300 - We Made It To 300!

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma.

Hello, listener, what is up? I am your host, Nick Stumbo, and you are listening to episode 300 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here joining me, as always, is my co host, Trevor Windsor.

The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many. And before this battle is over, that even a God king can bleed.

Okay, I think we know why we haven't had you do many intros now. Cause I didn't know how long you were gonna go. I thought it was like a speech that I should take notes. Nope. God King. I don't know what that's from.

You shouldn't be ashamed that you do. That is from the movie 300.

King Leonidas says that it felt like a big battle speech.

Yep. Xerxes. That's what he said to him. There's so many great quotes from that movie, by the way.

I bet.

And I didn't want to yell, this is Sparta. Although I talked to Justin about maybe doing that.

You should have. Then Justin could be upset at you as well. Not just me for yelling intros.

No, but like, that's. We. We are at 300. It felt like the right movie to quote, even though I wouldn't recommend that movie really to anybody. There's great fight scenes you can find on YouTube.

That's what I would say if you could watch it on what's the Pros, like angel videos or I heard a Christian comedian joking about, man, I love angel vid. It's so great. Because I got to see Saving Private Ryan. It was like four minutes long. So I wonder how long 300 would be put through one of those filters. But, yeah, very quotable. And honestly, when I thought about you doing intros, what makes me nervous or why we maybe haven't done it is I think your breadth of movie watching book reading is a lot, lot broader than mine. I think of myself, I'm a little bit kind of mainstream, you know, and a lot of. I grew up in a very, very Christian environment. And so, you know, Michael W. Smith and Amy Grant were my heroes as a kid, but I know. I just feel like I listened to.

Point of Grace growing up.

I know you do too, but I think your story, what I just hear, like, you've had a lot more experiences and you bring up, like, music. I've like, I've never heard of that person. Or movies or books. I'm like, oh, sounds great. So I think if our roles were reversed long Term, you would have a lot more intros. I'd be like, I have no idea. What's up? What's that from?

The people who've been listening to the show know I have plenty of those where you say something.

I'm not as many. Usually it involves, like, a 1980s Sunday school song. That's right.

Something you saw in a flannel graph somewhere.

And just so the listeners know, like, stumping Trevor is not my goal. Honestly, the intros is just like, what can I come up with today?

It's fun, though.

That somehow connects to the episode, and you did a great job of connecting to the episode. So thank you. Yes. Today is our 300th episode, and we just wanted to kind of review the last hundred episodes like we've done on other, you know, hitting these hundred marks. We had a lot of fun doing that. But before we get to this great episode, we got a couple of things for you, our listener, real quick. I assume I get to do this. Yeah, thanks. Okay. I was just jumping in. I'm like, well, I'm the host today. So we have, number one, we have a giveaway for you. And to celebrate 300 episodes, we are giving away, not one, not two, a $300 gift card. You heard that right, listener. $300 gift card to our online store. Think of all the products and resources you could buy for you, your groups, to give away, to donate to your church. $300. So to enter to win, we have put together a short survey. We would love to hear from you, the listener, and to take that survey and be entered to win $300, $1 for every episode, go to PureDesire.org 300. PureDesire.org 300. So pretty easy. It's our website with slash 300 at the end. You probably don't even need to write it down. You could go type it in, take that survey. Trevor, how long will that survey take them?

Like two minutes.

Two minutes for your opinion. Help us shape the podcast for the next 300, and you might win $300 to our store. So pretty cool. That giveaway will end Tuesday, April 11, so you've got a little bit of time to do that.

One week.

Don't dilly dally. Get her done today and enter to win, and you could be the $300 winner. Other things, we'd love it if you subscribe to the podcast, which we say every time. And surprisingly, there are still a lot of people that have never subscribed, never left a review, and we talk about that. We try not to let that hurt our feelings. But come on, if you've been with us for more than, like, what should we say? More than 20 episodes, you should write a review, subscribe, because truly, it makes the Pure Desire podcast show up in more suggestions, more feeds, and help more people, because that's what we're here to do. So it's not. Honestly, the review is not for us. I mean, we've. We've got several hundred up there, right?

Yeah, but that's the thing, like, and that's why I'm glad you bring it up, because we have, like, this last month. We had 70,000 downloads that month, but we only have 490 reviews. Like, the math doesn't add up there a lot. Like, what you'll hear at the beginning of this episode. The math doesn't add up.

So we. My. My point with that was we've. We've heard enough reviews that we get a good feel for what you, our listener, think and feel. And, like. Like, we don't need it for us, we're really saying, help us get this in front of more people. And reviews and likes are the way that that happens. So thanks for thinking about that. You can watch the full episode on YouTube and see how red Trevor's cheeks get during one part of the episode today. And you can also follow us on social media. We're on all the major platforms. PureDesirePDMI. That's EaredEsirePDMI. All right, let's get to the episode. We had a lot of fun. We hope you, the listener, enjoy it. Here is episode 300 of the Pure Desire podcast.

We made it to 300. Like, 300 episodes. I don't know if. Okay, I didn't tell you this. I had a conversation last Sunday with someone in my growth group, and he was talking about, like, someone he knows. Like, do you have any resources or anything I could give this person? And. And I was like, yeah, we actually have a podcast. And he goes, oh, wow, that's really cool. Like, how many episodes have you guys done? And I'm like, 300. He goes, 300. Oh, my God.

What?

I was like, yeah, man, 300. So that's a lot.

Yeah, I mean, the number's getting high enough that, like, you almost. I don't know. Totally. But you can start to feel like maybe we should stop talking about it. Kind of like your age. As I get older, like, my age is something I'm less interested in talking about because it's like, yeah, I've done a lot of these, and I. I Don't really want to remind her sometimes of how old I am. So that's not the same on the podcast. But I was thinking about that for this episode. Like, I remember hitting 100. It was like, wow, that's a big number. And you know, I think when we started this, we had hopes for it, but we didn't know if it'd be successful or what extent it would grow or how it would help people. And that felt monumental. And yeah, that was about the two year mark, you know, and then 200, like, wow, we like doubled it. And now 300 is kind of like, yeah, I mean, it's kind of become a routine for us of, yeah, this is what we do and we're going to keep doing it. And so 400 and 506. Like, it's just going to keep going unless God tells us to stop or the medium totally changes and no one listens anymore. But we've just continued to see, basically from episode one to today, it's continued to grow and help people. And if we can help people by sitting in this room and talking about things that most people aren't talking about, we're here for it. So it's awesome to celebrate. It's crazy to think that that means we're coming up on six years worth of episod. We were much younger, more foolish men when we started. Now we're getting old and wise and hopefully it just keeps getting better. So, yeah, pretty. Pretty incredible.

Thanks for speaking that over me, by the way. Much younger and okay. It is true. It is crazy to think about. And I did the math the other day. If we. Because some of those earlier episodes were only like a half an hour. But if you do the Math, we have 10,000 hours. We have 18, probably around 18,000 hours of doing this, which is wild when.

You get the math on 300 episodes right?

Times 60 minutes. 18,000.

Oh, you mean minutes.

Yeah, 18,000. Oh, crap.

Well, cuz I'm like, crap. Did I really do that? And then divide like so that's like 300 hours. 300 episodes.

So 300. How you do the math?

Help me.

Help me do the math, man. I look like an idiot right now.

300.

Justice. Shut your mouth.

Times 60 minutes.

Times 60 minutes.

Yeah. That would be 18,000 minutes divided by 60. That would still be 300 hours.

Son of a bean.

But that's a long.

Can you see how aspirational.

Like, let's put that in days.

Oh my. This is why I'm not.

That's why he got the operation. That's like 13 days solid, though. That's kind of crazy to think about.

I hate this episode already. Okay.

Anyways, some people, it just became their favorite episode.

You know, it's. Oh, my gosh, that's fine. And that makes me feel a little bit better.

It's cool to think about two things. Like, in the sports world, that 300 is, like batting 300. 300 wins for a pitcher is like hall of Fame level. Like, there's a lot of things that 300 is. That's a big number.

300 hours is my least favorite part of this entire six years of episoding. Okay, so we do this from time to time. Well, we've now done this. This will be the third time. And actually we did it at 260 when it was the five year. But really just a reflection, we're going to look back on the last 100 episodes, and as I was looking through them, we did a lot. We had a lot of conversations with a lot of people.

Yes, we did.

And so we're going to talk about the last 100 episodes, some of our favorites. We're going to talk about what's coming in the next 100. And we don't have all that stuff perfectly mapped out, but we're still going to have that conversation. And then some ministry highlights. I think that, you know, for us, it gets easy to. It's just what we do. Like, we have these projects we're working on, these big things that we're having conversations about, and it's easy to just assume that people know about it or that they don't need to know about it. So today we're gonna talk about some of those things. Some of the things we got exciting. Yeah. Okay. So with the first part, let's just look at the past 100 episodes. So 200 to 299. Which episodes stand out to you and why?

Yeah. It is incredible to go back through a hundred and realize that's know over two years ago to get back to the beginning or about two years ago. So if I were to just walk backwards through the ones that stood out to me, I really loved the one we did not too long ago. I always like doing myth busters, partly because just that concept of we see a truth that many in our society believe, and we realize it's not helping or healthy, and we want to kind of go after it in a way that says, let's develop better paradigms. And so the Mythbusters on high frequency of sex equals health or that we're sexually healthy Rodney and Tracy. Right. And just unpacking all the ways that we've been led to believe that more sex equals better marriages or better relationships. And that that's not always true. I just really enjoyed that one and kind of going after that myth, the next one that stood out, episode 281 with our friend Adrian Hickman. That's one of those that I feel should just be like on repeat on my playlist and every few months go back because he's so quotable and there's so many things that he brings clarity to in ways that a lot of people can't. And so if you missed that episode, if you're going to go back and listen to one, go listen to Adrian. And super excited that he's coming to our summit this year. So I don't know if a lot of people know that, but one more reason that you should plan to come to the summit in September, another one that stood out to me and I would say because it was surprising how much I enjoyed it. Episode 255. We interviewed Brandon and Tonya Clark, who are from Covenant Eyes and we're big fans of Covenant Eyes, but I didn't know much about them or their story and was just really impacted by the clarity they had around telling their story. And I think maybe in particular Tonya's side of really articulating from the betrayed spouse how it was making her feel, steps she took, what her recovery had to look like. And then, you know, they've got that lead into their great. I think it's 30 days or their free resource. Their free resource. I just highly recommend that and them because they've got, I think, a very winsome story that is relatable. Thought of episode 243 with our friend Craig Cashewell and the topic of spiritual bypass that I think we unpacked for an hour. But for many of us that grew up in the church is maybe a lifetime of unlearning how we use spiritual language to oftentimes avoid doing the hard work of healing and facing our trauma. And that we've applied some biblical ideas in unhealthy ways to avoid and ignore rather than allow God to bring healing. So that was a powerful conversation. Just a couple more have to do a shout out to episode 226 because for the one and maybe the only time my wife was in the studio with her being a full time teacher, it was a challenge for us to figure out when to get her in. We got her during a summer month and and just so fun to have her enter into my world. I mean, we've told our story many other places, but to get to do that on the Pure Desire podcast, that was a lot of fun. And she walks into a room and the energy changes both for her and for me. So that was fun. Just two more episode 208 with Rosie McKinney. One because of the accent.

Oh my gosh, she's amazing to listen to.

I could listen to her talk all day, but really her content of speaking on behalf of betrayed spouses and the work that they can do to recover and the way she can speak to men and say, maybe it's because of the accent. I think she can say to men in a pretty direct way like, listen, pal, you need to do some work to help your wife because if you don't and she's angry, there's a reason. So just loved kind of her, the way she's forthright, but in a way that makes you want to lean in and do the hard work. And then going back to the very start of the 200s, episode 201 was the first time I believe we had Sheila Rae Gregoire on and got to talk about the great sex rescue, which is still in my mind. Like if you grew up in the church, if you grew up in purity culture, and you've really grown up with kind of a male dominated perspective that men have needs sexually and women have responsibilities to meet those needs. And even, you know, the shades of that that have some truth, but the way it has led into so much unhealthy. I think Sheila Rae Gregoire is the voice that's really challenging that paradigm. And she'll poke you, she'll prod you, she'll maybe say some things you don't agree with, or her approach, you'd say, wow, that seems a little harsh or unfair. But I think when we're changing a paradigm that is as instilled as the one we're talking about, that's the kind of voice you need. Who's not just gonna soft pedal around and go, oh, well, let's no. She's like, this is stupid, this is hurting people, this is unbiblical. And she's got a lot of humor and fun. And so that introduction to Sheila Ra and maybe it's because of how that book helped me even, you know, eight, nine years into recovery and in a very healthy marriage to still see, wow, there are echoes of my upbringing that I've never really thought through, that I'm perpetuating or that I'm stuck in. And so I'm. I don't say this lightly when I say if that's your background too, and you haven't read that book, you need to.

Yeah.

And that doesn't mean you need the whole book, but I know there will be pieces. You go, oh, yeah, I've never thought of it from that angle. So. I loved that episode for all those reasons.

Yeah, you took a few of mine. But I will say we had. I think it was 204, 222 and 251. We had Sheila on. And so we. In a hundred episodes, we had her on three times, which was awesome.

251 was with Keith. With her husband.

Yeah. So we did. The first one we did with her was the Great Sex Rescue. And then the second one was rescuing marriages from porn. And then the third one was with her husband. And then she wrote the Good Girl's Guide to Great Sex. And then her and Keith, her husband, wrote the Good Guys Guide to Great Sex. Those two going together. And yeah, I agree. She just, like, she pulls no punches. She is willing to just say it how it is. And what I love about her is it's not just her opinion. It's a lot of research that she has done as well. And so it's based on actual factual evidence that, you know, this has caused so much damage. I also said spiritual bypass with Craig Cashewell. I. It's funny. This is a way I've heard just a friend recently say this to me about someone else, but I feel this way toward. Toward Craig that Just an unbelievable amount of affection toward him. I don't know how else to explain it. Like, he just seems like a kindred spirit and was so grateful to meet him at our ITAP training for the PSAP certification. And our time with him was awesome. And then Adrian. That should be on the top of everyone's list. Let's be honest. That episode with Adrian Hickman. 281. Okay. Two other ones I had were. And this is just a recent one, but we had Randy Alcorn, like the Randy Alcorn come in, sit where I'm sitting right this second. And he talked to us about moral failings in the Church. And 297 was that episode. And I just loved. I love Randy. I've gotten to know him a little bit personally through. We actually go to the same church. So I've gotten some connection there. But admire him as a writer and a thinker, but really just appreciate his perspective on. I think one of the biggest issues right now in the church is the moral failure of leadership. So, yeah, that was a good one.

And probably the first time we had a. I mean, I think a lot of these guests in their realm are big names, but the first time they were in the studio with us and.

Not just on the screen, and that amplified it.

So that was fun. Like, even thinking through, man, if someone was open to it, maybe more often we should take the time to say, hey, if you're open to flying in, we'll fly in. Because of not only having Randy in the episode, but him being around our office just a little bit and saying hi to people and it's like, totally, man. This is cool, that connection. So, yeah, I loved that he actually was in the room with us.

Well, and just thinking about that, two people who I've really valued. We had Nancy Pearcey, the episode before that, 296, who wrote the book Love Thy Body, which was like world altering for me. And so that one was great. But then I think, honestly my favorite is the series we did on the Pure Desire Foundations 287 to 290. That series of episodes, we really got to flesh out the foundational pieces or aspects to what we do. And we get a lot of questions about that. Are we biblical enough? What about the clinical stuff? You know, why is groups, what we do and then how we take that family systems approach. Those episodes, I feel like were, you know, terrible analogy here, but really foundational of what we do. And I think that it's also an episode. Those series are going to be episodes that answer a lot of questions for people moving forward. And so I'm sort of sorry that it took us so long, but I'm also glad that we finally have it out there. So those are my favorites.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting a story about that Nancy Pearcey episode. I was really enjoyed it as well. And when I went home that day, was just talking to my wife and the kids that were around about the episode, and my two teenage daughters happened to be in the room. And I was kind of sharing some of Nancy's approach, particularly about topics like transgenderism and same sex relationships and a fundamentally different way of approaching it versus right and wrong or good and bad. But looking at that, my body is made a certain way and even all the way down. One of the things she talked about at the cellular level, male and femaleness is expressed and that when we honor that and honor our body, we live this full life. And it was very interesting with my teenage daughters to kind of see them turn onto that to say, oh, that's a unique way or a different way of talking about it. Because I think in their world of high school and social media, it is all, it's just conflict and it's like, well, you either accept people or you hate them. And I think Nancy just kind of took that whole conversation of do I accept someone or hate them and turned it on its head to say, well, let's change the approach. It's more, what is my body saying? And how can I just love my body and agree with it? And for a teenager too, I think that concept of love your body, I mean, outside of Nancy Pearcey talking about it, it really connects with teenage culture because there is kind of a lot of that self affirmation, self care and the discontinuity for. And I could see it in my teenage daughter's brains of like, oh, if people on the one hand are saying, oh, you need to love yourself and care for yourself, but you're in a war with your own body, how is that even possible? I just saw a lot of avenues of conversation there for the young generation to talk about. Hey, let's take something that you already do value to love yourself and love your body and apply it to our sexuality and say, would this maybe be a better way to live? And so it's just cool to see our podcast have a practical application, even for my teenage daughters.

Yeah, totally. Absolutely.

Well, we've had a lot of guests. We've had a lot of PD guests and maybe you'll notice we didn't bring up as many of them because those are people we get to talk to all the time. I think it is those who stand out because it's a one time conversation. But as we look at the future, you know, the next hundred episodes or the next 300 episodes, the next 300 hours, trying to get the math, 10,000 hours. However many were still doing the math on that. Do we have any hopes or dreams for the podcast moving forward? In terms of guest series, what are some things on the radar for you, Trevor? And I would say to our listeners, much of the episode content is driven by Trevor. I don't know if some people know that, that he's kind of the brains behind where we go next. And certainly we collaborate on a lot of topics and themes. But week in and week out, the one who's kind of masterminding what ends up making it on the microphone is Mr. Trevor Windsor. So, Trevor, what do you see on the radar? What are you hearing? What are you thinking about?

Yeah. Okay. So I've got a few different things and I wrote a couple of them down. One is we continue to do. We've had kind of a yearly rhythm of doing episodes where Ashley Jameson and Heather Kolb do a women's takeover. And so.

Women's takeover. Yep.

We're recording those here shortly. And so they'll have a string of four episodes. And I would just say even off of that, there is an idea that we've had and we've even sent out surveys to listeners about this that potentially going down the road of having a seasonal podcast, specifically with Ashley and Heather, where meaning, like, it's not just going to come every fall per se, but I just mean instead of an episodic every single week podcast, that it'd be something that we would record one season and Release it over 10 to 15 weeks or something like that, where they could really hone in on specific topics. It wouldn't even necessarily just talk from the betrayed partner or even just female sexuality, but could really just make it their own. And so that's kind of an idea that we've been playing around with. We're trying to figure out how to make that happen logistically, but that's one as well. And then a couple other ones. Emmanuel Garraway, who's our church relations specialist, he was on a recent episode, he was like, hey, could we do like a stories of healing, but from the church's perspective. And it's funny, as soon as he said it, I just like, boom, I had the vision. I got it. Like, you don't even need to explain anymore where what we're going to start doing. And I'm not 100% sure when this will happen, but for sure, in the next 100 episodes, start a string of episodes where we'll have church leaders and maybe even group leaders from that church come on the show and talk about what has worked for them. What does implementing Pure Desire resources and creating their own recovery ministry inside their community. What does that look like? And really trying to like mine really the ground of like, what have they done, what has worked, what hasn't, in a way to help other churches who can listen to those episodes and be like, oh yeah, we've had that same issue. Here's how they solved it. Maybe let's us try it. So that's another really cool idea that Emmanuel had. I'm really excited about that one because that really is our heart. I mean, if you've listened to the show at all, you know that that's our heart is to help the local church. And then if I'm just. And I didn't even tell you I was going to say this, but if I'm just, like, dreaming. And we've talked about this being a possibility, and it's something we do want to really do is having. For some of our listeners, you've heard Christianity Today's the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast, which really did a deep dive and exploration of Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church in Seattle and really painted a picture of what happened there. I think for us, we feel like we're uniquely gifted and uniquely educated in this area where we could look at moral failings in the church and not even a deep dive on just one particular leader, but doing more of a journalistic, exploratory type of conversation over a season or two of podcasts, where we could do a lot of research and have a lot of conversations with people who have been a part of churches where moral failing has happened, have been victims involved in that, and really find a way to produce this where it reaches so many more people and so many more churches, because this continues to happen whether you're aware of Pure Desire or not. And really a way that we can help get the message of pure desire out there. So that's another big one. That would be a ton of work. But just some ideas we've been kicking around.

Yeah. And I like the way that those all apply, connect to our values at Pure Desire. You know, we want to be a ministry that continues to sound this voice, to say, this is not a men's issue. This is a people problem. And in some ways, we're a little unique for a lot of recovery ministries because we don't focus one or the other. We try to say, yes, we're here to help people, but the reality is, Trevor, you and I are both dudes, and we can't change that fact. And we're the podcast hosts. So there will tend to be more of a male perspective, even though we have great female guests on and cover that. To have opportunity for more women's voices, for Heather and Ashley to kind of have that role. I think it's not to create a competing product in any way, but it's to emphasize we're here for all people. And I think for some women to hear women sharing and being the hosts would be more impactful. And so I love that it connects to that value, that we're here to help couples heal. Men and women. Women can struggle. Men can struggle. Women can be Betrayed men can be betrayed. So Ashley and Heather are respected voices, and I know people would love hearing that and the stories of the church. You know, that's our value, that we're here for the local church, that at the end of the day, the ultimate success is when a church is owning this problem and recovery solution for themselves. And we've just been the coach that helps them get there. And so I think for a lot of churches, they maybe have a desire, but right now they're not doing much of anything. And if you've not been doing much of anything, it can be very hard to know how do I go from 0 to 60? And so to hear other stories tell their journey, I think would be very, very impactful. And then just looking at the culture of leadership in our country, I think that's the heart of this moral failings is not to be, like, sensationalized. And, well, listen. Listen to what this leader did or have you heard this story? I mean, that's, you know, in other areas of our world is maybe what gets clicks and views, but that's not what we're after. We really want to address to say if the church is going to get better long term and if we're going to see these stories stop happening, we need to address the culture that's creating it. We can't just think, as I brought up on a lot of podcasts, that, well, if we just get better leaders and those bad leaders that did those bad things go away, we'll be fine. It's like, no. Some of what we're seeing is a byproduct of the culture we've created where leaders at an early age aren't given permission to be real. They're not allowed to be human beings. In process, there are safe areas that they can say, hey, boy, I need help with my spending, or I need help with my marriage and church. Oh, we're going to support you. And we're so glad our pastor is getting healthy. But for the average pastor, if they raise their hand and say, I've got sexual issues, I've got porn issues, I've got temptations and desires I don't know what to do with, they feel like I raise that hand and ask for help, the church says, oh, go away. You must not be fit for ministry. And I get that we've got to have qualifications for ministry. But I just think what we're speaking to as a culture that pastors and leaders aren't allowed to be real. And by the time the stories come out, it's been 20, 30 years in the making. And I'm not in any way excusing, justifying, or rationalizing what they end up doing. Because the stories that we all hear are horrible and they're heartbreaking and it's sad. It's like, why did that have to happen? And we get so focused on the moment of exposure, maybe that we miss the 25 year journey that led to it. And we want to ask the question, what could we do as a church culture to change that trajectory at the beginning? And that would be really the point of that. So, yeah, it's on our radar when we get there. We haven't committed to a date or time, but I think we're both moving in that direction. The couple other things that I would just add is to say we're going to keep having guests. We're going to keep having people that hit our radar. And we go, man, that's a voice we want to hear from. And we know for some of you, you don't love every voice we pick because you have issues with this aspect of their theology or that way they say something or a tweet. You saw they expressed this view like they were on the Pure Desire podcast. I can't believe that. And I just want to remind everyone, like, we don't bring someone on because we agree with them 100%. And if that was the case, we'd have, like, nobody on. I mean, Trevor and I wouldn't be on together because we don't agree on everything 100%. But it's because we see a dynamic they bring or an aspect to a situation. We're like, man, that's something we need to wrestle with. And so I hope, listener, that you'll give us grace for those guests that may not be your favorite, because there are some that you're like, oh, I loved that guest. And keep in mind that for other people, the guest you loved was the one that bothered them or there was an aspect of their theology. So we're just, we're just trying to approach this with kind of open hands to say, hey, if I've said it in a lot of churches, if you can agree with the Apostles Creed, we think we can find resonance because at the end of the day, we want the majors to be the majors. And if we disagree on some of the minor points, you know, we'll let that sort itself out later. The other thing I feel like we've committed to is recognizing for many of you, the point at which you start listening to this podcast is the Point of your pain, the point of your crisis. You're looking for hope, you're looking for community. And someone says, well, have you heard the Pure Desire podcast? And so to continue to produce episodes that really land in early recovery, the what do I do if I found pornography on my spouse's phone? What do I do if I'm stuck in the binge purge cycle of looking at pornography and acting out with masturbation? Because I know for many, those are the questions you're asking when you first listen to the podcast. And, yeah, you can search them and find it from three years ago, but we want to keep doing fresh content in that area so that when people tune in or when you have a friend going through crisis, you're like, oh, pure Desire just did a podcast I think would be perfect for you. And we know that that's a lot of the ways this podcast grows is because you, our listener, are saying to a friend, a family member, a church member, like, I just heard this on the Pure Desire podcast, go and listen to this episode. So I think making sure that we have content that lands in that early recovery is something we're committed to.

Yeah, absolutely. I am excited about the new guests that we're gonna have on. And I just. It's funny, I took kind of like a survey, and I was talking to my wife about this. Like, we've gotten to talk to Josh McDowell. We've gotten to talk to Stephanie Carnes. We've gotten to talk to Randy Alcorn, Nancy Pearcey, Preston Sprinkle. Like, these are people that, like, I've known about, you know. Cause I grew up in the church for a while now. And it's like, wait, what? Like, we had conversations with them. We got to talk to them. Like, they liked our stuff for, like.

It'S helpful to remember that because we've had other big names that I won't say that have never replied to us or we heard no or we heard later. And it's been four years. And when we're still hearing later, so it's good to be reminded that there were others that said, yes. Oh, pray for Nick.

Pray for Nick. And the bitterness that's still there. No, for sure. And I mean, like, we'll continue.

Not good enough. That old trauma voice.

No, we'll have those conversations, and we'll continue to have those people we feel like can really help further the conversation. And one of the reflections I've just had, and I've heard this recently, too, from people about the show is just how conversational and natural it is that we talk about this stuff, for us, it's second nature. It's what we do for our job. But that's what's so helpful, is that there's just an avenue or a channel that talks about this stuff as normal as it is or as it should be. And so we're gonna continue to find people that help in that conversation, whether we agree with everything or not. For sure. So, okay, so every 100 episodes. And what's cool, too, you've done this at past Pure Desire Summit events where you have like a sit down with the executive director and you kind of give like a vision for the year to come. But over the last 100 episodes, so we're talking over, you know, almost a couple of years. What are some recent big projects that we've had, recent highlights that we want to remind people of? And then what are some of the things that are coming in the future for Pure Desire as a ministry? Looking ahead to the next couple years.

Yeah. So when will people be listening to this live time? Is this like, late March?

No, it's April.

April. Okay. Because I want to ground it, like, not talk about something that's still coming for us. But by the time this is spoiler.

Alert, we prerecord these.

No, honestly, between when we're recording and this one coming out, I don't think there will be a big project released. One thing that will have happened, myself and another of our speaking team member, Rodney Wright, are traveling to Poland or will have been in Poland to help a group there launch a Pure Desire ministry in Poland. And that trip was made possible by a donor who's covered the whole amount. And so we're able to go to them just as a gift and say we want to help connect with churches and leaders and talk about why Pure Desire is different and how it can help your church. And so along those lines, I would just ask people to pray for the international reach of Pure Desire because we do hear so frequently that the resources are limited to the United States. You get into another language and the resources might literally be zero. There may be nothing in their language. And we're trying to figure out how to catalyze that in other languages. But quite frankly, we don't have a great paradigm. We don't have the people, resources on our team to make that happen in languages that, you know. I mean, maybe outside of Spanish, there's some stuff we're working on in Spanish, but outside of that, like, we don't know how to make that happen. And we're not like, you know, Josh McDowell has books in hundreds of languages now, and that's largely because of connections with a publisher and international publishing. And that's not really how Pure Desire publishes our books. And so we, we don't have a consistent rhythm of getting into those languages. And we're just asking God to help us because we really believe that's what needs to happen. But it's still a slow process. So pray for Poland because it's a new country that we're opening the doors in, but pray for all the other countries that God would lead us into that. You know, the big projects that have happened, you know, you think of the last two years, having the group leader training as a streaming tool on our website that can equip group leaders all over the country and all over the world to lead effective groups is less than a year ago now. So good to have out there. Yeah. And having reworked Betrayal and Beyond to be more partner sensitive, to be at a place that is more aligned with what a spouse needs to hear in that first nine months to a year and not trying to cover the whole two to five year process in one workbook, I think that's a significant step forward. So those are the big things that come to mind. But where we're headed, we are really excited to have a second workbook for men as a follow up to the Seven Pillars that will be coming out soon and we don't have a release date, but I would say with a high degree of confidence that for men that have been through Seven Pillars by the fall, you could use a second workbook called the Compassionate Warrior to take men through. It would not be a starting point. So you would still use Seven Pillars for that. It would be the next workbook after that to take men to another level of healing. And I'll say on the women's side, there will be a. Because of what we've done with Betrayal and beyond making it really more, let's help you through the initial crisis and trauma. There will be a follow up to that coming, although that won't be this year. So that's, that's more of a future project. Other things that are coming down the road very soon. If you've listened to the podcast or been around Pure Desire the last year or so, you know that we're partnering with a motion film coming out called Undefiled. And then our role is to be the follow up video resource. And so we think by the summer that film will come out. So our video resource is tied to the film. And the film, as some people may know, is tied to distribution and rights. And there's some of those things still being sorted out that pure desire is not involved in at all. But when the film comes out, we'll have this video series that is really, it's even an introduction to our introductions. Like it would be a step before using Sexual Integrity 101 or the Conquer series just to show people this film and then say, hey, we've got a follow up eight week study that if you want to understand more of the themes of the film, of pornography and living life by performance and finding your identity and success and how all this could lead people into sex trafficking and what we do about that, it's just, I think an intriguing starting point and we're looking forward to that coming out sometime soon. You know, then other projects on the radar. Unraveled is our women's resource for those that have sexuality issues, pornography issues, love addiction, anything on the female spectrum of sexuality, we want to put out a version of that that is for college age single women or just young adult women who are single. Like we have Living Free for Men. It would be an equivalent of that for young women. So I think that'd be a great resource. And then we're gearing up and we don't have a timeline on it, but we recognize the need for youth resources and curriculum that isn't just for those who have already identified a struggle and are willing to work on it. Which is what I've said about our workbooks, Top Gun and Behind the Mask. They're great if someone knows they have a problem and is willing to do work on it. Which from the average teenagers I know does not describe very many teenagers. Either they don't think it's that big of a deal, or even if they do, they don't want to do weekly homework because they already have classes and homework and it just kind of lands in that category. So it's shaping some teen material that we feel could be broadly used by a whole youth group and could have some uniqueness for boys, for girls, for men, for women, but would really be a tool to give youth pastors and youth leaders to say, just take all your kids through this because they are growing up in a pornified world with sexual content at their fingertips on their social media that where they're living life, porn is always a click away. And the nature of what they're facing, what it's doing to their brains, is so different than even 15, 20 years ago. And so we want to take a lot of the principles that we know makes pure desire effective and translate them to that youth audience at a way that's proactive. To say, how do I navigate life? How do I learn to have resilience to porn? How do I develop authentic relationships where this isn't a hidden thing. It's something I can talk about and not just talk about, because I do think porn culture for our teens is kind of normalized pornography, that they probably talk about it but don't know what to do about it. There's maybe not the conviction of, oh, I've got to change right now. It's like, well, yeah, doesn't everybody have this come up? It's like, well, yeah, but let's talk about what we do that keeps us healthy, keeps us free. So that is a big project that we're working towards, and it's kind of the timing of some of these other projects that will dictate, when can we get to this one? So those are things that I'm excited about. We have some other really big projects that I'm in the middle of working through that we can't talk about yet. But could. What I would say our focus is we feel really confident that we have solutions that can help the church. What we don't feel confident on is how to help churches become aware of those and have a pathway into them. And so we've got some really big projects with outside groups that could create new open doors that right now we don't have. And so please pray for that. And when I can give specifics, I will. But just to say we're in the middle of some pretty big conversations right now, that's super exciting.

Yeah. I think the only other thing that I would just mention is that we're also prayerfully considering a building for pure desire. I mean, trying to find a place where. Where we can have. You know, right now we're at least in a place that we're just starting to run up against capacity. And, you know, a lot of our donors and people who've been with us over this last year know that that's a push that we're starting to make. But just prayer that the Lord would lead us to a location, a building, some land, something like that, to really help us, because we're trying to build. I mean, the. The hope would be a forever home, but at least somewhere that we have room to grow in, and we'd be there for an extended period of time. But, yeah, I just. I would echo your. The big projects. I'VE gotten to be a part of some of those meetings and there's some really exciting possibilities, but definitely one of them is the future location of Pure Desire where we're going to be. So prayers for that for sure.

Yeah. And that's been a double bind with the building that we run into because we do, you know, we want to stop paying a landlord resources and invest in our future and, and in the ministry and have a space that could accommodate, you know, small conferences, training opportunities. We know the world is more virtual, but that there's still a tremendous value in being in the room with people. And so, you know, for couples graduating from their year of counseling, for couples that want to be trained to kind of take Pure Desire to their part of the world, to being able to bring them in for a few days and have a place to do it would be incredible having enough office space for the staff that will be in office and as we do virtual things, I mean, if anyone ever has visited the Pure Desar offices, they know that we're basically in an office space running this whole podcast and any recordings we do. And it's like, hey, what if we actually had a room that was made to be a studio, right. That had space for it and seriously, soundproofing for it and wasn't. Not all of our listeners probably know that right behind the wall, like three feet behind Trevor is a car company that must schedule people to come in and look to buy cars. And when they do, they often rev the engines. And so there have been podcasts. We've had to stop and just pause till the engine is done revving and they're showing off its literally the wall shakes sometimes. I hope they buy that car and get it out of that room so that we can go back to our ministry. So all of that, those are reasons we're looking at, hey, we want a space that we can call our own. But when you think of it being our forever home, or at least long term, that starts to get to some size and square footage that it's expensive and real estate right now is not cheap and buildings are not cheap. And so we're just. I tell people and they're like, what kind of building do you want? I'm like, I want the building that God has for us. And I think he has something. And we don't know what it looks like or how big it is, but I think if we only look at, well, here's what we can afford. The truth is what we can reasonably afford and think that, you know, with some Donor help we could get into probably wouldn't fit for very long. Because if God continues to use pure desire and we grow, we fill it up. And we don't want to go somewhere that in three years, like, well, glad we bought this building. Now we need to sell it and find something else. We really want a place that we could be for decades, but the price tag on that is really prohibitive. So we're praying that God would lead us. I'm not immune to having a big faith goal, but I don't want to just throw a number out there or a size.

Yeah.

Because we come up with it. So that's where we're just asking God to lead us. And I think whatever that is, you know, our time frame is probably in about two years is. Would be the goal to be in that new location. So we do have some time, but, you know, you can't wait till the month before and then find it. Especially if we decide to build something, because that's a long, long process. So if that's what God has for us, you know, really this year, we'd probably need to find where's that property? What's the building look like? So we're feeling that, like I said, double bind. And as people know, double binds can be paralyzing. And I think we don't feel paralyzed. I'd say we feel like we're just in a season of discernment and of waiting on God for some of that clarity. That can be hard for donors or others who want specifics. But I think for this season, it's just where we are because we don't want to get into something that's going to prohibit ministry because we've invested too much in a physical location. And I think we've all seen churches that. That happens as they build the big, beautiful building, but then they can't pay their staff and they're laying people off and it doesn't pan out the way they expected. I mean, that's the last thing we want is to be doing ministry to try to afford a building. So just a little insight in the kind of stuff we're thinking through. But it's exciting to believe that God has a future for pure desire. And we need to think big because we know the problem is big. And that's why we're motivated that way, is we want to just keep growing to help more people. And we think a location could be part of that.

And I would just say another huge blessing we've been able to experience. And we know that it's the Lord growing. Our ministry is staff growth. I mean, that's part of the reason why we're looking for a building as well, is, you know, the groups team has added two new people. My department, Marketing Communications, has added two new people. We're hiring new clinicians. Like, it's just, we are growing, and it's awesome to see the Lord bless that. But also, that creates, you know, problems, capacity issues. Right. So.

And, you know, we just had an organizational meeting that I called this week because, like, we've got one. We don't have hardly any storage in this building, but we have an area that became a de facto kind of junk drawer. And it's like, okay, if this keeps growing, we're all going to regret it. So let's come up with a plan. But the challenge, like, the plan is, well, where can it go? There's nowhere to put it.

Whose office is this going in? Basically?

What corner can this get shoved in? So that's kind of where we're at. And it's. It's. Yeah, it's a good problem to have because it means, well, we need this space for a desk. We need this space for staff. It's exciting.

It is.

We like, we like those problems.

Yeah. We're excited about what the Lord's gonna do, for sure. Yeah. And I know that people know that you started this episode, but I'll just. I'll conclude it. I'll take over here. But it has been genuinely. And people continue to ask me this question, like, you know, what are. What are things you're working on? Like, what's. What's stuff that you're passionate about that you get to do for work? And it continues to be the podcast. Like, I continually say, this is my favorite thing that I get to do. And a lot of it is, yeah, because, you know, it's a way to be. You know, you mentioned coming up with the topics and ideas and writing the questions. Like, that's super fun for me to craft. It's almost like I get to direct, you know, or produce because, you know, I'm pretty sure in, like, a fantasy world or if we were in the multiverse, there'd be another version of me that's directing movies or something. But that has been super fun. But I just love being able to have these conversations and to meet really interesting, cool people that have a lot of stuff to help us and benefit us. And I know I'll speak for me on this. I gain a lot from the podcast. I think that if you were to look at my development, even understanding of this topic in this area, A lot of it can be tied to the conversations we've had. So I just.

Yeah, it's kind of like when you preach regularly, if you're doing it right, you're preaching to yourself first. And I think when we do the podcast, I would share that, that, yeah, we get to put these out in the world to help people, but we have the conversations first. You know, it's like when I brought up Sheila Ray Gregoire's I learned from her first. It wasn't just that she was a great guest. It's that man that spoke to me. And so I echo like, this is a big part of our growth because we're hearing new ideas, we're asking people their opinion, and it just forms us. And so if you listener feel like it's formed, you know, that that's. We're in that together. We're all being formed by this process, these guests and these conversations.

Yeah. So here' another 300. And here's to finally getting to 10,000 hours. When we get to the 10,000th episode.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

If you're watching this, you can see how red my cheeks are of embarrassment. But either way, Nick, I love getting to do this with you. And thanks for being with me for man. Missed a lot of episodes.

Appreciate it. Love you too. It's a good time.

Yeah. And wherever you're at on your journey, pure desire is here to help you take back your life from a wanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. If you or someone you know needs recovery and healing, go to PureDesire.org and begin the journey today. If you like this episode or a fan of the podcast, please share it with others. Make sure you check out the full episode up on YouTube as well. You will see we have a new sign in the studio that says, never stop being healthy.

Sam.