202 - Stories Of Healing: Asher & Ashley Sears

You're listening to the Pure Desire Podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. Hey, hey, hey. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 202 of Pure Desire Podcast. You're joining me as always, my co host, Nick Stumbo.

A couple of wise guys, eh? Okay.

I'm like, I'm thinking, do it again.

I don't know if I can recreate.

I just wanted to do it again.

That's just like pure genius in the moment. There's a couple of wise guys, eh?

Okay, so what's that?

Well, I associate. I don't know if they originated it, but I associate it with the Three Stooges.

Okay, got it.

You know, Larry, Curly, and Mo and the one gal say a couple of wise guys, eh? And then, you know, they do their whole slapping each other around kind of bit. Oh, man, that show probably wouldn't play very well. 20.

I don't think so.

A lot of physical violence and comedy that just. Yeah, 50s and 60s doesn't translate very well.

Totally different. Well, today we had some newer friends to Pure Desire. I mean, I know they've been around for a while, but we've just personally gotten to know them. Recently we had Asher and Ashley Sears on the podcast, and we got to hear their story of healing.

Yes. And those are their real names.

They were Leash. Yes.

For the podcast. And it is. It's part of. They don't tell it on the podcast, but I know that's actually some of the humor of how they met, like, one friend. Oh, your name's Ashley. You should meet my friend Ashley. And they go out on a date, and all these years later, now they're married, 16 years later, telling their story of healing. I think what people really enjoy about this story is that, like so many of our testimonies, these are just real people. They're not flashy, they're not trying to put on a show. They're just telling the story of their lives and their family and their marriage. And in it, I think we can all find a lot of points. We say, oh, that's kind of something I've experienced, or that's something I've had to deal with. And that's why we do these, because we want people to hear. Even though no one's story is alike, no two stories are the same. I think at the heart of so many of our stories, we do find commonality. We find those common bonds to say, oh, we're really in this together. As we learn to trust God and find healing. And so I think there's just a lot of encouragement that comes out of the podcast today.

Absolutely. A couple quick things before we get to it. Subscribe to the podcast. If you haven't, do it. We're on all the major platforms now, including Audible, and if you can give us a review, it helps other people find the podcast and it means a lot to us. I will tell you. I frequent, I go on and I'll check the ratings just to see every once in a while. And just hearing people share how meaningful the conversations and the guests that we have on are, it means a lot. And that stuff does really help people find the podcast. Also, follow us on social media, earedesirepdmi, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And then remember, we have full episodes now up on YouTube. Just search Pure Desire Ministries. All right, here is our conversation with Asher and Ashley Sears sharing their story of healing. Asher and Ashley. Yes.

That.

That is the cut. The name of a married couple. Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

I honestly, I remember the first time that Nick mentioned you guys and I was just like, who? Asher and Ashley. Oh, okay. That's a married couple. Okay, cool. That must have been. I'm, I'm wondering, let me just ask this question up front. On the wedding invitations, was that weird? Did that look weird at all?

Do you want to know the truth? We didn't have wedding invitations.

Well, there you go.

Now we know why. Now we know why. Right? No one came to your wedding and it's because we didn't want to confuse people.

So before we get too off track, Asher and Ashley, welcome. Take a minute or two and just introduce yourselves to our audience. Tell us a bit about where you live, kids, jobs, all that. And then you know, Ashley, share a little bit about the nonprofit or the organization that you are developing called Stories Unveiled and the conference that is a part of that.

Well, I'm Asher.

And I'm Ashley. And we've been married for. It'll be 16 years this year.

Yep. Coming up in a few months in July, actually.

We have three kids. We have a high schooler, a high school girl and two elementary age boys just a year apart.

Yeah.

We live in Boise, Idaho.

Coming up on nine years. Yeah, nine years.

Nine years this year. Yeah. As far as Stories Unveiled. Yes, Nick, you are right. I am the founder of an organization called Stories Unveiled and we provide a platform for women to share their stories of redemption and hope. In a nutshell, that's what it is we do that through events every year. And yeah, we, I, I created this platform so women can share stories of brokenness and hurt and just to be vulnerable and to be real and in. In the process, show people that it's okay to not be okay because there's a God who can redeem any story.

Yes.

And so that's what we do every year. We partner with local churches because that's super important to get people plugged in. If they don't have a local church, they can come to this conference, and then they can get plugged into a local church. We partner with corporate sponsors, we partner with nonprofits, and we help support other nonprofits in the area as well.

And that's what I loved when I first heard about Stories Unveiled and got connected. You guys, was just that attitude of, in telling our stories is how we're healed and how others can find healing, because that does share such common language with what we're trying to do at Pure Desire is just talk about things people aren't talking about and give a platform where we can hear one another's stories because of how that does release people from shame. It helps them face something that maybe they weren't able to. And yeah, so I love that on a, you know, on a larger scale, covering a whole lot of topics. That's what Stories Unveiled is all about as well.

Yeah, right, right.

And I think there's something unique, too. I mean, knowing this growing up in the church, like, there's a unique piece, too. I think, from what I have heard and witnessed with women in my life, that there's this, like, we have to act as if we have it all together as a wife, as a mom, as a woman. And I think that it's just. It's cool to see a platform that's allowing women to just say, you know what? That's not really what it's like. Life's actually a lot harder and more messy. And I think that what I love is when that vulnerability is put out there, it actually is way more attractive to people than putting on this. I am the perfect mom. My Instagram feed does represent my life top to bottom. You know, not that it's bad to present a good side, but I think oftentimes we just look at that. So I'm a fan.

That's exactly what it is. I grew up in the church as well. I grew up churched. I, you know, accepted Jesus and I was little and baptized and all of those things. And it was the culture that I saw created within church. Actually within church women especially, that, yeah, we had to have it all together. We were the glue. We were whatever. But that we had to present ourselves to showing up on Sunday mornings in our Sunday best, having it all together, even if we were fighting with our husband in the car, even if our kids were a hot mess on the way or whatever it is, whatever week you had, you still have to present yourself that way on a Sunday morning. And that's just simply not real life.

Totally. So we're going to dive into what was your real life for a period of time in your marriage. But when we do these, these stories of healing, it's really an exploration of when sexual brokenness really became revealed and then what it looks like to have processed through that, both on the recovery side and also the healing from betrayal, trauma. So, and I maybe start with you, Asher. When did you realize that sexual brokenness was an issue? And then how you guys figured, okay, we really need to start seeking help for it?

Well, it's actually funny that the same time I realized sexual brokenness was an issue was actually the same time she realized that it was an issue in my life. And it was told the story before about a. I was watching a Victoria's Secret fashion show while she was taking care of our very young daughter on the, on the floor in front of the tv. And she just got really uncomfortable with it and asked me to turn it off. And I was like, well, why. Why would I do that? I want to watch it. And so that just really. And I was a brand new Christian at the time, didn't really know that, that I had an issue and that it was something that was wrong. And so that was when it became apparent through some, some fight and conversation afterwards. And just her being able to use. Not use my newfound faith against me, but. But use it to explain to me things that she had known from growing up in the church that, that it wasn't okay. It wasn't right. And so that was the first real step in understanding that what I've been doing for so long wasn't okay. And then, then it was. Didn't really rear its ugly head until we'd been married for some time longer. And my. My behaviors were. My addiction was manifesting itself in outward behaviors. Then that became, you know, finally she got to be fed up with and just kind of drew a line in the sand. And that's when I realized, man, this is starting to get out of control. And so it was really at that point in time that was the big catalyst for starting to understand that what I was doing was not okay and that I was moving towards needing help.

So, Ashley, in that, I mean, can you kind of talk me through that experience from your end? I mean, you're sitting there on the floor, you know, with this human being you have to care for, and it's so much responsibility. And then you're witnessing your husband watch this. What was that like for you?

Yeah, so I was, I don't know, 18 months or so postpartum. So our daughter was young, and, yeah, I was on the floor playing with her, and he had this Victoria's Secret fashion show on the television. And I just started growing more and more uncomfortable the less and less they were wearing, to be honest. And I just started thinking, this is not something I want to be watching. I could care less. This is not as young as our daughter was even at. No, she wasn't even two. I still didn't want that being something that she grew up thinking that was. That needed to be her identity. That's what her worth was in. Or I just started having, obviously, these, like, you know, bigger picture ideas, and I just simply looked at them. I said, can we turn this off? I don't want to watch this. I'm uncomfortable. Can we turn this off? And he said, no, I don't want to. And that just launched into this whole argument, like he said, which then did lead to conversations and such, but over, why. Why wouldn't you turn this off? And it became very clear to me, I would say over the course of the next day or so, I don't know that in that very moment, that it became clear to me, but I did start to realize, like, oh, this might be a problem like this. Why wouldn't. Why wouldn't he turn it off if it was anything other than, you know, I don't know. So I. We started to walk down this road of what's. What's really going on.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well. And I like what you guys are sharing because I feel like we hear this a lot from couples and people in groups or counseling that we often enter into relationships or marriage. And early on, there is kind of some naivety about, well, this won't really be a problem, or I'm sure they don't have this issue, or, you know, once we're married, it's not going to be a big deal. And then you're kind of confronted with it in marriage. It's like, oh, this didn't just fix itself, and it does matter, and it is something we need to talk about. And I think it just puts into words what maybe many couples have experienced. So I'm curious for you, Asher. Like, there's a difference between realizing something is not okay because it's maybe makes our wife angry and they're hurt by it. And so we're motivated to say, okay, this isn't okay because they're mad versus kind of a more personal side of realizing for ourselves this isn't healthy. For me, I don't like what it's doing to my thoughts and my brain and whether or not it makes her mad. Yeah, that's important, too. But there's my personal side of what it's doing to me. What was it like? Or when would you. How would you describe kind of coming to that realization? Not just I want to avoid it because it makes her mad versus having your own understanding of what it was doing to you and in your own heart and mind.

Yeah. So the. I'm not exactly sure how to pinpoint exactly when it happened, but I know that it was. So it was not too long after we had, you know, there was an encounter where she told me, hey, this is not okay, and you need help. Right. And so, again, it was kind of on the tail end of finding out that it wasn't okay with her. And then that sent me on this journey of, okay, well, I need to get help for this. And it was on that journey, getting to a place where I was able to share with people that I didn't know, some of the things I was struggling with. And that actually opened the door, I think, to once. Once I started sharing those things, it started to help open the door to my understanding of that. That, hey, oh, wow, like, this isn't okay for me. And then I think as I spent more time in the church, because again, you know, that that Victoria's Secret thing was early on in life, in our married life, and early on in my walk with Christ. And so as I spent more and more time in church and studying the Word and in life group and doing these things, God started to reveal to me that it was actually not okay for me personally. And so it led to times then where I remember sitting in the seat at church and just inwardly crying out to God, just take this from me, please just take this from me. Because I couldn't take it anymore. I felt so helpless that I couldn't do anything to rid myself of it. And so I would just cry out. And that was really the formation of understanding. Like, man, I have a problem. But unfortunately, to that point, I hadn't been given the tools and the few tools that I did have, I didn't take advantage of. And as I, as I came to, as I came to go through recovery, you know, I actually found out that, that even though my spirit was crying out for help and wanting to be free of it, my flesh, I didn't want to be free of it. It was my comfort, it was my security.

Yeah. So, I mean, I think when we get to that point and you talked about it a little bit where.

You.

Know that this is wrong, you know that some things need to change and you know, I feel like at those, at that point a lot of us will look for what book or what video or what person can I reach out to, what counselor could help me. But I think in a lot of ways we actually are just reaching for something that's like simple, you know what I mean? Like looking for something maybe with some training wheels that isn't too risky or scary. And so what were some of those strategies for you of actually creating sobriety or starting this recovery journey that didn't actually end up working for you?

Well, actually, so the first one, I went to a local recovery group that was near to my house and that was actually the first place that I had felt comfortable enough to share any of this. But it was only because I didn't know a person there. And so the things that had kept me from being able to share this prior to that, the what are they going to think? They know who I am, so now they're going to think of me differently. They weren't there, so I was able to share it. Unfortunately, when it came time for the rubber to meet the road on that and to actually step into the portion of the program that got deep that dug into the issue. I don't have time for that. I can't make a year long commitment. I can't do that right now. And so that didn't work. And then the next things that really didn't work were trying harder and praying harder.

Those didn't work for you. That's crazy, right?

It was so funny to hear that, you know, in the program. But, but yeah, because that was just. And that was it. And that was encompassed in that crying out to the Lord in church and just, God, just take this from me. But you know, those were the, those were the types of things that I tried that just, yeah, didn't work.

And how about for you on the spouse side, Ashley? I know there was a time period between like this initial discovery and then a period of years later, where you guys really leaned into your healing journey, which we're going to talk about in a minute. But in kind of that. In between time, were there strategies or approaches that now, as you look back, you realize that this was not helping me or him in trying to pursue purity or deal with this issue?

Yeah, very much so. The praying, the praying harder, you know, talking more like, reading your Bible more, trying harder. All of those, especially in and of themselves, they just. They kind of just end up falling flat if you don't have the support and you don't do the work. And there's so many other things, obviously, that go into it. And I mean, our. From my side of things, it was. It is a bit more compartmentalized. I didn't realize that for over a decade, this is. This was just like an ongoing struggle. This was just something he was dealing with day in and day out. And I didn't know that. I would say there was a handful of times in our decade of marriage that it would pop up for me, like, on my side, where he would. I would find out about something, he would tell me about something, or I would find something, whatever. I would. I would probe harder because I felt like something was off. I always had this, like, weird feeling, you know, and so it would come up for me, and I was really naive. On the spouse side, I will say, I really just thought, this is your deal. You do, you figure it out and then we'll be fine. And that's like. That's like a whole other side of things, you know, with the spouse dealing with stuff. And so every time, the handful of times it would come up, I really thought, well, maybe you should pray about it more or maybe, I mean, I really was even one, like, perpetuating that because I didn't know what all went into it until, you know, a little bit longer down the road, obviously. But for me, I know that not talking about it and not sharing it and not telling people in my life as far as my side of things was definitely something that was not working. Because vulnerability and sharing these things is.

Actually what has helped, which I just want to highlight. And to me, that's what's cool is. And I know we'll get to this question later, but I'm gonna make a connection now to, like, what you're doing with stories unveiled is for that exact reason, because you lived that life, which I'm not. Like, this kind of like just a finger pointing. Yeah. Later in the episode, we'll talk about it for sure.

Well, and we all Kind of live in that reality of our normal, and we don't hear other couples talking about it. And most churches aren't talking about it. And so when it comes up in our marriage, I think we kind of try to deal with it and like, okay, let's. Well, you stop doing that. And, yeah, I promise I'm going to stop doing it. And we do our best and we don't tell anyone. And meanwhile, it just keeps on causing issues and becoming increasingly worse. And so I know for you guys, there was a time and point where it's like there were some major changes that started to happen, where things began to click and fall into place. And so tell us a little bit about that. Like, when do you feel like you really turned the corner and went from just managing this problem to really finding some healing? What did that look like for you guys?

Well, so for me, it was. It was the Conquer series. A gentleman had. Had brought Pure Desire Ministries to our church, and I'd never heard of it before, and he was very passionate about it. And so he brought the Conquer series and actually was on staff at the church at the time. And so the pastor brought that to the staff and said, hey, what do you think about this? And so they watched a DVD individually and brought it back and said, yeah, this is great. Let's do it. And so Ashley came to me, not knowing exactly the depth of where I was at at that point in time, and said, hey, you know, you're a key part of the church. You should check this out and go and be supportive of it. And so I was like, okay, sounds good to me. So I went. And it was just that first video that it hit me like a Mack truck that, wow, like, this is legit. This is real. And it was the first time that I had ever experienced that hope that my spirit that had been crying out to God to take this from me, was just elated because I felt like I finally had an outlet, a way to. To be. To be free. And that was the first step. And so I went through the entire. It was. It was five weeks. We watched a video a week and discussed it. And that was the first time that I really felt like there was something out there that could help me. Because before that, I didn't know. You know, Trevor, you talked about seeking out the counseling or book or this or that. And I didn't even have. My wheels were just spinning. I didn't have any sort of traction in any direction. And so to have that Conquer series was key. And so then it was after the Conquer series that I was all in on the seven pillars that he was bringing after that. And yeah, it was in those Conqueror series and then afterwards, the seven pillars that I really, just really started to find freedom and being able to start the path towards living in that freedom and being able to find victory in my life.

Yeah. Can we just pause to say how cool is it that you talked about this passionate volunteer or person within the church that's like, we got to do this, and it's bringing it to their church and what an impact that made, I mean, on Asher and Ashley's life and your whole church, because someone had it on their heart and did something with it. And I'm just guessing there's a lot of our listeners that, you know, maybe God's tapping you on the shoulder saying, you're that person in your church. And we, you know, we want to do it out of grace and love, but.

Right.

Sometimes it takes that passionate volunteer to say, man, this is so good. Could we do this? And so at some point in this process, Asher, you must come home and reveal to Ashley, like, hey, what you thought is all better has not been. And I've had issues. How did you do that? And what was that like for you, Ashley? And what response was there for you after that revelation in your life, Ashley?

Well, so I know that stated several times like, you might want to go home and reveal everything to your life, but don't do it wait for six months. But the Lord does for us what we can do for ourselves. Right. And so I actually, I came home after probably the third week watching the third video and was just elated, walking on the clouds and just couldn't speak high enough about the program. And so then she then was like, well, okay, but. So why are you so excited about this?

Yeah, I was like, what's the deal? And we had gone to counseling. We had done counseling. And I don't know about books necessarily, but. And he had done this other recovery group. And so there were other things that we had done. And I mean, at this point, I really thought that we were doing well and that he was really just there as, like, a support. But yeah, like he said, he came home every week just different. He came home just very different. And it made me happy. And I was like, that's great. I'm so glad you're enjoying this. I didn't quite know why. And so, yeah, it was after a few weeks that I just finally was like, what's the deal? Why are you so happy? Like, if this is something that's behind you. Why I felt. I could sense that there was, like, an air about him that was freer. And I couldn't understand why, if he had been doing so well before, you know. And so it caused me to question. And, you know, I had watched a couple of the Concord DVDs because I was on staff, like he said. And so I had watched them as just being a staff member. And so I knew that the disclaimer was there. And I actually always wondered about that. And he just. He came home and he just was like, well, I need to tell you something. And literally, again, for. I don't know how. I don't know how many times, you know, into our marriage, I just felt like everything started to crumble again, you know, to be disclosed to that. No, actually, all these years or all these months or whatever the time lapse is, I haven't been totally honest. I have been struggling. I have been doing this, I have been doing that, and I have not been free of this. It actually is still very much an issue when, especially in my mind, we were good. I mean, I thought we were good. And so that was probably actually the hardest disclosure. That was the hardest time because I said it was a rollercoaster through our 10 years at that point, marriage. That was probably the hardest one because I really did think that we were doing well. He was a deacon on the board at the time I was on staff. We were very involved. And I was. I was blindsided, completely blindsided by that one. And I was angry, I was resentful, I was bitter. I. I was past the point of wondering if it was me and anything that I had done because so many years into this, these are things that I had learned that it wasn't me, but I was still mad. And it got to the point where I just was like, figure it out or I'm done. I'm not doing this.

Yeah. So obviously you figured something out because you're sitting next to each other and maybe holding hands, I don't know. But you're here telling your story. So obviously that means that freedom took place, that there was healing, there was freedom, there was a progression in this, where this no longer is something that's active in your life. So. So let's start with Asher on the addiction side. What are some. Because obviously the Conquer series kick started that for you. But five weeks, as we say, a lot is not enough. You know, that's just scratching the surface. So as you went in through seven Pillars and continued on your journey what are some key elements that you found that really established freedom and not only established it, but have helped maintain it moving forward?

Well, I think that the. Let's see, the first thing that really helped to establish that was. So the group guidelines are. At the very beginning of the seven Pillars, we actually have spent a lot of time in what we called life groups, small groups, home groups, family groups, whatever you want to call them. And the group guidelines was something that we used to be able to create a space that was safe for people to share. And so that was a key thing for me to be able to understand that in these groups I could finally start sharing the deep, dark, painful, hurtful, just all the things. All the dark things. And that was really the first step to freedom, was to being able to share those things. And then I would say from there it moved because. So it was good that I had. I was out from under the shame of it in the group. But then once you were outside of the group, it was okay. You know, I would walk down the halls of the children's ministry to go get my kids after group, and I would have my books turned backwards and. And I'd hide the. What it was so nobody would ask me what I was doing because I was scared to death to tell him I was there for a sexual addiction group. Right. And so. But God just kept at work through the program and through being able to escape from that shame to where then it became. I held those books out there proud that that's what I was doing. And. And even then when people said, well, what are you doing? What's your group this Wednesday night? And so I would share with them exactly what it was. And. And that being able to come out from underneath the shame, I would say is the biggest thing that was the catalyst for the freedom. And then I think the next part to being able to continue to live in the freedom is bringing it to other people, bringing what I have experienced, the strength and the hope that I've experienced through it to other men. And. And so, plus, it's so great to. To not just be a one and done and go through a seven pillars and then be done, but. But being able to continue to go through it and to continue to learn. And so, yeah, I mean, that was. That was. Feel like there was another part that I wanted to add to that.

I mean, those are good. Those are good by themselves, for sure. Ashley, what about you? Because. And this is. I think one of my favorite things to hear in people's stories is when the betrayed spouse Realizes that they also need healing because it is so far fetched that I need. You're kidding me, right? I didn't do this. I didn't bring this. I was playing with our kid on the floor, not watching this, you know. So for you, what was that? I mean, what number one, what helped you get to the point where you realized you needed your own healing and then what are some key things that you found in your own journey that have been super helpful?

Yeah, no, you are right. The very first thing, like I said was to tell him, this is you, this is your deal. Figure it out and then we'll be fine. I really thought for a long time that this was his issue. And once he figured it out, we would be okay. And it very quickly proved that that wasn't the case. Because here's what happened is he started to find freedom. He started to find healing. He found himself a community of men that he could be vulnerable with and he could get healing with. He could gain tools that he needed to try and move through this. And I didn't have to be his accountability. He was accountable to other men who were struggling just like he was struggling. And it was such a good thing that I could literally see at that point, it wasn't even talk. I mean, because at this point talk didn't matter to me. I didn't believe a lot of what he said. And so. But I saw it. I saw the transformation, I saw the behavior change. I saw so many things within our marriage that shifted for the good. And I still was mad and I was still angry and I was still bitter. And I realized at that point that ok, well maybe I'm going to need to do some work too. Because this isn't just his deal. I mean, it started as his deal. I didn't marry into this. I was not, I didn't ask for any of this. However, it's now, when you got married, we became one. And his issues then became my issues and now he's working through them to find healing. I clearly need to work through this stuff to find healing too. From the trap, the trauma, the betrayal, all of the things and forgiveness. And so for me it was just that realization of like he's going, like he's moving forward in his healing and I'm still stuck. I'm stuck back here. And so I just started to seek out support, you know, groups in this realm. The Lord really brought one woman in particular, but a couple women over the years where conversations would spark and it would be so abundantly clear that we were talking about the same thing that our husband struggled with without actually ever even bringing it up.

Right.

And it was one conversation in particular that I just said, all right, I'm just. This might be weird, but does your husband struggle with this? You know, and it was like, yeah, and it was this. It was. All of a sudden shame from the wife perspective was lifted, and we could openly share about our struggles and our issues and where we were at. And so it was. It was then that a whole community opened up to that. When the man struggles, there's somewhere potentially, if he's married, a wife that is also dealing with this. And so I was able to walk through that and learn what forgiveness looks like and learn what healing looks like and freedom from. From my own bondage of feeling like at any given moment, my husband. The other shoe could drop or whatever, and how to. How to work through that and how we can do this together.

Yeah. That's such a valuable point about both spouses needing to work through shame and knowing how to share their story and be real with others. I. I know in my own story, my wife and I had been in the groups and the counseling for a year, and at the end of which, we shared our story with our church. And I thought that it was probably going to be a really hard day for my wife and I, just. Because what had been a very private journey we were now going to make public. And I felt like it was the right thing to do, but I still thought it was going to be hard. But looking back, my wife said that it was, like, her favorite day of the whole process. And I'm like, what on earth? Like, why? I didn't understand, because I'm like, now our whole church knows what we walked through. And she said, because now it wasn't a secret anymore. And I hadn't realized that, that even in our healing journey, you know, we've been in really good health and recovery for a year, but in a lot of ways, it was still a secret that she couldn't tell anybody about because it was like, my issues, and she didn't want to tell other people my issues if I wasn't there. But once it was, like, public in church, like, oh, now I'm free to relate to people, and people can relate to me. And your husband sucks, too.

Let me tell you about my. No, maybe not that.

Kind of like that. So along those lines, for you guys, this is a very personal story, and it's tempting to just have it be a very private thing. Like, let's get Help. Let's do the groups. But that doesn't mean necessarily we want to tell other people. And yet here you are on the podcast and I know, Ashley, you've shared some things that your stories unveiled conference. Like, what was it for you that gave you both the courage, but also the sense that you were supposed to share your story publicly. Why did you take that step to be open with others about your stories?

Well, I mean, from my side of it, from my perspective and my reasonings really was sin can't live in the dark. It's really difficult for it to. And the more that we talked about.

It can't live in light.

That's what I meant. Sorry.

It thrives.

Yeah. It manifests, grows. Yeah, we're with you. We're with you.

Lives in the dark. That's what I meant. Sorry. And so to share it and to talk about it and to just put it out there gives others permission to be able to relate and to then also be able to share. Nick, really, not to quote your book, I promise, but really creating a culture of grace within the church to make it quote his book.

We can plug it right now. There you go.

So for me, the. The like, I to kind of piggyback on what I was talking about before, about being able to come out from that shame and be able to walk down the hallway and. And freely talk about what I was doing. Then it became it, man. It started to manifest itself in being able to share the story with men in my men's group that had nothing to do, quote unquote, with sexual addiction or then other people that I would meet, you know, being able to share it with them because. Because I had had, A, been freed from the shame, but B, had had such a positive change in my life that I just. I was not scared to share with anybody. And so. And it's great how God uses those opportunities and that freedom to bring people into your life, to give you a platform to be able to share those things. God gave Ashley stories unveiled to be able to share that and then.

For.

Us together, bringing people in our lives to be able to share our story in a publication that people could see outside of it. And it's just. I feel like when God gives you such a gift, there's no way that you can just keep it to yourself. You have to share it. And I know that for myself that I know that how I struggled in the dark. And so I have to assume that there are so many others that are out there struggling in the dark. And so I felt it incumbent upon myself to be out there and to sing it from the mountaintops, because I was freed from the shame. And so now I need to be able to. To be something that was attractive for other men, to be able to say, hey, you mentioned this. Let's talk about that. And I've experienced it. And it's just been so amazing to be able to see God work in that way.

So I was gonna say, sorry before I lost my train of thought. I was gonna say, so before I started Stories Unveiled, when I knew that the Lord was telling me, after I had worked through, you know, my stuff and all of that, I felt like the Lord was telling me, there are other. There are others. And not even just necessarily like you said, in this realm of sexual addiction or porn addiction or any of those things, but just in life, right? There are others. And so as I was working through with the Lord, what stories unveiled look like and all of that, I went to Asher and I said, listen, to this point, we haven't really shared our story. I mean, here and there, we've talked about it in counseling. You clearly are, you know, you're in pure desire now. You're leading groups. And I've talked about it here and there with, like, close, close friends, but, like, the leadership of, you know, the church, certain leadership, they don't know. Like, we've never been really outspoken about this. We have never just, without any inhibitions, really just shared our story. And if I. If I walk through these doors that I feel like God's opening with stories unveiled, and this is the road that we take, it's not going to be easy, and we're going to have to share our story on a platform, so to speak. It's going to be revealed for all. We made a pact that that's okay, that that's what we were called to do, that that is what we were supposed to do. And so, like you said, in publication, we have the great opportunity for our story to be highlighted on a magazine more locally. But still, it got the word out about pure desire. I mean, people didn't know what pure desire was. And he had people contacting him. And so, I mean, it wasn't so much buildup of courage to step out and share a story. It was just a switch that flipped. At least for me to just say, no, enough is enough. We need to share this, because God gave us this story. He's writing the story, but he's also brought healing and redemption from the story. So we need to share that.

Yeah, yeah, it was like, in my story, having Ted Roberts say, because I was a pastor and I didn't really want to have to share with my church, it just felt. Felt easier and cleaner. Like, let's just move on. And I'm healthy. That's good. But Ted Roberts said, do you think you're the only man in your church that struggles with pornography? And I was like, dang it. No, I mean, and it's just. It was that simple. It was like this switch of, like, well, yeah, obviously there's tons of other guys, and if I'm quiet about my story, they're gonna keep struggling. And if I try to preach on this without owning my story, it's not gonna have near the effectiveness if I'm willing to stand up and say, listen, I was. I was bound and trapped and addicted, and some of you are too, and I found hope and freedom. And here's how, like, you catch that vision to say, we're not the only ones. Those were your words, I think. And that just. Yeah, that's a game changer for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something. And I know that culturally, this has some. Some connotations to it, so, like, I'll be careful there. But, like, hearing the words me too, are really, really powerful. And I think that that's something that a lot of us need to understand, not only in when we hear it from someone else, but that we are offering that extension when we share our story. We're offering that to someone, and maybe we have no idea what that person's struggling with, but if we can actually share what's going on in our life. I remember the first time I shared the deepest, darkest secret I had sexually. The same sex experience I had when I was, like, 10 or 11. I always say 10, 11 or 12. I have no idea when it was. So I know someone's gonna fact check me on the podcast, But I think when I said that in group for the first time, hearing the words from two other guys in group, me too. Just the shame left. It was gone. No longer did it have any hold on me. And I think that we also have that key for so many people for just want to go out. So one of the cool things, and this is probably the best thing about recovery, yeah, you get rid of shame and this behavior, but then you also start to see it manifest in relationships. You start to see your marriage change, your parenting change, your relationships with other people, how you relate to other people. For you guys, both, what is different now in your marriage, your relationship with your kids, your Relationship with friends at church, leadership, all that. How do they look different now?

I'll speak to the parenting a little bit. So we have two boys, two elementary age boys, one's gonna be in middle school next year. And so, you know, they're coaching. Thank you. They also have a high schooler.

Yeah, we have a trip, Prayers. Yeah.

And our, you know, they're all three of our kids know enough for what they can, you know, process at this point, for their, you know, emotional capacity and whatnot. But we are able to, we have this story, we have these resources, we have this incredible example of what God can do and what we know, you know, how God intended and how God didn't intend for, especially sexuality. And all of these things that we can speak to our boys and we can tell our, you know, I can tell my boys. Talk to your dad about these sorts of things because dad knows, like, he's literally walked this. This isn't just some ambiguous thing or thought or read a book about this, but he can actually speak, you know, truth about it. And then our daughter, so we have a high schooler and you know, statistically speaking, and you guys can fact check me on this, but statistically speaking, men are more predispositioned to struggling with sex or porn addiction. However, females are not immune. Women are ubiquitous.

It's everywhere.

Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. And so we had a girl. And for me, in a high schooler, I just, it was so easy for me to dismiss. Well, we'll talk about this to our boys, right? This doesn't necessarily need to be anything, you know, and just through life and curiosity and seasons and whatnot, the world, it has opened up conversations with our high school daughter to be able to say, let's just share with you our actual real life experience. And so she knows our story and we talk about it and we. She knows not only how God intended it, biblically speaking, but how it's actually played out in real life and the damage that it can do and how dangerous of a road that is. And so it's opened up a whole realm in parenting that I think a lot of parents are not super comfortable talking to their kids about. And I mean, no topics off the table for us. So it's been a blessing to be able to have this and be able to tackle it head on and talk about it and just be real about it.

And I think the key word for the whole thing is intimacy, because being able to be real, be vulnerable inwardly, like with yourself. Right. To be able to step out from denial, step out from shame and all those things then leads to a life of greater intimacy in those outward relationships. First at home in our marriage, that was the biggest thing that had happened in our marriage, was that we found a level of intimacy that hadn't been there for so long. And, you know, it's not one person's fault or the other per se, but I know that, you know, in being able to lead with vulnerability and talking about feelings and just those intimate things, then it starts to spread out everywhere else. And so then I would say in friendships, too, you know, friendships get to be our friendships with others. The real friendships got to be deeper. And because of that level of intimacy and. And so I think that that's just the basis of it, both in marriage and then down to our parenting, is because we could. We could be open and honest and intimate with our kids as well.

Yeah, that's. That's such a great way to put it. You know, that word intimacy is. There's a freedom to. To be known, to be really known and not feel like you're wearing kind of this veneer or mask that people don't see behind. And as we've said in many podcasts, like, that doesn't mean everyone knows everything all the time, but it does mean we don't live this hidden life anymore, because there are people that do know us, and they know us to the core, and it changes our relationships at a very, very deep level. So you guys have already talked about it some, but just tell us a little bit more about the ministry that God has given you in this area. How are you using your story now to help other people find hope and healing?

Well, I'll start God gave me Pure Desire Ministries. I mean, not to. Not to plug the mothership too hard, but it's true. I mean, that was. That is pure desire. Ministry is my ministry. And so being able to share that story has grown it so greatly. Like, we talked about a little bit about the publication and having people who read it reach out and say, hey, this is something I deal with. And then also to be able to put out, to say, like church congregations and people to say, hey, come check this thing out, right? And then some might come, knowing they need to check it out, but with this giant wall in front of them, for me to be able to stand up in front of them and share things that kind of blow their hair back because they're not used to anybody actually sharing that kind of stuff gives them permission to share and to open up and to take the steps into that void. That they were so scared to do. And so that's how this has grown our ministry at church. And yeah, I just see it in men's lives on a daily basis. And yeah, I mean, that's, that's pure desire has, has been key to that. And I'm. I take that the mantle of it with pride and joy.

Yes.

As far as my ministry and Stories Unveiled, like we said before, because it offers a platform. The very nature of what Stories Unveiled is it offers a platform. And you know, that couldn't have started, though, without my first vulnerability, my first sharing story. And so it even started small. And the very first people that ever spoke at the very first Stories Unveiled were my friends. And they were friends that I had intimate relationships with that knew my story and I knew theirs. And I just simply said, would you take a chance? Like, would you share your story? Because they too saw the importance of what happens when you can be vulnerable and you open up and you share what God is doing in your life, what he has done in your life, where you were and now you know where you are. And so the very first conference was just my friends that just took that leap and agreed with everything we are talking about here. And so. But that was a catalyst into the coming years. And even just, I mean, there are people that speak at Stories Unveiled, but there are so many people that don't that I still sit with and I still. They share their story because they heard somebody, because somebody shared their story. And I feel like, like you said, Trevor, the connotation of me too, but that's literally what this was. When somebody can stand up and just say, this is what I'm going through. I think most people can place themselves in any story, even if they've never directly experienced it, because maybe they've known someone that has or whatnot. But to actually find yourself in a story and relate, you know, completely to something, to be able to say, oh, my gosh, me too. That's like, you just, you just shared my story. I can't tell you how many times that's happened. And it's so freeing for people.

So cool. I like, I mean, I, I hear, working here, we hear stories, like, all the time, but it's just cool. Like, I just feel inspired. Like I want to work for pure desires. Oh, I already do. Yeah, let's just keep doing it.

You know, now that I know we're on the mothership, kind of exciting.

I know I'm wearing.

The first time I referenced.

I'm wearing an ESPN shirt too, which is funny because that has been referred to as a mothership. God is just his providence is incredible. Okay, so guys, you guys have been through it and there may be people who are listening who are all over the map, people who are in the same exact position you guys are. Maybe people who haven't even started their healing journey from addiction or betrayal, or maybe they're right in the thick of it. Right? They're like, they're in that 10 year window you guys spoke of. What encouragement would you have for those listeners? Just think about where they're at and what you would share with them to encourage them on their journey.

Well, I would for sure encourage, if you're a spouse listening to this and you're maybe in my shoes, so to speak, there's hope. There can always be a redemption story. If you allow God to work through you. If there are two willing parties, then God will submit to God and to his authority and what he has for your life to follow that. Because there is always hope and healing is possible. Healing is absolutely possible. To keep seeking him and to just, to just hang on and submit to what God would have in your relationship. And.

Yeah, good for me. I would say whether you are on the first steps of the journey or if you are a seasoned vet of it, you're in the right place listening to this. Because first off, if you're, if you're just now getting into it and you're struggling. Yeah. Know that there's hope, know that there's a way out. Know that there is healing available. And if we, if we work the process and, and stay involved and reach out to God and spend that time with him, healing, victory, redemption, all those things can be found. And if you're a seasoned vet, what I would say too is that there is no limit to your learning, to your growth and to understanding this process. And so I would say bravo. You know, keep listening and keep working, keep growing in the program and in the Lord. And I think it's great.

Well, Asher and Ashley, we love having you guys on and someday, you know, love to have your other kids. Ash, Ashley and Asher Asheroth.

Yeah, right.

Great to have you on. Tell our listeners how can they keep up with you and how can they keep up with the stories Unveiled conference?

Well, for me, I don't have social media of any way, shape or form. I punted on that some time ago as part of my recovery as well. But my email, if you get on PureDesire.org in Boise, Idaho, I am a group leader and my email is available and you can reach out to me by phone, by email. I'm always glad to talk, always glad to help somebody. And so that's how I can be reached.

For me, I am on social media. Ashley Sears or Stories Unveiled. We have Facebook and Instagram. Also the website Stories Unveiled conference.

Has.

Messages, it has stories of hope, it has upcoming stuff. We have a conference coming up in September. Again, it has all the information there. I would love to hear from anybody. Obviously, I love hearing stories and sharing stories. It's the heartbeat of what I do and what we believe in.

So, so good. Well, as you can hear in the seers story, the path to healing and restoration is messy. But there is so much to be gained if we bring our struggles and the darkness that we carry into the light. There's so much that could be benefited from personally, but then also unlocking it for so many people. And I mean, that's the reason why we have people on to share their story is to be hopefully that key into someone's life that unlocks healing and recovery for them. So, Asher, Ashley, you guys are awesome. We love you guys. We want to spend more time with you, but we're really thankful for the work you've done personally in your own life and then also the way that you're leading out now and helping other people to find healing and freedom. So thanks so much for that.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I appreciate it.

Yeah, definitely.

And wherever you're at on your journey, pure desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is impacted by sexual brokenness, go to PureDesire.org and let's start the healing journey today. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Podcast. Each week we put out new content to help you on the road to freedom from the effects of sexual brokenness. And lastly, never stop being healthy.