my kids, going for a bicycle ride. Like, just continuing to see. These are things I can choose to do instead. And so the other mistake I see a lot of is that people just don't use it. You know, I'll hear a guy struggling or talking about a relapse in group, and I'll ask, when's the last time you looked at your three circles? And they're like, well, when. When did we do that lesson? Was that like two months ago? You know, they did the lesson. It's in their book. They turned the chapter and. And it is in a lesson. And so we might think, well, that's where I do it. But really, it's meant to be kind of a weekly, at least monthly time that you're taking it out, reading through it, thinking what you need to add or adjust, what needs to adapt. Because when you're aware of it, then you're more likely to follow it if it's just an exercise you did once, and then it's been in a drawer for the last six months. It doesn't help you, you know, any more than taking a class 10 years ago that you can't remember a single thing from. So making sure we just keep it in front of us. Keep it in front of us and ask the question, what do I need to add? What do I need to adapt? Because our lives adapt, our lives change. And so the three circles, the relapse prevention tool, needs to change along with us. Yeah.

So that just kind of brought another, like, idea or tip off of that. I think scheduling those healthy behaviors will be extremely effective. I think sometimes we just assume if we've written it down or we've looked at it, that we'll go do that. But just because you say, oh, walks are good, doesn't mean you're actually going out and doing it. And so if you're revisiting it, you know, once a week or a couple times a month, make sure that you're putting that on your schedule. On Tuesday, I'm gonna go on a walk with my wife at 3pm like, if you can be that specific on it, then it's actually. Because what I'm learning in my life is that what gets scheduled gets done what I hope to get done. But don't write down or don't put on the calendar like there's a decent shot that's not gonna happen. So I think being specific is helpful.

Yeah.

All right, so let's wrap it up with this. Is this tool. Because this is a tool that's specifically for people who are in Pure Desire groups or other recovery groups. Use this tool or a version of this tool as well. How much do we use this tool and do we ever stop using it?

When I came on here to Pure Desire, Harry Flanagan was kind enough. He's my counselor, and I called him, oh, Harry.

Oh, Harry.

I love Harry. He's one of my very greatest mentors and friends. I called him up, said, hey, we're coming here. He's like, great, let's set up some accountability time, and we'll meet weekly. And I said, great. And he said, let's. First thing he said, we're going to do the three circles exercise. Bring it next time. And the other thing he said was, don't use the circles. That's the other thing that we make a mistake if we run out of room in the circles, which is very small.

That's true.

It's like, I can't fit anything else in. I guess I'm done. He's like, make a list.

Envisioning, like, a large wall size Three circles we could all print out and put in our office.

Absolutely. Well, actually, the unraveled material does the same thing. And they have three circles. Then the next page, they did something really brilliant. They put a header and a list. You just keep filling it in. And so how often do we use it? All the time. Like you said, go back to it, revisit it. It's a living document that needs to be updated. Because if we're changing, which is the entire healing process and we're moving towards health, things are going to change. We need to update it. And we discover new relapses, we discover new triggers, things like that. Use it all the time. And it doesn't. It's not. Again, not single behavior specific.

Yeah, it is hopeful to think that over time we will internalize some of these steps and processes, that it will become our new normal as we lean into those healthy behaviors. And we really define a week by, am I doing these things? Am I engaging in relationships? Am I developing my spiritual life with Christ? And am I doing things that challenge my thinking and grow my brain? And if those just become part of how we do life, I think it over time. And when I say over time, I mean three, four, five years. I don't just mean your first few months, because I think initially in recovery, I do encourage people to review it weekly just to kind of that checkup, to be honest with yourself, honest with group members, that it's the kind of tool you can be sharing with your spouse. Those were really great conversations for us in the early days of recovery was because my wife didn't want to or should not have been the police officer or my mom looking over my shoulder, you know, are you doing your group work? That was something I could voluntarily come to her and say, you know, here's the commitments I've made. We've talked about these, and here's how I'm doing. I didn't watch TV alone all week. I didn't. And here's how I'm doing in my commitments in the Green Circle. My devotional life's going really well. I'm exercising, I'm eating well. And it gave her a lot more confidence to see me doing those things and not just saying, oh, I'm doing good. I haven't relapsed. Because that is what, in a lot of our relationships, that's really all we know to say is, well, did you or didn't you? And there's a whole lot of conversation that needs to take place beyond did you or didn't you mess up so early on. I think we use it weekly, but if we are able to internalize it, we might not have to review it as often. You know, that's where I say at least monthly, pulling it up. You know, I've got a file on my computer that at least monthly, I'm still reading through and kind of checking because what I do notice is my tendency to blur the lines. And I don't realize sometimes how specific I was. Like, oh, that's very specific. And I've started to just ever so slightly make certain things permissible. And that's not to say I've gone back into a crash, but I can see that over time, if I keep doing that, it's that whole one degree off now can be a thousand miles off a year from now. And that's what I'm trying to be conscious of, is I'm a human being. For the rest of my life, I'm a human being, and I will be susceptible to weakness, to pain, to avoidance. And if I don't pay attention to those things, maybe this month I'm okay. But a year from now, maybe I'm engaged in behaviors that are pulling me in directions I really don't want to go. So I think that's kind of my standard is, hey, review it at a minimum for the rest of your life. And maybe with that is the perspective not seeing it. I think some people in group, especially if you're in a group, like for those that struggled seven pillars unraveled early on, we might feel like the three circles was a bit of a punishment. All these guardrails. I had to have things I couldn't do. And if we view it that way for the rest of our life, we are going to struggle. If it's always this punishment of things we can't do. But if we can make a mental shift, say, no, this is a picture of what health looks like. Well, then we'd say, why wouldn't I use that the rest of my life?

Yeah, a lot of good stuff in there, for sure. I think my thing is just if you want to stop growing, great, stop using it. It's just that plain and simple. If you have graduated and no longer have any unwanted behavior in your life, and this is, of course sounding condescending, but we all slip into that mindset from time to time. Just understand that this is not a tool you want to use. If you don't want to keep growing, don't use it. But if you do want to keep growing, a tool like this specifically, this is the one we tell you to use. Keep using it because you're going to have unwanted behavior. Right now, I'm managing through anger. You know, we're just. Right now, at the time of the recording, things are starting to open back up from COVID We have a three week old at home and a three year old. I snap at my three year old a lot over the last 10 weeks of quarantine and for me, that's what I'm trying to figure out now. So I'm trying to identify what those guardrails are and trying to look for those healthy things that I can do. And so for me, that's an unwanted behavior that I want to change. And so this tool is something I'll continue to use for the rest of my life. So what's awesome is that this tool has not just helped us in the room, but has also helped so many other men and women. And it's not only just helping them generally, it's actually helping them to look at their unwanted behaviors, create guardrails around them, and then pursue health holistically, which, you know, we've talked about a lot already. So just understand that this is a tool that helps give you that path to what to avoid, what to put in place to help, and then what to pursue going forward. So if you do not use this tool, and even if you're not in group, like, look, we'll put it in the show notes like, please use this tool, develop it. And yeah, this is just again, a really, really helpful recovery tool. So, Dan, thanks for being here, man. Appreciate it.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Wherever you're at on your journey, thank you. Pure desire is here to help you give the roadmap to healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to our website, PureDesire.org and start your healing journey today. And if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do it. It's free forever. Share with your friends and family. Write a review, screenshot it, send it in. We'll give you a mug, 15 words minimum. Help others, find the podcast and listen. Last thing before I do the closing line. If you've been listening with us for three years, thank you. Yeah, thank you for listening. Thank you for engaging in your health and in your recovery. Because you are not the one, the only one who is benefiting from that. Everyone around you is benefiting from you. So lastly, never stop being healthy.