337 - ‘Tis The Season: Proactive Self-Care

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. Happy almost Christmas. Or really whatever day. You're listening to this. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 337 of the Pure Desire podcast here. Joining me as always, not wearing an ugly sweater, Nick Stumbo.

I don't want a lot for Christmas. There is just one thing I need. I don't need to care about the presents. He's looking at the lyrics.

He's looking at him right now. Oh, my gosh.

Okay. All I want for Christmas, everybody now is you. I dun, dun, dun.

I know. Didn't I tell you last episode that that's my least favorite Christmas song?

Maybe shouldn't have told me that.

Oh, my gosh. I thought I told you that.

Confidence. I have a feeling now.

Oh, no.

You're gonna be walking in to the our offices, like, every morning, like, dang it, why is Mariah Carey on again? And then from your office, we'll know. There'll be blaring Fel Navidad.

Oh, yeah, that's true.

You don't like that one Turnabout is fair play.

I'm not that petty. I also really do not.

If I was playing Mariah Carey, you're telling me you wouldn't pull out? Come on.

Oh, I know that's.

I.

It would be tempting. I'll say that. At least people who know me. I do not like Christmas music. Not at all. So I'm not Question, though, if you.

Could pick a favorite. Like, what's one song you do like hearing or appreciate at least once during Christmas?

Oh, Mary. Did you know? Is the one. Was his name Clay Aiken? Was that his name? Was the guy from. Wasn't he from American Idol? Yeah. Who played. Who had that?

He wasn't the original.

No, but I. Man, I love.

He has a great version.

I love that. Yeah, that song.

Yeah, that song's gotten ripped on. But I think the heart behind it was a good. It was kind of a cool idea, like going back to that teenage virgin girl and saying, do you realize what's going on? And how cool is this? And.

And even on a technical, because I was a worship pastor for 10 years at a technical level, that song is very difficult to sing.

So evidently, so is Mariah Carey, because in my head, it sounded way better. And then I realized when I try to sing some of these tunes out loud that I've never sung, like, you're just. You're not on the right key. And it. I can hear it all in my head, but, man, my apologies for those that are cringing.

Did you bring one of those little key things?

I have one. I do have one, honestly, from my quartet days.

I don't know if you can tell, but we're recording this on a Friday afternoon and it is feeling it right now. Okay, so we'll wrap in Mariah Carey, I'm sure. But we had Kelly Johnston on, who is our. On our women's online groups coordinator. And I got that right? Correct?

Yes.

Yes. Okay, perfect. So Kelly, it was her first time on the show. She did awesome. And we're in our third week of the Tis the season series, and we're talking about proactive self care.

Yeah. Well, quick promo. If you are a woman looking for a community in an online group, Pure Desire has groups for women who struggle with unwanted sexual behavior and desires and groups for women who've been betrayed. And Kelly's the gal. They can get you plugged in. They show up on our website when they're open, and then when they're full, they go off the website. So if you're looking for one, find it. Get in and get your spot before they fill up because we have dozens of them that are meeting, but only a few open at a time.

Put the link in the show notes, too.

Kelly's doing a great job running those. It was super good to have her as a guest for the first time. And I think that Mariah Carey song all I want for Christmas is you. When we think about self care, really other people, when it comes to their relationship with us, really what they want is the best version of us. Right? I mean, let's be honest. They don't want the grumpy side of us. They don't want us being complaining about whatever, overspending or why do we have to go to all these? So during Christmas, we're all challenged, I think, in different ways or times to bring the best version of ourselves into the conversation or into relationships. And so how could we utilize the power of self care to bring the best version of us and that people are glad when we walk into the room. And maybe it's not all they want for Christmas, but from us. That would be a gift to bring the best version of us into this season.

All I want for Christmas is to never hear that song again. Okay. But it is a great episode. Kelly did such a good job and there is a lot of good stuff in there before we get to it. Subscribe to the podcast we're on all the major platforms. And I said it at the end of the episode. I'm also gonna say it here now, that you should share this with somebody. Someone who maybe is struggling to implement self care, feels like it's selfish. Give it to him. This is the right one. Also, follow us on social media.

Try not to be passive aggressive. Yeah. Like we said, also either be aggressive.

Aggressive or just kind. Also follow us on social media. Earedesirepdmi and then with that, here is our third episode in our tis the season series on proactive self care during the holidays. Kelly Johnson, thank you so much for being here and welcome for the first time. Even though you are a staff member, this is your first time on the podcast. Thanks for being here.

You're welcome.

We're pumped to have you.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, we're totally pumped to have you. And I didn't tell you this before, but like, I was talking to some of our groups team. It was like, I need someone. I think I was talking to Ashley or Emmanuel. They've both been on the show. I was like, hey, would Kelly be good at self care? And both of them were like, oh, yeah, let's do it. Let's 100% use Kelly. So we're gonna do that today. We're gonna lean into your experience there. But the holiday season is moving right along. We're smack dab in the middle of all the celebrations, all the Christmas music. Bleh. And all the things that are leading up to Christmas day. And this can mean lots of stress for people, struggles with family, and obviously an array of other potential issues. An important aspect of the recovery and healing journey is self care. And today we're gonna look at how to be proactive with our self care during this season. That can be so stressful, and there are, you know, not a lot of boundaries and our schedule's wonky and all of this stuff, so we're gonna lean into that. But first, Kelly, this being your first time on the podcast, and there may be some people who, outside of the online group community, don't know much about you. So will you kind of introduce a little bit to our listeners?

Absolutely. I was gonna say, you betcha and give away where I'm from.

Yeah.

So I'm the Midwest girl. I live in Wisconsin, but pretty much grew up in Minnesota and Wisconsin, so. But yeah, I've been here my whole life, and I have been a part of Pure Desire in several different ways. Started back in 2015, starting to lead groups in my church. Started with Betrayal and Beyond. After PDU weekend at our church. Just kind of similar to Ashley's story. It's like, yeah, we need a group. Might as well be me. So I started leading Betrayal and Beyond with very little experience. And then our ministry quickly grew into unraveled. We had some men's groups and really got connected to pure desire to know how to. To really create a ministry that was a little bit more intentional, I guess. So. Been leading groups in my church. Just started another group last night, actually, and going into my ninth year.

That's awesome.

And I was a trip advisor for about three and a half years before I came on staff. So I've just celebrated my year anniversary here. Yeah, Just super excited. A little surreal sometimes that this is where I landed, but I'm super thankful for it.

Wisconsin, but not a Packers fan. Just like to be really clear, right?

Yeah. Which is ironic. She's from Wisconsin and not a Packers fan. You've never been to Wisconsin and you are a Packer.

That's not true. I have been to Wisconsin.

I've never been to a.

That's right. Or a game.

Or a game.

But if there's a listener out there who wants to gift me a game.

I would love you forever. Yeah, I, you know, we met. Met Kelly, I think before I was even on staff full time as the director. I was still a pastor when we did PDU at her church, and we met her there. And it's just been really neat, Kelly, to watch your journey, you know, to watch you have all the questions that people have the first time about group and betrayal and what do we do? And then just to keep hearing like, oh, their church is running more groups and, oh, Kelly's leading it. Because I remember that, like, you were very interested, but you did not feel like you were the person to lead it. But kind of for a lack of others taking the reins, you're like, well, if no one else will do it, here we go. And it just felt like every time I would hear about your church, you guys were taking more steps forward. And I think you really are, you know, so for those who want to reach out to Kelly, you really are a testimony to. You don't have to have all the answers. Just do the next thing and see how God uses it. And now Kelly's, you know, leading lots of groups and other leaders at her church, and she's on staff, so. Yeah, we're really excited, Kelly, to get to our topic today. I know this might seem a little elementary for a few of our listeners, but. But just to make sure. We're all starting on the same page. Let's talk about a definition of self care. What is self care and what does it look like?

Well, as you get to know me, you'll find out I'm a word junkie, so I love words. I do a lot of word studies and I just. I really wanted to look up a definition and I kind of threw like two or three of them together and made this definition. I said it's the ability and practice of taking action through self awareness and self control with the intent to achieve, preserve, promote or improve one's own health and well being. That's a big mouthful. I know, but there's so much in self care, and I just thought that kind of encompassed it all.

Yeah, yeah. Self care is. And the reason why it's something, you know. Again, this series is trying to take a positive bent to what can be such a stressful time of year for people who are in recovery and healing is that self care is such an important piece that we're like, pouring into ourselves like that. We are, you know, prioritizing our own health. And it can be. I mean, self care can mean so many different things, but taking care of your body, what do you eat? What do you spend your time doing? What are the hobbies that bring life to you and your relationships, what are rhythms that help improve your relationship with the Lord? There's just so many different things. But. But that's what's so great, is that self care can be super customizable to who you are. And that's what makes it fun when figuring it out. But I know it can be definitely challenging for people to figure it out.

Yeah, yeah. When I think of a definition of self care, I think there's the reality that if we only do what comes naturally, if we only do the easy thing, we'll actually gravitate away from healthy things. Because the easy thing is usually the sugary food. It's not exercising, it's avoiding hard situations or difficult decisions. And if we just consistently do that over time, we will be very unhealthy. And so in a sense, to me, self care is any choice we make to move towards health in our life, to do something intentional or proactive or a little out of our ordinary, you know, easy routines, to do something, to work on a better version of us. And if we're doing that, I really think it can be self care. And it looks like a million different things for a million different people. But if the goal is to be proactive about moving towards Health, we could define that as a form of self care.

Yeah. So Kelly, let's press into that. So oftentimes we can see self care as something that's like reactive when something goes bad. Okay, how do I retreat and take care of myself? Bring care to me. But how do we practice being proactive with our self care? What does that look like?

You know, I think you guys made some really good points there about, you know, it can be something that's, you know, like getting a massage. Some people think of the more frivolous things, but I also think of all the really practical day to day things. I know last night in our unraveled group, our first night, the first thing we look at is our sleep patterns. What are your consistents in your sleeping? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you going to bed on time? Are you waking up at a reasonable time? What are the things that are keeping you from getting to bed on time? So when I think about being proactive, I think it kind of comes to like a shift in our perspective. And you guys brought up like food. And for me this has been part of my journey as well. So I think about it, if we gain 10 pounds and then we're like, oh, I need to start doing something to create better habits in my life. And then we start exercising and we start, you know, being intentional about what we're putting in our body and we're constantly like doing that catching up game. We can do that in our spirituality too. If we only pray and we only get in the word when life is hard, we're going to find that things are not going to go as well for us where if we were intentional in our food journey, in what we're putting in our body on a regular basis, we're not going to have these deep dips where our weight gain is out of control and the same in our spiritual walk, you know. So I think self care in all of these areas, if we're just taking it one little step at a time and we're being more consistent with it, it's in the long run it's just going to kind of even things out for us in our life and we're not going to have those deep emotional dips and just the extra stress that we have, especially in the holidays.

You know, the word that comes to mind for me when I think of proactive self care is the word rhythms. What are the rhythms that I'm establishing in my life that I know create health, create margin, create space for God and relationships. And we see this all the way back into the beginning of creation. And in Genesis 1 and 2, that God gives this intentional rhythm of Sabbath and of resting from his work on the seventh day and then telling the people of Israel, you know, six days you can work, but then rest. And this rhythm of I have to have times where I'm able to take a break from work. And so for me, like, there's a lot of intentionality. Now, I'm not as intentional about the Sabbath concept as, you know, some could train me in that. But like, when it comes to taking work home on the weekend, those of you that know me at pd, I don't do it. I don't reply to emails. I mean, yeah, if there have been times crisis has happened or emergencies come up, or we're doing events on weekends, but in general, like when I leave Friday afternoon, it's like, I'll see you Monday and whatever needs to happen can wait. And so for me, I know that's part of my self care that otherwise I get too wrapped up in work. I don't engage with my family, I'm always on. And now I could probably use some similar rhythms with how do I also pause from work at home and just that feeling of always being doing something. But that's just something I think about that maybe we might be tempted to undervalue to just say, well, yeah, of course I take the weekends off and I don't work well. No, that is a form of self care that you're seeing. I'm a healthier person when I do this. So for me, that also includes making sure I get out on a run three to five days a week. And I know not everyone runs other people. It might be the gym or other cardio or biking or just a walk or getting out and playing fetch with the dog. Rhythms like that. Right now I'm getting my heart rate up, I'm getting some sustained cardiovascular work. It's just gonna make me a better person the rest of the week. I'm able to deal with stress better. I'm more resilient, and I don't wait until I'm stressed out to go for a run. I mean, sometimes I do. That can be a way to manage stress. But I just know, hey, I want to be in a healthy headspace. Getting regular exercise makes a big difference. So what are the rhythms that for you support self care and then may be really pertinent to this episode? If we see that we have those rhythms, how do we make sure we don't totally abandon them during Christmas Because I think that's what happens to way too many people. They have good rhythms. And then Christmas comes and holidays and vacations and Christmas parties and cookie trays and their favorite candies back in the store. And it's just like, there go all of my healthy rhythms. And I get that we might adjust some of them, but how could we hold on to the rhythms that we know are crucial for us? Because that really becomes sustainable self care.

Yeah. And proactive is really just planning ahead. And so if you know that you're gonna have. And this is. Man, maybe this is silly, but, like, you know that there's gonna be tons of food and tons of sugar and whatever at the celebration. What if you just ate something healthy before you went over? What if you knew you had something that was on plan? And, Kelly, I'm in the same boat. I've been on that journey for a while, too, with food. It's definitely something I can numb out with. Like, that's a proactive step you're taking to care for yourself so that when you get there, you aren't as hungry and you don't want to dive into, you know, the pumpkin pie or whatever you're eating. Not that I would do that, but I totally would. But it's something that, you know, like, for me, that's part of my self care rhythm anyway. But then taking even more proactive steps during the holidays when, you know, things aren't as rhythmic when it comes to schedule and food and who you're spending time with.

Well, this is something that I have on my three circles exercise. You know, those. Those behaviors and those outer circles. Maybe you need to do one specifically for the holiday and just like giving yourself some guidelines for what are those healthy rhythms that you want to keep through the holidays. And, yeah, I mean, that's something I do regularly, but yeah, specifically in the holiday, because if we're not, it's a slippery slope down slippery slack.

Yeah. And then we start to say, well, January, I'll be better. January I'll do better. And maybe we do, but why, you know, why wait? I love that idea, Kelly. Why not pull out a blank three circles tool, and fill one out just for the holidays and kind of call it like, this is my holidays three circle plan. And it might look a little different, might have some unique things on it because, you know, of the unique challenges you'll face. So, Kelly, for a lot of people, self care is really challenging. Just how do I find the time? How do I find the space? Maybe they're a Young mom or a busy working parent or they just have tons of responsibilities, like I don't have time. So how do we overcome that feeling that self care is too much work, too hard to do and that we maybe feel selfish doing it because it feels like, well, I should be helping other people now I'm taking time for me. How do we navigate the challenges that come with self care?

I really think if we look at self care as an investment, that kind of changes the game. And again, I did a little pre work on that word, an investment. This is really cool. An act of devoting time, effort or energy to a particular undertaking, behavior or undertaking or behavior with the expectation of a worthwhile result. So it's like remember what you're working for. What are you, what are you trying to accomplish by having this self care in your life and reminding yourself that you're just investing in yourself, you're investing in creating for you and higher environment? You know, I think about, I've had a couple of women in our betrayal and beyond group ask questions about how do I stand firm? This is a little bit of a left turn here, but how do I stand firm in my safety action plan and in enforcing something that's happened when there's been an infraction in that. So like how do I practically stand in that? When maybe I have feelings of guilt that my husband's sleeping in the other room or he's still gaslighting me through this or just making life miserable. Like how do I stand in this boundary? Because I think boundaries are part of self care 100%. So like how do I stand in that? And again, keeping that perspective of this is an investment in your marriage, it's an investment in your husband's recovery, it's an investment in you feeling safe. So it's like it's kind of just shifting that perspective and reminding yourself what the goal is, what are you working towards? So I think that comes in a lot of ways even in creating a less stressful holiday. I don't know if we can have a stress free holiday, but a less stressful holiday. Reminding yourself that you're creating these boundaries, you're having this time of self care because you're investing in a desired outcome.

Yeah, I know for me I struggle with the timing of self care because my wife, she has work that she does, but primarily she's a stay at home mom. And so when I get home, the thought of me doing self care is kind of feel like I'm putting her out. And so for me, what I found helpful for me is finding times of the day where I'm not putting her out, where that self care can happen. And so instead of me taking 30 minutes after I get home from work when she's prepping dinner and all the boys are doing their thing for me to work out, I do it at like 5:30 in the morning. And I know that sounds like an ungodly time of the day. It's not. It's glorious. But at 5:30 no one in my house is awake and so I'm not sacrificing that time. And the same thing, I mean, everyone on the show probably remembers me saying that like going to movies by myself is just a great form of self care for me. And so I usually wait before the boys have gone down. So again, I'm not putting my wife out. But I also think asking permission or setting up those conversations. I've had tons and tons of benefit come from those conversations with my wife where it's like, hey, I'm feeling like I really need to do something this week or I would like to find a time, you know, this week that I can go play tennis with a friend or I can go see a movie. And having those conversations helps me because she sees value in my self care as well. And she's not like, no, that's selfish, that's stupid, you should stay home. I don't get that kind of reaction. And so for me, it's almost like I'm having that conversation that gives me that permission that I can make that investment in myself. That's just what has worked for me.

Yeah, yeah, you're giving some really practical advice there and that's awesome. I wanted to back up a step because I think for some people we do have to address our mindset because if we have a mindset that does feel like, boy, these things feel selfish, then you know, having those conversations is hard to do. And so I think addressing our mindset, you know, I would give again the illustration for me from running that if I'm trying to run, you know, let's say 30 miles a week, which I know for some that's crazy, but like that, that'd be normal for me. But if, let's say I tried to do it all on the same day, it would be grueling, my pace would get way, way slow. I'd be in a lot of pain. I would, when it was over, I would be down and out for days, like unable to walk very well. Like, like it would just be really, really difficult. And I Think sometimes in our lives we're like that. We're like, I'm just gonna keep running because people need me. I got stuff to do. Too much responsibility, not realizing that we're actually creating lesser results. We're being less active, we're being less engaged in relationships. And if we would take appropriate breaks for self care, we actually would be better in our relationships. We'd be better as a parent, we'd be better as a spouse. We would do, you know, it's the point of not working on the weekends. It's that then Monday through Friday, I'm more engaged and better at what I do because I'm not just in this slog of I never get that self care. And so if you can think about it that way, that this will actually help me in my parenting, my relationships, my recovery plan, then I think we look for ways to make it happen. And that mindset shift can just be a real game changer. So, so figure out where do I take the breaks, have those conversations, but knowing it's so that there's a. So that in it. It's so that I bring a better version of myself into all those other places.

KELLY and this is, you know, obviously we can be really specific maybe to things that we each have, but what kind of encouragement we give to people when they're trying to figure out what qualifies as self care. Because again, it can be so unique to every situation. What are some ways we can help qualify what might be self care for me?

Yeah, that's so right on. Because I know a lot of women love to do like crafting things and knitting and scrapbooking and that's not self care. For me, that would be stressful, maybe traumatic. So, yeah, to make it your own is super important. And this is where I, I kind of feel like what I find is self care for me is this, these activities or these things that I find peace in. And I just not too long ago did a blog about shalom and that the facets of peace and that it brings in, you know, safety and security and wholeness and completeness. So just finding those things that are meaningful to you and you know, I know depending on where people are in their journey, sometimes you've, you know, you've completely lost touch with the things that bring you joy, bring you peace. So sometimes it takes a little bit of like investigating. Maybe you need to try taking a class somewhere. Maybe you've always wanted to learn how to cake decorate, so you take a cake decorating class. Or maybe I See this guitar back here? I haven't picked that up in like six months. So maybe it's in picking up something that you, you know, ignored for a while. So it's really going to be dependent on, you know, what are those things that bring you joy and bring you peace. And if you don't know, you just trying something new and just really kind of investigating, exploring who, who are you? Who did God create you to be and taking that time for yourself. But then not to over complicate it, it could be 20 minutes sitting in front of a stream watching the water rush by, or hanging out with your grand kids grandkids for this old bird or your kids just hanging out and watching them play. Maybe that's what it is that brings you joy and brings you that peace, but just really carving out that time. Kind of like Nick said, you know, don't make it something like I gotta do my self care today. Where it's like putting on that imposition, but it's just something that you get to do and you look forward to doing. For me, it's walking. I walk. I have three or four really cool roads. I live rurally and that's my time with Jesus and that is shalom for me 100%.

That's a great point, Kelly, that there may be some differentiation between self care and healthy disciplines. Healthy disciplines have a place in our life. But if it's something we have to really gear ourselves up for, we're kind of making ourselves do it because we know it's good for us. I don't know that that's always self care. Now it's wonderful if healthy disciplines and self care can go hand in hand. But I think self care does tend to be things that we gravitate to because it works, because it works for us and whatever that is, like find joy in it. And I really look forward to getting to run. Now does that mean every time I like running or getting up early or going out when it's cold, like, no, I don't always love it, but in general I look forward to it and I know, man, this works for me. For others, they might feel like, no, I have to force myself to do it. After I do, I'm grumpy, I feel spent, my legs are sore. Well, that's not going to work for you, right? And so for me, I think of one too, like golf. For some people, they would call golf self care. I love to golf, but I am too wrapped up in my performance and my score. And so if I have anyone Listening to this podcast. If I've golfed with you, I love golfing with you. But it's not self care. Because if I have a bad day, like, I'm kind of grumpy about it, it ruins my day because I'm just like, ugh. So I can't rely on something like that that gets me into my competitive nature. But on the other hand, and I can't think of a single time when I've taken 30 minutes of my day to pray, to journal, to read scripture, that I walk out of it going, ugh, that did not. You know, maybe it didn't fix all my problems, right? But I can't ever really think of a time that I regretted it or that it made my day worse.

Why do I ever do this? This is so dumb.

It's like, well, clearly that's a form of self care.

What a waste of time.

Because whenever I enter into that, it helps. And so to me, I would just ask yourself the question, and when you engage in that activity, does it help? Do you feel more alive, more present, more focused, more centered, more whatever? And if your answer is, well, yeah, it really does, then for you, that can be self care.

Yeah. I think one of the things that keeps people from trying out self care is that idea of, what if I try it and it doesn't work? And I think in this moment, like, you have permission to try and see if something is self care and you do feel that peace. But if you also do it and you, like, try golf and you're like, stumbo, or it's like, God, why do I do that? You know, Then it's like, okay, now you know, golf is in self care. Great. But I think that there's this, like, fear of failure that somehow if I try self care and it doesn't work, that somehow I'm a failure. Oh, great. I even suck at self care. That's great. You know, I can't even do something. But that's not like, the point is trying. Like the question, how do you figure it out? It's you figure it out, which takes, like, trial and error and takes putting an effort in and then knowing that that effort is going to pay off in the end because you will find things that can give you that pain.

Nick, you brought up a really cool thing. This is something that I. I'll often suggest to people to try. If they're just like, I have no idea what is self care? I'll just say, start journaling, start getting in touch with yourself. Even as you start to explore just regular feelings and emotions on a daily basis. You're going to uncover something that's a need that's missing or something there's a lack there or an emotion, but that you give yourself your own cues and clues on what you need and what it is that you find joy in or maybe what's missing. So I just think there's just so much value in journaling and really just taking the time to get in touch with yourself sometimes. That's why we don't know is because we are just on that autopilot auto drive that we haven't taken the time to really understand. What do I need? And sometimes just pausing and asking that question and taking some time to reflect, you're going to open up a whole new world.

Yeah. Yeah. Well said. So we've already talked about it a little bit. But during the holidays, during Christmas, self care can be challenged. Not everyone else has respect for it. Maybe they don't care about self care or they're in the mode of like, oh, I'll get back to that in January. What can we do during the holidays to kind of keep our eye on the ball with our self care if others aren't being very supportive of it?

Yeah, you know, I think about, there's kind of two types of people in that situation. There are those that just don't really even want to hear your perspective and those that maybe are just unsafe to hear that perspective. So I don't know. I know for me, when I need to, to if I'm not feeling like my boundaries are being respected, if at all possible to have a healthy conversation with those people, I'm going to kind of explain myself and say, hey, this is, this is why I'm choosing this. Or, or maybe it's not even an explanation, but it's just a, this is what is going to happen for me. And, and this is, this is just the way it's going to be. So just so they have the expectation. I think expectations are a big deal when it comes to self care. But again, not everybody's healthy enough to have those kind of conversations. So again, I think it comes back to that perspective of being okay to remind yourself that you are making that investment in yourself and that you are pursuing health. But the people around you may not be in a healthy place to understand why. So I just, I know, I think you, you have to be secure in the decisions that you're making to be able to stand firm in that. Again, I think people come to the holidays with like this person, maybe the firstborn has the expectation that everything's going to go this way. And the youngest in the family comes with wanting to play games and be social and the middle child comes in with a chip on her shoulder or however that works. But everybody comes into the holiday with an expectation and if we can at all communicate that proactively. Again, part of that proactive self care, we come into that holiday event with somewhat being on the same page or at least knowing each other's expectations. Because I think that one of the hardest times where challenges happen is when we all have our own expectations and they're not being met. And it's like, how are they going to be met if nobody knows what they are? So just that healthy communication if at all possible.

Yeah. I mean, I think, like, it's important to keep in mind that the boundaries and self care are for you, like, so they're not things that you're doing. Well, you could argue that I'm doing this self care so I can put up with you not liking my self care. I don't know if you know, that you could have those conversations probably won't go very well. But I do think that it's important to keep that perspective, that the reason I'm drawing this boundary or the reason I'm implementing this proactive step of self care is so that I can maintain health. And again, these are rhythms we're putting in place. They're things we're practicing on a regular basis. But yeah, I mean, I remember when Amy and I started Sabbathing, we had friends that just did not, for whatever reason, didn't like it and thought it was dumb and silly and I mean, it was really challenging for me at the time. But over time it's just like, it's something that we committed to and we've seen a lot of fruit from. And like, that's what we were after. We were after that it was gonna slow our family down. It was gonna give us more presence with each other and with the Lord. It was gonna, you know, not overstress or overstretch our family. So I think to some degree, like, well, here's what I've seen. I've seen that sometimes and I've even seen this from me toward other people that if they're doing something that I feel convicted by sometimes I can react and be like, I know I should be doing that, but I'm not going to admit that. So I'm just going to tell them they're stupid, you know, like something like that. It's very normal and very human behavior. And so maybe just, you know, do some journaling on that. Figure out where your self awareness is and maybe, I don't know, just don't take too much responsibility for how other people view your self care. I just don't think that that's beneficial.

Yeah, yeah. There's a part of this where we have to understand that it's not other people's job to support our needs for self care. I mean, hopefully there will be a few people that do that really care about us. But in general, that's not what other people are thinking about. And we may need to ask ourselves the question, why am I needing everyone to understand my needs for self care? I think about in my life, you know, really there's. There's kind of our. My inner circle, my wife, my kids, people I feel really close to. Well, yeah, I want to have conversations with them. I want them to understand what my needs are. But if they're not in that inner circle, other friends, acquaintances, people in my small group, like, I don't need them to understand. And maybe that's an area I need to let go of other people's expectations. And so if, if I'm leaving a party early and someone asks why and I say I need to head to bed and they're like, dude, come on, just. It's like, sorry, gotta go. And if they don't understand, it's like, okay, maybe that's part of my journey is I need to learn to not manage people's expectations of me, to not try to have everybody think well of me. And if, if they don't understand something I need, that's okay, I can let go of that. That's a them thing, not me. Now, I'm not saying be rude about it or act like a jerk in how you treat people, but if you are practicing some healthy rhythms of self care and others that aren't in that immediate circle don't really understand, to just have peace with it, like that's not their job to. And I'm going to know what I need and I'm going to pay attention to that. Whether it's December 25th or June 3rd, no matter what the calendar says, I know what I need to be a healthy version of me. And to the best of my ability, I want to live that out. And if others do or don't understand, I'm not going to get too wrapped up in that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Kelly, let's press into this part of it. What if something that we're Doing for self care or to meet our own needs has a negative impact on other people. How do we navigate like that? How do we figure out is this actually a good thing that they're just overreacting to? Or how do I know this is something that I need to make a change because it is really hurting somebody else?

Yeah, that's a really good question. Yeah, I think about again, if somebody's like, how do you know it's affecting somebody negatively? Have they come to you and said, hey, why are you doing this? Then yeah, having a conversation and maybe there is something that you can modify in what you're doing that's affecting somebody negatively if that's the case. But I kind of lean more towards Nick and what he was just saying. Like, you know what? This is what I need to be healthy. And maybe it's making them uncomfortable because they don't have healthy boundaries. Maybe it's they're feeling left out or that you're not catering to them for whatever reason. But as I. All I could think about in this, this question is my daughter. My daughter has some of the most amazing healthy boundaries. You know, she's got five almost, she's due any day with her six baby and she's fantastic with making. Just being able to say no, that doesn't work for me. No, we're going home for nap time and no, I need to just, just be here for my family. And, and I know that makes some people uncomfortable, but man, I love it. And she's such an example to me. I absolutely, I mean she's the epitome. Every time I answer that question in my books about like, who is a, a good representation of boundaries, say my daughter. She's amazing. So I don't know that maybe didn't completely answer the question. But again, I just think dialogue, you know, we got to be able to be real with each other and to share. But again, like Nick said, if, if you don't get it and you don't understand, this is what I need. And it's okay that we maybe just agree to disagree. I think about there's a meme or something on Facebook that says in re in regards to boundaries. Like the only person who gets frustrated with your boundaries is the person that they're meant for. So I don't know.

But that is very true.

Maybe a sign there. Yeah. With this question, you know, I'm assuming the conflict maybe is with someone that's more in my inner circle. My spouse, my kids, people that really deserve a level of communication. From me. And if it's having a negative impact on them, it may be that we haven't communicated very well about our needs or when is an appropriate time to pursue it. You know, back to our examples. Yeah, my wife knows running is a form of self care for me. But if it's like the middle of a family gathering, I'm like, well, going for a run, see you later. And it's like, why did Nick just take off? Or you say to your wife, you know, well see you later, I'm going to a movie. And it's four in the afternoon and the family's coming over at seven and she's like, seriously, like what, what are you doing? And so if there's not been communication, if we're only looking at what's good for us and not thinking through how does this fit with what's happening? Then we have to be aware. Well, maybe I'm being kind of selfish in how I'm practicing self care. So the communication of, hey, what are the plans for today? What, what is this? You know, as we have some family over, what does it look like schedule wise? Where would be appropriate times for me to take that walk, go for the run, hit the gym, call the friend, do my group lesson, you know, whatever it is, Figuring out what is a time that works so that the people that we do kind of owe that responsibility of communication to feel like they can be on the same page with us. And the other thing I would say about it, there are tendencies we all have towards some self blindness that maybe there are places where self care does seem to go into just abandoning responsibilities or being a little selfish. And if it's someone that loves us that is in that inner circle, we need to be open to their perspective. So if they say, hey, honey, I appreciate that you run for self care, but I'm questioning why you need four hours today. Could you maybe do something shorter or, you know, this is the third day.

In a row how long you run?

No, I just want to. Okay, maybe some marathon training phases in the past. But you hear if you were saying three days in a row, I'm going to a movie, going to. And you're. And a spouse starts saying, hey, could we talk about where's the balance between what self care and where you're just doing something you enjoy because yeah, it's easy and you don't have to be around our kids or you don't have to see my family or you don't have to help go buy the Christmas present. So if we are practicing self care in a way that's leaving others feeling like we're just escaping. Then again, we need to be open to their perspective and be aware that maybe I am using a healthier activity for some unhealthy purposes like my past of avoiding work, avoiding responsibility, avoiding whatever you know, I should be doing instead.

Right.

And allowing people to have that honest conversation with us.

And that's why being proactive is so helpful. You're looking ahead. And this is a thing where you know, when the celebration it's not like, I mean, I guess this isn't necessarily true. Some people have family show up just like, surprise, we're here for a Christmas celebration.

But usually not. There's a plan.

Normal people, I don't know what that means, but have, you know, this is the date our family's getting together. If you know that that's true, then put like, you know, the days leading up to it in and around that time where you can say, hey, I know this is gonna be a really stressful time for you. What does self care look like for you? You know, to your spouse? What does it look like for you leading up to it or after? And the same thing for me. And so it's planning. It's literally putting a game plan together to implement self care with the benefit. Right. Again of an investment in us that we can be healthier in these. And that's why we're talking about it is because there are situations during the holidays where it's really easy to not be healthy.

And so again, planning and maybe especially at the holidays, look for opportunities where your self care could adjust a little to include other people.

Yeah.

You know, I found having one of my kids that participates in things I enjoy made it a lot easier to do self care. So, you know, having a daughter that loved running and having a plan like, hey, 9am tomorrow we're doing our run. It was really easy for my wife to be on board because she supported the father daughter time. She liked seeing our daughter stick to her running plan. And it was kind of like something that we did together. And so maybe for you it's taking that walk with a family member, taking one of our kids to the movie or whatever it is we do. Like, is there a way? And I know that's not everything, like you can't always invite people into your time of journaling and prayer or that sort of thing.

Not inviting my six year old to watch John Wick 4.

Exactly.

Exactly.

But a lot of our activities could maybe include, hey, I'm Going to do this with someone, it's good for me and its connection. And if it's our spouse, that much better because then they can feel included. To that point. Kelly, how might our self care be helpful to our spouses, to family or close friends? I think sometimes we think self care, well, it's for me. But give us perspective. How is our self care actually for other people as well?

Yeah, you know, we're just better humans when we take care of ourselves and that overflows everywhere we are. I don't know if this is a quote or if I heard it in a message, but it said, if I'm not in the word for one day, I know it. If I'm not in the word for two days, my wife knows it or my spouse. If I'm not in the word for three days, my kids know it. If I'm not in the word for four days, everybody knows it. I think that's like the measure of self care. So like leading up to family event, you might not want to be like slacking the week before because you're going to be a mess. And yeah, I just think we are better. We when we invest in ourselves and we're taking the time for ourselves, we have way more to give other people. You know, it's like fill your cup so it spills over to other people. But yeah, we're just way better humans when we do it. And that's across the board.

Totally. And I think too, like as you're prioritizing self care in your life, you start to identify, oh yeah, my spouse needs it and maybe my family needs it and my friends need it. And so it's easy because in some ways you give people permission while I'm doing this, you should do this too. But then also it does open your eyes to. And I know it's been this way for me, like trying to find ways because and my wife would admit this, that she's not great at self care. And so for me, if I'm in that mindset where self care is a part of my rhythm and my days, I'm quicker to think like, hey, how can we get you out of the house? I'll take the boys, I'll do something. You go just whatever you want to do. And finding those pockets and rhythms. So I think it just heightens our awareness too to being able to encourage other people that they have this freedom as well to invest in themselves.

Well, frankly put, good self care can keep us away from relapse and old unhealthy Behaviors.

Bingo.

But the other thing I'd say as it relates to our spouses and family, that if I don't do self care, my need for care doesn't go away. Like I still have needs. And what can inadvertently happen if I'm not practicing good self care is I put that burden on the people around me. Maybe without even meaning to. But now I need you to help me feel good. I need you to bring some peace. I need you to keep my environment controlled because I'm not doing it in healthier ways. So now I'm kind of looking to pull that from other people in ways that tend to not go well and strain relationships and make family members or friends feel a little manipulated or used or like, well, why is it my job to make you feel better or you know, I'm sorry the house wasn't perfect when you got home and so you didn't feel at ease. Well, now I'm bringing those burdens with me rather than dealing with them in more constructive ways. So I think if we see like, I mean, I noticed this, for me, if I am doing self care, I don't get near as critical with my family about if I see something left, you know, out or their room is messy because those things can really, when I'm not in a good place, then those things really bother me and I get critical and I get pouty and I get moody and it's like, like, well, that's not good for anybody. And I've, in our marriage, like my wife has literally said, honey, do you need to go for a run? And it's her way of saying, like, get off everybody's back. Right? Like do what you need to so you can be present with us in a healthier way. And that's not to say I should just, you know, never care if my kids room is a mess. I mean, there's a parenting aspect there, sure. But I can just feel like when I'm starting to need you to make my environment feel good. And that's just, just that's not healthy. So if I can see that health self care benefits those relationships because it releases them from the burden of caring for me and allows me just to have healthy relationship. Yeah, man, that's a huge motive I think, for self care.

Yeah. Okay, so let's wrap this in a bow. Boom. So why is self care. That was terrible. I feel awful about myself. That was such a mistake.

Let's give one last gift to our listeners.

Okay, so why is self care so important? Like let's Land the plane. Why is during the holiday season self care such an important thing? Why are we devoting 45 minutes of a podcast to it?

Well, there's a ton of reasons. I think we've hit on a lot of them, you know, keeping ourselves in a healthy place to avoid relapse. Relapse happens a lot over the holidays because of the added stress. So it's helping us to continue in our recovery journeys. But, you know, when you just kind of strip away all of that, the holidays are just kind of the season of love. You know, we're there with family and friends, and it's a season where there's just something, you know, there's something in the air, the holiday, the Christmas spirit, whatever you want to call it. But, you know, it's just so much more enjoyable when you're not like, harboring resentments and you feeling like you're neglecting yourself or putting added pressure on other people. I mean, all of these things are going to ensure, well, maybe not insure, but are going to promote a healthy holiday where you can enjoy your family and, and grow and maybe have that healthy conversation that you've been waiting to have with that family member or at least repairing or growing your relationships. And we want to go through the holidays and have happy experiences. I'm of the age where my parents, we might not have lots of holidays left with them. I don't want them to be remembered as full of fighting or arguing or tension. I want it to be happy feelings and good memories. So, you know, if I can do my part by just being the healthiest version of me, I'm gonna do what I can to make that experience joyful. We say we survive the holidays, but what if we could just thrive through the holidays and just really come out the other side and say, wow, I didn't blink and it was over. I actually, like, savored what we got to experience this holiday.

You know, Dr. Ted Roberts called it a limbic holiday, that during the holidays we go limbic, we get into fight, flight, or freeze because there's so many situations that come up that trigger us. And when we go limbic, nobody wins. You know, there's not good that comes of that. And so self care is a major part of keeping us from going limbic and instead handling situations in a way that have the probability of a much better outcome. And so if you think about it, it if during the holidays I'm traveling to see family that I know there's been conflict, it could be triggering and I show up Stressed, overtired, you know, with poor diet choices, my brain's not in a good space. Well, how likely are those conversations are to go well? Not. Not great. Honestly, it's like it's a ticking time bomb at that point versus if I'm aware of the needs, if I'm aware that, man, I'm going into some stressful situations or I'm going to be around people that, that have a way of maybe bringing out some old and healthy stuff. But I can show up appropriately, rested in community, people that support me, feeling prayed up, to use that term, that I've been journaling about it. I'm just in a mindset like, you know what? I can handle this. I can be resilient. I can trust the Lord in those situations. And the probability of a good outcome is way, way higher. Now, there's no guarantees, but if I can do what I can do to be a good person in those situations, it just increases the likelihood of a good experience for everybody. So do what you can do and then ask for God's help in the places that you're really nervous about.

Yeah, I mean, just to boil down, I feel like I'm just taking what you're saying, but like, it's a way to show love to other people. If you are at your best, then you are bringing your best to those situations. You're not stressed, you're. You're present, you're available, you're kind, you're compassionate and warm, which, I mean, I think are things that we all want of ourselves to some degree. That's a way to show love to people. If you care for yourself, you can better care for other people when you're around them. So I think it's just, I mean, and I've heard, I'm not just using it because it's a holiday series, but I've heard this, that our health is the greatest gift we can give other people. And so why not? Why not make everyone else's experiences better by you being at your best? Kelly, I'm gonna be honest. You have done a fantastic job. Thank you so much for being on the show with us. And so we're grateful that you. This is something that seems to be such a thread in your life, and that's awesome because we know that there are people who struggle with self care all the time, but especially during the holidays. And the holidays is absolutely a time to be proactive with your self care. And we know that our conversation with you, I'm sure, encouraged a lot of people on how to better do it. So thanks for your time. Thanks for your work on you and your self care and for being with us.

Absolutely. Cue in cheesy Christmas music.

That's right for sure.

And wherever you're at, thanks for having me, you guys. It's been a lot of fun.

Absolutely. And wherever you're at on your journey, pure desire is here to help you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal. Trauma view or someone you know needs recovery and healing. Go to PureDesire.org and begin the journey today. If you like this episode or a fan of the podcast, please share it with others. Look, someone's gonna want to listen to a self care episode. You know that person who needs it? Share it with them. Make sure to check out the full episode on YouTube as well. And lastly, never stop being healthy.