158 - Recovery Tools: Recovery Action Plan

You're listening to the Pure Desire Podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. Happy, happy day to you people. I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you are listening to episode 158, Holy. Enter whatever word you want of the Pure Desire Podcast. Here joining me as always is my co host, Nick Stembo.

Hot dogs, popcorn, peanuts.

All right, so full, full disclosure here. We are recording this episode before the Major League Baseball season has officially been greenlit to begin.

We're almost June.

It's so we. I'm just.

I'm missing it, man. I'm really missing it.

Yeah. And you. And honestly, you should. Like, I didn't. You don't realize how important something is until you don't have it. And you're just like, oh, yeah, when's the last time I saw a home or someone strike out?

I just want to go up to Seattle, pay $900 for popcorn and hot dogs and my four kids to get a soda and watch the Mariners lose. You know, it's. There's something nostalgic about. It's. It's an oldie but a goodie that we miss, you know? Yeah, it's kind of what we're doing today is we're. We're bringing back out an oldie but a goodie because it's something we all need in our lives.

That's right. So before we get to that, a couple things, actually, A few. Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't subscribed on all the major platforms, and if you would give us a review that would help others find the podcast. And that also means a lot to us. Also, follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. We areuredesirepdmi, and we've got clips of these podcasts up on YouTube. Just search Pure Desire Ministries. Okay, so we are getting closer and closer and closer to the Pure Desire Summit. And this is our first ever Pure Desire Summit. And this year, we're planning. Hey, we're going to have 10,000 people in person. It's gonna be so good. And then COVID 19 came in and bashed it with a baseball bat. So we are now pushing virtual registrations over physical. We're hoping that in September we do have some room for people to come in person, but we're still really excited. We're still putting on this event, and we really think it's gonna be valuable.

Yeah, it's going to happen. That's what I was thinking about. Like, what is that Friday? Is it September? 11th, or is it 1011-12? Okay, September 11th, Friday. I want to encourage you listeners, put in right now to your boss, you want Friday, September 11th off. Because whether you're going to be here with us in Portland to be in person or to watch the virtual event, because we're hoping and planning to do a lot of those sessions live. And if you're working that day, you know it's going to be really hard. So just plan that Friday to spend with us and the Saturday as well. And really looking forward to the various topics and speakers. And it's just, it's kind of our Pure Desire annual party, if you will, to highlight what God's doing through the ministry. What are the new things we're learning? How can we encourage you? And we just want all of you, our listeners, to be a part of that with us. So if you're uncertain about traveling, we totally get that sign up for your virtual ticket. But if in faith, you know, you want to plan to come, you can buy your in person ticket as well. And we expect we'll at least be able to have some people in the room. And if for some reason, you know, we're all in this weird waiting game with COVID if you can't be in the room, we'll transfer you to a virtual ticket and make up the price difference. So yeah, we just, we want people to plan on attending, whether in person or in your living room. And we'll be glad to have you either way.

So go to our website under the events tab, find an event you will see our Pure Desire summit. And you can register there, get more information. Alright, so like you referenced and almost made me cry that baseball isn't around. Currently, we revisited another tool. Tool. It's not an old tool, it's just a tool that we have had an episode on before and we had Ashley Jamison, our international women's groups coordinator, on which.

Awesome.

She was on the first episode that we talked about this tool. We talked about the recovery action plan.

Yeah. And like baseball, it's something that you may not realize how much you miss it until it's gone. If you have a relapse occurring or you're in a marriage where there's been a relapse and you don't really know what to do in that void, you can be like, I wish we'd have had a plan. That's what the recovery action plan is about. To recognize a relapse doesn't have to be part of our recovery, but it might be. And so let's think proactively about the future and have a plan. And today's episode, you know, Ashley's lived this out. I know. On both sides of the equation. You and I have worked through our own recovery action plan because we want to be aware, no matter how healthy we get, that we've got to have these in place. And so we, we just try to bring that experience to say, let's have a plan. Because if we have the plan, Lord willing, we won't need it. But to think through, what will I do, what am I committed to, really helps us continue to walk towards healing even if there's been a relapse.

Yeah. And this wraps up our recovery tools series. We hope you've enjoyed it. We have enjoyed revisiting these again, just knowing that these are really essential tools for the recovery and the healing journey. So this is a good one. I know. Anytime we have Ashley on, people enjoy it. So do it. Enjoy the episode. Ashley, welcome back. Thanks for being here.

Hi. I'm excited to be here.

Why don't you tell, I mean, you were just telling us. Why don't you tell the listeners what your plans are like? You've got like almost two feet out the door ready to bounce off this podcast because you guys are going to do some stuff. I do.

I'm bouncing, I'm jumping. I'm looking out at my truck. The sun is shining. Our bikes are loaded, our kayaks are ready. It's our anniversary. 11 years ups and downs. We're kind of in a down, up, down. Hopefully this week will be up. I am in my full kayak, ready to be outside all weekend, biking the trails gear. And I just threw on a, a business top podcast ready, business top.

Right on. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. Well, I mean, that could be. We could talk about really what you just said. You and John being on kind of a down. We could talk about that. But we're going to move on because we had planned this podcast might come out in the tool for sure. So today we are wrapping up our series on recovery tools and we're talking about a big one in the pure desire material that can help both the struggling individual if they're married and also the betrayed spouse if they're married. So it can help a single and also both spouses in a marriage. And so today we are talking about the recovery action plan. If you guys remember, and I hope listeners, you can fact checked me on this. Fact checked me. Fact check me. That's hard to say.

Say that 10 times fast episode 17.

We did with you, Ashley. You actually, you know, you reference this out all the time. We did an episode on the recovery action plan. But again, this series is really coming back looking at these again, trying to not rehash them, but really bring it afresh because these are tools that we use on a consistent basis in our material. So go back and listen to that one. But if you haven't listened to that one, Ashley, will you help us recap a little bit? What is the recovery action?

Yeah, it's really simple and self explanatory. It's an action plan, meaning we're going to do something to take action in response to a relapse. So it's basically if you need to recover from something usually traumatic or chaotic or shameful, we're going to now put our plan of action in place. And it's best to do that when you're not in trauma, when you're not in chaos, when you're not in shame. And so we make these plans beforehand when we're healthy and we're surrounded by group members or our spouse or we're on fire for doing things right. And then we pull those plans out that we made when we're healthy in the midst of chaos. And we say we're going to follow this because we trust that we made a good plan when we were in a healthy mindset and now we may or may not be and we're going to just pull this out and follow the steps. It kind of gives you little pavers to walk forward out of the shame that you're not just stuck there. Gives you little stepping stones.

Yeah. I think what we want to recognize is that just because you've made a commitment to change and to pursuing freedom doesn't mean you immediately have the ability to change and experience freedom. And so many, many people and couples along the way towards freedom and recovery are going to experience bumps along the way. And whether you are the one who's struggling and battling through an addiction or you're the spouse of someone who's struggling, both parties need this recovery action plan. But it's also needed by singles. Because what we're looking at is to say, there is something in my life that I have committed to saying, I don't want to do that anymore. And if I do, I'm recognizing it as a relapse. And I want to learn and grow and change in response to it. I don't just want to sweep it under the rug. I don't just. I think in many recovery plans, there's actually an unhealthy attitude of just like, well, you know, don't focus on that. Just move on. You know, kind of pretend it didn't happen. Focus on the good things. But what we want to see is that if a relapse does happen again, whether you're the one that made that choice because you're the struggler or the one impacted by it, that can actually be a deeply insightful time for change and growth and learning. And so it's important to recognize we all need this not because we're bad people, but because we're human beings. And the likelihood that a mistake can be made or there's. There's just going to be ups and downs along this journey. We want to prepare in advance how to deal with the relapse, whether we're the one impacted by it or the one that made that choice so that we do learn and grow. And so it's being honest about our ability to change and how long it's going to take, but really implementing something so that we know, as Ashley said, we know how to respond if that situation occurs.

Yeah, and two important pieces for me that this really hits on is the writing something down piece that you're putting something in ink or putting something technically permanently down. And then that does some things with your brain, but it's also you actually taking that step of mapping this out, which means you've put thought into it. But then also the idea of it being a plan. Like stuff that gets done are planned. Like you can't just say, oh, you and I were healthy enough that we don't need this, because if I relapse again, we. We are going to be in a good enough place and we don't have to have these action steps. We don't need to have something in place. But those things, I mean, that's not accounting for the emotions or the buildup or what happened. And so I think that if you're actually able to put something down on paper and then also have it be a plan, that's the stuff that gets done and implemented.

That's such a good point too, because, you know, when you think about if somebody's relapsing, then they're in that negative space that they don't want to go to. But also the lies they're listening to of I'm not good enough. I know one trigger for John or lie or, you know, when he gets to that really unhealthy place can be that he doesn't have a say because he grew up in a really rigid home. And I can be kind of bossy. And so I don't surprise, but. And so then in that moment, when he's in that. When he's healthy, he doesn't think that way. He knows, okay, we're a team. Ashley may be a more assertive and a number seven on the enneagram and just out there, but when he's in that relapse place, those lies of she's smothering me, she's making all the decisions. I have no choice, I have no say because he grew up in that home. That's where he is limbically. He's just in that spot. And so it is not a good time for me to start saying, these are the things I need in order to feel safe. But if I can pull out the plan and say, this is your handwriting. This is what we decided when we were in a healthy place. And you know, sometimes I even have to say, like, can't you see that, like, you're in relapse? I'm triggered, I'm traumatized. But this is what we made with wise counsel when we were in a really good place. And so it's not then me saying, I need you to do things, which is just going to open up some of those old wounds around being bossed around, but it's me getting our plans out and looking in our own handwriting that this is what we decided as a couple was going to happen after relapse.

Yeah. So the recovery action plan is a proactive tool that we put in place of how we're going to respond if a relapse happens. So, Ashley, in our definition of it, it maybe explains a little bit why it's so important and why it's beneficial. But talk through for listeners, why is this tool so beneficial for both the struggling spouse and the betrayed spouse to have in place?

Yeah, well, for the struggler and, you know, I've been on the receiving end and the giving end. I've had my own addictions, my own struggles, and then I've been the betrayed spouse of somebody. And it's really easy when you're in that place to either one, stay stuck in shame, just want to kind of fold into yourself, feel really bad about what you did and just not make any movement. Just feel sad and self soothe and medicate, which doesn't get you anywhere. It just makes it, you know, then it just adds, you know, trauma on trauma or what I see a lot in my relationship with John is that if there's been secrets for a While then it's like this, I call it his holy spirit high of like, okay, it's out. Oh, my gosh, I've been struggling with that. I am not going to do that again. And this overconfidence that that's not going to happen again. And so both ends are really extreme. And to have a plan that's just concrete and practical and you worked out and, and it's things that you listed out that are the natural effects of what happens because of your relapse, you're acting out. And then also plans you need to put in place to make sure that you don't go there again or that you start rebuilding trust are really important because in that moment of relapse, you're basically in your unhealthiest version of yourself right then. So that is not the time to start making decisions of, I'll never do that again. I just feel so glad I got caught. I'll never do that again. Or I'm just a terrible person. And being that martyr just, I'm bad. I'm terrible. And so you don't want to make decisions when you're in your unhealthiest version of yourself. And likewise for the betrayed spouse that it can be really traumatic to discover maybe your spouse is lying to you or cheated on you or is being unfaithful in some way or looking at porn and all you don't need to make decisions on how to handle your relationship or how to regain trust when you're also battling insecurities. Not good enough replaying what happened over the relapse. And so, yeah, it's just as simple as that. You do not want to make decisions about your marriage and your relationship when you are in your unhealthiest version of yourself and your brain is firing on all kinds of survival instincts.

Well, and what you're saying, too, it's like somebody, it's almost like the unknown can be what's the most terrifying. And I feel like that's kind of what puts. Specifically, I probably could put both spouses, the struggler and the betrayed spouse, kind of on alert or like, suspicious of, okay, when is this going to happen again? But if you have, and this is the principle, this doesn't always happen as cleanly. But if you have this recovery action plan in place, you know that you can lean on a process that you both have established and written down and agreed upon. And so you know what you're going to need to do when that happens. And then also, like you're saying, because I think we like to think of ourselves a little bit, not necessarily more high, highly, you know, than we actually are. But we're like, oh yeah, I'm totally mature enough to handle another relapse. I know exactly what to know because of what you're saying. Like, it's trauma and it's shame and when those two dance together, nothing really good happens. But I just think that that's so important that once we have something in place, we don't have to be suspicious or worry because we already have that plan in place. We don't have to carry around that anxiety all the time.

Yeah, when I think of the benefits, there's really two things that come to mind. And these are more on the side of the one who's struggling or battling through the addiction. And the first is just that Murphy's Law idea that if you don't have it, you're going to need it, but if you have it, you're not going to need it. What we have found for men and women in groups is if they have a very clear plan of action for what will happen after a relapse, it actually becomes a tremendous roadblock or barrier to relapse. Because when we're headed back to that old familiar place that's we're starting to listen to the lies and the lies say, no one needs to know, it's not hurting anybody, it's not a big deal. But if we have a plan that we've committed to and told other people about that says, if I make this choice to relapse, here are things I will do. And now we say back to our brain, no, it does matter and other people will know. And I've made commitments of what I'm going to and that's, I don't want to have to do those things. And so it becomes a deterrent to relapse. And so that's what we've just found over and over in groups is if you have a very clear thought through plan, it actually helps you not need it. And that's a great thing. And it really ties into the second benefit, which is an understanding of how our brain works. And I remember for me, this was so revolutionary early on because it really took me out of the shame aspect of acting out into kind of the way our brain works. And here's the understanding. It's that at its most fundamental level, your brain is designed by God to operate off of a punishment reward system. And it's brilliant. I mean, it's basic human survival that God wired into us. That we avoid what hurts, and we gravitate towards what feels good. And the key to me, when I learned about it, is that that is not a moral part of our brain. It's not based on morality. It's based on what feels good and what doesn't. And so the truth is, in our addictive behavior, we keep returning to it because something about it works and feels good. There is a high that comes. There is a hit of the brain chemicals. There's the answer to those deep emotional questions that even for a few moments, there's that reward. And our brain says, that was good. And the punishment side, it hasn't really felt or experienced. And so by implementing these natural and logical consequences of a recovery action plan, we're actually getting our brain to work for us. Because if we relapse and experience some pain and difficulty and unpleasantness and punishment, in a sense, now, we don't want to think of it as punitive, but to our brain, its punishment reward system, it views it as punishment. The brain goes, ugh, I don't like this. And so the reward of the relapse wasn't worth the punishment of what happened afterwards. And our brain actually begins to be retrained and says, the benefits are not worth the pain. And so let's not go there. Let's find something else to do. And so now your brain, as God designed it, is working for you, not against you. So at that fundamental level, the recovery action plan just puts your brain on your side and says, man, let's pursue what feels good, which isn't the relapses and the stuff that comes afterwards.

Yeah. And even with that, I mean, and that's the perfect example of being able to visualize and feel and weigh the consequences of your action. That for a single person, you know, when I was struggling, if I would have had these tools back then and relapsed and said something like, okay, I don't. I don't get to use the computer at home. I have to go to the library for a month to use the computer for things, because that's a safe place to use the computer. And then after, you know, getting home from a day of work and being tired and having to get in the car to go to the library to pay bills, that's where that next time you're tempted to relapse is like, I don't want to do that again. That's a lot of work, the library for a moment, you know? And so even for a single person, it just helps them see that everything you Know that your actions will have an impact on something. And so it's easy to just, like you said, believe those lies, that you're not hurting anybody, it's not affecting anything. And so it's just being able to weigh those consequences, which if you think.

About it, is a healthy way to think in general that all of my behaviors have consequences, both good and bad. And so this is definitely a good tool in general. Okay, so let's kind of flesh that a little bit then for an individual or a couple. What should the recovery action plan look like? And we can use kind of maybe some examples here on what, you know, some examples for each section of those consequences and what a plan would look like.

Well, just for those who maybe aren't familiar with our episode 17 way, way way back ago, because we've been doing this for so long now, there is a process. And so it's first identifying first what's a relapse to you. It may be porn, it may be masturbation, it may be affairs, flirting, all.

Of you.

All of those work.

So what is your relapse? And then how does it affect yourself, your relationship with yourself, God, others, Those natural consequences, like what happens when I do this, maybe a natural consequence is I'm short on rent because I spent my money on something else. So those are the impacts, the effects of what happens when you do this that nobody has to impose. It just happens because of this. I maybe break trust, I maybe feel shame. And so then I isolate from church members or from accountability people because I'm feeling shame of my actions. And then from there you go to logical consequences of what can I do to help me see and feel and weigh those consequences. And if you're married, it may be I sleep out of the bedroom, or my wife and I, or my husband and I, we're not sexually intimate with each other because of the broken trust and because of the insecurities or because of my non stop thoughts or whatever it may be. And so we have to give ourselves a period of healing in order to come back together. And then from there you really just decide what you need to keep yourself healthy and good ways of self soothing and taking care of yourself so that you don't stay stuck there. That's looking at restoration and doing those things and sharing with others your accountability partners. And just start doing the steps again. Because up until this point it's been a lot of secrets and lies, whether you're single or in a couple. And so now you have to start doing things in order to Regain trust, regain confidence in yourself if you're a single person, that you don't have to stay stuck there. And so with us, I mean, if you want some live examples, sleeping separately is a good one. Because in an addict betrayed spouse situation, it could be twofold. You could have an addict who needs to know that things don't just go on as normal. That's such an intimate part of marriage. And when that's breached and when that covenant between you, your spouse and you and God is broken, it causes real damage in the marriage. And. And then to rush into anything causes the betrayed spouse to feel used. I know for myself personally, it's the words are unused, invaluable, not needed. That's a huge one for men who act out and then their spouses of not feeling needed. And so just looking at all those pieces of how do I feel and what do I need in order to gain stability and start making traction on building trust again, is what you want to look at, not just implementing punishments, but what do I need in order to feel grounded in this relationship or grounded with myself if I'm a single, in order to start moving forward in recovery again?

Yeah, I think what it looks like, you know, I'd really recommend that everyone go to our website@puredesire.org and under our resources look for the free tools because we have an outline both for the addict or the struggler and for the spouse. And I would say get that PDF and just follow on each of them. We have about a six or seven step process and Ashley's kind of walking through it verbally, but you could just follow those steps of, okay, identify what constitutes a relapse and be specific about it. Then identify who I need to tell. Because that's a huge piece of a recovery action plan is if you don't know who you're going to tell and it's just for you, it ain't going to work, let's put it that way. It has to be something you're committed to telling other people, both if you relapse and what your plan is, and then identifying the logical consequences, the natural consequences. And some of the steps too are about why are you doing this? To look into your vision, your motivation, like what is your goal for your relationships, for your life, for the things God wants to do in you. Because you also want to keep that vision of here's why I'm doing this. Because as Ashley said, it's not punitive. The goal isn't to just punish yourself or punish your spouse for what they did, it's really to say, this is the future. This is the vision I believe God's called me to. And when I relapse or when there's a relapse in our relationship, it keeps us from getting to that place God wants us to go to. And so that becomes our motivation. And I would just really encourage people, don't, don't try to create this on your own. Just follow those steps, write something out. And I think what you have in the end will be a plan you can really work with. And the other thing I'd say, and I know we're going to get into some tips in a minute, but like to keep in mind, this is a living document. It's not like you fill it out one time and never change it again. You learn, you grow. What you need right now, six months into recovery isn't what you'll need six years in recovery. And so you just, you keep adapting and changing as you learn and see what works for you. And. But I'd really recommend that people just follow that outline and begin to implement the steps that are there.

We've put a lot of time and energy into this resource and many people have used it. So I think it's Dr. Ted who says we pay the dumb tax, so just trust that and start using it.

Yeah, well, and maybe we can reference too. I don't remember what the one is that's one sided healing for the addict, but one sided healing for the spouse is episode 18. And so if you're in a relationship and you're creating a plan and either you're the addict or the spouse and your partner's not on board, then what does that look like too? So there's all kinds of different dynamics in creating a plan and you just have to do what works for you individually. It's not how one size fits all at all.

Yeah. And that's the value of a group, that's the value of a counselor, of other people speaking into this process. So as you write it up to take it to them and say, hey, what am I missing? What should I add? What would fill this out? And so we're already getting into it. Ashley, let's ask the question and send it back over to you. What are some of the tips you give to people when they're working on their recovery action plan? Maybe for the first time or maybe because of this episode, they're pulling it back out and looking at it again. What are tips that you'd recommend they keep in mind?

I recommend one you already covered this. You don't want to do this by yourself. You want to have other people. Because when we're working in high stress situations, our brains are kind of tunnel vision. And so we do want people to help us see maybe areas we're not seeing. People who have been down the road that maybe could give helpful suggestions, questions. You know, I'm not going to have John, like vacuum the whole house and scrub all the toilets if he relapses, because that's not doing anything. It may be helpful for another couple for some reason. You know, it may be helpful for another couple. And so you want to be able to just dig in and dissect what it is that you need to feel stable and move forward. And that's like the biggest thing to look at is first start there is just, what do I need in order to feel like I can move out of this and not be stuck in it? And so, you know, for example, it can be hard after relapse that takes place with John and I, that he's like, I've already been here before. I've already told her these things. And so anything I say is like kind of wasted words because I've already been here. And so I'm just going to be quiet. Whereas me, I need lots of communication. I want to. I want to hear the process of what's happening during the day and where you're at and where we're at and. And I'm verbal and women are like that a lot anyways. And so if you have a spouse, ask them what they need. If your plan is to help rebuild trust and establish that again and rebuild intimacy, then if you have a spouse, the best thing you can do for yourself is one, make sure that you're in a group with healthy people. And two, that you're asking, when I do this, how does it make you feel? How does it impact our relationship? And when I do this, what do you need to see from me or what do you need from me in order to feel safe again, to feel stable? And that's a really humble place that you have to go in order to do that, because you may not like what you hear. I know that some of the things that I've told John that make me feel safe are things that he enjoys. And that's a hard place to be. But if you really want this to work, then you have to know what it is your spouse needs in order to feel secure and feel safe. And so that's probably my biggest tip. And then avoid just Punishments, you know, punitive punishments that, you know, if you do this, then this is going to happen because I want you to suffer. Or for a spouse who's creating a plan. Don't create your plan through the lens of, I want to create this plan in order to change that person or in order to fix that person or this is what I actually think they need to be doing to get better. Your plan should be through your own vision, your own filter of what do I need to feel secure in this marriage, to feel safe, to feel stable? Not what you think they need.

Yeah, I think we've already talked about it. I know we have that this is something we should be doing when we're in a good place. It's not something maybe you should be doing when you're triggered, though, there is that element of shortly after a relapse. There is a ton of clarity. There can be a ton of clarity at what motivated and what steps do I need to do to avoid this? But even in saying that people are like, oh, well, then I should go relapse right now so I have clarity. No, that's not what I'm saying. Just make sure you're in a healthy spot. So don't. Yeah, and that's part of also not doing it alone. But I think another thing too is how can I remind myself? Because this is, I think, where my mind would go. Relapse happens. I come back to my recovery action plan. I'm like, I don't really remember why I wrote this part down. Do I really have to do this step this time is maybe write out the reasons for each of the consequences. And so that's just a small, maybe practical thing. And that could look different from person to person. But, man, what's coming to mind too right now is maybe you should write like a little sentence or a little note at the top of it to remind yourself, like, why you did this. Remember, Trev, the last time this happened? This is why we're doing it. Because this is stuff that needs to happen if you want to take steps in health. This is the way it impacts people you love and care about. This is how it makes them feel about, like, something to basically on ramp yourself back into. Okay, I remember why I put this in place. I remember why this is valuable. And that's just something I think that helps me to remind myself of things that are really difficult to do and maybe I don't want to do, but I know are best for me.

Yeah, a couple of tips that come to mind for me. I Think it's really helpful if you can tie the consequences to the behavior. And so, for example, a lot of the ones that I've heard or that I've used, it's like if I relapse using a certain device, I lose access to that device for a month. And if that's my cell phone, like, well, that's going to be a tough month. But that's part of what you may need to learn. If it's your a computer or a TV or maybe it's on a certain website that you'd have to cancel subscription to something or delete a profile. The direct tie to, if that's what you used or the place where the relapse occurred, then how do we directly tie a consequence to that? That's really helpful. The other thing I really encourage couples that are going through it, if you're the addicted or struggling spouse, to try to think through, what emotions do you create for your spouse, spouse when you relapse? Is it fear? Is it anger? Is it? And to think through, how can you willingly maybe put yourself in a situation where you have to feel some of those same things? Because that's the challenge. When we're the ones struggling, we feel our own guilt and shame. But it can be really hard for us to enter into the emotion of our spouse. And so this is an example I know I used in that podcast three years ago, but I have a friend who, as they were working through his plan, he recognized that when he would share a relapse, it would make his wife feel very trapped and like she was suffocating. And so they thought creatively about what might replicate that for him. And they had a project under their house with some pipes that needed work on. And so part of his recovery action plan was that if he relapsed, he had to spend a certain number of hours under the house in a trapped, confined space working on this project that he hated. But that was very tied to the behavior and the emotion his wife felt. So I'm obviously not advocating that anyone do something scary or dangerous or unsafe, but to think about that emotional side of, I've made my wife feel very vulnerable and alone. What is it that makes me feel that? So I enter into their pain and I remind myself, like, oh, this is what I'm doing. It's not just the behavior itself, it's the emotional impact. So to think through that. And then one piece of advice for a single group, a single person, is this is where you really need a group that you can make the Commitments to. Because you don't have a spouse that's being hurt or wounded. So I really encourage single group members to say to the group, like, if I choose to relapse, I'm making commitment to you, my group, that, like, I'm going to bring you my laptop. And I had a guy in group that I had to bring in his laptop and give it to another group member for a month. I'm going to donate 100 bucks to one of your charities or I'm buying, you know, $50 of pizza for the group or whatever it is so that they really feel that sense of, if I relapse, there is something, someone that I've made a commitment to that's engaged in this process with me. So it needs to be at least a couple of other people. But ideally a group that you're in that can then help keep you accountable. Because I think that's probably the struggle for a single person is they can feel like, well, I'm just making the commitments to myself and if I don't do it, the only one I let down is myself. And I'm already a let down to myself, so what's the big deal? And it can be hard to get traction. So that's where a group is so vital for the single person.

Yeah, I think that drives empathy.

Empathy.

When my, when I was single, my relapse pattern was that Christian, that typical. Like, you can see it in Christians a lot where it's, my relapse may have only been like once every six months or once every year I'd go out to the bar, ended up going home with somebody. And so it really did. I know, I've heard you talk about this, Nick. Like, oh, well, that was the last time. Like, I haven't relapsed in five months because I did that and I felt shame and I know it's wrong and I'm not ever going to do that again. And so that's why I feel like it's really important to have other people, especially as a single, because I always found myself in the same pattern until I ended up meeting John. And I would have never considered myself an addict. I would have never considered myself love or sex addict. But I needed outside perspective to see that that actually is your pattern that you overserve in church and you do these things and then you start to get loose on your boundaries. And I think a lot of times those logical consequences can also look like boundaries that, you know, as a single person, if I end up going home with somebody from the bar, then a logical consequence would be, I don't go to the bars. You know, I don't. I don't tell myself I can go and just dance and not drink. I don't tell myself that I can handle it this time, that that's actually something that I have as a logical consequence because I know that I can't handle that situation after relapse. And so just having friends and people that love you remind you of that when you're in that minimizing mindset is really important.

Yeah, so we've already kind of implied a bunch, but what are some pitfalls you guys would see when putting this together that you see that maybe you have done yourself and then maybe you've seen some of your group members do in the past?

As a group leader, what I see really practically or just, you know, as I'm leading, it seems so simple, is that people just don't take the time to do the plan. Well. This is such an important tool as, you know, a lot of our tools are that if this is the one you're going to pull out when everything's turned upside down and you just relapsed and you found that place you're in, that place that you never ever said you wanted to go again, you want to make sure that you do it really well. And so take the time, take the time to listen to the podcast that we just take the time to really print off the full version, to sit with each step and think through each step. A lot of times you can look at your faster scale and you can notice some of the behaviors that lead you to relapse in there. And those are helpful when you're doing your recovery action plan. Pray about it, ask others about each step and then be open to your group's feedback, be open to your leaders feedback. Just take the time to create a really good plan. And then the other stuff we talked about, you know, avoid just punitive punishments. You know that, you know, I'm gonna whip myself 50 times because I'm bad and I deserve that.

Right.

I'm just throwing one out there. But thinking of yourself as a person and I need to be punished. That is not where your mind should be when you're creating a plan. Your mind should be in what can I do to keep myself safe, to help me understand the weight of my consequences, how I hurt others, and how I can start rebuilding trust and sobriety.

That's good. I think some pitfalls I see are the extremes that people will choose on the one side Maybe being far too extreme of, like, if I relapse, I'll never use the Internet again. That's a noble thought that, like, you'd give it up forever. But I don't think that's gonna work in our world. And, like, maybe, let's say for two weeks, I can't use the Internet. Or, you know, be a little realistic. Don't just be that irrational extreme. But on the other side, there is that it's far too little that a spouse who maybe feels like, well, you know, if their spouse has struggled with affairs and they're maybe worried about offending them, or they've had a hard time figuring out how to find their voice and stand up and say, no, this isn't okay, that they might say, well, I'd ask him to sleep in another room for a couple of nights. And it's like, no, if you're working with affairs, you probably need to write down, it will be six months before we can consider sharing a room again, because we're going to need significant deep time with a counselor and to work through this, because those affairs, there's that level needed. And so it really is looking at the punishment needs to fit the crime in the one sense. Like, if it's a relapse that involved online pornography, that's where we say, what device was used, and how could we limit access to that for a period of time, couple weeks, couple of months, what seems appropriate? But as behaviors go up in stages, as they start to involve other people or for sure things that are unsafe or illegal, the kind of recovery action plan needed in those behaviors is going to need to be a lot more extreme. And that's where you know to go back to the need for others, Particularly if. If you're involved in a relationship where the behaviors are on the more extreme side of involving other people, you really need a counselor to walk through this with you, to be very specific to your needs, the history that you've been through as a couple. And so just avoiding those extremes, I think, is the pitfall. And then the other one I would mention is people who wait for their spouse to be on board to create a plan, which goes back to what Ashley was saying. This plan isn't for your spouse. This plan, first and foremost is for you. And so if you're the struggling spouse and you're married to someone who just does not want to engage in this, don't wait to make a plan. You need to decide for yourself and with your group, what are the steps I'll take if you are the one who's married to a struggler, and they're not willing to face their issues, but you're being hurt by it. This is a big part of how you can find your voice. Don't wait for them to start facing their pornography issue, for example. You need to draw some lines about what you are willing to put up within your relationship, and it's a way you can find your voice to say to them. If you choose to look at pornography, these are things I'm going to need because it makes me feel unsafe. It makes me feel like I can't trust you. I don't even know if you're thinking about me when we're together. I will need to see you follow these steps if you want us to have a physical or intimate relationship. And so you don't wait for them to be on board with you. You can approach this in grace and truth and in a way that isn't, like Ashley said, isn't just punitive. But you can't wait for them to be on board. Now, hopefully they will be on board, and when they are, you can add their plan into yours. But this is about what you need to begin rebuilding and recovering. So look at what you need and make the plan and hopefully your spouse will be on board soon.

Yeah, I think something that I struggle with, and it really is probably with every recovery tool, they're very easily. Can I can kind of slip into this comparison mindset like, oh, you were here on the faster scale this week. You must have had a better week than I did. Or, wow, your commitment to change is so much better than mine. Or, well, you really thought through your double bind a lot more than like, the same thing is true with this. And Ashley, you referenced it earlier, that this is something specific for you. This is a plan that you are putting place for you. And so I think that especially because if you're going through your first time through group, there still can be shame that you're dealing with. I mean, you could be 10 years into recovery and still deal with shame. But comparison can breed a lot of that shame. If you're like, well, yours is like, you're not doing things that are as extreme, that you're giving this away, or you're getting rid of a smartphone for a year or giving this amount of money, whatever it may be, I think that that really can create a lot of damage. And I think that you got to be really careful in group with that culture in general, that it's not a comparative thing, that it needs to be something that I'm catering something specifically to the needs of me in order to get to a place of health. And so just please don't compare because that's not helpful for anybody.

I think that's so good. Do not change your recovery action plan in that current crisis. Follow through with it and then reassess it. Like what you're saying, Nick. I think you were talking about how you may look at it and realize something needs to be changed or. No, it was you, Trevor. Like in the moment after relapse, you can see things so clear. That's not the time to change it, though. Follow through with it. And I even am guilty of that as a betrayed spouse, when I'm. I have two versions of my recovery action plan, an attic one and a betrayed one. So when I'm using my betrayed spouse recovery action plan, it can be really tempting, like, oh, it's fine. I don't need to really implement those consequences. He seems really sorry. But it's important for the. As a couple, for the addict or for the spouse or as an individual that you feel the weight. We've already talked about that, how important it is to feel the weight of your consequences, to see, to be able to visualize the effect it has. And so changing it in the moment is not a good idea. But maybe like a week or so after, or maybe three months after, that's a good time to sit down and reflect and say, what worked for us? Did anything change? Do we need to fix anything or adjust anything?

That's good.

Yeah. So we've been mentioning groups and other people being involved in this, but let's lean into that question a little bit more. How involved should others be? Like our group accountability partners, just people in our circle of friends. How involved should they be informing our recovery action plan?

So involved, but safe people. Safe people need to be involved. Not everybody. So you have your safe people, whether it's an accountability person or your group members or. For me, it's coworkers because I have awesome co workers who know everything about recovery, and they're just wonderful. And so even for me, who's somebody who's very outgoing and outspoken and I'm kind of wearing my heart on my sleeve. And people usually know what's going on with me when I'm in trauma or after a shame experience, whether it's lashing out on my kids or relapsing or whatever it may be, I still, My survival brain wants to protect and hide. And so I know that at least if I can Text. And the last time I had an experience of feeling shame and hurt, I told myself, if I can just text my two people and say, I am not in a good place, I don't want to talk about it right now, but I need you to know that I'm not in a good place. And that was probably the best thing I could have decided to do for myself. That you don't necessarily have to go share everything with everybody right away. But if people already know your plan, already know your struggles, already know your relapse, already know your betrayal trauma, when you text them and say, I'm going to need to talk about the recovery action plan, or I'm not in a good place, and you just give them even that much, they know to check in on you. They know to come to your side and encourage you the way you need, because it's. You're. You're working out of an emotional brain at that state. And so, like, I don't know if it really could work without others around you, honestly, because you wouldn't be in that place if your brain was functioning and firing on all cylinders in the first place. And so the fact that you're even in that place of relapse shows that you're not using your upper thinking, you're not using your logical, rational reasoning part of your brain. And so you need others to help you look at this with a clear lens.

Yeah, I think that that's especially as you're first initially crafting this. So let's say you're married. You may not have, like, your spouse is not in group with you, so your spouse may not be able to recall all the conversations that you've had in group, but your group members can. And so as you're crafting this and putting this together, allow them to speak into it and ask questions, because they're going to see some things and make connections. I mean, some of the, some of the really big breakthroughs that I've had have come from someone asking a question about me and me having to maneuver through that or me hearing someone else share and me making connections. And so that doesn't happen outside of relationship or group. And so if you're initially crafting your recovery action plan, let people see it, because they're gonna be like, you know what? You made that excuse two weeks ago about not using Instagram, and now you have it on your phone again, and it's not on your recovery action plan. How come? Like, that's a good question for a group member to ask. And that's gonna really help you develop a recovery action plan that's gonna work.

Yeah. In this area, I always say, this is something you can copy off your neighbor that they list something like, well, that's a great idea. Add it to your plan. I do think involvement of others and community is what I would think of as phase two. Because phase one really needs to be you getting honest with yourself and talking through. I want to own my issues and be willing to state, here's what I'm willing to do because of the ownership that creates for you to say, this is my plan. If you go to others first and just say, hey, what should I do? It will be easy for you to feel when you're struggling, like, this is something other people are making you do. And like, well, I don't want to do it. And it really wasn't my idea and my spouse or my group told me so. Phase one is you look at it and decide what you're willing to do. Because then you're saying to people, this is something I'm owning. And then phase two is, what do you think? What should I add? What am I missing? And then the other part of where community is involved is something on your recovery action plan should require you going to other people. And I've said this before, if you can do everything on your recovery action plan by yourself, it's not a very good plan because it's going to keep you in isolation and just in that I'm going to fix this by myself kind of mode. So some of your recovery action plan needs to be, how do I go to my group? Who do I need to confess to? Who's. If I'm the betrayed spouse, who's a safe person or people I can go to to process with? Because I think for a lot of spouses, they have that desire to, like, run, to get away, to escape. And they need to know, who can I escape to that is safe and healthy so that I don't end up in an unhealthy place like a bar or somewhere else where I'm just vulnerable and alone. So stating where will I be involved with community in my recovery is a crucial aspect of how other people are involved as well. That's good.

So we've already established that the recovery action plan can change over time. But my question is, how does it change? Or how have you seen it change? And when do you guys suggest it can change?

Yeah, this is really good because I've lived through all this, as I'm sure you guys have, being in Recovery for so long that you may realize, let's say a year down the road, you pull out your recovery action plan. Again, you haven't used it in a year. And it's saying, we sleep separately for three months and we get intensive counseling. And that just may not be as applicable. A year down the road, you may be able to just go to the people you've already established accountability with. You may be able to look at your situation for the spouse. If you have a spouse, they may be able to bounce back and recover. Because I know the first time I found out about addictions in my marriage and lies, it was like, we've talked about this. Every trauma from my whole entire life had come out. And so I was like this crazy, paralyzed, weirdo, crazy person. And it took me months to get stabilized because I hadn't dealt with my past trauma. And so everything was linked together. Whereas now it really is more about the isolated incident that just happened. And I'm able to look through it with a little bit of a healthier lens and saying, okay, I can see how these behaviors led to this relapse. And so let's backtrack and figure out what behaviors maybe we shouldn't do anymore so that we don't go there again, or what do I need to do to recover? It's not me processing my whole entire childhood after this relapse. And so that could be what it looks like. It could be that you've had some sobriety, and then there's another relapse, and so you're dealing with, okay, do we need to go way back and start some of this process back a little bit to see how we got in this pattern again? But like I said before, you don't want to do that in the moment, because in the moment, you're still feeling really emotional and raw. You want to be able to do that with healthy, safe people who can help you look in on the situation after things have calmed down again. Perhaps a spouse realizes that the addiction is not about them. They've got to that point where they realize, this is not about me. This is about a way of acting out and medicating pain or hurt. And so you're able to just recover from that faster than you would have in the beginning. For me, my recovery action plan has changed in. I don't act out sexually anymore, but I definitely act out in anger, which before anger was the precursor to acting out sexually. And now that's acting out sexually. Yeah, of course, I still don't want to do that. But anger is more my focus now. And so that's usually what I'm focused on in a faster scale. And so that would become my relapse. And then the consequences would look different, like, how do I hurt people when I lash out in anger, how do I hurt my children, how do I hurt my husband? And what are the things that lead me there? I love watching TV late at night. I'm a night owl. But also that makes me tired, which makes me more vulnerable to anger. And so that may be a consequence for me that I don't get to watch TV at nighttime this month because I'm not doing good with controlling, getting to bed on time and getting a proper amount of sleep, which then makes me lash out and also binge eat the next day. And so it can change that way too, that your inner circles on your three circles exercise become your or your middle circles become your inner circle. And so you're just continuingly continuously getting healthier as you go along.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. To really tie this to your three circles plan, and we recommend that you review that at least every six months, even if you're in a healthy place. So if you're listening and haven't relapsed in a long time, at least every six months, you should be pulling this out, reading through it, asking, is this still what I'm committed to? Is there anything I should change? Having your spouse do that as well? Because it's part of our ongoing awareness of I'm still a human being that is susceptible and I need to know what I've committed to and be aware of that. On the other side, if relapses are occurring, I would really suggest after any and every relapse, you evaluate the plan. And like Ashley said, you know, probably trying to be between two to four weeks past the relapse, where there's been maybe a return of some stability, some steps being taken to look at it and go, did this work? Was it effective? Why or why not? What was too much? What was too little and as much as possible, you know, if you're in a good place as a couple to have this conversation to do that together. But if the relationship is extremely strained and that's just going to be way too triggering, at a minimum, doing it with a fellow group member to go, well, here's what I think is working, here's what's not, and then taking some of those things to your spouse to say, here's some changes I think we need to make, because that really is the time, as you were saying, Trevor, that a relapse brings clarity. And so capitalizing on that clarity to say what needs to be added or changed here can really give you a stronger plan moving forward. So I think after any relapse, once you're kind of through the emotional tidal wave of it and the ups and downs, that can happen. And everyone is different, every couple is different. But I think everyone can kind of feel when, hey, we're starting to find some new footing, then that's the time to, okay, let's look at the plan and talk about what did or didn't work.

Yeah, I just don't think you should make changes by yourself ever to this. I mean, we talked about that with the three circles. Talk about this, too. Don't make changes. And maybe you guys already said this. We just had a newborn, so sometimes I've been checking out the last few days, but I just, I think that it's not something you should ever do. Making changes to your recovery action plan alone.

Yeah.

So this is such a vital tool. It's one that we recommend for every single person in a recovery group, whether they're the one struggling or the spouse. So as listeners, consider this, and some are, you know, they've probably been processing the last 45 minutes with us. Okay, here's what I need to update. Here's what I need to work on. But others are thinking, okay, I've got to go start this. This is a process I've put off or not heard about. I'm going to go lean into it. What final tips or advice would we want to give to listeners today?

1. Have one. If you don't have one right now, you can have one. These tools, this recovery action plan is not even in our current books. It's something that's on our website and podcasts, and you can print it free. If you're a single person, married person, even newly separated or divorced. We have a section that addresses that, that if you don't have one, you're listening to this, have one. Just get one and create it and share it with some healthy people. The other point would be to use it that you have it out. And when relapse happens. That should be the first question is, what's on my recovery action plan? I know that some of the best things that my friends have done for me when I'm in relapse or suffering the effects of somebody else's relapse, they'll say, what's in a recovery action plan? I know this is not where you want to be. But now we don't need to stay stuck there. And you need to start doing the things to get out of this so that you don't pile harm onto yourself. And so use it and understand that we all deserve respect and dignity and care and boundaries, whether you're a single person or married. And so just look at it as that, like, what would you do for somebody else if they were in a situation? How would you tell them to take care of themselves? And how would you tell them to respond? Sometimes we need to look at it that way, that what would I tell my friend to do in this situation? Situation. Because we don't tend to take care of ourselves as well after we've experienced a relapse or betrayal.

Yep. I think of this. This is just the visual that comes to mind. And maybe that's. It's, I don't know, shameful for some people, but for me, I look at tools like this as, like the bumpers on a bowling lane, that it helps me continue forward in the right direction. And that way I don't go into the gutter again. And so if you are the type of bowler that needs to use those for long term, that's fine. No shame whatsoever. But I just think that we need to understand that this is not a killjoy, that this is actually a give joy. This is a give life type of tool that it's headed. It's really put together to help us head toward healing and recovery and health and change. And so just that idea of view it as something that's helping you move in the right direction, because as you're setting one up, and maybe after that first relapse or that second one, it's like, this is stupid. Why am I doing this? Just remember, this is something that's helping you make the changes that you want to make. You decided these are changes you want to make. This is something you put in place to try to help you get there. And if you put it into place, it will. You will get there.

Yeah. Well, the sobering reality and your bowling analogy is the gutters we're talking about can ruin relationships, they can ruin marriages, they can ruin families, they can ruin careers. And sometimes our mindset can be, oh, I went in the gutter, I'll just pick up a new ball and throw it again, and we'll be fine. Like, that was our addictive mindset that just thought we'd have an infinite number of chances to stay in our lane. Where the truth is, the gutters could be life altering. And so that's one of my tips at the end here is just say keep in front of you what's at stake. That's why we're doing this. It's not just, I'm trying to get a little bit healthier. I'm just trying to lose a couple of pounds. It's like I'm trying to make sure that I keep my family and my marriage and my faith. And there's a lot at stake. And so if we keep that in mind, we'll do, I think, have the energy we need to bring into this process. And then the other thing, I just would encourage everyone, as you walk through it, to take a deep breath and remind yourself that it's more art than science. Because I hear a lot of people that can feel like, oh, am I doing this right? Or we don't know if it's 100% accurate or if it's exactly what we need. It's like, it's not a science. There's no, like, perfect recovery action plan that can prevent all pain and just make it easy. It's like you're implementing a tool for something that it's messy and every time is different and it's emotional. And so there's not a perfect 100% solution plan, but it's this art form. As Ashley said, have a plan and work the plan because it's a whole lot better than having nothing. And that's what a lot of people and couples honestly have is nothing. But, well, I'm going to try harder not to do it again. And as we all know, that doesn't work. So take that deep breath and just say, what could work? What are some ideas I have? And. And even if they don't feel right on or 100%, it's art and you're starting to work through it. And that's a big part of what's going to help you heal and grow. And so just get started. Remove that pressure of doing it perfectly and trust that God's going to meet you along the way as you begin to implement this plan.

The recovery action plan can be one of, if not the most important tool in our recovery toolkit. You know, enter Batman and his tool belt in here. This lays out the clear plan for if relapse happens and allows really the individual or couple to know what steps they need to take to get back on the road to health. So if you are using this, keep using it. Don't stop if you're not. This needs to be an essential tool for your recovery and your healing. Any single, any couple, anybody on the healing journey. Ashley, we had you on with the first one and now we have you on with the second one for the recovery action plan. Thanks for just all that you do.

Really excited to be here and to hear how many people are going to now go make a recovery action plan.

Also, have fun kayaking.

Right? You're finally done. Wherever you're at on your journey, just know pure desire is here to help give you the road map of healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to PureDesire.org and start your healing journey today. And if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do it. It's free. Share it with your friends and family, rat or you and help others find the podcast. And lastly, never stop being healthy.