304 - Teen Girls & Porn w/ Crystal Renaud Day (Women's Takeover)

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted.

Sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. Hey, there. I'm your host, Ashley Jamison, and you're listening to episode 304 of the Pure Desire podcast, Women's Takeover. We're back here. Joining me as always, is my co host, Heather Kolb. Hey.

Hey.

Here I am again. I. You know what? I honestly didn't know when we'd get to do these again.

I know. It's always a surprise.

It is.

Trevor's like, okay, you guys, you're up. And then we're hustling to find guests, and usually we have a pretty good lineup already in our queue. We do, yeah. So today we got to meet with Krystal Renaud Day and talk about struggles that teen girls specifically, I guess, kind of morphed into teen. Teenagers are having today with porn and unwanted sexual behavior.

Yeah, it was so great because we did talk a lot about teens and their struggle and some of the aspects of social media, but we. I felt like we also talked quite a bit about parents. Right. And really to parents and how to equip them to understand not only technology, but what their kids are going through and what their kids are being exposed to, and whether it's on social media or gaming or these different things, which I think even as a parent and I don't have little kids, but I find that so helpful and so informative because there's some things that she mentioned today that I would never have have thought existed.

Right.

So, yeah, I thought it was really great, really helpful for parents and even for younger kids, teens who are listening just so that they understand what they're up against today.

And, yeah, something you just said made me think. We went into this episode and I felt like we were in Alice in Wonderland. It was just this rabbit hole of, like, and then there's this, and then there's this. And it can feel so overwhelming to parent your kids in today's society. But my encouragement would be, you may feel overwhelmed with all the avenues. And this is what I say to the women in my unraveled group when I'm teaching, like, the faster scale or we're going through the workbook, just because we're talking about it isn't making it so all these things are happening already. And us being able to talk about it and verbalize it and even point out all these things that may feel very overwhelming now, we're just aware of it. So we have some actionable things we can do, but not talking about it is not gonna help. Cause it just, it's already happening and it's just like working under the surface. But yeah, at one point I was thinking, okay, when I get back home, I need to X, Y and Z. So I feel like regardless of where you're starting at, if you're a parent that's really engaged and hyper vigilant or you haven't talked with your kids or put any parameters in place at all, that there will be some next steps and just focus on your next step from here. And then after that we can do next step. And then it never ends. Because parenting never ends and your worrying never ends.

Right.

But we're here for you. Okay, so before we get into the episode with our guests, our special guest, we've got a few things to go over. So first, subscribe to the podcast or you can watch the full episode on YouTube. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do it, don't wait. You can find us on all major platforms and please give us a review because it helps more people find us and find this really helpful information.

2.

Follow us on social media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, instagramuredesirepdmi, and if you like to consume video content, the full episodes are on YouTube. Pure Desire Ministries. And lastly, because we've spent the day talking about sexual struggles and pornography struggles with girls and women, this is a great opportunity to just pause and talk about a resource that we have unraveled, Managing Love, Sex and Relationships. So, Heather, can you tell us a little bit about that resource?

Yeah. And because we know that women struggle too, that girls struggle too, this isn't just a man's issue. It's a people issue. That this is why we created Unraveled Managing Love, Sex and Relationships. And it really is for women who struggle with all of those things, whether or not it's unwanted sexual behavior, whether it is that you have this string of relationships that end poorly and you don't even know why, it really helps you get in touch with your own story and, and figure out the why. And then also Unraveled gives women the tools that they need to get healthy and to move forward in health and wholeness, which is so important today for women and really just their health and their identity.

Yeah, Leading Unraveled is one of my favorite groups to lead because you really just get to be vulnerable with women who have struggled and some of them have been harmed because they've gone to their church or pastors and then there's either nothing for them or if there is A group, some of them said they've even been put in a men's group. And so they're just feeling so free when they can find an unravel group. And I've actually led this with some teenagers because the way that our society is today, if they're like an older teen and they're engaged in sexual behaviors and pornography, that content, it really fits them. And so just kind of use that discretion as well, because there are teens that would benefit from it too, if they're kind of already in, you know, the trenches of their struggles. All right, well, here's our conversation with Crystal Renaud Day on teen girls and porn. All right, well, today we're here with Crystal Renaud Day, and she is a pastoral counselor, certified coach, podcast host, Author, speaker, with 15 years of experience working with women facing porn and unwanted sexual behaviors. I'd write it down because you have so many little branches of things you do, including owning and operating, living on purpose coaching, and pastoral counseling. And you are the founder and director of she Recovery.com, which is crazy. You are multifaceted, doing a little bit of everything. She lives in Kansas with her husband Tim. And I met Crystal originally through her virtual summit, her she Recovery Summit. I think two or three, probably three years ago, you invited me to be a guest. And I just fell in love with her ministry and what she does and how she tries to connect with other women who are also doing as much as they can to be a voice out there and be a little beacon of hope. So when we got to do this women's takeover, we were just. You came right to our mind. So we want to highlight what you do with not only women, but teenage girls, too, because that's a category that we don't have as much emphasis on. And so we want to highlight that today. So thank you for being here with us.

Thanks for having me. Good to be here.

Yes. Okay, we'll just jump right in. Tell us about yourself. I mean, I listed off all the things you do, but in your normal daily life, working with people, what does that look like for you? And also what does it look like to work with teens?

Yeah, you know, these days I really. My focus has shifted from doing all the one on one work and really kind of focusing in, on developing my team and providing vision and leadership for them. But my team, day in, day out, they are providing counseling services, coaching services to women and teen girls. We do offer those super assisted teen girls as well. Whether you're struggling with pornography, addiction, sexual addiction, just sexual brokenness, Sexual wholeness issues, integrity, but even just regular mental health issues, we are here to help with those issues as well. And obviously through she recovery specifically, we are fully targeting the woman or teen girl who's wrestling with pornography and sexual addiction or unwanted sexual behavior through our virtual recovery meetings that are held every day of the week here virtually. So that's what my team does, what I do and we wrangle and we do what we can to meet the needs of the women who come to us. So that's great.

And you also, I've seen sometimes host things that will include the parents too. Right. You've had some certain virtual nights where you have parents on with the teenagers.

Yes, I from time to time have offered a kind of tech savvy parents webinar where I'm helping parents to navigate technology. There's a lot of the times, you know, obviously with, especially now, children growing up in the tech age, like they know technology better than their parents do. And so I find it important to educate parents on the different apps that are going on right now that are really trend, you know, things that are things kids can do to hide their activity really easily through phantom apps and just lots of things to keep parents more in the loop on what they can be responsible for. And I always try to really implore and empower parents to be parents when it comes to technology and say it's your device, you bought it.

Like you have every.

You have absolute control and permission to, to look at it, to moderate it, to all of it.

So we do that.

And then as well, you know, we have as far as like coaching our teen girls, we really try to bring the parent into that experience so that the things that they're learning in a coaching or counseling situation, they can then take that into a home environment and really work with that parent to help them navigate these difficult conversations.

Yeah, that's good. And I think parents really need that. Like you said, you're trying to empower them because it goes so against our grain and our culture. And it was just last week that I boxed up every single device my son has, except for the one he does some schooling on because he's homeschooled all video games and he's been telling his friends, I'm grounded until I'm 18. And that is literally the mindset I want him to have. Because just seeing his behavior change back to a normal, healthy little boy in six or seven days of taking like video games and that kind of thing, especially violent video games, I'm like, but it's so counterculture, you know, so if he's in regular school, I even have a bigger battle, because then I have to battle all the things his friends have. So just having little support groups like this, or webinars or training to know you're not alone, it's okay. Really, really good stuff.

That is so good. Especially because I think that a lot of parents feel a little bit lost with that because they don't really know technology very well. And yet they always. Like you were saying, Ashley, the culture kind of makes it seem like the children, the kids should get to decide. Instead of the parents saying, wait, you know, I'm paying for that plan. I'm paying for that device. And so I'm gonna have some say in what you can do and can't do with it. So I think that's awesome. That's so great.

It's a new mentality of, you know, I'm 38, so when I was a kid, it was like, how. How dare my parents rummage through my room and look for things? Well, it's their house. It's their property.

It's their.

It's. It's not my room. I'm just using it, you know? And I think the same thing applies with technology. It's like, no hidden. No hidden places, no secret spaces from your parents, because you have every right to know. Your kid is doing what they have in their possession.

And it moves so fast. I think that's why we need these groups, because we need somebody who's not me. Cause I'm not techie. That is techie giving the parents the updates. Because Heather co authored Digital Natives. And I mean, as good as it is, if it's five years old, there's gonna be new stuff to know. So we have to have these, you know, avenues where parents can learn even though they don't know that stuff, you know, naturally.

So.

Yeah, that's so good. So in your work with women, what is the most common situation or event in a woman's story that kind of sets her up to be vulnerable to porn or other unwanted sexual behaviors, you know, that.

That is such a. It's. It's a very. It's hard to, like, paint that with a broad brush. But even speaking from, like, my experience and speaking from men to women that we work with, you know, what sets them up? I don't know that there's any sort of specific event, but I do know that. That. That early exposure to pornography. So, like. Like, I was 10 years old, and that seems to be a common Thread where they're finding, for finding porn, being exposed to porn at a very young age, it. It immediately like it destroys any proper understanding of sex. And what porn teaches you is a lot of the times it's. Women have to be desirable, they have to be approachable, they have to say yes, like they're always willing and ready. And I think that it just kind of teaches women about who they are sexually, when in reality that's not what is true. And obviously when you're exposed to pornography that young, you have an asexual. You have a sexual awakening before you're really ever meant to. And so you're exploring your body, you can become addicted to masturbation. Like, there's all kinds of things that are happening. And so from the many women that we work with, I would say that is the catalytic. That catalytic event is just the exposure. It's. It takes them from innocence to, you know, they're no longer innocent when it comes to the sex through sexuality and sex. And it wreaks havoc going forward, especially as they enter into puberty and the expectations that they feel are on them.

Yeah, and in my work with Unraveled, I see that same common thread of early exposure. And sometimes it's. I mean, like you said, Crystal, we're 38. So it could have been medical books back at 30, you know, when we were 10, it could have been just the encyclopedia and moving to all the parts that have the private parts, you know, like I, like, I remember doing that kind of stuff. It wasn't always just something. I found porn under the bridge, you know, like real old school kind of ways of stumbling across it. Not like today where it's just everywhere. But then also a common thread I see is some kind of unresolved perceived or real mother or father wound with the women and really not knowing how to work through their feelings, express them. Because we all know there's such a connection between thoughts and feelings and behaviors. And if one of those things gets stuck, you know, like, okay, we're watching, we're exposed to porn, and maybe we're masturbating and we're having these thoughts and feelings and then it just creates this whirlwind or cyclone as Heather kind of created, I guess, and something needs to get unstuck. So I. Yeah, it's. It seems like it's a combination of things, root issues that cause that, but now you just cannot escape it. It's everywhere. So now it's like, okay, if back, back in the day, we say the ones that had the early exposure were the ones most vulnerable. Vulnerable from what we could see what happens now in our society when every single little kid is exposed at some point, every single kid is going to be exposed to something sexual. And that is just really frightening.

Yeah, I really like the way that you phrased that about that. It is kind of this awakening because I think that a lot of kids, especially when they are so young, they do not even know what to do with that. And of course, they do not necessarily go and tell their parents, but yet it creates this excitement and shame at the same time. And I could see how it just also creates kind of their own little private prison that they live in. And kids don't even know. A lot of them don't even have the language to articulate what they're feeling or what they've come across. And so I could see that just being something that really is so harmful to women in the long run.

You just entirely told my childhood story just then. It is the exposure. It's for the. I always say that it was the first time I ever really remember experiencing shame that wasn't associated with, like, discipline, like, being in trouble. And so, yes, there was. There was this massive amount of intrigue and curiosity. But then, of course, there was this immense amount of shame. And so I didn't want to tell anyone. I didn't feel like I could without getting, you know, in more trouble or getting my brother in trouble for having porn. You know, there was all kinds of things that were going on that would. That would have kept me in the dark. And going back to what Ashley, you were talking about in terms of a mother or father wound, that's absolutely relevant as well, because, I mean, for me, my first love was food. Like, I was alone a lot when I was little, and I didn't know how. I didn't know how to deal with my big feelings. And so I would eat and I would hide food and sneak food, and then when I found porn, it became the replacement for it. And so it really did kind of become a new coping, you know, mechanism for me. And because I did have so much shame about it, it was my secret for 10 years.

Do you see that a lot? Because I do in my unraveled groups. And that's my story too, of this pendulum of, like, overeating and then acting out sexually. And I've read that there's such like, an intertwined between eating disorders for women and sexual acting out or unhealthy sexual behaviors. Do you see that a lot too?

Absolutely. You Talk about the pleasure center of the brain and dopamine. So food and sex create the same reaction in the brain. And so if you have somebody who struggles with food and then finds porn, there is kind of a transference that can happen. And then when you're in recovery from porn, finally you go back to having food issues a lot of the time as well. So there is kind of this tension of like, going back and forth and really get. And that's why it's so important to get to the root of why. Yes, you're acting out, whether it's with food, whether it's with porn, whether it's shopping, you know, there could be all kinds of things. The root is the same. Let's find out what that is and then. And fix it and heal it.

Yeah, that's so good. Um, I. I mean, our next question is about the average age.

It.

You know, we have said boys are exposed around 11, girls may be a little older. Is this still consistently kind of goes along with what you're seeing, or do you think girls and boys kind of get exposed the same age now? Younger?

I think with the, with, with the onslaught of technology, I do think it's probably becoming the same. I have, I've had clients who were teens. They were, you know, 16, 17, 18 years old, and they were exposed to porn at 7 or 8.

Yeah.

At a friend's house. You know, look, online, playing games, you know, so it's. It's that technology, the accessibility to being exposed to pornography. It's kind of an even playing field now. Whereas I think maybe early on boys would get more access because of a dad's stash of Playboys or things like that, where they had more access to that environment and the girls didn't. And so. But I do think now with technology, the playing field's pretty even.

Yeah. And that's so interesting because I just sent Heather a stat this morning that I read on Fight the New Drug website, and it was saying that they did a survey and 44% of the kids, students said they had access porn at school. And most of them were on even a school device. And so it's just. I think we have to get out of the mindset of keeping our kids. Keeping our kids, keeping our kids. Yes, I do. That I have controls on everything. We lock things up, you know, But. But having a mindset of when this happens, when you're exposed, when maybe one of your friends is sexually curious with you and asked you to do something, and those kind of conversations of almost like Mentally rehearsing with your kids of what to do could have possibly helped somebody like you or like me when that happened to us. Say, okay, my mom has already told me several times what to do in this instant, you know, and that did save my daughter from some sexual trauma with a neighbor friend. She came to me right away because I had already shared my story with her and told her, you know, that this could happen. I don't want to scare you, but our world is kind of scary, so, you know, like, preparing them.

And sometimes I think that as parents, we don't know what we don't know. And a lot of times we tell our children things because of our experiences, and we don't necessarily think outside of our experiences unless we are getting some training or advice from somebody else. Which goes back to, again, Crystal, what you're doing with parents and equipping them, I think is so great because what we've come across a lot is parents who say, oh, well, my kids are good. They won't need that. And it's like, well, that's great if your kids can control every single thing that happens in their world, which none of us can. Right. And so I think the most we can do is just try and equip our kids, which is so, so helpful in the long run.

Yep, I agree.

So another question that we have for you is what advice would you give a mother who is aware of her teenager's struggle with porn sex, relationships?

Does she. Has she talked to her daughter yet? Or is it just she just found out and her daughter doesn't know?

I will tell you, from my experience, I've gotten this call quite a bit working in the group's side, and parents are scared to talk to their kids. So let's address the mom that knows, and maybe her daughter knows. She knows, but there's been no conversation. And I've even had. I myself had an abortion. I actually had sex with her dad before marriage, but we can't tell her that. So this is kind of the. The mom that I've run across mostly. You know, there's a variety, but mostly, yeah.

I think before you ever approach your child, you need to educate yourself on how to have this conversation. And there are, you know, in the world, online, there are websites. I won't plug them, I guess, at this point, but there are websites that actually have articles on how to talk to your child about porn, how to talk to your child after, you know, they've. They've seen porn. Like, having the conversation. That conversation is very important. Because the first of all, you don't want to come at it with. With a bunch of shame. Like, you don't want to come at them like, oh, you're in trouble because you did this. Yes, there needs to be boundaries put in place. Yes, there needs to be a conversation that needs to take place. But you can't come at them with shame. You can't come out at them like, you're in trouble for this. Because if they never had a conversation with you before about porn or sex and they came across porn online and then they became intrigued by that and hooked on that, is that really their fault?

Right.

You know, they didn't know what they were getting themselves into. So is it really their fault that they're. That they're continuing this behavior? And so it's really important that we keep shame on, you know, away from the conversation and really bring it back to what porn is, what porn is, not that, you know, what is sex? What is sex is not. If you're a Christian from. From a biblical perspective, what is biblical sexuality? And why does pornography. Why is pornography a counterfeit of that? And why. Why is it damaging? And so parents really need to educate themselves on the why of all of this, as opposed to, oh, this is bad. Stop doing it. Because just like every other kid, you tell them they don't. Don't do that, Right. Or stop doing that, they're gonna be, like, going to keep doing. Because they don't. They don't have a good reason not to. They haven't been given a good enough reason other than it's bad. Just like purity culture. Don't have sex. So you're married. We don't tell you why, we just tell you not to. And so it's important that we have conversations about the why and why. It's important that we keep that material off. Out of your eyes, out of your mind.

Yeah.

And out of your heart.

I don't have teenage girls. Well, I do. As of yesterday, ayla just turned 13. But one of my boys and I have three, so I won't name any names. Just one of them was struggling with not really porn, but Instagram. You know, those. Those social medias. I don't even know which one it was, but I. I learned from an officer that I follow on. On social media to try to figure out how to keep my kids safe that there's, like a little hidden file. And it's. It takes so much brain power, but when somebody can just say, here's the steps. You go in here, you Click this. You know, like Heather said, we don't know what we don't know. And I was able to see that there was a secret file, but not what was in it. And it was good to just say, can you show me what's in your secret file? No, I'm like, okay. Is it something that would be embarrassing?

Yes.

And so I was able to just say, you know, I can probably, yes. You know, because I was a teenager too, and, you know, John and I have been through our struggles and. But I want you to understand just what happens to our bodies and how this affects relationship. And then at the end, I kind of said, and the reason why God says this about marriage is because he wants the very best for you. And he can see that these are the kinds of issues it would create for you. And he loves you. And so that's why he already knows all this about science. He already knows about this, about addiction. He already knows how this, you know, and. And so it was, you know, I attempted to wrap God into it in a way that loving. Because he wants the best for you and he can see this and doesn't want you to stay stuck here with hopefully out saying, like, this is a sin. You know, I didn't do that. But, you know, we'll see. We have a good relationship, so we'll see how it plays out in, you know, another 10 years or so.

Well, and sometimes I think that it's hard, you know, like I said that parents, you know, sometimes our kids exposure to pornography is the first time that we have an opportunity to address this. You know what I mean? It's great if you can. Like today, parents, I think, should be educating themselves about it. But, you know, my kids are older, they're all adults. But I remember specifically when one of my kids, I get a call from school, private school, and he's being suspended from school because some other boy brought a page from his dad's Playboy and showed him. And then they got caught and they both got suspended.

And.

And I remember just feeling a little bit overwhelmed by that. But it also gave me an opportunity to have these three days home with my son when the other boys weren't there. And we got to talk about all of it. You know, what he felt, because he also felt angry. And this was his first exposure to pornography, but he felt angry for being accused for something that he didn't do and also being suspended for something that he didn't do. But yet I looked at it as just this divine intervention so that we could have this Three day long conversation about how this affected him. God's design for sex, why this is harmful to us, what can we do to keep ourselves safe if this happens again, you know, those kind of things. And so, and of course, you know, I didn't handle it perfectly, but I also, I wasn't mad at him, you know, because I clearly knew that this wasn't his fault. He didn't ask for this, he didn't go looking for this. This was something that was kind of forced on him and it was traumatic to him and I was so thankful to have that time with him so that we could just kind of walk through what this was going to look like going forward, you know. But a lot of parents don't get that opportunity.

Good mindset to have is think of it as an opportunity after you're able to kind of de shock.

Yes, yes.

Okay, so this next question I put on here, selfishly, because recently one of my children, I have four, so I'm not going to name names. Was looking at a YouTube video, which I was okay with, even though, I mean, I'm really not okay with YouTube. But I was in that lazy, overwhelmed parenting mode where I just gave in a little bit again, you know, going back on my rules. And the YouTube video, they were unboxing something, you know how we used to just say opened like a normal person. They were doing an unboxing. And it was this item that intrigued my son and it was an anime creature, like I don't know if it was a boy, girl, furry or whatever. It was just this thing, you know, that intrigued him. So then he went to Amazon and then he looked at Amazon to look this item up, which then brought on a whole bunch of sexual things which then led him to porn, which my app shut down and notified me right away, you know, but I, I just like see this like wormhole that just takes kids from point A to point B and gets them trapped. And then if part of point A is somebody they kind of look up to on YouTube or look up to in a game or, you know, it just seems like our world is so much more complex than it used to be. So with all of that, like social media apps, what, I mean, I know there's no one answer, but what general advice do you give to parents on all these things? And do you see any thing being a higher contributor like gaming, or do you see any links between certain things that kind of elevate a risk that you're going to maybe be more prone to sexual addiction? Answer the million Dollar question.

I mean, yeah, it is a million dollar question. I mean, because all of it can become an addiction. So you can be addicted to social media and all the likes and the follows and the, and the admiration. The admiration. You can be addicted to gaming very easily. So all these, all these different avenues of tech addiction really is what it is, technology addiction, whether it's social media, whether it's gaming, whether it's even shopping, browsing, Amazon. I mean I'm guilty of just, I need that I'll go on Amazon and get it like without even thinking about it, shopping on Amazon. So all these things have become addictions in and of themselves because of what they are and what they are providing you. Like, it's in terms of attention, excitement, dopamine, all of those things. And so when you have something that's, that's there. So as I said, use social media as, as, as the example. It is kind of just the gateway really to porn. I think everything online, if it has an Internet connection on it, can lead you and probably will lead you to pornography because that's how pornography industry wants it to be. And so we have to think about this in terms of like it's not even that you're, that you're in control, it's that you are being controlled by these large corporate porn, you know, companies and they are creating avenues from social media to them. Whether that's through breadcrumbs, whether that's through cookies, whether that's through, you know, just ads that you're exposed to. Think about old school porn. And I say old school meaning like 90s, early 2000s, where you couldn't even go to a website without a pop up. Like, and it's porn that still happens, but it happens in a different way now in that you're on social media and you're seeing really provocative, you're finding all of a sudden really provocative Instagram account and then those have ads and you might click that ad and it would take you to maybe a lingerie site. Then that lingerie site becomes a porn site. So like there's just avenues like that. With gaming in particular too. You are connected to the world, most of these gaming consoles and gaming is you're interacting with people, you're interacting with strangers. And there's chat enabled things where you can just, people can send you links and show you things. And there are, I believe, predatory porn producers or porn companies that are in there trying to capture people to come to their sites. If we think about this in terms of consumers, consumers like in Terms of pornography consumers, obviously the porn industry knows they have the guys, like, guys are watching porn. We know that they've been watching porn since the beginning of time. But when it comes to women, that also looks different, you're targeting women in a different way. You're targeting, targeting them through romance and desire and those types of things. With children, they're targeting them through celebrity and through things that look like they're related to your game or look like it's related to this person's social media account, when in reality it's taking them to pornography. And so these are all things that are happening in social media, in gaming, you know, or just browsing, being on YouTube. I mean, YouTube Kids is actually a really dirty place. Even though it's supposed to be safe, there's a lot there that can go against a Christian values in terms of transgenderism and all kinds of things. So it's not enough that you're just saying, okay, you can sit down and watch, right? You two kids and you're gonna be okay. It's like you can still be linked out into other things and it's, it's scary.

That is so scary.

Yeah, it really is. Because I heard in a book I was listening to, we used to say, you know, at 10 o', clock, do you know where your kids are? And now you need to say, do you know who your kids are online with? And because it's literally just like they're in the room and there's this like, portal to every predator, like you said, every. Anybody who wants them. Sex trafficking. Oh, you're mad at your mom? I can pick you up. Oh, you want to be a model? Meet me here. And then that's why sex trafficking is so high in the United States even, which blows people's minds. Because these girls are going off and then they're getting drugged and beaten and raped and then, and then they're ashamed to go back home because they, you know, like, it's just there's so much out there and you know, with gaming and social media, some of the teenage girls that I worked with through our behind the mask material, they said they look at porn or Instagram or those, like you said, sexual. I'm so like not social media. So I'm those sexual accounts sexualized because they body shame them into. They body shame themselves into not eating. Right? Because then there's the eating addiction part so that they can be skinny and look like these girls for the guys. So they almost told me, I'm looking at it to learn what I'm supposed to look at it, you know, supposed to look like and what I'm supposed to be doing, which just destroys their identity. And then if they're getting aroused by the females on there, they're like, I think I'm gay too. It's just so not what God designed our brains to be doing. And there's so many different access points. It just feels like you have to be completely on guard. Like I imagine like mom in a tennis, you know, like automated tennis, like booth or whatever. That's how I feel, like constantly. And, and it doesn't stop, you know, so you have to be on guard.

It is so scary what's out there.

Well, and this just happened, to be honest. If you saw the news, a girl from Dallas was lured by a guy on social media, ended up a thousand miles away in North Carolina and she was found in his shed.

Oh my gosh, she's alive.

I mean she was obviously, you know, she was assaulted and everything else, but she was 14 and I can't imagine.

That I have a 14 year old girl. I have a 13 year old girl and I could have been that girl. I got, you know, I could have been that girl. Yeah, like I did those stupid things. So parents, I did too. Listen.

Yeah, I chatted, I chatted online when, you know, AOL was something, you know, and I was chatting with total strangers sexually telling them where we lived, telling him where you live. And I'm thinking, I am lucky to be alive.

Me too.

That's God's mercy on me for real.

Because you had to be alive. So now you can tell other parents, right?

Yeah, yeah, I really feel that way.

I do too. And it's just amazing how many things we're not aware of.

Totally. So here's another question. So some parents have expressed concern that sharing their own history with their kids in some way will basically give their kids permission to kind of behave the same way. And so what advice do you give to parents when it comes to them sharing their sexual history with their kids?

Truthfully, I think it can only help your kids to be honest about your experiences because you can speak from experience and say, this thing hurt me like it hurt me and it hurt my marriage, it hurt my future marriage, it hurt my relationships with other people, it hurt my relationship, my relationship with the Lord. Like this hurt me. I thought I was do. I thought I was having fun. I thought I was just doing what I wanted and I was free to do it. But it actually was painful and it hurt me. I didn't realize how much it hurt me until, you know, I was older. But it's provide. It's, it's really caused harm in my life. And so I think if you can tell your kids that you have, you have walked in the same footsteps or that they're walking in your footsteps that you have, you have already walked. I don't think you're doing any favors by keeping your story a secret because you have really the clout to say, you know, I have done this, I have seen this, I've experienced this, so I know what I'm talking about. As opposed to pretending like you didn't and just telling them not to do something again goes back to that. Why? Why not do it? Because this happened. This is how it affected me. And I've seen this happen to me or my husband or your dad, like, and being able to share that I think is invaluable.

I could not agree with you more. And I. And so I think that was the question. That was the question I was supposed to ask you before you came on to make sure that we were on the same page so that you didn't say something totally counter to. But I didn'.

Busy.

Okay. So I'm so glad that you answered it that way. And I'm just kidding, you guys. We don't actually do that. I just, I don't know what Trevor does, but. Yeah, but I was like, oh, I hope I. As I'm writing that I'm. I was so curious because I know you do such good work with women and teens and so I, I wanted you to share your perspective on this, but I was curious, would you say the same thing? Because I am such a die hard believer that we don't keep our stories and yes, share them age appropriately, but if we have this mindset of, oh, it's gonna, you know, I don't want to expose them to that. The world is gonna teach them. They're gonna learn from somebody. So if it's not coming from us, then they are absolutely gonna learn from the world. And my boys, because I was a teen mom and I had my twins at 18 years old, they tried like three times to throw that in my face when I, when they say, oh, we're going to Boise, first date with a bunch of friends, girls and boys in a van, and we're getting two hotel rooms and the cool mom's taking us. And I'm like, okay, well, I don't know if I'm okay with that. And I need to call the cool mom and like, Be talking about what this looks like. And they're like, mom, we're 19, you had us at 18, we're already doing better than you. Which I do say that to myself like, okay, good job. I at least graduated them and you.

Know, got them past 18.

I beat all those naysayers. But, but they say it in a joking way and I can tell that my stories with them have done work. And then I'll say, yeah, exactly, exactly. I know exactly how, what path I took to be pregnant with twins at your age, going to state with a bunch of people in the van, you know, so I need to talk to them all and figure things out. And then I've seen it with my, my daughter, like I said, kind of escaping something that could have been a terrible ring, like child sex ring type thing. And then same with my other, my other child. Just like when I share things at my age appropriate levels, all I've seen it do is bring out more conversation and have them come to me within 24 hours of that happening to them. Which is unfortunate because I feel like I'm such a guarded mom. I don't let them, you know, go into people's houses that I don't know. But things can happen anywhere. I mean, daylight anywhere. So in your bedroom, because you're online and so just making sure that we're having those conversations. And then with the twins, I said the same thing that you said kind of about the clout, like, okay, you are literally my little offspring. And the first time I shared that I've told this story before about Kairos, he was like, what? You haven't done anything. You're just a Christian mom, you know. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I've done all the things and that's why I'm here to tell you that you're, you know, I get where you're coming from. And I think that just took him and I to a really deep level of, you know, transparency and conversation and, and just I think it opened his eyes. Like, I'm a normal person. If you have me up on a pedestal, if you have anybody on a pedestal besides Jesus, they're going to let you down terribly and you're just going to feel like you can't talk with them. So yeah, parents tell your stories. And another thing is you kind of have to be able to tell your story in a coherent way. You know, if you haven't worked through your story, then it's going to come out and in like daggers. Before I worked through my Story, I would just be like, no, you can't spend the night there. You can't do this. And then once I told the boys more of what happened to me and my childhood sexual curiosity that I had when I was little, they're like, well, now some of your crazy rules make more sense. And I felt like that was a victory. Like, my crazy rules make sense, okay. But I had to work through my story first.

Well, and I think that that is such a huge part of it, too. And because when we work through our stories, it also gives us the language to use to convey that information. Because the way that you said, Crystal, that this hurt me, that this created pain in my life, and I thought I was having fun, but this is the fallout from what that experience created in me, that even as an adult, I still carry that. I was also a super protective parent when my kids were little. And even just recently, one of my sons was saying something about that, like, yeah, you never let us do anything, and you never let us spend the night. And I was able to say to him, you know what? Sometimes pain and trauma can happen to you in, like, two minutes, and you never get that two minutes back ever. And it totally changes your life forever. And as an adult, and he's married, but for him, even just the expression on his face was that he could totally understand what I was saying in a way that he couldn't understand when he was young, you know, a teenager, and all I was doing was restricting his fun. But for him to be able to recognize that that's what it looks like. You know, you might not understand it when you're a kid, but your parent, when they put all these crazy rules in place, it's because they're trying to protect you from something that you have no idea the damage and pain that it can create. Yeah, absolutely.

World is a big, scary, scary place. But I think the more we vocalize things, the more we just call it out, you know, call it out and not be afraid of it. So, okay, we've talked about parents. Do you have any suggestions for churches or church leaders to be a safe place for teens? So that one, their message is not harming teens or keeping them stuck, which is part of my experience, but also if somebody comes forward, how should church pastors respond? Because you have that balance, and I'm sure you've experienced it as a coach and a counselor, where you want to empower the parent. You want to be a safe person. What would you suggest a pastor or leader do if they come across a teen that's struggling, that comes to them.

That's a much larger conversation in terms of the church and the church talking about porn and talking about sex. And of course, I'll use this platform right now and say the church doesn't do enough because, you know, God created sex. He loves sex. He made to be pleasurable. He had, he intended for it to be pleasurable. And yet we've allowed the world to teach our kids about sex instead of the church teaching the kids about sex and teaching adults about sex, frankly, what it should and shouldn't be. So that's the first thing is that get back to seminary and, and read your Bible about sex and really, and really share from the pulpit, from live from the stage about healthy biblical, marital sexuality.

Yes.

And that happened. And that can happen in youth groups as well. I mean, I think it needs to happen in youth groups as well where that conversation about again, what is sex? What is porn? How is porn not sex? How is porn not biblical? You know, all these things is important because if you're, if you're talking about these things just like a parent, if you're talking to your, your children about these things, when they see it, they will come to you and say, hey, I was exposed. I saw this. And I'm, you know, it's the same thing happens in, in a, in a church environment, right? If you're talking about it and you're talking about it in a shame free way where you're talking about it with an open invitation of grace and saying, you know, this, this is out there. The world wants you to see this, the world wants you to experience this. The world wants you to be addict. When you are speaking that in a youth group setting or even age appropriately in the younger, like middle school youth group level too is really important. Then if that child doesn't feel safe to go to their parent because their parent hasn't talked to them about it, then they'll remember, oh, well, Pastor, whoever talked about this a couple weeks ago, I can talk to them about it. And so it's again, it's an open dialogue, open conversation and providing a safe space really, just by talking about it and by talking about it, you're talking about it not just to the boys, right. But you're talking about it to the girls as well. Girls and boys struggle with pornography. Men and women wrestle with pornography. And it's not just about men. It's not just a Father's Day sermon. Like it is. Like it is, it is. Every person in the crowd could have this Struggle. And that's really important too. And so with regard to church, it really is providing that safe space by creating a conversation. And then do you have something in place for them to, to go to go to? Like, you know, many churches thankfully are starting to create some support group models, whether it's celebrate recovery or just other, other curriculum where if you're wrestling with addiction, you have a safe place to go to work on that addiction issue or work on that struggle. And the same thing can happen in a youth group environment where you're providing a. That's for example, like my book 90s to wholeness could easily be a 12 week study for girls on pornography. So there's things you can do where you're doing a study together. You have a safe space to have those conversations. And I think you have to.

Yeah. And sometimes even just having this space just in, like you're saying, just invites the conversation. And I know when I led teen girls, it wasn't even as much about the material. Even though the material is very important, please make sure it's like a good material. But once you just invited that conversation and they knew you were a safe person, they just wanted to talk and share. Because unfortunately, sometimes I see that the parent is the abuser, the sexual abuser. And so the church has this burden to teach all of God's word and to teach all aspects of life. And sex is such a huge part of life. And so I am on Crystal soapbox with her that the churches and leaders, if you do not have something and you're not talking about it, to please reach out so we can help you. That is so important.

It is so important. And I don't know as much about like the girls. Cause even with my kids and with sons, she's a boy mom. I am a boy mom. Yeah. And so, but, and their struggles are like you said earlier, it's different, it looks different. Which I think is an important thing for parents to even know too. But, but I know, I think that there's a lot more that church leaders could do to just kind of create that safe space. That's the first most important thing even. I mean, of course having good curriculum too, but just being able to say, yeah, this is what it is, and let's chat. Yeah, super. Good. So, Crystal, it's been so great to have you here today on our podcast. And so just to wrap up, what final last bit of encouragement would you give our listeners today?

Yeah, I will speak to the parent who's listening, who maybe is wrestling with how Do I have a conversation? Do I have a conversation? Because I'll. I'll just say this to my mom. She did everything she thought she should do with my brothers in mind. It wasn't, she wasn't thinking about it in terms of me. And so I wasn't watched as closely as my brothers were when it came to pornography, when it came to what I was looking at, what I was watching. And so the safeguards were in place, but not to the point in which they needed to be in terms of me as the daughter. And so you can have all the restrictions in the world, like the filters, the accountability softwares, the codes that, you know that the, the timers, everything. You can have all of that. And it's not going to be enough, which is why it's more, More than restriction. It's conversation. Because you have to have the conversation with your kids because they don't even know that stuff's locked down or why. And so if they, they can still find it, they can still get, because they can still be captured by this stuff. So more than restriction, you need communication. And don't be passive, be proactive is really the best advice I can give.

That's such.

It's so good.

Yes.

I heard you say it's not just restrictions, it's the conversation, that relationship with them. And so for parents, because we do have a lot of parents that listen and call and ask, you know, how do I do this or that? We have so many resources for you. So if you're feeling a little convicted or tug on your heart that you need to maybe start talking with your kids more, it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for even us that do it all the time. Right. It's always uncomfortable. So. But you still need to do it. And the more you do it, the more it will become just natural conversation. And you, you're. You're giving your kids such a benefit and there's so many resources, so you can definitely reach out. I mean, we have how to talk to your kids, how to talk with your kids about sex. We have crystals, resources for teens. We have behind the Mask for teen girls and Living Free for young guys. There's just a lot. But also, like we said, if you're struggling with something, reach out to us. Because one of the best things you can do is get yourself healthy and work through your own struggles, and then you'll organically have so much more in your tool belt to be able to help your child that you can just sprinkle throughout your conversations when there's opportunities, and I think that's kind of the best method.

So that is so good and I love how you keep bringing it back to helping your kids understand the why that's so good.

Well, Crystal, thank you so much for spending time with us today and for the work that you do.

Well, thanks for having me. So good to be with you today.

Wherever you're at on your journey, Pure Desire is here to help you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. If you or someone you know needs recovery or healing, go to PureDesire.org and begin the journey today. If you like this episode or a fan of the podcast, please share it with others. Make sure to check out the full episode on YouTube as well. And lastly, never stop being healthy.