302 - Developing Personal Promises

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma.

What is up?

I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 302 of the Pure Desire Podcast. You're joining me, as always, is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Remember who you are.

All right? You don't know this. Okay.

So.

That'S from Black Panther. Correct. That is the Queen Mother and I believe is the most overdone line in both of the movies. Have you seen the newest one?

Yeah.

Okay. Did you like the newest one?

It was okay.

Yeah.

It didn't particularly grab me, but it's entertaining.

My least favorite part of the movie was spoiler alert, by the way, if you haven't seen Black Panther Wakanda Forever, which, if you haven't, it's fine.

It's been out, like, six months at this point.

Yeah, I mean, like, that's on you. If you wanted to see it and didn't. It's also on Disney plus, which costs, like, $7, so you could just do that anyways. No more judgment there. But when Shuri and Neymar are fighting and then the mom shows up, I think that movie would have been so much better if Shuri just would have killed him. I think that that's. You could have brought him back. The multiverse is a thing. But that was my least favorite part of the movie. It's like, we had to have that arbitrary, like, the mom calling out identity and remind. I don't know. That wasn't my favorite part. I like your intro because of where we're going, but I just. I don't know. I felt like I needed to share that.

Yeah. Well, I'm sorry that impacted you so much. I think there is. In the American Hero genre, there is the need for the hero to always be, in the end, gracious or to have room for. To leave room for redemption, which is often what makes movies so interesting, because the bad guy is often given a chance to come back again and again and again. But I think that's interesting the way I think, in our human consciousness of, like, this. This ideal that. That good people should, in the end, extend grace, even to people that don't deserve it, you know, and asking that question, like, where do we come? Where does that come from? Of course, I would say that that's the thumbprint of God on us and as his creation, that we just, I think, intuitively feel like, don't repay evil for evil. That if you can. If you can spare, if you can, redeem that that's what you should try to do.

Yeah.

Well, not that that has anything to do with today's episode, particularly.

Not a thing. Well, maybe a little bit, but not a lot. Okay. So we had Heather Kolb, our content manager, on again, and we. This is going back, like, all the way. Like, way, way, way Back to episode 15. We did an episode on personal promises. And so we're circling back to that, and today we're looking at how do we develop personal promises.

Yeah. Did we do that first one with Dr. Ted or who was the guest?

Oh, man.

Do you recall after. You know, it's like five years.

I can. Yeah, I can look while you're.

Yeah, yeah. You know, the intro. Remember who you are. I think is what we're really discussing today, that. That in life, when you start to get under this battle that we have with unwanted behaviors, whether it's pornography or food, gambling, drugs, alcohol, workaholism, shopping, like, whatever kind of is our thing that we run to, we understand or we come to realize that underneath it, what's driving the behavior are these lies that we listen to about our value, worth, and identity. And so because we don't have healthy ways to deal with those lies or what we believe, we run to things that provide an artificial sense of relief or in a false way, make us feel what we think we need to feel. You know, as I've shared in my story, that if I feel worthless, pornography gives the illusion of worth, value, and desirability. So when you unpack that, well, then you kind of ask the question, well, how do I replace these messages? How do I address the lies that I listen to? And more importantly, how do I hear truth about who I am? And so that in the moment when there is a battle going on, like in Black Panther, when there's a battle going on and things are against me and it maybe even feels like I'm losing, what do I need to remember who I am? The truth of who God says I am? And that it's not just quoting a verse, although it might be quoting a verse, but that there's some depth of experience to why that verse, for me, is God's truth about who I am. And so we unpack it in this episode. If you've heard of personal promises before and haven't totally understood it, you've gone through it, maybe in your Seven Pillars book or other pure desire, resource, and you're like, I don't really grasp that. I think today's conversation will help you move further down the road towards really embracing your personal promises.

Yeah. Also just deep cut. It was Brian Roberts that we did that episode with.

That's going old school.

That's going old.

So.

Yep, that's right. Okay. Before we get to it. And you brought up seven pillars already. And I know that these are the personal promises are part of the recovery journey and they're so important and that's, I mean, the reason why we're even having an episode. And two of the resources that I know that these get fleshed out in or that these are important in are seven Pillars of Freedom and Unraveled. And so there are two resources. Seven Pillars of Freedom for Men and Unraveled for Women. So let's just talk about those two groups, the experiences that people will go through in a pure desire recovery group.

Yeah, yeah. Two workbooks with the same purpose or outcome of lasting freedom and transformation, but one route for men, one route for women. Seven Pillars being written by Dr. Ted Roberts and Harry Flanagan. Four men addressed to Men and Unraveled being written by our team of women of Heather Cole, Ben Ashley Jameson and Anna Phillipson. And so men encouraging men, Women for Women. But if you've never been in one of those groups and you're wondering like, well, how is this any different than all the other stuff I've tried or I've had a counselor, what does this really do for me? I think a lot of what we talk about is what I would say about those workbooks. It's going to take you into your story and, and into your whole story and not just look at the bad behavior and where did it start, but going deeper than that of looking at where did your sense of identity come from? What are the lies that trauma implanted in your thinking along the way and how has that impacted the way you make decisions? And as we expose those, then how do we learn new healthy rhythms that become that new normal and transform us for a lifetime of good? And when we start to talk that way, you realize, wow, that's probably going to be a process that's not going to happen easily, like in a group, you know, one or two meetings like that probably has a lot of dimensions to it, a lot of layers. And I would say yes. And that's why these groups are not short. They're an eight or nine month experience. But it is over the course of those months that you're learning new truths and more importantly, living them out in a way that becomes sustainable for the long haul. And so if you've been listening to the podcast or you're maybe tuning in for the first time and you've been on the fence about do I really need group and or I don't think my struggle is that big of a deal. I've told people all the time, if you can use your struggle, even if to you it's minute, if you can use it as an excuse to get into one of these groups, the insights you're going to get about your story and what life could look like for you is going to be worth it. And so if I can give you that encouragement, go for it, do it. It's more than you expect and the outcome I think is better than you believe. And we'd love to have you walk through one of those groups.

Absolutely.

So.

So if you are a man looking to join a seven pillars group, just go to PureDesire.org excuse me, seven the word seven pillars, seven dash pillars. And then if you're a woman wanting to go through unravel just puredesire.org unraveled. Okay. Subscribe to the podcast and I know I say it all the time, but it means a lot on iTunes. We're at 497. I'd like to see more. Also give us a rating review. Also watch this full episode up on YouTube if you'd like to. You just search Pure Desire Ministries and then you can follow us on social mediauredesirepdmi on all the platforms. And with that, here's our conversation with Heather Kolb on developing personal promises. All right, Heather, welcome back. Thanks for being here.

Thank you. Thanks for inviting me back for this topic.

Yeah. You were just explaining that you're not super excited about this topic because when we talk about personal promises, we talk about things that mean a lot to us. And you said you might shed your one tear for the month. So anyways, people who don't know Heather. Okay, so some people know you're my aunt. I've known you a long time.

You.

And if that's like blowing people, I just wanna pause for a second. If that's blowing someone's mind, you're welcome. I think you said that growing up all the time, like you hurt my feeling. Like specifically singular one feeling. So she. Nick, she's been saying that for decades.

I've heard you tell the story before.

Not like that. You have it. Wow.

Pretty much. Can we start? Okay, so today we've done this over 300 times. Trevor. We've had Heather on a lot.

Moving on.

I've heard the story today.

We're I that brought that on myself today. We're revisiting a topic that we have talked about at length, but it was back in episode 15, which that was many, many moons ago. And so we're talking about personal promises. Sometimes they are affectionately. That's the word I would use, referred to as prophetic promises. That's how Dr. Ted originally referred to them. So depending on whatever language you're most comfortable with, either works for us, personal or prophetic promises. So we're going to be looking at this, and just for the conversation today, we will be using the language personal promise. So let's just establish this up front for maybe people who are new to this. This is a tool that we use in our resources. But what is a personal promise?

So I remember the first time that I ever heard this from Dr. Ted at a conference where he was explaining this to the audience. And basically he said that this is a time where we encounter God, that it is an experience that we have with God through the Holy Spirit, where God is saying something to us personally about us and really about the way that he sees us. So it's definitely tied to our identity and really the way we use it, which we'll talk about more. But it's kind of all of these things that are wrapped up in this experience with God. Does that make sense? So I'm just going to stop with that for right now.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

I think sometimes when we hear the word promise, we think of it like a gift or something. God has promised to give us something someone else will give us. I do want to unpack that word a little bit that we're not speaking of promise like something coming down the road, but more an assurance, maybe a certainty of who we are. I always go into those words of our value, worth and identity is particularly what's at stake and what we've talked about so much on podcasts on the flip side of the voice of shame, the voice of the enemy, the voice of trauma, the voice of just lies, deception. What the enemy tries to tell us always goes back to those core issues of our value, worth and identity. And so a personal promise. Personal, obviously it's to us, but that promise of God speaking into those areas, a guarantee, an assurance, something we can rest in. This is who I am. And so that's sort of a promise of his presence and his goodness and the value he sees of us, not just like a future thing that he's promised to give us in eternity. So it's very present, it's very here and now in terms of who we are, but typically associated with, as Heather was saying, an experience that we've had in our past, something that we. We can look back on and remember a situation, a moment, an encounter. And we'll talk in this episode that those encounters with God that we remember can be as varied as night and day. There's no particular thing we're talking about, but just an instance where we'd say there was something about that moment that felt very real in terms of my relationship with God. And then looking into that moment to say, what does that mean? Communicate about who I am before Christ, how God sees me. And that's what we're going to unpack today.

Yeah. The only other thing I would add is just my way of understanding it is. It's a biblical truth that's either fused with a personal experience or reinforced by a personal experience. And just to give an example. So, you know, maybe people might be struggling with it already is. I remember, and I've told this story before, but I was at a Young Life camp, and a lot of non believers from another country were there for the camp. They had just heard about sin. They had just heard the gospel. And we were asked to go outside and reflect and just sit out. This was at Washington Family Ranch. It's beautiful, you know, out there. We go out and we're all sitting down. We're supposed to be quiet for 15 minutes. And literally right as people were walking out, sheet lightning is happening up in the sky. And if you've ever seen sheet lightning, it's beautiful, it's kind of scary, but also this kind of glorious thing. And I remember in that moment, hearing the words of the Lord in Job, where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Where were you? And so for me, it was seeing God's power on display that was reinforcing a truth that I knew to be true from scripture, that God is powerful and he did create the world and the entire universe. So that's just a brief example maybe for someone. So for me, I can look back to your point. I can look back on that and remind myself, okay, I experienced God's power and his majesty in that moment, and I know it's supported by scripture.

So how would we recommend someone uses personal promises? What role do they play in the recovery and healing journey?

So I really like this question, and I think, Nick, you kind of touched on this already. But the way that it's always been explained was that our personal promises are something that. That we end up using as kind of a weapon or a Defense against the enemy. Because all of those experiences that we had in the past that probably created like a negative self perception or a negative core belief about ourselves. When we experience this encounter with God and this personal promise that he gives us that really is about who we are in Christ, it's about our identity that then we can use that when the enemy is picking on us or when we're going through hard, because we all have hard our entire lives, right. But that we can use those to empower us to fight back and to tell the enemy, you know what? This is not who I am. This is not, you know, this is not what I believe about myself. Because God says, this is who I am. This is. You know what I mean? So it really is, if you use it like. And it does take practice, I think. But it can be a very empowering, you know, powerful way that we take hold of who we are in Christ, who God says we are, specifically that he created us to be. You know, And I have found it very useful in my life and I'll share some examples later.

But yeah, it's just what came to mind for me was just it's a way to battle the lies that we hear. You know, you hear in scripture that Satan is the father of lies. You think of Ephesians 6, the fiery darts that are coming our direction. And you know, there's some authors that have talked about this, that one of the primary, at least in America, one of the primary ways that Satan does spiritual warfare is through lies, is through making us believe things. And it's Genesis 3 all over again. Right? It's just tweaking the truth to make us believe a lie about ourselves or about the Lord. And so it's something you can go back to even at a daily point. Right. And it could be sometimes like an hourly thing that it's a truth that you can go back to to battle those lies. And really in that sense, they're an anchor of truth. And that's the way I would. That's. So you're battling lies with an anchor of truth you can go back to because it's been reinforced, you know, that one time or multiple times, you know, over your lifetime.

Yeah. To me, it's the clearest example of how we live out Romans 12:2 that talks about being transformed, lasting change, living in a new way, being a new person. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Not by behaving differently, not just by making different choices, but that renewing of the mind. And I think many of us have Known that verse for ages and haven't really thought about, well, how does that actually happen? What. What needs to be renewed? And I think that's what you guys are hitting on, is that there are so many lies we've learned to listen to that have become almost like the elevator music of our life. The subconscious thought processes we go through that we have inherently kind of embraced something like, yeah, I'm just. I'm in the way. I'm shameful. I'm worthless. I'll never be good enough. And we've talked about in a lot of your sessions, Heather, at events we do that. The way those lies are often in the limbic part of our brain, meaning they've been associated in our past because of how they came through trauma or something painful we went through. The lie came in a time where our brain was learning and saying, I need to protect myself. I need to be safe. So in order to be safe, I need to not ever get into that experience again. And then attached to that experience is some kind of lie about our value, worth, or identity. And. And why I bring that up is because we don't have to consciously rehearse those old memories to be listening to that lie. That's part of how our limbic brain works is because it's the survival brain. Our brain just holds onto it there and helps us never forget so that we stay safe. But unfortunately, sin and Satan hijack that system in the brain that God created for our safety and actually uses it to keep us from the thriving life that God has for us. So going back to Romans 12:2, then, if we're going to be transformed in our life, we have to not only address what those old lies are, where they come from, what those painful experiences are, but then have positive experiences with God and others that have communicated new truths. And that's what we're. What we're renewing. So when we put all that together, I just think we see the power that this isn't just a nice thing. It's not just a good tool to have in your back pocket. It's really crucial to the lasting change that we talk about and why this is more than behavior management. Because you are directly replacing lies that for many of us, we've lived with for decades with God's truth. And that will only happen if we're routinely coming back to that truth and rehearsing it in an extent and to a degree that then can overcome or overwrite those negative lies that have been written there from our past.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so Looking at developing personal promises. What makes a personal promise effective or not effective?

So this is an interesting question because most of my experience has been where they have been very effective. But sometimes the way they come about can be different and unique. Even mine have been all kind of different one time, and I'll just share one of my experiences that one time, and this was when I was a young adult where, you know, where you used to have phones that were in your house that had a landline.

Curly cord.

Yeah, that's the cord. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So I was in my mid-20s, and when I was younger, I had been diagnosed with a chronic disease. And so I always have to take medication and I always have to have labs. And so I'm getting ready to go out the door to Bible study, and the phone rings, and I knew that I shouldn't have answered the phone, but I answered the phone and. And it was my doctor's office saying, you know what? Your labs this last time, they were really bad. You're showing signs of liver and kidney damage. We need you to come back in. We need to make an appointment. And it was all of this urgency, and I really didn't have time to deal with that because I was going somewhere. But it really was this moment where I was just devastated, because when you're in your mid-20s, you never imagine that you're ever going to get news like that. And then what does this look like for the future? And so anyway, I go to Bible study and my mind is just, you know, running, running, right? It's just in. And it's in this space that I don't know if I've ever actually been before. And so I'm kind of like zoning and somebody is reading scripture in Philippians, and it gets to Philippians 1:6, and it just breaks me. I mean, it breaks me, but at the same time, I feel just this peace and this warmth, like my body just got hot. And it was the one, the scripture that says, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it out to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. And in that moment, I felt God saying, you know what? I got you. I got you. I know what's coming for you, and I got you. And I think that. That that's probably the only time that I ever had such a close experience that this thing happened a half an hour before, and God was just right there to meet me, exactly where I was at, and to reassure me that he has a plan, you know, that he knows what this is doing to me, but yet he has a different plan for my life. And so if you could even imagine having this, you know, this conflict in your own brain, saying, okay, these horrible things are happening, and God stepping in right there and saying, it's gonna be okay, I got you. And so that was probably, I think that that was probably my first experience where I actually encountered God in such an amazing way.

It's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome story. And I think you brought up in your example several of the things that I would say. And to maybe start with what makes a personal promise. Not effective. If it's just a verse, if we just, oh, I love this verse. Like for you, Heather, if it was just Philippians 1:6, I mean, that's a great verse. But if it was only a verse that you read once and so you've remembered it, that's not nearly as powerful as what you attach it to as a story, a memory, an experience. And then something that added that personal level of this wasn't just a verse from the Bible. God was speaking it to me. And in his voice I heard something about who I am that made it a lot more powerful. And so it's not just a favorite verse, it's a memory. It's an experience and encounter. And another thing I think that keeps it from being effective. If we just did it one time in group, we wrote it down and maybe forgot even what it was and then moved on, it really is calling it to mind. It's, I think, a very biblical ideal there of meditation for some people. It's like, what do I meditate on? I'd say, well, meditate on those experiences where God was real to you. God was speaking something real to you that was personal, that it attached to His Word. And calling that to mind is a very significant form of transformation, of renewing the mind. And so if we wrote it down once and can't even remember what they are, that's very ineffective. It's that calling to mind, entering back into the emotion that makes them effective. And I would just add this here too. I think for many people when we start talking about personal promises and we're using this phrase, an encounter with God, some people's initial gut reaction is just why I've never encountered God, especially if they grew up in a, you know, non charismatic and maybe a more traditional like, you know, we just, we hear the preaching of the Word and we go home and we, we do our best to live good lives. This idea of like an experience with God can feel kind of otherworldly or that's just for some people. So to kind of demystify that. I think what I've said to a lot of people is just to look at your life over the whole span and just try to think when were there moments that maybe I've never thought of it this way, but I would just say I knew God was in that moment. There was something about it that felt real, that felt personal. And that doesn't mean you heard a voice from heaven or saw handwriting on the wall or, you know, maybe some of the more dramatic things that have been depicted in movies or that happened to, like, Jesus and the apostles. I mean, maybe if we're looking for that, yeah, we'd say, I haven't encountered God. But I find even non believers will have experiences where they say, I. I don't know how else to explain that. I think maybe that was a higher power or something was there in that moment. And that's right. I would say then, when something comes to mind, trust that the Holy Spirit is maybe bringing that memory and look into it and say, boy, what about that felt personal? What about that Do I remember? And maybe have some emotion connected to. And I think you'll surprise yourself that there are more moments in your life where you would say, God was in that than you realize. And then just kind of fleshing those out and remembering the what and the why and the who and the how really starts to make it an effective personal promise.

Yeah, I think it's not effective if you compare to other people or if it's not personal to you. I mean, if it's something like, oh, I like yours, I'll take that. It's like, no, that's not the way it works. Like, you don't have that same experience. And so, yeah, I think that that's what really makes it is if you can find something that actually personally happened to you and then make sure, like, because I've got some I want to share during the episode. But even sitting here watching you have talk through that and get emotional, I'm like, dang it, I'm not gonna get emotional. Mine doesn't. Must not mean enough. Like, it's easy to get caught into that comparison thing, but don't do that. I think that that's a really easy way to make the personal promise. Not an effective thing for you.

So for the listener, that feels like, man, I've never gone through this process, or maybe it came up in group and they didn't really understand it, so they didn't do the homework that week. What does it look like to develop a personal promise? What might that process be for someone?

Well, and even like you had said, Nick, that sometimes people. Because I've heard that at conferences, too, where people will say, I don't think I've ever had an experience like that. I don't think I've ever encountered God. And it is really. You could look back and see these different times where you actually felt God's presence or you knew that God was in that experience, which I think is a great place to start. I also know that for me, when I've had these encounters with. With God, they are speaking to something that is about my identity. You know, because when I was diagnosed with this chronic disease and because I was super young to be diagnosed with this, then there was a part in my thought process that told me that I'm damaged, that I am never gonna be enough, that I'm broken from the inside out and there's no cure. And this is. This is my life. And so when I've had these encounters with God, they're speaking to that message that I believe about myself, that I'll never be enough, that I'm damaged goods. And so I think that that's also another way that you can even identify or even think back through your life and say, when have I had an experience that told me something opposite of what I believe about myself? Where maybe I didn't necessarily feel God in that moment, but maybe it was while listening to a worship song that it touched on something that really struck a chord with you, even if you didn't know what it meant. But just something that goes back to that identity. Because a lot of mine, even though they have different circumstances, they go back to that same negative core belief that I believe about myself. Because it's almost like God is saying, here, see yourself the way that I see you in that moment. Which I think can be helpful.

Yeah, I think as you were sharing, that the Lord created us with the left brain, right brain, and created us to understand and process information and have logic, but then also to have emotions and experiences. And I think that the Lord can speak to you through experiences with your emotions, that all of a sudden, you know, there are times like graves To Gardens is a song by Elevation worship. Every single time I listen to that song, I get emotional. There are very few times that, you know, I get emotional throughout the day because I'm a seven and I hate emotions, so I run for them. But it's like, that's Something that I know that there's something there. And it's interesting. As we've been talking already, like a new one literally just came to mind. And I was thinking about this, like, how to develop it. Like I. This was, let's see, late 2020, I realized I wanted to go back to seminary. And the Lord opened up some doors for me to do that. My wife was on board everything. And I remember sitting at our table in Sandy, Oregon, with dinner with my family and I said that I wanted to go back to school. And I remember my oldest, Brady, saying that he wanted a backyard. And we had this small, like, there was no backyard. It was just a bunch of. It was like a little bit of dirt and like a porch. You guys have been there. You know what it was like. But I remember in that moment being absolutely crushed. Like, buddy, we're gonna make a financial decision for daddy to go back to school. And it's gonna be at, you know, at basically the cost of your dream of having this big backyard within four, three or four months. We had friends randomly, out of the blue reach out saying, hey, we have this property that no one's. And you guys have both been to this property, seven acres. We want you to pay exactly the same amount you're paying now for your duplex. And Sandy, why don't you come out here? And we're just like, are you joking me? Like, what was interesting is we talked about praying for a backyard and that was one of the goals. And we kept doing that and kept doing that, really thinking this is never gonna happen. And then we get the seven acres. Like, Brady not only has a big backyard, he has a huge front yard, you know, yard everywhere. But it's that big moment of the Lord providing or revealing something to you that's tied to, you know, for me, Matthew 7 is what came to mind. The like, ask and it will be given to you. Seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened. And that can go through. I mean, that whole passage is amazing. But I'm literally, this is one right now I'm just creating like a new personal promise that I can see how the Lord provided. I can see where it's reflected in scripture. And because of that experience, it's a fused promise I can look back on. Like, no, no, no. God cares about what we want. God cares about what my, at the time, four year old wanted. Even though there was no shot in a million years that was going to happen, but the Lord still provided. So, yeah, I would just say that's Maybe just like, in the moment, how to develop one. If I did it wrong, let me know.

I think when we're going through the process, in some ways feel a little artificial. Like, okay, I'm just supposed to sit down and think of these. Shouldn't I experience them again or live them? And I think we can work too hard to try to find some magic moment. Whereas I was saying, I've encouraged group members in this process. Just get alone with a journal and with the Lord and just say, God, would you bring to mind times in my life that I've experienced you? And if a memory pops in your mind, there's probably a part of you that will dismiss it. Oh, that was no big deal. I mean, just sit with it for a moment and think through it. And you might realize, like, oh, I really remember feeling God's closeness. And in those moments, then what you'll need to do is maybe some translation work that you've never done. Because what we do tend to remember if we had an encounter with God, is what God said in terms of, I love you, I'm here for you. You used the words, heather, I've got you, I'll make a way. And those are great things to remember. But the translation I'm talking about is then to personalize it that if God says, I've got you, how does this speak to my value as a human being? That the God of the universe is holding me in his hands, or that the God of the universe finds me lovable? So not just saying God, you know, God saying, I love you. Oh, that's awesome. But if I translate it to say, I am lovable to the God of the universe, now, that becomes a statement of my identity, my value, and my worth. And so that's kind of the process I encourage is like, sit and try to process those moments and then do some translation work of what does this say about me? And then as we've been bringing up, look for, how does this attach to God's eternal word? What scripture verse then comes alive in a new way? Because when I think of that verse in God's Word, I think of an encounter, an experience I've had with it. And the other thing you guys are mentioning that I would kind of highlight that I think is really valuable, is to think through the highs and lows of your life and just say, where in them did I encounter God? Because often in a really high moment, like a wedding, a celebration, there are points we felt like it's just like God saying, this is my kingdom, or this is what I made you for. Like, oh, I could remember that. And in the low moments, too. It's interesting how, you know, the joy and pain go together of those low moments can be the seed of our shame, of the false messages, but they can also be the pockets where we, we heard a truth from God. And some of it is, which one will we meditate on? Because if we don't look to remember what God spoke to us, our subconscious, like I was saying earlier, will tend to keep rehearsing the lie that we heard and tell us, you know, you're always going to be rejected. So protect yourself, don't ever get rejected again. And that'll just keep happening. But if we remember another side with it. And then I remember there was this time I was praying and I was just so broken by the situation. And God revealed that he was at work. And I can remember that piece and just keep coming back to it. That's how those promises get developed. So that was my encouragement is if nothing's coming to mind as you're going through this process, just start to think through what are the highs I've been through and the lows and where in them might I have had some of these experiences with God that I just haven't named that way yet.

Yeah, that's good. Okay, so what does it look like practically to use a personal promise? And we've talked a lot about what it is, how we develop it, but when we actually put it into action. So like for instance, let's say we're going through the day and we get triggered by something and maybe that's the trigger that, you know, for an addict pushes us down the faster scale and we want to go toward relapse or if we're a betrayed spouse and we want to get hyper vigilant. So how would a personal promise apply? Like, how do we use it in that moment?

So it was probably a few years ago when Ashley and I were talking about this idea and just using personal promises in our recovery and healing. And she has carried a little card for years, has a little card that has her personal promises on them because then you just have it with you. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I want a little card. And so I, I made one and this is always in my wallet because sometimes I think that the enemy is going to be strategic and usually going to hit us wherever he can. And it's often not when we're at home and we have our Bible and our journal there and we can be more proactive but for me, I can't even count the times where I've been at the doctor office and I get so triggered. And I'm beyond. And even though I have this list of personal promises, I don't know what it is about our human nature. But my initial thought is always that I can't trust God in this because this is just too big and God can't do this. But if I have this and I know that it's there and I know exactly where it is, then I can immediately grab it and I can go through these five or six personal promises and I can recall the experience that I had with God and where he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you. It's those kind of things that even in no matter what we're going through, that God has said, this is how I see you, that you're worthy, that I love you, that you're not broken, that I've empowered you to spread a different type of message to people who need to hear it. And so that's what I recall. And it usually is in times like that. And it is practical. It's. It's very helpful in the midst of whatever it is that you're going through.

I think, and what you're describing there is what's so common for us when we are being triggered, we're being tempted, we're being pulled into that old deceitful way of thinking. And seeing ourselves is. We're often going. We call it going limbic, that our thinking brain is shutting down, our survival brain is taking over. We're being moved maybe into fight, flight or freeze mode. And in that. In that zone, it can be hard to think straight. And we might feel like, I can't remember anything, any truth. Just all I can see is this hurt or the anger or the pain or whatever we're facing, the desire to do something bad or make a wrong choice, and having a place we can go to reliably, quickly, that it's written down, it's spelled out for us, it's a reminder. I know I've had people in group and on this podcast that it's a tattoo that's on their arm. It's like it's visible, it's close at hand. No. Okay, this is who I am. This is a reality. I'm going to remember it. Because if we're only relying on, like, our conscious memory in those moments where we're triggered, it may not be there. And so I love that the card, the ways that we can write it down, it's on our phone somewhere. Just easily accessible, I think is really important. The other thing that comes to mind that I've tried to practice is, you know, when you do the faster scale a lot, you start to become more aware of when you're hitting the lower levels of man. I'm into speeding up and I'm getting ticked off and I'm getting exhausted. It's trying to take even five minutes to pause and ask. This could happen midday. Like, okay, I'm feeling something. What's going on? And I will often come back to like. For me, part of my trauma story is feeling like my voice didn't matter. I was one of three kids, one of four kids. I was the first middle child, and we were all within four years of each other. So very kind of busy, chaotic home. And I. I can look back into the scenarios and see that early on I learned through trauma that the only way I got noticed is if I performed well and got praise or if I performed bad and got in trouble. That's what got me attention. And so out of that story in my past has still come this performance need of. I need to perform well so people notice me. And if I'm not feeling noticed, it must be because I'm worthless and my voice doesn't matter. And a lot of times when I've, in my current life had a rough day where I just realize I'm spinning lower on the faster scale. If I stop and ask, okay, what am I feeling? What will come is, oh, I'm feeling like my voice doesn't matter. I'm feeling like I don't matter. I'm feeling like I didn't perform well enough to get noticed. Okay, then stopping and saying, what's the truth? What do I know about what God has said? And I think of a couple of encounters in my life where in. In some situations where I was using my gifts or getting to speak and just hearing God's voice of affirmation and like, this is what I made you to do. And there's some very experiential things I can bring to mind there. It's like, oh, okay, God, that's how you've made me. And that doesn't mean in every situation all the time. I'll feel it perfectly. But I'm going to believe your truth about who you've made me to be and choose to believe that over this lie that's tempting me to believe that. And to me, that is a part of what we mean when we say we have faith that I'm Choosing to believe what God has said is more true than this lie that in the moment can feel really, really true because of how it's connected to those emotions and those traumas in my life. So choosing to believe in that moment the truth that I've been rehearsing over and over. And that's why rehearsing it regularly in those moments then becomes valuable. Because if that's the first time I've thought about it in months and months, it's probably not going to be as helpful as if that's a personal promise that I'm reflecting on regularly.

Yeah. And it is something that we. I mean, I've heard Dr. Ted talk about it. It's something that he does daily before his feet hit the ground. He's doing his personal promises. And sometimes that's easy to just be like, all right, Dr. Ted, we know you're this recovery guru. We get it. But it is something we can do. It's something that rhythmically, habitually, we can put into our life. And I. I just know. You know, as you were saying, Nick, the performance thing is also something for me. And I vividly remember my first son being born, and within the first 30 seconds of his life, all he's done is cry and poop all over Amy's chest. And in that moment, as I'm, like, crying because, oh, my gosh, I'm a dad, the Lord said, how you feel about him is exactly how I feel about you. You have done nothing significant that has earned my love. It's just, there you have it. And so for me, when I'm feeling. To answer this question, when I'm feeling triggered or feel like I'm less valuable, like my needs don't matter, that's the big. You know, you talk about, like, feeling like you want that attention or that praise from other people. For me, it's the sense of people don't care what I want. And when I get to that point, that's the most powerful one, because it's like, no, no, no. Remember who you are. Remember, it has nothing to do, like, I've got you. I love you. I care about you, regardless of what you've done. You know, whether you're, like, naked, sitting down, pooping everywhere, I still love you no matter what. You know what I mean? And it's a funny one, but also is just those big moments in life tend to reinforce those, too. And that's been my experience.

Yeah. So do we ever get to develop a new personal promise, or do we just always stick with Ones that we've had. And are there situations where we might think of, like, retiring or moving on from one? Of, like. Well, that's not really one I reflect on anymore. What are your thoughts on that, Heather?

So I don't think that I've ever gotten to a point where I would retire any of the personal promises, Jersey and the rafter ceremony, Even though it's in every situation, I'm not going to use all of them. And there are some that I tend to draw on more often than the other ones. But I do think that we can create new ones. And I remember it was probably in 2017 that we had a women's conference, a Pure Desire women's conference. And it was the last morning. It was the Sunday morning, it's the last session, and Diane is speaking, and there's music playing, and we're just supposed to be sitting quietly and with our eyes closed and talking with the Lord. And I think that this is the only time that I've ever had experienced any kind of a vision, you know, like any where God showed me something instead of said something to me. And only time ever. And because my brain just does this. It saw it kind of in film shots. Okay? So the first film shot showed. Showed Jesus. You know, imagine the picture of Jesus that you always see everywhere. You know, just Jesus, and he's kind of standing in this field, and he has his hand out like this. That's the first frame and then the second frame. And I remember even in that moment, feeling excited, you know, that this was just a wonderful picture. And the next one showed because his hand is out. It showed my hand in his hand, and even my crippled hand in his hand. That was the second phrase frame of this vision. And the third one is that I step into the image and I have a blindfold on, and it's even, like, my curly hair, which was very disturbing to me. So in this moment, I go from feeling this just immense joy to this kind of disturbing image that I know that I'm wearing a blindfold. Yeah. And being blindfolded is a trigger for me. And so, anyway, then after this time is over at this women's thing and we're kind of in this group, and the ladies are like, oh, so what did you experience? And I'm like, nothing. I'm gonna share. You know, this is like, I don't even know what to do with this and let alone say it out loud. And so it really was several months where I kind of wrote it down in a journal and then just Forgot about it. And then the Lord would bring it to mind, and then I wouldn't do anything with it. And then probably about eight months later, I was listening to a podcast, and the person speaking brought up Isaiah 42, 16 that says, I will lead the blind by ways they don't know. And I'll lead them. I'll guide them into unfamiliar territory. And that was another time where I just. It broke me. It was God saying to me, do you trust me? Do you trust me with everything? Will you follow me and trust me no matter where, even if you don't know where I'm leading you? Will you just trust that I know what's best for you? Because I think that that's probably. I mean, I would love to say that I always trust the Lord absolutely, but the reality of that is that I don't. You know, my humanness sometimes interferes with me being able to just blindly trust God. But I think that it's through those kind of encounters that I can remember that God saying, do you trust me? Do you trust me to lead you in a place that you have no idea where I'm taking you, but you're gonna trust me that I love you and I have the best for you. So that is probably my most recent one. But again, it goes on my card so that then, you know, so that I have that memory when life feels uncertain or unstable or I'm not quite sure what next year's gonna look like, then God says, do you trust me? Do you trust me to guide you, even if you're blind to what I'm going to show you?

Yeah. And I think it's. Honestly, I think it's foolish to think that you won't develop more because you're going to have more experiences with the Lord. You're going to have more experiences with his people. You know, like, I just. Recently, we had some scary stuff go down in a group I'm a part of at church. And I know that I got to watch our group step up in some big ways and be, like, physically be the hands and feet of Jesus. And, like, I'm pretty sure that's going to be a personal promise for us, a couple people involved, like, no question, because it's a difficulty in life for this big moment that gets reinforced by the truth that, you know, and those are going to continue to happen because that's. God doesn't always work that way. It'd be nice if it was all these, like, big, you know, like. Like that. Like, for you, a cinematic moment. Where it's just like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. I'm going to write a book about this kind of thing. But, like, he does continue to work in you. He continues to work in small things. You know, I've had conversations with my. With my two sons and promises or reminders of God's promises to me will come from even those where it's just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. I wasn't ready for this. Like, I should be in my Bible or journaling or praying or, you know, hearing a sermon or whatever. And so I think it's foolish to think that they won't continue. But I like what you said, too. Had that. It's not that you'll ever retire them. It's just, you know, you'll have all these cards out in front of you, you know, remembering all these promises. And some just seasonally will be, you know, more apparent and more applicable, but then others might not. But seasons change in life, so you may come back to those old ones anyway.

Yeah, we know God is speaking. God is always speaking, and so he may speak new things to us, and we want to be attentive to that. I think what we're looking for and even, you know, in the way we're sharing stories like what you just shared, Heather, it's not just that you remember Isaiah 42. You've connected it to an emotional encounter that you can remember. Time, sight, sound, place that give it meaning and depth, not just words on a page. Now, I think words are great, too. Right now for me, the name of God, El Roy, the God who Sees or God Takes Notice of Me, is a very deeply emotional name of God that for a variety of reasons, in this season of life is really, really important to me where other times it hasn't been. And I think that's what I would say about it. Your season of life will create needs for different words or promises to be more personal to you. And you, I think, sometimes can even see it coming down the road as you enter into things of knowing. Man, I will be tempted to believe in this situation that I'm not good enough. And so what am I going to need to call to mind about what God has said about my value, worth and identity? What story do I need to keep front and center as I walk through this difficult thing or as I go into this season of parenting, Whatever it is, that's what I would look at is not just necessarily new ones or getting rid of old ones, but more saying in this season that I'm in what Are the lies I'm tempted to believe or the challenges I'm facing? And where in my walk with God have I encountered things that speak his truth in a way that I'm personally calling to mind? So that's kind of how I think about it, is more by seasons and not just what's old or new.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's kind of round this conversation out with pro tips, basically. So in our experience of being through the healing process, what are things that we found to be successful with? Personal promises, tips, thoughts on how to do it, encouragements? What would we offer to people who are listening?

For me, what works best is having something that's visual because. And whether that is my card that I carry, I also have index cards that are places like taped to a mirror or something. Because I think for me personally, that that visual, being able to see it is really helpful. And I also think that writing things down, like, if I have. Because sometimes I can't always just connect things right away, especially if I'm going through a new season or something, but being willing to write down how I'm feeling about something and not discounting it, because I'm very good at saying I'm not feeling that, you know, but just writing down what I'm feeling and being able to sit and process that and even give myself time, like, I'm gonna do this for a week and see what God tells me. You know, just those kind of things I think is really helpful and not to rush the process because God knows what we need when we need it, even if we think we need something different, you know, and so those are a couple things that I would recommend.

Yeah, I love that idea of something visual. I know when Dr. Ted would teach on this, he'd always have a picture of a lion that was in. He was even in the manuals. And it's like it was connected to his story. And I think if we have those visual images that are associated with it, that's. That's super important. A couple of things I would say, like any tool, it's only as valuable as often as we use it.

Yeah.

So if we rarely think about these things and we don't think it's helping us much, it's like, well, those two things kind of go together. If you're not really calling them to mind or trying to meditate on these promises and truths that God has revealed to you, they're not going to help much. So use it. Put it into practice. Give yourself, like you said, Heather, even a timeframe of man. I'm going to really, every day for this number of days, try to spend a couple of minutes just remembering who God has said I am and what stories go with that and see what kind of a difference it starts to make. The other piece of advice I'd give as you walk into this, because of our trauma stories, because the voice of shame has often had a big place in our story, these promises usually to some degree will feel too good to be true, or they'll feel. They'll feel too good for us. We will feel unworthy of them. Of God's, you know, four of my personal promises create the word heir, that I'm an heir of Christ, H E I R and words of being a healer, an encourager, an influencer, and a redeemer. And some of those, like healer. I mean, who am I to think of myself as a healer for God or a redeemer of lost people? And that is, I think, just evident of some of that voice of shame that's like, you know, you're not good enough. You never will be. People don't care. Your voice is worthless. And when God speaks his truth, if a part of us wants to reject it because, like, that can't be true of me, that is actually, I think, an indication that you're hearing some truth. And so if you feel some of your personal promises is God telling you that you're a mighty warrior for him, and you feel right now like you're just this little mouse, like, well, that very well could be God's truth because it's in direct contradiction to what you're tempted to believe. And you might not feel like you're a mighty warrior right now, but I think we need to embrace that. Or we might feel like God says, I'm going to use you to impact the nations. And we're like, really? I mean, all I do is, you know, this, that, or the other thing. Oh, just because it feels too good to be true or too big for you, don't dismiss it and assume that that's not God because again, it's very much the voice of shame that makes us feel that way. So be open to a word, a message, a promise that feels really big. And if it's calling us to do something, of course, take that to wise friends and people in your life. I mean, if the voice of God says, I'm going to use you to change the world, I want you to sell everything and go be an evangelist, check in with some people first, because it could be God's Promise, or it could be something else. If there are things like that that you're going to take some drastic action, always check in with other people first. But I hope you hear the point I'm making is God's promises to us usually feel too good to be true. And to me, that's part of the indication that we're starting to stumble on something that we really need to pay attention to that's good.

Something my wife and I have been talking about is in the Old Testament, predominantly, you see that after this big experience, people build an altar and they build to kind of what you were talking about had this visual representation of God's provision or God coming in the clutch, or, you know, like, I just think about all of these. And I've been going through the Old Testament at a pretty slow pace with a group of guys. And so I think that that's. I've just been there. I've been in the Torah, where a lot of this is happening. And we've been thinking about doing that as well. And, you know, we're not going to, like, stack rocks in the center of our, you know, like, living room, and then we'll have to walk around it. Well, watch out for the altar. But we are thinking through ways. Like, we got out of debt early 2020, and that was a huge journey for us. And there was a picture that we had, and we're thinking about ways to creatively put that on our wall somewhere. That's very visual. That when we walk into that room, it's a reminder of, look how God provided. Look how God has not only provided, but protected for us and has moved us even more, has provided even more than what we thought. And so I think that finding ways to do that, too, like, even thinking about the space that you spend a lot of time in, your office, your home, wherever it may be, and find ways to visually do that, to reinforce the truths and the reality that God has provided for you or done things. So I don't know. It's just an interesting thing. I feel those are one of those things. Like, in the Old Testament, it's like, well, should we still do that today? I don't really know, but we're both on board, so we're going to do the altar thing. Okay.

So this.

And I appreciate the emotion today in this episode. I think it's easy to just talk about a thing because we know about it. But I appreciate. Heather, I know you're not the most overtly emotional person, but just being able to enter that space, I appreciate that a lot. And yeah, I think that this tool is something that we can continue to get better at and develop and use. And I love what you said, Nick, that this is a tool that will work if we use it. And so that's our biggest encouragement is that as you develop these, don't just then put them on the shelf, make sure that you're using them, print them out on a card, put them on the wall somewhere, do something with them because that's going to help you on your journey. So he thanks for the conversation today, being with us.

Yeah, thank you.

And wherever you're at on your journey, pure desire is here to help you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. If you or someone you know needs recovery and healing, go to PureDesire.org and begin the journey today. If you like this episode or a fan of the podcast, please share it with others and make sure to check out the full episode up on YouTube as well. And lastly, never stop being healthy.