272 - Running Effective Groups: Sexual Integrity 101

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. What's up, people? I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 272 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here joining me as always, is my co host, Nick Stumba.

The one word that defines America is a. Excuse me.

Okay, so I know what that is because you and I have talked about it already. But for some of. I mean, I don't know, I don't want to, like, label people, but for some of us, we don't watch the news, we don't have, you know, we don't read the news. I think that's a thing. So why don't you fill people in on what, what you just did?

Yeah, that was actually in a speech from our president, President Joe Biden in June, trying to say. And the funny thing is, I've had a number of people share the clip with me. I've yet to hear what word he meant to say, but what out was just a jumble of syllables that I can't help but laugh. And I don't care. You know, we don't talk politics on this platform. And I don't care if you're liberal, conservative, red, blue. If you watch it, you can't help but laugh and say, wow. And I really appreciate it because as someone who does speak publicly and has made a number of mistakes myself, it kind of gives me courage. It's like, Joe Biden can be the president, President and do that, then it's okay if I make some mistakes too. We're all flawed. So it is. It's a pretty humorous clip if you haven't seen it. Just look up the one word that defines America.

Got it. Okay.

And there's a lot of accuracy to it. Like America's kind of a confusing place right now.

There you go.

Maybe that is the word he meant to say. I don't. I don't know.

I'm interested to see how you're going to tie it in to our conversation today. So it was just you and me. We carried an entire episode. And I'll tell you what, we filled the space like we did not. We, we had some good talks and we were talking about, really, we're starting this four week series called Running Effective Groups. And we looked at really our introductory first group that we want churches to go through, and we looked at Running effective sexual integrity 101 groups.

Yes. As many of our listeners know, we do not struggle with talking. And we can fill up the Space, easy. But when we bring up the word sex or sexuality, that one word can create a lot of confusion and a lot of different emotions and reactions and, like, what are we talking about? And I think the goal. One of the goals of Sexual Integrity 101 is to create a very accessible, easy startup for churches to have these conversations, to start using words that maybe we're not comfortable using so that we do have confidence to talk about how God designed us, how God made us, that our sexuality is a part of how we fulfill the ways he's made us, and how we bring him honor and glory in our lives and. And when people can connect their sexuality to their spirituality. As we talk about in this episode, we think it leads to flourishing disciples. And it's part of how we grow in Christ. And so we wanted to just hopefully, with this video series and then doing a podcast on it, clear away a lot of the awkwardness, the nervousness, the unknowns that come in talking about sex in the church. And so I think it's a really valuable resource. And frankly, we did a great job talking about it.

Yeah, we did. Before we get to the episode, the first thing we want to remind people of, and the reason why we'll bring bring it up now is because sexual integrity 101 is a part of this. And we're now offering something called the church membership, or even an individual membership. Why don't we talk to people a little bit about this new offering?

Well, Trevor, you may have been on Amazon.com lately, and, you know, you can go on Amazon.com anytime and order things and pay for shipping, but membership's just better, right? Like, if you got prime membership, there's a whole lot of other things that come with it. And I, you know, I remember in the ancient days, like, 15 years ago when I first started using Amazon, membership actually really confused me. I was like, really? I mean, the free shipping was nice, but at that point in time, you know, we weren't all as accustomed to ordering as much as we do now. I was like, is it really worth it? And. And, you know, there was these, some. Some of the early. You know, there were a few videos. There was just some reading. I'm like, am I going to use it enough? Yep. And eventually kind of jumped in like, okay, let me. Let me see what the value is. And, you know, it's funny now because I look back and go, man, I make. What a fool. Yeah, I make up for it in the first month of being a member. But I think that's the idea you can access Pure Desire. Anytime we have resources available to you, we're here to help you. But membership is better. Membership gives you access to a lot of those tools for free. They put them on your dashboard, they're always going to be there. And it opens up some other doors of trainings. We're doing webinars, future offerings that are going to be for our membership base because membership really is a way of saying, I'm a part of what happens. I'm engaged in the resources that come out and we just can provide more tools and experiences to you because we know that you're really invested in that way. So if at first it doesn't make a ton of sense, hey, neither did Amazon Prime. But we hope that over time the usefulness of it, you just see like, wow, I'm using so many tools and resources. Membership would actually save me quite a bit of money and really enhance my experience. So that's the idea.

And with membership, you can pay for a certain number of seats that you can have for your leaders to take people through Sexual Integrity 101, our group leader training course. And then you also get discounts on product. You get discounts going to events and as Nick said, you get access to monthly trainings that we have for group leaders. So if you are interested in exploring more on the church or individual membership, just go to PureDesire.org membership, a few other things. Subscribe to the podcast. I say it every time, but I mean it. Do it. It means a lot. It's awesome. Also, follow us on social media. Euedesirepdmi, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And then we will have this full episode up on YouTube. Thank you, Justin Watson. All right, with that, here's our conversation on running effective sexual integrity 101 groups. Nick, no guests today, Just you and me. Are you okay with that?

Being here with you? It's always like having a guest in the room. How do you take that? I'm confused.

I don't know.

I'm not even sure what that means. It just sounded like a nice thing to say. Trevor, you're my guest. Oh, and I'll be yours. Okay, that just got weirder. Sorry. That's super weird.

What a great gosh. Okay, so if only. We felt like we should record that again, but we're not going to. We're going to look at running effective sexual Integrity one to one groups. And the first question is, because I think a lot of people are becoming more and more familiar with it, this video course. But a lot of people Are familiar with the conquer series, which is what we used before Sexual Integrity 101, really, as our main on ramp for getting Pure desire groups going in churches. So those who know conquer series, but are less familiar with Sexual Integrity 101. What, like, what is Sexual Integrity 101 and what makes it unique?

Yeah, in a lot of ways, Sexual Integrity 101 is connected to the foundations of Pure desire ministries. Because when Dr. Ted Roberts started Pure desire, I think what he saw in the church was that the approach to overcoming unwanted sexual behavior was the very typical try harder, pray more, read your bible more, and just stop it. And while, you know that's, that's good advice and we wish it worked, there's so much more going on in our unwanted sexual behaviors that have to do with the brain, the ways that we're numbing out or medicating pain in our life, and that there needed to be a more robust answer to understanding unwanted behaviors. And even how for some people, it became sexual addiction. And then conversely, how that sexual addiction was impacting the spouse. And so very often in that traditional try harder approach, there wasn't even an acknowledgment that there was a spouse involved that was having a challenge understanding the betrayal, the way it was making them feel, the impact it was having on the relationship. And so that is much of what birthed Pure desire and ultimately birthed training that Dr. Ted and Diane Roberts would do called the Pure desire University. And when it first began, it was like a four day training. It was mostly aimed at pastors and counselors. And over time, that got simplified into kind of a core training that we would just call the Pure desire Conference, a two day event. And as people would come and hear that at churches, and you and I were a part of many of these in the last few years, we would just hear often how people would say, I wish my whole church had been here. My whole church needs to understand all of these factors that contribute to sexual addiction, an understanding of what lasting freedom looks like, and that it's not just trying harder, but it's truly retraining our heart and our brain and our mind to think and live differently. And so we kind of looked at that and said, you know, the reality is, even if we do these conferences really well, they're limited because of, you know, you have to travel and get somewhere in person. What if we could do this in a model that made it accessible to the whole church? And so that was kind of the birthplace of the idea for Sexual Integrity 101. But what makes it unique is I think it's a very holistic overview of all the factors that lead into sexual addiction. And what does a robust healing strategy look like, both for men who struggle, for women who struggle, and for spouses who are dealing with the betrayal and the fallout in the relationship. And so the Conquer series, while we still love it and know that a lot of churches use it and we recommend it, and in some situations it's the best fit. But the Conquer series was primarily aimed at men and had a very male dominant theme where we wanted to have a series that really encompassed the whole family that men and women could watch, that couples could perhaps watch together in the privacy of their own home. And so we have an equal number of men on our team that present and women on our team. The guests that came in and brought their expertise are male and female. The couples, the interviews that are done are with couples. So that there's that male, female perspective. And so we're very serious when we can say to a church, this is for everyone. And it's not just for people who struggle. It's for, I mean, those who struggle will benefit from understanding, but it's for those who struggle. It's for spouses, it's for parents who just want to understand what their teens are facing. And it is for pastors, leaders and counselors. Those who help, they just want to say, how can I help better in an area that most people I think are passionate about, but haven't actually been trained in how to help. And so it creates an opportunity that it's really a discipleship tool versus just being a recovery strategy. And I think the Conquer series in that regard can also be used that same way to say, hey, all the men in our church need to watch this. But with Sexual Integrity 101, it's the freedom to say, everyone in our church needs to watch this so that we can understand what's going on and how to be a part of the long term solution.

A cool aspect of the 101 course is that with the Pure Desire Conference, or what used to be called the Pure Desire University, you can maybe do one of those events a year or one every few years where this course, because it's both in DVD and digital online, you can run this multiple times a year, which is a lot more cost effective for your church. And everybody who's in church leadership knows about budgets. That's important. So that's a huge dynamic to it. And then the handoff, in my opinion, and we really emphasize this because this is something that is really our content that we've developed over a number of years is there's a really clean handoff to launching groups. The whole point of this is to catalyze groups being launched for both men and women, those who are struggling, those who are betrayed. And so that's a, for me, it's just a much cleaner handoff for then running out of these groups, launching more.

Well, and it's very, very scalable, which I think is important. So we've had churches that have literally had hundreds of people at time watching it and then getting into groups for discussion all the way down to. It's a tool that the pastor could hand to one individual who comes to them saying hey, my spouse is struggling or I'm struggling. They could say watch this series or give them a link to watch it in their own home or in their office. So it works in any of those settings. And because of the various formats it's in, it's available that way too. So that's what I love about it. It doesn't require a small group, although if you have a small group, obviously the discussion time at the end is a lot better than if you're just discussing with yourself. Looking at a mirror. That is helpful self for sure. What do you think? I mean some of us need a few more of those mirror talks, but you know, small groups are valuable.

That's next episode is mirror talks with yourself in recovery. That's good.

Yeah. So when thinking about running sexual integrity 101 and you already talked about it being the on ramp or maybe a starting point for a lot of churches, if a church has never run any kind of sexual integrity group or done a study like this, how should they go about announcing it? And what are some of the do's and don'ts about announcing Sexual Integrity 101 for the first time in your church?

Yeah, for me I have one big no, no and one big like for sure do this. And the no no in my opinion is really announcing it as like a. If you have a problem type of group. I think that that really, that puts a lot of people in really difficult situations. If they're in your congregation and you're announcing this from the front at a weekend service and they're sitting with their spouse and that person. Like you're. If you are looking for any kind of acknowledgement that you're interested in that, like you're going to create a lot of weird conversations and weird being really difficult and not fun to have conversations between that couple and so that's the no, no is making sure it's not a, hey, if you have problems come to this, it needs to be much more of an invitation and inclusive. And I think that something that I would do when announcing is really work to use inclusive language to diminish the shame. And, and you've already talked about this, that it's something for men and women who struggle, men and women who are betrayed, parents who want to help, pastors or leaders who want to support people. It really is for people who want to understand sexual integrity, period, like full stop. And so I think in announcing it, we need to make sure that this is something that's an invitation to the whole church, not just select individuals who might have a certain struggle or their spouse has a certain struggle. I think those things are really, really, really helpful when announcing it.

Yeah, I talked to a church a while back that said, you know, yeah, we tried to use Sexual Integrity 101, but no one showed up. And I said, well, can you tell me a little bit more? Like how did you announce? And they said, well, we had one couple that was really passionate about it. And so they stood up at church on a couple of weekends and they said, hey, if this is an area of struggle for you, come to our home on Tuesday nights at 7pm and no one showed up. And I'm like, well, yeah, because you've just introduced this dynamic of couples coming together who may not know each other, who are being invited to share about probably the deepest area of brokenness, shame. I mean, it's an uncomfortable area for us to talk about. And the thought that I'm going to go to someone else's home where I've maybe never been, meet with people that I've never met and share things I've never shared with other people. It's like, yeah, no one's going to come to that. And so that's not to say you couldn't do it in someone's home, but I think if you're creating that environment where it's for couples, you want to be very, very clear. Like this is for parents. We're going to have a parenting focus on how do we take the principles of this series and apply it to what's going on in our kids lives. Because that's now a more convenient. The focus isn't me, it's my kids. And yeah, along the way I as a parent am going to learn a whole lot as well. But that focus is different. Or the other thing that we really encourage is to describe this as a discipleship opportunity, that this is just an equipping tool that all of us need. And if you're doing any kind of environment where there's going to be men and women together, I think you want to be really clear, because as soon as you say the word sex or sexuality, there's all these questions about what's going to be shared and what's going to be expected of me. Generally, we recommend that men and women are separate, and I think you want to make that clear. There will be discussion times, but it'll be men with men and women with women, or we have had churches that do discussion time together. But in that case, I think, again, you need to be crystal clear. There will be some discussion time, but it is not a time to enter into your own story. It's a time to talk about what you're learning and how we're growing together. It's going to be, you know, just assuring people it's going to be very safe, that we understand this is a difficult area to talk about, and we're. We're not trying to expose anyone's secret sin in this study. So if you're doing any kind of mixed crowd, I think it's just really important that you make those kind of things clear. But by and large, going back to what you said at the beginning, the most important strategy or the most helpful that we've seen is announcing this is something for everyone to come and learn and grow and be equipped, not just those who struggle. And I say, like, use those actual words. This isn't just for people who struggle. This is for all of us. Because it really lifts that cloak of shame. Unless people sign up like, hey, I got kids. I've got friends. I know people who struggle. I should go be a part of the solution. Even if I know maybe secretly I'm carrying in some of my own unresolved garbage. If that's. If I've got that freedom to go for another reason. It's just so much easier to show up.

Yeah, really, it's lowering the hurdles in that way for people. Something that I'm thinking of now that you're talking about it is another thing I would suggest doing is announcing this multiple times during the year. Don't just have one weekend where you announce it, and maybe you have that situation where no one shows up and listen. If that couple who did that at their church is listening to the podcast, like, that is totally relatable. So many of us are so passionate about this. Once we start to taste recovery and healing. We want other people to do it, but we really do need to understand and remember what it was like when we were in that shame and understand that how we communicate is just as important, if not more, as to what's being communicated. But I really do want to emphasize that as a church, this shouldn't just be one thing like a box you check once a year. It should be something where you're communicating multiple times a year, that this is an available resource. Because I'll just say this, and I don't know if I've ever shared this on the podcast, but I went to a Pure Desire University where Ted and Diane taught years before I started recovery. I'm like, these people are stupid. I'm not an addict. You're dumb. You're way too intense for me, whatever. But fast forward a year and a half later and I have a different context. And I end up, that's where I met you and Ashley, and I got to go to another Peer Desire University event. And it just hit me different that time. And it wasn't the speakers on stage. It was the context of my life. So I think making sure that we're doing it multiple times a year could actually catch people a lot better.

Another idea that I found is helpful is to try to integrate this gathering into your normal rhythms. If you launch a group out there on a night of the week or a time, a format you've never done before, now you're kind of compounding the challenges. It's a new thing, it's a new night, it's a new format, versus, if you've had a Saturday morning men's gathering, to just say, hey, for the next eight weeks, our Saturday men's gathering is going to focus on SI101.

That's good.

And it's like, oh, I've gone to that before. You know, there's the donuts beforehand. And so people can just kind of picture what it's going to be like. Or for us, at my church, we had a community night. Monday nights for us had always been kind of ongoing studies. And so we said, hey, for the next eight weeks, tonight's the study will be Sexual Integrity 101. And so if you can align it with formats, ways that you've typically done things, I think it just makes it feel less awkward, less different. It's like, oh, this is one of the discipleship strategies of our church. And I can see how it's fitting in. On the flip side, a don't that I would recommend it. And I know that the larger your church, the more challenging this will be. But another thing I've seen that really has hindered effectiveness is where churches do just try to kind of roll this out as one of eight other options where it's like, hey, starting this week.

We have present a menu.

Basically, we have eight small groups started and there's finances and there's parenting and there's healthier relationships and then there's sexual integrity. And it's like if you have a menu of eight other things, human nature, we're going to probably pick the ones that are just a little more relatable, like, oh, that's a home, my marriage, I really need help. Let's go to the marriage one. And so it'll just be the easy one not to pick. And again, like I said, if you're at a larger church where there's just a lot going on, you may not have that flexibility. It just is going to be one of many options. But if possible, you know, if you're really trying to create a culture that is addressing sexual brokenness in your church, this needs to get kind of some prime real estate where we say, this is an area of focus for us right now. And that's why we're encouraging everyone to go. It's not just for a small niche of you that are going to get involved. Like, this is something we all need to think through because we're all sexual beings, all made by God this way, all living in a fallen world. What do we do with our sexuality? So that's just something to keep in mind. How could we give this kind of some of the spotlight so that people know, oh, this is a major focus for our church right now.

That's good, really good. All right, let's talk about the resource itself. What are the topics that this resource covers? And then with the weekly meetings and the time between meetings, what do those look like as well?

Yeah, so the eight week sessions are really meant to be a progression through helping everyone understand what kind of culture are we trying to build? Because I think around sexuality there is a lot of shame, there's a lot of mystery, there's a lot of fear. And so helping from the beginning us to understand how do we have a culture of grace around this? How do we understand ourselves through God's point of view and maybe not through our shame and guilt, and then really moves into a deeper understanding of sexual addiction and in particular what's going on in the brain. And I think those are the sessions that for so many people, they will say Are the most eye opening to understand the neurochemistry of not just sexual addiction, but addiction in general. How our brain is made by God to work and then how sin and Satan or a fallen world can hijack that God given creation and cause us to become hooked into things that create kind of that false pleasure or identity or meaning or purpose. And we can actually see it at a biological level. And so a couple of sessions on understanding that and then there's some real practical strategies on what does establishing sobriety look like? What does it look like to get traction and momentum in this area? And then it moves into some family dynamics and relationship dynamics. What do I do if this is in my marriage? What do I do if this is in my family? How do I rebuild relationships? And then really by the end moving into how do I establish long term health? How do I heal those wounds? How do I heal the trauma that is actually driving the addiction and learn to live in a new way. Because it's as we really are a new person in terms of how we deal with pain and wounds in our life. Then the need for that old coping behavior disappears. And again, that's through a lens of if it's my struggle or someone that I care about, just understanding all those dynamics. And so the weekly commitment in between, I think varies depending on how a church is using it. If a church is using this like in a men's study, we do have a study guide that really gives weekly assignments that guys or gals could take home. And it's kind of putting into practice what they're learning, Taking some of those first steps into understanding my own story. And I think we worked really hard to make that self study applicable. Whether you are a struggler or a spouse or just someone who wants to help. At the same time, I've seen other churches that they want it to stay just entry level and simple. And they don't require much in between work or commitment because it's like a Sunday morning Sunday school class. Or they want it to be more of a discussion group, which I think is fine. You could still use the study guide. And then individuals as they want could opt in to kind of doing that additional work just to explore the things they've just heard. It's like, okay, now take it home and do this for yourself and see what you come up with. So I think there's flexibility there that it could be more rigorous as kind of a discipleship group and it could be a little more light to be just a discussion group. So flexibility. But that's the design in a study guide is that you have some, some work you could do at home to, to just understand your own story better.

Well, and the great part about those weekly that we call weekly work is that those are tools that they will start if they start doing it now. Those are actually the tools they'll use when they get into group. So when they're getting into seven pillars of freedom group for men, betrayal and beyond for women, unraveled for women, those are tools that they're gonna be using. So there's some familiarity that's taking place there too. And so again, that's more of a seamless handoff, but then two, keeping like. And this is the way it was created to be done in a two hour group, similar to how we run all other pure desire groups is that you would watch the video for an hour and then you would have some discussion time and then really focused on reflection going into your next week. And so yeah, it really is. And honestly, one of my favorite parts is just the way that it's structured because it really does get people up to speed. And that's the way I've always. When someone says on ramp, I don't know if you actually think about that illustration and take it all the way, but like you're literally getting up to speed so that you can actually get on the freeway and go at a much quicker pace. And recovery and healing is going to get set up for that for sure.

Yeah. And I love the way that using these tools and introducing them to your church can become kind of a subculture of people using the same language, having a shared frame of mind. Just a quick example, like one of the tools is our, the three, not our. We're borrowing it from recovery work around the world for many decades. But the three circles tool, or what we call the relapse prevention plan, because whether you struggle with sexual brokenness or not, I think we all struggle with things we wish we didn't do. Whether it's blowing up an anger at our kids having some kind of binge eating thing late at night, spending money we don't have. Like I've told myself a thousand times, I'm never going to do this again. What's my plan? And so the three circles, you've got your middle circle where you don't go, I mean the interior circle, then the middle circle which is your guardrails, your boundaries, things that you're avoiding so that you don't go back to that relapse and then your outer circle of what Are those healthy habits? And I think within a church, if this is something everyone is hearing, they've had some practice using, it can just become a healthy tool that in small groups for years to come, people could be pulling out their three circles, saying, here's my plan of how I'm living a healthy God, honoring life. And it all can stem because there's some common language and tools that are being used in the series. So I think that's really valuable because it invites everyone to say, put this into practice. How could you use it in your life, whatever kind of issues or struggles you're facing?

Yeah, absolutely.

So if you are hearing this podcast and you're not in leadership, which is probably a majority of our listeners, they're not on staff, they're not a pastor, but they're walking through recovery for themselves. Maybe they're starting to get some traction. What does it look like for that person, as a volunteer, as just a church attendee, to bring this idea to their staff to help their church consider running SI101? What would we recommend they do?

Yeah, I mean, the nice thing about it being a video course is it's, again, you can buy the digital course. It's $129, and that's it. Like, you don't have to have an event where you fly our team in to teach this stuff. Like, it's something that you can have access to for a lifetime just with a pretty cheap expense. And so I think that with that showing the first session, or at least the first two sessions, is my recommendation to. Maybe you're having coffee or you have a relationship with your pastor or leader or someone who's maybe seeing families, whatever it may be. I think showing some of these sessions is really helpful because they're ingesting the content and can hear it. Because I think what I have heard in my experience is that there may be an aversion to anything that has that clinical approach, that there's an assumption that maybe it's not biblical, but if you get into it, you're going to understand our course is very biblical. There's this huge foundation. So I think that showing them is going to be really helpful because then you're not having to sell this course to them. You're basically showing them they can start to buy in and then move forward. But again, I think sharing your story is a great way of how it's helped you and your story. I think that's another. That's one of the best practices, I would say, to getting groups going or Getting buy in from your church leadership in general. But I also think framing this as a conversation starter for your church can really go a long way as well. That you're not necessarily saying, hey, I have this idea for this brand new ministry and dumping that on your pastor's lap. It's like, well, you know, I've heard you talk about this a lot like, well, I'm busy as your pastor. I've got a lot of things, you know, I'm doing. I can't necessarily run this new ministry, but at least just implementing it as something that is a conversation starter around the topic of sexual integrity, because that is something that we can run an eight week group and you as a volunteer can lead it, that's totally fine, run with it. I think if you can communicate that and make sure you're not putting this huge weight of responsibility to birth this new ministry and arm of your church, I think I can go a long way.

Yeah, I think that's a great point. It's very important, I think, the tone that you bring to staff. Because I think in our passion, sometimes we come across as there's a really big problem and our church isn't doing enough and we don't care and we're missing the boat. And as soon as you start to, even if it's true in your perspective, as soon as you start to talk that way to any pastor or leader, there is a natural defensiveness of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. I love the word of God and I love these people and I'm doing everything I can to help them. And to have you sitting there and telling me I'm not doing enough, there's no pastor. I know. That's like, oh, thank you. That feels so good. A much better approach is to come and say, I know how passionate we are to help people live their fullest life in Christ. And I think here's another way that we could step into that in the area of human sexuality, or I know that we're really passionate about reaching lost people. And it occurs to me that a lot of people are lost in their sexual brokenness. What if we had a tool to use, a strategy to reach out to someone who's stuck and offer a pathway to freedom. Now you're engaging kind of the strategy side of a pastor or leader. You're engaging the, yeah, how could we improve or move forward in discipleship versus what are we doing poorly? And one of the things we've done to really help volunteers, we've created some resources that you could Use, we call it our group pathway. Some of the tools in there, there's an email template that you could send to a leader that kind of introduces Pure Desire and explains it. And then within that email, or it could just be shared separately. There's a video that I put together that's me kind of explaining who Pure Desire is, what we do, where we came from. And then it also has a very, very powerful three minute testimony of a couple, actually a pastor on a staff at a large church and his wife who walked through Pure Desire's resources and found a lot of hope and healing. And just I think for a pastor to hear their story, that's a resource that can be shared. And then we have a couple of our resources, our brochures that could be shared. And so we'll have that in the show notes. And if you're interested in taking groups to your church, it's really designed for you. You wouldn't share that whole page with your leader. You would look through the page and determine what pieces in your context in your story. Another thing you want to consider, what's the relationship that you have with that staff member? Is it really, really close or is it someone you're just getting to know? Because you might take different approaches? So we want you as the volunteer to be equipped. And so this is a page full of tools just to equip you with things you can share to start that conversation.

It's funny because as you're sharing that, I can see how some people might feel like that feels kind of slimy, like I'm somehow manipulating the situation. But I just want to encourage you that's not the case. What you're doing is you're strategically looking at how do I communicate the need for a ministry that for so many churches across the world is so taboo and is so difficult to address. I guarantee you there are a large percentage of pastors who feel ill equipped to actually help in this area or know exactly what recovery should look like, or even knows the reality of the problem in their church. And so just understand that this, what we're explaining and encouraging you to do right now is not something that you're trying to manipulate a situation. You're actually trying to position yourself alongside your pastor in a way that's going to benefit them, the church, and then the birth of this ministry. So I just want to make sure that people know that, that it's not a. Like we're trying to get you to twist it and use the exact right words, but understand how we communicate is gonna position this to be a lot more doable for your leaders in your church.

Yeah, totally.

Okay, so because this group is created for both men and women, and you know, we've talked about that too, that both men and women are the speaking voices in this as well, which is so great, and you've mentioned this a little bit already, Nick, but is it appropriate for men and women to both go through the group at the same time? Or do we want to split into a group for men and a group for women? And having two separate groups, what's our recommendation? And you know, how. Have you heard churches running this well, or maybe not so well?

Yeah, like I said, I think there's some flexibility here, which is nice. If you do invite men and women into the same room, we recommend that as often as possible that discussion after the videos takes place at gender specific groups. Because I think just the, the nature of conversation, the depth people will go to is gonna be a lot better than if they're in a mixed group. Although we have had churches that show it to a mixed crowd. In that case, though, you will probably need to think through some of your own discussion questions because I think the study guide that we've created does naturally lead into a little more transparency. Not in a forced way, but just people are invited to process their story. And that's gonna be a lot better if it's men with men, women with women, and not mixed couples. So if you're going to do mixed couples like a Sunday school class, I've heard of some of those, you really need to have discussion questions that are more just based around what people saw. Like, hey, what stood out to you? What did you like? What was your favorite part? And I think as a leader, if you're doing that, you need to every week say things like, this is not a place where we're sharing our personal story. We're in a mixed group. We don't all know each other well. And hopefully if you're doing that, you do have a plan that your next steps will give people that safe space where they can go deeper into their own story. But we have seen very large rooms of people where maybe couples watch together, but afterwards they break up into discussion groups at tables or even head into two different rooms for men discussing with men, women with women. So there's a lot of ways you can work it. But would like I said, recommend, if you're going to keep couples together, you're going to need to write different questions that make it safe for couples to just have a A conversation without feeling like they're sharing things in a mixed crowd that probably they shouldn't be.

Yeah. And know that that's not encouraging secrecy. You know, if couples go to this, what it is, is it's trying to create safety and that space where confidentiality can happen.

A time and a right place. Exactly.

And I think that that's just the encouragement we are giving is that just know like know your people and read the room. What is the context? Where are your people at? How has this conversation gone at your church in the past? Like read the room. Your like you are the person who's a part of this church, either a volunteer or a pastor. Read the room, know where your church is at and go from there. And trust your judgment, trust your gut on that. But know that this is going to be helpful if we can create the most effective and safest places we can for people to engage this topic. For sure.

Yeah. And I think there are churches that will run it for men or for women. But if you do start with one gender or the other, I think it's important that you also highlight when will the other gender be included? Because otherwise you might in inadvertently create a feeling of oh this is just for men. Because our men's group did this. Sexual integrity 101. I remember they did it, you know, six months ago and I've never heard about anything for women which again can leave women feeling like what about us? I guess we don't have sexual desire. Maybe we're supposed to be non sexual beings. Which isn't true. So I think if you do start with the men or the women which like I said sometimes logically just it works or it fits better for one or the other even as you announce it for men, let's say, I think it can help say and then the women are going to be going through this same study in X number of months or in this season because it right away just connects. This is for everybody, not just for men or not just for women.

Yeah, that's good.

So we've talked about that. This is an eight week study and we know that in pretty much any human behavior eight weeks isn't enough to create lasting change or to really cement those new pathways. So what do next steps look like after a church uses Sexual Integrity 101?

Yeah. And again, I think this is going to be helpful if you know like are men and women coming? Are just men? Are just women coming? But you can't just run this course and when you get done just say high five you know, hope you do great and you keep going and you're healing. You need to have a plan for seven pillars of freedom. Groups for men working on their own recovery and their own sexual brokenness and then betrayal and beyond. Groups for women who are that betrayed spouse. But then also. And we don't. It's not that we shouldn't run Hope for Men groups, the betrayed group for men, but we rarely, not rarely, but it just doesn't happen as often. But have that available if there are people in The Sexual Integrity 101 group that need that. But then also offering unraveled for women who struggle. I think making sure that you have those groups set up or at least a plan in place for those groups to start, whether that's a group contact or leaders set up, but basically having a plan because that is really the push for this. And you know, we've talked about it already that this course can be such an introduction for so many people. And maybe that person doesn't struggle, or at least they don't think they struggle when they get into watching the course. But by the end of the course they may be ready. Like, you know what? I have a lot of unprocessed wounds and trauma and some unwanted behavior that I want to process through or I didn't realize that a previous relationship I experienced betrayal, trauma. And I really want to step into healing that. I think you have to have. It is essential to have follow up and having groups set up for sure. And I think just practically don't let this be the only time you run a sexual integrity 101 group. It needs to be something that really is multiple times a year, in my opinion that you have. I think of one of the things that when we were starting the idea for this course that came to mind for me was just how do we become the financial piece of sexual integrity? Everyone knows Dave Ramsey and financial peace. And if you listened to a few episodes ago, you know, I have some emotions tied up with Dave Ramsey that I'm still processing through. But my, you know, churches I've been a part of have run those groups multiple times a year because some people aren't available. You know, like my son's playing soccer now this fall. I have less time. Like I wouldn't be able to do it. But if you run it again in January, maybe I have some time. And so running multiple one on one groups I think is also a really important aspect to follow up.

Yeah. Or even if you do it, I know for some churches it's a once A year rhythm of it's the eight week lead in and then we launch the long term healing groups. I think that can work. It really is looking at your context and what works for you and having a plan. I know other churches have actually run Sexual Integrity 101 back to back because maybe that first time it is just kind of an all skate. Everybody come, we want everyone to learn, everyone be equipped. And you have kind of a large mixed crowd. And then you're starting to have people identify like, wow, I need to go deeper. That they've used sexual integrity 101 a second time, but then made it gender specific. Like, okay, there's gonna be a men's night and a women's night. Where now, just like you said about going to a Pure Desire conference one time, you were in one kind of state of mind. And by the second it felt totally different. The material felt new. I think for men, if they'd been in a very kind of large group gathering and then were invited to go through it again just with a small group of men, where they were gonna be more intentional about sharing the answers to the weekly work and saying, what are you learning about yourself? What's your story? And they start to open up. That could be even a secondary way to then launch into the long term group, which is the seven pillars of Freedom for men. And like we've said so many Times, Sexual Integrity 101 is the on ramp. But the groups like Seven Pillars of Freedom and Unraveled and Betrayal and beyond are the freeway of healing. And if you just take people on the on ramp over and over and over, they're not going to experience the kind of transformation that can take place in the group setting long term. So have a strategy, have a plan, and that's what we've designed it to do. And why we're here is to provide the support, the coaching, the resources along the way to really make that happen and to do it in a way that really is not time intensive for a staff. Because these don't have to be led by staff members. Ideally, maybe a staff member is helping lead the SI101 as it launches, but then along the way they're identifying who are the lay leaders within our church that have a passion for this and could take on leadership of the next group. And I step out as the staff member or the pastor and I'm now in just a support and encouragement role while someone else runs with it. Because if a pastor does feel like, well, here's one more ministry I have to run It's a much heavier burden. And we've really designed it to say if you just create space for it, we can be the coach, we can be the expert that your leaders turn to, that really, you can run effective groups with very, very little staff involvement over time.

Yeah, it's good. Okay, so this question is maybe more of a philosophical one, but it is so important that we see that this can't just be kind of this one off. And if we've already mentioned this, that it can't just be kind of this, like, one option amongst 10. It can't just be kind of a throwaway thing. We say, you know, from the stage, you know, once a year. So for churches, where should sexual integrity 101 groups fit within the discipleship model that that church is using?

In a word, I would say yes, yes, it should fit in the discipleship model of the church, because that. That's really a danger. And I think many churches have done this inadvertently or they didn't intend it that way, but they kind of have their normal, you know, nice couple, small groups, and then they have their women's retreat. And then once in a while, like, off on the side in a totally different way, they're like. And then we do this sexual integrity 101 thing. And. And the way you find out about it is different, and. And everything about it just feels different, which I think communicates a lot. People are like, oh, normal churchgoers, you know, or the normal Christians, they do all these normal things. But those of us that have this different struggle, you know, we've talked about it before on the podcast. It's like when you refer to sexual issues as being a problem that those people. That problem for those people, versus really creating an environment of saying, all of us are growing in Christ, we're growing in our relationships, we're growing in our finances, and we need to grow in our sexuality, become more like God created us to be. And so here's how we disciple people in our church. And yes, there's prayer meetings, and they're small groups, and Sexual Integrity 101 is a tool that we use. And so I think the. Where you present it is much less important than how. Because when it's seen as one of the ways that we train and disciple people, then when people choose to be a part of that group, they're still on plan, so to speak. Like, this is what our church does. So I think, however you can communicate that where it fits. It's like, we've seen some churches put it with the men's ministry and the women's ministry. Others put it under a discipleship ministry. Others put it as part of their small group ministry. Others put it as part of a recovery ministry or a care pastor. The where you end up organizing it and placing it in your church isn't as important as how it feels to people. And if the only place they can hear about it or find the information is if they make a phone call to a pastor, through a pastor, to this secret kind of meeting, I mean, it already feels like, what am I doing here? I don't know what's going on. Versus they see it on a list of things that your church does regularly. That's a real game changer. So really, again, to say the answer is yes, it's part of your discipleship process.

Yeah. And I think we're going to touch on this question specifically in this series of running effective groups. And I think that it's important really to know that this is offering an aspect that helps us holistically disciple people. You know that when I was born, I was born as a sexual being, a spiritual being, a physical being, a sexual being. And so for me to take one of those things out means that there is going to be an area of my discipleship that's lacking. And so I think we need to understand that we need to train our people holistically. And what I love is the world that we live in and the churches that we're a part of. I think we're starting to see that shift where there is an acceptance or maybe some more education and information that's being ingested about mental health, about spiritual health, the impact that physical health has on those things as well. And then also included in that is sexual health. And so I think that this fitting into a discipleship model really emphasizes the need for a holistic model of discipleship. It can't just be, how much information do you know about the Bible? And can you read Greek? And if you can, good for you. That's impressive. But like, does that have an impact on your sexual health as well?

Yeah, it's really interesting to me that in a lot of ways in the 21st century, we are in danger of the same flaw that really plagued the first century church, and that's Gnosticism. Because Gnosticism was a belief that really separated spirit and body. And everything spiritual was good and everything physical was bad. And that divide in a lot of way ruined the church because it undermined Christ coming in a physical body, Christ sacrificing himself for us and in the 21st century, the ways in which we have divided our sexuality from our spirituality is kind of doing the same thing. It's like, well, anything to do with my body and these bodily functions like sex and. And all of that, that's not really spiritual. God doesn't really care about that. He just wants my heart. You know, we use the word heart as kind of this nebulous soul thing.

Right.

When really, I think if we look biologically, the heart is our brain, where we feel, where we have emotions and thought and memory and romance. Like, that's. Those are brain functions. So that's very much an embodied part of us. And I. I think healthy discipleship is reattaching sexuality to spirituality.

Yep.

Helping the whole church see God cares about what happens to your body and how you use your body either glorifies God or doesn't. And so if we can bring back together and not have this unhealthy dualism, we're going to see, I think, people growing in Christ in a lot of ways because they do see as they address their sexuality like, oh, my body matters to God and how I use my body, and it just. It will fuel discipleship in all other areas. And that's something I've just seen over and over.

I've seen it in my personal life when I got healthy sexually. It unlocked new layers of my relationship with the Lord, hands down. Like, there is no arguing that for me. And so I think that that is a really important piece to consider for sure. And then another practical thing just to add is this is one of the reasons why we offer church membership, is this is another potential next step for churches is how do I actually create this as a part of our church structure? How do I have, you know, in a church membership, you can go to PureDesire.org membership. We'll have it in the show notes as well. But you can go and see that there are these different levels that you can have. Creating access to Sexual Integrity 101 and Creating Access to our group leader training that equips people to lead pure desire groups, including Sexual Integrity 101, and then offers training and gives you discounts to events and products. And it becomes something that your church is embracing as a whole. And so I think that's another practical thing to consider as you are running groups and as you want to run more effective groups as you move forward, is considering the membership piece too.

Yeah, yeah, great idea. Well, Trevor, as people have been thinking through this with us, we want to wrap up with kind of our. What are your best tips on running effective sexual integrity 101 groups in our churches?

It's basically just reemphasizing two things that I feel like we've already talked about. And in my opinion, running Multiple sexual integrity 101 groups every single year is one of the tips I would give. It just. It's something that's going to catch more people at different times during the year. It's going to create it as a part of that rhythm that you have for your church. And I think it just puts it front and center that this is not something that we just talk about once a year, like a relationships or marriage series. It's something that we're devoted to as a church to cover and to really offer healing and recovery for our church. And then the second thing is continue to position this course as a training on sexual integrity. Not to solve problems in your marriage, not to solve your addiction to, you know, pornography, or to heal the effect of the affairs that you've had, but to position this as training for sexual integrity because that is inviting for someone who is struggling. It's inviting for someone who is experiencing betrayal, trauma, and it's inviting to a parent or a leader who wants to help other people and be that support. And so I think just continuing to position this as training for sexual integrity will continue to, I guess, widen the funnel more and more to catch more people as you continue to do it.

Yeah, yeah. What I thought of. And obviously this is somewhat determined by your role in the church and the amount of connection you have. But the more that this can get championed from people on the stage, whether a staff member, a lead pastor, it just opens the doors for everyone to go, oh, this is actually safe to do here. An example being, I know at a local church in our area a couple weeks ago, they've been going through a series on the, you know, the Ten Commandments. And they did, you know, thou shalt not commit adultery. And one of their staff pastors preached on that. At the end, he brought up one of their pure desire group leaders who shared some of their story. And in that moment, for this significant leader in the church to say, so if this is an area for you connect with one of these groups. He just made it safe for that whole church to connect with one of those groups because it was on stage, it was someone they've heard from for years and trusted. And then another man that most of them knew who said, I've gone through. It's changed my life. It's like just the Difference that makes versus if they had only put it in their bulletin once in a while, down in the lower right corner, people might have still heard about it. But they're asking, I think, at a deep level, if I go to this and if I were to open up and say I actually need it for my own health, am I going to be sidelined? Am I going to be shamed? Am I going to be looked at differently? Those questions, even if we feel like, oh, that's ridiculous, why would everyone, well, realize for anyone stuck in it, what they're feeling is not logical. What they're feeling is not rational. It's being driven by years of secrecy, shame, fear, and so just whatever you can do to champion and create that safe space. And so if you're the volunteer who maybe doesn't get to decide what's announced or how. I think finding ways to cast that vision or to even bring this up or mention this podcast or even just share the two minutes of this podcast can make a real difference. The way that it's championed, the way that it's expressed. And then I think as well, yeah, I thought of the phrase normalize the conversation. You know, just sometimes when we start to talk about anything sexual in the church, our tone changes, our facial expressions change. It gets serious. And these are serious issues in terms of the impact it has on people's lives. But I think that feel just again, like, I don't know if I want to go to that. It feels really serious. You know, we did a lot of things when I was a pastor to. To make it fun in terms of their. One night, we did a chili cook off before we watched Sexual Integrity 101. We did a chicken wings competition. We just did things like, why didn't I go to your church? I know it's like I would use food to bribe people all the time, but that's what I mean. Like, it kind of had this feel like this was a cool, fun thing to do.

Yeah.

Chili cook off. And then we watch the videos versus it. It's in some, you know, classroom I can't even find. And who's, you know, the more that it's kind of. There's the unknown and the mystery. It just. It makes it hard for people to come. When you can normalize it, make it fun, make it something that's an energizing kind of feel like this is going to be so good for us to learn and grow. I think just that mindset can help people get over those hurdles that maybe they're feeling because Even if we don't struggle, I think most people in the church do carry some shame about sexual things.

Totally.

And some awkwardness of how do I bring this up in church? Even if it's not my own struggle, it just. It's not a normal conversation for most people. And so any ways that you, as a volunteer or a church staff member, can just make it a normal, healthy conversation, I think will enable people to sign up and jump into a healing journey.

Yeah. And you've talked about this a lot, too, that you can invite people to start this ministry and that can create some of that momentum, too. If this is a new thing that your church is starting, inviting people to help build this ministry up can also create some of that momentum and some of that excitement building into it. For sure.

I love the way that Rodney Wright, our friend, talks about it, that he would announce and say, if you've got a teenager in your house, you have to be here. And the way that that gets the moms in the room elbowing the dads going, you need to go to that. You need to. For our sons or, you know, you need to make sure, you know, you're a leader in our home versus if we announce it, as we've talked about, you know, well, if you struggle, you need to come to this group. Now the wife is sitting there skeptically, like, does my husband need to go? Should I ask him? This is an awkward conversation.

Totally.

It just changes the dynamic. So I love that idea. Like, whatever you can do that gets parents, couples elbowing each other going, we need to go to that. It's going to be a good thing.

Absolutely. So The Sexual Integrity 101 course is a perfect introductory course for your church to really open the doors to recovery and healing. This course can be informative to people just wanting help, and it can give hope to men and women struggling with unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. And we hope, really, from our conversation today that you consider running this course in your church and it'll diminish shame, it'll educate your people and really help your community take their lives back from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. So, Nick, obviously we believe in this course and we want people to do it. Thanks for the conversation today, man.

Appreciate it. Yeah, Glad we could do it.

And wherever you're at on your journey, pure desire is here to help create a roadmap for your healing. If you or someone you know is impacted by sexual brokenness or betrayal trauma, go to PureDesire.org and begin the healing journey today. If this podcast is helpful on your journey, please share it with others. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast and drop us a review. It helps others find the podcast. Each week we putting out new content to help you on the road to healing and freedom. And lastly, never stop being healthy.