269 - Going ALL IN For Recovery & Healing

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma.

Hello. Hello.

I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 269 of the Pure Desire Podcast. You're joining me, as always, is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

I'm debt free.

That's right. That's right. Listen, I don't think you knew this when you decided to use this. I'm still bitter at Dave Ramsey because we DMed him. We emailed him, we called them, we, I don't know, emailed them. We mail mailed them.

Let us on, man.

Let us on.

We paid off.

We're paid $103,000 in two and a half years, Dave. And I wasn't on your show. I wasn't at your place in Nashville. Dave, Dave, you have helped my family incredibly and set me up for generations. However, I'm still upset at you.

All right, sorry. Understandable, man.

Go ahead.

I feel like I really kind of poked a nerve there. I didn't mean to. What I was more trying to.

I know there's blood all over the man.

Is the way that when someone is following the Dave Ramsey approach to finances, it really requires that they go all in, that they follow the steps, they commit to it, they get the debt snowball going, they pay off the stuff, they get the income they need and start moving in that direction.

And.

And that is exactly what we talked about today, is how do we do that when it comes to recovery and.

Healing and inflation hits, and then you start getting stressed and then you overeat. Okay. So we do have definitely a good episode. We talked about really what the summit is all about, which is going all in, that idea. And it really is. And I love that you use Dave Ramsey because it really, in so many ways, I love what they're doing. They're helping people with something that a lot of people don't think is, like, primary in their relationship with the Lord and in their development, but it really is. It has tons of impact. And we know that that's true about our sexuality as well. But we, you and I just sat down here, just the two of us. We didn't have to have a guest. We carry the episode by ourself. And we talked about really, what does it look like to go all in? We talked about what the summit will cover and really our encouragements for why we want people to come to the summit every year.

Yeah. And, you know, if you take the financial peace class, they talk about it, that it's a lifestyle change. It's a way of doing life that leads to that financial future that you want. And that's what we're saying as well about recovery, about healing, that it's a lifestyle. It's not just learn a couple of tools or apply these couple of little side principles and you'll be fine. It's like, no, there's a way you do life that will either lead you into healing and recovery or into struggle and addiction and a lot of regret. And so I think at the summit, we have a chance to talk about it. But even if you're not planning to come to the summit, you don't think it's going to work for you this year. I think in this episode, there is just so much that challenges us to think about what is my level of commitment and whether I'm in year one or year ten, what does it look like to be all in in this journey? And then hopefully by the end, if you're not planning to come, maybe you'll reconsider because you could be watching online next week when we do the summit, and we'd love to have you be a part of it, but wanted to throw that in that some people are going to listen to this episode two years down the road as they're making their way through the plethora of Pure Desire podcasts. That's right. And they're gonna go, what? This one's just about the summit. I think I'll just skip it. Before you skip it, keep this in mind that this is an episode for all of us to be challenged on. How can my commitment level being all in be a big part of the healing and transforming work that God wants to do in my life?

Absolutely. Before we get to that, just a few things. Subscribe to the podcast. We're on all the major platforms. You can also follow us on social media, uredesirepdmi, Facebook, Twitter, Twitter, Instagram. We're also on LinkedIn. Don't judge us. We're not on there all the time. You can also find the full episode video of this up on YouTube. Just search Pure Desire Ministries. And then obviously it makes total sense. We just want to talk about the summit a little bit more here. We want to let people know that this episode is releasing two weeks before it really does happen. So we are going to have this huge event, Troutdale, Oregon. You can register online, in person, watch parties, host sites, and we really want people to just come to the summit and take that next step for them. Being all in.

Yeah. And if you are listening to this too late. It's still gonna be on our website. We make it a product that you can get access to later and have a lot of the sessions we talk about in this podcast. They'll still be up on our website if you want access to them, so keep that in mind. But, yeah, obviously, the point of this episode, there's something here that we think is of value, and our concern is that others might go, ah, that's just this little thing they do. It was like, no, this is a big rally point. And if you consider yourself a fan of what PD does because it's touched your life, someone you care about, the church that you lead, we just say, gather with us because we think it's going to do something in your heart and mind. And if you can find a way to bring people with you, those that are in your group, those that have been a part of your journey, I think they'll be encouraged as well. And we're just looking forward to a great time together.

Yep. So you can go to PureDesire.orgSummit and register today. And with that, here's our conversation on going all in for recovery and healing. Nick, it is just us today. Just you and me. That's it. Can we. Can we do this? Can we carry an episode?

It's quiet in here. I think we've gotten so used to having guests. Although if you think back to our early days, we did a lot of episodes probably in the first 20 or so that were just you and I. But that is true. Yeah. It's now more uncommon.

I think it was probably when Harry was, like, hitting the table a bunch.

Like, okay, an episode eight.

We're like, all right, we gotta dial this back.

Okay.

So, yeah, just you and me. But we wanted to talk with the Pure Desire summit that's coming in a little over two weeks. Not even. It's not even two weeks.

We're.

It's close. We're 9-16-17. And the theme of the event being all in. We wanted to have, really, a conversation about what that looks like, what does it actually mean to be all in, and then get a little bit into what people can expect from the summit. And so kind of getting into the conversation, you know, especially with the theme being all in, it's kind of easy. The artwork, too. People jumping into the water, you know, like cliff diving. But really, what does that mean when we're all in for recovery and healing?

Yeah. I think the theme kind of captured our imaginations because there are many decisions in life that we come to that are like that. We can't be one foot in, one foot out. You think about getting engaged, someone making that commitment to marriage, you can't partially commit to marriage. You're either gonna do it.

You can. It's just not gonna last.

Well, exactly. And everyone would look at that situation and go, man, if you're only halfway committed, it's gonna be a challenge from the get go. Or, you know, accepting a new job or moving to a new city. Like, you don't do that halfway. Because everyone would look at those and say, if you only do that halfway, the results you get are just not gonna work. And it's. It won't be the fault of whatever it is you were considering. It'll be that you didn't give it the effort or the attention it needed to be successful. And I think that's what we see as we talk about, you know, men who are trying to recover from unwanted sexual behaviors and acting out with pornography, or women that have that struggle. And even on the betrayal side, for women who've been betrayed by a spouse and men who felt that if we look at our healing from betrayal or our recovery from unwanted sexual behavior to be something of like, I can make this. Just give it a marginalized effort. I can just tiptoe in a little bit. And I'm not saying, especially on that betrayal side, that any spouse should be required to do something they're not comfortable with. We're talking more of a maybe a mental emotional state of mind that says, what am I willing to. To do to pay attention to my healing? What am I willing to do to get better? And if I'm only gonna go halfway in, it probably won't work, and it won't be the fault of whatever recovery program we use, Whether it's pure desire or something else, it will be that lack of effort. And so that's the visual we get of this person jumping off the cliff of like, all right, I'm in. And if it means going to group every week, I'm in. If it means doing all my homework, I'm in. If it means making phone calls, I'm in. If it means, you know, scheduling time out of my workday to get to that counseling session with my spouse, I'm in. Because I've said I am all in on recovery. And we have just found that recovery happens best, you know, to use the tagline when we're all in, because if we're reserved, that part of us that is reserved will probably be the thing that continues to Cause us to stumble and not make the progress that we really want to make.

Yeah, I think of. Because we've talked about this on a number of different conversations, I even think of, you know, conversations we've had with people on the podcast, people we've had at events that, you know, people who are struggling or maybe caught up in recovery or healing. One of the questions that comes to mind for me is, are you doing everything that's absolutely necessary for you to actually get the healing that you want? Like, you know, even last episode we had, you know, Chris from Techless, this great option for someone who, you know, is looking for digital health that is looking for maybe a way that pornography can't be accessed via their smartphone. Those are some of the steps where we start to think, okay, I'm doing stuff that's absolutely necessary. But for a lot of people, I know, for me, I've been writing some of this. I'm speaking one of the breakouts at the summit. And so this is kind of fresh on my mind, talking about my healing journey, and then also even my weight loss journey. Those two things. I had to be all in, because once you kind of get that little taste of health, there's this tendency to want to kind of go back. It's like, well, now that I'm sexually healthy, like, maybe I can watch Game of Thrones. Maybe I can start to peruse a little bit on social media, I'm fine. I've done the work. That kind of thing. That's not living all in. It's not only jumping in completely, but also being willing to stay in it and maintain it over time. And for me, that's like, I don't know. That seems to be this hinge point for a lot of people, especially for people who are in recovery.

Yeah. If anyone's seen our video series Sexual Integrity 101, or I think it's even in the trailer where a good friend of ours, Dan Howard, he says, I tried everything to get better. And then he pauses and stops himself and says, well, actually, I hadn't done anything. I had done everything I could on my own. And that's, I think, a reality for so many of us. You know, what you brought up, like, have I done everything I can? There's a part of us that feels like, yeah, I've tried all that. You know, I've read the books and got software. It's like. But the harder things, like engaging with a group and going to counseling with my spouse, like, well, no, I haven't done that, because that Feels too hard. And there are those places we can come up against to saying, well, I haven't really gone all in. And maybe part of the reason I'm still stuck in an unwanted pattern or my relationship hasn't grown to the place that I hoped it would is because there's part of me that's still holding back.

Absolutely.

And so that leads us into the next question. What keeps us from going all in on our recovery or healing journey?

Yeah, I think a couple of things immediately come to mind. The first is those failed attempts that we've had that we feel discouraged, that we've tried accountability groups. We've tried going to counseling. We've tried, you know, turning off the Internet and not using it. We've tried not watching movies, whatever it may be. We've tried, you know, scheduling date nights, whatever it may be. There seems to be this failure after failure after failure, and it's like, okay, I'm just tired of failing. I don't want to do it anymore. And I think a lot of that can be rooted in the second thing, which is just fear. Like, going all in is really, really scary. And I think about, you know, the artwork in general, the idea of, like, jumping in, like, cliff diving. I've been cliff diving before, and it's not. If you've never done it before, it's freaking terrifying.

And I like fear of height, so that makes it worse. It's just, like, double. Yeah, right?

It's so, like, you know, you don't know what's in the water. You can't see from up there. You've never done this before. Is the water warm? Is it cold? Like. And I can tell you I had an experience where I did. It was one of the first times I'd ever done it. And I can't remember how high it was, but I remember jumping into the water, and it was so cold, Like, I basically went into shock. Like, I couldn't move my body. And, like, I had to have a friend help me. I couldn't. I could barely stay afloat. There's that fear of, if I jump in, will I drown? Like, will this actually not work? Will it not pan out the way that I thought? Will all this be for a waste? Does this even work? There's all these fears. Like, even, you know, you think about people, even on the betrayed side and the recovery side, will this work? Restore my marriage? I don't know. And so it's. I'm afraid. And then there's, like, the financial component, too. Like, am I wasting money? Am I wasting time? So I think those are the two big things. It's just failed attempts and fear.

Yeah, I know in my own story, that was a big struggle of wanting to figure out what's the minimum effort I can make and still have this work. Right. And so it was discouraging to have a counselor say, you know, if this isn't your top shelf priority, it's probably not going to work. And having that, you know, testimony kind of reinforced by others was really helpful. And as I look back at why I was hesitant in my story, I think it's realizing that if I acknowledged this is the level of help I need, it was also acknowledging how big of a problem this was. And I was spending so much time trying to rationalize and minimize it, just to feel okay about myself and to convince my wife in particular that, hey, things are okay and they're gonna get better, because I wanted to believe it was true. But if I were to go all in on going to group and counseling, it involved acknowledging I have an addiction, I have a problem that I can't solve by myself. And so that just was really intimidating. And yet on the flip side of it would say, when I got to that point of, you know, because I was at 10 years of unsuccessful attempts and my marriage was going from bad to worse, and I felt like we were on the brink of losing it all, and it's like, what have I got left? Right? Like, what am I holding on to? Because I could hold on to my pride of like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. And if so, I could see, probably a matter of months down the road I was going to lose it all. And so I was at that point of saying, you know, why. Why am I waiting if. If this could work, and people are telling me this works, it could save your marriage, it could change your life. Yeah, why wouldn't I go for it? And so I kind of had to come to that point, like the guy leaping off the cliff that just says, I'm out of excuses, I'm out of reasons not to. And I think that's our encouragement as people listen, that maybe in your story, you're at a place where you think you're managing it, and you've only listened to our podcast, but you've never taken that step into groups or into counseling. Like, no, no, I'm fine. And yet you can look back on a track record of you're still acting out or relapsing every couple of months, or you're still stuck in Those same old patterns. That's the reality that because you're not all in, you're going to continue to face a lot of those same challenges. And so while it's super intimidating, it can be hard to acknowledge the level of our struggle. It's actually what leads to freedom and a breakthrough.

Yeah, And I think this is a good point too, to encourage maybe anybody who's listening who has been in recovery for a little bit. Your story has a lot of power here where like you and I can sit here and say that this stuff works, that recovery actually works and that our families are in different places and are restored and our marriages are healthy because we've done the program, because we've done the work. And it, you know, when you say that that is a key for so many people to unlock that fear, maybe, and their willingness to jump in. So when we talk about all in, that's kind of this nice, cool, clean philosophy. You know, it's almost like this aerial thing or whatever. But what are some practical examples of going all in and really what kind of outcomes do those lead to? And maybe you can speak from your own experience or just from what you know about recovery.

Yeah, yeah. You know, I think in my own story and for hundreds and hundreds of others that I've heard now, it is that couple that goes to counseling and has the evaluation that says doing a 12 month treatment program would be good for you and being willing to sign on the dotted line and say, okay, we're in, we're going to do what takes. And so, you know, if you've got a spouse sitting there saying, I think we need this, and you've got a counselor sitting there saying, I think you need this, based on my professional opinion, you go all in. And that may be maybe a more extreme example, but I even think it's the man or a woman who commits to going to group every week and saying this outside of family emergencies and personal sickness, this is my priority. And that means I may have to miss kids activities for a season that I may need to say no to, going out with friends, I may need to, you know, come back from a trip early. I'm going to do whatever it takes to not miss group. And it's one of those things we've talked about on this podcast so many times. Like when you make that level of commitment, it's amazing how the commitment works versus if every couple of weeks there's, well, it's a busy night or the kid's out of homework project. I had to help with Them, and they may be totally legitimate reasons, but it's a way of saying, this isn't my top priority. My healing, my recovery is not my top priority right now. And if, hey, if that's the case, that's where you're at, it may be best just to acknowledge that, to say that to someone, because you're not going to get as far. But if you're saying, no, this is going to be come hell or high water, I'm going to group. It does something for you. So I think of that. I think of the commitment. One of the things that's encouraged in our material is just to ask the question, how could you make this a daily thing? Something that every day you're doing a little bit of work, whether that's in your devotions, what book you're reading, getting some homework done, making a phone call. That rhythm, and I would even call it a discipline. That discipline of doing your recovery, I think is a big part of what heals you because your brain is having that repeated experience of what we need for health, being transformed by the renewing of our mind and not just counting on, well, I go to group once a week and over time I hope I'm going to get better. When it's every day, I think that's part of keeping it fresh in our own minds. And then it is, we're all in. Like, this is what I'm working on every day. Especially when you're in that initial season of healing and recovery, Totally.

A couple of things that came to mind were the full disclosure. That process is very practical way of going all in. You are laying it all out on the table. You're being completely honest. I've talked, I've heard you talk about it. With you and Michelle, the idea of wanting to know where the bottom was, that those were her words, she wanted to know, like, do I actually know everything? So that is very much. And that often feels like jumping off of a cliff because you don't really know what's at the bottom for sure. You know, another thought is really just because you talked about committing to the weekly process. But I think the idea too is staying all in, maintaining that, you know, as new. I've had some conversations even recently, some people emailing in, asking about, like, what. What do we do after group the first time or the second time? And that idea of like, well, second time, third time through, you really start to see those layers of that onion come out. And it's like, okay, when I became a dad, things got different in recovery. Things changed. My relationship with my wife changed, my relationship with my kid changed, my relationship with myself, with the Lord, all these things change. So understanding that recovery can be dynamic in that way. But then something I would just say, for me, staying all in right now is really evaluating what are other disciplines and practices in different domains of my life that contribute to my sexual health or contribute to my relational health. Thinking about what you eat, exercise, what are things you're doing for emotional and mental health, journaling for me, going to see a movie, things like that. So really thinking through what are ways. Because once we get into recovery, we learn that there's so many things that contribute to that addiction. It's not just, I like these images of these people and masturbating feels good. That's not just it. It's thinking about what are motivating those things. And so finding out where those wounds are, and then really finding habits and practices and rhythms we're putting in place that help bring healing to those areas. And so I think that's also a part of being all in.

Yeah. I think of it as the difference between the example we've talked about, like being in physical therapy or developing that healthy new normal. And so in your first year or two, you may be taking an intensity to that approach of your recovery because you're trying to create a new normal.

Totally.

So you're doing things you don't have to do for the rest of your life, but in order to get healthy, to stop relapsing, to stop the pattern of pain, to stop the patterns of unhealth in the relationship, like there's some maybe really heavy lifting you have to do, particularly in year one and year two. But that doesn't mean, like you said, that at the end of year two, then it's like, all right, well, I'm done with all that.

You don't graduate.

Yeah. In my own story, I've had a number of running injuries, as many people know, and so I've had to do physical therapy, and they will teach me new stretches. A couple years ago, my physical therapist worked with me on a new way of running, a new form that has me striking more mid foot rather than on my heel. And for those that are runners, you'll understand that language. And I made all these adjustments, even down to the kind of shoes I was wearing, in order to stay healthy. And now many of those practices have become my new normal. So I don't have to do the amount of stretching and training exercises that I did for those several months. But if I were to go back to a different type of running shoe, a different running style, stop stretching. I'm probably gonna re injure myself because if those things don't become my new normal, I won't stay healthy. So when I hear you talking about staying all in, I think that's what we're gearing up for, is how do I create that new normal and then stay in it. Because if I think I'm quote unquote healed and just revert back to a lot of my old rhythms, I'm going to end up with a lot of my old outcomes. And we don't want to go there. So that's why staying all in is so important.

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So on the flip side, if those are some examples of what it looks like to be all in, what are some examples we've seen or maybe experienced ourselves of not going all in?

Yeah.

And what kind of outcomes does that tend to lead to in someone's life?

Yeah, I think of like. So a couple different things immediately came to mind. Were like doing the same habits that you were doing before. So if you know. Because once I know, for me, once I got into recovery, I learned that there was a pattern. I learned that I would get triggered by something emotionally and then I would go to social media and then I'd peruse and then I go watch risky movies and then eventually act out. So for me, if I was able to identify that, but I'm still continuing to do those same old habits. That's a way like you're basically giving just half the effort. Like, yeah, maybe you're showing up to group and maybe you're doing your homework, but you're really not allowing it to hit your heart and really start to affect your hands in that capacity. Another thing is just half truths. I think that that is something that will immediately and consistently halt your recovery. If you're not able to really be honest, whether that's in group, that you're kind of telling half truths or maybe withholding. And I know you can get into some legal stuff in group. And that's a different category in my mind. Like in this arena I'm talking about really not revealing all of your story or being completely honest in group because that's part of the power of group is being able to be fully honest around people but also have truths with other people, with your spouse, not really being vulnerable and transparent. And I think of there's actually a distinction between the two. Transparency is sharing, but in a protective way where I'm just kind of sharing what I want to share. I've heard this distinction before, but vulnerability is inviting someone into your inner space and letting them see that. I think of Rodney, always talks about Rodney right the into me. You see, that's what we're after. People getting to really know you. I think those are the two things that come to mind is really half truths and just maintaining the same old habits you were doing, not actually making any life change.

Yeah, yeah. I think you could look at everything we said in the examples of going all in and just do the opposite of that. Go to group half the time, get your homework done half the time. Only make one phone call or only do your phone calls every other week. I mean a lot of the things that we've seen. But the phrase that comes to mind for me is prolonged healing. And I hear a lot of couples that will end up in a pure desire group or counseling that will say, we've been at this now for five, six years and we've been going to a counselor once a month. And he's been, you know, go into his accountability group at church and you know, as you ask more questions, you find out that there wasn't. There wasn't really a specific course of study that was leading them towards healing. It was more of just a check in system and maybe a book club. You know, the men's book study idea, which is good. I'm always glad someone's taking steps, but it does. It's kind of heartbreaking when you hear of the time and money people are investing to go halfway And I get why we do it, because it's our nature to look for the easy way out or the lowest common denominator. And so if I've got a friend in the local community who's a counselor or maybe someone who works at my church that does counseling at the side and I can pay them $30 an hour or they're going to do some free counseling in my nature, I'm going to want to say yes to that versus maybe going to the professionals that charge a whole lot more. And the rationale behind it makes sense like, well, it was a lot less expensive and it was just going to be an easier. Well, as soon as you hear yourself using phrases like that, it's maybe a check of like, why am I looking to do this the cheapest, easiest way? Because that may not lead to the kind of healing and outcome that I want. And we've had even. I've had conversations with people where I've encouraged them, like, man, you need to do PD counseling. You are a perfect candidate for the kind of help that we give. And they look into it and like, you know, it just, yeah, too much time and money. I've got a local guy, I'm gonna go see him. And I can think of a couple of specific stories where a couple of years down the road, I'm having the same conversation with the same person. And they said, yeah, that counselor was great, but we never, you know, we never really got into some of this. It didn't go deep enough. And I was like, you know, you hate to have any of that, yeah, I told you so attitude, but I kind of feel it in my mind, but in a really sorrowful, sorrowful way of like, oh, I could predict that's what was going to happen. And so I think if we're concerned that, boy, am I going halfway, am I only partially in. If you're brave, if you are the struggling spouse, go to your spouse and just ask them, ask them point blank, say, what percentage commitment do you think I'm all in on my healing from these unwanted behaviors? And if they say anything but 100%, you need to ask a follow up and listen, why do you feel I'm not fully committed? Because this is an area where it's easier for others to see it than for us always, you know, and if you're not ready to go to your spouse with that question, I get it. But maybe you could go to a friend in your church or a pastor, someone that knows you well, and just say, hey, here's steps I'm taking. Does this sound like what someone does when they're all in, or does it sound like I'm hedging my bets? Does it sound like I'm trying to kind of hold back some and let them tell you? Because I think what we're doing, going back to that story from our friend Dan Howey of like, yeah, I've done everything. I think we feel that, like, I'm doing great, but someone else would quickly go, it sounds like you're about 80%. Why are you holding back on this? And then be open to that feedback, I think would be super important.

Another thing that really came to mind, and we've kind of already mentioned it, but that idea of sharing your story is a way of really taking that next step and going all in. And so if you are not sharing your story, and I don't mean that like, you know, you're going to church and be like, hey, everybody, this is what's going on.

Oh, and you don't mean it, like, month later.

No, no, for sure. But, like, that is. That is a huge, like, layer that gets peeled off of the shame of, like, this is my story and I'm willing to continue owning it and continue working through it. And so I think that that's another thing is just maintaining secrecy and not being willing to be vulnerable. And again, like, not shouting it from the rooftops. But if someone is starting to share a little bit about their struggle and you have an opportunity to say, hey, me too, let me tell you my story. Like, that's a huge way for your story to continue. And so I think that's another way that we can keep ourselves from being all in is remaining in the secrecy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally agree.

Okay. So we played around with this with a number of ideas. I remember back and forth we had.

We do, like, brainstorming for a while.

We do.

We.

How do you gauge if you're good at brainstorming? Is it the number of ideas you come up with?

I don't think you can. Or is it because don't they say there's no bad ideas in brainstorming?

I mean, I guess, but I feel like there have been some meetings where there are some bad ideas.

No, actually, turns out there are bad ideas.

There are bad ideas. That's like the whole, is there such thing as a stupid question? It's like, well, sometimes. But why did we end up deciding on All In? Like, what was it about this? It's two simple words that carry a lot. But what is it about this theme that was intriguing to us.

You know, I think what we liked is the way that going all in really requires community around us. It's something really hard to do alone. And especially if we feel like we're the only one doing it. And that can feel isolating. Like, man, no one else around me is committed like this and I have to be. And we hear from group members or people in a local church that have stepped into the counseling process and they are engaged and it can feel like, man, I, I think we're the only ones at our church that are in this kind of counseling. I don't really feel like it's safe to bring up. There's something powerful than being an environment where everyone around you is trying to do that same thing. And the people speaking to you are encouraging that. It's like, it bolsters confidence. It builds us up to do things we maybe otherwise wouldn't think we had the courage to do. And going back to our cliff jumping stories, I have one as well of in college because I do not like heights and I don't like that feeling of free falling is, you know, it can create some of the panic feeling. And we were in Wyoming on this trip with some college buddies and there's this huge cliff face down into a river. And I would not, if I was there by myself, never in a million years would I just do that for fun. Like, oh, I'm just gonna try jumping off this cliff. But I was with a group of like 10 other like minded people and there were several others that had done it before and they were just, they just ran up and jumped off the cliff. Like they didn't hesitate, they didn't wait. It was like, whoa, did you see what they just, you know, watch them land, watch them swim out, be fine, laugh about it, take a picture. And the more we stood there because when we pulled up and I looked over the cliff, my first words were, I ain't doing that. But you saw people do it and they were having fun. And there was this environment of like, come on, Nick, you can do it. No one was going to make me do it. But there was that environment of like, we're encouraging you, give it a try. Like, it's fun. And so I did. And a good experience looking back on. But I think that's similar to how recovery can be. That if we're alone, think we're the only ones and we look into the cavern of what it will take or what we're being told it will take. It's just like, no way, I'm not doing that. But if we're around a group of people celebrating those who do it and they come out on the other side alive and happier for it, we're like, you know what? Maybe I should do that. And so that's. I think what I liked about it is that whether someone is in year one, month one, or year 10, it's coming back into this environment where this idea of being all in together is celebrated and I think helps all of us then go back to our individual situations and live with more courage and boldness in what we're being called to do.

Yeah, I think the all in theme is also aspirational. I mean, that idea of what. It's really what we all want. We do want to be people who are dedicated to what we have started. We want the health and the healing and the restoration that's available. You know, and I, as you were sharing that, I was thinking about if you started running toward the edge of the cliff and then sort of slowed up some cliffs, you're going to. You're going to get really, really hurt. Like, you have to be fully committed if you want to stay safe. And you're going to have to jump in because you may hit a few rocks on the way down if you get right at the end. Oh, my gosh. So I just think that this aspirational thing is so cool. It's something we can look to and aspire to and move toward. And what's great too about this theme is that it really can touch every single aspect of our life. And we'll get into what the sessions and breakouts are going to cover. But it's like I can be all in, in parenting, my marriage, my spiritual health, all these different areas of my life. And I think it's something that is really. It hits everything. So I think it made it a topic, just practically, that we could address from a number of different angles.

Yeah, well, and I like that it applies equally to the struggler and the betrayed. Yes, it's maybe more obvious for the struggler being in on recovery and getting better. But for the Betrayed, there's a need for healing. And we've used all those illustrations of physical therapy or getting help from the doctor. This doesn't mean right now, depending on what season you're in, maybe that doesn't mean the relationship is getting worked on. Maybe you're not ready for that. But if you've experienced deep wounding, you've got to be able to find environments where you feel safe and feel like, I can go all in just for me, for me to get better. And that's the greatest likelihood of helping your relationship survive is what you're doing for your recovery to get all in. And not. Not because anyone's telling you you need to do it, but because you want to be a better you and get healthy. And so I just love how both sides can say, there's something here for me, how do I be all in? And on both sides, the betrayed or the struggler probably have reservations or reasons they'd rather not have to go all in. So to be encouraged, like, no, you can do this, I think, is really one of the things that drew us to it. So help people picture this. Trevor, if they're coming or on the fence still about coming, what can they expect from the summit? Like, talk us through the main sessions, who they'll hear from? What kind of things are they going to hear about from those main sessions?

Okay, so we've got a number of different things. I'm really excited, and I'm not. It's not that I'm not going to highlight your session. Ashley's session, Bob's session. We're really excited that you guys are speaking. You're speaking on motives matter. You'll get into that a lot. But we also have Jay Stringer and Dr. Julie Slattery, who are friends of the ministry. We've had them speak. Both of them are actually in our Sexual Integrity 101 course. But Jay is going to talk through a bridge to going all in, which anytime anyone uses a bridge, I just love that illustration. It's such a. Such a great, really a great illustration because it's something where we're trying to get from one place to another. And the idea of going all in really is that for me, I am really excited because of the word that Bob used in his title, embracing a metamorphic life. I think that that's such a cool idea of we're transforming, we're becoming something else. And then really, Julie Slattery, she's doing two sessions. So if you thought it was cool that she was going to be a speaker, you get double Dr. Julie Slattery, which is great. And we really appreciate her and her perspective. She's talking about why God cares about our sex life, which I mean that right there. Like, I think you should just. If you're married, you should come to this event for that reason alone. I think that that's a really cool paradigm shift that she's a part of. And then really, what does it look like to Pursue sexual integrity. That's another one. Not simply purity, which I love that she's making that distinction. That to me is something that we've even heard a lot in conversation. That purity culture in and of itself can be very damaging. The heart of it really is to live in God's design with our sexuality. But in so many ways it's been used to shame and damage. And so I love that she's going to come at it from that perspective. Like, what is sexual integrity? Not just how do I stay a virgin, you know, until I get married, so I don't get shamed or beat up or whatever. Like, we've heard all the stories. So, yeah, all really, really cool sessions. I guess I'll just mention it too. Like, Ashley is gonna speak and she has a really unique story, Ashley Jamison, of being both a betrayed spouse and someone who had a sexual addiction. And so she's gonna speak about this from both angles, which I think is gonna be a really cool way to catch everybody who's attending the event.

Yeah.

So it's. Honestly, these are great. I'm really excited about these sessions and I mean, I'll just use this opportunity now, like even if you can't attend in person, live or even online live, we are going to have replays available through the end of October for this event. And so make sure to register because you are going to want to catch all of these main sessions. Are there ones you're looking forward to now? Other than you.

I will say, you know, we're recording this at a time. Our speaker outlines reduced. We could put the manual together and all that stuff. And so like you, it's kind of fresh on my mind.

Totally.

And I, I will tell you, I am genuinely excited about my topic and just the things that are on my heart to say. And I don't say that about every message I've done, but this one just feels I would use the word like, necessary for us to encounter long term recovery. It's a fundamental shift that has to happen, particularly in our approach to faith and to God. And I just, I think it's something that's been deeply meaningful to me and I'm, I'm excited to present on it. So. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I love the main sessions. I love what Jay and Julie will bring and then our, you know, I mean, obviously I love our team because it's our team, but I'm biased there. So.

Yeah. Okay. So we also have, and I want to say there are 19 breakouts, so we've got a lot of content for people. Nick, you're not going to be able to go through all 19 of them right now, but are there some you're looking forward to? Like, what can people expect?

Yeah. You know, there aren't 19 different topics. I would let people know because one of the things we've strategically done is almost all the breakouts are done twice. So that if you see one that's really good, you know, this happens to me at conferences all the time. Right. Like, the two best topics are at the same time slot. And I'm like, why would they do that to me? Like, those both appeal to me. And so we realize that happens for people and we tried to space them out in a way that you can hit the ones you really want to hear. And for us in the breakouts, it was looking at, well, what are the places where we might struggle to be all in? Where, you know, like one topic it's how do I stay all in when group gets tough?

Yeah.

And one of our clinicians and group leaders, Matt Bai, is going to be teaching on that. And I think we've all had that experience. Whether it's because of someone in the group that is going sideways. Our own story part of it. It gets tough to know how to process or say out loud. It's like, how do I stay in and not kind of give into that urge to just back away? It's too hard. So that's a topic for group members. Another one staying all in in our marriage, what does it look like to process this? And excited to have Tyler and Sherry Chinson, a couple of our clinicians that will be there in person. They've, you know, they've moved to Arizona recently. And so it's great to have them coming back, present and do that.

That's right, for sure.

Some other things is like, how do I stay all in if I feel burned out as a leader? So to try to encourage leaders and, you know, Rodney Wright and his heart of care and compassion is going to be teaching that one. Our founder, Diane Roberts, is doing one on how do we. What role does Risk play in being all in? And I think it's such a great topic because risk is. That's what we're doing, to be all in. We're risking. And Diane has a lot to say about that and how it relates to things we've learned from the Genesis process. So excited about that. You're doing a breakout session, how to stay all in after year one, which I think is so key because a lot of Us come to the summit and we've been in recovery four, five, six years, and there are points that I think our motives fade and our attention to recovery fades.

Totally does.

And sometimes in an unhealthy way that we all hear people say, man, after five years of doing great, I found myself getting tripped up by something, and we don't want that to happen. And so some encouragement from you on how to keep your eye on the ball and keep moving forward. I'm doing a breakout and just what's happening at Pure Desire and what's next? So kind of the sit down with the executive director, there's several more. There's one for women, there's one for parents who've got parent age children, adult age children. Just wanted to try to touch on the various things. And that's. Most of these breakouts are our staff getting to teach in areas that are really personal to them. And then Julie Slattery will also do a breakout. So I'm sorry in advance to the breakout speakers that are paired with Julie's session, because we all want to go to Julie's probably. But a reminder, if you come to the summit in person or online and you miss a breakout, you do get the video replay. So over the next few weeks after the summit, you can all of them, which I hope that everybody does.

That's right. And name a conference that you've been to that has done that for you.

Because we are Value add.

None.

Pure Desire. We are value add.

Just us. That's right. Yeah. And that's. I love that they get to hear so many different voices too, because. And this is what's. And we look for this. We look for opportunities to give our staff, like, you know, a lot of our clinicians, they get like one on one or two on two time with people, but they don't get that wide reach. Sometimes we have them on the podcast, but to be able to hear their heart and get to know them and really learn from their experience, I think is really cool. And so these breakouts give us an opportunity to really platform our staff and give them an opportunity to share the wisdom that they have. And, man, it's interesting too, because even as I'm putting together my session, I'm thinking, gosh, I'm gonna miss all of these sessions. I'm gonna watch the replays too, because there's just so much collective wisdom that's there.

Yeah. Well, to be honest, we pick the breakout topics because we like them. And I just feel like, man, if we like them and we're into those topics. Those who come and gather will be because there is so much on this journey that really is a shared experience. Our story is unique, our needs are unique, but there's so many commonalities in the story itself where we can learn from others. So, Trevor, we're getting towards wrapping up here. Why don't you just share what would be the main reason that you would encourage people to attend the summit this year?

Yeah, really the biggest thing is on the recovery journey. Depending on what church you go to and how many groups you have running and really the feedback or response you've gotten, you may be the only person in your community who's devoted to this. You may be the only couple who are really working toward this. And you keep running into this wall of not getting buy in. Or maybe you do have some buy in, but it's not from the people you were hoping to get it from. The summit is an opportunity to be together, as you've already mentioned, with like minded people who are on the exact same journey with you. And it's almost like going to a family reunion, but in a good way. Like you know all these people and you've anticipated wanting to be with them. I don't know what your family reunions are, but not all of them are like the greatest. But shots fired. I didn't mean to do that, but.

Depends which family, let's put it that way. And I'm not gonna disclose who I'm referring to.

Yeah, no, it's fine.

I won't ask.

But I think that that's just what this is. This is really, and it's stupid to say it, but it's a recovery and healing party. We come together and we've got people who've put a lot of time and energy into these sessions to help us all. Not just like when you get up there and you speak, Nick, you're not just speaking to the people and you just walk away. This is stuff that relates to you too. We're all this journey and so I think that it's just something where you can walk in and know that you're in a safe place, you're in a shared space. That we've all been on this journey together and it's just so inviting. And for me it's invigorating, truly. Like I walk out feeling more motivated and honestly, when we started, I don't know if I'm sure you do remember this, but we talked about how with this event because we started in 2020. How do we create this mountaintop experience that people can come up and we can celebrate and do this together and then really go back down into our lives and be so motivated and on fire and just ready to rock it. And that's part of the reason why we have it in September when groups are launching and churches are kicking off. And so this really. I just. I really do want to push that. This is such a cool opportunity to be with people who are on the exact same journey as you. And you, the whole weekend will hear me, too. Those are the words you'll hear. It's same. I'm on the same journey.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've used the phrase a lot when we've been promoting the summit to say it's wind in your sails. And I really mean that as a metaphor. And you don't have to be a sailor to kind of picture it, that if you are in a sailboat and you're sitting on calm waters, that may be great for, like, sunbathing or snorkeling, but calm waters in a sailboat, it's like we're not getting anywhere and we're stuck and we've got all the right tools around us, but we're just sitting here. And I think in recovery, sooner or later, we end up in places we feel like we're spinning our wheels. We can just feel a little loss of perspective. And it can feel like sitting in a sailboat with no wind. And when you come to the summit and are around people saying, I've been there. I know what you're feeling, and here's a next step. And have you thought of this? And here's what the word of God says, and how could I encourage you? It's just like the wind starts blowing, the waves pick up, and the sails are suddenly, they're filled with this energy that now you don't have to create energy in the boat. You just have to keep it directed in the direction you want to go, because the energy, the wind, the momentum is there. And I think that's what the summit can be for people. And I think I told this story before, but the one that keeps coming to mind, too, is my oldest daughter goes to a summer running camp, which for some people I know sounds hilarious, but that's her passion. It's what she's into.

As exciting as band camp, she goes.

To this, probably one of the premier running camps in the country called Steen's Mountain Running, and they're up in the high desert in Oregon. And it's this week of running camp of Long runs and training and technique. And she comes back from that the two years she's gone, so encouraged and motivated. And when I ask why, it's not the running, right? It's not the technique. It's the people she's been around that she's around a group of people that love what she loves. And when she's in her school, I mean, they've got a nice cross country program. But if I'm honest, most of her friends are like, oh yeah, Alyssa, she runs. It's kind of funny to them because they're all basketball or track, volleyball. They don't get it. When you're around a group of people that get just does something for you. And I think that's what the summit is, that you maybe are in a home situation, your family or your church, your community, that if you said, yeah, I'm in a group for recovery from sexual addiction, you're going to get weird looks and people are going to walk away. But you bring that up at the summit, it's like, man, that's awesome. How long you been in group? It's people that are thinking like you're thinking because they want what you want. And if that's not wind in your sails, I don't know what is. And that's why I'd come to summit. That's why I want people to think about coming to summit every year. That's why we're committed to doing it every year. Because it creates that environment and then can really create that direction for the year to come.

And come meet us. Come meet us. We want to meet you. This is awesome. And you tell us that you like when we've had these conversations where people are like, we feel like we know you and that's it. We want to know you. Like, that's why, that's part of why we do this.

On the other side of the equation, you feel like you could get somewhere.

It's a little one sided. So come to the summit. Dang it. Okay. Hopefully this has helped give you a vision for really. Because this is a dual purpose episode where we want to push the summit and encourage you to go, but then also really give you motivation on what it looks like to go all in, what that means, what my next step might be in recovery and healing.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah. So if you do want to register, and we do hope that you do, you go to PureDesire.org summit and listen, you can register for in person. That's in Troutdale, Oregon. If you can make it over here, that would be fantastic. You can also register online, which would also be fantastic. And we have two other options, Watch party options, which we really want people to be aware of. And I know we talked a little bit about it before, but the idea of getting together with a group of people in your home and watching this.

Together, maybe your group that you're in, in church, you're in a seven Pillars group, Betrayal and beyond.

Heaven forbid, your Pure Desire groups watches the Pure Desire Summit together. That would be amazing. And also we have a host site that is in Pennsylvania. You can see that information on the website as well. So just go to Pure Desire.

You don't want to come to the west coast, go to the east coast, right?

That's right. So Pure Desire.org summit, we have all of those options for you. And with that, remember, wherever you're at on your journey, Pure Desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing view or someone you know is impacted by sexual brokenness or betrayal trauma. Go to Pure Desire and let's start the healing journey today. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and drop us a review. It helps others find the podcast. Each week we are putting out new content to help you on the road to healing and freedom. And lastly, never stop being healthy.