159 - Sexual Integrity 101

You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast. Your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. Hello. Hello. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you are listening to episode 159 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here joining me as always, is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Luke, I am your father.

No. Oh, man. And then his arm gets cut off and then it's just bad. So I feel like it's one of those things where we all wish we had James Earl Jones's voice.

Yes. You know, I actually got to meet James Earl Jones. Shake his hand, by the way, his hand is ginormous.

I believe it.

Got to shake his hand. I was a high schooler at this event and he was like the mc and I just said, you know, thanks for coming tonight. And he said, thank you and congratulations because it was an honor to be there. Like, so cool.

Darth Vader just told me. If you don't know listener what Nick was doing in the intro, I just.

We don't blame. Nobody knows what I'm doing in the intro.

I mean, I've got nothing for you.

And it's cool because my son's name is Luke, so it's not uncommon around our house to say, luke, I am your father. And my boys love Star Wars. So it just gets better and better.

You know, it does get better. I mean, unlike the Star wars saga, it doesn't always get better and better. Sometimes it takes a step back. Okay, so you gotta go back to go forward sometimes. But we went back and went backwards with the first original and then. Or not the originals, but the three after. Anyways, that's not what today's episode is about. A few things. Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't. Just don't wait any longer. Just do it. We're on all the major platforms. And listen, if you'd like to subscribe on all of those major platforms, by all means, that's great. Do it. Also, follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Your DesirePDMI. And if you like to consume video content, we do have clips of the episode up on YouTube. Just search Pure Desire Ministries. Okay, Coming this fall, first ever dum dum dum. Right? Which wish this had the like Star wars scroll and we had the, you know, John Williams. John Williams. Yes, John Williams. Justin, I'm looking at you. Our producer. Is that the composer for Star Wars?

Sounds. Right.

Okay, I got a shoulder shrug. Anyways, that was a terrible lead in. Thanks a lot, guys. We're talking about the Pure Desire Summit.

Yes. And if you do follow us on social media, we want you to know the summit is for you because we're designing it specifically with all of our friends, fans and family in mind. Like it's just a gathering point for those that appreciate what we do have been impacted. Whether it's your own story or someone you care about, we just want to continue to create healthy conversations around this topic of sexual integrity. And what does it look like to really make this happen in our churches and in our homes? And so if you've been a part of that world with us, gather together, be encouraged, whether you're joining online virtually or in person on National Take Friday off day, that's what we want you to do because it is all day Friday, all day Saturday. And we look forward to what promises to be a really, really great weekend.

Yep, it is going to be great. And we've got so many cool things we're going to talk about. Okay, so. And just for everyone to know, I just looked up on IMDb it is John Williams.

Way to go, man.

So good. Thank you, Internet Movie Database. Okay, so what we did is this is, I'm super, super excited about what we talked about on today's episode. We are talking about really the first ever video course that Pure Desire has done. An eight week study for men, women and churches called sexual integrity 101.

Yeah. And I'd say for listeners, they're like, oh, this is a podcast about their video course. Well, I don't know if that'll, if there'll be anything in it. For me, really what this turned into in my mind was a conversation just about healthy sexuality and how do we start those conversations. And yes, we're super excited about the role we think the video course can play in that and an introduction to sexual integrity, just how that can help so many people. But what I loved in our conversation just was why this is important. And I think every listener is going to get a lot out of this because it will help empower them to be a part of that conversation, whether in their marriage, their friendships, their, you know, as parents. So there's a ton in here. But also people hear about why we're so excited about Sexual Integrity. One on one, the video course coming out.

And we had Heather Kolb, who's one of our speakers in the course, on with us. And yeah, just listen. It's a good one. Enjoy. Heather, it's been a while, but you're back.

Nice to be here.

Yes, we're glad to have you thanks.

In office, in person.

I know, I know at the time of this recording we might be risking it. I don't, I'm not really sure. It depends on where you stand. But that's a political statement that we're not going to touch anymore.

So it shouldn't be political.

Right. But it can be for sure.

Unfortunately, yes.

So in the intro we mentioned how excited we are to release this eight week course, Sexual Integrity 101. And it's men, women, churches, but let's kind of explain more of what this video course is.

Yeah. You know, for a number of years we've been doing a weekend conference called the Pure Desire Conference, or some may know it as the Pure Desire University. And it was really meant to be an introduction to these topics of sexual integrity. Helping people understand addiction and the neurochemistry of the brain and how shame works and, and just trying to help educate and equip people. But we tried a lot of different ways to promote the event and describe it. And it, it seemed like in spite of that, still fear that, well, this is only for people who struggle. And so of course if you do struggle, you probably don't want to come to an in person, live event because it feels like admitting guilt and that's awkward. And for people who didn't struggle, they maybe felt like, well, it's not for me. And even though we felt like we marketed it really well, there was still that misconception. And yet what we would hear from people at the events, and you guys know, because you read the same kind of feedback I would, that they would just say over and over, this was so good. This is valuable. Every person needs to hear this. I wish my whole church had been here. I wish my family had come, my small group. And we just kept hearing that over and over. And so for our team, it was kind of that point of reckoning to say, okay, we recognize the information and the product is something people need, but the delivery system isn't connecting as well as we think it could. And so that was the feeling that if we could put this into a video course option, whether people stream it on their computer or get DVDs, they could, that they could watch it in a much greater variety of places. You know, from the comfort of their own home or with a small group of friends or people that are going through the same kind of process that just want to learn and be equipped so that whether it is something that they struggle with or not, there would be a little more freedom to, to embrace this information. And that's really what the course is is an introduction to sexual integrity and how to navigate all the craziness of the modern world and what's going on in our brain and, and whether it's our issue or someone around us, we just know the reality is that in this world and in this day and age, every single person is being impacted by sexual brokenness, either in them or around them. And so we feel like this is a way we can get that information into the hands and homes and hearts of people in a very effective way. And so we're really excited to have it coming out.

Hands and hearts and homes. That's right.

That's pastoral.

That's right.

That was on the spot, by the way. I did not write that down.

Super good. I mean, so Heather, you were, you're a speaker in it as well and you sat through all of it. So how would you, I mean, how would you describe it?

I think that it was taking the very best of what we do at the conference or at the university and putting it into kind of like bite sized pieces for people and then even breaking down a little bit more of what we normally would talk about. But over the weekend we didn't have enough time to kind of do a deep dive on stuff. And so I think that that's another thing that it allowed us to do is take some of these ideas and press into them a little bit more, which was really good.

Yeah.

And I mean if you think about, if you have gone to a Pure Desire conference or pdu and I've been to many of them, it's a two day conference. And so you get Friday, you get Friday night, which is good. And you two are the ones who usually speak those sessions. And then you come back Saturday and we, we crushed the whole day Saturday. This is something that, like that, I like that idea, that bite size because it, it spreads it out over a couple months. But then also what's new is that there's a workbook that goes with this that you'll have time after each session to reflect and then if you feel comfortable, discuss as a group, if you're watching it with other people. And there's actually work that you can do in between each session. So you've got weekly work that you'll do that helps you kind of engage with it. Cause that's the hard part about a two day conference is you don't have a lot of time. Like by the time you get home Friday night, especially after your first session on the Brain, it's just like, okay, I need to just lay down like I don't even know how to handle this stuff. You don't have a lot of energy to put in work. And so it's this idea that we're creating space for you to consume the content but also interact with it throughout the week.

Yeah, when we heard that from a lot of people that it felt like drinking from a fire hose, it just, it's so much information and for a lot of people this will be new information when you start talking about the neurochemistry of addiction and what's happening in our brain and the, the actual impact of shame and how do identify the wounds and trauma that have maybe created pockets of shame and lies. And it, it's a lot to absorb. And so in the, the video course sessions, the ability to, you know, to pause or to watch it again or for a lot of people they'll maybe go through it with a group that's doing one video a week and being able to use the workbook and process some of their own stuff. And what they're learning. I think it really then is something people can digest in the kind of bite sized pieces and there may still be people that will watch it all in a weekend, but even then the parts that really impacted them, they'll be able to go back and just keep absorbing. So I think that'll be a great value of the course as well.

Yeah, absolutely.

So the subtitle suggests that this is for men, women and churches. So how does that work? Is this mainly for people who struggle? Is it mainly for spouses? Who would we recommend really views this video course?

You know, I love that question because even jumping off what you had mentioned earlier about how we'd go and we'd do the conference and then people said, oh, I wish this person was here, I wish this person was here. And it really is for everyone. It's for the person who struggles, it's for the spouse who's experienced betrayal. It's for people who really just want their own education about this because either they're a parent or they're a mental health professional or somebody else who really wants to help other people. But I can't think of maybe children. It wouldn't necessarily be for them, but it certainly would be for parents who want to get healthy first and then, and then be able to live out their sexuality in a healthy way in their home. And, and so really I think it is for everyone. Even when you look at the way that it could impact your relationships, you know, just having a healthy Relationship. What does that look like? And. And if I'm healthy in all of these different areas, then how is that going to change the way I behave in relationships? So I think that's huge.

Yeah. In the first session, and you've already mentioned a piece of it, that we're all impacted by sexual brokenness, unwanted sexual behavior, sexuality being distorted from God's design. All of us are. And you say that in the course and it's that idea of whether you struggle, whether you are affected by or whether you see someone who's struggling with it. This stuff is for you. Like, it genuinely is. And it's really cool. There's a section and I'll just. Here's a little glimpse, I guess. Julie Slattery, a friend of ours, an expert that is in the video course, talks about how we're actually all sexually broken. And before you like turn this episode off and are triggered by that, what I mean is, and what she says is that we all are impacted or affected. Sexual anorexia, a dis. A disliking of sex or feeling like it's dirty or wrong. Any really misconception when it comes to the role of sexuality in our lives is a form of sexual brokenness. And so it's one of those things where maybe you don't struggle and maybe you are betrayed. This is something you can watch. Maybe you do struggle and have never experienced betrayal. This is for you. Maybe you're someone who's both. This is still for you, you know, and this is, I think, one of my favorite. It's funny, I don't even know that this is hap. This hasn't happened yet, but it's already my favorite thing about it is there are going to be people who watch this course who have not experienced betrayal in this area. And really this isn't their area of struggle yet. They're going to take this information and they're going to push this message forward and help other people break free because of it. I think it's going to be awesome.

Yeah, well, it's kind of like asking the question, who would benefit from a study on anger or who would benefit from a study on anxiety?

I'm raising my hand for those that.

Can'T probably, if you're a human being, you'd probably benefit from that because it's a common human experience to have anger or anxiety. And so in that same vein, just what you're saying, Trevor, it's a common experience that we are all sexual beings. And the truth is there are just very few Resources available to us that help us understand and think through what does it mean that I'm a sexual being? And interacting in a world with a lot of other people that are sexual beings that don't really have maturity in their thinking and wisdom there. And so because there's a lack of resources, this, this is just so needed. No one is really training us how to pursue Christ through and in our sexuality. And so maybe we learned about the biology of sex in school or anatomy and the reproductive systems, but there's a whole lot more to our sexuality than anatomy and biology. It's like, what is actually happening in my thinking and my emotions and what was I made for and what's God's purpose in this? So it really does get into all of those larger questions that again, if you're a human being who was born into a world with body parts and a gender like this is going to be insightful. And so we want everyone to be able to have access to that information.

Yeah, it is very exciting to think about. So what really is it this course going to cover?

So again, if you've gone to a peer to desire conference, this will sound familiar, but we have kind of redone and created a new first session. I was kind of walking through the sessions and kind of a brief description. The first one is going to be titled different than Expected. And this is really looking at the reality of sexual brokenness in the world and in the church and really understanding that the solution to unwanted sexual behavior is also different than we expect. We think pray harder, love Jesus more, serve more in the church. You know, accountability, all these. Right. Like, you know, which if you've gone to a pdc, that's the saddest part about this course is we can't have that video in this course. But it's just different than we expect. The problem is more prevalent than we thought and the solution is different than we expect. The second one is culture of grace. And Bob Vandermeer teaches that. One, it's really an understanding of guilt and shame and how that plays out in catering to or really facilitating unwanted sexual behavior. The third one is revisiting our past. And this is where we kind of break it up. From the renewing of the mind. One and two, from the PDC revisiting our past. We look at how much trauma we carry with us in our brain and how we go through life and how it impacts us and our wanted behavior. And then the fourth session, we look at the addicted brain. We look at what that looks like. But then Also we look at four ways to renew your mind. What Romans 12:2 talks about. I'm the host, by the way, and the MC of the course, which is why I have these. Yeah, I literally just recorded this yesterday. And then the fifth session is Tools for Sobriety. We look at two tools specifically for developing sobriety. Arousal template and three circles. And then we get to hear from Ashley Jameson. She does two sessions, the six ones need for community. Talk about what groups we offer for those who struggle, those betrayed. And then also some of the tools that we use in group that helps with recovery and healing. Then we'll look at relationships and recovery in session seven, which is how all this stuff impacts our relationships, what it means to rebuild trust, healthy versus unhealthy sexuality. And then the last one, we talk about healing woundedness. Bob comes back for that one and teaches on really how our trauma and our wounds, once we're able to process them, actually equip us to help people even more and becomes a ministry for us. So I feel pretty good about that description. I just went through eight sessions pretty quick.

Well done. Yeah, I think it's important to point out that this is really aimed at being an reduction. So if someone's listening, they feel like, well, I don't really know much about pure desire. Well, great. That's why we made the course. Or I've never been in a group or I don't really understand the brain and addiction. Like, awesome. We designed it with you in mind. It's meant to be equipping and educating. So it's really for us, kind of a front porch, front door kind of event to say, just come and sit on the front porch with us and let's talk about this. Let's learn together. And so wherever someone is at in their journey, I think it'll be really appropriate to watch because even if we're maybe several years down the road in our healing and recovery, there's still going to be tremendous insights for what's going on and maybe what God is leading you into next. And for someone that hasn't even started their journey, this will just help them understand and frame the whole area in a new way that I really think will be powerful.

Yeah, I think that too. The misconception that a lot of people think is that when we're talking about, you know, unwanted sexual behavior, that we're talking about sex specifically. And really through this video course, going to help people understand that this really isn't about sex. It's about past pain and. And trauma and woundedness. And how we get healthy in our core so that then we can live out healthy sexuality.

Yeah, I think another thing to mention, and we may get to this again later in the episode too, but it actually does help you with more than just your unwanted sexual behavior if you have it. I think that it also helps you with your, your social media use, how you view food, anything that you really could use to numb out. It really is something that benefits you and creates really a game plan or a trajectory for health in all areas of life. So I think that that's another thing.

That stands out or any kind of unwanted behavior. I mean, people that come to our conference say, you know, this is the same pattern. Whether my go to is anger or drinking or food or shopping. Like it's a lot of the same systems happening in our bodies and in our brains. And so that's what I think people took away from it. Just saying this is why everybody needs to hear it. Because we all do this as human beings. And whether our specific go to is sexual or pornography or something else, we go through the same pattern. And when we can all see it and develop that same language to talk about it, it just creates some really incredibly healthy conversations around our recovery.

Yeah, so what makes this, and I mean what's cool is that like we've gone to these events, we put on these events. You guys have been speakers at these events for a long time. In you guys opinion and your experience, what makes this content and this video course stand out or so unique?

So I think that one of the things, and this is just a basis for pure desire is that is that when Dr. Ted started this ministry that he took science and statistical data and he laid it over a foundation of biblical truth, which I think is really unique to our ministry to begin with. And just using, you know, this is really what's happening in your brain. This is the psychology behind it. And but here's what the Bible says about it too. And so I think that that makes it unique. And I also think that this video course applies to people. If you're married, if you're single, if you're a teen, if you're 75, you know what I mean? It, it really spans this gamut of, you know, for men and for women, for men and women who struggle with their own addiction, for men and women who have experienced betrayal. You know, it really is unique in that way because we're not just talking to an audience of men because that used to be the idea that only men struggle. And so now that we can like broaden that gate and say, really, this is for everyone who could struggle or who could be betrayed or like you said, both. So, yeah, yeah.

I think it's acknowledging that science and scripture don't have to be in competition. It's not an either or. And you'll hear us say this in the video course that we're discussing the way God designed the brain and how sin or Satan hijack those systems and direct us towards evil purposes. But it's putting those things together that's so powerful. And the other thing that comes to mind for me is I would use the word holistic and three Hs. Again, it involves our head, our hands, and our hearts. So we look at in our head, how do we need to adjust our thinking, but also into our hearts and our believing, and what are we operating off of at that deeper level? And then also the hands we do need to discuss our behaviors and. And the really practical stuff, like how do I use my cell phone or my TV or the Internet? And the combination of those three components, I think, is really what makes it effective in terms of helping people see a healing path. Because if we only do work in one or two of those areas and the other is left unaddressed, that's usually what will end up tripping someone up. So it's that holistic nature that people are going to hear about.

Yeah. I think a couple other things are that every single person in this course has been impacted and has had to process through this specific every. Because we have our speakers, we have couples and some individuals that have come and shared their testimony, and there's some of their story. And also we have experts. And so there is this thing where we've all been through this to a degree. We're not just these talking heads that have learned a lot of stuff from books and are now, you know, distributing it to you. No, like, this is our experience, this is our life that we've gone through. And so there's that. And then two, let's be honest, there are not very many female voices that speak on this issue. And so this is something that not only do we have multiple voices speaking as experts, but we also have multiple voices speaking as our speakers in the course. Right, exactly. So it's something that we're. We're really presenting it, that this is a people issue. People struggle with this. Not just man, not just woman. People do. And I think that that's also what makes it unique.

Yeah.

So why would we encourage men and women and churches to go through this.

Video Course, yeah, that's a great question. Because it is, it's an investment of our time and energy. And honestly, it's a topic that for some people it's just, it's easier not to, right? Like, let's talk about money or relationships, but sex and sexuality, it's like, ugh. But I would go back to what we said about that we were all born sexual beings, designed by God that way. And it's interesting to me to think about how fundamental that is to who we are as people. That before you had a name, your parents knew your gender. And gender is all about body parts and brain chemistry and sexual reproductive functioning. And so it's deeply personal to who we are. And we think about then that if we are also all born into a fallen, sinful world, our sexuality has been impacted by that. Whether we remembered or not, whether it was things we did or things done to us, like, that's just part of living in a fallen world. So what that means, the way I think about it is everything else in our life is downstream of our sexuality, meaning it goes through the grid of how we see our life and our sexuality. And so it impacts everything else. And what that means is if there are pockets of shame there or there are places of immaturity or of brokenness, of sin, of choices we've made, it is impacting everything else because of how fundamental it is to our sense of identity and of self. But the exciting thing is then that as we get healthy in our sexuality, as we develop maturity and replace the shame with grace in a positive way, it impacts everything else too. So even for the person that says, well, I don't struggle with, you know, pornography or I don't, I don't have those issues, the recognition that, but I am still a sexual being and maybe I grew up in environments that never taught me how to think about this in a God centered kind of way, I think it's going to be deeply revealing. They see, oh, I have been impacted. And if they can get healthy, it's going to really make a positive impact in their relationships, their career, you know, what God is calling them to. So, yeah, that's what excites me.

Yeah. And I think if you look at the reality of how many people right now, statistically, and I mean, look it up like Barna, Josh McDowell, the porn phenomenon Covenant Eyes, has done a lot of research for people specifically in the church. If you look at it, there's a high percentage of men and women that are struggling in the church, high percentage of pastors that struggle or have struggled. And I think that you have to get to the point where. And this is the way, and I can't remember one of you told me this at one point, I think, but the idea that if you knew that 70% of people in your church struggled with cocaine, then you would have a program for those who struggle with cocaine. And so the, the difference though, because it says that it's like 67 to 70% of men in the church struggle in this area and 30 to 35% of women. And we think that that actually percentage is growing. Then the thought that you don't have a program is crazy. And when you put it on, well, you've got. What about sexual addiction? You've got all these people with cocaine. Sure, I'll go do it. So I think with that, here's the interesting distinction. No one is born an addict to cocaine, but everyone is born sexual. And so there is this almost predisposition that this may be something that they're impacted by. That brokenness may jump into their life and especially with the, with the statistics now. So I think that the first thing is everyone should go through this because like so many people, if not everyone is somehow impacted by this. The second thing is, is that because of Dr. Ted and Diane, because of so many people over the last few decades, we're experts on this stuff. And what's cool is you can let us start the conversation. There's not an easy way to walk into a room where sex or sexuality or brokenness has ever been talked about and be like, so we're going to talk about porn, we're going to talk about betrayal. Let's do this. Everyone just be like, oh, like did you just hit cocaine before you got on stage? Like, I don't understand. Oh man, look at the time. So I think that what's cool is this cool course can really act as the one who introduces this topic or introduce this conversation in a way that then you allow the course to teach and the course to facilitate conversation. And then your job then as a leader or man or woman or a pastor in the church is then make sure that you have follow up with groups or with counseling or with Bible studies, something to address this topic. And so I think that that's, that's where more the focus is, where you can allow this to really be what it is, a one on one.

That's so great because I think that we've seen even in recent research that young people, they are very ready and willing to talk about sex. And it's one of those things that if the older people in the church were better equipped to have that conversation and create this safe place where it was okay and that there wasn't judgment and there wasn't shame, and let's just have this conversation about who we are and. And how we live that out. I think that that is so healthy. And even for women, you know, women who struggle with their own issues, with pornography or fantasy or masturbation, and to give them a safe place to. Let's start. That conversation, I think, is going to be so empowering for individuals and really the church as a whole.

Yeah, I think that's so spot on. That particularly for, like, millennials and younger, this has just been part of their reality from day one with the Internet and smartphones and, like, it's just part of what they've had to navigate. But I think they can look at older generations and feel like we never talk about this. Like, it's everywhere in my culture and in music and media, but I go to church and they can hardly even say the word sex, let alone have a mature conversation about it. And I fear that it does lead a lot of young people to feel like the church is irrelevant and out of touch, because something that's deeply impacting them, they don't get any direction on in the church. And so we've just seen how helpful this can be for parents and others that want to understand, what are my teenage kids, what are my grade school kids facing and hearing, and how do I equip them to navigate their world with health and not just say, well, I guess you learn from your mistakes like I did. And I mean, that's not a helpful attitude to just say, well, they'll figure it out. Like, we need to be the ones if we're in those older generations. And I know you're not, Trevor, but, you know, Heather and I can embrace that, that if we're in those older generations, we say we've got to be the ones that lead the way and make it okay to have these conversations. So, yeah, I just. I love how you said that, Heather.

It's such a cool culture shift, too, when. Because you've just told me I'm not one of the older generations, which is true.

Not yet.

Not yet.

I mean, it's coming, but eventually.

Yeah, let's not talk about it. But one of the cool things is that when you see someone like, I've seen just experienced, you know, men who are in their 50s and their 60s who make this shift in their thinking and Start to address this area. And honestly, that's more inspiring to me than someone who's my age who's broken free or starting to get healthy. Because it's like you've had this way of thinking for so long, yet you had the courage to still make this change in this shift and allow the Lord to work in you. Like, that's amazing. That makes me feel like when I get to your age at 65, whatever, I also want to be someone who's able to see things and make adjustments in life. And I think that culturally that is going to do a lot in a church and then just in the Christian culture in general. So when, when churches or men or women, families, homes, groups, you name it, go through this course. You've already mentioned it, Nick. That it really is just an introduction. So what would you guys say are next steps? Like, do we just watch it and then watch it again and then watch it again? Or are there other things we'd push people to after the course?

Yeah, I think the classic answer to that question is it depends. You know, it depends where you're at in life.

You heard it here first, people.

It's kind of a, in a healthy way, a choose your own adventure in terms of if, if your parents that are going through it, what's next for you? Maybe to, to engage deeper with your kids in, in doing a workbook together or a study or just engaging that conversation. If you're a part of a church leadership team or a group that, that could start groups in your church, that would be a huge win for us to see churches embracing this and saying, boy, we, we actually want to start these groups for men and for women. So that might be if you, Peter, and if you're a man or woman going through it, this course might reveal, well, I've got more work to do here than I thought. There's things that I could really grow and learn in. And there are opportunities then to engage in a next level group with pure desires material, we hope. But you know, we know there's other possible studies out there as well, but that for some may be the next step to deal more significantly with their struggles or their trauma and the pain they've experienced and just to find a way into health. Because eight weeks is a great start. But as we'll talk about in the course itself, if eight weeks is all we do, we're probably just going to end up back in the old behaviors or the old patterns of shame or of feeling stuck in that trauma. But if we can see the Light and the place this could lead us to. Those next steps might be deeper engagement with a group that would take us to that next step. So it depends where you're at, but I really think everyone will see something that could apply to them in taking some next steps.

Yeah. And it could be something, too. Like you said, that it really does depend on where you're at, because we've seen that a lot through the conference. You know, that we talk about stuff like early childhood development and things that happen to us. You know, that wasn't anything we did, but things that were happening to us and around us. And really, I think that for a lot of people, it might strike a chord. It might open up this area of woundedness that. That maybe you've tried to push so far down that it would never show up again. And here it is. And so if that means that before you get into group that you seek out some counseling or, you know, something like that, then it really is just whatever's next for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think you also consider going through this course thinking about what other people in your life would benefit from this information. And that's one of the big reasons why we are moving from the conference model with this content and moving it to a video course. Because who knows how long you have to wait till another conference is in your area, and then maybe you have to fly, and, you know, there's still that shame that you have to overcome. But if it's just in, you know, a friend's living room, that you're watching this course together, that seems more approachable, and it's something that you can do in more of a safe environment. So I think that this is something that, once you finish the course. Yes. Consider those next steps what would make most sense for your health. But also consider the health of your friends and where they're at and the community around you and invite them into it as well.

Yeah. We hope that it might lead people towards some culture change, that it's. It's not only about me and what God wants to do in my life, but looking at the environments that he's put me in, whether it's my marriage, my family, my small group, my church, leading people to a place where authenticity is okay, because we. I feel like we all say that, but many people would say not really in my environments. You know, if I get real people just shut down. So what does it look like to move our churches and our small groups and even our homes to places where people really are? It's okay not to Be okay. And we see a value in, hey, unless we're honest with what we're dealing with, we're never going to get better. And so creating that culture change is a big part of what we hope will happen. And whether that's again, at the larger kind of church level or just within your own relationships, I could see that being a powerful next step for a lot of people.

Totally.

So, hey, obviously we're excited about the course and really looking forward to what it will lead to. So, Trevor, let us know a little bit. How can people access this course? What do they need to do?

Yes, you go to PureDesire.org 101. That's it, PureDesire.org 101. And we'll have multiple levels for this that you'll have digital access, which will have its own price of 129. You also can get the DVDs 159 for that. And you'll also get a workbook, a physical workbook included. And then also we are offering a church kit, our church starter kit, 299 for that. And that'll have the digital DVD, digital access and 10 workbooks to get your first group going. Something to kind of think through this, and this was the model when we approached this, was really thinking of it as how Financial Peace does this so well that people, you know, it's just a course that the churches take their people through once a quarter, twice a year, you know, you name it. And, and there's large groups of people that get together at tables. I remember the second time, first time, I don't know, I've taken Financial Peace a few times, but we're finally debt free. So it's like it's worked. Thank you, Dave Ramsey. Also, how dare you not share our social media post? We wanted to do. We wanted you to share it. Still super bitter about that.

And we got another.

And we got debt free in February, but whatever. But I think that this is something that it's okay to, to do multiple times a year or to have hundreds of people from your church or all of your church come and watch this and then discuss or go home and discuss or discuss in community groups. And so this is something that we want to make really accessible. And again, I just want to highlight that the workbook is going to be such a huge piece. Not only will you have content in there and places to take notes during each session, you also have time to reflect on questions that really help you dig beneath the surface, really think about the culture, really think about how much trauma has impacted you and really just process everything we talk about. But then also the weekly work. You actually get to engage with the stuff that we talk about throughout your week. And this is going to be something that really, if you haven't started your healing or recovery journey yet, this will kickstart it for you. And so I think it's something that you need to be able to access and just run with. So. PureDesire.org101 we're just excited to see the.

Impact this can have. And you know, I keep thinking of a phrase you've used and we've mentioned, but it's, it's starting the conversation. And I think most people, if you ask the question, you know, who in the room feels a little uncomfortable bringing up these topics? Like most of us go, yeah, just because no one trained us. It wasn't common in our homes for most of us to just have parents that brought up sexuality in a normal. Like when they did bring it up, it was usually a little tense and awkward. And I think most of us just feel that. So we know it's important, but we don't know how to talk about it. We don't know how to get into it. And so that's what excites me, is just it's starting that conversation and leading people into the kind of things that will really help them. And you know, one thing that just came to mind also, as you were sharing that I would want people to know if you were invited to do this with a group. We've really tried to set up the video course that you don't have to share anything in a mixed group about your story. Like, that's not, it's not going to be okay. Watch the videos and now go around and share your sexual history with this group.

It's like, whoa, there are what arouses you, Tom.

Oh, really?

Really? That's cool. And talk to the pastor about that.

There are discussion questions, but they're meant to be more about what did you learn, what did you hear and what did you think about it. And if you are in a safe group, if it's a group of your friends that are all the same gender or just you and your spouse and you're able to go deeper, there will certainly be opportunities for that. But. But I wouldn't want anyone to avoid it because they feel like, well, I just don't feel comfortable with that conversation because I know my stuff and I don't want to. That's not part of this, the group experience. It's really just that education and equipping. And so if you would raise your hand and say, I need help starting the conversation and I'm not ready to share my own stuff with this group, great. That's what we designed it for. So hopefully, as people hear about opportunities to engage with the video course, they'll jump at it because they want to learn and grow and not get stuck in the fear of what. What thing are they going to ask me? So just, just a reminder there at the end.

Yeah, and we believe wholeheartedly in this content. It has changed our lives. It's changed so many lives that we've seen around us. And we just hope that this is something that can start that conversation. So regardless if you struggle with unwanted sexual behavior or you're experiencing betrayal, this course is for you. As we've said, if you want to even better understand unwanted sexual behavior and how to live a life without it, this course is the first step. This is for men, women and churches, whether you watch it by yourself or as a couple or in a church group. And again, how to access it, you go to puredesire.org 101heave. It's been a while, but you sat in with us. Thank you. Glad you're here.

Yeah, this was fun.

Wherever you're at on your journey, Pure Desire is here to help create a road map for your healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to PureDesire.org and start your healing journey. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do it. If you've already subscribed, please write a review. It helps others find the podcast. And lastly, never stop being healthy.

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