176 - How To Start The Conversation At Your Church

You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal and relationship issues. Hello. Hello. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 176 of the Pure Desire podcast here. Joining me as always, my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Here's Johnny.

Okay, so vulnerability time. I just recently watched. Well, okay, so here's. Here's my dilemma. My dilemma is that is from a very famous horror film. Is what that's from. Yes. It's maybe said a little different. That sounds like Johnny Carson to me. Is that Johnny Carson?

That's what it's supposed to be. The intro to, you know, Decades of the Johnny Carson show. Yes.

Okay. It was also.

Which was before your time. I know that.

Thank. Yeah, that's. That is true.

It's almost before my time.

That's. That is true. It's also from the Shining. It's a famous line from the Shining where he slams his head through the door and says, here's Johnny.

I've seen. Okay, I've seen that clip.

Okay. Yeah.

Can't say I've watched many horror films.

Yeah. And I just. I'm assuming people are gonna, you know, judge me because I've seen that movie anyways.

Probably a little different tone. If I just said it like.

Yeah, it's true. You would have said it like the actor himself, which I always. I'll just say it is Jack. But is it Jack Nicholson? Is that his name or is it because I feel like there's Jack Nicholas, who I think is the golfer Nicholas.

I think you're right.

Jack Nicholson is the act who also play the jokes.

But I'm with you. I thought I was talking about golfers and talking about movie characters. Instead you're like, dang it.

Okay, well, before we just go completely off the rails, few things real quick. First, subscribe to the podcast. If you're not, don't wait any longer. We're on all the major platforms. Make sure that you subscribe and you will get all the new episodes in your podcast player and give us a review. I know I say this every week, but listen to me. It helps. It helps people find the podcast. It helps them know that it's valuable and. And it means a lot to us. Genuinely. It means a lot to us. I actually often print them out and put them in what I call a treasure file. Just cause it's something that if I'm feeling down, I can look at these and be reminded we're doing good stuff. This is helpful. So even if you just want to make it into my treasure file, please just. Just do a review for us. Second, follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. We are your desire pdmi. And if you like to consume video content, some of the clips from these episodes are up on YouTube. Just go to Pure Desire Ministries. Just search us there. Okay, so we want to talk about real quick. The last thing before we get into the episode. We have started a new giving campaign that we are titling, Stories of healing.

Yeah, and you just mentioned it. Even, like, with the reviews, we have the privilege here at Pure Desire of hearing from people every week about how a podcast changed their life. An interview they heard set sent their marriage on a different trajectory. A group they were involved in rescued them from something. It's. It's amazing to see how God has used this ministry. And as excited as we are about every single one of those stories and the way that it fuels us to keep doing it, we know we're only scratching the surface. I mean, the. The numbers that are out there when it comes to our sexual addiction and sexual brokenness, and particularly during this season of COVID are honestly worse than ever. And we just have this burden where we say, there's so much work to be done. Lord, would you equip us and help us have the resources to reach more people? And so we're kind of putting a call out to all of you that listen and would say, in some way, this ministry has touched my life. And the Stories of healing is our invitation to say, join with us. I mean, you're already with us in terms of your words and your encouragement, but would you be willing to take a little piece of your finances and partner with us on a monthly basis to say, I want to be a part of someone else experiencing healing in the way that I have, or my family or. Or my loved ones? And so we see how even when you make a small donation, I mean, a small donation made monthly adds up over time. And so you might be listening, feeling like, well, I don't have much to give. I don't have, you know, a big, huge savings pot that I can just drop down 20 GS on some.

Yeah, well, me neither.

Yeah, almost no one does, but I'm guessing we could say at 20 bucks a month, you know, you multiply that over years and decades, you can make a difference. And more than just making a difference, it's how you feel like you're then a part of the mission, because you really are entering into this work with Us in your support, in your prayers, and our ability then to track with you as you're a monthly donor. We will send updates and kind of keep you in the news, so to speak, of what's happening, how God's using people's donations. So we just want to ask, wherever you're at, whether it's a small amount or a large amount, if you would jump in with us as a monthly donor, you could be a part of the next stories of Healing. And we really believe that God can use all of us together to make a difference in this world. Yep.

And so just ask yourself this question. If I were to financially give to Pure Desire, what stories of healing could I create? So if you want to give, whether it's monthly or if you do also want to just give a one time gift, go to PureDesire.org stories All right, so we have a lot of conversations, I think organically about what we talked about today. And you know, we developed now this document and really want to touch on it. This podcast as well is the idea of maybe someone who isn't a pastor, isn't on staff at their church and they know their church doesn't have pure desire groups, recovery support groups, but wants to start that conversation.

Yeah. And just like the introduction, you know, Johnny Carson needed a great intro and he had one and that is always how he launched the show. And what we find for churches is often they need an introduction to start a purity ministry because it's a complicated area, it can feel messy. There's a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of maybe horror stories out there about churches that did something and made people feel incredibly awkward and they never brought it up again. So what we have seen over and over is that the way most groups end up getting started is someone that has experienced a level of healing or change in their life because they went to a group at another church, or maybe they went to a group online or maybe they've been a part of a ministry at a church and then they moved for a job or something like that and they feel called to come to their church, come to a staff member and introduce that conversation and just in faithfulness say, I'm going to be willing to have the conversation and God will take it from there. And so I think this episode was how to help equip people that might be the one helping move that conversation forward. Because that's not always an easy conversation to have. But we really see over and over that that's what for many churches is kind of the Point that gets them going.

Yeah. And it's just not an easy. It's not. You're not pitching a really easy ministry. Like, I want to have a potluck every single Sunday after church and I'll make all the food and it'll be great. Like, this is something that's really hard work, but it's still something that's very valuable and if done right, I think can be a huge on ramp for a big ministry for so many churches. So we had Rich Moore on with us, who's our international men's groups coordinator, who's, you know, had a million of these conversations all the time. Yeah. So it is going to be a helpful one. Enjoy. Rich, welcome back.

Always glad to be here.

We're glad to have you. It is nice. That easy access that we have you like, you know, three seconds away.

Yeah, I was here just like a week ago or something.

That's true. That's true.

People are like a week ago. I haven't heard him for like four episodes. We record these in batches. Okay. So our time today is going to be spent walking through a document that we have developed that really walks through seven steps to starting the conversation about sexual brokenness in your church. I think that we historically as an organization are really good at helping people get groups started and have these conversations a lot with people. I know you and Ashley spend a lot of time on the phone. I know we at events have tons of conversations about how to engage this topic in the like to start. And so I felt like this was something that we needed to just kind of walk through. What we would encourage people to do when maybe you have nothing at your church and you want to get something going. So let's just jump right into number one. The first step that we have on how to start the conversation at your church is have completed the PD group cycle, if you will. So let's unpack this. What do we mean?

Yeah, it's in short, it's really just going through the process. So now we have the 101 process or the 101 series. So if they go through that, then they launch or not launch, but that person's going to go through the 101, go through seven pillars, betrayal and Beyond Unraveled Ferment on her Hope for Men. For Men. So they're going to go through that and then maybe there's some follow up. Could be Genesis, process, could be whatever the next step is. So roughly that first year they're going through this and then once they've gone through it, and more than likely they've gone through it at a different church or in an online group. Then we have that conversation of what's next, and that's when we talk to them about going to have that conversation with whoever at their church pastor. But, yeah, to get through the material is key. Yeah. You can't teach it if you don't know it.

Right? Yeah. And just to be clear, this episode, we're kind of addressing a situation where you don't tend to have the staff on board that you're a volunteer, you're just a member of a church you attend somewhere, and you're like, man, my church needs this. They have nothing. How can I help? So we're trying to equip you to take that conversation back. And in this point, the idea of completing a group cycle, or at least getting close to completing a group cycle, I think is important also from the perspective of we can be quick to jump out of our healing and into helping other people. And so we'll hear that from people. People, like, three weeks into group, like, I, this is great. And I think I'm going to take it to my church. I'm going to talk to my pastor. It's like, like, okay, love the passion, hold on to that. But let's get you a little further down the road, because you may be in that situation, don't realize how raw you still are. How, yeah, maybe, you know, you're not nearly as far down the road as you think you are. And if you go to a staff member, try to take it to your church, then I think they're going to right away see that too. It's like this person's just barely starting their own recovery. We don't want them talking to other people yet. So really, the greatest thing you can do is get some recovery under your belt, take some of those strides, focus on your health and recovery, and a time will come. Usually that 9, 10, 11 month mark, that's like, man, I really am starting to live differently. And there's some humility about my life and my story that will really be effective in helping other people get on board. But if you just try to jump that gun, it's kind of too early, too soon. And people, I think, will maybe be a little fearful if you're ready to be taking that kind of a role at your church.

I had an old mentor of mine say, and granted, I thought it was stupid when he said it makes total sense now, but he said that you can't lead someone somewhere you've never been before. And I was just like, well, that, you know, whatever. I was young and in ministry, I was full of. I don't know what I thought was the Holy Spirit, but it wasn't. But I think that that's true, that you can't take some. Like what you guys are saying is you can't take someone somewhere you've never been if you have not been living in health or in recovery or experienced what you know. Let's say we take seven pillars. If you do not know what pillar six and seven are like, you can't lead someone well through six and seven. So you need to understand that part of you being able to even talk about this in a holistic way. You have to be able to experience the whole thing.

Yeah. And kind of follow up with what Nick was saying. I've had this conversation with leaders who were gung ho. They've had two months and they're in.

Which is great, by the way. It's totally great.

Awesome. They're in group and they've gone two months and they haven't acted out, and they go and they start their own group. Well, they. They're in group, leading a group now. They're into pillar two. They get to pillar three in their second or third month, and then they have a major relapse. Yeah. Because he. Like you said, you can't teach what you don't know. And he's. I mean, pillar two, you're just getting your feet wet, and then you really get into the hard stuff.

Right.

And then it's like, oh, I'm not ready. Had that conversation quite a bit.

Yeah. Well. And helping lead others, talking with your church, launching groups, all those things take time, focus, and attention, which they should. But your recovery takes time, focus, and attention, and it's just really, really hard to do both well. And so that's why, as much as possible, getting towards the end of your process before you really say, okay, Lord, am I ready? How could you use me to take this to my church? Can be really crucial. So the second step in that process is to set up a meeting with a staff member. I mean, that sounds kind of basic. What do we mean by this? Why do you need to set up a meeting with a staff member?

Well, let me just say this. If you don't know or have a personal relationship with your senior pastor, maybe don't start with that person.

Maybe don't lead with this. Right.

Yeah. I think that some of this has to happen organically and relationally, but at the same Time. If you have connections, which I imagine if you are in a local church, you know, one of your pastors or you've had coffee or had conversations, I would say you approach the staff member and preferably someone who is in leadership, because I think that you have to have some level of authority to start making something actually a part of your church in the ministry. You've got to have, you know, some oversight there. But I think that I would set up a meeting. And one of the things that. And we've talked about this a lot, that if someone. If I'm a pastor and someone sets up a meeting and then basically gives me all the information is like, okay, so can we do it? It's like, hold on a second, Like, I gotta catch up a minute. Like, you're dumping all this information on me. And I don't really understand, like, how are you involved? Do I have to do this? What does this look like? And so I think that if you're the person who's bringing this to your church and you set up a conversation, you know, look, if there's food or there's coffee, every meeting tends to go better. I just promise you, okay, best case, if you have a male pastor that you're taking out, take them golfing. Okay? Those are just. Those are three small tips for you. Okay. I know Nick is over here, like, yep, I like food, I like coffee, I like golf. But I would then just share your story. I would share your story and your experience in group, your process, how you kind of got to this point, and really your heart, the desire to help. I think that that will go a long way in this even becoming part of the conversation at your church is. I'm not just basically, you know, taking this. This big boulder and setting it on their lap and saying, okay, can we do this? You're actually carrying the boulder and saying, I'd like to help with this weight or with this ministry as we move. So I think sharing your story, really communicating the desire to help over coffee, golf or food is good.

Yeah. And maybe just to add to that, not to go in, like, super, super, like, overly excited. Because then you're just, like you said, you're just going to flood them with a ton of information. And one, the pastor is like, well, what is pure desire? Who is it? I never even heard of.

Yeah.

And so initially, the pastor is going to think, and I've had this conversation a lot, is like, well, I don't have the bandwidth to oversee this. Who's going to do that? And what's it going to look like? So I always tell people, like you said, Trevor, as you want to start, share your story, hey, I went through this over at this church or an online group. This is what I've experienced in the last year. And you give him kind of a bullet point of information about kind of what Pure Desire is about. And then when I'm talking to that person who's going to talk to the pastor, I say, let them know, start the conversation with him and then say, hey, we can set up a meeting with Rich and Ashley at Pure Desire and then we can have a Q A with the pastor and then kind of walk them through the process.

Totally.

That's the way to go. Because if you flood him with information, he heard that he had the same conversation with a different leader trying to pitch their group just before your meeting. So now they're trying to juggle everything.

Well, and this might sound super practical or insignificant, but as a, you know, someone who was a pastor for 15 years, I know how important it was to actually take the time to ask for and schedule a meeting. Nothing was more irritating or difficult for me to know how to navigate than someone that's grabbing me two minutes before service starts and launching into, hey, we need to start this new ministry, or what are we doing for the orphans? Or what? Like, or after service, you know, and you're kind of navigating some responses to the service or questions people have. And if someone right then tries to launch into, it's just like, I don't have the. My mind is not in the right place for that. Or someone just barge into my office like, you got a few minutes? I mean, it's hard to say no. It's like, yeah, I got a few minutes. And if you're going to launch a whole thing in it, like, so my attitude as the pastor immediately is going to be resistance just because of how you're approaching it, right? But when someone, whether after a service, email, phone call, just said, hey, is there a good time I could take you out for lunch? Is there a time I could come by and get half an hour or an hour just to sit and talk about something that God's put on my heart, it's like, well, now my posture as the pastor is more excited. Like, it sounds like something neat's happening and they want to share with me. And I'm encouraged, I'm looking forward to it. And I've created space on my calendar to listen and to be present. And I'm not checking my watch the whole Time, like, how long is this going to take? So if you do that, you're going to increase the likelihood of a good conversation versus just trying to grab someone or send them a quick email. It's too important of a topic to try to address in passing. So take the time to actually set up a meeting and go in with some thought and some prayer and some planning, because it really is a significant conversation that you want to handle it well. And so, again, it sounds really minor or practical, but I think it can be a huge difference maker.

You've inspired me. Some more practical things. I would say if you could keep it to like, a half an hour, that would probably be helpful because pastors have lots of meetings all the time with people. And then also to what you said, Rich, I think mapping it out so you know exactly what you're gonna say is gonna be super helpful. Just going in it and kind of winging it. You may miss some things. And then you might need to set up a second meeting. And if the first one didn't go well, the pastor doesn't want a second meeting. You know, like, if you can do as much prep as you can and then also put those parameters around it. I think to your point, Nick, a pastor is going to be super open to. Yeah, I've got 30 minutes this Thursday. Let's do it. That kind of thing. I think that could be really helpful. But if you're paying for my golf, I mean, I'm in. Yeah, I'm in.

Hey, there's some of the best pure desire conversations on the golf course. I'm just saying.

Yes.

All right. The third step here we talk about what is a share about pure desire? The group structure.

Yeah. I think when we are discussing with a staff member, you know, starting purity groups or helping men and women who struggle with pornography, for a lot of staff members, it can be an intimidating conversation because it feels like, oh, man, you know, we open that door. And the kind of conversations or the messiness. And I've literally heard, and it's breaks my heart, but I've heard people say, our staff told us they didn't want to do that because too many people would come. It's like, wait a minute. They recognize it's so big of a problem that if they open the door, they might be flooded. And so their choices to do nothing. Like, are you kidding me?

But.

But I think what we hear in that is there is some fear of, like, we don't really know how to navigate this. So if you just go in and say, you know, here's my story. Let's do something. Is like, you might get a deer in the headlights look, but if you're able to say, and Pure Desire has a proven plan and a process. They've got groups that are well rooted in, you know, experience and in psychology and in scripture and a very, very effective plan. They've seen thousands of people walk through it. They've got these regional group advisors that will assist us. They've got people that can answer our questions. They've got group leaders. Like, if you start, and I wouldn't say it that fast, you're going to overwhelm them. But if you could even just lay out three or four things to say, we're not alone in this. Pure Desire is going to partner with us. They've been doing it for decades. Here's the group material. Here's leaders, guides, here's mentors and coaches that can help us. Well, immediately as a pastor now, I'm like, oh, wow, that, like, that looks really solid. And I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I don't have to come up with what to do. Like, I'm just now looking at how could we maybe implement something that already works and is effective. That's a really good conversation. So have some of those pieces in mind that can help your staff feel like this just went from being a pie in the sky. Yeah, someday we'll tackle that big monster to being doable. Like, we can do this. Let's go for it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that this. I just. For me, there's a lot of things kind of wrapped up in this. But I like when churches have trusted organizations that they can not outsource to, but that we trust that the material they're giving us is helpful and that we don't have to do all this extra work. I just. I just have seen and I've experienced something similar where it's. It's just would be too much. We just. Like, I'm having a hard enough time putting together. Like, for me, when I was a youth pastor, I was having a hard enough time putting the message together for Wednesday and Thursday. And, you know, I had discipleship stuff and I was doing with the students, and then I needed to go home and be able to sleep. Like, I didn't have time to do all this stuff. And I think that this creates it in a. Like, the fact that it. That it is this. This breadth of a program, but also has a specific steps and structure is really helpful because for me, it's also Going to depend on who's bringing it. Like, who is bringing. Who is this individual that's bringing this plan? Because if someone who is just like, you know, this is their flavor of the week. It's like they brought me something last week and that was kind of crazy. I think that this will help a little bit. You're laughing because you know the person I'm talking about. Right. Like, and sometimes maybe we have even been those people. But I think that if you can create a connection with Pure Desire and the structure and the systems and the breadth of what we offer, I think that that adds credibility to it. Rather than just you having to share the most compelling version of your story or promote it in a specific way. You can let the fact that Pure Desire has been doing this for how long we have let that kind of do the selling.

Well, Nick talked about, you know, the pastor's not having to reinvent the wheel. Yep. I think one of the key thing. Well, the key thing that I always tell somebody when they're go to their pastor is to make sure you let them know that not only do you as the group leader have access to us, but Nick mentioned the regional group advisors. So they. We have all this support, we have all this training, we have the tools on the website and podcasts and blogs and the resources, all of this stuff that we've put out. If the group leader follows that and is connected with their RGA and connected with us and the newsletter and just. And then especially like our group guidelines and the procedure, stuff like that. It takes a lot of pressure off the church staff, whether you're the men's pastor, the senior pastor, or you're just over groups or whatever that looks like. Right. The staff doesn't have to put a lot of effort into overseeing it because, well, they oversee it, but they don't have to have a lot of hands on. They're going to support it and promote it, but they're going to let the leader get trained from the people who know.

Right? Yeah. So I kind of think of the experience I had as a pastor with Financial Peace and Financial Peace University as a training plan. I knew the people in our church needed help with finances, and I'd heard a Financial Peace, but I'd never really experienced it and it sounded complicated. And a friend invited me to just sit in on a session at their church and answered a bunch of my questions. And over the course of just like an hour of experiencing it, I went from feeling like I'm overwhelmed. I don't know how to help my people with their finances, to being like, oh, this is doable. We set up the course, we invite people to come. We show that, like, it just changed my mindset. And it would have never happened had I not believed that it was doable and that there was a structure in place, that I didn't have to figure this out. Like, I just had to plug Dave Ramsey in and follow their plan.

What a saint. From the Lord shout out to Dave Ramsey.

I mean, and we're not as refined and developed as financial pieces. They're much larger group. But we have a similar plan to say, you just follow a process and it can work for you. And if you can help your staff believe it's doable, that might be the game changer.

Totally. So the fourth step, and I know a lot of people end up doing this maybe. I mean, I know from my experience it was the first group I was ever in. But usually there's a step of really offering to facilitate the first group, and that's kind of in line with the not putting all the weight on the church. So let's talk about that fourth step.

Yeah. Normally that person that's going in there, he is going to say, hey, I'm ready to lead this. I highly recommend when you go to the church and you talk to the staff or the pastor that start small, you know, we talk about kind of the soft launch approach. You know, go and say, hey, I just need five or six guys that are willing to go through this. Sometimes if you've heard Ashley's story and where she went to her church and say, hey, we need a group, and she's never been through it, and Rodney's.

Like.

So that does happen.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I think just having the experience of gone through the group and you get to that point where you're healthy enough and you want to give back, the biggest way you can get back is to lead the next group of people through. You know, I think I haven't had a guy go to the church say, hey, we need this. Well, I mean, I know it happens, but I haven't talked to a lot of guys where they brought this to the pastor saying, we need this group, but not willing to lead the group.

Yeah.

So for those people that are going to the pastor that have the experience and the healing, boy, this is just your next step in the healing process. Because when you go from being a group member to leading a group, there's a lot of growth that continues as you go to lead the second, third, and fourth, and you know, 400 groups down the road, you know, you're right. There's a lot of growth. I'm still learning through leading 400 years later.

Yeah, yeah, well, and again, I think it's the biggest difference maker in making this ministry doable. I remember a time as a pastor, I had a couple of gals come to my office and they had this idea for launching a ministry to our local school. And as I'm hearing their ideas, like they're awesome ideas, but in the back of my mind I'm thinking, one more thing on my plate, just, I don't have time for this. But the conversation changed and they said, and we'll lead it. We'll write the announcements, we'll collect the supplies, we'll organize them, we'll organize the volunteer. And now suddenly I'm like, lights are going out of my head. And basically they're saying, we just want the church involved because we think it could help so much and we kind of just want the support. And could you give us a little space to announce it? I'm like, well, I'd be stupid not to do that because it was two people I trusted. So I think that's key. You need to consider, am I a trustworthy person? And if you haven't developed that relationship in your church with maybe, as we were saying, one staff member, is there someone on staff that does know you and trust you because that they might be able to help open the door to the other person. But they were two women I trusted who had an idea that I knew was valuable and were willing to spearhead it. At that point as a pastor, it's like, why wouldn't we? And I think that's what you're trying to do is you have this conversation with your church. Pastors know it's an issue. They know people need help. They probably don't know what to do or feel like they have the time to do it. But if you're sitting in front of them saying, I'm experiencing God's healing and I've got the support of pure desire and I'll lead the first group, what I'm really looking to you for is some support, maybe a small announcement and a room to meet in, you know, at that point, the staff members like, it becomes almost a no brainer. Like, well, I'd be a fool not to open the door to this. So try to put them in a position to say yes.

Yeah, well, my experience, because, I mean, mine is a little unique because I was on staff, I was a youth Pastor on staff, but realized that our church needed this. And so I just asked 11 other guys. Like, I just got asked. Like, I came. I remember sitting in Kaiser, Oregon. I remember sitting in the office at an elders meeting and just saying, I think this is something we need to do. And a couple of the elders are like, I'll go through the Conquer series with you. Sure, let's do it. And then, you know, 10 other guys show up. And then what's cool is that after that first round of Conquer series, then created two seven pillars groups. And at the end, it was like the church was in. Like, this was good. And what's cool is I had this. This is why I would say we should test pilot the groups or have that soft launch. Because at the end of it, all 12 of us were like, we really needed this. And there were guys who were like, yeah, I'll try it. I'll be a consistent guy for six weeks as we do this. But then we finished and was like, okay, I need to go into pillars. This is awesome. Let's do this. And I think that if you can invite an elder, a pastor, and sometimes that dynamic in group can be different, you know, different and difficult. But someone who's got a level of leadership or influence or a coordinator or something like that at your church to at least watch at this point, maybe the first session of the 101, or maybe flip through seven pillars or unraveled, something like that, I think can go a long way. If there's some level of investment from somebody on the church, maybe they don't have to lead, but just maybe viewing or previewing or something like that could be helpful.

Yeah, and I think there's a key part to that, too, is if somebody from the church, pastor, men's, Whatever role they play, if they're coming to that would be huge if they were able to share maybe some of their struggle in that. You know, to say, hey, just because I'm a pastor doesn't mean I haven't had this in my life, you know, Because I think when a pastor is able to get up in front of guys and share that, then it becomes a super safe place. It's like, well, my pastor has struggled with this. Now. Okay, I'm willing to go through it.

So, yeah, so let's go on to the fifth way that we can start this conversation, and that is to help with promotion and announcing. Guys, what do we mean by that?

I'm a stickler for language. I mean, I just feel like it's so important the Language we use, we don't. I think that. And I'm guilty of it too. I say a lot of words, but if I was more intentional with them, I think they'd have more power. And I think from the front, if you're making an announcement or you're posting something on social media or it's going out in your newsletter, I think the first thing is inclusive language. You have to use inclusive language because if you start saying for men or you're just really, you're not giving any examples that men and women can struggle with this. And really even using language that it's just for those who are struggling and there isn't anything for a betrayed spouse, I think that that's a way to just tank this from the beginning because I think you can inadvertently shame people. But also I think that peppering in really illustrations, analogies that touch on this topic, making it something that is a part of conversation, I think is really important as a church is starting to explore this. But I also think that we need to just get to the point where everybody's broken. I mean that's really what we need to know, is that everybody is broken and needs healing and help in this area. And I think that sharing your story is a great way to do that. I think having testimonies, we talk about that we see all these testimonies of people who get up on stage and you just see the finished product, if you will. But not a lot of in process stories. I think finding people who'd be willing to just be vulnerable and share and it doesn't. I think as I'm even saying this, it doesn't have to be from the stage every Sunday. It could be something that's in a meeting with three or four people. It could be a small group, community group, it could be, you name it. It could just be a way to connect people to what's really going on in each other's lives, I think is really helpful. But I just really think that we have to be careful with the language that we use. Be very intentional with how you say it. And maybe you need to write it out, maybe you need to write it down. Like this is word for word how I'm going to describe what this ministry is or what these groups do. Because I think that there's just a ton of shame here anyway. And I don't think that we need to cover it with more.

Yeah, and I agree. I've had the same conversation with pastors all about how to promote it, at least from the stage from the pulpit and really talking about exactly what you just said and. And really helping them to like, kind of craft what they're going to say, how they're going to say it. Do I do it in one service or a bunch of, you know, so they. I usually try to encourage them to put a, like a teaching a series together about, you know, healthy sexuality and different topics for. For a couple weeks to kind of launch them into. Or get people interested. And then, I mean, the home run is a testimony. So you've just done three or four weeks or five weeks in this series on healthy sexuality or whatever. And then you have a couple. And maybe it's the guy who came from a different church to. But because he did group over there and him and his wife are in such a great place and now they can share their road to recovery with everybody. And just a huge part to be able to say, because when you have that. When you have a pastor up there that Sharon his stuff and through the teaching, and then say, hey, I'm going to bring up this couple way. It's super powerful.

Yeah, yeah. To bring it back, though, to a lot of the volunteers that may be trying to bring this to their church. They may not have much say in the sermon series, how it's announced. Like, and honestly, as a pastor, if people started telling me what to announce or when, like, again, I'm like, I got 18 people that want 47 things announced. I'm sorry, we're not doing it. And so if you tell me what to announce, that's not good. So I think if you're trying to start this conversation at your church, ways that you can help is to just offer to say, hey, if the church would be open to it or if you'd be willing, I'm ready to share my story. I do it. If you'd want to video it, if you're willing to hand me the microphone, if you want me to write it out. So to just offer that. And then if they choose to use it or not, you're not telling them how to do it. You're just making yourself available. I think you could also offer, like, hey, I'd be willing to write up a paragraph or two about how this has changed my life. And if you thought you were either going to put it on our website or you would announce it at services, you could read that, say, here's what one member of our church experienced in this group. And then the other thing is maybe just to try to help your staff think through what are we starting because if they're starting the Sexual Integrity 101 video course that's designed for everyone, then it is easy to say, like, hey, if you just want to come and learn and be equipped. And that can be a broader funnel. But as Rich was saying, a lot of churches are going to start small and they're going to start with one group for men going through seven pillars. And in that instance, I think you do want to just try to be grace filled and say, hey, we know the reality of our world, that we struggle with sexual brokenness. And for some of you, that may mean it feels a little out of control and we have a group. But then what you want to try to have your staff think about is how to announce it very confidentially and for people to sign up in a way that is equally confidential, which typically is. Here is the person to text or email if you're interested in finding out more about this question group. So that again, that's some instructions we've given to pastors and leaders on other podcasts. But to just encourage you as the volunteer, I think your role is to make yourself available to share what you're willing to do and then, you know, really trust and ask God to help put it on the heart and minds of your staff what they want to do with it. Because if you get into that field of trying too much to tell them how to announce this, I think depending on your staff, you're going to start to feel some resistance because again, they get so many requests to announce so many things.

Yeah.

All right, number six, we talk about encouraging connection with the pure desire support. So let's walk through that one.

Yeah, I think as we've talked about, it's encouraging that there are people that have been down this road and they are here to help us. They want to help us. And so if it's maybe setting up a meeting with a pastor and one of us, because I know we've all had those kind of conversations just to talk with staff, answer their questions, help them get a better grasp of it. So I think those sorts of things and being willing, if you're the volunteer coming to offer that, to say, I know pure desire, I'd be glad to meet with our staff if they have more questions, or I could connect this to that regional group advisor. So if you're going in to your pastor to have that conversation, have a few of those contacts in mind, have a few emails in your back pocket so that you could really quickly say, hey, here's someone we could follow up with. Would you like me to set up a meeting? And I think that just. It creates for a staff member a sense that this organization, they really know what they're doing. This isn't just. We're not just making it up as we go. Like, there's a plan and a process, and if you can provide that connection, I think that'd be really helpful.

I called Rich every single week.

A couple times a week.

Yeah, there were some. Yeah, yeah. And at one point, I was texting who I thought was Rich to. And I think I've told this story before, but I was trying to text Rich and let him know about something and ended up texting someone who was brand new to our church, who I had no idea was struggling in this area and inadvertently invited him to the group. And he came, and his life is totally different now. So you, too, if you stay connected to Pure Desire, can surprisingly help people save their lives and marriages. I think that that's just. That's one of the things that we value so much as an organization, is just being a constant support and encouragement, and we talk about this all the time, is that our hope is not that you would start Pure Desire groups at your church. It's that you would start your recovery groups at your church. We just help you with the plan and really the resources. But you're the one who's leading the group. You know, you are the people who are in groups doing the work. You're the ones who are creating this ministry. And I think that that's such an important piece to understand that you're not recreating Pure Desire at your church. You creating a ministry to help people at your church. We just are here to help you and encourage you and support you and seriously, I mean, I don't know. You're probably busier now, Rich, but like I did. I called you, like, every single week. And I remember talking. I remember exactly where I stood every time we had the conversation. So I think that it is something that you can and should take advantage of and know that if you're in a tight spot or don't understand what to do next or. Man, you're getting into disclosure, you've got some really messy things. That's what we do best.

Yeah. I might regret saying this, but if you do have questions, you just call us. Call Trevor directly.

I was gonna say I'm gonna put your phone number directly in the show notes.

Yeah. You know that. And that's why Ashley and I are doing. That's why we're on the group. Team and. And not just the groups. But that's why we show up for work every day. You know, regardless of what department we're in, we're all talking to people. We have questions every day, and that's why we show up. We show up because we want to help. People had some conversations today with. With more legal questions, so I get those. I mean, those have ramped up since the last podcast, so I believe it. But those are questions that a lot of people aren't sure how to ask. And, you know, do I really want to call peer desire? Do I go to my pastor? I just. I encourage. It doesn't matter what the question is. I mean, that's why we're here. And if you. If, you know, if you. If you're not ready to ask it personally, I mean, Gosh, we have 170some podcasts. Chances are one of those questions.

And blogs, tons of blogs. Yep.

And then again, the regional group advisors. Don't be afraid to reach out for support because we have all of this stuff to help you.

Yeah.

And the people to help, too. So. Yeah.

Yeah.

When I think of the illustration, you know, people have been going down this road for a long time now, and you don't have to forge ahead on your own. So if you think about, you know, Lewis and Clark making their way to Oregon, that was hard. And I bet when Ted Roberts started the first group at East Hill, that was hard. But that was 25 years ago. And in that time, you know, you think about the Oregon Trail, like, over time, there started to be outposts and lodges, places where you could get supplies. Like, it developed and developed over time, and so it made that journey easier and easier. And I think that's what we've tried to do is because so many people have gone down this road, we see the help that's needed. We see where. Well, if you listen to this podcast, that would help. So the journey has gotten easier and easier, if you're willing to take it now. It still would have been hard to travel from St. Louis to Oregon, you know, in those days, even with the support, but have been a whole heck of a lot easier than that first group. So think of it that way. Like, you're not the first ones, and there's people all along on that journey that can help get you to your destination.

No one needs to die of dysentery anymore.

That Oregon Trail every time is, oh, gosh, I love bear hunting.

Hopefully game hunting.

I hope people know what we're talking about. Maybe they don't like what are they talking about? All right, back on track, Back on track. Okay, so the last step is really following a document that we've put in place to really what the process looks like for rolling out groups. So this is the follow the developing a PD ministry plan. And so what's on that? What will people get?

Well, I just want to mention what Nick just said. You know, 25 years, there's 25 plus years kind of into this plan of just like things we did dumb and things that we knew didn't work and you know, stuff like that. So but in, in short, it's the developing appeared as a purity group ministry. We go, we go over the foundations and then talks about recommended resources. And there's some key podcasts I just highlighted which. And these are podcasts that we refer to almost daily when people call. So podcast number three, how to start peer desire group in your church. And then 26 is the seven pillar. 26 and 27 are seven pillars. 95. We talk about the unraveled groups and then podcast 152 leading unraveled groups. So there's two of them and then the betrayal and beyond groups. So those are key. Those, those are, I kind of call those the non negotiables when going through this process. Now this document is, is on our website. So you can refer to this, print it off, have it on your desk. I would take this. When you go to that meeting with your pastor or oversight at the church, take this with them or take this with you and then kind of walk them through that a little bit and let them know, hey, these are the points and this is what we do. And this is kind of how they have it set up, you know, and to go to the beginning of it, I would really encourage in that first meeting is to go there and show The Sexual Integrity 101. The, the trailer. Such a key. There's a lot of information in that short trailer which is almost, I don't say an easy sell, but it's like, oh, okay, they have this, you can say easy sell.

We worked really hard.

Yeah, we did.

Yeah.

But it's, it's a, it, it gives a pastor an idea. It's like, wow, they have this kind of like what Nick said early on about financial peace. They have this already and we talk about it right from the beginning and in the document. So I just think this is if, if you don't take the time to go through this and understand each piece in the, in the, in the document, it's going to be hard. A hard start.

Yeah. What comes to mind here? We're talking about the handoff that can occur between you going as that volunteer.

Yeah.

Offering to help get things going to a staff or staff member. Getting involved. And so in this area, I would encourage you, you need to read the room, because it may be they're not quite ready for that. Like, they're at the stage that if you want a room and they'll make a little announcement and they'll let you lead. And that's about the level they seem ready for. I wouldn't pull out this document, like, here's our church plan for the next four years. And again, they may feel like you're trying to do their job and they're like. Like, whoa, power. Like, they're just hesitant. But other times, and I've heard of these conversations where you come in with this. This burden and this ministry and you help. And the pastor's like, yes, I have been praying and I haven't known what to do. And this looks awesome. And we're going to get the whole church on board. And, well, in that scenario. Well, yep. Say, well, they've got a game plan and we could follow this. And so you need to read the room a little bit because either route can be very, very effective over time and can change tons of lives. It's just different churches and different church cultures are at different points of readiness. So if you go in and kind of feel like at the end, all they really were ready for was you to lead a group in a room and they're going to help announce it a little bit, like, that's still a win. That's a huge victory. That's huge. On the other hand, if they're excited and you're handing them this how to develop a ministry document, and they're saying, we're going to follow it, that's awesome, too. But just be aware. You might get either reaction and trust that God will use that and just be faithful to take the next step.

Yeah. And know that this is like a holistic approach. Like the one on one course at the beginning is trying to get a bunch of people in the room to start consuming this content and understand what sexual brokenness is and that there's integrity and really restoration of relationships and healing from betrayal. That's possible. And one of the things that, you know, we've said when it comes to this document is this is what we see happen. As far as the process, we'd love it if recovery groups and support groups started at the Same time, if Seven Pillars, Betrayal and Beyond, you know, unraveled and Hope for Men, they all start at the same time. It doesn't always start that way, but this should be really what you're shooting for as it unrolls. And it's so nice because as you know, if you're handing it to someone, a pastor who's excited about this, you can see that there is movement. This is a scalable thing that can happen over time. It's not just a, well, we're going to try one group and we're just going to see if a second group will maybe start and then maybe God willing, the quarter after group, like, I don't know why I did like a.

Southern accent, Lord willing, we'll do it anyways.

Just know that this is something that we're trying to create sustainable growth of groups over the long haul. And, and really what's, and this is what I think would be important is identify too that this isn't just groups that are starting. This is potentially five to seven people whose lives are going to change over a ten month period and then over five years their family is going to be completely different. And that ministry in your community, the language I use consistently is that aspirational identity. You're showing what the future will look like if a group's ministry is allowed the space and given oversight to flourish. I think that's going to be helpful where it's not just, hey, can we start this one thing? It's hey, this potentially has this impact to really change lives in our community. I think that could be helpful as you're having this conversation.

Yeah. And just to add, you know, before it was like, hey, we're going to start with a men's group. You know that that's kind of think we kind of focus on that sometimes because when we're doing a pod, we're just a bunch of guys in here. But a lot of churches, like even on our website, the ones that are on the map, a lot of those churches started with women's groups because the guys just weren't ready but the wives knew that they needed some help.

Yeah.

So now it's not necessarily, oh, you got to start with the men's group. It's like wherever that is and whatever group is. So I would encourage those ladies that are listening if you know you're talking to some other ladies and you know your husbands are, yeah. Are struggling to approach the pastor and even if you don't have a men's group going because the ladies need Just as much support or more during this time too. So don't be afraid to start with the women's group.

Yeah, well, you mentioned Ashley's story earlier and that's what's funny about her story. It's, it's because the church launched the men's group that she was there like a woman. Like, what about the wives? And that's actually what spurred them on, was it? It brought someone else forward. So just to balance that a little, like, if all you've got is a guy who's willing to start a group and no one, like, don't be afraid to start with that because I think God can use that to maybe cause a few women to step up and say, well, we'd like to do something for the women. Like, great, we were hoping someone would.

Right. So I think it's important as we're wrapping this episode that this stuff isn't going to happen just in like a week span. This is going to be something that, like we said, the first step is really you getting in and experiencing group. And that's going to take some time. But just trust that as God is moving you and growing you, that that will have impact. And I think one of the coolest things that I've seen is you can't really argue someone's story that if you've seen transformation in your life and you're sharing that story, someone can say, can't say to you, well, that's wrong. That didn't happen. It's like, no, they're going to see the change. And so this is stuff that is practical. Yes, they're not overnight, but they are effective if you put them into place. And understand that the whole point of this is because we're wanting to change the culture in our church and we're wanting to create opportunity for men and women to get healthy in the area of sexuality, save marriages, families and really renew a community. So this is definitely something that we hope is helpful and these simple, you know, yet, you know, time consuming steps. But we really do think that this is the path forward to starting the conversation at your church. So, Rich, thanks for helping create this document and this plan and thanks for joining us today. Wherever you're at on your journey, Pure Desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to PureDesire.org and start your healing journey today. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do it. If you already are a subscriber, please write a review. It helps others find the podcast last. Lastly, never stop being healthy.