183 - Growing Connection In Marriage

You're listening to the Pure Desire Podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. Welcome to 2021, people. I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 183 of the Pure Desire Podcast. Here joining me, as always, is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Are you not entertained?

Do you suggest that people, Christians specifically, watch that movie?

Do you know what movie it's from?

I think it's Gladiator.

Yes, Gladiator. Very good. I mean, it's been like 15 years since I've seen it. Yeah, it's pretty gory, but kind of a compelling story.

Totally.

And the guy's life and what's motivating him. I'm trying to remember why I wouldn't recommend it. It's been too long.

I mean, it's been a while since I've seen it too, which I forgive me, movie gods or whatever, I don't know. But I think you hear so many people who say, Braveheart is this amazing movie. And it is. It's an incredible movie. It also has sexual content in it. So people are just like, oh, even pastors use Braveheart in sermon illustrations. And I'm like thinking, what if someone goes and then watches it later and goes, okay, I don't know what these people are preaching, but I just think about that sometimes.

That's always the catch, right? Just because you've referenced one part doesn't mean you're wholeheartedly embracing the whole.

Right.

The whole film and everything it represents.

And just because I think Die Hard is the greatest Christmas movie ever made, I would not go watch it again and suggest anybody watch it. So there you go. Even though that I just. I will say this. There is a Netflix special out that is on the movies that made us in America, and Die Hard is one of them. And it goes behind the scenes. Really, really interesting.

So that's all.

I'll just leave it there.

Would you recommend that people watch that?

I would recommend that, yes. Yes. Loosely, yes. Okay, so a couple quick things before we get in. Subscribe to the podcast. If you haven't, don't wait any longer. We're still on all the major platforms. You can find us there and give us a review. Helps other people find the podcast. Also, you can follow us on social media, keep up with what we're doing. Facebook, Facebook, Twitter, and instagramureduredesirepdmi. And if you'd like to consume video content, we do have clips of these episodes and other videos up on YouTube. Just search pure Desire Ministries. And then, Nick, we're really excited to announce a new virtual event coming to you, whoever you are. Listener March 5th and 6th. It's the virtual Pure Desire Groups Conference. Why don't you tell the people about it?

Yes, this is content we're super excited about. You know, we got to share it in the fall of 2020 in Dallas, Texas. And this groups conference, our vision. And we still hope this happens one day, but that these would be regional, in person events people could come to. But the way the world is, it's like we didn't want to wait for people to have access to that content when we could actually do them live. So we said, hey, for 2021, let's do this virtually. And the heart behind it is to say, if you are in a group, this conference was designed for you. We believe that it will maximize your group experience. It will help you understand at a deeper level what's going on in your own heart, mind and brain, whether you are the struggler or the one being impacted by someone else's struggle. And if you're a group leader, I think it's just going to give you more tools and ideas and a greater sense of what does it look like to lead my group. Well, and so there's what I love about it, there's a lot of variety of content from kind of the vision philosophical side to the very nitty gritty nuts and bolts of like, how do we handle this in group? And so again, whether you're in the group or the group leader, we designed this for you. And so if you're listening and you're in a group, I hope you'll go to the webpage, you'll check it out and you'll consider attending because you can watch it live with us, right?

Yep.

Or you'll also have content to those sessions for a number of weeks where you could watch them one at a time if you need to. So whatever method people use to consume the content, I just think it's going to be a huge shot in the arm for their group experience and the transformation that they're looking for.

Yep. So you can go to PureDesire.orggroupsconference for more information and you can register for this virtual event. Tickets are currently $59, and it's $19 for any additional viewer who wants to watch on the same screen. So they would need to have that manual is what that is, digital manual. So $19 for that. And we are excited to see you on March 5th. All right, so we're in 2021.

Hallelujah.

Which, I mean, like. And I'm. I'm probably one of the, like, Bahambug people a little bit, because I don't think that 2021 is going to be all that better than. It's not like we just flip a.

Calendar page and somehow the world magically becomes a better place because the numbers are different.

Yeah, it's. It's not.

I wish it would work that way.

That would be amazing. But one of the things that. Especially after going through this episode, we sat down with Tyler and Sherry Chinson and we talked about our resource Connected, which is a marriage resource. And it. For me, I want you to kind of describe the episode, but for me, it just. It underlines the importance of focusing on our marriage as we step into this new year, this new season for so many people. Yeah.

And that's really what this episode is about. We talk a lot about the Resource Connected, but I think underneath it is a desire to see marriages grow and be strengthened. And back to the intro. You know, are you not entertained? Most of us enter into marriage just believing it's going to be fun and entertaining and we're going to enjoy it. And as the years go by, we find it's not always fun or entertaining. And so sometimes we feel like, well, that's what it's supposed to be. So we work really hard to try to get that back.

Right.

Like, we need to take trips or, you know, add some spice to our life and. And those things can be helpful. But if we're not doing. And we bring this up a lot in the episode, the hard work of really exploring what's going on in our relationship. What drives me? What drives you? How do we need to work on our individual stuff and then come to get, like, if, if, if we're just focusing on having fun and being entertained, our marriage probably isn't going to ever grow or get to the place that God designed it to be. But if we're willing to lean in and look under the hood at some of those challenging areas, the growth and transformation that can happen is really exciting and encouraging. So I hope that whether someone is in the midst of a great marriage or a difficult one, that they're encouraged today. And if someone is single and listening, statistically, you'll probably be married at some point. And so hopefully this will give you insights into doing the hard work in relationships. And so even if you're single, maybe there'll be some insights into relationships that would be useful for you as you process life and People around you.

And as you may not know, Tyler is one of the contributing writers to this resource. Tyler and Sherry, who are clinicians, also lead couples through this resource. So they've got tons of expertise and knowledge of this resource. So it's going to be a very helpful episode for sure. So enjoy. Tyler, Sherry, thanks for being here with us. Appreciate it.

Always good to be here, Trevor.

Yeah. Nice to be anywhere right now, right?

Yeah. Good to have you guys in the room.

Yes.

And honestly, I think of all the people who might be listening to this, like a year later, just to be clear, we're still in 2020 when we recorded this one. And so when you hear that, you can just, you know, be like, oh, yeah, right. Also, we live in Oregon, which means we are very shut down compared to some states. But again, this is not a political podcast. We're going to move on today. We're going to talk through one of, really, in my opinion, one of the most underutilized resources that I think that we have at Pure Desire. And it's. And it's our marriage resource that's titled Connected Building a Bridge to Intimacy. I was not here during the time of the creation of this project or the title, but I love both. I think it's awesome. So this resource has a number of contributors. Tyler, you're one of them. And so we wanted to talk through this resource, talk about how it helps and why married couples really do need something like this in their lives. So you guys have gone through it. I know you also take couples through it and have that part of your process in the clinical part. So just tell us a little bit about Connected and why we decided to write something like this.

We decided to write connected three years ago. A small group of clinicians led by Dr. Ted, we recognized the need for a couples resource. At that time, we didn't have one that we would integrate into our 12 month clinical counseling program.

So we were picking and choosing from other resources, other people's resources, and that was fine, but it was, it was a little clunky. I mean, we have a real unique.

Focus at Pure Design because we had Sexy Christians.

Yeah, yeah.

Which. So for our listeners, differentiate the two a little bit.

Connected is designed to identify some of the behavioral patterns that had been established in a person's upbringing, typically that they bring into their marriage. And Connected helps us identify those patterns. Behavioral patterns, cadence of relationship. Where Sexy Christians is designed to. To deepen the relationship.

Yeah.

And it's less of a workbook. Connect or Sexy Christians. Where Connected is a Process book there.

It's. I've. We've spent some time in it. There's a lot to connect it.

Yeah, I've been through both resources, you know, and I feel like Sexy Christians, great content, good read. You know, Ted and Diane tell a lot of great stories, and I think the sort of thing that introduces a lot of these processes could get you down the road. But Connected is very intentional to take you deeper, to take you further into the very concepts that are. Most of them are introduced in Sexy Christians. In Connected, you actually do the work and really dive into those things. So it's almost like introduction and then the class itself.

That's true. Well, Connected has a lot of that clinical side put into it, whereas I'm not sure Sexy Christians really has that piece. It has the biblical piece, definitely. But Connected, we're combining both of those pieces again.

Yeah. I appreciated as I had the chance to review Connected as we were getting ready to publish it, and the concept that all of these tools were being used in the clinical office with clients and counseling situations. But I think a recognition from the team that it didn't need to just stay in that environment, that a workbook that could both supplement our counseling process, but also be used by couples in groups and in different scenarios. So let's talk a little bit about that, because when we look at marriage resources, that's a huge category and field of study, whether we're talking secular or Christian. There's, you know, you go to Barnes and Noble and the marriage section and relationship is enormous. So what would make this resource stand out or be different from a lot of other marriage resources?

I would say Connected is that process workbook. It's not a passive read. You're actually in the work, rolling up your sleeves, doing the work.

So if you're looking for something to just read on vacation, it's probably not Connected.

Find something else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And what we've discovered is there's tremendous power in putting pen to paper. You know, when we have ideas, they can float around, but we capture them when we're working through this process resource. And in doing so, Connected helps a reader identify those relational patterns that were often established early on in life and.

That we bring into the marriage.

Indeed. And then how those patterns impact the marriage provides a guidance for the reader to work through and then move beyond perhaps some unhealthy patterns in their marriage.

Yeah, and this goes deep. I mean, Connected really goes deep.

Right.

It's like handing you a shovel. You know what I mean? Like, you're Going to do some digging here. That's one thing. Me and my wife, I'll be full disclosure, we did the first chapter, argued and thought it was really good, and then we decided not to do it because we weren't ready. But what I have seen, even from that first chapter and even through flipping through it, it's something that I enjoy, too, that both spouses are supposed to have a book and you're supposed to do the work separately and then come together. And so there is that. It's because I think oftentimes when you get into a marriage resource, and if you're reading the book at the same time or doing the work at the same time, it's easy to focus on the other spouse. But really, when you get into this resource, it's actually focused on yourself and then coming together and processing together. Where I come from, where you come from, what are our tendencies? Like, you've already been talking about. And I like that, you know, it almost is a requirement to put more work both individually and then that third step then of coming together and doing the work together. And I. I mean, obviously I'm a fan.

Trevor. Sherry and I had a similar experience in chapter one.

Yeah, I didn't like chapter one.

Yeah, it's like, I mean, getting punched in the mouth clinically and biblically and truthfully is just not always exciting.

It's not a whole lot of fun.

Wow, I'm a terrible husband. That's awesome. Right? But again, what's so cool about the fact that we have a resource like this is that without that recognition that there are tendencies and things that are maybe neglected or things that we're not actually very good at or don't put a lot of intentionality into, personally into our marriage, you're not actually going to grow without doing that.

It's true.

So, I mean, we've already kind of talked around this, I guess, but why would you say people like someone comes to you and says, okay, I'm looking for a marriage resource. Here's where I'm at. Why would you tell them Connected is the thing to do?

Yeah. Yeah. I kind of like to say marriage is a verb, you know, it's not a noun. And if we're not working at making the marriage better and better, we're missing the point. You know, we're missing it. So. And I think we have kind of covered that whole idea of this resource really does talk about some issues, some potential triggers maybe that a lot of marriage resources don't. And it's done in a really safe, a structured way where you can come together and you can talk about it, you can process this stuff separately, but then come together and talk about it. So you have that double whammy.

Let me ask you this. You talk about some things that are deeper, maybe unique. What are some of those things in Connected?

A lot of family of origin stuff, you know, the fun stuff. The fun stuff that you know. One of my favorite things in one of our chapters is talking about how how did you see your parents settle conflicts? You know, how. How did your, your parental units deal with those kinds of issues? And what are the patterns that you have now taken into your relationship? It's just, you know, exploring things from kind of a different angle, taking it from, from a roundabout way, but then really being able to punch what, what you have learned and talk about it. Yeah.

What we've discovered is that awareness is a key component for change.

Yeah.

Without the awareness piece, an individual or a couple is going to struggle with change. And moving in change and Connected helps us understand those, how those behaviors, patterns were established and then how to process through and equip the user with unique ways to change the dynamic of the relationship. More healthy. Yeah.

I think a lot of people talk about marriage and they would say marriage is hard work. Marriage takes hard work. But my guess is most people have never stopped to think about what do we mean by that? Like what hard work. Like, does that mean I've got to clean the house a lot and do the hard work of dishes? Or does that mean when they've offended me or hurt me, I just need to do the hard work of forgiving and moving on and getting to a better place emotionally? And some of those things may be true, but I feel like Connected answers that question of the hard work really is getting to know what's driving me being aware of my family of origin issues, having that awareness of what triggers anger and why. It's not even about the present moment, but it's this whole history of things that maybe have been unaddressed in my life. And that is work to delve into those things. But it's the kind of good work that I think makes for good marriages. And far too many people, it seems in marriage we do just get caught up in the same patterns. We have the same fights, we tend to resolve them the same ways, often with some degree of unhealth. It doesn't really get transformed much. It just gets moved past and then we're back there again in a few months. And so that's one of the Things I appreciated in walking through it. And my wife and I have done a couple chapters and are in that process too. But of looking into. And it says this in the workbook, how what you argue about in your marriage, you know, most of it you'll argue about forever. And I think there's some. John gotta.

That's an encouraging statement right there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But yet married people, we know it's true. It's like we have this. It's over the same stuff. And so rather than trying to teach, you know, one more method to resolve it, it actually, I think, gives you a lot of skill to see why we have those same arguments and how to navigate them a lot better.

Yeah, yeah.

Because if my wife and I are going to have some financial tension from now until we die, like, well, I want to get better at that.

Yeah.

And realizing we may not ever totally solve it because of personality traits and family of origin differences and, you know, one's a saver, one's a spender, and that's never really going to change. So how do we navigate those conversations better? That affirms one another. And that's what I like, is feeling the sense of this hard work can actually produce something. And it's not just kind of a grin and bear it and get through a tough part in our relationship.

One of the things me and my growth group, my community group at our church has been talking about, and this was something I felt like the Lord made really, really clear, especially now when we're recording this in the middle of a pandemic. And man, the political stuff that's been going on, the social justice stuff that's been going on, or injustice that's been going on, there's just a lot going on in the world. And what I've realized that there are things that are just going to happen and there are things that if you don't do something, nothing's going to happen. And like, one of the things that came to mind for me as I was processing through that is that parenting is going to happen whether I want it to or not. My kid's going to need me. I'm going to need to go get him into his car seat, take him out of his car seat, make sure he has food, make sure he's down to sleep. Sleep. Like, if I neglect that, then my son's probably going to die. Right. There are just some things that are not going to take place. But I don't often think that way about my marriage. My marriage is not just going to happen. It's not something that without intentionality, without practice, without habits or rhythms, my marriage is actually going to die. But I don't think of it that way because it doesn't just happen. And so that's what I like about even as this being the first episode in 2021, we really want to push this as something we want people to focus on and be intention, especially with where the world is at, is that unless you actually lean in and make time for and practice and make a priority your marriage, it's not going to happen. You may be playing house and sleeping next to each other and maybe occasionally have sex, that's okay, but like, that's actually not what marriage was created to be. And so I feel like I'm inspiring myself right now just to like get back into connected, but okay, I'm done. I'll step back.

Okay.

Well, what a great invite environment to step into at home in a healthy marriage.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, as you mentioned, Trevor, with the world seeming just spinning and feeling unsafe at times, it's so important to have a healthy marriage because that can be a safe harbor for people.

So we've talked a lot about the resource being some challenges, the hard work that it takes. Are there any prerequisites you guys would recommend that before a couple just dive in on this? Like what. What might you say about the condition of the relationship or other things they've entered into? Is. Is this something they could just kind of step into cold turkey? Or are there some other steps you've encouraged couples take prior to beginning the workbook together?

Pure desire often invites the couple to receive help from us who are in crisis and highly reactive and very deeply wounded. And so our recommendation is not to jump into difficult marital work related to connected and processing the family of origin woundedness. We would recommend the couple do some work and get some traction in recovery, restorative work prior to taking on this resource. If a couple is reactive, reactive toward one another, they're going to have a hard time in this. So there has to be some sense of stability in the relationship because it's.

Hard enough to go through this, make it worse getting into it.

Yeah.

What I hear you saying is if the relationship is a bit on fire, this is more like throwing gasoline onto it. You don't want to throw this at a problem very much. But for couples that are starting to get some stability and maintain some traction in the relationship, that this could become an important tool in their building process.

Definitely. Definitely. Well, when we use connected in our, in our counseling Our clinical counseling, it's usually seven months into the work because, you know, we need to really, really stabilize the people individually. So, yeah, it's.

You need.

You need to have some sort of grounding first.

Yeah. And I think it'll be different, too, based on your context, that if you, like, for me, walking into marriage, we weren't in crisis.

Right.

But that doesn't mean that there isn't maybe seven pillars or unraveled BNB or hope for men. Right. So I think that's what you're talking about by doing that groundwork, if you will. But then the couples who. Because those ones are, you know, meant to go about 10 months.

Right.

Or for you, you know, month seven in a clinical program, you've got counselors who are working with you every month, you know, trained professionals who are helping you walk through this and supporting both spouses at the same time. And so the time. I don't want people to hear that and think like, okay, seven months. And then we can connect it. Like, I would say, get that first layer or that first group in. And then if you're in counseling, obviously, I would ask your, you know, clinicians, is this something you suggest we do or just kind of trust their judgment on it?

Well, yeah. And if you are already in a stable marriage, I mean, if you're already in a good place in your marriage, you just want to go some deeper, do some deeper work. This is a great resource to pick up.

Yeah. I know when we've spoken about it at conferences and events that I've done and this question comes up, that's the answer for couples that have leaned into their healing, whether it's the man who struggled or the wife, and they've gone through some group, whether seven pillars are unraveled and the other spouse has maybe done some work in betrayal and beyond, and they're starting to find some personal health and stability, the behaviors that they were addressing have changed. I think that's maybe another thing to consider. If you're still in a pattern of relapse, it's going to be really hard to go through connected while also trying to navigate relapses and recovery action plans and consequences and all that. But for a lot of people that have gone through group, they would come asking that question, like, boy, we're in such a better place as a couple. I've done seven pillars. She's done betrayal and beyond. What's next? And connected was kind of our answer to say, well, this is what's next. Because you've done such Good work separately. Now, here's a resource to help you do good work together. Because most people that have done pure desire, the majority won't do counseling, a good percentage do, and those that need it are helped. But for many people, the group environment is their primary touch point, which is good, but it also means they've done most of their work by themselves. I go to my group, you go to your group. So Connected is that place to kind of take what we've been learning individually and bring it together. And so for any listeners, that that's where you're at, that you've done a pure desire group, or you're into round two and you're feeling like, man, we've grown, we've changed, things are going well, but you haven't had the opportunity to really do some work together. Connected will, I think, build on that, because the very things you've learned about yourself in group, you'll now have the opportunity to bring into those conversations with your spouse. And that can be a really exciting environment. So if that's where you're at, listeners, we wrote Connected with you in mind for that very reason.

Yes. So stop making excuses. Stop leading. Seven pillars and betrayal and beyond. For the 18th time.

Yes.

Do Connected together. Right.

Okay.

You can keep leading. We're okay.

Yeah, totally. But maybe do this at home and use the conjunction and. Okay, so let's talk about how Connected builds on the experience in group. So how do you guys see that? For both spouses who've been in group, how does Connected build on the work that they've done in those groups?

Yeah, well, as Nick was saying, you know, it's one thing to do the work individually, but it's a whole different level when you bring it together and you work together on this. And when you're applying that to your marriage, we do have some new information in there, but it really does kind of expand on that group curriculum. It allows the couple to kind of take what they've learned individually and now apply. Apply it in a whole new way.

Marriage handles.

Yeah, yeah. It goes deep into, you know, exploring that family of origin impact that you've already talked about in as an individual that now you're going to talk about. How do I bring that into the marriage and how has that affected my reactivity within that marriage? I think also one thing about Connected is the clinicians, as they were writing the chapters, were able to kind of put their own little personality into their chapters and their own little spin on things. And in one particular chapter that I.

Know she's eyeballing Tyler. I can feel it bearing into the side of your skull.

Yeah.

Tyler was able to kind of put together a whole different way of structuring.

Yes. Chapter 5 in Connected helps an individual walk through their story and how their story has impacted them and impacted others. And at the end of chapter five, you have an opportunity to pull all those pieces together into a narrative. And it's really quite a unique approach that, I don't know, the Lord placed it on my heart to write that. And so there's really a clean narrative on how my past has impacted me, how that can rub up against my skin. Spouse in certain ways, and then how to move through that and work through that conflict, for example.

Yeah.

Learning new ways to do relationship.

Yeah. I think one of the other exercises that I really like is writing a letter to your parent, you know, about how that has impacted your marriage. And it's not, you know, we're not bashing our parents or anything like that, but it's coming to that new realization of, this is how it was for me. This is what I learned how to marriage. You know, that's. That's how I learned it. But now, how do I want a marriage now? So.

And for young couples who have young children, it's an incredibly powerful exercise.

I got it, Tyler. We'll go through it.

Just dropping subtle hints for you. Seriously.

Now my skull is getting bared into for the.

As you guys talk, it reminds me of what I found intriguing about Connected to that most of us have not sat in a counseling room with Ted, Diane Roberts, or with you, Tyler, or with Harry Flanagan. And even someone that has with one of those counselors hasn't been with all of them. So it really is an opportunity. If you felt like, I wonder what they do with couples. I wonder what kind of questions they ask. Like, well, read Connected, and you'll get to do some of the exercises that they are actually doing in the counseling office. And so if you've never done counseling, this is kind of a way to enter into that level of depth and hear what we do in our office. So I think that is unique that you get perspective from our counselors. You see what they have been doing year in and year out as we work with all these clients. So yet another reason to check out the resource.

Yeah. And as I'm listening to you guys, what is coming to mind for me, the way I'd say it, is that in Seven Pillars Unraveled Betrayal Beyond Hope for Men, you. You start to understand and identify your story like Actually see what your story is. And then Connected is a way to process that story inside your marriage with your spouse. Like, I think of how many guys I've been in group with who know my whole story and have been part of that process, but my wife's not in on all of those meetings, you know, and I don't know about any of the listeners, but I have a hard time downloading everything I shared in a two hour meeting every week to my wife. And so not that I'm sharing what other people are sharing, just what my own experience, but this is a way to actually get the best of both worlds that I'm, I know my story and I'm now processing it and I get to do it with the person I do life with.

Yeah, I mean, we usually don't talk to our spouse about what happens in group. Right. You really don't talk about that learning that you've, that you've had in that resource. So now you have that opportunity.

Yeah. Or like for me, coming home from group and my wife says, how was group? Oh, it was really good. Oh, why was it good? Like we had good conversation and good sharing. Like, you just don't think in that moment what were the insights I had? And I think in Connected you do bring a lot of the insights you've had about your family of origin and maybe core beliefs that you've listened to, and now you're getting to share them in a constructive way with your spouse and they'll kind of see, oh, this is why you thought group was so good, because you've been learning and understanding these things and now I get to hear them.

This is why you don't do the dishes the way I want you to do.

So is the connected resource similar to other pure desire resources in that it's done with a group or is it different in that kind of context?

Connected was written for couples. It can certainly be done walked through in group. The clinicians, actually, the clinical team actually walked through Connected earlier this year. So the couples would go home, do a chapter, we would come back as a group and process through each chapter. And that was incredibly powerful. We got to know one another at a deeper level as people were open and honest and vulnerable with, with their story. And so I thought that was very helpful. So can it be done in group or as a couple? Yes to both.

Yeah, yeah. I think if you're doing it with a group, you, you, you may want to be friends and have friends that.

Have been through their own recovery, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I Think. Well, just from what I've seen, you know, throughout, it is. It wasn't specifically written like a seven pillars are unraveled to be played out in a context of a group. But you're saying that it still can be.

Absolutely.

And you know, I feel like even just looking at some of the questions and some of the conversations, you'd have to, like, agree with your spouse. This is what we will and will not be sharing during this group meeting. Because again, it's talking about building a bridge to intimacy. And intimacy is being known and fully knowing completely. And so depending on how well you want to be known, your marriage, your spouse, you in that community of people, just be cognizant of that.

Exactly.

Yeah. And I think that's the difference in a group environment, like with seven Pillars and unraveled, you do your work and you come and you share your answers with a group. I think connected would be better that, yes, the couples do their work together, but I wouldn't come to a group setting and just go through everybody's answers. I would generalize it more to say, hey, what is a couple stood out to you this week? What did you learn about each other? What was a connection point that you could share with the rest of us? And so giving couples that freedom to know that if I write it down, I'm not gonna have to then share something with the group, because I think you'll have so much self editing going on during the week that people won't maybe take it to the depth. So I think that's the group environment I'd suggest. Encourage everyone to do their work on their own, share just one another as a couple. And then in the group environment, stay a little more general in terms of what did you learn? What did you like? And I think that could be a really positive environment.

And I. It's not lost on me how powerful it is to work on your marriage in the midst of other marriages as well. Like that.

There's accountability too.

Yeah, there's this tribe of people working together on their marriages can be really powerful. Okay, so let's get maybe a little bit more specific. When a couple goes through this resource, how does it actually increase? I mean, that's a great question. So many people have, like, how do I increase intimacy? So how does connected help couples increase their intimacy?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, again, it helps us understand why do I do the things I do? Why am I reactive to these strange things that seem to have no connection to why I'm reacting? The way I'M reacting. And I think it helps you develop that more empathetic understanding of each other. It's a good word. There is that Tyler refers to it often, that language of intimacy that you can learn, you can develop and connect. It I think really helps us develop that language of intimacy with each other. Kind of knowing what each other's language of intimacy is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Language of intimacy is. Is a concept that through the years I've been doing this just came to the surface and makes a lot of sense to me and the people that we work with. Language of intimacy is an expression of thoughts, feelings and emotions. It's actually a heart connection. And if we didn't grow up knowing the language of intimacy, we're going to struggle in our adult life and marriage. So that language of intimacy can be developed and connected. Helps the individuals and the couple do that.

When there's something to be said for those awareness, you know, obviously your own self awareness. But also when I've become more aware of my wife's triggers, family of origin issues, her ability and she would say this, that her ability to maybe share what's driving her in the moment. She's not good in the moment. But if you let her like with connected reflect that, think about it, she can go to those deeper places and then share with me like, oh, that had never occurred to me. Like when we're talking about our finances, it's actually making you feel these things that on the surface seem to have nothing to do with finances, but it's more about trust and a sense of family and togetherness. And when we've had those moments, there is a intimacy that comes of. I actually know what's going on in your head a little bit more. Not that we'll ever completely understand our spouses, but I think we can certainly grow towards that when we go to some of these deeper places.

I think part of what you're alluding to there too is being able to understand it ourselves. I mean, you know, for your wife, for me, I have to be able to understand why I am reacting that way. You know, what the heck was that about? And then to be able to express it and to be heard and to be empathized with, to be understood.

One of the. One of the terms that I've been learning a lot about recently is self compassion. And I think that if we don't actually know our story and know why we do the things that we do and why certain things evoke certain responses, we actually can't experience self compassion. If I can Tie this is why I react to this situation in marriage is actually because of a wound I have from my parents or another relationship. And so I think that is one benefit of doing something like this, where you're diving into your story more. But then also what I've learned is to the degree that you're able to show self compassion is the degree you can show compassion to other people. And so it's also that what you're talking about, Nick, that you actually get to know a little bit more about your spouse and why they're the way they are and their family of origin and level of brokenness and health. And so it's like this a double whammy in a good sense where you're getting more understanding of yourself, able to give self compassion and then also able to extend more compassion for two reasons. One, you understand your spouse and you also understand yourself more.

Yeah, great point. Healthy marriages are a collaborative. It's of understanding and knowledge.

It's a team sport.

Did you like that one?

I felt like you liked that one a little bit.

It's a team sport.

Well, and I think the truth that when I better understand myself and better understand you as myself spouse, our ability to come together before God. And I know in connected there's some exercises that involve praying for your spouse and with your spouse and, and creating that intimacy not only between you and I, but you and I and God in our relationship as well. And I think most couples, if we're honest, we not only want to grow in our marriage, but we know that that element of faith, of including God, like we want that there. But a lot of couples just have never been given a good pattern of how to connect spiritually, how to pray together or pray for one another. And so that's another, I think, rich opportunity here is the way that our intimacy with one another also leads us into deeper intimacy with the father and what he's doing in our lives and in our marriage. So another dynamic there of the workbook. So let's say as we're, you know, getting towards the end here, listeners, we've got some that are, man, they're feeling ready, they're going to go order the workbooks. They're thinking this, this is exactly what our marriage needs. What are some things that they should be prepared for as they go through Connected?

I think, I mean, just be prepared to go really deep and be ready for it and be eager for it. You know, be really, be really wanting that deepness, that connection to happen. I think it's important to Be truthful in your answers, but I think it's also important to be gentle in your answers.

Grace and truth, right?

Yes, definitely. And, you know, part of the whole process is learning to be aware of yourself, learning to be aware of your own triggers and what's going to trigger you. When we did go through Connected as a. As a counseling group, you know, I got triggered in ways I really was not expecting, and I had to really pull back. It was not. It was weird. So to. To understand that that's going to happen or that might happen, and then to give yourself the compassion to work through that.

Yeah. I would also say prepare for discovery about self, about your spouse, about the relationship, and God's design for marriage. There are components within Connected that will help the couple gain a deeper understanding.

I think that couples coming into this need to be prepared for tension and friction. And this is what I've learned growing up as an athlete. If you want to be in better shape, you have to work hard, and you have to do hard work. That doesn't feel good. Like, if you want to be physically fit and let's say you want to run a 5K, like, I mean, some people are just like freaks of nature. Like, next stumble over here, like Mr. Long Legs, who can just run and run and run, run and run and run and run.

And 5K is just the warmup.

Right?

Yeah.

What you meant.

Okay, so I like, for me, I'm not a runner. That's not. That's not what I want to do, what I feel like I should do. But if I want to do something like a 5K, I'm going to have to do the hard work, and my body is actually going to have to feel the effects of that hard work in order to get there. And I think that if we treat our marriage the same way, that understanding that, that tension, that friction, those really tough conversations that maybe are triggering that we have to take a break, right. Retreat to our own camps and then come back for another summit. Like, that's okay. So just be prepared for that, because that actually is going to do more for your marriage than you realize. And so if you do experience that, don't give up. That's what this is actually created to do, is create that friction so that you better understand each other and really can relate to each other better as a married couple.

And to not let that idea scare you off doing the book, because it's not a. You're not going to have that feeling all the time, but it is that sense of growth. It's that growth pattern in that marriage.

Yeah. I was thinking about, as I heard all of your answers, the importance of our mindset that if we know something's going to be hard, but if our mind says, oh, and I'm not going to enjoy it, it's going to be difficult. Well, often that's how it feels. I was thinking of the running illustration.

That because you're describing as a runner.

This is going to be awful. I'm going to hate it. You probably will, just because that's where your brain is at. But if, if you come to a place saying this will. There'll probably be points that are hard, but it's going to be good. We're going to learn and grow. And if you keep that, that positive perspective on why you're doing this challenging work, that's good, then it leads to growth and it does lead to good. But. But having your mindset kind of right as you start, I think is very important, whether you're going through connected or exercising or doing any kind of hard work in life. Just what's my mindset? And if, if we bring that positive mindset before God and believing he's going to use it, I think really great things can come out of this study.

Indeed, we as men are not designed to avoid difficult conversation. I think we're designed to step into that space of dissonance, if you will, and learn and grow and just become those people that God designed us to be.

And I mean, this is. Some people may disagree, but I believe the way the design you're talking about, that God designed men to lead into that and women to follow that. Married couples, and not that. That'll always play out that way because there may be a wife who's like, look, we gotta talk. Let's do this. And so I think, you know, be aware that it can go both and. But that, that is the design that we would together step into this as a united couple. And again, that mindset, I'm walking in knowing that I'm doing work for the benefit of my marriage. And then we walk. Because I said this recently on another podcast we did about walking into, like, family functions, if you walk in united, you're much more likely to walk out united. But if you walk in separate, boy, it's gonna take a lot for you to be united on the way out. I think that would apply to this too. Understand, you're walking in together because you want to walk out better together. So obviously, if you've been married for any amount of time, you know, it's difficult and you know that it's good and it's the right work but it doesn't happen without intentional work. It doesn't happen without directional work. And so this is why we created Connected. We created it to build a bridge to the intimacy that God created you for. Like not just what you think intimacy is but actually how God intended your marriage to be. So Tyler, thanks for being a part of writing it. Thank you both Tyler and Sherry for being here with us.

Thank you. It's been a privilege.

Thank you both to have you guys.

And wherever you're at on your journey, Pure Desire is here to help create a road map to your healing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, go to PureDesire.org and start your healing journey today. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do it. If you're already subscribed, please write a review. It helps others find the podcast. And lastly, never stop being healthy.