263 - Myth Busters: Self-Care Is Selfish

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma.

What is up?

I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 263 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here joining me as always, is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Da da da da da da da da da da. That's all, folks.

I'm guessing that that came from something that happens later in the episode today. Was that sparked by that?

It was a reference to that, but that is actually, you know, from my childhood Y the watching the Looney Tunes and Porky Pigs conclusion to every episode.

Which is your childhood and I guess is mine because in Space Jam, which was. Is probably one of my favorite movies of all time, I also see the Looney Tunes.

Yeah, those characters spanned quite a few decades because even, you know, in the mid-80s, I think the cartoon originated in the 60s, so it been out for quite a while.

Man, the legs on those, those shows. Nice work.

I don't even know Bugs Bunny, Corky Pig.

I mean, that's right.

The things that just live on in our memories.

Well, I'm interested to see how you tie it in today's episode description because we had Tracy Wright, who's one of our clinicians and also co authored the how to talk with your kids about sex. Her and her husband Rodney wrote that book and she came on and we tackled another myth today that self care is selfish.

Yeah. And the words we use are important. And so just being able to say that's all folks, is important. But the way that we think about self care matters and the way we define it so that we aren't just looking to escape life and avoid responsibility, but lean into those things that provide encouragement, peace, strength, so that we're able to be the kind of people we want to be in all the situations that we're called to be in, whether as parents or workers or friends or spouses, we just really want to emphasize or lift up that value of what, what do I need to be the right kind of person in all those situations? And self care is a major part of that.

Yeah. And I think today's conversation, we were able to shift a paradigm for sure from. For sure for many listeners, but then also gave really some thoughtful and practical things to help implement it. For sure. A few things before we get to it. Subscribe to the podcast. If you're not subscribed, just. Just do it. Like literally don't wait. I mean, I was just thinking about. I just subscribed to like two New podcasts this last week. It's simple. I just push one button and boom, there it is. So just do it. Give us a review. It helps other people find the podcast, especially on iTunes. We're at 439 right now. I'd like to have more than that. And follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram earedesirepdmi. If you'd like to consume video content, the full episode of this will be up on YouTube. Just search Pure Desire Ministries. And then Nick, man, it's out in the world. We're excited. And we had worked a long time to get it here. But the group leader training video course, it is in the world.

Yes. You know, Trevor, I recently got a new watch. I've noticed a new running watch. And it has all kinds of features for tracking running cardiovascular health. Honestly, about half of the features, I don't even know what they mean now. I can just kind of keep plowing through that and figuring it out my best. And the watch works. It works. But I will miss out on the full experience of what is available to me. And so at some point, I need to take the time to read some user's manuals and to probably go online and research some of this stuff so that I. I can utilize all of these features. And that's what I think about the group leader training is all of us have probably been in a small group. We kind of know the gist of, you know, guiding a conversation, bringing people back to the topic. But there are so many features to a healthy recovery group, especially as Pure Desire recommends it, that if we've not taken the time to go to the user, to go to the user's manual, if we could put it that way, to really understand some of the dynamics of the group guidelines and how to set up the group. Well, we may not be having the full experience or the kind of experience that we really could have. And so that's why I would encourage everyone to go through the group leader training to just create that knowledge base, that understanding what does a healthy, vibrant, successful group look like? And then to the best of your ability to follow what's been laid out for you. And I think it's just going to be tremendously helpful. And we're so excited to have this as an avenue to really create continuity for the way peer desire groups are run, whether it's a group meeting in person in San Diego or in Long Island, New York, that there would be a lot of similarity between the way those groups function.

Yeah. So if you want to Confidently lead life changing Pure Desire groups. Just go to PureDesire.org GLT and purchase your group leader training course. You can get this individually just a one time, or you can get this inside of a church or individual membership. Just go to PureDesire.org glt All right, here's our time with Tracy Wright talking about the myth that self care is selfish. Tracy Wright, we're excited to have you back on the podcast. Thanks for being with us.

Thank you. Good to be here.

We like Tracy. Am I right? Like, we like Rodney. He's great. But like, we, we love us some Tracy.

Well, I think we know that Tracy is kind of the, you know, the. How do I want to put this? That he's the part of Rodney that keeps Rodney in check, that keeps Rodney, you know, moving forward. We know that's Tracy like that. She brings that calm, reason, like, straightforward approach. And it's great to have you on.

Yeah, we're excited. And I mean, as a clinician with Pure Desire, we love having you on too, for your expertise. And today we're gonna tackle a myth, another one of our myths. This is obviously another mythbusters episode. And the myth today is self care is selfish. This may seem funny or even too subtle to be all that important, but you'd be surprised on how many of us carry this myth with us into recovery and healing, especially in the church. And so tr. Let's just jump right into it. What is it just. And again, this is something I think maybe that's implied or learned or whatever, but we carry it in. What about self care? Is it that makes it feel so selfish? And why do we often hear this message in our faith circles and churches?

Well, this is definitely an important topic to me. And I think part of that is I grew up kind of with that, with a belief system around being other centered, self sacrificing. And sometimes that was confusing to me of like, what does it mean to take care of me? And am I always supposed to put other people's needs ahead of myself? So I would call that a lifelong journey when you start to say, okay, what are the things that were modeled to me or taught to me and are they true? And when I say, are they true, then do they produce things that are healthy? Do they produce the gifts of the spirit? Right. They produce more love, joy, patience, gentleness, kindness in me. So I think starting with our belief system of really, what do I believe about self care? And there could be a lot of different words for self care, but I think some of the Belief systems that I look at with people are just not feeling worth it. Taking care of themselves or not being valuable. My needs don't matter. And so if we grow up that way, or if we're modeled that, or in the church, if we think, you know, I always have to put other people head. That's what Christ would do, is put other people ahead.

Yeah.

I was thinking of a song I learned really young that was J O Y. Tell you what it means, Jesus first, yourself last, others in between. Yeah, I'm like, I'm not sure that's a really, you know, a full. The full picture. Yeah, it's not that it's, you know, completely off, but I don't think it's the full picture. Because if we're always putting ourselves last, then we're not doing the love others as we love ourselves. Right. I love how that scripture says I have to love myself first to be able to give out and to love others. So really it's looking at our belief system and sometimes cracking it open a little bit and saying, is this helpful? Is this really helping me to have the kind of relationships, the kind of recovery, the kind of life that is God honoring?

Yeah. It seems like in many ways it's a misunderstanding of what Jesus said to the disciples, that in Mark 8, he said, if anyone would come after me, he must deny himself or themselves, herself must deny themselves, take up their cross and follow me. And that's a beautiful verse. And for many years I kind of thought of it as my life motto. It's all about Jesus, and it's not about me. And there's truth to that. But when we apply it to meaning, anything that's good for me, anything that's healthy, that's really a misunderstanding because I think Jesus there is calling people to lay aside selfish ambition, to lay aside power and control and building their own kingdom, because that's really what the context is about is Peter, who's trying to say, no, Jesus, your kingdom shouldn't be about you dying. It should be about taking the throne. We'll go with you. He had all these kind of dreams, I think, of this grand earthly kingdom where he was going to be a part of the power and control system. And Jesus is saying, no, you have to deny yourself. And so there's truth in that. But when we extend it to meaning, I can't have anything good for my life, for my body, then we're really misunderstanding what he meant there. And we'll probably get into this in other places in the episode. But I Also feel like it falls into a Christian category where we've really seen there's a denial of the human body, there's that divide between spiritual and physical. And we think of, well, anything that I do to feed my soul, Bible study, prayer, fasting, you know, spiritual disciplines, well, those are okay. But if it's anything that's good for my body that I would enjoy, well, that feels kind of earthly or carnal or fleshly. And it's really lacking a healthy understanding of scripture that teaches we are whole united beings. And if something truly is good for our bodies, good for our physical life, good for our mental health, that's also good for our spiritual health. It's all, you know, as our friend Rodney will so often say, it's all spiritual. It is all spiritual. If we're caring for our body in a way that leads to, like you were saying, Traci, the fruit of the spirit coming out of us, greater love, greater joy, greater patience, greater peace. And so I think we need to address the myth, honestly.

Yeah, I think a couple things that came to mind, like for me growing up, it was a fear of the perception that I was like prideful or all about myself. So was this like fear of man, fear of judgment, fear of my, maybe my reputation. But I think in a lot of ways this also is not modeled well, at least for me growing up in the church, this was not modeled well, I didn't see this modeled by my parents. I didn't see this modeled by other leaders or pastors in the church. And what I mean is I saw someone who like, for me, I felt like I grew up literally in the church building. We were always there. And again, this isn't something where I'm blaming mom and dad. I think in a lot of ways it benefited me. But what I saw ultimately knowing now is a lack of boundaries. Like it was a lack of self care margin, a lack of boundaries, just always serving other people, always sacrificing ourselves for the benefit of others and never pouring into ourselves. So again, I think a lot of us, that whole like caught and taught thing, I don't think we were, most of us anyway were taught that self care is bad. But we caught that from our caregivers or from our church leaders, whatever it may be. But I just think it's just not.

Modeled well, I agree. I think that's my perceptions too, Trevor, of being, am I going to be judged or am I judged by this other centeredness or giving or serving the most? It had to. I think there were people that challenged my paradigm over the years and helped me. That challenged and would talk to me about it, just like we're doing today. Hopefully we're helping challenge some people's paradigms of saying we're doing something because this is what we think. But it doesn't really work. It's not helpful. It doesn't really produce more of that Christ likeness in me that, that I'm desiring and that healthy, holistically healthy person in all those areas. So I definitely challenged that belief in me. And then even just looking at Christ not saying, serve me, serve me, serve me, but saying, follow me. And another scripture that I love is kind of a life scripture. Wonder why I took that on? Because I was always serving and feeling guilty about if I took my self care or set boundaries. But my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Yeah, right. So Christ saying, as a, as a teacher, as a rabbi to his followers, find rest for your souls. I'm here to help you find rest for your souls, and I'm not going to lay a heavy burden on you. Well, that's in contrast to us trying to lay that heavy burden on ourselves. Like we somehow have to prove something. We've got to serve, serve, serve other people. And my needs aren't important.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's so good. So the term or the phrase self care gets used a lot in today's culture and world. And so let's just make sure people understand what we're talking about when we say self care. Could you give some examples, Traci, of self care or even how you would define self care from kind of the perspective of pure desire and being a counselor and the ways that we're encouraging people to pursue self care.

Yeah, I think that it's like that little catchy phrase of self care is not just a bubble bath or pedicure or whatever. And I certainly think that doing nice things for ourselves is a part of self care. I heard an author one time say that it's God. Self care is God's medicine cabinet inside of us. So, like some of those healthy chemicals that we get from taking a walk, talking with a friend, being in sunshine, doing a hobby, all of those things. And I thought that was a really kind of a cool perspective of God put a medicine cabinet inside of us. And some of those things are how we cope in a healthy way. The other piece to that, though, I think is not just adding those things, but coping skills. What are my coping skills? How do I deal with life? I think self care is also a Healthy support system. So looking at what do I have around me, not just one person, but what is a healthy support system I have. And then it's not just about what I do, but also what I don't do. So self care is about boundaries. So it's about setting limits for myself. Maybe I need to set limits myself or setting limits with others. Maybe there's boundary buster people in my life that don't listen to my boundaries and how do I set those with others? So I think all of that, a lot of different things can fall under self care. And, but really it's what we talked about is holistically, how am I meeting my needs? So how am I having a strong mind, how am I having a strong body? All of those pieces are part of our self care.

Yeah. What's funny too is I think that self care, it's not always something that. Because this is something I'm learning right now in this season of life for me is I'm practicing silence and solitude for the first time and I'm finding myself not anticipating or looking forward to that time. So self care isn't always just like, oh, I'm going to go see a movie or I'm going to go golf or I'm going to go hang out with friends. Sometimes it's doing things that maybe are counterintuitive to our lifestyle or even our personality. And that's why I'm pressing into this. But I just finished a book by Ruth Haley Barton on silence and solitude. And she uses this illustration of taking a glass jar and picking out river water in it. And once you get that water in there, the water's still moving and it's violent and it's moving around and it looks just, it looks like it's all together. But once you set that jar down and the water starts to settle, you see that the sediment starts to go to the bottom and. And you see the clear water on top. And she uses this illustration to say that this is what happens when we slow down or do things that care for ourselves is it brings clarity, it shows us what's there. Things start to settle and it's calm. And you can see where the water is. You can see where some of the issues with things that's in the water are. And the same thing for our soul. Things start to come up. And so for me, that's like the fear in doing this. But at the same time I found some clarity and some perspective when I sit. And so I'm just using that as an example to Say that it might not be something where it's like, man, I just, I love walks and that's all I'm going to do for self care. Well, maybe there are some things that you might not enjoy on the front end, but you know, are overall beneficial for you. And some of those things we need to press into as well could be really helpful.

Yeah, I find it helpful too, to think of self care in kind of the medical terms of how it's different than hospital care or nurse care or doctor care, that if you're injured and in the hospital, you're being cared for by others. But there comes a point that they, you know, the nurse shows you how to change out your own bandage or how to. Your physical therapist shows you how to do these exercises at home. And we would call that self care. And so for a lot of people listening to this podcast who are in recovery because of their addiction or the wounds and harm and hurt that have come because of someone else's struggle or addiction, there is that need for self care that we can't just wait or expect everyone else to do the care for us. I mean, there are, there may have been some points when we were in triage in our relationship, or just things were really bad that people were intervening and helping. But there's the need for self care. There is the need that I am responsible to make phone calls, to interact with people and share how I'm doing, what progress I'm making on my commitment to change, the need to schedule time with a counselor because I need to get into those wounds and figure out what's driving them and causing the pain. I may need time to withdraw so I can journal or meditate or reflect on what's going on in my heart and mind. All of those are ways that I am taking steps to proactively continue my healing process. So I think in some ways, culture does throw around self care is just anything that you enjoy that's fun and it can be that too. But there's another side of self care that's also about being attentive to my needs for recovery and health and healing. Because if, just like in that medical realm, if I don't do self care at home, the wound may not heal correctly. The sickness, the disease may not run its course as quickly as it could because I'm not doing the things that I'm able to. And so I think that's an encouragement to me just to look at in my recovery process, what are the things I need to practice so that I can continue Getting healthier. And then we call that self care.

Yeah. So let's press into that. Traci, why is self care so necessary in the healing and recovery journey? What benefits does it bring?

Well, if you think of recovery equals connection, then self care piece is really about reconnecting. So that's how I think of recovery. I'm reconnecting to self. So, like, what's going on inside of me and listening to the Holy Spirit, because I use the term self or my true self when I listen to Holy Spirit, because sometimes people will think, well, the Holy Spirit doesn't talk to me. Yes, the Holy Spirit talks to you. Through quieting ourselves, like you were talking about Trevor. Through quieting ourselves, through listening through people around us. The Holy Spirit is always talking and always at work. So I think of that as when I quiet myself and I can hear what my needs are, that's really God working through me to help me find healing. So if I think of that connection not just with myself, but then also reconnection with others, and then ultimately that's reconnection with God. Right. When we're connected with ourselves and with others, we're honoring that connection with God. So I think the key to discerning between self care and selfishness a lot of times is learning to be a good listener. Though it is pulling back and it is uncomfortable. Self care can be uncomfortable. Sometimes. We want to be able to pull back and focus on our healing. And like you said, Nick, I think I. I'll share that a lot of time with women I'm working with, it's like you have to think of the wound on the inside because a wound on the outside. If I'm in the hospital, I got ran over by a truck, and I've got, you know, I picture these white bandages and my legs up in the thing, and I can't move. Am I expecting myself to continue moving at the same pace that I've made with the rest of my life, or am I having to pull back? You know, we're forced to pull back. In that case, sometimes when the wound's on the inside, we're not forced to pull back or something might happen that forces us to. Because in a lot of ways, that does happen. But if we can see it in that way, that to really have the wound fully heal, we have to pull back in some way and focus on the recovery. And recovery, again, is going to be reconnecting. So it's going to go out into all different ways in our life.

Yeah, I think of the way that we've used the phrase that pornography or unwanted sexual behavior are illegitimate ways of trying to meet legitimate needs. And so in the healing and recovery process, it's to recognize I do have legitimate needs. And so self care then is the legitimate ways that I meet those legitimate needs. So we have a real need to feel seen or valued. So in pornography or lust, we have found a very illegitimate way to feel that that has perpetuated the struggle or the addiction. So self care might be asking, what are places that I feel seen or valued that I go to to meet that very legitimate need? So that might be a night out with friends or getting together with that mentor or counselor. What are those environments? So when we practice, when we have a legitimate need to cope, when we have very strong emotions or difficult things happen, we are designed, I think, by God, to need to run to something. The question would just be, is it a healthy thing or an unhealthy thing? So we would call self care running to those healthy ways of coping, which could be a number of different things, just depending what a person has developed in their life. For self care.

Yeah, I find self care for me. I can define it a lot better when I feel like once I'm done with that activity, I'm a better version of myself or I'm in a better place, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically, whatever it may be. Like, I just got back a couple days ago from like a four day trip across the country with one of my closest friends. And to me I feel so full and so like, I feel refreshed. I feel full, like in the best ways. And so like I'm sitting here and I'm not thinking about all these other things that are going on and circling around. I'm just like, I'm calm, I'm present, I'm in a better space. And that is what, that's what is so helpful. Because when I'm at that place, my decision making is better, my communication is better, how I relate to other people is better. And so I think all of those things are a part of the recovery process. And so for me, it puts me in a healthier place to then navigate. Because we know this, we know that recovery does not mean I won't struggle and that life won't be difficult anymore. If you're healing in recovery, it's still like life is still gonna suck in a lot of ways. It's gonna be better because you have better tools. And really it's almost like a refresh of your operating system on how you navigate everything. And I think that that's what self care does for your recovery and healing. It. It helps you get to a place where you're operating out of a much better place.

I just think that's absolutely so key that addiction is an unhealthy coping mechanism and we have to replace that with healthy coping mechanisms. So sometimes I see people not understand that when I pull away from that addiction, or even when I pull away, let's say it's in betrayal and I'm policing my spouse or you know, I'm doing something, I'm bursting out in anger. When we pull away from something, we don't always see that we're still trying to meet our needs. So now how do I meet those in a healthy way? So if I can let go of that self care selfishness and realize that it's going to benefit myself, but it's also going to benefit my life and the people around me and my children and my, you know, the people that are in my world by doing that. I just think that's such a key that we don't always pick up on. It's just we're letting go of something and we're trudging along versus no, God's got a lot of things to replace that that are healthy, that bring those positive chemicals that are enjoyable. Right. And that help us to relate better to other people.

Yeah. So let's lean into that a little bit. Tracy, we're talking a lot about recovery and the needs for self care. But how does self care benefit us holistically, meaning our life outside of just recovery and those needs? How is self care good for us in our entire life?

Well, I mean, that is a part of our recovery. But if you weren't specifically looking at the addiction and the betrayal piece and you're talking about self care, it's really, I think, looking at what we value. So what do I value in life? So how do I want to create a meaningful life? So for me that's going to be meaningful relationships, purposeful work, creative or relaxing play. I think all of those pieces, if you can ask yourself that question of what do I value? What kind of life do I want to create? And obviously we can't control other people's choices. Right. So we may be in family situations, spouse situation, where they're not in a healthy place and we can't control other people's choices, but we get to build a life around what we value and we can find people and integrate those things into our life and find other people that are supportive of that healthy people. So to me, just the big picture is what do I value? And when I look, even if you can look at that, like where would I like my life to be five years from now? Or if I wasn't in the middle of this mess, whatever addiction, betrayal, whatever mess, if I wasn't in the middle of that, what would I like my life to be? Like, that's a good starting point for what do I need to change now? Like do I need to take a risk that's that double bind and then a commitment to change? What kind of risk do I have to take? Maybe the hard next right thing that I have to do.

I was having a conversation recently with a coworker where when we've gotten some healing under our belt, we find ourselves expecting the same thing from those around us. And what's funny is like there's a disappointment and there's this like pressure to feel like, no, no, no, I just want to fix the situation or fix this person. Maybe it's our family or friends we're in group with or whatever it may be. But recovery doesn't help us change other people. It gives us the tools to relate to people better. And so I think for me the biggest benefit is relationally. A phrase that I've heard recently that just keeps circulating in my head is curiosity over criticism. Just this idea of how do I be more compassionate and curious to my friends or people around me who act differently or I don't understand why they're doing or why they're saying the things that they're saying or doing. But I think it just, it's something where it equips us with the tools to again going back to it, navigate life in a healthy way. It doesn't make life easier. And so I think that again it just, it's something that helps us in relationship. It gives us the tools that we need to. I mean, manage is the best word I can think of. Manage relationship, manage life, manage anything we experience.

Yeah, the word that comes to mind for me is resilience. That if I'm practicing self care, I'm more resilient to problems that come up, difficult emotional situations. You know, if I'm at work and suddenly you get that maybe an inflammatory email. If I'm practicing self care, I am more able to respond in a way that is loving and kind and gracious versus if I've not been sleeping well, I'm making poor choices of diet, I'm not exercising, I'm just much more likely to not have resilience emotionally or relationally. And just also to lash back the illustration that comes to mind. It's like in life we all carry this backpack. And when we're not practicing self care, it's like we're loading more weight into our pack. When we lack sleep, we lack good diet and exercise and we're just carrying this heavy pack. And so if someone comes along and kind of gives us some of their problems, they're adding to the weight of our pack. And it just feels like, ugh, why are you doing this to me? And we're not in a good place to receive that. Versus when I'm practicing self care, my load is light. As you said, Traci, Jesus, words of my yoke is easy and light. The burden is not heavy. And if I've got room in my pack and you come to me with one of your issues, I'm like, sure, I can help carry that. I got room, I got space, I got margin. So when we enter into life with that emotional and relational resilience, I think we're able to see where we can contribute. And it's not just the sense of, oh, here's one more thing. Because I know when I get into that place of everything's one more thing, it's a hard place to live. And it's usually about a lack of self care.

Yeah, that's good. Okay, so some of us, you know, and again, this may be someone who's early on in the recovery journey or the healing journey, but even some of us who've been in recovery for a while still struggle with this, knowing where to start with self care. So what are ways, both of you, what are ways we can begin implementing self care into our routines?

I would start with get curious. This is like something I say to myself all the time and other people get curious. So non judgmental curiosity has become a part of my life, right. Because I can't unless I just start to ask myself the questions, then I can tell somebody, you need self care. Any one of the three of us can tell people listening today, you need self care. Right? But if we don't really believe it for ourself, we don't really understand it, then we're just going to try to do it, but we're not going to have a change or a shift. So getting curious about what I need, what do I need to be healthy? What's unhealthy in me right now? How can I get my needs met? Do I need to do things, something different myself or do I need to Ask for help from somebody else. Can I educate myself? So this podcast is a form of education. Books, support people, a counselor. Those are ways that we educate ourselves. So I think getting curious first and asking ourselves the questions and really diving into what our needs are and then along the practical lines, just a couple things. Write it in your calendar. So put it down in your calendar, whatever. Even if it's 10 minutes, 30 minutes. Because I know there's some young moms out there, because I was one who say, there's no way. I don't even go to the bathroom by myself. Well, if we can start with that 10 minute piece of like, okay, I'm just going to pick up a book and read it for 10 minutes. Sometimes that helps us rather than, well, I don't have a full day for self care. Right. But you might just say, I'm going to work it in 10 minutes every day. I'm going to do something, I'm going to read, color, put a puzzle piece in. That's what I do sometimes, leave a puzzle out, put one piece in. I feel very accomplished if I put that puzzle piece in there for my day. It just shifts my energy a little. And I felt really good over something that really wasn't that, that exciting to do. But I think you could join a group around a hobby also. Sometimes we join a group around intense work, recovery work or Bible study and we forget to join it around play. And when we're little kids, we have that joyful spirit. We're playing a lot. And so if there's something creative that you like to do or a way you like to play, then join some kind of group around that. And then another piece that I love to do is just like sticky notes around. And that could be for your affirmations too. But it all could also be to remind yourself of self care and just thinking of too. In my last group we were reminding each other of self care, like, oh, what was your self care this week? Especially for those who said, I just don't do self care, this is really foreign to me. So having support, people that remind you or that say, how are you doing with that? I know you set an intention around that. How's that going?

Another strategy you can try is just to ask yourself the question, what do I need? And for every one of us, the answer to that is different. But if we can identify what we really need, then I think starting in self care is just to ask, well, what is one thing I can do this week to meet that need? And so if someone Asks themselves that question. There is, I just need more sleep. I'm just so tired. Then thinking about, okay, what will I need to do to be able to get to bed earlier? And that might be some conversations with a spouse or family member about, hey, would you take these responsibilities so I could get up earlier or go to bed earlier, or would you be willing to do this in the morning so I could sleep a little more? I just realized how tired I am. We don't live in a bubble or a vacuum. So our choices do impact other people. And that's maybe why a lot of people don't practice enough self care. Because it's like, oh well, my spouse wouldn't want me to do that or my kids wouldn't allow for. And the truth is a lot of those are reservations or limits I think we put on ourselves where if we asked in a kind, appropriate way, I believe most people really want to help us get what we need. And so if I were to go to a spouse and say, I just really feel like I need some fresh air, I am in this house all day with these kids. Could when you come home at 5 o', clock, would it be okay if I took 30 minutes just to go walk or run? And for some people, that's not their need. So that's where I think we have to be careful in giving people advice of what you should do for self care. Start with what's your need and then figure out how to ask for it in just one way. One way this week that I could get. Is it more margin, more sleep, more exercise? Do I need more friends? What is my need? And then do one thing to move in the direction of that need.

Yeah, a practical thing and then more of a philosophical thing for me I think a practical thing to your point, Tracy, of like just schedule it. I think it would also be okay to maybe schedule like pockets throughout your day where it's five minutes here, 10 minutes there if it's possible. You know, like for us, we go, especially when it's nice here, we go on walks, you know, we'll do a one or two lap walk and that's great. Like it's 15 minutes, 20 minutes, you know, and we come back in and it's good, you know. Did something magnificent or life altering happen on the walk? No, but it's something where we do it multiple times a day and I find myself looking forward to it. And when I get back I'm in a better mood. And then the philosophical thing for me is asking the question, what are Things that push me into deeper relationship with God, with myself or with other people. And I think that self care is something that does that. Again, for me, it's movies, journaling, you know, hobbies, definitely, but finding ways that help me push deeper into relationship. Because again, the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it's connection. And so how do I facilitate those things? And again, self care, the one that tends to get. I think the one that tends to get overlooked is deeper relationship with myself. It's easy to think of God and think of other people, but what's a way for me to become more curious or more compassionate or explore what's going on under the surface for me? So I think that's the philosophical thing. How do I find things that push me into deeper relationship with God, with others and with myself?

If I'm trying to make a habit out of it, right, then I want some repetition. So sometimes I'll really challenge people. Just try it, try it for a week, try it for three weeks. And that helps it be a little less scary because it's not like, oh, I'm not gonna be able to do that if it's something new. So if you schedule that, even if you said, I'm gonna do one self care item, it doesn't have to be the same thing every day for 21 days. Right. It becomes more of a habit. Easier to remember that that's a part of our life. Making it a part of our life totally.

So we've started to get into some practical ideas here, Traci. And when we do, our brain begins to think through the scenarios of, well, okay, then I'm going to have to ask my spouse to do this or my family or my friends or my. At work, I'm going to have to ask for permission for something. And that can be a barrier for a lot of people. So how do we handle people not understanding or pushing back on our need or requests for self care?

Yeah, that can be really scary for people sometimes to take that step. And sometimes they're getting that need met by pleasing others. And so this means people are going to be disappointed in me. And that's really hard for people sometimes. Or we're okay with setting it, but then we feel a lot of guilt around it. Now I have to carry around all this guilt because I set the boundary. So again, I think once we've worked through our belief system of, yeah, this is, this is really good for me and it's really good for other people, then it's practicing it. So I'm doing something that's a little uncomfortable, and I'm going to need to practice that. And when it makes somebody else uncomfortable now what do I do with that? So we can say, is it done in love? I think that's really important. Did I do it in love? Sometimes I have to weigh that because my boundary might be like, oh, I feel like I'm not going to do this in love because I'm overwhelmed or something. But am I able to do that in love? Set the boundary and then if they're not comfortable with it, be there for them in another way. I call it wrapping around in love. That's why I always do this, because I call it wrapping around the person left. Set a boundary and then be there for them in another way because they may be disappointed in that boundary that I set. But I can still affirm that I still care about the relationship by doing that in a different way. And sometimes I think too, it's discerning if the pushback is legitimate. So sometimes in our relationship with another spouse, I think of, for instance, a lot of couples with young kids. Both of them are tired, both of them are either working or staying home with the kids, and both need their needs met. And a lot of times they're trying to get it met from the other person who's also exhausted. That's a time where it's legitimate that maybe it's hard to get that need met. Or if someone, let's say one person in the family is constantly volunteering and they're constantly doing stuff and the other person isn't so much, I think that's a time where we can talk about it. So I would just say let's communicate about it. Let's see if compromises need to be made. And let's see also if how both of us can get our needs met.

Yeah.

So hopefully, if we're becoming healthy people, it's not just about, you know, I'm not getting selfish by doing this. I'm still listening to other people's needs, but I'm trying to see how can we both. How can both of our needs met, especially when we're talking about our spouses.

Right, Totally. I think communicating personal benefit and the need for it is important. I mean, I think sometimes it's easy to just like, well, I'm going to go, you know, and you don't even talk about why. And so people push in and ask, or, you know, maybe they don't understand, like, and again, it's not your responsibility to convince this person that you need self care, but it is your responsibility to when there maybe is tension in that relationship to communicate. Well, here's why I believe that I need this for myself. And if you can just sit down and be like, if my wife came to me and was like, look, I've been at home with the boys all day and I'm exhausted. Can I go downstairs and just. Cause she's a puzzle person. Can I go downstairs and do a puzzle for 15 minutes? I'm not gonna be like, no, what are you talking about? You're fine. If she has communicated where she's at, what her needs are and that this is something that can help surfer, I'm in a much better place to receive that and understand that now. Could people still respond negatively to that? Well, of course they can. But I think that still being willing to just acknowledge I need, I have a need here, self care is gonna help me meet that need. And when I come back, I'm gonna be in a better place. I think that that can go a really long way with people who might not understand.

Yeah, it's so true. Because if you think about it, we all want the best version of each other. Totally, totally. Like our spouses, our kids, our co workers. Like, we don't want the grumpy, tired, critical, cynical version of people because that's not fun for anybody and it just makes life harder. And so if we can communicate that, why that here's how this will help me. And I believe I will be a better spouse to you. I'll be a better friend to you. I'll be a better parent to our kids. It will help me re. Engage with greater health and energy and joy. It's like, well, yeah, that's worth it. There's an exchange there. And at the end of the day, as humans, I think many of us work on kind of that like, what's in it for me? We don't like to think that way, but we're kind of in our fallen nature wired a little bit for like, what will I get out of this? And if I realize, like, oh, I may get a much healthier, happier spouse, well, hey, let's try that. That sounds good to me too. And that's the word I was thinking about in this when we're getting pushback is look for opportunities for there to be anyway. For there to be back and forth.

Reciprocity.

Yeah, I just totally got stuck on that word. I felt like Elmer Fuddy going to go out.

We're leaving all of this in. This is so good.

But that idea of if you approach it, saying, hey, just to your example, Traci, we're both, I think in a season where our lives, our kids, the house, it's a lot. We feel tired and overwhelmed. And what would help you get a break from that? And maybe saying, what if once a week or every other week you have a night out to go with your friends or with your brother, you guys go do something. And then every other week, then one it's, then I take a night so we both get a break. And I think if we can approach it that way of hey, what do you need? What do I need? Recognizing we all have needs and we have that attitude that says I'm here to support your needs. And oh, by the way, I also have some too, we may get better response than if we just throw up that, well, hey, I'm going to the gym every morning at 6am Hope you and the kids are okay. It's like it just, we're just dumping our weight or burden on someone else and that's, yeah. Typically not going to be received well.

Yeah.

And if you don't have that supportive person or you're a single parent, that again, how healthy is our support system? Do we have people around us that we're bouncing those things off of and that are helping us and that are even honest with us to help us find the right balance between selfish and self care?

Totally. Okay, so we've already, I think even in that this last question, we've touched on this a little bit, but perhaps the reason this myth exists is that people have used self care as a kind of excuse to maybe avoid responsibility or hard situations. So just straight up, does self care become selfish at any point and can we actually take it too far?

Well, I would say I'm going to throw out there that all of us are selfish sometimes. I don't know anybody who isn't selfish sometimes. I mean, we're wired.

Trigger warning.

Yeah, we're wired to get our needs met. So again, even when we look unselfish, sometimes we're meeting a need for pleasing others or finding my worth. So if you look at that need, and I liked what Nick said, right. When we're getting that need met by in healthy ways, then we're bringing out the best in other people and our needs are being met or we're our healthy version and we're meeting the needs of others. So if you kind of think of it that way, yes, we are, all of us are unhealthy sometimes. All of us are Selfish sometimes. We live in a pretty selfish culture in a lot of ways, but yet we still manage to either beat ourselves up or deny ourselves sometimes of that need for self care. So hopefully when we've talked today, we've helped people look at it more balanced, not have that really black and white view, but be able to hold both of those things of like, I need to be able to meet my needs and I also need to be healthy enough to be aware of how I affect the relationships around me.

Yeah, you quoted Jesus earlier when you said, you know, we need to love others as we love ourselves. And so built into that is, yes, I need to have love for myself, but also act in a loving way towards others. And so that's where if my self care is being done in a way that's just oblivious to the way it's impacting my family, my spouse, people around me, it's like, well, hey, I'm getting what I need, well then I'm just loving myself. And if there's no eye towards am I loving others, well then I think it can just become a selfish act. The other thing that comes to mind for me is if we start to use it as an excuse for indulgences we don't truly need for self care. We've just put the self care label on it and it means every night we're drinking too much or we're abandoning responsibilities with our kids because we just have to be out with our friends for quote unquote self care. If we're just using it in that vein to kind of do what I want, when I want, then I think we have to look in the mirror and be honest, say, am I really meeting those deep needs or am I just looking for a way to kind of blow off responsibilities and do what I want? Because then it is, it is a form of selfishness.

An example for me, I was just getting into the Harry Potter books we were living at my in laws. Our oldest was maybe, I don't know, six months a year old. And I got to the point where self care was reading Harry Potter. And I mean like everyone who's read Harry Potter is like, yes and amen, right? But what I found myself doing was disappearing into our room to read. And it was something that was helpful for me. But after maybe like three or four times that happened, Amy came up to me and was like, where are you disappearing to? What's happening? And what I realized is I wasn't communicating what I was doing. I was pulling away and calling it self care. Which maybe it was, but it was at the cost of not communicating it to my wife or putting her out or disappearing from the responsibilities that I had. And so for me, self care in that situation definitely became selfish. It wasn't something where I was checking in and making sure, hey, is this okay that I'm doing this? When would be a good time for me to do this? How can we make sure you're getting your time? So if it's just a, like I'm disappearing to go do it, that's not helpful. And it's funny, I've actually talked about this on the podcast before that when I check in and I'm like, hey, is this okay if I go do this? It was never like, no, that's dumb. Why are you doing it? It was always like, sure, that's fine, thanks for letting me know. And then it is no longer selfish and becomes something that is helpful for me and not putting other people out. So I think that example might help people a little bit understand it.

Self awareness is a really key word there. And so I probably would recommend the first self care we take care of is do I pause sometime in my day to check in with what's going on in me and around me? Because that's just letting our brain go offline, right? Dissociating, not really being in tune with what's going on around me. And so if my first mode of self care is some sort of stop and reflect, whether it's a morning time, a pause, a prayer of meditation, or sometime during the day that I do that, I would say that would benefit you the most because out of that discerning spirit, out of listening, I'm able to actually see what the needs are around me. So if I want to be a healthy person, I'm going to not just need to say, here's the list of all the things that makes me feel better. But I'm a connected person in my relationships and in myself. And then I'm more discerning. So if I really want to be healthy, I think that's the piece because I might say, oh, I need a nap, but I need a nap because I've been binge watching Netflix every night, right? So that's not actually there might be something I need to change versus, hey, I need a nap for my self care or whatever. So. And when I like to think of the word sin as just meaning missing the mark. So when I say, oh, I missed the mark, I always have the opportunity to make adjustments. And rather than it just being this big word. Am I sinning? Am I, you know, I'm, I'm looking at no, I'm missing the mark. And there's a lot of different ways we miss the mark. Right. In our lives. Yep. And we can make course adjustments. We know that from recovery. So we can do this with self care any area of our life. We get the opportunity, tune in and make an adjustment to what needs to happen.

Yep.

Yeah. I think what you're bringing up there, Tracy, is that sometimes the same activity can be selfish or self care. So for me, you know, listeners of the podcast know running for me would be one of those activities. It's like hitting the great reset button in my life emotionally, mentally, relationally. But if I were to run every afternoon at 4:30pm I think it would be intensely selfish because I'd be saying to my wife, dinner's on you. Picking up and running around kids is on you. All those things that happen in that it's all on you. Because I need to go do self care and that would seem selfish versus for me in my life right now, running means I either need to do it early, before the day starts or at the end of the day when all that stuff is done. And for other people, your home life situation may be totally different. And 4:30 works for you. So that's not what I'm saying. I'm just making the point that the same activity done without self awareness, without thoughtfulness of others can be selfish or self care. And so it's just taking that time to think and be aware of how is this impacting others? What's the right timing for it? And at the end of the day, does it benefit not only me but also the people around me, which I.

Think is what self care ultimately does. It helps me identify what makes me better and others as well around me. Yeah, that's good.

Well Tracy, this has been so helpful. I hope our listeners have tons of thoughts and ideas about how they're gonna practice more self care. And so as we look wrap up today, just what are some final tips that we'd give people on implementing self care into their lives?

Well, I think for each person they're going to want to think about what resonated for them and where. Maybe they need to be courageous or they need to take a next step. For some people that'll be a difficult decision and for other people it'll just maybe be creating a new pattern. So I think finding what that is and then always I like to think of it as like stick your toe in the water. Right. You don't have to dive in. If this is difficult, stick your toe in the water and you can gradually move into that. But everybody's going to have to assess like where, where they're at. You know, if they're, if they're listening and that's important to them, they're going to assess today where they're at and maybe what kind of courage I need for the next step I need to take.

Yeah, I mean, I just wrote down start small and be realistic. You know, start small. So dip your toe. Don't just dive in. Like, well, I'm going to go. If you're not a runner, you're like, well, I'm going to run three hours a day. It's like, okay, you're going to kill yourself, you know, or end up in the hospital. And that's selfish. Cause that hurts your entire family. Don't do that. But also be realistic, like, where are the pockets in your day that you can fit them in? For me, having a 10 to 20 minute walk two times a day, I can fit that into the schedule. Even last week I had a meeting here at the office where it was a 50 minute meeting and we just walked, we walked the entire time. And it was something where that meeting could fit that context. So I was mixing a little bit of self care with work at the same time and so finding ways to maybe. And I've used this illustration too for like phone calls for group. Like I have time in my car, 25 minutes a day on either end where I can do phone calls. Find those pockets where you can fill that time with self care. And there may be sacrifices like, well, I can't binge on Netflix or I can't play that video game or do blah, blah, blah, whatever it may be, but just find those pockets and be realistic in how you can fit self care in your schedule.

Yeah. In response to what you both said, I was thinking of the quote that don't let all the things you cannot do keep you from the things you can do. And I think with self care, we all maybe have an image of what it could look like. The person we follow on Twitter or Instagram. That for pastors, takes that two month sabbatical every summer and goes to England and studies at Cambridge and writes a book. And it's like their self care and we're like, holy cow, I can barely get a week off. And so we get so discouraged by this image or this perfect life that we just can't reach, that we do nothing so instead it's just like you guys said, where can I start? What can I do? What are those little step that I can take? And then, you know, build off of that, find what works, find what doesn't work. And the other thing I'd say is final encouragement is just to remember that your self care and my self care might be totally different activities. And I think especially in coupleship, we can struggle with that of, you know, maybe last night we had couples over and we had this great game night and one spouse feeling like that was amazing, and the other spouse is saying, I'm exhausted, I need a vacation. You know, so for, for one, it was self care, for the other, it was a lot. They may have still both enjoyed it, but the one, it filled them with life and energy, and the other, they just need like a day by themselves, not have to do anything. And so if we're aware that what I need and what you need might be totally different, then I think we can have the openness to others to say, how can I help support your needs, just as you're supportive of mine. And being aware of that is, I think, really important.

Yeah, that's huge. Okay, so it's clear the myth that self care is selfish. It's a myth. It's like, you know, results are in. Self care is very, very important. And we do definitely hope that this conversation helped give you, as Traci said, toward the top, that shift in the paradigm that you're able to see that self care is something that's super beneficial, not just for you, but for other people. And the irony in that is that us sacrificing self care to serve others, quote unquote, sometimes actually does more damage to other people. And so we hope that this conversation has helped you, given you some practical tools and thoughts to move forward. And Tracy, look, we said at the top, we love you. We are big fans of you. And honestly too, just recognition that every single week, every single day, you sit in the trenches with men and women who are in this journey. We appreciate you for doing that, appreciate the work. And we know that self care is absolutely a part of your rhythm because that is not an easy job. So thanks for what you do and thanks for being with us today.

Absolutely. Thank you.

And wherever you're at on your journey, pure desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is impacted by sexual brokenness or betrayal trauma, go to PureDesire.org and start the healing journey today. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Each week we put out new content to help you on the road to healing and freedom. And lastly, never stop being helpful.

Sam.