293 - 5 Habits For Healthy Marriages

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. Happy Valentine's Day, everybody. I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 293 of the Pure Desire podcast here. Joining me as always, my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Just to be on the street where you live. I told you I'll stop and stare.

It's the same. He's on a singing cake again. I asked him how many episodes ago? Not that long ago.

Well, it's actually a lot of episodes ago now, but not that long ago in real time for you and I.

Well, I'm speaking out of my experience, so. What is that? What's that from?

You know, Trevor, it's Valentine's Day. How could we not sing about love?

I mean, obviously.

That is a great little song from the musical My Fair Lady.

Great. So good. That is a good one. I like it. Movies were made. Was that a play? Originally. Now I'm asking about history, because I'm interested.

Yeah, I don't know that much. My guess is it was probably a Broadway show first and then a movie, and now it's been done in local theater all over the world.

Yes. Okay. So it is Valentine's Day, and because of that, we decided that we wanted to talk through five habits for healthy marriages. And we had our content manager, Heather Kolb, who is married and has a great relationship on to talk through these five habits.

Yeah, you know, and that song from My Fair lady is, there's a young man who's basically standing outside this gal's house just waiting to catch a glimpse of her, and he's so enamored, and it's kind of that romantic side of young love, and everything is new and beautiful and just to be on the street where you live is like enough for me to. To feel excited. And for some of us, we're maybe a long ways past those days where we were singing love sonatas out in the street. And Valentine's Day kind of, I think, portrays some love like that that's just always exciting and fun and easy and natural. And we know the reality that marriage is difficult and challenging and hard work and, yes, beautiful and life giving. But especially if we were in recovery of any kind of. It's been painful. The person we trusted, we found out we couldn't trust. And we're trying to figure out again, how do we do relationship, how do we build a strong relationship? And for many of us, how do we find something better than what we have before? Because we're not just trying to reclaim our old life where we didn't connect very well or know each other. We're trying to build something new and better and beautiful. And I think that's what the episode today is about, is just how do we do some very practical things to grow in health and amidst the challenges of life and kids and finances, how do we grow as a couple? And I think there's a lot of really good ideas here that even if we don't end up outside our spouse's window serenading them, we still can feel like we're more in love now than when we met and it's stronger and healthier than when we were younger.

Yeah. And we get into this a little bit in the episode, but one of the really hurdles or blockages that can get in the way of marriages being healthy is betrayal trauma. And just want to remind people that really in the last few months, we've released an updated version of our resource Betrayal and Beyond, helping women heal from the betrayal trauma that they experience by this. And we know that many of our listeners are in this season or have been in this season recently. And so just want to remind people that if this is where they at, they should check out our new resource, Betrayal and Beyond.

Yeah, and I would say too, for people listening, some are single, some are separated, some are divorced, some are in very hard stages of their marriage recovery. And this episode may feel like, well, what good is this for me? I think my hope would be that all of us are learning principles and foundations of what a healthy marriage looks like. That honestly, we weren't always given in growing up years or in even our engagement time. We maybe learned a lot about communication and how to do finances and some things like that, but we maybe missed some of these deeper principles that we're talking about today. And so even if you are not married or in the middle of some hard stuff, I hope you'll lean into the episode to say, what could a healthy relationship in my future? Because I think if we're in a bad place now, the future God has for us is healthy relationship or a marriage to just say, what will I build in from the beginning to create health? And so that is also for women going through betrayal trauma, the new Betrayal and Beyond group is off and running. We anticipated it for a lot of years, but totally revamped, rewritten. Still the heart of what Diane Roberts wrote originally, but a lot of new content and a new approach that we feel really is more partner sensitive to those that are just reeling with how Do I figure out even how to breathe and do life again, let alone rebuild my marriage? And so I think it's really meant to progress someone at an appropriate pace to learn to kind of stabilize their own sense of well being and then find ways that they can lean into the marriage. And so it's just a really, really powerful experience. And then beyond the material itself, it's the impact of having that shared community of others that are walking the road that you're on, breaking out of that feeling of I'm the only one, my marriage is the only broken marriage. When you find that, oh, others are having experiences where they're wrestling with some of the things I am. The way that it can encourage you and make a difference in your story is really phenomenal. So would encourage anyone out there. If you've heard about our betrayal in beyond groups, you've thought about, ah, is this for me? It is. Don't wait. I think you'll be so blessed by how God can use this to really grow your health. And then as appropriate and maybe depending where your spouse is at, help you re engage in the marriage in a way that can create lasting change.

Yep. So if you or someone you know wants more information on this or would benefit from this resource, you can just go to PureDesire.org betrayal with that, make sure to subscribe to the podcast also. The full episode is up on YouTube and you can follow us on social mediauredesirepdmi. And here now is our time with Heather Kolb discussing five habits for healthy marriages. Heather, happy Valentine's Day and thanks for being with us.

Thanks for having me back.

As today is the. It's funny, I don't even really wanna read what I wrote, but the big day of love, right? Everybody sees at it. Right. It only makes sense that we talk about relationships. Right. With our time together today, we're gonna look at really. And this is kind of a culmination of a lot of conversations we've had and boiling it down to really five habits for healthy marriages. Thinking through all of the different things that we talk about with recovery and healing from betrayal and how this impacts marriages. This is looking more on the proactive side, like, how do we not just get out of crisis, but how do we make sure we're building into marriages and making them healthy? And so we have five habits. And because we're generous, you may have a number six at the end, but let's just start with habit number one. And Nick, why don't you take us on this one? The first One is schedule weekly time together. What does that look like?

Yeah. You know, I remember my first year of marriage. It felt like every night was date night. I mean, just the two of us, and we were young and in love and still, you know, wrapping up our college degrees and living in married housing. And, you know, every night it's like, what do you want to do tonight? And we'd, you know, go on walks and go out for dinner, although we didn't have much money, so going out for dinner was like, you know, fast food or something really cheap. We. We'd go explore. We just. It's just like you were. You were getting to experience this married life. And I think for a lot of us, we maybe have a period like that early in marriage. And then I think, what happens for so many. Is it beautiful? You fall into your routines? It's like, well, Monday nights are when he goes and does this with his friends, and we've got our small group Bible study this night. And then you start adding kids and careers. And I think many of us fall into rhythms that we see each other a lot, but we don't actually spend time together engaging with one another. Just, again, as a husband and wife, to say, this is something special to us, and we're here to get to know each other. And when that happens, relationships really can grow stagnant. And I think you can lose that sense of momentum together. And so that's why we talk a lot about scheduling a weekly date night, or that may even just be a night that you're able to focus on each other as a couple. And I know one of the things that my wife and I try to do in that time that is important for us is it's not a time to talk about who's picking up which kid. It's not a time to plan, you know, the next week out or talk about the dinner menu. I mean, if you want to do those things, there's nothing against that, but it's really a time just to ask, like, how are you and what are you enjoying in life right now? In fact, one of the things I've done on a lot of our weekly date nights is I will have a list of eight or 10 questions ahead of time that I've gotten out of. Like, Les and Leslie Parrott have a great little book on just. I think it's like 300 questions to ask your spouse, and just asking about what do they appreciate? What's something that stood out to them during their day that continues to help you lean into that Idea that I'm going to continue to get to know my spouse. And I think it's so important, just because if we don't make that time intentionally, we tend to all fall into routines where, as I said earlier, we see each other, but we don't really spend time together.

I think that that is so great, the list of questions to ask each other, because I know that for my husband and I, right now, we're in a season where we don't have kids in the home, and our kids are all adults. And like you said, holy grail relationship. It's amazing. And so we spend a lot of together. I know that one of the things that I used to do when we were first married is I would just randomly, not necessarily on a date night, but just say, tell me one thing about yourself that you don't think that. I know that's been something that even now that we have so much time together, but it still is that process, like you said, of getting to know your spouse and even this many years after being married and being in this really relaxed season of life, that we can still be working toward getting to know each other, you know, and our date nights the same thing. We don't go out a lot, but we spend a lot of time together in the evenings. And it's been amazing.

Yeah, I think, and I often quote this from Michael Hyatt. He says, what gets scheduled gets done. And so I think that it's important to have stuff on the calendar, whether it's a weekly date night. Like, my wife and I are starting a rhythm this year of doing it twice a month. And so every other week we're going on a date. And having it on the calendar holds you accountable to it and also helps create that anticipation of, hey, we're gonna go do this, or we're gonna have time together. But recently, and actually, it was just a couple of weeks ago, I went into Nick's office. I was like, hey, personal question. What do you guys do on your date nights? You know? Cause I think there's this, I don't know, this maybe cultural pressure that you feel like we have to do something new and exciting and fresh every single time. But to his credit, Nick was like, honestly, you just driving to wherever you're going is part of the date. You're just getting to spend time together. You're just not locked in your house with your kids. You have this freedom to connect. And that was helpful. Like, that helped me. I mean, I told you that in the moment, too, and that was really helpful because it doesn't put this pressure on, oh, we have to do something brand new or go to a new restaurant or whatever. Like, it's okay to get into kind of rhythms of what you're doing, but knowing that it's about the time together. And so scheduling that I think is what makes, at least for me, makes the biggest difference, is because if I schedule it, it's going to get done.

Yeah, I think for us too, it's part of that answer to you. Trevor was just getting out of that routine, going somewhere new, hearing about a restaurant from friends and going, oh, let's go try that. Hearing about a new coffee shop in the summers, hearing about a hike or a walk or a park we've never visited and exploring together is really creating memories, it's creating experiences.

And.

And we've talked a lot at Pure Desire about how important positive experiences are to reinforcing relationship and connection not only with God, but also with our spouse. And so I think when you can do something that is out of the ordinary that's new for you, you're creating that bonding. And that's not to say you can't have favorite restaurants or places you go a lot. We have our. We have. Our fallbacks are kind of our go to places too. But I think we're often kind of have our radar up for, oh, what's something new we could try together and have that experience as a couple. So the second habit leads into something that maybe for many men has been a challenge or even with Valentine's Day, they might look down on because it's about the importance of regularly sharing your emotions. And I think for a lot of men, it's like, oh, you know, emotions and the sappy stuff. And so let's talk about that a little bit. What do we mean when we say it's really important to regularly share your emotions?

I love this one because it kind of requires that you're aware of your emotions. And not only are you aware of your emotions, but you can identify them and put them into words so that you then can communicate it with your spouse. And I think that this goes really is true for the things that you say to your spouse about your spouse just being able to say, you know what? I appreciate when you do this. I love this part of you. I love that you have such a great sense of humor, those kind of things. But also when something is not so good, you're having a not so happy emotion toward your spouse. I think it's important to be able to frame that in a way that is not attacking, but to say that, you know, when you do this, it makes me feel this way and be able to articulate that. And then what I've also noticed with my husband and I is that I might have something going on in my life that really doesn't even. That's not about him and it doesn't affect him. And at the same time, it's affecting my mood in such a way that. That I need to be able to tell him that how I'm feeling right now or if I'm inside my head a lot lately, it's not about you. It's because I have this other thing going on and it's making me feel this way. And sometimes when, because I know him and he, bless his heart, always wants to fix something, especially when I'm upset about something, that I'll preface it by saying, you know what? I'm going to tell you something that's a really hard thing that I'm experiencing, but I don't want you to fix it. I need you to just listen. And then even after.

Puts the drill away.

Yeah, exactly. But it also is so great because then we can have a conversation about. Because a lot of times he'll say, I'm glad that you said that. Because his nature and his protection over me wants to help me fix it or wants me to feel better. And especially if it gets to a point where I'm crying about something because he hates that and he just. Because it makes him feel so uncomfortable. But it just is being able to even communicate that part about how you're feeling so that you can still stay in relationship. You're not pushing away from relationship, even if it has nothing to do with the other person, but it's still in the context of whatever is going on is building relationship. I love that.

I like that you mentioned though, too, because I think when we think about this, I know for me, when I hear this question or this habit of what does it mean to regularly share emotion? That it's negative emotion is what first comes to mind. And so I'm glad that you highlighted it is also the positive. That's really good. One of the things that I know I have fear over is if I'm gonna share something that I perceive to be a negative emotion with my wife, that she may respond defensively or like, I'm just. I'm afraid that that's not gonna go well. And so one of the things that I've seen with this is asking, can I share something that I'm feeling with you, like diffusing the bomb before it could maybe blow up, you know, instead of just saying like, well, you know what? You make me like, that's just a different approach that I wouldn't recommend. But asking for that permission because maybe at the time she'll say no, but can we talk about it later? It's like, okay, cool, we can do that. But then I think of as far as like, how to do that. I was thinking about our friends Rodney and Tracy Wright have talked about this. The XYZ model. Like, I'm feeling X. I feel X when you do Y, because Z. And that puts it in context in a way that helps, I think, us receive when someone's sharing their emotion. And I think that that's something that couples can practice and following that model and that way it doesn't become a finger pointing and it kind of gets outside of that maybe context of that conversation helps us kind of keep on track.

And to your point, I think that's why it's really helpful that couples are doing this regularly. Even if you feel like, oh, we're, you know, we're fine, we're in an emotionally good. If you're not in the habit of sharing your emotions, both positive and negative, when you really do have something to share, you don't have a good pattern of how to do it. And it will tend to be only about the negative things. And so when your spouse perceives that you want to talk about our emotions, if it's always so you can share something negative with them, well, of course they're going to shy away from that and be like, oh, this is a lot of fun. And that's why I know a lot of couples have implemented a nightly check in. Just something they can do real quick, like highs, lows, share something of how you're feeling emotionally. Others do the fanos check in that we've talked about. For my wife and I for a lot of years, it was having a weekly night outside of our date night, on another night where we would sit and just talk through our faster skills of where we were at emotionally in terms of what would drive us down towards old unhealthy behaviors and just learning to share, you know, how does this make me feel? And why? What's going on inside? And when we're in that regular pattern of doing that just as part of our routine, then when there is something we need to share where we've felt hurt or offended or disrespected or overlooked or whatever the issue is. We already kind of have a foundation of here's an opportunity where I can share this rather than making my spouse feel like I'm always hijacking them so I can share something emotional. Because like I said, if that's the only time we're delving into these kind of conversations is we have to share how they've hurt us or what we're upset about, that's just not going to be a moment that they want to engage in regularly.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and the other thing too about emotions is that emotions tend to have what they call kind of a reciprocal interaction in that if one person is feeling one way that they, even if they're not saying it out loud, that that tends to be mirrored by the other person. And even if the other person doesn't even know why we're doing this, but it seems to be just like a human behavior, a human response, which is, I think, another reason that even if what you're going through doesn't have to do with the other person, but just to make sure that that doesn't happen, you know, that you're just communicating. This is what I'm feeling, this is what I'm going through. And I'm sorry if I'm behaving this way. It's not you, but this is what's going on. I think that that is an important part of this sharing of emotions.

Totally.

So the third one is plan your week together. What do we mean by that?

Yeah, an example from Amy and I's relationship. We are in a rhythm and Covid kind of messed with it, but at the height of it, every Sunday evening we were planning our week together. We were reading maybe a devotional together, doing something. But we'd look at the calendar and we'd plan ahead. And with that we'd say, this night we're going to spend quality time together. This night we're going to go on a date night. This is when Brady has this. This is when we're going over to this person's house. And what it did is it got us on the same page. And I think that in some ways that's also. I know for me personally, it helped me get to the point where I'm anticipating maybe some of the more difficult things or things I'm not looking forward to and helped me prepare for them rather than like, I get home and it's like, what are we doing? It's like, oh, yeah, we're going. And this is, I don't have this kind of relationship. My in laws, but Some people do like, oh, we're going over to my parents and I'll just be like, oh my gosh, okay, I'm not looking forward to that. I forgot we're doing that. That can put you in a bad space. So I think planning ahead, looking at your calendar and scheduling it together and kind of going back to the first habit of scheduling weekly time together. If you're mapping out your week, this gives you a clear like, okay, Tuesday's wide open, let's play cards and drink wine and watch a movie, you know, or so I think that it just allows us to be more intentional about how we're spending our time together during the week.

Well, and I think, especially if we're a couple that's in recovery. For those of us who've struggled with hidden behavior, secretive things, patterns that have gone unaddressed for a lot of years and now we're trying to walk in health, one of the things we're overcoming is not just that negative behavior, but also kind of a deeper rooted pattern of self centeredness or even narcissism to look at our life and say, well, I take care of me, I get what I want, I've got my plans and I'm going to get my week accomplished. And. And when we're in that habit or maybe that self blindness, we don't realize how much our spouse feels marginalized. And I know that was our story of how much my wife felt like her needs just didn't matter. Things that were important to her didn't happen, things that she wanted to do often had to come last. And so when we were getting healthier as a couple, I think this is what really helped her see new health in me, was looking at the week wasn't just so that we figured out who was picking up what kid. I mean, yes, that's important. But it was also a chance for me to try to listen to her and say, what? What is important to you this week? What are you hoping will get done? Who is someone you're trying to see? Is there something coming up that I need to know about? And I was also notorious for surprising. I think, especially as a pastor, I had a lot more evening meetings, like, oh, I've got a meeting tonight. She'd be like, it's not on the calendar. I didn't know. And I just, I had so many meetings that I was not good at letting her know. And so she constantly felt like our schedule was being hijacked. So it was a way for me to really show that I was Looking at someone else's needs and becoming aware that the things I did impacted the whole family. And so if you realize that's a part of your pattern, don't look down on this one because it does seem basic. Like, well, plan your week. Okay, well, that sounds like a lot of fun, but it's an opportunity to value what's important to your spouse and to be proactive. To say, here's some things I'm planning this week. Does it work? Does it fit into our family schedule? Because that shows that you're thinking about someone other than yourself, and that really makes a big difference in recovery.

That's really good. And like, I already shared, my husband and I, we don't have kids. We don't do a lot. We usually have in the home. We have kids. Yes. We do not have kids in the home.

Out of sight, out of mind.

I know. Seriously.

So sorry. How many do we have again?

Hopefully your children don't listen to the.

Show, but it's one of those things, too, that, you know, I might say, hey, on this day, I'm going to do this. Does that work in your schedule? Yeah, that's great. But that was two weeks ago, and now we're in the week. And especially if it's like, I'm going to need this car or I'm going to need this thing or something that's out of the ordinary, I think that that is really helpful to just make sure you're on the same page that, again, you're valuing another person's time. This is one thing, too, that I know happens with a lot of couples, but I have learned that I never volunteer my husband for anything because that is another thing that really is not helpful for the relationship. So instead, I'll say, you know what? I noticed that Friday afternoon, we don't have anything. How would you feel about going over to my parents and doing some work up there and that kind of thing? You know what I mean? And this is before I've talked with my parents, before I've done anything. But I think that that's another thing that I know we run into that is just, I don't know, goes back to that whole thing of respecting somebody else, respecting their schedule. And really, when you're looking at building your life together, even on a weekly basis, I think that's important.

Yep, totally. All right, let's move on to habit number four, which is to pursue intimacy in multiple areas. What does that mean?

You know, I remember when I was regularly going to the leadership summit at Willow Creek. And in those days they, they had Wayne Cordero as one of the speakers and he wrote a book about running on empty and really looking at the gauges in your life. And that was something that for a few years in there seemed to come up with. A lot of the speakers is you need to look at the gauges and not just how are you doing spiritually and physically, which those tend to be if we're a Christ follower. The two natural like, well, how's my physical health and how's my spiritual health? But they said really also looking at other gauges like how is your emotional health and mental and having some monthly check ins to just analyze. Okay, here's an area I'm low and need to figure out how to put gas in the tank and here's areas I'm doing well. And, and I think translating that same idea into a relationship is super important because we may have patterns in our marriage where we've simply looked at, well, how often are we having sex, having physical intimacy, we're doing good, and if that's happening regularly, we feel encouraged and if it's not, we think something's wrong. I mean, I, I know I was there and I know there's still times I can slip into that of like, oh, we haven't been, you know, together sexually, there must be something wrong. But if that's the only measurement of health in our marriage or of intimacy, we're really kind of overlooking that our sexual expression is just one piece of the connection we have with our spouse. And so how do we connect physically, yes, is important. And figuring out the rhythm that works for us, the rhythm that both of us feel is healthy in our marriage. But then beyond that, how are we connecting spiritually? And I don't just mean we go to church together, although that's important. But how do we connect as spiritual beings of whether it's praying together or maybe doing a devotion together now and then whatever is valuable for you, how do we connect emotionally? Some of those things we were talking about earlier and I would just encourage couples to look at their relationship through that lens of like three or four gauges, because if one is low and you know, going back to an illustration I used a couple of months ago of the barrel, like if we have a barrel where one of the barrel slats on the sides only goes up 2 inches and all the other slats go up all the way, like 2ft, we really only have a 2 inch barrel because as soon as water hits that 2 inch level, it's Spilling out and the barrel is only that good. And in some ways your marriage is the same thing that if you have great physical intimacy, that's awesome. But if you have no connection spiritually and it's really low, then when your relationship is tested by something difficult or challenging, you may only have a 2 inch relationship because things will leak out beyond the point of your health. And so I think it's just a good way to kind of look holistically at what are we doing together as a couple and what is the area or areas we maybe need to put more focus on so that our intimacy goes beyond just the physical.

That illustration's got legs stumbo. Let's keep using it. I like it.

So this is one of the areas too that I think takes work for me. I don't really like to do a lot of things that are like, physical together. Not sex necessarily, but just any other kind of physical activity together.

What's that line that you used to say at our events all the time?

Oh, yeah, I don't really like to exercise on purpose. Yeah, yeah, that still holds true today. Yeah, I mean, I'll go for walks or whatever, but whereas, like my husband, he loves pickleball, he loves soccer, he loves doing all of these things. And so we've just had to kind of navigate that differently. One of the things that he did recently was that we have kind of a big driveway. And because I like playing pickleball, but I don't want to play with other people and I don't really want to play make or keep score or anything like that. But he painted a court on our driveway. And so then, you know, when the weather is nice, then we can just get out there, just the two of us, and we play for a couple hours and it's so much fun. And that's just another thing that we're able to do that kind of builds relationship between us. And Nick, you mentioned even spiritually, what we do, like we've done connected together and some other things. But recently we ended up purchasing the workbooks, the Experiencing God, because I went through that a couple years ago with a women's group. And it was so amazing and impactful to me. And so this is something that we've already started to plan that, okay, we're going to do this, this series together or this study together that is in addition to like church or other groups or whatever, but just to, I don't know, build relationship spiritually together.

Yeah, I think even as we're talking about this, I think it's important to know that there are different aspects to each of these categories of intimacy and then that they're all connected. Like, something is simply, like, you're driving somewhere and you're holding hands, like, that is physical intimacy, but that also can be emotional intimacy. There is a physical closeness that's happening, but also an emotional that's happening. And so I think that that's one thing I would just, like, take into account. Like, you can go on a walk and talk to each other, and that can be both physical intimacy and emotional intimacy and spiritual intimacy, you know? And so thinking through what are things that we can do on a regular, semi regular basis that helps facilitate that. And as someone who loves efficiency, like, if one of them checks three boxes, fantastic. Like, let's go do that, you know? But I think that, again, this is a category where I think we might feel pressure to do, like, new and fresh things all of the time. But if, you know that going on, like, you know, for us, we have a really long driveway. If going on a walk with my family, you know, like us and the kids going on a walk down and back a few times, creates intimacy in my family, both physical, emotional, we have spiritual conversations, then let's find more time to do that. Let's find more opportunities to do that together. So just know that they overlap and that you can check multiple boxes at the same time.

Yeah, yeah. So if you're listening to the list and feeling overwhelmed of, oh, my gosh, when do we have time to do all this? And, you know, it's. It's not like date night is a separate thing from developing emotional intimacy. And. And that planning your week doesn't lead into some of these areas as well. So, yeah, just. I think that's a theme here, is look for what works for you. What are those places where it's a significant connection moment as a couple. And for some people, it might be walks together. Others it might be the key importance of their date night. Others it may be a certain weekend morning where they have extended time just to kind of focus on coupleship. Because if you're doing that, what works for you, a lot of these will happen within that same time period. So that leads us into the fifth habit, which is to find shared passions to pursue. What do we mean by this?

So I think for me personally, this one sounds challenging because.

Because Michael doesn't like Criminal Minds because.

He'Ll watch it with me, but he's just not as passionate about it as I am. Thank you so much for that, Trevor.

Sure. You're welcome.

Yeah, but it's those kind of things that I think, I don't know, sometimes I think it has to be a super big deal to make sure that we're doing something, that we're pursuing passions together. And yet when I think about this, Michael and I, we both work for pure desire, which I know a lot of couples couldn't do that, but it works for us. And we are both very passionate for this work and what we do here. And I think that, that and because we're very like minded in a lot of ways and I really appreciate that we have that major area of passion together that really allows us to talk about things throughout the day, work related things. But even at home or on the weekends, the way that we can even talk about stuff, pure desire related there, especially when it has to do with people's stories of healing and recovery and just what God is doing in people's lives. It really is an amazing, amazing gift that we can experience together in our relationship and I'm so thankful for it.

Yeah. Recently our alma mater, Amy and I Corbin University, was in the volleyball championship national championship game. And it's funny, we don't sit down and watch sports together all that often. Like, I watch football, my boys love it. Not having cable sucks sometimes when you're watching sports, but anyways, it's on. We have it like on the TV and we're watching and my wife is like pumped. Like she's like pacing back and forth. She's sitting up, she's sitting down, she can't like sit still. And it just like multiple times I'm like, God, I love you so much right now. Like, it's so fun to see this, you know, but what was cool is like she is like, we're both passionate about where we went to school. We're both passionate. She was a coach, you know, and a player, you know, at volleyball and was successful. And so for me it's. That isn't something we do regularly. But that was a real big connection point for our relationship, that it was fun. And I think that that's this passion thing is we're looking for ways to create fun in relationship together. But another thought too is like, my wife's really passionate about generosity and caring for people. And I have learned how to be passionate about that the longer I've been married to her. As most people who know me, I'm trying to change this. My first thought is not like, how can I help you? It's like, oh, that sucks. I'm sorry. And then I go do what I'm going to do. But one of the things that I do know we're both passionate about is relationships, like being involved in our growth group, having friends, having them over, hosting. So it's not like it has to be like sports or fitness or, you know, being a foodie or not like it can also just be. We both love our friends, we both love our community and our church, and we want to be involved together. And so finding ways that you can use both passions and giftings together as a couple for the betterment of other people and even for your own family, I think that that's what we're after, is trying to create fun and connection with the way God's wired us both.

Yeah. Not only is it important to find something that might be a shared passion, I think at the same time it's equally important to consider how do I invest to some level, whether emotionally, relationally, or financially, in something that's important to my spouse, Because I think that's an area where we can inadvertently create space as a couple. It's like, oh, well, she's out in her garden and her stupid garden and all her time in the garden. And if that's your wife's thing and you start to feel like it's competing for your attention or something like that, that can become unhealthy. But what if you're able to see, oh, this is something they're very passionate about. I don't necessarily have to become a gardener myself, but I remember Andy Stanley saying this in a sermon, that if your wife is into gardening, you're into gardening because you're one flesh, you're a couple. And so you need to look creatively at how do I support something that's important to the person, that's important to me? And so maybe you don't like going and digging in the dirt with her, but you do enjoy going to the plant store and looking at what new trees are there. So you make that a priority to once, like, hey, we take our trip to the plant store and we help look at stuff. If that's. If that's a way you can engage, say this is important to you, and maybe vice versa. If your husband is really passionate about a sports team or an outdoor adventure club or, you know, something that to them is their thing. And you've always kind of held it like, well, that's his thing. It means so much to the other person when you lean in and just. And take interest in how did it go. And, you know, is There new gear that you're looking at. Tell me about it. And you don't have to become, you know, let's say it's rock climbing. You don't need to become an expert rock climber. That you need to have an enthusiasm for what your spouse is enthusiastic about because that does create, I think, incredible connection and keeps us from having these places like, well, that's their thing. And I don't really care about it because that does tend to communicate. I'm not into what you're into. And so I think that's something my wife and I have really worked on because we do have some things we love to do together. But there's several things, like, well, that's his thing, that's her thing. But how can I take an active interest so that I really communicate? I value them and I value what they do.

Do you think that Nick was being serious with the gardening? Like, do you think he doesn't like gardening?

I don't know.

Okay, maybe we'll ask him later off air.

Okay. And because we can, we can give listeners one more bonus. Habit number six is prioritize your own personal health. What do we mean by this?

We say this a lot at pure desire on the show, in our resources, at our events, that the greatest gift you can give someone else is your own health, is taking care of yourself. And I think that you healthy is better for everyone around you. And so, and I mean, and this isn't just like a recovery principle trying to slip into this conversation. This is something that will absolutely impact your relationship with your spouse, is that if you're pursuing health emotionally, sexually, spiritually, physically, all of it, then your relationship has a much better opportunity to grow and develop and be rich. And I think that that's what we're after. I think that we need to prioritize our own health. And I think it's easy to point the finger and be like, oh, well, I definitely know my spouse needs to work on this, this, this, this, and this. I think that we need to look at ourselves and be like, okay, these are some of the areas that I need to work on. And that continued growth mindset is going to benefit relationships for sure.

When it goes back to what you were saying earlier, Heather, about our emotional state of mind, that if I'm in a negative place, even if I'm not sharing that, it tends to be mirrored in the environment around me. Even if I don't intend to just, I'm a little grumpier. I may be a little more quiet or Reserved or my answers are a little shorter. The tone of my voice might be slightly different. I just can't help but create around me kind of what's happening inside of me. And I think this is the flip side of that recognition that if I'm in a good place, I will bring that goodness to people around me. So if I'm feeling good about health, commitments I've made, if I've gotten to get my exercise in or do that thing with my friends, that's part of my weekly rhythm, whatever it is for you that you would say, that's when I'm personally healthy, that's gonna bring that health into your relationships. And so I think just valuing that, prioritizing that we're in mid February, so many people listening maybe had some New Year's goals or resolutions, and this is probably about the time of year that some of those have gone out the window. This might be a good time to reevaluate and be reminded that New Year's resolutions or goals were not about perfection. They're about direction. And so if you've kind of lost your streak, you know, you're not eating as healthy as you planned to or exercising as much or whatever it is you were working on, like, just recommit to that direction of. I'm working towards being a healthier me because I believe that that will bring health into my environment and particularly into my marriage relationship.

And maybe they should go listen to episode 286 at the end of last year on how to create realistic resolutions. Okay, go ahead.

Nice. So I think that this one, too, has a lot to do with the season of life that you're in and where you're at, because I know that I remember the days of having kids, and they were in school and in sports and working and all of the things. And being healthy was not at all even on my list. And so that is also important, I think, for couples to have that conversation to say, you know what? I really feel like I need to make more time and space for this. How would you feel about if we look at our schedule and I can plan something for an hour or two here? I think that that does a lot to. Not only just for your own personal health, but for the health of the relationship to just tell your spouse that, you know, this is a priority for me, and maybe the laundry's gonna have to wait until another day so that I can go and have coffee with a friend or something, you know, but it's important.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's Important too, to say after, you know, the point that you're making that maybe you're in a season where this sixth habit of prioritizing your own health is the only one of these that you can do right now. And that's okay. Like making sure that you're getting healing from the betrayal and you're getting recovery from the addiction, the sexual brokenness. Like, maybe that's where you're at, and that's okay. And I think that that, you know, gives language to. Pick one of these, depending on where your relationship is at, pick one of these and start implementing it now into your relationship. But don't feel like you have to do all five this week, you know, in order to, like, really start doing this. This is stuff that over time, once it becomes a habit, then you can start adding another one in and creating that. So hope these are not the only five things that can help healthy marriages, but we do know that these are habits or six. Right?

Six.

You're right.

You're right. We were generous. I forgot how generous. See, it doesn't come naturally to me.

You're working on it, though.

We appreciate it. That's right. But we do hope that these five or six habits definitely help you craft more of a healthy marriage that we know that God intends to for you to have. And again, just make sure you're picking one and working on it together and trust that God is going to use that in your relationship. He thanks for being with us Valentine's Day. Again, thank you so much for your time.

Nice being here.

All right. And wherever you're at on your journey, pure desire is here to help you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. If you or someone you know needs recovery and healing, go to PureDesire.org and begin the journey today. If you like this episode or are a fan of the podcast, please share it with others. Make sure to check out the full episode on YouTube as well. And thanks so much for joining us on this recovery and healing journey. And lastly, never stop being healthy.