209 - Avengers & Recovery

You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal and relationship issues. Welcome to Summer. I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 209 of the Pure Desire podcast here. Joining me as always is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Avengers Assemble.

Okay, so let's just get into it. We today are talking about the Avengers. The Avengers and the principles that we see in their lives, character arc in the MCU and recovery.

Yes. Can I just say, did you say welcome to summer?

Yes.

Isn't this like July?

It is July, but in.

We live in Oregon. So when does summer start?

Summer does not start in June in Oregon. It starts in July.

I have a. Maybe that's part of my struggle of living here. I have a mental calendar. Like when you hit Memorial Day, that's summer. Summer's Memorial Day to Labor Day. But the weather here rarely agrees. So maybe you're right. I just think some of our listeners might be like, summer, it's halfway, Summer's halfway over.

And listen, don't you start picking apart my intros because I could pick apart all of your intros that you know.

Which you guys do. I mean, bring Ashley on and she'll tag team with you on that one. Yes. So this was an idea we had a while back to just say, hey Midsommar, let's do kind of a Fun Movie Series 1 on the Avengers. And I'll, I'll be honest, a little bit. This idea came from watching the final Avengers, Infinity War and Endgame. Or Infinity War in Endgame. Got it.

Yes.

The way that Cap, not Captain America, Iron man slash, Tony Stark makes this very self sacrificing decision to be the one that gives his life so that they can win. Spoiler alert. And just seeing his, his character arc of where he starts, where he ends, like, yeah, that is such a theme of recovery. Like because we talk about all the time that addiction is primarily like a self focus way of coping with life. And so freedom isn't just stopping a behavior. Freedom is that other centered life. And I was like, that's like recovery in a beautiful story. I'm like. And then I started thinking of the other Avengers. Like, wait a minute. Well, there's a story and there's a story and there's.

Yep.

So for some of our listeners that like movies like the Avengers, they are going to love this podcast, guaranteed. If you've never watched an Avengers movie, I'll be frank with you, you may want to just wait for next Week's episode, maybe.

Yeah. Or this might encourage you to watch the movies.

That's true. That's true. But we definitely go into the movies because we love. But we pick up on the themes of how this is the story of all of us being told. And I think it's really encouraging. And we had a lot of fun.

We absolutely did. And it's deeper than you might think it is. Let's just be prepared for that few things before we get into it. Subscribe to the podcast. Also follow us on social media and YouTube. You can find us there. Nick, we're not going to talk about the Avengers at the summit, but we still want people to come to the.

Summit because it's a big event, an Avengers movie coming out. You know how when you see a particularly good movie, there are like, scenes or lines that stand out to you and like, you remember them. Some of them will remember for the rest of our lives. It's just like a moment that connected with us. And honestly, that's what I believe happens when we gather in a way like we're going to at the summit. But yeah, you could listen to our podcast and hear us talk or coming in person to the summit. What's the difference? So I, I think the difference is that experience of being in the room, a part of the event. And God just has a way of showing up in those moments of speaking to us about our story, his call in our life, what needs to happen on our relationships, and we believe that's what will happen. So we're excited about the team of speakers that are going to be there. We're just excited about gathering again in person. And we hope that many of our listeners will say, hey, this is going to be part of my annual calendar to go and be refreshed and encouraged and have some time with the Pure Desire team and many others across the country. And if you can't join in person, it's still great content. We hope you'll join the virtual experience online.

Yeah. So September 10 and 11 at Harvest Christian Church in Troutdale, Oregon. Come join us. And like Nick said, we do have those two options of in person. And then we also have the virtual component. If you do register before August 16, we will give you lifetime access. So do it, do it now, Jump in and you can register@puredesire.org summit. All right, Nick, here is our conversation about the Marvel Avengers in recovery. All right, Nick, so you and I are having this conversation. It's going to be a lot of fun for us. I know it Is. But we're also having this conversation. As I mentioned in the intro, we have Black Widow that is coming out this week. And then we also have.

Movies are back.

They are.

They are.

Yeah. Right. I know. It's always just like. Even if we recorded this, like, the day the episode comes out, like, who knows if the theaters are gonna get shut down? But I do know that we have. We've had. We're just talking about it. WandaVision came out, and then Falcon, Winter Soldier. Now Loki is out. And so this just feels like it's still very much part of the conversation. We want to just explore this Avengers, this idea of comic books, superheroes, all that, and recovery. So let's just start with this. Why do so many superhero themes or storylines tend to connect with us and really with recovery, so. Well, why is that? I mean, it's so popular. Why is that?

Yeah, I think when we look at, like, the superhero genre, there's something about it that connects with our desire as people to do things that matter in this world, you know, and so, you know, in the movie, they're saving the whole world. And in our own lives, it may just be to be our spouse's hero or our kids heroes like to do something that matters, to contribute and to use our gifts and a skill. Our gifts and skills in a way that. That makes a difference. And what you're seeing even more so lately is the way that that's almost always done as a part of a team. You know, the solo superhero movie of the past isn't as popular now, even though the solo movies they're making, they've always got kind of their supporting cast that's making it happen. And. And I think there's something in us that likes that, too, of together with a team, we're doing something more than just ourselves, to be a part of something bigger than our own story. And. And yet the truth that every one of these characters that we're going to cover is a complicated person, that they've. They've got their flaws and their weaknesses, the things that they're susceptible to, and. And they're. It's portrayed in, like, such a. Such an amplified way that it's so obvious, like, oh, wow, look what they're dealing with. But on some level, we realize, like, oh, that's like, that's what I deal with.

Yeah.

And I just had that intriguing idea that the character arc, especially of the Avengers, in so many ways, are the character arc that many of us in recovery have had to go on things we've had to learn lessons we've had to learn. And so this just seem. Seemed like kind of a fun way to look at recovery through the lens of what these characters had to go through over the scope of, what is it, seven or eight Avengers movies that they were all in.

That's right. And I'm gonna look at each camera as I say this, because this is important for anybody who's watching and who's listening. This is why the Marvel movies are better than the DC movies, because they have character development and character arc. Even though Batman's the coolest superhero on the face of the planet, the movies, like, statistically, there are more bad movies than there are good movies. Okay, there it is.

And we should do, like, spoiler alert. Like, we're gonna talk about how movies end.

So, I mean, I would sort of judge you if you haven't seen some of these movies.

So it's too late. Like, you should have seen them by now.

That's true. Yeah.

So these Avengers characters as we're talking about, we really see a lot of the same dynamics in a really kind of amplified way in them that we walk through. And so let's go through the characters and just unpack, like, what's going on in their story that might relate to the kind of things we're facing. And how could. How could we use them as an illustration, maybe both of what not to do? And what does it look like to go through some transformation? So let's start with Thor and his half brother. I guess not even half brother, just like adopted brother Loki, because they actually have some similar issues just on different ends of the spectrum.

Right? Totally. So I'll go the negative side, and then you take the. The positive attributes that we see. But they both have this entitlement thing where Thor believes he has earned his right to sit on the throne by all these. I mean, he goes out and he wins all these battles, and he just. He has this sense of entitlement in that I'm the firstborn of Odin, therefore I'm going to be this, and I'm ode that. And I mean, there's just an arrogance that gets carried. I mean, and you're talking about the first movie for sure. The second movie, he starts to figure some things out a little bit, but there's that idea of he's this high and mighty, he's better than everyone else, and that sense of entitlement carries through. And I think a lot of us carry that in certain ways and are owed certain things, especially in recovery. I think about Sexuality in general or sex specifically, that it's somehow we're owed that when we're married or when we reach that place where our relationship is there. I think a lot of us feel like we have that entitlement. And then Loki, it's funny because I think about it a little bit. He's almost like the older brother. And some. He's the worst brother, I think, of the two. But almost like the older brother in Luke 15, he's the villain, but like Luke 15, he's the one that doesn't go out and do all these crazy things and make all like. He's the God of mischief for sure, but he's also not the one who's made all these huge, huge mistakes. And so because of that, he feels he's entitled to actually be king of Asgard. And it sounds super nerdy when we say these. I realize some people might not know what we're talking about, but just move on to the next episode, I guess. But I think he is that older brother mentality that because I haven't done all of these things, therefore I am owed this. So that's where I see the entitlement playing out with both of them.

Yeah. Yeah, really, it's. It's arrogance and entitlement kind of wrapped together. And that idea of getting what I deserve is kind of the chief thing in life. And it's really. When we operate in that way in our recovery, what we're stuck in is a place that says it's all about me. It's all about what I deserve or what I need and getting what I want. And you see for both of them over the arc of the movies, and it happens in particular over the last couple, where they arrive at a place of greater humility. You know, I think about Thor that some of that humility comes because of his ultimate failure to defeat Thanos and to keep him from the snap and, you know, eliminating half the population. Right. And he becomes fat Thor. Oh, my gosh, very funny. But in that last movie, there is some humility that comes as he embraces. I don't have to fix this myself. It's not all about me. And similar with Loki of, like, him coming to the realization of, like, having a brother and being included and having a people is. Is more important than. Than me just dominating the world and ultimately, you know, sacrifices himself in. In trying to create good. And so I think for both of them, and in our story, that's what we're looking at is in recovery. I have to let go Of a lot of what I think I deserve.

Yeah.

And what for many of us has been a solo act of, of our own reputation, income, population, just like whatever's kind of our thing that we have. Maybe then pornography or other forms of acting out have become how we fill those gaps totally. Recovery isn't about just letting go of that pursuit. It's the underneath side of letting go of the entitlement of what I deserve. And kind of coming before God and others open handed to say, I really don't deserve anything. What I have is gift. It's gift from God. And that, that position of gratitude towards our days really changes how we interact with the world. So I think we see that begin to happen with Thor and Loki. Something we can all learn from.

I think stewardship gets played out too. It becomes entitlement to an element of stewardship. That this is something that's an honor for me to have this authority or this power and I want to use it the best way for sure. Okay. So my 4 year old son Brady, this is his favorite is Bruce Banner or the Incredible Hulk. And I just want to say the Mark Ruffalo version. Okay, that's where I'm at. The Mark Ruffalo version.

There have been quite a few of them.

Eric Banner and then I'm blanking on the other one. What's his name? Edward Norton. There it is. Okay. But we're talking about. Yeah, Mark Ruffalo's Incredible Hulk, Bruce Banner. So what elements do we see in the recovery process with the Hulk?

You know, I think a lot of us identify with the Incredible Hulk because of the way it really creates a caricature of how we feel about our own anger or our own emotions. It's like I mostly keep them bottled up. I can figure out how to manage life. But then there come those things that all of a sudden just raw and you know, we feel like we become the big ugly monster that in the movie, you know, the Incredible Hulk becomes. But it's all about that anger and him funneling it or channeling it into this, this monstrous character. And in his character arc over the films. It's really humorous. Again, to watch by the last one, how Mark Ruffalo's character at the end is both kind of a man and the Incredible Hulk together. And what I see in that is like he's no longer relying on the anger to drive him to be the Hulk. He's kind of come to this place of acceptance of like I am both of these people. And I think for us in Recovery. That's what we've talked a lot about with emotions that we did the podcast not too long ago. That emotions are bad is really. That's a myth. That's not accurate. Because emotions can teach us things. Emotions are indicators. Emotions are something we can learn from. So that's not to say we should just vent our anger and live as an angry green monster, but to recognize I have these emotions in me, and that's not wrong. If I can learn to make friends with them and I can learn from them and I can channel them towards healthier things. Because it may have been like in my story. I know injustice towards me can create a lot of anger. Like, you disrespected me, you unfairly judged me, and that's injustice. I can really find in health that that same passion for injustice can now in a healthy way, be directed towards injustice in the world. And it would be appropriate to be angry about injustice towards kids or vulnerable populations or, you know, you name it. And so if I ignore that emotion or that, that anger over injustice, I will lose a part of me that I think God designed as good. And so I think the Incredible Hulk is kind of, particularly the way Avengers depicted him at the end is kind of. He's become both. Yeah, is us becoming comfortable with our emotions and not running from them.

A good word that I would use here that I've heard described is that's. It's someone who's living integrated in that sense, where they're not these separate parts of. Of me, you know, and I'm not getting into ifs language. I just mean that there are these different elements of me that I are very, very separate, that my emotions are over here and my actions, behaviors over here. It's this integration of understanding the value of both. And obviously, if you watch the movie, like, it's really good that Bruce Banner and the Hulk were integrated. In that sense, he was able to do a lot of good.

So it's interesting, isn't it, that in different movies, like in one of the movies, he's trying to never be the Hulk again because he's like, he's tired of hurting people and causing problems. And then in another one of the movies, he's decided he's just giving into the Hulk and he's never gonna be that weak Bruce Banner again.

That's right.

Ragnarok. That was that one. I think there's a little bit of that in us. Like, we don't want to be weak. And so I'm just going to be the. You Know, bold, outspoken, or then the other side. Well, I don't want to be that person that ruins relationships, so I'll just keep it at bay. And. And neither is. Is healthy, really. So it's finding that place of knowing what's driving me and being able to live in it in a healthy way.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah. So one of the characters in the Avengers movies that probably goes through the greatest transformation, in my opinion, from beginning to end.

Yes.

And we get to know him a lot because he has three of his own movies is Iron man or Tony Stark. So talk a little bit about his transformation during this series.

Yeah, totally. I love Iron Man. He's just the guy, for sure, Tony. But what I see is. I mean, I'll nerd out for a second just on, like, screenwriting and the way that movies are crafted is that he really ends up being, like, an emotional compass. Where he is is kind of where the tone of the movies tends to go. And so I would say he is. Yes, was the first movie that was ever made in that sense, but he also was a character that carried a lot throughout. And again, spoiler alert. Right. Like, where he started and where he ends, I am Iron Man. Snap. Right. Like, I think for him, he moves from this really. And it's not that it ever changes, but this really sarcastic and really snappy and witty person who is really. You can see there's a lot of wounds behind what's happening. There's a lot of. There's a huge father wound. I mean, I'll just say that. Which I know a lot of these characters have that. But there's this huge gap that he has of, like, in this living in the shadow of his dad, Howard Stark, of all these things that he's accomplished and wanting to do bigger and better things, but then also having this. I just want to have fun. There's almost a sense of entitlement here, too. Like, well, I'm so smart, so I should be owed this, or I should have that. And so what's interesting is there's this huge defense mechanism. And I'll just say that I think this is what the brilliance is of Iron man and the character in general is that the suit of armor is actually a visualization of who Tony Stark projects to be, that he projects this way of putting a suit of armor around himself so he doesn't have to be vulnerable or feel pain or hurt. And if you just watch him throughout, he starts to see how important his role is and how he can help other people. And by the end I mean, that scene in Endgame with his daughter, like, I love you 3,000. Like, you got. You've gotten to know this character so much and seen this progression that he has softened and become a real person. Like, he's not just this version or projection of himself. He's actually someone who is willing to know and be known by people. And even I think of scenes where he figures out the time travel stuff and then sits down next to Pepper on the couch and he doesn't hold it in. He used to go down to his shop and he used to not, you know, he used to isolate down there, but now he sits down with her and he goes, I think I figured it out. And she engages with him and she has the. There, there's this really. It's interesting. I didn't write this down. This is all coming to me now. But like, they explore this inner world moment that he's having. And she asks about, like, but will you feel peace if you don't do this? And so he becomes someone that is now in community and relationship and thinks about other people's mixed with just this new vulnerability.

Yeah. Yeah. That's his transformation of the world is all about me and my wealth and my company and my toys and my girls. Sleeping with whoever you want. Just like the playboy, Fly By Night. Whatever he wants. And in each movie, it's like there's someone new he starts to care about, whether it's Pepper Potts or Peter Parker or his relationship with Captain America or, you know, the ultimate. His daughter. In the last movie, it's like, now he has these people that matter more than himself. And so at the end, when he's willing to sacrifice, it's not just because he's become an altruistic, you know, well, I'm a giving person. It's actually about the people that he loves and cares about that he realizes I'm the one that can do something to save them.

Yeah.

And I care about them enough. I'm going to do it. And I think in recovery, that's. That's a missing element. Often that men and women forget about because they're so focused on trying to stop a behavior.

Right.

Is that we forget the ultimate purposes so that, yeah, I can rescue my marriage and my, my family and do something for my wife and kids that really only I can do. They can't fix this. I've got to do some really hard stuff. And for that to be successful for the long haul, ultimately has to be about other people and not just ourselves. So I think we can all identify with aspects of that character. Learning to care. Learning to care about someone more than ourselves is a big part of getting out of addiction.

Yeah, yeah, he does. That character arc puts a really. There are bookends to his story that really do map out the recovery process and what that looks like really, really well. Okay, so another one of my favorites we'll go into is Spider Man, Peter Parker. Let's just talk about elements of his story.

Yeah. You know, from what I can understand, Peter Parker is the character that gains his skills early in life. As a teenager. Everyone else was either born with them, like Thor, or inherits them as an adult, he inherits his gifts, superpowers at a time. He really doesn't know how to use them. And so that's some of the fun of the Spider man movies and his characters like him figuring out what the suit does. And he's like, oh, my goodness, I can do that. That's amazing. I love this. And kind of this back and forth between him trying to do too much on his own and by himself and discovering his need for a mentor, and in many ways, Tony Stark becoming that for him of like, how do I use these gifts and powers that I have for good? And I think that's what it speaks to for any one of us. That. And we've talked about this on the podcast that most of us come into our teenage years, and if we're honest, we don't have great mentors, particularly like in our sexuality, in relationships. And so a lot of it's kind of figuring it out on our own and trying things and messing up and causing big problems. But there's parts of us that feel powerful and like, we've learned we can do things, but it just. It can all go really wrong really fast if we don't have people that can speak in our lives with some wisdom and some grace to help us along that path. And so just like Peter Parker needed that, I think for all of us in recovery, it's on us to look ahead and say, who has figured out a part of this journey? And not even meaning perfectly, because certainly Tony Stark wasn't perfect in his mentorship either. But who are people that I can look to to ask those questions and say, how do I do this when I'm stuck in my marriage? Where do I turn? And when I'm battling relapses, what do I need do? Because if we just try to do it on our own, we're not going to be very effective.

Yeah, I think one of the Things, too, with the mentoring piece is that Tony broadens the perspective or the purview of the impact that Peter can have. At one point, when they're sitting in his room after Tony hits on his Aunt May and then comes into the room, talks about the day loaf, which is such a great scene. But he goes, I'm just a friendly neighborhood spider man. And so Tony is asking him and calling him out into something bigger, a bigger vision for his life, a bigger perspective, a bigger playground, if you will, to use his gifts. And I think that's beautiful. I think that's such a cool thing. And I think people who have been further on in the recovery process can do that. They can lift our eyes a little bit to see the horizon of where we can go into recovery. And then also one thing he battles with, because he's in that age bracket and because, I mean, it's just the, like, the over talking in Civil War when he's fighting, right? The over. It's just like, just, Peter, shut up and fight, right? Like, just stop. Is actually because he has tons of insecurity. He doesn't know his own role or his own space. And so I think that there's also this cool thing where he becomes more confident. And that is also another thing that's tied to Tony and the mentoring is he becomes more confident, starts to own those gifts and starts to use those things. And I think a lot of us, I know for me being in my age now, like, you know, definitely into my 20s and now into my early 30s, I still struggle with that. I struggle with confidence that the gifts that God has given me or that I put a lot of effort into and have fostered, those are things that I'm still really insecure about. And I think that this is interesting. This episode's becoming way more profound through our conversation, I feel like, than I thought it was going to be. But it's cool to. To start. To get that confidence and start to feel like I can stand on my own two feet and who God has made me to be in my giftings and. And see that I have these people I can help because of those giftings. And so I think that that's something that you see with Peter is you see that opening, you know, his perspective up, lifting his eyes to the horizon and then gaining confidence.

Yeah, yeah.

In his gifts.

Yeah, that's really good point. And it makes me think about in Avengers, he's like the one character whose origin story is wrapped up in the Avengers timeframe. Everybody else kind of comes into it as a superhero already. They bring their superpowers. He's becoming one as it happens. And so there's this world. He's trying to figure out how he fits in. And. And it's not always easy. And I think a lot of us, because I hear that a lot, and I would say people who are not in the baby boomer generation, people that, you know, went through some of the Vietnam War era and, you know, people our parents age and above that, we kind of look to them as, like, they've been called the greatest generation and people that fought in wars. It's like many of us that are. I'm trying to not exclude anyone that's like, wait a minute, include me. You know, let's say 50 and under, even we can be in this place of, have I arrived? Do I fit? Do I have? Because I didn't do some of those things and I don't have those stories. And, boy, it seems like my dad knew how to do everything. And I, like, don't even change my own oil. And where did. Where did that ball get dropped? Like, we just grow up in kind of a youth ish culture that sometimes wonders, when do I fit? When do I feel like I'm an adult?

Totally.

You know, I've had this conversation with you. Like, I turned 40 a couple of years ago, and it's like, I don't feel 40. Like, I still feel like a young adult, but I'm the age of old people. When I was a kid, like, oh, those are old people. They're 40 and totally. So there's something in all of us, I think, that does need to mature into our own person and story and embrace that God has a story for us that's not just for those who've come before us. So, yep, One of the fascinating characters, I think, who comes into the story more tangentially because they're. Their story isn't a part of Avengers early on, but that becomes the Guardians of the Galaxy and Peter Quill and Star Lord. And his issue is probably where we most profoundly see the father wound and the father story being played out. So talk about that a little bit.

Well, I'd even start a little bit. Like, I'm thinking of where Guardians of the Galaxy starts, and it starts with his mom on her deathbed. And so this guy literally is running away from the trauma he's experienced. Like, he goes out. I mean, he literally, like, his mom's dying and runs out of the hospital. Right. And then gets picked up, you know, by this group of, you know, marauders or pirates. And what he does. It's interesting because he like his perspective. He's doing all these things that he knows are wrong, but he's still. It's. It's a form of escape. It's a way to run away from all this pain that he's had. And what's interesting is he latches on to Yondo. Right? That's how you say his name. Okay, thank you. There's a lot of names in these movies, but he latches onto him as a father. Even though it's a really dysfunctional and difficult kind of relationship, he still latches on. And you see it. There's this affinity between them throughout the movies. And then obviously, like, and I'll have you talk about this, but then obviously he actually meets his real dad and there's just this, this huge father shaped hole that he's got in his heart, just in his being. And when he finally meets his dad, he starts to experience that a little bit. But I think that he also starts to see the faults of his dad, which I can experience that. You know, my dad is an incredible man who loves the Lord and has led my family very, very well. But my dad's not perfect. And so for me, I would say the way I relate a little bit to Peter Quill, to Star Lord, is that when I do meet my dad or see my dad for who he really is as a sinner and has his gaps, it's almost like my, the foundation of my world has crumbled a little bit. It's like. Hold on a second. What? Like, my dad has struggles. My dad has these things, you know, and that's. Peter figures that out, that his dad's a. Not a good dude.

Yeah, yeah, but. And I think that's what I appreciate about his story is he does have, throughout those early movies, his, his go to his, you know, his modus operandi has run away. If things are bad, run. He doesn't stay in one place. He doesn't have a home.

Say that he thought his dad was. He doesn't. It's not Kevin Bacon. It's the guy, David. Yeah, he thought his dad was.

He told people that was his dad. That's a great part of the movie. But no, he runs away from everything. He's kind of a. He's a wanderer who just goes wherever he can make the most money. And I appreciate that in the, the movie with his dad that it's like he could have just run away from that and like, whatever I'm out of here. This is not my thing. But when he realizes that his father figure has some really dark plans for the universe that would destroy a lot of lives, he's like, no, I'm going to stand up against this and I'm not okay with it. And I'm not just going to excuse like, well, that's my family. And I think for a lot of people in recovery, that is part of their recovery process. That is maybe the most sticky or messy part beyond fixing their own marriage is they get into some of those family of origin issues. And for many people, the family of origin is not getting healthier. You know, the mom and dad issues they have. I mean, I'm so thankful for my dad. We've had better conversations with him as an adult than I ever had as a kid. He's. He's continued to be a healthy, growing person. I'm so thankful for that because I hear stories all the time for men and women in groups that are just like, we don't talk to my parents. They're so unhealthy there. And some of our healing is, I think rather than running from that, to stand up and in appropriate ways find our voice, find what are healthy guardrails or boundaries around those relationships. And what does it look like to. To really change the trajectory of our family? Because when we run away from those family of origin issues, what I find over and over is that people just tend to perpetuate them. We become exactly like the person we're trying not to be that we're running from. Yeah, but it's when we stand with God's grace and the help of community around us and say, this ends with me. I'm not going to perpetuate these passive aggressive things. I'm not going to perpetuate anger or addiction. That's really hard. But that's a big part of the maturing process. And that's what I think we see in Star Lord is like, he faces the father wound totally. And as painful as it all ends, you know, with he and his dad, like, it makes him a better, stronger person because there's no longer that gap of trying to define himself through that family of origin issue.

Yeah. I don't know if it was a writing issue per se with that character, but I feel like when we got to Infinity War, he just screwed everything up again. But there is that element then of like, even though you start to own it and you understand and process family of origin and the pain that you have, life isn't perfect. Afterward, like, you're still gonna make mistakes and blow it.

So, yeah, his. Well, his love for Gamora blinds him, and he continues to make some really poor choices.

Oh, poor Peter. Peter. Peter. Okay, so the next one is. And honestly, like, the reason why we have it coming out this week is because of this character and her movie, but Black Widow, let's talk about.

I'll be curious to see in the movie if it builds on what I have seen in the films and what I think of Black Widow. That early on in the Avengers story, she's just kind of the hired gun. Like, what do you need me to do? Who do you need me to be? If you need me to pretend I'm a secretary and deliver papers, and I'll do that if. If you need me to be a Russian spy and speak different languages, Like, I can just morph into whatever performance you need so that I can fit in with you. And. And I see for so many of us, that's kind of the performance mode that we can be in. Yep. That we're like chameleons of what gets me accepted by this friend group or what, you know, what makes me fulfill my role with my family. Like, I'll just be whoever people need me to be. But by the end, particularly, you know, in the. In the gap there after the snap and people have disappeared, you find that Black Widow, kind of amazingly, she's the one that is filling a lot of the leadership role, who, as I see it, has now found a lot of comfort. And just this is who I am. Like, I'm a leader. I can help people. I can make a difference. I can be organized. And I'm not just this, you know, jack of all trades. What do you need? I'm. I'm finding my voice and my role. And I think that's what I look at in recovery, that we discover who we are and we become comfortable in our own skin. It's like, this is who I am. And if. If that doesn't work for you, I'm sorry, but I'm going to do the best me I can, and I'm not going to perform or be something for you to make you like me.

Yeah. I think another interesting piece to her story. And if you remember, in the first Avengers movie, her and Loki had that conversation about her ledger being dripping with blood, like, all the bad things that she's done, and there becomes this, like, element of her story where she actually, I'm just realizing now I should totally have a podcast. You and I should do a separate Podcast on movies and film and TV shows, but that she's making up for all the things that she's done.

Right.

And there's this performance mindset, and I think that that's a really scary place to be in. In recovery. There are elements of that, if you've caused betrayal in a marriage, that you are, yes, in some senses, making up for it. But what you're doing is you're rebuilding what has been destroyed, not crossing out all the bad things that you've done. Those things cannot be changed. But there is that, like, if I only do this, if I only can do this much, or if I can just accomplish that or, you know, prove myself this many days or this many years or whatever, then I can no longer look at this ledger. And so I feel like that perspective and that just. There's a lot of shame that gets carried there in the performance mindset. And so I think that there's that element of her story that she is basically running away from her past, trying to fill it with the good. And I don't think that's always a healthy perspective.

And I think that speaks exactly what you see of her in the last Avengers movie, that because half of the universe has been destroyed, there is kind of a resignation. And I think of it as healthy, where she realizes, like, we can't fix it all.

Yeah.

But by golly, here's something we can do. And that's kind of our attitude and leading the team is like, here's some things we can't. We can stop these injustices. We can't bring everybody back, but here's what we can do.

Right.

And I think that's a place in recovery we all have to get to of. I. I can't right every wrong of how I've hurt my wife or not been there for my kids. I mean, you can't. You can't redeem lost time by going backwards. But you can look and say, okay, right now, right here, with what I've got available to me, what can I do?

Totally.

And I'm going to do whatever I can in my power to be a part of a better tomorrow than what I was involved in in the past. And I think that's very much a place that she arrives by the end.

Yeah. I'm hoping the movie's good.

Yeah. Yeah. Looking forward to seeing it. So one more here, Trevor. Captain America talk a little bit about what we might see in him that relates to our recovery story.

There's. I feel like there's a lot to cap, but I'll just. I'll know. I noticed this, that he seems like he takes responsibility for everything, like, what's going good, what's going bad. It just feels like he. He feels this weight that he needs to be the one who's doing the right thing. And I would just say, as I've gotten into recovery and I've been around people who maybe aren't in recovery, that's not my responsibility to save everybody. And I just get that vibe from Cap throughout the movies that he's disciplined and he always knows what's right and wrong. In some ways, he ends up being the moral compass. You know that line in the second Avengers? Yeah. Like, language. You know, language. That's such a good. Yeah. But, you know, at the same time, you see a lot of positive. You know, you see him seeing the best in his friend and Bucky, who obviously comes around later. And you see in a lot of ways, him taking what he lost with Peggy. And when he went into the ice, you see him carrying that and using that as fuel to really fuel the good things that he is doing and the things that he's trying to protect and the people he's trying to save and the life he's trying to crave for people. But it's just interesting. Like, if you look at Endgame, like, the first scene that you see him in, he's sitting in basically, like, an AA meeting for people who've lost people. Right. And so he still has that, like, kind of savior mentality a little bit. And I think that just in recovery, I'd be careful about that. Like, what you can do is work on you. That's what I see in Cap's story is, like, he did the right things. But there can often be these underlying messages or feelings or beliefs that actually come from owning things that aren't ours to actually own.

Yeah. Yeah. I think because of the nature in which he was given his abilities, it kind of gave him that burden of, like, I've got to carry these things.

I've responded.

And there are definitely times throughout the movies, you see it's a heavy burden for him.

Yeah.

You know, he wants to mourn his friend Bucky's death, and he can't even get drunk, and he's kind of remorseful. Like, that's true. I so have to be the hero that saves the day, that I can't even, like, really grieve appropriately in the way that I want to. And. Yeah, and what you keep seeing is how his relationship with Agent Carter is it June Carter. I thought it was June. Is it Peggy? Anyway, Agent Carter, that he's always.

Carter is Johnny Cash, I think. Isn't that right? Yeah.

We'll get our Carters straight soon.

Different movie that is now in the Avengers canon.

We're just expanding it a little bit. I'll just call her Agent Carter. You see throughout the movies, like, even when they go back in the. The last movie, how he's like, he sees her office and is she in there? And that. That there's this part of his heart that. That wants to kind of lay down all the burden. That's what happens, obviously, at the very end. Yeah. When he goes back is he spends his life just getting to be totally her husband and live this normal life with her. And I think in a weird way, that kind of expresses what many of us are looking for, that. That we maybe feel like in life we're supposed to carry all of these roles and responsibilities. And because like you said, because sometimes we're taking on burdens that really aren't ours to bear, it becomes heavy. And it's okay to realize, you know, the life I really want. In fact, I think this was part of my story of being so wrapped up in wanting to be, you know, the dynamic pastor and growing church and a known voice and author, like, that it's okay to just desire a normal life of, like, I'm going to be a good husband, raise my kids, love my. And if no one ever knows my name, like, that'll be okay. That's a good life. And in addiction, often, I think what drives us is we're. We're. We're dissatisfied with the present because we think there's something so much better for us out there if we just go for it.

Yeah.

And then addiction becomes part of that when. When really the contentment we're looking for is often in those things right around us. And I think Captain America just kind of shows like, his contentment wasn't in being Captain America. It was getting to go back and just get to be himself.

Yep.

Yep. That's so good.

Okay, so this has been fun. I mean, again, I feel like we're going way deeper than I thought we were going to, which is great. But what are some final takeaways? Just as we think about the Avengers, we think about the superhero motif, recovery, all that.

Yeah. I think two things come to mind. Number one would be that who we are today in our story doesn't have to be who we are tomorrow. And so if right now we feel we're stuck in self centeredness. Or we're stuck in the villain role, or we're stuck in the performer. Try to make everybody happy role. Like there can be change. I mean, if characters in a film, a movie, get to have a character arc, how much more so you and I, as loved children of God that he is at work in and has promised that his holy spirit is at work in us. So I guess I'd say to listeners, like, believe that your story is still in development and that's a good thing. The other side, the second thing I would take away from it is just to remember that all of our stories are complicated. You know, we're not just the hero or the villain. We're not just the superhero or the human being. Like, we've got dynamics of our story and our personality that are very good, that are gifts from God, things he's made us to do. And right along with that comes our fallenness, our faults, our limits. You know, everything that we can't do isn't because we're weak or sinful. Some of the things we can't do. It's just we're limited. We're humans. And accepting that those are both true, that we both have the ability to help people and make a difference in the world. And there's parts of us that really need some work. That's the human experience. And again, I think the superhero films just show us that in such an amplified way that we can all go, oh, that's kind of what it is to be human. And being comfortable with that is a big part of our recovery.

The thing that comes to mind for me is that all of these characters have character flaws and difficulties and struggles, yet they still take that courageous step to do what they know is right. Obviously, Loki, not so much, but these characters still take that risk or take that chance. And I think in recovery up front, there's absolutely that. That I know how painful my behavior is for other people. I know how detrimental it is to me. I know the shame and just feeling powerless that I carry all of that. But still taking that courageous step to do the right thing, to take that first step into recovery, to put the suit on and have your first fight, right? Like that idea. And so I think that just what I find. And Peter, I think Peter Parker is the one that I would hone in on this for. Like, he gains confidence and the more steps that he takes and the more courageous acts that he performs, he actually becomes more confident and starts to really stand up and be his own in that. And I Think a lot. A lot of them do that. And so I think that looking. I like that idea. Just, you know, we're a part of writing our story with the Lord. Like, our actions and the things that we do help us build up to that. And I guess I would also say this, like, we all have superpowers in the sense that our experience and our gifts and the things that God's given us. I think the Second Corinthians, like, we have the ability to help other people. And I think that in recovery, being able to share our experience and share the things that we're learning and even open our inner world and brokenness up to let people see it, I think we have a lot to offer other people and can help a lot of people start to see their gifts and, you know, get a vision for their recovery.

Yeah. Yeah. When I am weak, then I am strong. That Second Corinthians idea, that's. That's a really good way to maybe summarize the avenger story, that. That through our weakness and faults, Christ is doing some of his very best work. And to others, they become strengths of how we're able to use our wounds and brokenness to help save and redeem others. And that's pretty awesome how God does that.

Yeah, absolutely. Nick. This was fun.

I'm glad we got to great summer episode. People get to go watch a few of these movies. We've said, oh, man, I want to go watch that one again. Yeah.

And you had this idea in March. I remember when you told me, and I was like, it sounds fun. Let's do it. So I'm glad that we did. Yeah. So thanks for just sitting down and talking. The Avengers with me.

Anytime.

And wherever you're at on your your journey, pure desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is impacted by sexual brokenness or betrayal trauma, go to PureDesire.org and let's start the healing journey today. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Each week we put out new content to help you on the road to freedom from the effects of sexual brokenness and betrayal trauma. Lastly, never stop being healthy.