285 - Health For The Holidays: Coping Skills

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. Merry Christmas, everyone. I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 285 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here joining me as always, is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

It's the most wonderful time of the year.

I like that. I like that low register. Way to go. Listen.

It got a little pitchy in the middle. My apologies.

Choosing not to focus on it.

Thank you.

So we are close to Christmas. I mean, at the time that we're releasing this one, we're five days out, so it's coming in hot. And today I think there's an easy tie in because we are in week three of our Health for the Holidays series and we had our content manager, Heather Kolb on to talk about coping skills.

Yeah. Question first, Trevor, what do you think is the most overplayed Christmas song out there?

Mm. Mariah Carey. Why am I blanking on it right now? It's probably cause I'm in a tough season of life. Someone help me. What is it? That's all I want for Christmas is you there. It is that like, I just. I literally can hear the like high squeal pitch that she has. I mean, she's incredible, don't get me wrong. But that is just the.

That is kind of the song that gets like the. I would say the line on the background. There's just too much of it. Too much. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. I think there's a lot of songs, but that was the one I thought of too. So we're on the same page there. But most wonderful time. I think that's the ditty that gets used maybe as a backdrop in more commercials, movies, anything. And it really does, I think, express the sentiment we all want to feel around Christmas. Like, it's gonna be the most wonderful time. But we also know the reality that it can be a very painful time of year. Whether it's because of family issues, because of the recovery journey we're on, and memories that get triggered because of loss people have experienced and people who aren't here this year. I mean, there's just so many things that make it a complicated time of year. And it is, as we've discussed, a lot, a time when people can encounter relationship challenges, relapse challenges, encountering past wound challenges. And we just want to try to offer some encouragement in how to walk through this season and really have it be as wonderful as it can be. Because what we're celebrating truly is Wonderful. And we don't want to lose sight of that with all the complexities that can be happening in our world and our families.

Yeah, absolutely. And Heather was a great guest for this one. I mean, she just thinks so practically about things like this. And so we had a great time. But before we get there, Nick, we are running a campaign called Access Granted where hold for dramatic effect, we are raising $250,000. What are we raising money for?

That is a lot of cashola, Trevor, for Pure Desire. But you know, for a company like Amazon, no, Netflix, that'd be pennies for them. And the reality is that groups like Amazon and Netflix have invested millions of dollars in building their websites on a platform that is really user based, around your account and the content you want to see. And delivering it in a way that is seamless, is attractive, user friendly, all those things that right now, honestly, the average normal WordPress website like ours is not built to handle. And what we've seen over the last three, four years is increasingly the front door to Pure Desire Ministries is our website that someone comes to us not only for information, but then to participate in their group, to get content, to listen to the podcast, to stream videos, to go through a workbook. And as that happens, just the capacities for growth are very limited. And so that's why we're rebuilding on a whole new platform that not only will help our current users, but positions us, I think, for years to come where we can scale, we can get international, we can get into more languages. I'm not a web guy, so I can't give you the technical side of it, but from a motivational standpoint, it's like, man, that's what we need. And we just realized as we're growing and expanding things, it's like if we're going to pull the trigger on this, it'd be a lot better to do now. And so we probably are in terms of the world, we're probably a small organization to be trying to do this. But it's because of what we see God is doing through Pure Desire and the belief of what we do need. And so we're like, if we can position ourselves for that growth now, we just think there's a lot of wisdom in it. And so we're asking our fans, people that have been impacted by Pure Desire, to say, would you help us get there? Because we think for years to come we're going to look back and just say, wow, look how God has used this to make Pure Desire user friendly for, you know, maybe millions of people.

Yeah. Our web guy who does know that stuff has described it to me as we're putting like right now, on the outside, Pure Desire can look like a Ferrari, but it doesn't quite have the engine in it to uphold it and to make it go where it needs to go, as fast as it needs to go and as well as it does. And so this is like a new engine in so many ways. And there's a lot of different things we're going to do. There's going to be some internationalization, I believe is a word I'm using it now anyway, that we get to do a lot of translation stuff and offer new products and resources. And so if you would like to be a part of this access granted campaign, you can go to PureDesire.org give and let's do it. I believe that we can do it. Let's raise $250,000 and give more people access to healing and freedom. Before we get to the episode with Heather, subscribe to the podcast, follow us on social media and you can find this full episode up on YouTube. That was quick. Let's get to it. Here's week three of our health for the Holiday series with Heather Kolb on coping skills. Heather, we're excited to have you back with us today. Thanks for being here.

Thank you for having me back.

I really, I really do wish our listeners knew types of conversations we had before. If we had started the recording, I don't know, 30 seconds earlier, you would have heard Nick's Mike Tyson impersonation.

It's great.

We're obviously really excited about the holidays. Here we are in week three of our Health for the Holidays series and today we're going to be talking about coping skills and some conversations we were having before the episode that might seem weird that we're talking about coping skills. Like, what are they? I kind of thought they were bad. But we're going to jump into it and really start to unpack this so we better understand what, what we're talking about. And that's exactly where we're going to start, is when we say coping skills, what do we actually mean?

So typically, we're talking about conscious thoughts and behaviors that we all use to really navigate or manage unpleasant emotions or stressful situations. And so you often hear coping skills or coping strategies, coping mechanisms, they're all the same type of thing.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like I hear a lot of, like, you know, especially with me, people know I'm sarcastic. Like it's just a coping mechanism, you know, But I tend to hear that as just a negative thing. And I tend to think, like, I mean, number one, I have to journal about it because it hurts my feelings when people say that. But at the same time, like, what you're saying is that coping isn't necessarily all bad, that it's. Because what I thought was it's something that's helping me survive. And maybe it's not like life or death, but to me it feels like survival. Relational, emotional, physical, whatever. Or it's a way to. I don't know, I feel like there's a lot of things you can do, a lot of ways you could describe it, but it's a way for me to able to put process or language to my experience and do it in a way that helps me feel like I'm able to survive.

Yeah, I've seen a social media meme lately that says, I want to build a life that I don't have to escape from. And I think we could say the same thing, like, I want to build a life that I don't have to cope to live. But the truth is that's kind of like an ideal, maybe perfect life. Because the reality is we all go through difficult things. We all experience very challenging emotions. We all go through physical, emotional, mental lows. And at that moment in time, whether it's happening to us all the time or occasionally we have to have something or some things we go to to cope to recenter to get back to a healthy place. And what I think has given coping such a negative terminology is it does tend to be used more often than not to refer to negative coping strategies. But what we're going to discuss on today's podcast is how many positive or healthy coping strategies there can be. Because that's, I think, a part of life that until we're really at a place where, man, I don't need anything to get through life other than, you know, me and all my perfect relationships. I mean, if you're there, you're probably not listening to this podcast because you don't need it for you and you don't need the honest conversations we're having. But for the rest of us that are going through a life that is not perfect, and at times we've got to have strategies how we deal with it. That's what really this podcast is about. Absolutely, yeah. So let's get into that as it relates to holidays, Heather, because I feel like we've done a few holiday episodes on self care, and so why is coping skills so important during the holidays? And is it the same thing as self care or how would you differentiate those things?

So I tend to think of self care as kind of under the umbrella of coping skills or coping strategies, that it's part of that, or it's something that someone could do to engage in self care that would help them to cope or navigate life's stresses in a healthy way. And so I kind of see it under the umbrella of coping skills. I guess that would be the best way to identify that. And you said something about during the holidays. I think one of the things about the holidays, even though it's the most wonderful time of the year, it's also, we have a lot of extras. We're extra busy, we're extra social, we're extra stressed, we have extra events, we have all of this extra stuff that really doesn't even normally exist in the other 10 or 11 months of our lives out of the year. And so I think that with all of the extra and the expectations, that it does become more stressful and anxious. And so I really think that having good coping skills during the holidays is gonna be a great way to help navigate that.

Yeah. You know, to piggyback off what you were saying earlier, Nick, if you are listening to this podcast, it's probably because you've had coping skills or behaviors that have gotten you to a negative place. I think that that's important to understand, even just from, you know, the set of this conversation is that's really what brought us to this point are the coping skills or behaviors that actually have had a negative impact on us. And I think that, and I know we'll kind of get into this a little bit in the next question, too, but around the holidays, we're around the people and the context with which those coping skills were potentially developed. And I think that that's why it's important to understand it when we're back in that season of the year, because that's. We tend to have the most exposure, or at least the expected exposure to our family of origin.

Yeah, we've used the terminology too, that we're using something to medicate pain or medicate when we're feeling something we don't want to feel. And we can use negative things or positive things. We can run towards things that help us. And I think in terms of the holidays, we talked about this in the last episode, that part of what can make those gatherings or our plans go better is when we expect that something may go poorly, that we're going to be at this family gathering. And I Expect at some point that I'm going to feel called out or humiliated or that my kids are going to have a meltdown and I'm going to feel embarrassed as a parent. And if we expect that, then I think coping skills kind of becomes the follow up to go okay, and if I expect X, Y or Z to go poorly, what is my plan? What I will do when it does go poorly? Will I just have to leave the room in a huff and have another Christmas quote, unquote, ruined by that child acting out or whatever happens? Or will I know, okay, here's something I can use. Here's a strategy, here's a plan that will allow me to kind of self regulate, to get back to a place of okay, I'm breathing again, I'm remembering who I am, I'm remembering what's important. And now I can, if appropriate, re engage in that situation because I've chosen some healthy coping skills for the things I've expected to go poorly. And I think, as you were saying, Heather, there tend to be more of those situations around the holidays than at other times of the year. Although really any time of year, I think we need to kind of have our list of what, what are we going to rely on? Because as we said, no, no time of the year is perfect. There's always going to be challenges. But maybe at this time, more than others, we're just really maxed out on what we can handle.

Yeah. So I think we've already established that there is such a thing as healthy coping skills or healthy coping behaviors. Why is it necessary to know what healthy coping skills are during this season? Like, why does that, why are you even having this conversation?

Basically, I think that one of the things that's important to recognize, and we'll probably talk about this more too, but our coping skills are unique to us. And so really it's looking at what is it to us that we do that helps to bring balance into our lives, what is it for us that we run to when we're trying to escape something or like you said, avoid something. And, and I think that that really is a telltale sign of looking at our behaviors and understanding why we're doing what we're doing and whether or not they're healthy or not. And so I can give you an example. So I know that for me, and this isn't necessarily holiday specific, but it's just the one that comes to mind. So when I was in school, I recognized that when I felt pressure to write a paper or do some form of Homework. And I started to feel overwhelmed. I would vacuum and it was one of the things. Now, vacuuming in and of itself is not a bad thing. But as I look back at these different patterns that I developed, vacuuming meant procrastinating and it was a way that I was. And even justifying, well, I'm not doing anything wrong because I'm doing homework or I'm doing housework, right, which needs to be done. But then when I really looked at it, it was, I'm avoiding. I'm trying to escape some unpleasant feeling because maybe I'm feeling that my paper won't be perfect or that I'll get a bad grade or something like that. And so that's why I say that it's unique to each of us and it has to be something that in our level of awareness that we understand that, okay, this coping skill is not a bad thing necessarily. Vacuuming is not bad. But when I'm using it in a negative way, then for me it's negative.

Yeah, that's a great story because you procrastinate by vacuuming and I procrastinate on vacuuming. Like I would do the opposite. I'd probably rather work on the paper versus get to that chore of vacuuming. So every person is unique. And I think to your question, Trevor, the why is it so important to recognize them in this holiday season is because for many of us, the ways that maybe the rest of the year we could cope or activate some coping skills might not be available to us. So like for me, in years past, there have been many times where we travel to places like Montana or Minnesota for Christmas where usually there's ice and snow on the ground. And so, you know, one of my coping skills is to make sure I exercise or I can get out of the house and go for a run. Well, that may not work if it's 10 degrees below zero and there's ice and snow everywhere. And so I've got to think ahead. Like if I need time to reset or to get alone, it's probably not going to be a run. Or, you know, I don't have a gym membership there. I don't have access sometimes to the same tools or resources that I might at other times. Maybe for other people it's things like they've got their office that they can go to and unwind. Well, the holidays or Christmas, maybe a family is staying in their office. I can't go there. And so it just disrupts maybe the things that we have been relying on to cope when Things get difficult and just we're trying to emphasize how could you think ahead the unique situations that you'll be facing and still make sure that you have a game plan going into it?

Yeah, we're at this season right now where our oldest is now in school, full day, and we've gotten into a new rhythm. And it's funny, we even had this conversation a couple weeks ago, but around the holidays, kids who are in school don't have that rhythm anymore. And it was like, where on earth is this energy coming from? Like, you come home after school and you're wired because you're five and it's fun. But like throughout the day, he was just manic, up and down, crazy back and forth. And it's because the rhythms are being disrupted. And I think that that's why coping skills are so important. And it's funny and I don't think we realize this or think about this often, but like, we're just like five year old Brady. We also are going manic and going up and down. If we don't have our rhythms in place, it doesn't look like the five year old, you know, where we're doing all these crazy things and running around the house with a Hulk mask and stomping. But. And maybe it is. And if that's where it is, then you need therapy. But I think, I think that there's a lot to be said about the lack of schedule and the new rhythms and the new routines that happen in this season and how that can throw us off because we're so used to the patterns that we put in place. And so I think that that's why you need healthy coping skills, is because when your pattern is disrupted, I don't know about you guys, but when it's disrupted for me, I am not a happy person. I am grumpy and grouchy and it is just like, you don't want to be around me. That's why we need healthy coping skills, because we don't need to spew all over everybody else when things get disrupted.

So, Heather, you already gave the example of vacuuming. As for you, one of those things that the activity in and of itself is not necessarily bad or good, but it became for you a negative strategy maybe of avoiding. Help people think through that a little more in terms of the choices they're making, because that's the reality. All of us, without listening to this podcast, are already doing things to cope. We already have coping strategies. But how could people analyze in their life whether it's Something that's a healthy one or an unhealthy one, or maybe at a minimum, leading towards unhealth.

So, I mean, again, this is something that's unique to all of us. I think that sometimes it has to do with why you're doing what you're doing. And if you are, especially when it comes to relationship, you know, if you're doing something that is pulling you out of relationship with other people or creating isolation in your life, then that's typically not going to be something that is healthy. Whereas things that push you toward community or cause you to be around other people, or even when it comes to stuff like self care, doing stuff that involves other people, I think some of those kind of things are really a good indicator of health or what's healthy and what's not healthy.

I think too, and I said this in a previous episode, just how I feel about myself after doing that behavior is gonna be a good indicator to me. It's funny, growing up, my mom used to always say, if you have to ask the question, you probably already know the answer. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. But if I'm doing a certain behavior and there's times where I do a behavior and I don't feel bad, and there are times I do the same behavior and do feel bad, that's probably an indicator there's something going on specific to that moment. But also, I think looking at how people respond when you do that behavior is also a good indicator. I've told this story before. I think it was actually during the holidays a few years ago. I was like, hot and heavy into the Harry Potter books, and I just was devouring them. And I found myself going home and then immediately going back to the room. Not, like saying hi to the family, but going back and just kind of diving in. And my wife came back, I was like, what are you doing? It's like, I'm reading. She's like, oh. And then walks out. Now, when your spouse says something like that, with that tone, one word, danger. Danger, Right. Like, but what I found is that if I was able to go and say to her, like, hey, I would like some time to read today. Her response was much different. And so I think that one was trying to avoid and maybe trying to not experience some of the negative parts of life, maybe a conversation or an argument, and one was trying to be proactive to seek that connection first and then go about that coping skill. So I think a lot can be said about how people respond when you do that coping skill.

Yeah. I had two things that came to mind, kind of along those lines. That number one is self awareness. That if I have the self awareness that I am choosing to do this activity now or take this step or engage in this habit because it's a healthy way that I cope and I'm aware of it, sometimes the same activity could be either one. And I think of, like, for myself, I could find myself at a holiday gathering, just on the couch watching football alone. And I've not even thought about why I'm there or what I'm avoiding or how long I'm gonna be there. It's just, I'm just kind of numbing out to the world because it's a way to cope with all the stuff going on around me, the busyness, the noise, the emotions, the relationships. And it's just like, I'm done. But if I'm not aware of it, I can be doing it actually in an unhealthy way and for probably far too long versus if I have self awareness that says, you know, if I take a break from everything for 30, 40 minutes, just kind of get some mental, let my brain just go kind of on neutral, then I can reengage and I have a plan. And even more so if I've communicated with my wife like, hey, I'm just going to go watch 40 minutes of a game. I'll probably end up falling asleep for a little bit, but, you know, make sure I'm back in here by 1 o' clock or whatever so that we can do that family thing. That self awareness over the same activity is totally different and I think can make the difference between healthy or unhealthy. And the second thing that came to mind is what I would call after effects is what happens after you've engaged that coping skill. And so obviously the classic bad example is like the person who gets drunk and then passes out of sleep and wakes up in the morning with a headache and all their problems are just as bad as they were. It's just the next morning and now people are mad at them for getting drunk and passing out. Now, I think most of us listening to this podcast, that's probably not our vice, but we can think of similar things where, like, yeah, I've done that. And when the next day rolls around, nothing's gotten better, I feel worse, and the people around me are probably angry at me. Well, that's an indication, no matter what the activity was, even if it's something as perhaps benign as staying up way too late watching a Good movie. But because you stayed up late, you slept in, then you wake up groggy, you're not as engaged, like that didn't help you or the people around you. So I think in terms of a healthy coping skill, it's to look around and say, after I've used that to cope, has it made my life or the life of people around me any better? And if the answer is no, then no matter what the activity is, it's not healthy for you and your circumstance.

I'm thinking about your vacuuming. If you're in the middle of an argument with your spouse and you just stop and go plug into the vacuum and start going around the house, I can't hear you. It's just like that. Such a. Like everyone listening would be like, oh, yeah, obviously, like you're just avoiding something. And so I think that that's part of this conversation is understanding that that's what we're doing. It's the same stuff that drove us to pornography or drove us to being a control freak or alcohol or whatever is the same stuff that drives us to maybe these things that are more palatable, maybe in the Christian world, like I and I do the same thing. It's so weird. I don't love to clean, but when I'm upset, I do the dishes, I clean the house. And I've gotten to the point now where my youngest son, who's two and a half mimics me, where he's walking around the house, following me, growling, doing the same stuff that I'm doing. That's probably a good indicator too, when your kids are mirroring what you're doing. And if you don't like what you see, it's like, oh, okay, maybe I should make some changes.

And even when it comes to some of the, like you said, aftershocks, it's almost the over, you know, like overeating, overspending over, gaming over. You know, those are some of the other things that when you look at that, it's like, okay, that's probably an unhealthy use of this coping skill that.

Probably don't have parameters around it, or you've checked in with someone else on the timing of it or.

Yeah, I also think of the words like escaping or managing. Like, is coping just about escaping? It's probably not going to make it better if coping is out of self awareness. This is going to help me manage a situation and then reengage just that mindset. It relates to over, I think, because usually if we're doing over this over that we're just escaping. But if we're using things at an appropriate level, like I go for a little walk, I go watch a little bit of television and then re engage, I'm managing. And I think that could help people think through the categories.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so is there ever a point at which we should be concerned that we're using too many coping skills in life?

I think so. And I think that it really looks like all the things we've been talking about, you know, when we're doing things to try and escape or avoid life or even sometimes I think using it in a way that at first it was super healthy. You know, I'm doing this and I'm doing it for 10 minutes a day and it's just like relaxed breathing to get myself into the right mindset, that kind of thing. But then it turns out to be like 30 minutes or 30 minutes four times a day or. You know what I mean? Something where it becomes almost like if something is compulsive or you become obsessive about it, those are kind of indications too that it's not helping you anymore. It's creating more harm than good.

Yeah.

The way I think of it is if that's what you need for right now, I don't think it can be too much. I mean, if you're really battling anger and you have a strategy of every time I'm really kind of feeling that anger come up, I'm going to go for a five minute walk. I'd rather have you go for 55 minute walks a day than explode at your kids in anger. But that should also be an indication of like, wow, I'm needing to use this strategy so much. I can't just like, this can't be my forever pattern. Like that should be an indication. I probably need some therapy. I need a group. I need to figure out what is causing this anger so much. And I say that too because of how many betrayed spouses are listening, that if you're in the midst of like that early betrayal 50 times a day, you might need some coping skills to not go crazy, to not lose your stuff on somebody else, to not just kind of give up on life. And if you need it 50 times a day, great. But there's also a level where you kind of look and go, man, if I'm needing this level just to get through my day, I'd better reach out for other levels of support too, because this isn't sustainable for the long haul. But again, if it's where you're at right now in some intense emotions, like, like I said, I'd rather have people using some healthy coping than just bottling it up or thinking I've just got to power through and really never facing what it is they're experiencing.

Yeah. If the degree and frequency of your coping skill is causing more problems than it's solving, then that's a good indicator it's become an issue. And I think, again, not to sound like a broken record, but the way people respond around you can be a good barometer of where it's at, like taking a pulse or a temperature on it. And you want to ask a brave question, ask your spouse or your group members or people around you on a regular basis. Do you think I'm doing this behavior too much or how does this behavior when I do it affect you? Because maybe I do go on 55 minute walks and if I came up to you, my boss is like, how is this impacting you? And you would say you're not getting any work done. Like it's negatively impacting me and other people. That would be like, oh, okay, like I need to make some changes then. So yeah, I just think is it causing more problems? And we have to be aware of that because the reason we're going to it is to try to help manage problems. But if our management of a problem creates more problems, that's a problem.

Problems.

There you go. That's right.

So, Heather, as we're choosing coping skills and hopefully developing a list for ourselves of what are our healthy coping skills, especially at the holidays, how could we go about communicating that to other people like our spouse or close friends? Because face it, any choices like this we make are going to impact people around us. So how could we do that or communicate that in a way that is honoring to those relationships around us?

That is a great question. I think that sometimes, especially during the holidays, and we've talked about this, that they tend to be kind of triggering and stressful for a lot of us.

They are.

Okay. They are. I think that it is important to communicate not only our expectations, but even if we, let's say that we develop boundaries around family gatherings, that we decide that, okay, we're going to show up and we're going to be there for this long. And I think communicating that is really important, especially with a spouse or family member because it might be that we decide that, okay, if we're going to go to this thing, and I know that I can probably only be there for just a couple hours, but if you want to be There longer, then maybe we should drive separately in case there's something that needs to happen or that might happen where I need to leave at a different time than you. I just think that that's being smart and using those coping strategies, I don't know, effectively, because they are definitely going to impact the people that you're around. I don't know if I'd necessarily tell your family I'm only going to be there for two hours and then I'm leaving.

Nutmeg, we are leaving.

Yeah, I really think. And there's a lot to be said about just including someone else in the process of, like, you know, want to ask another brave question? Like, ask your spouse or a family member, like, what are coping behaviors you think that would help me? And inviting that, you know, that feedback into that. I think that could be helpful. Now you might get some weird responses. Like Nick might say to me, trev, you should go on a run. And I'd be like, not a single.

Day in my life.

No, thank you. Right. But I think that we need to be open to that. And then for me, my tendency is to tell, not ask, like, hey, I'm gonna go do this, versus, hey, is it okay? Or when do you think we might have time for me to go do this? And, you know, that's some of my wounds coming out, even in that. But I think that, again, it's really pressing into relationship and making sure that we're not pulling away from that, because I think that's what coping behaviors and skills should really be doing, is pushing us into deeper relationship. And that doesn't mean that that's not something that takes us away from other people for a period of time. One of them, for me, is going to see a movie by myself. I just, for whatever reason, absolutely love it. But when I come home, I'm in a better head space. And that pushes me deeper into relationship with my spouse, with my kids. And so I think that we have to evaluate it through that filter.

Yeah, I love that idea of asking a question of our spouses or our close friends. But I'll suggest a question that I think is even braver because it's taking it a step further back to go to your spouse or family member or someone that knows you well and say, when you think about me and the holidays or our Christmas trip or Christmas vacation, what concerns do you have? Because they know you well enough, they know your patterns, they know maybe things that have happened that caused them fear or concern or, you know, they observed a family blow up and they're like, and I think they'll be honest with you to say, well, I am concerned there might be a relapse because of X, Y or Z. Or I'm concerned that you're going to get into that same old fight with uncle, you know, Harry or Uncle Harry. And I think this is a question even the betrayed spouse could ask because maybe your spouse might say to you, I'm concerned you're going to burn yourself out. I think you're going to try to do too much. I've watched you kind of go through these highs and lows that when things don't meet your expectations. So I'm worried about those lows. And I think if we're really asking for input, people maybe see things even better than we do. And then with their input, we can ask the question you did, Trevor, to say, okay, what strategies could we put in place to prevent that from happening again? And so if it is getting burnt out, to say, okay, what are skills that I could use when I'm starting to feel that rather than just trying to push through like past years? Or what could I do when I feel the room temperature with that family argument starting to go up? Like, okay, here's my coping skill. And I think involving family members or spouses not only in the strategy, but also naming the concerns not only is helpful to you, but in that relationship, I think it shows a level of humility that can mean a lot in that relationship. Like, wow, they're really open to what I've seen and they may see something you don't agree with. Which actually is the beauty of asking the question that we can lack self awareness and we have to be willing to say that I lack the awareness to see everything I need to see. You might be seeing something I don't see. And if you say something I don't agree with, rather than disagreeing, I need to accept and go, oh, they've just named something I don't see. Which is the whole point of asking the question. So if they do say something you don't agree with, like, before you get defensive, take a deep breath and realize that's a gift they've just given you by being willing to name something that they know you might not agree with. And then just look at, okay, how can I help you in this area?

And who doesn't love gifts at the holidays?

The gift of here's something you're bad at, Right? Yep.

That's not what you suck at.

Here you go.

Okay, so for those of us in recovery and healing. We can pretty easily identify unhealthy coping behaviors. Masturbation, pornography, snooping on our phones, our spouse's phone. What are some healthy coping skills? And this is actually my favorite question of the episode, that maybe we personally are this holiday season trying to implement or have found success in what healthy coping skills?

So for me personally, I have in.

The moment, criminal minds.

Oh, sorry, no.

Did I jump the gun?

I know. Seriously, I didn't know we were getting so personal.

I have some in the moment coping skills, and I have some coping skills that are just like daily habits. So my daily habits are spending time reading my bible, getting good sleep, eating well, journaling. Those kind of things that are things that I do probably not every day. I mean, the sleep part I do, but probably not every day, but most days of the week I do those things. The other things that are more like in the moment things are pray. Like, if something happens that immediately causes me stress. So either at a family thing, sometimes even in a busy holiday season meetings, that kind of thing, I will pray. I'll just like, not say anything and just count to five, maybe to ten, depending on what's.

I've seen her use that coping skill many a time.

Yes. Or I will. Especially if it's in a meeting or around other people and somebody else is talking and I feel this level of anxiety, Then I will just start to make myself a list of different thoughts and feelings that I'm having. Usually it's more feelings related, but just things so that I'm keeping that level of awareness there. And so that then even after I can look at it or just take a few minutes and breathe and think through why I was feeling those things in that moment. But I just think that those are some of the things that are helpful for people to not only have the ones that we do all the time, but the in the moment ones are really helpful, too.

Yeah. Yeah.

So note to self. If Heather starts writing during a meeting, not necessarily a good thing.

If you say something to her, oh.

She thought what I said was profound.

She's writing that down.

Controlling your emotions. You know the thing that came to mind for me at the holidays, Christmas. You know, I think we really are challenged by, you know, commercials, movies, whatever. Of all the things we don't have or wish we had or remember that one year we got to go home for Christmas and this year we can't. Or that one year we got snow and this year we don't. Or I really wanted to buy you that gift, but we can't afford it, you know, we're reminded of, like, what could be. And there can be this sense of like, oh, we didn't get to or we don't have. And that's where I think just writing out gratitudes as whether it's first thing in the day or at the end of the day of focusing on what we do have, what did happen, I mean, that's something I found remarkable. Even maybe in a family gathering that's like, well, that was kind of a train wreck. If I actually stop and think through what are things I'm grateful for, it's like, oh, so and so complimented this about my family. And I don't think I'd ever heard them say that that was really cool. Or there was this little connection I had in a total side conversation with one of my kids that ended up being really meaningful and just those moments that you can remember and cherish in the midst of maybe things that you think didn't go so well. So I think the way that gratitude grounds us in what is and what we do have, what we can be thankful for, is really, really key in this season. And then the other thing that came to mind is looking at where do you give yourself permission that maybe things you're tempted to use as coping skills in other seasons of life, you allow yourself to do more of? I mean, so for me, one of those examples is like, January 1st, college football, bowl games. I won't. Normally I just have too much to do to sit for four or five hours and watch college football. But on that day, unless we have, you know, family plans, which some years we have, but a lot of times there's like, there's no plans. And I'm like, my plan is going to be to eat the leftover New Year's Eve snacks and watch college football. And am I coping? Am I just taking a day to do easy thing? I don't always know, but it's like, it's a day that I've given myself permission to engage in things that are fun and enjoyable, and whether or not on that day, like, I need to cope with strong emotions or not kind of becomes irrelevant by the time we get there. But what I also notice is if I know I have days like that coming in the holiday season, I can put up with a lot of other stuff along the way because it's like, yeah, I've got my pockets coming where I'm going to be able to kind of let go of all this and do something I really enjoy. And that could be with Family, too. I wouldn't say it's just college football.

Games, but so if you're in a meeting with Nick and he's like, January 1, January 1, January 1, then you know that he's triggered.

I'm looking up the college bowl game schedule.

It's funny, just today was having a conversation with a close friend of mine who just started therapy, and his therapist said that when we're in, like, normal seasons, it's normal to have routines and things that we can do. But when you're going through crisis or a difficulty, it's not realistic to expect that you'd be having the same rhythms and the routines. And right now, we're in a season of my wife recovering from a major surgery, and I don't have that time. I don't have the same time that I normally have to get up at the exact same time. Like, my wife can't get out of bed. And so it's like something I need to go and I need to care for the kids in the middle of the night. And if something happens during nap time, that has to be me. I have to pick the boys up. And so it's one of those things where we need to evaluate what season we're in. And especially in the holiday season, we've already talked about lack of schedule, things like that going on. But what this therapist was saying was that just pick one and just focus on that one today. Like, don't say, cause for me, the three I wrote down, exercising, reading, and journaling, those are the three things. But those are the three things that I'm not able to do every single day right now because of the season that we're in. And this season's only gonna last for a few more weeks. You know, it's not gonna be this major thing, but it's something where I need to give myself grace and understanding that today I'm just gonna journal tomorrow, we'll see what happens. I wake up tomorrow, today I've got a pocket to exercise. I'm gonna exercise things like that. So I think in this season, due to the ups and downs and different things, and I'm not even talking about my personal season, I'm just in the holidays, I think, picking one thing that we know we can do today to help bring that management of what's going on with me, I think can go a long way.

Well, hopefully this has been really helpful for all of us to think through. What does it look like to cope during the holidays? And what does it look like to cope in A way that brings great and not regrets. And so, Heather and Trevor, what final tips or advice can we give men and women to help us create health for the holidays by using healthy coping skills?

Vacuum more.

I will just feel free to come to my house and vacuum, by the way. I'll just offer that space up as much as you need.

That's right. Oh, guys, Heather's coming over. Back up, back up, everything.

No, I don't vacuum anymore because I know it's a negative coping skill. So, yeah, my husband vacuums. And I know I say this a lot, but I always just encourage people to pick one thing. So in a different way than you just said one thing, Trevor, but just to pick one thing and try it consistently, if it means that you're going to try meditating, biblical meditation for 10 minutes throughout the day, or just different things to pick one thing and try it for. Usually I say a month, but try it for at least a week and see how that feels to you. See how it fits into what you're trying to accomplish. See if it brings out some really good awareness for you. And then if it doesn't work, pick something different. But I think that because really coping skills are so unique to us and based on the season of life, that we kind of need to go through a little bit of a trial and error type period and just kind of see what fits for us. And there's really. With this one, I would say there's no wrong, but there definitely are a few wrongs. But still, it's just one of those things that if you want to, I don't know, do something that's artistic or creative or something like that, and you find that you don't really like that, then that's okay. Pick something new.

Even in that we need to give ourselves permission to be terrible at it when we start.

Seriously.

And we are so bad at that as human beings, we expect, like, it's funny, I was explaining to a friend recently about the season we're in, personally, that I'm not a surfer, but when the season started, I was on a surfboard looking at this huge wave and I have no idea what I'm going to do. It's like, well, yeah, you've never surfed before. How would you know how to, like, surf this wave? Of course not. So I think it is important to give ourselves grace in that. The only other thing I would add is finding coping skills that you can do with other people. And I know this might not seem like a coping skill, but, you know, I Sent out a text today saying I was having a hard time. And that friend who's in therapy, he called me. And talking to him is a coping skill. Having a conversation, processing my emotions, what I'm feeling, how it's going to like that is a way for me to manage what's going on and to cope. And so finding a way to do that at the same time that you're connecting with other people and, you know, maybe it's going on a run for you, Nick, which, you know, again, I don't understand at all. But, like, doing that with someone else, whether it's a spouse or a friend, you know, or going to see a movie with somebody. So finding ways that we can cope in healthy ways and safe ways and in a way that can have a relational element to it.

I sometimes don't like running with my dog, so I don't know if I'm gonna run with another person. Just FYI, that's part of the coping for me is like, everybody else is away from me and I just get to think. But, yeah, I think there's so many things we can do. What came to mind for me is when you're looking at the holidays, I think it would be really important to just identify what's your greatest threat and write it out, like, in one sentence. My greatest threat is, and if you're in recovery, you might just say relapse. Or it might be blowing up in anger at my kids, it might be yelling at my parents. Maybe it's drinking too much. Whatever kind of your trap or vice or pattern has been to just be clear about it. Say my greatest threat is and fill in the blank. And then one of the things we've used as a tool at Pure Desire is the escape plan as it comes to relapses. But I think we could have the same idea to say, if I can feel that I am moving towards my greatest threat, what are three or four quick strategies that I can do without a whole lot of time preparation or planning to move back away from that threat? So for relapse, my escape plan had been things like, I can hand my smartphone to my wife. I can make sure I move into a room where other people are, and I can take some time to get fresh air, just to get out of clogged spaces and devices and all that can be part of my pattern. And so if to go out for a walk or something like, oh, it just changes the environment. So those are things that don't require a lot of time, preparation or planning. And can be just kind of this quick. I need to cope because I feel something happening. And I think we all need that for whatever our threat is. But if we haven't identified the threat, we're not going to have coping strategies. And if we only identify the threat, but not what we're going to do, it probably won't come to mind when we need it. And then the last thing I'd say about that is write it down or put it on your phone, put it somewhere where you'll see it or could quickly call it to mind. Because it is amazing to me when we feel that threat coming on, how quickly our rational thoughts are gone. Like, what was I going to do? And then we just get kind of paralyzed and do nothing. So keep it handy. Communicate it to your spouse or close friend if you can, because I think when we've identified that, you know, we've called it in other podcasts that Head of the Snake, and we're ready to deal with the worst thing. It's amazing how we can deal with everything else under it because we're kind of feeling like we've got to plan for the hardest thing and then everything else feels more doable, right?

For sure. Yeah. From our conversation, and I'm saying this every single time with this series, is it absolutely is possible to be healthy for the holidays. And specifically today we talked about that. Coping skills. Using healthy coping skills is absolutely possible and I might even say essential when we're in the holiday season again because of all the factors and unique dynamics that this time of year can bring. But we hope our conversation regardless was helpful for you. Was helpful giving you maybe some thoughts on what are some new coping skills I could try out and maybe be terrible at for a little bit, but allow myself the space to step into that. Um, and just a good reminder that there are healthy coping skills around us that are there for us to use at our disposal in this difficult and potentially challenging season. Uh, thanks for your time. Thanks for your thoughts on this. We appreciate you.

Yeah, this was a great conversation.

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Sam.