260 - The Pure Desire Podcast Turns 5!

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma.

What is up?

I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 260 of the Pure Desire podcast. It's our five year podiversary. Honestly, our podcast will be in kindergarten this fall. My coffee's over here. Keep your sparkles to yourself. Thanks. Here joining me as always. You guys know him, it's my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Roll out the barrel we'll have a barrel of fun everybody now Roll out the barrel, anybody. We've got those blues on the run.

I honestly, I've never heard. That's a song.

That is a song.

Okay.

And Trevor, I have to say I'm a little chagrined that that did not land home with you because thanks for.

Slipping that word in, by the way.

Yes, we love that word. It is actually a song that is sung at the stadium of your favorite football team at every home game.

I see.

So the fact that you don't even know it, I'm a little, you know, questioning some of your. Your Packer fandom.

Oh, my gosh, no.

Truth be told, I was with a group of guys last week and it came up and they're like, well, I wonder if Trevor would know. And I said, well, I'll sing it and we'll find out. And so we are giving you a hard time that you haven't actually been to a game of your favorite team. But Lord willing, Lord, maybe a listener today will be like, trevor, I'm getting you to a Packers game. And if they did, then you will thank me for giving you a hard time about the stadium song. They actually sing it at all Packer home games, Brewer home games, and I think Milwaukee Bucks home games. So. Because it's called the Beer Barrel Polka, and if you're from Wisconsin, I guess that's like right up there with the national anthem.

Okay, well, so, yes, so it is. It's very clear that my fandom is limited. And honestly, I'll just say it's limited because I live in Oregon and the packers are not in Oregon. And yes, I know where the packers play. No, I am not one of the people who has bought ownership in the team. Whatever. That's not why we're here today, people. And so just leave me alone. Nick, we. And I said this to you earlier today, like, this five years is a big deal. And it's been for me, it's my favorite part of what I get to do for my job. I love my job. But this is like my favorite part. And it's been really cool that you and I have gotten to do this for five years. And so, as you can see by all the decorations and the sparkles, if you will, that we are celebrating the fact that we've been doing this for as long as we have.

Yeah. I mean, in truth, it's gone by fast. You know, you asked me, does it feel like it's been five years? And I'm like, well, no, nothing. Seems like it's been five years lately. But, yeah, I just think we've had a lot of fun. We've rolled out the barrel for five years to help people understand sexual addiction better, what betrayal recovery looks like, having conversations people don't always get to have. And I think when you're doing what you enjoy and people are feeling helped by it because we've heard so much of that kind of feedback, it does go by fast. It's not a chore. It's a job that we love getting to do. And it's grateful to be with all of you to celebrate five years.

Yeah. And I mean, you know, a little bit of insight into what we talked about when we started. How old were you when we started?

I said I was 39.

39.

And I was still in my 30s.

I was 29, so I was still in my 20s. So we're both kind of grieving maybe a little bit, some of the things we lost. But otherwise. But we're enjoying.

We've moved ahead in life for sure.

So today we're gonna do a number of different things. You know, we talked about this. We sent it out in an email, which, by the way, if you're joining us lately, the link that we had sent out wasn't working. So this is a new link. So as you jump on, we're so sorry about that. But. And for. Honestly, for the listeners who are listening, the day after we livestreamed this on.

YouTube, no different for them. Yeah, we're definitely 10 years from now or 10 years from now.

Just know that's what we're talking about. But today we're going to look at some reviews that we've got, maybe some history of the podcast, really history of pure desire, some of the things that are coming, why we keep doing the podcast. And I really just try to have a fun time talking about our ministry, where we're going, what we've done. And so, Nick, is that the connection is the connection of your intro, just that we've been rolling out.

Just it's a Celebration. And, you know, the brewers, if they can play it for 82 games a year, I thought it would make sense that we could sing it for one podcast in five years. It's. It's one of their celebration songs.

So. 260. I've missed. I want to say I've missed, like, three or four maybe, but we've done this for a while. That's a lot of episodes.

Yeah, sure is.

All right, well, as I always say, every single week, before we jump into the actual content of today, subscribe to the podcast. And if you're watching this on YouTube, subscribe to our YouTube channel. We put up the episodes every single week so you can watch them. I know, for me, I love to watch interviews. I love to see people's faces and how they interact and the. Just the dynamic of relationship. But subscribe to the podcast on all the platforms that we're on, too. We're on all the major platforms, and we'll get into some of the reviews today. And honestly, like, those reviews mean a lot to us, and you'll see why. I mean, we get some of that stuff from people every single week. And so that actually helps people find the podcast. You can follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagramuredesirepdmi. We're actually on LinkedIn too, but don't judge us, because we're just starting to get into that game. But then, Nick, we just. With people coming in, watching, and as a part of celebrating this five years, we do want to push, really, one of our. The favorite event that we have every single year that's coming very, very soon. And that's the Pure Desire Summit.

Yeah. Not only our favorite event, but it is the only national event that we host. That is our event. And we really want it to be that high point of anyone who is in recovery, whether you're in week one or decade two. Like, we just want to add wind into your sails in that recovery journey. And as I was thinking about it, you know, recovery, there's so many pieces of it that a part of us wants to avoid. Right. Like, we want to avoid the hard work. We want to avoid facing some of the mess of our past. We want to avoid relationship difficulty. And I think it's human nature to come up against points. It's just like, ugh, this is hard, or, could I do something easier? Could I stop doing that? And what we want to encourage people with in this year's summit is that when you go all in, there's really benefits. The way that God uses That in your life and shapes and transforms you. And so I think from a number of different angles, from men, from women, women from people on the recovery side, betrayal side, you're going to just hear encouragement about what is it like to be all in on recovery and to stay all in, whether you're a group member or group leader or just trying to encourage other people on their journey. And so I think we're gonna have a great time. Got great speaker lineup, and I just hope people will join us, whether in person or at home. It's going to be good stuff.

Yeah. And if you do want to register, we have multiple options. We have in person here in Troutdale, Oregon, at Harvest Christian Church. We have online registration. You can register online and watch from wherever you want to in the world. And then we also do have host sites. So far, we have one host site, and it's Petra Church. And where is petrochurch so that people can maybe check that spot out?

It is in western Pennsylvania, Lancaster County, Lancaster County.

So all of this can be found. And you can register from puredesire.org summit22 and Nick will be speaking. Ashley Jamison, Bob Vandermeer. We have Dr. Julie Slattery. We have Jay Stringer. It's going to be a lot, a lot of fun September 16 and 17 of this year. So go register. Summit. PureDesire.org summit22 all right, let's. Let's get into it. Maybe. Here's a little bit of inside information for those who are watching and now for those who are listening, that we normally record that intro, what you just heard, we record that after the. The episode.

So We've just introduced YouTube viewers to the beauty of the intro they've missed. Now they feel like for 260 episodes, this is what I've been missing.

Oh, man, I'm so sorry.

Or maybe they're glad. Like, oh, I'm glad I just jumped into the episode.

If that's how you feel, then you know it's okay.

Then you're watching the right medium. YouTube is for you.

That's right. Okay, so first we just wanted to read some reviews. And this is not a way to, like, highlight us or anything like that, but just we wanted to talk about and kind of unpack some of the things that people have said and how meaningful, really, the conversations that we've had, the guests we've had on how meaningful this podcast really is. And honestly, we'll get into the history of it, too. But I don't think I expected it to be quite like it is. I didn't expect to get this kind of feedback. So let me just read the first one. The first review. God has Blessed Me. A five star review by Slave no More said. I can't say enough how God has used PD to infuse the gospel of Christ into my life. I was one of those who loved Jesus since I was 18, but continued to act out with porn, hurting myself and all those around me. I was dying a slow and lonely spiritual death. Like the Hebrew nation. Love this, by the way, this Old Testament language here. But like the Hebrew nation who cried to God for release from the bondage of the Egyptians, my cries were heard by my father, who provided a Moses pure desire to lead me out of slavery to to pornography and into a land of milk and honey. I just got goosebumps. My wife and I both lead Pure Desire groups now and are working our way through the connected couple study. Thank you God. Thank you Ted and Diane Roberts, and thank you Nick, Trevor and Justin, probably others, for providing so much encouragement through the podcast to those of us that are now working to defeat the enemy who's been squatting in the promised land. Bless you. I like honestly. So the listeners of the podcast, you guys know this, that I have a treasure file and I keep it in my office and it's things that I print out just to remind me of what we do and that it matters. Because as much as I love hanging out with you, Nick, that's not just why I do it. I don't just sit here to hear your great intros, which, by the way, I love, of course. But it's something that's really cool to see that the conversations we've had, the people we've talked to, and really sharing our story really does mean something to people. And that's what I love, is that we're able to share and as we share and as we invite people into these conversations that we're just sitting across the table having, that God's using it in people's lives, it's really, really cool.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard pure desire called Moses, but that's pretty cool to think about. You know, we're walking into enemy territory and maybe not quite with the fervor or acting of Charlton Heston, but we're saying let my people go and we're leading people to a promised land, that we really, truly believe that freedom is what God has for us. But many of us have lived in slavery because we don't know any other way. And so that's pretty cool analogy. And shout out to our producer, Justin. He got some love in that review. That's awesome.

Go ahead, put yourself on screen. Do it so people can see it. There he is, Justin. So good. We don't normally do that, by the way. We don't normally have a camera on Justin, but he is Justin. I've just seen the playback now on my computer. This is awesome. But he. I will take this opportunity to say that our podcast would not be what it is without Justin. And he knows that. And he's probably gonna get embarrassed and he's not gonna put the camera on him. Cause he's probably flush right now. But we couldn't do it without him. And so we do love you, Justin, and love the work that you've done. So. Okay, let's keep going. Reviews.

All right, next one. Said fantastic podcast, a five star review from GB Dave P. He said, from the frequently asked questions to the girls, I assume he means the women's only. To the real accounts of true struggle. The POD podcast addresses the ugly truth of what porn can do to relationships. These guys give helpful, practical tactics that you can apply and use to fight the evils of porn and porn addiction. A must listen for true intimacy with your spouse. And I think that review really captured a lot of why we do the podcast. To provide practical tools, relevant information, and really about relationships that it's not just, you know, get free by yourself and in privacy and silence, you know, and then act like you're fine and never tell anyone. Recognizing the impact on so many relationships. And I know for a lot of couples the podcast has been one of their connection points. Because when you're in recovery, you do tend to do his group, her group, or his counselor, her counselor, his approach, her. And those meeting points where you do something together are far and few between for some couples. But I know the podcast has been a place they both listen, they can discuss it. There's common topics. So we're really grateful to see the way that that's developed.

Absolutely. And what a great way to say it. A muscle sin for true intimacy with your spouse. Because that's what we're hoping. And I mean, honestly, we share some intimate details of our story on here. And we do that because we know that that's how you become known by other people. We know that that's when you share that and you're able to hear that from your spouse. That's where you really do experience that intimacy. So super cool. Okay, so let's read a negative One. Are you ready? So this says. I don't understand. This actually says, great podcast, but two stars.

They're conflicted.

Yeah, okay. And I'm just gonna read what was written. I'm not even sure I completely understand it, but only issue I have is whatever issue that is talked about is put in a box and everything associated with it is in the box. Most of the time I'm sorry, I'm just thinking, like, what's in the box? Sorry, most of the time I'm not in the box. Just listening. It sounds like they were just listening to the Great Sex Rescue or the Great Guide, the Good Girl's Guide to Great Sex episode that we did. And I've never been a part of a group that thinks that way, so I don't know if I understand the two stars, but it sounds like some of our conversations can be limited to just that one aspect or conversation.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's fair in that we're doing 260 episodes here, and so some of them aren't going to relate to you. I mean, if you're not leading a group, groups for leaders might feel like, oh, that's not for me. Groups for women, men feel like, oh, that's not for me, and vice versa. But I think as we found and as we've tried to encourage our listeners, even when you see a title or a topic that you think, oh, that's not for me, I'm always surprised how quickly it does touch on broader topics and the things we're going through. And so I get that probably every listener has had episodes. They're like, yeah, you know, that one wasn't. That one didn't feel like it was for me. But I think sometimes you don't feel like an episode's for you, but there's a nugget of truth or there's a way of thinking. And so even if someone felt like, you know, that was Sheila Ray Gregoire's information, you know, kind of that. That view of sex, that there should be duty sex, and we should, you know, you need to meet my needs. Even if someone feels like, oh, I've never thought that way, I think in an episode like that, there was still thoughts of, well, how do we help change a culture that might think that way, or that might have used First Corinthians 7 in that way, how do we be part of the change? So maybe we're not in the box the podcast is addressed to, but we could be part of creating the change that we hope to see. In those areas. So, again, like I said, I get it. But I just encourage everyone keep an open mind and trust that in some of those episodes that don't feel like they're for you, God's going to really speak some truth to you. That might catch you by surprise.

Absolutely. And we've had one of our co workers, Mike Maxwell, and I've recently actually heard this from other people, but he is the one who said it first. In my world, the idea of chew the meat and spit out the bones, that we can all have something. You're smirking on your face. Is there something funny that.

Sorry, I'm just thinking ahead, and this is live, and I'm reading the title of the next comment is what I'm smirking About.

This is good. And Mike Maxwell, you're here. Let's just do it. Billy Hungate, you're here. Bill, we love you. Emily. What's up, dude? James, glad you're on here, man. Sorry, just seeing all the people who are on here with us right now. But he told me that idea. Mike said that the chew the meat, spit out the bones. That idea of we can all benefit from hearing perspective from people we may not agree with. You know, like one of the episodes that we had, Paul Young, and Paul Young is a pretty polarizing person for a lot of people. But if you sat down and you listened to that episode, his story was incredibly powerful. How God has really renewed him and restored his family. And, you know, would you agree with everything that everyone has said, including you and me on the podcast? Probably not.

That's what I was gonna say. After 260 episodes, I doubt I would agree with myself about everything. And if someone feels like, oh, yeah, I agree with everything they say, actually, you probably need to develop some more convictions because it's disagreeable. It's natural that when we're hearing from guests and others, we don't look for 100% agreement. We're looking for the heart of their message or what's something that we feel adds to the conversation. And Sheila Rae Gregoire is a great example of that.

Definitely.

Everything she says, is it pure desire's motive or the way we approach it? Not necessarily, but we think she's really bringing a needed paradigm shift that we want to help get out there. So I think we're all listening through a filter and that's okay. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

So here's the title that made me smirk, and I wanted to get to it. This one says, just for you, Trevor. But posted on a public forum for the world to see. So it's just for you to hear, but I'm going to let everybody read it, and we're going to actually read it out loud now from Juan. He said, honestly, though, at a moment in my life when I felt lost, angry, and depressed with my addiction, I remember searching Father Wounds and found this podcast. I will be forever grateful for that moment. That same year, my wife and I started counseling with Pure Desire, which God used to save myself and my marriage. I would argue that there is no other organization out there doing what PD does, and this podcast is a great weekly rhythm that helps me and my wife pursue healing. Thank you for all that y' all do. I mean, I feel like that involved more of us, but I'm glad he addressed it to you.

Well, let me just.

Good words.

I'll just. This is why. This is why. Juan from Texas, y', all, is his username. I love it. I'm always telling people to leave a review every single week. And it. Honestly, sometimes I wonder, does it even work? Here's proof that this guy did so. That's what I think. I think that the subject line was more just like, okay, I hear you guys.

Or didn't we write the blog Father Wounds on our website? Or was that another staff member?

I don't think so. No, I think so.

I thought that was the connection. I like what you said. That makes sense to me.

I love these stories where it's at the exact time that someone needed it, that they found the exact resources God intended them to find to help them to find that healing. And what a cool way that they started counseling. And. Yeah, I mean, and this is one of those things I think for me that I have to keep reminding myself of. And I mean, anybody who's in ministry, you know, you know this, that sometimes you lose sight of the fruit of what you do. Like, sometimes you just. You kind of get caught up in your job. You go throughout the day and answering emails and doing your projects and things. But when I hear stories like this, it's. It's a really cool reminder that God's hand has been on this ministry and continues to be on this ministry. And I know for you and me both, we're super, super thankful to be a part of it.

Yeah. Yeah. Super encouraging. I mean, the way people find pure desire, there's a thousand entry points, but I think God uses those to lead people into their healing. And when we hear about what that connection is, it's like, wow, who knew that the Google search engine and the words Father wounds would lead someone to a podcast and be a part of changing their lives. I mean, how awesome is that?

Yeah, super cool. All right, let's. Here's a short one from Ann Chicky. Ann Chicky. Amazing. Five stars.

It's Anne's chicky. It's a chicky. I don't know.

I'm grateful these are here. They accompany the unraveled group and betrayal and beyond group very well. It helps to hear the further explanations. That is a really cool one to hear because you and I have never been through a betrayal, beyond or unravel group being men. So it's something that oftentimes we. We don't. I don't think we worry because we do have a lot of, you know, a lot of our co workers, our female co workers on. And guests that are women as well, because we want to make sure that we catch everybody. But that's cool to hear. Like, that's encouraging to me that we're not completely missing the mark and that it can still be helpful, even though we've never been through those two types of groups and are both men.

Yeah, yeah. And we want to have a message that sexuality is a people issue, not a men's issue. And yet we do know there are some distinct needs or challenges that men can face that women can face. Based on our culture, family of origin stuff. It just. It hits differently for men and women. And so we do try to be aware of that. And I think sometimes you and I might not have the same perspective, but that's why we've had guests. And I think what I've heard from a lot of women, you know, considering that we are both men, yeah, they get to hear some insights into the male recovery journey from us that they're like, oh, maybe that's what my husband was trying to explain, or that's what his group is doing. So even from just that perspective side, I think we're able to help. And on the flip side, what I liked about it is how they're using the podcast in conjunction with a healing community. And I think that's a great reminder for anyone that's listening or been a podcast fan. And this is as far as you've gone with your healing and you're looking at your life going, man, I'm still really stuck. And I'm listening to that really good podcast, but it doesn't seem to be changing my life. The podcast is not meant to change your life. I mean, we hope it does.

Yeah.

But you really gotta ask the question, who's your community? Where's that place you're able to be authentic and real and you're going through a journey of transformation. Because if you're not doing that, the podcast can only help so much. But in conjunction with that, I think we see that's where the podcast really becomes one more of those support structures in your recovery journey.

Yep, Absolutely.

Okay, next one is from a Combat Spec Ops. Medic. Medic. Sorry. He's saved by his grace. Five stars. This is from Nicholas. He says, very excited to listen to the rest of these podcasts. I'm living in South America right now, separated from my family and my true love, my wife. God has been at work on me and in me for many years now. You did not know that there was help out there like this. I assume they meant. I. Sorry. I truly feel this is an answer to prayer and the start of a very longed for and hope filled new beginning. Praise you, Lord, for the help and encouragement. I love being a narrow gator.

I love that phrase. Narrow gator. That's awesome.

Narrow gator.

Yeah.

He's on the road to the narrow gate. I think it's so cool because a podcast has that global reach. I mean, wherever you are, you download your app or whatever platform you're using and you can get us communication and get insights. And I love that we're helping people that are in those kind of places. And yeah, this review, you know, came in February, so I hope Nicholas continued and he's caught up and has listened to all 260 episodes because it sounds like this really met him at a place of need and a time when he really needed it.

Yeah. And, you know, it's something too, that I don't know if a lot of people are really aware of, but we do. We have people in Australia, we have people in Europe. We have people, man, just looking at it like, we have people in Africa, people in Europe, like literally almost every single continent in the world, we have people who are listening to the podcast, which is super cool because we're limited by language in so many ways. And so, you know, that's one thing that we've considered, but it's really cool. I mean, that's just something. Again, I thought we'd have, you know, people in Gresham who like to, you know what I mean? Gresham, Oregon. Not people who listen all over the world, which is. Which is cool. And it's humbling, honestly. All right, let's keep going. There's another one been broken for a long time now. I can See a way out. 5 stars by Smiggity Smack.

Best username ever.

So good. And I don't feel like I can say it any other way than how I just did. Says, praise God for this kind of transparency. This is literally saving men and women from brokenness. I only wish I had found it sooner. I mean, you know, I think we all wish we would have found, you know, health and healing a lot sooner, but the fact that you found is what matters, I think.

Yeah. Hear, hear. Ditto. Ditto to that. And glad. On the other hand, glad you found it when you did. Yeah, right.

Yeah, absolutely.

Next one says, fantastic podcast. Five stars from David. He says this is probably one of the best podcasts I've come across for dealing with sexual brokenness. I've been through, and in many ways, I'm still going through addiction and sexual brokenness and Pure Desire has consistently been one of the best resources I've found. Through my healing, God has allowed me to be a part of leading other men through the journey. And this podcast is a recommendation I make to pretty much every guy struggling with sexual addiction. The balance between biblical and psychological nature of addiction is incredibly healthy and helpful. Keep up the great work. Nick and Trevor, you guys are a blessing to many. Yeah, keep up the great work, man.

Cool. It's like, you know, and I think one of my favorite things is when people realize that there is a connection between their relationship with the Lord, their sexual health and their body, their emotions, their sexual. It's all integrated. Our friend Rodney Wright talks about, you know, emotional, mental, spiritual, sexual relationship. Like, they're all spiritual. Yeah. And I love that because it helps us view ourselves in an integrated way. So that's the thing that sticks out to me in this, is just that someone can see that there's a balance between understanding the brain and the biology and the biblical nature of what's happening.

Well, and I love what he said that many others have as well, that I found this. It's helped me, and now I'm recommending it. I'm encouraging my group members to listen. And I know we've got groups that we don't require this, and we've got to make sure it doesn't add to someone's burden of homework. But I know there are many groups that just the rhythm of the podcast is part of what they're listening to every week, and they're making it part of their phone calls or texting each other. Did you hear this point? They're discussing it in group. And I think all of that just adds to the sense of community. And so if you've not brought the podcast to your group or to your recovery community to just say, hey, here's something I listen to every week and it's a huge encouragement to me and want to share the link with you guys. And hey, if you listen, let's dialogue a little bit and talk about what impacted us.

Yeah, I love that. Conversational starter for sure. All right, last one. This one says Wowzer. 5 stars by BDC820 Is this a droid? Sorry, I'm watching Star wars with my boys.

I see.

I have attended two different Pure Desire Ministries events and love the books and resources they provide. I could go on and on about ways they've helped me, my personal life and my own struggles. And now as being a parent of a teen, I started having a long drive to work every day and decided to start on these podcasts. As with everything pdm, I'm so impressed. I. I've listened to every episode in the six weeks I've started. Wow, the long commute. That's a lot of podcasts, dude.

Or a long commute. Long.

That's yes. Here still. Sorry bud means my heart is full when I go into work. It builds strength even if I ugly cry. I forgot this is actually. I think this is a woman, which means my heart is full when I go into work. It builds strength even if I ugly cried half the way to work from a single sentence that struck me hard. Definitely happened twice in quotations. Reapply makeup. Maybe this is a guy. That's fine. God's using this podcast along with the resources to help me accept the calling I've known for years God had for me, thanks to all involved. Listen, I know the benefit of an ugly cry. Like, sometimes you just need to get it out. And what's cool is that God can. And this is still one of my favorite things that God can use. Like you and I, and this is something maybe people don't know. Like, we write out the questions and prep a little bit. But like, you and I don't have like a summit planning meeting about this, you know, before we get into it. A lot of it is just trying to be in the moment, be present and have conversations. And what's cool is, you know, you and I don't usually have, like, this is exactly what I'm gonna share. That's exactly what you're gonna share. This is exactly part of my story I'm gonna share and vice versa. But it's really cool that I Know, for me, this, at least, this is my more. My approach that I've seen the Holy Spirit show up in some of the things that I've said off the cuff, that that's what he uses in someone else's life. And I know that he's used people's words in my life that way, too. And so it's. It's so cool that just again, conversations can strike a chord in somebody. And really, what's happening, I'm guessing in those moments of ugly crying on your way to work is self discovery. You're learning something about you, about the Lord. It's. It's awesome.

Yeah. Well, I love the way that, you know, it's starting their day. It's giving them that perspective. And I think that sexual addiction or betrayal, trauma, all that brokenness, can really lend itself to feeling like, I'm alone in this. No one really understands. No one else is going through this. And I think and hope that's one of the things that comes out of the podcast, is people feel like I'm not alone. I'm not the only one. There's. There's actually a whole community of people that understand what I'm going through. And even if my story is unique because it's my story, there are others that can hear it and say I can relate. Yeah, I've. I've been where you are, and here's what helped me. And I think the podcast has been that for a lot of people, even as they maybe go into churches or workplaces or even homes where they don't yet feel they can safely talk about this or have people listen and understand, this is a place they come to and they find that engagement, connection, empathy. And I'm just so grateful for that.

And I like, these mean something to us. You know what I mean? And I see, Bill, you commented, like, you love hearing these testimonies. Like, it's just so cool to see that. It's cool to hear that what we're doing is helpful, and it's even more cool to see that you're figuring it out, your recovery and healing is taking place. That God is moving in your life and that we get to be a small part of it again is amazing. It's such a cool, cool thing. So I'll say this. This is one of the reasons why we do the podcast is knowing that these stories are taking place. Like, if we didn't think this was beneficial, we wouldn't do it. It's a lot of fun, but we wouldn't do it. So Getting to read these, getting to hear these stories, they mean so much to us. And so again, I'm just gonna hit it again. Like, this is why sharing a review is so helpful and letting people know that this podcast has been helpful because it may encourage someone to check it out and that may start their recovery journey.

Yeah, yeah. So keep, keep liking commenting, sharing, passing it around to others.

That's right.

Let's now go back. Trevor and you talked about, you know, it's been five years and we were in our 20s and 30s when we started and now we're slightly older. But to talk a little bit about, you know, why we started the podcast, you know, for me, I came to PD on full time staff in 2016, and I remember for myself that transition from full time pastoral ministry to pure desire. As I would tell people, you know, I'm making a job change and they're asking, where you going? I'm like, oh, pure desire. And this is what we do. You know, from a lot of people in churches, other pastors I'd worked with. One of the comments I kept hearing is this is just not a topic that we're able to discuss. This isn't a conversation people are having. It's not coming up in church. So I'm so glad you guys are addressing this. And I remember kind of feeling that as I started at pd, like, how do we just create those conversations, conversations that people aren't having. And on the one hand, you know, how do we help churches do that? But knowing that for some churches, that might be a very long process. How do we help the person that is ready for healing and just looking for people that are talking about it. And so that's where I felt like a podcast would be a great way to do that and had some of those initial ideas. The timing for the ministry wasn't right. And I'm glad for that looking back because I had the ideas and I had some initial episodes, you know, scratched out on paper, but at that point it would have basically been like me and maybe a plug in microphone on a laptop because I'm not techie, as a lot of our listeners know. I was like, I think I could call a local worship guy and maybe he could set us up in a studio, we could record a bunch at once. And it just, it kind of got tabled until about nine months later, 2017, you got hired and helped take the podcast into that next step. So share a little bit about your journey.

Well, yeah, I mean, I remember as a group leader, I think I was Talking to Rich Moore, I talked to some other staff members and was like, why don't you guys have a podcast? You know, And I think this was probably. This was probably a year before, you know, I had. Trying to remember the timeline a little bit, but before I came on staff, for sure. And I remember when I came on staff, it was one of the things, you know, because of that, I felt myself as a group leader, man, I would really benefit from the dialogue around these topics and how to better do things and get training and perspective. And then when I joined staff, I remember talking to Brian Roberts, who was on staff for a long time, and I remember saying to him, I think we should do a podcast. And I had no idea about that history. Right. I didn't know that you had had those thoughts about it. And I was like, brian, you and Nick should do it. And Brian's like, yeah, no, I think this needs to be your thing. And I'm like, honestly, I had just started. I'd been in recovery for a year maybe, you know, And I was like, what do I know? You know, I'm not. I'm not an expert at all in this field. Some people would argue I'm still not an expert in this field, which is fine. I don't know why I said that, but there you go, insecurity coming through. But I just remember him saying, no, you're going to do this. I think this is going to be really good for you and a really good ministry for you. And I'm so thankful he said that, because for me, again, this is something where not only have I grown in my ability to communicate and be a part of these conversations, but I've learned a ton on this podcast from conversations you and I have had conversations with staff, outside experts. You know, I'm thinking of episodes we've done with Sheila Rae Gregoire. You know, we had conversations. Like, we've had enneagram conversations. We've had conversations about neurochemistry. We just had Preston Sprinkle on, you know, talking about the LGBTQ stuff. Like, for me, I learn a lot. And so I feel like this podcast has also helped me develop because it's not just me pumping out information. Like, I'm also taking in a lot as we go through it. And so it's been. I didn't realize that's what it was going to be, but I just knew it could be beneficial.

And I think we looked around at our staff, and we knew whether it was the counseling team or others on the speaking team, like Heather And, Ashley, it's like we have just this wealth of knowledge and experience here at Pure Desire, but unless people at that time were bringing us in for an event or attending an event, which, you know, that can be a big sacrifice of time, energy, travel, all that, they wouldn't even know really what. What we were sharing, what was happening. And so the podcast, I think, became that avenue where we could introduce people to Father Flanagan that people that have gone through counseling with him. It's. His name's Harry. For those that don't know him, he just gets affected.

Go to the episode where you hear this on the table, and that was.

You know, people on our staff that we knew and loved, but most people would never have heard from them. We could bring them in, we could interview, we could hear their story, get their expertise. And I think that's been another benefit, is people have gotten to know a lot of the staff at PD and the expertise they bring. Because even if you and I don't always feel like the experts, we have experts in areas on staff, and collectively, I think that's what we've seen. That's what makes Pure Desire so strong, is that it doesn't rest on any one person. I mean, we are grateful for Dr. Ted Roberts in starting the ministry. And as any ministry when it's founded, it does kind of just rely on the experience and expertise of the founder. But I'm also thankful for how Pure Desire has grown. And now we've got all these people on staff that bring something, and the podcast has just been a way to let them bring what they do well. And I've loved hearing from our own staff as much as from the guests we bring in.

Yeah, absolutely. I want to tell a quick story. And this happened. Oh, gosh. Eric and Shelley, when you hear this, you're going to kill me, because I don't remember how long ago it was. I want to say it was a year, maybe a year and a half ago. You know, we've been doing the podcast for a while. I go to a fairly large church in the area, and, you know, we know, like a pocket of people there, you know, but it's a big church, and we went. We never go on a Saturday night. Saturday night service. We went to a Saturday night service. I never bring my kids, you know, at that point, I never brought my kids into the service, but we did. And we never, like, we literally never sit in the middle of the rows in the, like, front and center. In the middle of a parent. Yeah. So, like, that's right. But, like, we. We sit down, and I see this couple sitting next to us and their families there, too. And they turn and they look at me, and they're like, are you Trevor Windsor? And I'm like, this is so weird. What is going on? I'm like, because, you know, like, I've been on stage maybe twice, like, helping with announcements or something, but, you know, and they're like, no, from the podcast. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, hi, you know, and they're like, oh, you must be Amy. And point to my wife. My wife's, like, freaking out. Like, who are these people? They know the name of our kids. But what was super cool is the podcast, you know, created this connection with the Bowers. I'm gonna call them out by name because they're awesome. Even if you weren't awesome, I'd call you out by name. But we met, and through that, I was able to, like, we had relationship with them. We invited them to our growth group, and now their group of friends at our church are our group of friends. And they've told us, even recently, just that how meaningful that was. And what's cool is the fact that we have a podcast allowed that to facilitate that connection. You know, that was such a cool thing. And I had coffee with Eric this morning. Like, we meet every Tuesday with a group of guys, and we read through scripture and we talk about life and pray together. So it's such a cool thing. And that's, for me, that's one of the reasons why I keep doing it, is those connections. It's such a cool, cool thing.

Yeah. That's awesome. It's created a lot of unique connections. And I think my favorite is when people say to me, you look a lot different than I expected. Because then I'm always in the back of my mind like, wait, what did you. Is this a good thing, a bad thing? What did you expect? So for those that watch on YouTube, they never will know that, because we've got a lot of people say, I only listen to you.

Like, you know, and I don't. This is like an internal thing. But, like, these are our mugs on a mug. You know what I mean? Like, our mugs are on a mug. I feel like, you know, that's a fairly. And if you're on the podcast, our faces are on the podcast artwork. Where are these people listening? Anyways, I just heard it last week.

So there are still people that are like, oh, you look different than I expected.

Yeah.

All right.

Has anybody said you're a lot shorter than I thought you'd be.

Well, I don't get that one.

Okay. Because Nick's like six' four. I'm not bitter about that at all. Okay, so let's go into a little bit of the history of Pure Desire and maybe reflect maybe on the last five years of the podcast. But for a lot of people maybe, who don't know much about our organization and the podcast is their only connection to us, like, fill people in a little bit. What should they know about Pure Desire and its history?

Yeah. So we're in Troutdale, Oregon, now because Pure Desire Ministries was founded in Gresham, Oregon, when Dr. Ted Roberts, who was a foursquare pastor, he was at East Hill Church in Gresham. He'd been there since the 80s and always had a heart for counseling men and women, having that one on one connection to really help them grow. And. And he realized in that journey that underneath the typical issues of marriage, parenting, finances that men were coming to him with, he would drill down and ask questions like Ted is so good at doing. I think his spiritual gift is interrogation, you know, getting down to really what's going on. He'd find out that under the surface, all these men were dealing with sexual brokenness, whether pornography, affairs, clubs, you know, prostitution, just, you name it. And he's thinking, I can't help these men grow in Christ if I don't help them kick their issues with pornography and sexual addiction. Because every one of them, in his words, he'd say they were all praying their Bible, reading it, praying, confessing. They were working, trying hard, and the only message they were getting was try harder, and it wasn't working. And so he went, just studied the topic a lot studied under Dr. Patrick Carnes, who was a leading secular expert on sexual addiction and recovery. And with Dr. Carnes permission, brought a lot of those teachings from ITAP and put it on a biblical foundation and started creating a workbook, journey for Men. And then Diane Roberts partnering with them to do similar for the betrayed spouses. And at that time simply called for men only. For women's sexual addiction issues, there was accept no substitutes. And then for women only. And I forget which of the women's groups was for addiction and which was for betrayal. But for the women that were there 20 years ago, they remember, anyway, I just love this imagery that that there's a small group of men that are there to study sexual addiction. And week in and week out, Dr. Ted comes with a new three hole punched chapter. And they add it to their you know, three ring binders and they're writing the workbook as they go, which over time became the seven Pillars of Freedom workbook that we now have Betrayal and Beyond for Women unraveled for women. A lot of the roots of it are still from those days. And then many of our listeners maybe know Dr. Ted Roberts from writing the book Pure Desire, which came out in the late 90s, early 2000s, that that name kind of got crystallized with Dr. Ted at that time. And a funny story that I don't know if a lot of people know is I really think our ministry may have actually gotten its name from a book editor at Regal Publishing who first published Pure Desire. Because I've seen the original manuscript that Dr. Ted turned in and it was not titled Pure Desire. It was like a Christian Man's guide to Overcoming Compulsive Sexual Behavior.

I'm not quoting anything almost, but yeah.

It is something like that. Like wow. And I'm just pict this editor at Regal, that's like no humble Pure Desire. And so that was the name of the book that was published at the time, one of the only books in Christendom for helping men and women with their broken sexuality. And then it was 2007 that as a foursquare pastor in a very successful church, Dr. Ted felt like the Lord was calling him to make this a non profit ministry independent of any church. And so in 2008, stepped out of East Hill as again, an incredibly successful pastor that could have just ridden the high life on this mega church right into retirement, but instead stepped out of that security and salary into the unknown of launching a nonprofit. We tell the joke that at the time they had, I think, a cassette tape of Ted preaching and a copy of the book. And they said it cost them $22 to put it together and they were going to resell it for 20, but they were going to make up for it in volume. So he always joke. Yeah, he always jokes. There was not a great business plan. Thankfully, God brought other people in along the way, like his son Brian Roberts. That really helped kind of create a financial base for the ministry. And that's where, under Brian's direction, those three ring binders actually became workbooks that could be printed and resold and distributed. And so that is really what happened. As little as 14, 15 years ago, what was happening at East Hill Church became something that God began doing in the world. And churches having the material to use in their own location and start groups. And many of those groups started by people that had gone through counseling with Ted and Diane or the team here. And over time, God is blessed, and it's continued to grow, and we've just, from that beginning in 2008, literally grown every year. And I don't think that's because we're smart. I think it's because God is using it. And I think at the end of the day, it's because the Lord laid on Ted Roberts Heart a methodology that really was unique and is really effective. And so when people ask me, like, well, why is Pure Desire grown to the size it is? And I'll say with that, we're large in terms of recovery ministries, but we are not large at all in terms of what is needed in our world and the size of other Christian ministries. So in a lot of ways, we feel like we're still trying to figure it out, but in the recovery world, we're one of the larger ministries, if not the largest. And people say, well, how's Pure Desire gotten there? And I'm like, the only thing I can say is it works and it's effective. And because people's lives have changed, they keep telling other people about it, and more people keep using it. And if that's the method of growth we keep building on, then I'm confident God will continue to spread this message to other churches and other men and women that really need it.

I think a thing that you and I have had a lot of conversation about is. And I think this is one of the reasons. I think obviously the primary reason is the Lord just using our ministry. But Dr. Ted is a lifelong learner, and he's someone who is always learning something new. He's always growing and developing. And I think that as the founder of the organization, I know Diane is the same way that that invites people who are of the same mind, you know? And I think that for our organization, that's something we're continuing to push into and not necessarily getting outside of our lane. Like, we're staying inside of our lane and not necessarily looking to different avenues or become something different than what we already are, but to continue growing. I mean, I can say you and I on the podcast, I'll speak for myself. I have learned a ton about betrayal trauma that I didn't know before here. I've learned a ton about addiction. I've learned about new therapy styles and models and.

And 1980s Sunday school songs that you didn't know.

That's true.

Learned a number of those.

That is true. And I'm working hard to forget them. No, but like, pray for you. Thank you. I need it. But that's been one thing that I think sets this ministry apart is just our desire. I think just innately, it's in the DNA of our organization that we just continue to grow and push. And we're not just going to say, okay, we've created enough resources to help and now we're just going to glide through. No, we're always moving and growing. And I think a lot of that came from our founders.

Yeah. Well. And the big vision that I think God put on Ted's heart to say, you know, make a difference in this world of sexual addiction. And. And that's what we're after. And so we feel like it's just a drop in the bucket, but the bucket's slowly but surely getting bigger.

Yeah.

And. And I think we're making a bigger impact. And so we're going to continue doing this. And obviously, this is not like the end of the podcast. This is celebrating the plot twist. What if it was.

What if it was like, yeah, bye. Love you so much.

Curtain call. No, that this is like, hey, we're marking this, but we're continuing forward. And so let's. Let's talk about that a little bit. Trevor, like, why do we keep doing the podcast? Why keep doing this? Couldn't we say everything we need to say in 260 episodes? Why keep going?

Well, I think that's what's so cool, is that. And everybody learns this on the road to recovery and healing is that everyone's story is different, and there are different aspects and dynamics to it, and there are different perspectives on all these pieces to our story. And what I love is we can. You know, just last week, we had a starting pure desire groups at your church episode. We've probably had that episode four times, but we've had four different conversations about it. Like, we've had conversations coming from a pastoral perspective, from a volunteer perspective, from a. When is the best time to have groups start at your church? You know, and so I think that as we. This is what's. I think one of the reasons why we keep doing it is we get feedback or we get questions from people, and not just the FAQ episodes, but emails that come in conversations. Our group teams, you know, is having conversations that we have at events. We were taking that information in, processing it and be like, okay, what's another way that we can address this or have a conversation about it and explore? And I think for you and me, I think that that's. We're just that way we like to explore. We like to have those conversations and give perspective, because you and I, we have opinions on everything, you know, And I think that we're also learning and growing and want to share as we learn and grow ourselves. And so I think that's probably the biggest thing for me is why we keep doing it is just there's. We're never gonna exhaust all of the vantage points you can take on the recovery and healing journey, whether it's all the different domains. Parenting, your own recovery, your marriage, your.

Relationships at work, or the Internet, smartphones.

Yeah, absolutely.

Recovery tools.

Different tool. Exactly. So I think that that's why there's just. It's. We're swimming in, you know, the ocean. And I think even after 260 episodes, like, we've covered a couple miles.

Yeah. I mean, in some ways, you think about the question, like, well, haven't I heard enough sermons? And I'm not trying to say we replace the church or people's sermons, but the same could be said of the Bible's been the same for 2000 years. Most of you've heard all the messages on it, but we don't close that and go, you know, I'm good to go. I've heard everything. I need to hear that there's new insights, there's new things God wants to teach us. There's ways we're being shaped. And so I think we're trying to be aware of as we learn and grow. How do we just keep bringing, like you said, new angles, new approaches as we develop new material, it's helping people think about how to use that material. So back when we started, we kind of only had the Conquer series as a lead in, and then we added Sexual Integrity 101. And so we wanted to help churches think through how to use that. And now we've got the group leader training online. And as we add resources, those get worked into the podcast of how do we use. How do we use this? How do we launch groups around this? I think the field of sexual addiction keeps growing and changing and so bringing in new guests and people that have a perspective we haven't heard before. And then, as we've seen, you know, the stories of healing, I hear from a lot of people those, oh, those are my favorite episodes. There's always another story to hear. And I can't ever think of a time where I've heard a story been like, that's awesome. That's it. I never need to hear another story again. There's something that when we hear A person's story, even if components of it are, like, familiar, just like someone's salvation testimony, you kind of know the punchline is, and then I found Christ. But you want to hear all the ways around it. Like, how did that happen? And I think the same is true. Stories of healing on the podcast. It's just cool to. To hear parts of our story lived out in someone else, and then the unique ways that God met them, the things that stood out to them. I don't know. It's always encouraging. So that's why we're gonna keep doing it, because there's so much there to just keep going after.

Well, and, you know, it's funny too, dude. I think you and I, like, this is what's interesting about recovery, is recovery is not a static one and done. Like, you and I are still growing, and the guests that we have on and other staff we have on, we're all still growing. And I think that that, like, again, we'll never exhaust that. Like, we're not going to cross the finish line until we die and enter glory. Like, so as we're on this journey of growing and developing and getting healthier or unhealthier, you know, as we're going through the challenges of life, we have a lot to share about our experience. I think as well, and I think that, that this is not something where we're just teaching, like, we are sharing and in it with you as we're going through these conversations. So I think that's another unique aspect to it we're sharing from our story.

Yeah, for sure.

Okay, let's do another question. So the next one that we have is where are we headed with the podcast, what we're exploring. And I know you and I have had some conversations about, obviously, what's coming in the next probably couple of months, but as you've thought about this, what are some arenas that you think we're headed to or you want to head to with the podcast or conversations?

Yeah, and we've mentioned some of these things already. But one of the things I would want to say is we do recognize that for many of you, you find the podcast when you are in some of the critical parts of your journey. You're in that first couple of months for that first year, you're trying to navigate couple issues, group issues, how do I do this? And so I really believe that will always be one of the themes that we'll keep circling back to, how to use some of the tools, what to do when you're caught, or what to do when you've caught your spouse, some of those initial things that will keep coming up. I just think there's value in doing fresh episodes and. Well, yeah, we did one three years ago, but if someone's in. In kind of the midst of their healing, you don't want them always having to go back three years. It's nice to just keep that content fresh and new. And so I think continuing to revisit some of those vital topics. And then I look at as. As we continue to learn and grow, we'll just keep bringing that in. So how do men or women in recovery for sexual addiction really support the journey of their betrayed spouse? And how does that betrayed spouse navigate? Recognizing, finding my voice, stating my needs, moving towards my healing, but doing it in a way that supports coupleship? Because I think there are podcasts out there that's kind of like, hey, you're betrayed, and you're in trauma. You just get yourself better and kind of forget him. And our heart is, we want to see couples restored. And so how do you navigate. Because there's a tension there. Like, you can't do your recovery for him because he's hurt you, but you do want to have a mindset of, Lord, how can you bring this back together? So just. I think I was saying all that to look at. There are really difficult pinch points in the journey that I think we want to keep trying to have conversations about, okay, how do I navigate this tension? And because many of them are. They're not problems to be solved. They're tensions to be lived with that in recovery. There's tensions that don't just go away. And we want to help provide you some guidance, some clarity, some things you can hold on to and say, okay, this is hard, but I think I have perspective now that I can get through it.

Yeah, yeah, that's all good. I think one of the things. And you and I have talked around this idea is our heart as a ministry is for the local church. It really is to help churches create a path. You know, the statistic from a few years ago is that 7% of churches have a plan for recovery and healing. So that means that 93% of our churches don't. And so I think for us, our heart is to try to understand that, dissect that, give tools to help churches do it. And one of the ideas we've talked about, and, you know, I'll just throw it out there for conversation.

Okay, sorry, you can't cut that.

I'm gonna take a minute. I was in The. I'll get back to what I was gonna say. Would you say every single episode, yes or no?

It's close.

Okay, so about.

I'd give you 95%.

About 95% of our episodes. Nick coughs in the middle of it like that. What's funny is it's always the same cough. Like, there's no higher pitch, lower pitch. It's not a sneeze. It's a cough.

Am I supposed to vary my cough?

I don't know. I'm just giving. They want to know. The people want to know.

Do they?

I think they want to know. And if you didn't, then there you go.

But too late.

Every single time. And every single time we cut it out. But because you're listening to this live stream, you're watching it. There you go. Okay.

Unless we cut it out of the podcast, in which case this minute will be very. Absolutely not.

It is staying in. I want people to know every single time. Okay. I think one of the ideas you and I have talked about is. And I'm just going to put it out there just to see if anybody has any feedback. Feel free to email us podcasturedesire.org let us know. But the idea of doing a podcast, that is a separate one, like, we would still do our weekly podcast, but maybe this idea of exploring why moral failure keeps happening in the church, explore that church culture. And I think in a lot of ways this podcast will continue doing that. Looking at ways to identify what are the things inside church culture that make recovery and healing. Puts hurdles in the way. Maybe it doesn't make it difficult, but puts hurdles in the way. And how can we, as church leaders, as volunteers, as just every week churchgoers, how can we help address those cultural things and really start to move our churches in the direction of helping? And I think I would just use this opportunity to say that if you knew if 93%. Yeah, that's bad. I'll start over. Like 62 to 70% of men in the church. And 35. I would guess right now it's 35 to 40% of women in the church has some form of unwanted sexual behavior. If you knew that those same percentages of people in your church struggle with cocaine or alcohol, you would have programs for them. But if we know those statistics are true for sexual brokenness and we don't have programs for them, like, there's a gap in our ministry and our heart is to try to equip. Is to try to equip the church that they can do this, they can implement a recovery and healing process. They can have a program for people, a ministry for people. And I think a lot of times we don't know where to start as churches, and that's why we don't. But our heart is not to like, hey, let's set up pure desire at your church and just, you know, become the new thing at your church. It's, how can we equip you with the tools and the resources to create ministry in your own church? And that's really. I don't think we'll ever stop talking about that because that is our heart, to help the local church.

Yeah, yeah. And making it a conversation that people can have, because I think that's feedback we've gotten from churches of like, well, we threw groups out there and we're like, hey, if you struggle with this topic, we got a group, It's Tuesday at 7, show up here in the church. And nobody came. And so we've just decided that's not our problem here.

Right.

And for us to try to educate and equip you to say, no, the problem isn't nonexistent. It's the way it was promoted. You made that. You made the hurdle too big for people to jump over because they had to self select. I'm a struggler with sex addiction to show up at group and no one's going to show up. So if we can help change the language, make churches safe places, give people avenues to start their recovery journey, that we make that hurdle a little shorter, then more people will get engaged. And I really believe over time we're going to see those statistics change. And that's why we're here, that's why we're in this game. And that's why, honestly, why we really commit to staying in our lane. Because we do get, I'll say this, we do get a lot of requests. So you should do podcasts on this, you should make resources on that, you should make videos on this and great ideas and things. We say, yes, that's needed. But if we do that, we're starting to divert away from, we think the lane, the conversations God is calling us to. And so if you're one of those that's been let down by, well, I asked them to do this and it doesn't seem like they're that interested. It was probably a hard conversation for us to just say, I think this is going to detract from the momentum.

Right.

And we can't be all things to all people. Maybe one day we'll have space for that resource. But right now we have to stay in our lane. And so that's some of what you're seeing and hearing. And with that in mind, Trevor, let's talk about this. Our last question today. Where are we headed? What's next for Pure Desire for us as a ministry?

Yeah, I'm going to rope in Justin on this one. Justin, I'm going to need you because one of the things that we're doing is. One of the things we're doing is a website build out. And I didn't prep you beforehand. You had no idea this was coming. True story. But will you just tell people a little bit about the website build out that we're working on?

Sure.

So we face the camera. I'm just kidding.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

And we're back. Okay.

Yeah. So, you know, we looked at the data from our website. Lots of people are visiting our website every single day. The numbers have just been climbing and climbing. And what they're visiting our website for is the content. They're going to listen to the podcast, the blog, read the blog there. But more than any of that, they're there for Sexual Integrity 101. They're there for the Seven Pillars video course and digital workbooks. And so what we're working on is an overhaul where we're essentially putting a ridiculous engine into an already thriving system in order to really be able to help our content to be accessible in other countries in a better way. So internationalization. We'll be working on a more robust digital workbook platform so that people don't have to have so many browser windows open and things going on just to make.

Yeah, the navigation is simple.

Exactly. Everything will be much more simplified in order to really help people to have a much better user experience, which really results in people being able to be served further. So more scalability, more modular, easier to use all those things.

Yeah. Will you explain the code to people, too? I'm just kidding. Don't do that. Justin is obviously the right guy for this. That's why we have him over this project. But what's cool, and you touched on it, Justin, that this web build out also gives us the capability to have greater reach with translation because we have a large Spanish population that wants to use our resources, but we don't have all of our resources in Spanish. We have a team in Poland that's working on translation. We have conversations about translating into Russian. Like, I think I've even seen an email about German. Like, there are all these different languages that honestly, we don't want language to be the barrier to keep someone from healing and recovery. And again to your point, Nick, we are Pure Desire Ministries International. But right now our footprint is more local. But we want to branch that out and we want to find partners and we want to find people that are going to really release healing and freedom across the world. And so I think that's another, I think huge thing over the next few years for us is figuring out how to expand and trusting God that he will help us expand to help people. Because our country is not the only country that struggles. I mean this is a worldwide thing. And so yeah, the website build out and the translation stuff are two big ones.

Yeah, well, and if we feel like that the resources in English are limited, the resources when you get into other languages are literally non existent. And so the website, the translations will help move that forward in a lot of languages. But we recognize that won't always be us that will be finding local partners in those countries that have a burden. And so, you know, for you, our listeners would love to have you be praying with us because that's an area that won't necessarily grow the ministry financially, but in terms of influence into other countries could be exponential. And so we're looking for those partners and also looking for people that have done that kind of work before because when you start working in other countries and languages like that's, that's a skill set that we don't necessarily have. And so just looking to add to our staff in some of those areas a couple other things coming, you know, that I'm excited about. I'm, I'm thrilled with what's happening with some of the resources that this fall will have. The new Betrayal and beyond out. It'll really take that partner sensitive approach to trauma and betrayal and really help them navigate their issues without feeling like they're in any way being blamed or called a co addict or codependent or. And that was really, you know, when Ted and Diane started in the 90s, that was kind of the way the model was phrased. And as someone who's looked into that model, not to mend, to blame the spouse, but it often came out that way. And especially 20 years later, some of the approaches just we need a different approach. And the new Betrayal and Beyond will totally have that. So we're excited for that. And then we're committed to also making the unraveled for women. So women's sexuality and brokenness, having an addition to that come out for college age single women. Just like we Have Living Free for college age single men. And then of course, a project that's been in the works for a while. A second workbook for men's groups will be after that. And that's mostly authored by Dr. Ted. So excited to have more of his work out there and something that groups could use after Seven Pillars of Freedom. I would also say with that though, we're not a publishing company, so it takes us time to develop. And I know for some of the listeners it's like, well, I heard about that a year ago or two years ago, like that should be out tomorrow. And like, man, you come in here and see how publishing works. There's a lot of steps and a lot that goes into what we do. So just would ask for your prayers as we develop those resources because it does take time. I think a lot of what we're headed towards though is about creating access so that when people are ready for healing and to lean into that journey, they know where to turn, that they've heard of Pure Desire and they know how to access our resources. And so one of the things we're developing this summer is a webpage just for volunteers that want to take Pure Desire back to their church and gives them some tools to really do that well and to invite their pastors and their church to lean into that. And so if that's something you're interested in, stay tuned because that's coming out soon. Yep. Also just having the group leader training, that's still only what, a month out for us now that, that anyone anywhere in the world can learn how to run an effective, life changing Pure Desire group based around our history and our principles. And so having that and figuring out how to really help churches see that if, if you will trust us to be your, your coach in this journey, we provide all the tools and you just have to open the door and start taking people through the process of training them as leaders, using Sexual Integrity 101 launching groups. So I think helping churches feel that they can trust us and that they don't have to do the work, but they just have to create the right funnels in their context that then people can go through a healing journey. That's a major emphasis as well because I think as we've all seen during the last couple years with COVID church has changed a lot and what churches had the capacity to do changed a lot. And we're running into that even now. And I know many people in their local church, they feel like our church is just so busy or overwhelmed, they Just don't have time to start something new. But what I think a lot of pastors do have time for is a volunteer that comes and says, I have something I'm passionate about with a group that you can trust, that's reputable, and I would help lead it if you would just give the blessing. And I think that would really be appealing to a lot of churches right now that do feel overwhelmed and overstressed with just trying to navigate our world. So I believe that's an area we're really going to invest in over the next year or two, is how do we equip churches to have the groups but not feel like they have the burden of managing it all? So that's a big growth area for us as well.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, the summit is coming up in September, which I've got a little giveaway opportunity for people. Our fundraising dinner, membership group leader trip. Like, there's what's cool is. Even as we were just talking about all that, it's like, oh, wow, there's a lot of things that we're working on. But again, to what we talked about earlier, like, we're never gonna stop. Like, we're just gonna keep going. I feel like that's just so much a part of the DNA of Pure Desire. All right, so because you're joining us live and you know, listener, if you're listening to this to the day after, that's totally fine. You still count. We wanna do a giveaway as we continue doing this podcast. We want suggestions, we want feedback. And so if you go to PureDesire.org PodcastGiveaway I'm gonna have Justin put it in the chat right now. If he can Pure Desire come up.

On the screen, you know, Hard to do when we're live, huh?

It is, yes. You need to prepare. This is what's funny. If you're gonna do something live, you can't just come up with stuff right away. You have to. Oh, Justin, are you doing it right now? Okay.

He's working on it.

He's working on it. But not a dash, not a dash in the podcast. Dash giveaway. It's just one word. Podcast giveaway. PureDesire.org podcast giveaway. I've been saying that a lot. Do you want to know what it's for? If you fill one of those out, you. We're going to randomly pick a winner that'll have two free tickets to in person to the summit. If you'd like to do online, you totally can. You can use that free ticket. Those two free tickets. But we would love to have you in person. So two free tickets. We'll pull that randomly.

And you missed the best part. And two free podcast mugs.

Oh, yeah, right here.

Like, that's two mugs right here.

These podcast mugs. We'll give you a couple of those. So, you know, some people may be like, well, you guys, it's like five. Why are. You know, why. Why not five tickets? Well, okay, calm down. Two tickets to nice black screen. Love that.

Okay.

And we're back. Okay, so peers, outdoor slash podcast giveaway. And then two free tickets. We'll pull a winner. Two free tickets to Summit and two free podcast mugs that we will send you. Yeah. Anything else, Nick, as we wrap this up? I mean, this is episode 260, man. Five years.

Good job. Five years. Congrats, man.

Yeah, man. You too.

Doing good work. Keep it up. Thanks.

You too. I love this. And we will continue doing it. Absolutely. And as I say every single week, wherever you're at on this journey, Pure Desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is impacted by sexual brokenness or betrayal trauma, you can go to PureDesire.org and let's start the healing journey today. Don't forget to what? Subscribe to the podcast and leave a review because it helps people find the podcast. And lastly, say it with me.

Never stop being healthy.

All right. Congratulations, 260. Throw it.

Thanks for joining us, everybody.

Sa.