233 - Christmas & Recovery

You're listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. Your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. What's up, people? I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 233 of the Pure Desire Podcast. Here joining me as always, is my co host, Nick Stemball.

God bless us, everyone.

Okay, so we watched A Christmas Carol very recently, but not just any Christmas Carol. A Muppet Christmas Carol.

Oh, there's like, 18 versions of.

It's like little. I think it's little Timmy who's Kermit's son. Who says that?

Yeah.

Is that what it's originally from? Is the original Christmas Carol?

As far as I know, yeah.

Charles Dickens.

You pulled that one. No problem.

Oh, man. We watched it.

Really? It's been fresh on your mind.

Very, very fresh. Definitely.

Honest question, what is your favorite, like, traditional Christmas movie?

What does traditional mean?

I just mean, like, pre 1980s, like, the older ones. What? Oh, is there one you always have to watch as family? You know, Life Christmas Carol?

Good question. I. I mean, to any. Any person who asks me this question, it's Die Hard. Die Hard is my favorite Christmas movie, but traditional. I know, I know. I just want to make sure. Circle back, you know, you repeat it over and over.

That's another podcast.

White Christmas is probably the one. I mean, I like, like, It's a Wonderful Life. Love that. But. And I love. Yeah, I think White Christmas is the one. Bing Crosby. The music in that. So memorable. That's just the one I remember watching a lot growing up, and that's the one. I go. It feels like a warm blanket. You just, you know, you watch and you're like, yeah, this is right. Always right in the world.

What about you, big Miracle on 34th street fan? The real Santa Claus thing, Because there's.

A couple different versions. Right.

There's a much newer one.

Okay, yeah, got it.

Either one. I think they're actually quite similar. Just one's in color, one's in black and white. Different actors, obviously. Yeah. Or A Christmas Carol that. Because I've seen the Christmas Carol, like, in theater a number of times. I just appreciate the storyline because of that. Probably having seen it live action.

Totally. Yeah. I love the message actually behind that. Just watching it again. The transformation you see in Scrooge.

It's cool.

Anyways, let's not get too philosophical on that. So the reason why you asked about Christmases, because this week is Christmas. And so we had Dan Howey, who's our online groups administrator, on and we talked through what it looks like to stay healthy and in recovery during Christmas.

Yeah. And we really want Christmas to be a blessing for everyone and not have it be as we often hear. It can often be a season where people crash and burn, whether in relationships and getting into big arguments or family squabbles or finding themselves trapped into an old pattern of relapse because something kind of came up unexpected. There's. There's just so much that comes and we talk about it in the episode that can really derail us from enjoying what is meant to be a time to celebrate Christ and family and the love of God and. And we want it to be that for people. So I think today's episode is just our kind of that. That couple of friends sitting down with you, just talking about how is this going to be a good week for you? And I hope it really gives everyone some ideas. And for even those that are listening way after Christmas, you know, they're catching up on their podcast. I think there are a lot of principles in here, health and recovery and guardrails that would benefit us in any season of life, but particularly around family celebrations, holidays, Christmas, that sort of thing.

Absolutely.

Yep. Absolutely. Okay. Well, we've got a few things for you real quick before we get into today's episode. First, subscribe to the podcast if you're not. We are on all the major platforms. Don't wait any longer. You just push a button. It's free. Promise. Also, if you could leave us a review, it helps other people find the podcast and that means a lot to us. You can also follow us on social media earedesirepdmi and you can find full episodes of of this podcast on YouTube. Just search Pure Desire Ministries and something that we say a lot. And I know even in this context of this being a Christmas episode, it may sound cheesy, but we genuinely mean it when we say it that the greatest gift you can give someone else is your own health. And one of the best ways that we encourage people to start that journey of health is our video course called sexual integrity 101.

Yeah, you said it. It's really a journey towards health and recovery, whether for ourselves or walking through the betrayal side that Sexual Integrity 101. The video course is really going to give you an overview of what this journey is all about, what to expect, what freedom looks like, how relationships can change. And so if you've never watched it, maybe you're going to have some free time over the holidays. You could start walking through that online or maybe you've been through it, but this is prime time. As we're heading into January, a new year, to just ask God to say, who could I walk through with us? Could we do it as a small group? Could, could I meet with some of the men in our church, some of the women in our church, start a small group or a Bible study and use this as the discussion point? Because I think as you've gained awareness in your own life, then God wants to use you to open that door of awareness in someone else's. And, and Sexual Integrity one on one is just kind of a great first step into this area to really understand ourselves and one another better. So hope people consider those ways to use it. And yeah, just tons of great content there.

Totally. So if you want to start your journey to sexual health and healing from betrayal trauma, just go to PureDesire.org101. You can get both the digital and the DVD copies of Sexual Integrity 101. All right, here's our time and conversation with Dan Howey on Christmas and recovery. Dan Howey, welcome back, friend.

Why, thank you so much for having me back for maybe the fourth time this year.

Nick, do you think it's possible for anyone on staff to do like a normal greeting just when we say, hi, welcome to the podcast.

Yeah, I think you kind of set them up, Trevor. They're now concerned about it.

It's not him, it's the issue of it.

Yep. Okay. Not me.

Maybe they're not as comfortable on the podcast as you and I, who, you know, do this all the time.

We do all this. We do this a lot. Okay, so real question to both of you. I'm just curious. Dan, we'll start with you. Do you like Christmas? Yes or no? Yes.

Okay.

Nick, do you like Christmas?

That's a very broad.

Correct.

It's a yes or no.

The day itself, the concept.

Yes or no.

Yes.

Okay, cool.

I'm the only.

No comment. More if I knew, like, what part in particular you're inquiring about when you.

Okay, here's a. Here's a more filled out question. What is the first emotional thing that comes to mind when you hear the word Christmas? Is it positive or is it negative?

It's somewhat. Terror filled joy.

Yeah.

Terror filled joy.

Yeah.

And that's our episode. Thanks.

The ability to go so many different directions, 100% and every day is like a surprise. It's like those. It's just a surprise. Yes. Little egg that you get and open. And what am I going to get today? Bloody claws.

Oh, gosh okay, this is getting way out of hand. I went way off script. I'm sorry. Okay, so listener, we are, as you know, knee de in the holiday season, and Christmas is coming. Insert Ned Stark meme. Right. It is coming this week. So because Christmas is this week, we are bound to spend time with or around family. And we wanted to talk about how to stay in recovery during Christmas. Yes. This almost is like an obligatory episode that we do every year. But the reason why we come back to it is because it's so important. This is something that we are going to run into every single year. So, um, let's just start with this first question just to kind of set the stage. Dan, why is Christmas or. Or. Yeah. Why can Christmas be such a difficult time while in recovery?

Uh, well, my first thought when I read this question was eggnog. First of all, that there's no reason to have it. And then I've seen, even with a.

Little bit of spiced rum in it, you.

That makes it worse. It just like things go off the rails quickly. It can be difficult going to Christmas at the house.

Yeah, right.

We get a surprise of some sort. I think the reason it can be such a difficult time is it's just unique to the year. I mean, there's just no other time like it. And you just have to. Things pop up that would never pop up at any other time. Like for. For us, for Christmas. I found out something new this year. I found out that. Well, let me just back up the. The Christmas before the Christmas season, before I started my recovery, I went on a trip and I was dropping my kids off because we were splitting time with my kids, and I dropped my kids off and I went alone and I. I hooked up with someone before I came back. And my wife was asking me, Jen was asking me, where are you? And I'm like, oh, I'm just getting a Christmas gift for you. So I was trying to cover up in the moment because I wasn't expecting that answer. I came home empty, empty handed. And she kind of figured out, well, you probably weren't. And I tried to play it off like I was looking. And then later that season, we sat around the Christmas tree. As we've had this podcast before that I just told her what was going on. She doesn't like Christmas gifts from me right now or has ever really liked ever, ever since that. So that's a trigger for her, me buying her a Christmas gift. She doesn't really like it. Had I known that, like, for the last eight years, I Could have saved.

A lot of money, right?

I don't think that's the proper response.

No, it could have been, but totally, yeah.

I mean, it's just a unique time, and there's un. Unknown and hidden potholes and treasures all over the place. So it just. It's just. It can be a very difficult time for recovery.

I think a couple things come to mind. First is having no clue who Ned Stark is. That's really holding back my navigating Christmas. But the other thing would be three letters. F, O, O. Family of origin. And on a lot of different levels and layers, because for some people, it's not being with their family of origin and the sense of loss or people have physically died and they're not with them. So there's sometimes hurt or pain, wounds, trauma, not getting to go home that can be triggering. For a lot of other people, it's being around your family of origin. And what we've talked about on this podcast many times, that there's a tendency to revert back into some old roles, some old habits, old patterns that just can come out. Or for people who are in that first year or two of recovery, it can feel like kind of backtracking because they discover parts of them. Kind of like you're saying, Dan, that haven't really been addressed. New stuff pops up and it's like, oh, my goodness, I haven't felt angry like this in six months. What's going on? Like, it's family of origin issues. And the truth is, we can have the world's greatest family and still have unresolved family of origin issues. Whether it's because of current conflict or past issues or ways that our family made us feel, or ways that maybe one particular parent or person in our family made us feel kind of stuffed into a certain role or feel condemned or criticized, whatever it is. There's just all these emotions that tend to surface, good or bad, because we're with them or not, that I think really do go to a deep place. And because we're not navigating them on a regular basis, it can trip people up back into unhealthy patterns of coping, whether they're the betrayed spouse who's dealing with trauma or an addicted, struggling spouse who's trying to break free, free from patterns of lust and pornography. There's just dangers on either side, and we really want to be aware of that.

I think, for me, the reason why it can be so challenging is just the change of rhythm and schedule with some time off, with more family functions, things like that for me, I'm a pretty regimented person, and that, to me, has been really beneficial in my recovery. And when you don't have that, it's like, well, how do I feel this time? What do I do with this? Oh, I'm more idle, maybe than I have been before. I'm more bored than I have been before, or I'm more triggered than I have been before. And I don't have. Have all the structure to help me to stay in place. So I think even that alone is just why this can be such a challenging season for so many people. Is that change of pace and that lack of schedule or rhythm.

Yeah, it changes our routines and brings new things our way that if we haven't thought about it, we might not deal with well. And that's really the point of doing this podcast, is to try to encourage you, the listener, to think ahead a little bit, to consider what kind of environments you'll be in. So, Dan, speak to that a little bit. What are some of the things we should be aware of going into any Christmas celebrations if we want to stay healthy and on our road to recovery during the Christmas season?

Yeah, well, two things. You know, you got to know yourself and you got to know what you're walking into. So don't, don't be blind to either one of those. If, if, if I'm unaware of what I'm walking into, I'm. I'm at a disadvantage. And if I certainly, if I don't know myself, even more importantly on how I tend to respond to things, I'm going to have a difficult time. I'm going to not make cognitive decisions with my brain, but I'm going to react out of my experiences and woundedness and my limbic brain. So knowing, knowing myself and knowing where I'm going is, is super important. And if that means, you know, you have to abstain from a few things or, or you have to probably. On the flip side, for me, I have to consciously engage in things. Like I, I will need to make sure that I don't become a wallflower in certain situations. I like, I'm not there just to go. I'm there to, to engage and to be a part. And that will, that will help.

So, yeah, it's like, because some of the things for me are I know I'm going to walk if I, if I know I'm going to walk into a situation where there's going to be where there has been in the past a triggering person or situation, and I don't make A plan, that's a. That's a problem. And then another thing, and I. And I don't know where everyone who's listening is at when it comes to. To alcohol. But, like, food and alcohol are two things that you're gonna run into every single time you have any Christmas celebration. And when you are potentially eating off of, you know, a plan that you're on or eating a lot of unhealthy sweet snacks, whatever, and you're drinking alcohol at the same time, and you're also around these triggering people in situations, there's just not a great combination. And so I think being aware of the situations you're going into and making a plan, that's what we need to be aware of, that it's important for me to create a plan. And if you do this with your spouse or you do this with a group member or friends or family, who there. I think it's really important to know that boundaries can easily get crossed when you take triggering situations, bad eating habits, and add some alcohol that just can end poorly.

Yeah. And whether someone ever drinks or not, I think everyone can relate to that truth. That there's just layers. There's layers of things at Christmas, from relationships to ways that we numb out or escape and the emotions that come and things that, for those that are nostalgic, maybe put them into kind of an escapist fantasy land, that then when they're back into real world with their kids that are not the picturesque family they just saw in the movie, they get angry about that. And for others, it's being triggered by past loss or things like you described, Dan. So I think, yeah, just being aware of the layers of things that come at us. The other part I thought of, what we need to be aware of going into any situation or celebration is just having that firm awareness of who can I reach out to and what is my plan. You know, just because we're going into a Christmas break or maybe you have some vacation you should still have, if you're in group, you should have a commitment to change that you're working on, that I really think over breaks or holidays can kind of be that focal point. Even that North Star, if you will, that says that's something I'm keeping my eye on, that I'm heading towards, that will help me stay healthy. And I know I'm going to report back to my group on it. So I'm really making it a practice to stay focused there. But then if things are starting to go sideways, whether about my commitment or just emotionally Knowing how I can reach out to someone, because I do think we can hear those voices of, oh, everyone's with their family, everyone's busy. No one's going to want to talk to me. And even if that's true, you know, what I've had in most of my groups is we'll say to one another, I might be with family, but call and leave me a message. Because when I see you've called, I'll find a way to a few minutes later or maybe at the end of the dinner to call you back or leave a message and I'll be praying for you. Because we will talk ourselves out of phone calls, assuming everyone's too busy. So just have a plan of how you can make connection. And even if that means leaving a message, that's going to really create that sense of, I'm not just sitting in this challenge alone.

Yeah. So we're going to get into in a little bit some of the healthy habits and practices we should implement. But let's start on what are some of the things that we need to avoid while in recovery during this Christmas season?

Two Come. Come to mind off the bat. And, and we just talked about one, and it. Isolation. That's the number one reason we stay in. In some sort of addiction. But especially in the holiday seasons, I've noticed for me, I will not be isolated physically. There'll be a lot of people around. There'll be a lot of things to do. But emotionally, I almost start to feel overwhelmed. Like there's too many. Too much. Too much interaction going on, and I'll. And I'll look to cut some sort of connection. And the one that I have control over is the one with, like, my group members and the people who are emotionally supporting me. So I have to be very careful to maintain some sort of connection. Yeah. And then the second one is there's a lot of perceived expectations that I place on myself or believe others have of me in this Christmas season. You know, how do we make this right? Something that's always running through my mind, how to make this right for everybody else, how to make everybody else comfortable, how to. And what do I need to do? And. And what should they be doing and how should this go? And it's. It's just crazy how many expectations I have. And then if I ever stop and ask my wife, she's like, what are you talking about? No, nobody cares. That's. That's on you. And, and so what we do now is we sit down and talk about it. Like, what. What do we? What's our expectations of this, of this night or of the season or of this particular holiday? So talk to them and. And come to an agreement, and you'll be much better off, or at least I am.

Yeah, you had two, Dan, so I think I have two as well. The way I thought of it, you know, you talk about isolation is avoiding keeping it to yourself. You know, sometimes we feel like we need to keep it to ourselves to keep the peace, you know, not ruffle feathers, not create conflict. Don't say that thing. And that. That may be true in a social setting, but for you as an individual, you do need to know, where can I go? Who can I go to? When can my wife and I take a walk? When can I process with my brother or, you know, my dad, if I've got a good relationship with him? Whoever is kind of that safe person that you would be able to have times you go, man, here's what I'm feeling, or here's what triggered me today. Here's. And just to be able to kind of get that out. The second thing I think we need to avoid is taking a break from recovery, because I do hear that a lot. We feel like, oh, it's a break. And so suddenly boundaries can go out the window or guardrails, like, well, we were on a trip, so taking my phone into places I usually wouldn't. It's different. It doesn't matter. It's holiday. It's like, no. Your boundaries are probably there for a time like this more than at any other time. And something I would encourage you to do is take out your guardrails or your three circles tool or however you have them written out and go through with a group member or your spouse to just say, are all of these possible for me to follow during Christmas or on our trip or when we're with our family? And if. If any of them need adjustments because it is a unique situation, talk about that with someone ahead of time so that you're really kind of held in a safe space by not just having everything go out the window and then thinking you'll be, you know, safe enough to navigate that without those boundaries.

Yeah, sure.

I have a tendency to wing it. Meaning, like, I don't want to plan. I don't want to talk about it. I just want to. Let's just get there and have a good time. Let's just, like, just wing it. Because it takes so much mental energy to have those conversations and to communicate and to identify those triggering people or situations. And so for me, that is what I would encourage anyone to avoid is just winging it, thinking, oh, it's going to be okay. Like maybe, but there's a really high probability that something's going to happen that you didn't expect. Or for some reason your brain continues to block out that every single Christmas this really hard conversation with this one uncle always happens and you go home really upset and you freak out at your wife or your spouse or your kids or whatever. And so I think for me doing the hard work is really important to not just wing it. Because I'm just telling you, if you walk in unprepared for situations like that, it's never good. At least in my camp, it's never good.

Yeah. And those unexpected situations will happen. There's no way to, to anticipate them all and, and knowing that they will, I mean give, give each other grace. Like, hey, I know we're all just trying to enjoy the holidays. We often say we're just trying to get through the holidays and it's kind of a defeatist attitude.

Yeah, exactly.

It's like, man, it's actually can be really pleasurable. This can be a lot of fun and, and know that we're, we're all trying to have fun and enjoy and there's going to be times when I'm way healthier than I am at other times.

Yeah. So on that note, Dan, what are some good holiday habits or practices that we could implement this week? What could help us not only survive but thrive during this week of holidays?

Well, there's a couple that often get left behind and the first one is self care. My healthy habits tend to go out the window as you're with people late and you, you're tired so you don't get up and read and journal or you don't take time to take your walk or do whatever it is you need to do. So maintain self care, that's, that's one thing that we can do. And then go back to the communication. If there's ever a time to over communicate, it's during these extra stressful times. You don't want to again, let things simmer, let them build up, let even those uncomfortable situations where you think you'll get back to it later, get back to it, circle back and, and take that time. So, and you, you mentioned it. My counselor told me as we were entering towards some holiday, it's like we don't, our addiction never takes vacation so our healing shouldn't either. So stay in group even if you have to Switch the day. If you happen to meeting me on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.

Yeah.

Figure out a different time, figure out a different way, but maintain your healthy habits.

Yeah. Honestly, one of the things that has been most helpful for me, and it's funny because at and Nick, you mentioned it earlier, like the habits and the things that we need to do most in recovery are four times like this, more so than any other time. And so things like going to bed early and getting up early, it's just like, no, it's Christmas. I should be able to sleep in. I should stay up super late. I should drink all this crap and whatever. By crap I meant like hot chocolate and going super sugary. I didn't mean getting shammered or something. But as small as that is, if you go to bed earlier and wake up early, there's just something to that I think is really good for our psyche. And so for me, something as practical as that. Matt, I can tell you last night I went to bed at 9:15 and it was amazing. And that's for me that's just a healthy habit. That's a small thing that I have control over most of the time I have two young kids most of the time I have control over that sets me up for success the next day. And I think that that's a good philosophy to have. What are things that I can do now in preparation for tomorrow that will help me tomorrow? What are things? Small things, whether it's diet, drinking water, going to bed early, waking up early, those kind of things. I think we can get really practical with those and those can be pretty helpful if you add all those pieces together.

Yeah. Yeah. I think all of this to me just says have a plan. Have a game plan of if there are areas where you splurge because it's not bad to enjoy a big meal or eat a bunch of desserts. I think we all have areas that we kind of look forward to even as a splurge over Christmas. But I think then we need a plan of, well, how will I kind of in a healthy way recover from that? How will I compensate that if I do eat a huge meal one night that the next day I'm going to make sure I get some exercise and I have some healthier diet choices. And I've just thought through like, what are the potential hurdles I'm going to face and how am I going to navigate them so that where the areas I do kind of let loose and stay up late playing games one night that, that then the next day I'm not responsible for a whole bunch of things that there's kind of a recovery zone in there because I think if we have a game plan and then we execute it with the help of others, there, there is flexibility within the freedom that we need. You know, it's. It's that discipline in the right areas creates freedom in the way we want it.

Yep, yep.

Something just came to mind. I literally realized this this weekend. I got to, I got to Sunday and realized that I was really irritable and I'd been snapping at my, specifically my four and a half year old, which I tend to snap at him more than anybody in my house. And so I'm saving for his counseling right now. I'm also in counseling right now for his benefit. But what I realized is that on Sunday I get to this point most weekends because I don't tend to read my Bible and journal. Like those are things that I do every day. It's just part of a rhythm that I've created in my life. But on Saturday and Sunday I don't. And by the time I've done a full day Saturday and I'm going to the end and I get to the end of Sunday, it's like. And I had this thought, why am I just like chirping at him? And I realized it's because I break my rhythm and I don't have something that centers me and allows me to connect with the Lord, connect with my body, with my emotions, with my thoughts. And so I'm just like letting those things run rampant without any like recovery work he basically done on it. And so I think being aware of that, and again we've talked about it already on this episode, that those healthy practices that you're already doing now, you need to do them even more so in this time because those are the things that are going to help. So that's just a connection I've made recently. Okay, so a really fun and exciting and loaded word is boundaries. And so first question is this is a two parter. Are boundaries okay? This is not a two parter. This is really a one parter. Are boundaries okay during the holidays or is it ever okay to disregard them when we're around our family?

Well, the loaded question of boundaries is often loaded because we feel like boundaries says you're an unsafe person and I have to put up something to separate us so that you don't hurt me. And the purpose of boundaries is not that. The purpose of boundaries is to protect relationships. So anything a boundary can be for me so that I can engage is. Is a. Is so that I can engage well in a situation. So a boundary is a. Is a loving thing that we can provide to ourselves and others, if we're honest. We're going to have to change or be very purposeful in our boundaries over the holidays. It's. Again, it's a unique time and some of the times the boundaries that we set for normal life just don't apply. I think you mentioned that already, Nick. So for me, an example, I don't ever text another female. I always do it. If I text a female, I include a male in it. Well, I wanted to surprise my wife with a present before I knew that she didn't actually want a present from me. Just not true. She actually does want to. You know what I mean? It's complicated anyway, but she's gonna love.

It when she hears this episode.

I know.

Yeah, she.

She might. So I. A friend of ours was going to get the gift and so that I could give it to her as a surprise instead of just texting her, I crossed up. I set a new boundary. I texted her and her husband. But without Jen, I would never have done that. I would always include Jen on the text to someone else like that. So. So I updated and amended my boundary so that I could remain safe. You know, I'm. I'm keeping true the value I have, but still was able to. To accomplish a goal. So we just have to be really purposeful and it's probably time to update like you said, or. Or reset our boundaries as. As the holiday dictates.

So, yeah, I think we need to be clear about what the boundaries are for that. If I have a boundary either to help my spouse feel safe and continue to rebuild trust, or I have a boundary because I'm aware of areas that I become triggered and are part of my old pattern into acting out. Those are there to help and protect me. And why would I remove them? That I really think would be foolishness. Because it's essentially saying, I can handle this by myself now, without the boundary. And that's classic addiction. Thinking of I can do it alone and then how many times I've heard stories or looked into my own story. And that's the very thing that started a downward spiral because, like, I ignored all my Internet boundaries and I was wasting time online. And pretty soon you're triggered and you're ending up places you never planned to go. But it all started with you ignored boundaries. So if we can remember, boundaries are there to help me and help rebuild trust with My spouse. Why would I want to let go of them now? It can also be helpful to maybe distinguish between boundaries and disciplines, because I think if we have disciplines about how much we exercise, how much sleep we get, those we might fudge on some during a break. But that's not about keeping us from addiction. Those are things we're working on growing. And I think there's a difference there where we can take a little holiday of, hey, usually I work out four times a week. But that we're on this trip with family, it's probably only be once or twice. And that's okay. I'm still moving in the right direction, but I'm going to give myself a little freedom to not have to be, you know, for the really structured person, as structured. But just like you said, Trevor, we have to know what helps us, what keeps us moving down that path, because I think there can be some flexibility. But we don't want to remove anything that's keeping us healthy and away from an addiction or something that could really hurt other people.

I think one of the things too, with this question, because we will end up around family. And I think for me, I'll just speak. One of the things me and my counselor have been talking about, he used this phrase called a cloud of legacy. And it's something where we all have this innate drive to make our parents or caregivers proud of us or affirm us or appreciate us. And so for me, I'm very quick to lay my boundaries down at the feet of that. I want my parents to feel loved and pursued. And I think at times what I do is I end up taking. Taking responsibility for their expectations, even though they may not have it. It's what I've projected is their expectation. And recently I was reading through some of Cloud and Townsend's book, Boundaries, and they describe it as a boundary is identifying what is my job and what isn't. My job and what isn't my job is to meet the expectations of everyone, is to make sure that my parents feel loved and appreciated by me bending over backwards and dropping all of my boundaries and being unhealthy. And I think the reason why I would suggest having boundaries if needed. I mean, don't just arbitrarily throw boundaries around, but if it's needed, understand that those boundaries are for that family member's benefit, but also for, I think about my family, my wife and my kids. If I'm, you know, fudging on. That's such a funny word. I'm sorry if I am Fudging on my boundaries, that tends to put me further down the faster scale. I tend to be more anxious, tend to be more critical. And that impacts my wife, that impacts my kids. And so I think that we need to understand that our boundaries are not just so that we are healthy, but that my health, or lack thereof, does impact the people directly around me. And I think that's important when getting into the holiday season, to consider other people in that way.

So if we do find ourselves at family functions or celebrations, which many of us will be at over this holiday, and the various trips we take, and we realize that we are in a place, we're becoming triggered, and maybe that's triggered emotionally, or maybe it's triggered towards our old addictive behavior. What are ways we would suggest someone could handle this?

That is the more loaded question, because that is so individual. Like, depending on the situation, who you are, how you handle your triggers in general. I mean, I can speak for myself. If someone's triggering me. Like, if I'm in a conversation and I get angry, my tendency is to shut down. That's not necessarily a bad thing in the moment because it doesn't escalate anything at the time, but it. But it can make the rest of the evening suck for myself and everyone else as I'm, you know, down and feel angry and frustrated. So, you know, for me, maybe a better response is to say, hey, you know, I'm gonna go grab a Coke, and, you know, yeah, I don't know.

Do whatever and get away.

Remove my.

Yeah, don't say that.

But Adelaide. Exactly. You never know. But. But really there. It's so dependent on. On who you are and what the situation is. So, again, this is where knowing yourself and knowing the situation you're walking into is so important so that I can know. Is this something. A company Christmas party with, you know, 400 people where you know you're going to run into someone that you, you know.

That guy from accounting. It's always that guy from accounting.

Well, that. Yep. Gary from hr. He's a jerk. And good thing he works in hr. Yeah.

Yep.

All the jerks work in hr, that's for sure.

Wow. Oh, I'm sorry. If you're a listener and you work.

In hr, that's going to be a very different situation than, you know, a potentially intimate family. Yeah. You know, get together. So. So really just know and map out what you need to do and the situations that you're gonna endure.

And off of that, too, if you know that and you've made A plan. Part of that plan should be reaching out to a group member saying, hey, I'm about to go into a situation and maybe it's a day before, maybe it's the day of whatever it is, just say, hey, this weekend I'm gonna be with some family or I'm gonna be with some friends. And I tend to get triggered around this individual or this situation. I'm going to check in with you at the end of the night, or if I get triggered, I'm going to check in with you. I'm just going to send you a text, and I just want you to be prepared for that. Just be aware that I'm going to send that. And what's interesting is when you schedule that and you kind of make that agreement, there's a little bit of accountability that's built in. And so for me, I've already established before I even get into the situation, I know where I'm going to go when that happens. Maybe it doesn't happen. Great, great, awesome. Carry on. But if it does happen, I know I've already established that person. Another thing too is depending on in your recovery journey with your spouse, if you guys are at a healthy place or a healthier place where communication is open and you both feel safe with each other, then your spouse could be that person, too. I've had that where me or my wife will get triggered by something and we'll walk up to each other and just be like, I'm really struggling right now. Could you tap in for me? I'm gonna go to the restroom. I'm gonna go get some water. I'm gonna go outside. Whatever. Don't go outside. It's really cold. But I think that that's okay. And again, that's part of the planning that if we know that this is potentially a triggering situation and it's going to be tough, we've already had a plan. We've already talked about it on the drive over there. Then when we walk in, we're not going to be surprised. And I'm quick to just sometimes my wife, if she does get triggered, I'm just like, what? Really? No, they didn't mean it that way. And I'm just minimizing it. But for me, and it has helped me, if we make a plan going in, I know there's that potential. And so I'm prepared for when that situation comes up and I can respond a lot more understanding with a lot more understanding and grace. So again, planning, but then identifying who that person is and reaching out I think is going to be really helpful.

Yeah. We talk about in our recovery journey that we need an escape plan. And I think when we're in, whether it's a social situation or with family, and we're aware that we have emotional triggers, past woundedness, things that we're working through to have that escape plan, whether it's with a spouse or a family member that just. Just kind of code words of, hey, I need to grab something from the car, or I left something in my coat, I need to use the restroom. Just. And that doesn't mean you're going to run away and not come back. I don't advise just because then you're really getting into your limbic brain and fleeing. But when you need time to take a couple of minutes of deep breaths and what you were saying earlier, Trevor, to get centered and kind of get back to a place where you're okay with yourself, okay with God, and in a healthy mindset. You know, we. We joked about it before this podcast began, but it's something we refer to as staying within your window of tolerance is where you're able to think clearly. Your prefrontal cortex in your brain is still engaged. You're able to be rational and approach people with decency. When any one of us gets triggered emotionally or sexually, and our heart rate goes up and our vision focus and our frontal lobe is shutting down, that's called going limbic. And if we're going limbic, nothing good is going to happen. And so that's where you need. And if you realize I'm getting to a limbic place, whether in relationship or just old triggers to old behavior, I need to be able to escape to a spot where I can refocus, take deep breaths, and get back into that healthy window of tolerance, because then I can function better. So if you don't know what that would look like for you, as Dan said, I think it could be different for every person. But if you just kind of sit in the situation and believe, well, I'm going to endure it, you're probably going to end up blowing up at someone or going further than you meant. And so you need to have that plan and communicate it to other people.

Yeah, I feel like we've talked a lot of different encouragements for people, just things to be aware of. But just as we end this episode knowing that only in a few days people will be stepping into Christmas with their immediate family, but then might have celebrations around that time, what encouragement would you just give to those people? In this season.

I alluded it to it a little bit earlier. But this isn't. Doesn't have to be a time necessarily that we just endure and. And try to get through. This can be a really good time of year. And especially if we take the perspective of. I can literally create new experiences and memories based on this Christmas. And there's a lot of baggage from the last ones. I. I have my own. And Christmas time is a pretty difficult time for. For us in the sense of that's when everything really came out and we went into a horrific Christmas and my wife threw away all my Christmas gifts that I gave her that year, which I'm glad for, because I don't think I could stand to look at them at this point because it would just make me feel. I mean, it was a. It was an awful, awful time. But this Christmas is this Christmas. And I can be attentive and I can be loving and I can be all the things that. That I. I value this time. And over time, that will become a reality as well. So it's an opportunity for me and. And I. That's encouraging. That's for anybody.

That's a good line. This Christmas is this Christmas. It's okay to move on from the last one.

Yeah. That's what recovery is all about, is being present. Right. Being able to live in the current moment and be fully myself and at peace and not caught up in the past or living in fear. So that. That's a great word. And I think what came to mind for me, we have brought up a lot of concerns, dangers, things to watch out for. But I would just encourage everyone that there are many hidden opportunities, I think, within our Christmas celebrations where we can learn more about ourselves and in our spouse. And I would encourage you to go into those situations just with open hands and an open heart to God saying, help me to see new things about myself. Because if you're in your especially, you're in your first year of recovery, there are probably things that will come up in the next week that you're learning about, like in group or other places. And there's going to be some connect the dot moments of like, oh, I didn't realize how much I kind of just give in to whatever my dad asks and I don't stand up for myself. I didn't realize how much I've taken after my mom's personality of trying to make everyone happy. Oh, man, I've never seen. And some of these things might be at first a little humbling, like, oh, man, that's hard. But see the opportunity of how much you can grow of understanding yourself in all the contexts of your life. Because that's, I think, where we talk about healing being this long journey, that even if you've had a few good weeks of recovery, if you haven't learned to implement that recovery in all the different parts of your life, which includes your celebration of holidays and family of origin issues, then your healing is still incomplete. So this is an opportunity to keep growing, to keep learning, and then to implement what you learn into your future. Recovery.

Recovery.

Two things come to mind. One is relapse is a possibility around holidays. And so I think, and I'm not suggesting that you should or that it's healthy to. What I'm suggesting is to just be aware and pay attention. Identify the things that did trigger you, identify the things about your family of origin that you're starting to see in recovery, show up over and over again, those themes. And so just pay really, really close attention to where you're at emotionally and where you're at as far as getting triggered. And those moments of going limbic, it's really hard to think clearly. It's almost. It's actually impossible when you go limbic to think clearly. But reflect back on those moments. I mean, don't just let those moments sit in the past. And then one of the biggest things that's helpful for me in recovery in any season, but specifically in this one, is pursuing those outer circle habits, those healthy things, and specifically scheduling those things. Because as I said at the top, this is a time where there isn't a lot of schedule. The rhythm is messed up. It's not your everyday kind of week. And so if you can schedule those things out. One of my favorite authors and productivity guys, Michael Hyatt, says, what gets scheduled gets done. And so if you schedule recovery, if you schedule health, it'll get done. So I think that's just my final encouragement. It's funny, like, we walked into this thinking, you know, this is going to be just another one of those, like, prototypical Christmas episodes. But I think we talked about a lot of really good stuff. I think that we revisited a lot of things that are helpful in this season. And I will say this, if you're listening to this episode after Christmas or even in 2022, that's okay because these principles still apply. Absolutely. But it is possible. I want to just circle back to what Dan said, that this can be a season you're not just surviving, but you are thriving. And this Christmas, it can be this Christmas. Those are just two really good words. So we do Listener hope you have a very Merry Christmas and you do continue moving on in health and recovery because it is possible. Dan, thanks for hanging out with us and Merry Christmas.

So grateful to be here for the fourth time this year.

And wherever you're at on your journey, Pure Desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is impacted by sexual brokenness or betrayal trauma, go to PureDesire.org and let's start the healing journey today. Today. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Each week we put out new content to help you on the road to healing and freeing. And lastly, never stop being healthy.