339 - Breaking Free From Isolation (Principles of Recovery)

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. Good morning, or whatever time it is for you and happy New Year. I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 339 of the Pure Desire Podcast. Here joining me as always is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Hi. Yo, Silver. Away.

It feels like one of those things I should totally know, and I don't. I'm just blanking.

I feel like you should know, but there's no shame here.

Okay.

That is from the Lone Ranger.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, got it.

Which do you know, actually started as a radio show, first predated TV and then became an early television show.

They used to call those serials, I believe.

Yeah, yeah.

They would have weekly. Yeah. Oh, man. Like cereal.

Do you know. Do you know what the theme song is for the Lone Ranger?

I. I'm sure. Yep. But no.

The William Tell Overture. Yeah.

That's.

As soon as you heard that, you'd be like, oh, yeah, that's. That's the Lone Ranger.

Yeah.

So that the most, you know, I think iconic theme songs in history, because it fit and, you know, they'd play and then go, hi. Oh, Silver, away.

So it predates me. But then also the, like, the loan. That's fair. The Lone Ranger, that then was. What was it? Johnny Depp was in it and Armie Hammer. And that just was not my speed either. That was like.

Although there is a more recent movie that you and I both enjoy that it was quoted with Jim Carrey.

Okay.

You didn't know there was gonna be a trivia session.

I know. Is it. Does he say it in Bruce Almighty?

Yeah, Bruce Almighty. I think he gets that silver Corvette or convertible or whatever.

Oh, my gosh.

That's what he says in the car.

All this horsepower and no room to gallop. That's. I love that movie. Okay. I will say it's good to have you back. I know that the people who've been listening to the show, it's as if you had never left.

It's the magic of showbiz.

But you were on a couple months sabbatical. And I've said this to you in private, and I'll say it here, too. Just. I'm glad to have you back. If you just were listening the last four weeks, we recorded Justin, the December series. We recorded in August, early September, something like that.

We had to pull out the eggnog, try to get ourselves in that Christmas state of mind.

Holy cow.

Be recorded ahead.

And for someone like Me, who hates Christmas, to start doing Christmas stuff in the middle of September was a lot. But glad to have you back and man, we're starting a new year of the podcast.

Yeah, it's good. It was good to have that time. I'm grateful to the Pure Desire board for creating space for that and just recognizing the need to have. Have times of reflection and renewal. And I think it was that. And I'd say it's mostly good to be back. I've joked with some people, I think my work muscles have fatigue because I hit about day three of work and I was like, man, this is hard.

I think I was in the meeting when fatigue hit me.

Yeah, it's like my eyes were rolling back. Like, I think I need to go back on sabbatical. But no, I really feel like that was useful time and glad to be back in this rhythm and. And glad that for most of our listeners, unless they emailed me and got my autorespond saying I was on sabbatical, that they may not have missed a. Well, maybe they missed me, I don't know, but they didn't notice that I was gone. So that's hopefully a good thing.

I missed you and I'm glad that you're back. And as my gift to you, we did this episode, just you and me today, and we're starting a five week series that'll run through all of January of 2024, looking at the principles of recovery.

And.

And today we talked about breaking free from isolation.

Yeah. Yeah. I think this series is really important because we all might have the question, what makes this work? Like, what makes the difference between just behavior management, which by the way, behavior management's not bad in and of itself. But if that's all we're trying to do is just keep a bad behavior at bay, we're not going to change long term. And that's really what we're after, is recovery, being from an old place to a new place where I look around and go, I'm becoming a new person. This is a transformation that's going to last. And so I think this series is to answer the question, what are those principles that are kind of abiding across people's stories? And that's what I'd say we've seen with these principles. It's very consistent across ages, types of struggle, things, you know, different forms of pornography or sexual addiction people have had. These are things we just know are going to be common in your story. And, you know, really starting with breaking out of isolation and breaking out of isolation would involve first seeing the ways that I'm choosing isolation and that many of us maybe have the spirit of a lone Ranger. That all the way back in the 1930s and 40s and our culture was being instilled into Americanism is like, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, make yourself who you want to be. It's all up to you. And we may have internalized that as a way of dealing with problems, as a way of dealing with life, as a way of dealing with our insecurities. It's like I'm on my own. And that may be the very thing keeping us trapped in these patterns. So I hope today is helpful for people to see you don't have to be a Lone Ranger. I mean, ironically, even the Lone Ranger wasn't a Lone Ranger because he had a sidekick and a horse and tools at his disposal. And truth be told, I've never watched the show, but I know enough about it to know that he had a sidekick from Tonto and a horse and I'm sure other people that helped him along the way. And so I think today is all about recognizing if we've seen ourselves as a lone Ranger. It's time to look around and see I'm not really doing it alone as much as I think I am. And if I would learn to break out of that pattern, I really could see health kick in in a new way.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's get into it. Here is week one of our Principles of Recovery series on breaking free from isolation. Nick, happy New Year.

Same to you. Thanks.

Yeah. So we've, you know, as you heard in the intro, it's just you and me today. We're just going to kind of take this thing together.

Yeah. Hopefully it's starting off on a good foot. I don't know. I guess the listener will decide by the end.

Yeah. Or they might have just decided already right now. But if you remember back, the first couple of episodes were just you and me. So this is just a throwback.

It's not like we've never done it. We just. No, partly it's pure desire keeps growing. We keep adding new people and great voices. And it's true. It's like, let's add to the conversation, but once in a while, it's okay that it's back to the original.

The OG The OG that's right. Very good. Okay. So as we start the new year, it made sense to go back to some of the basics of recovery. And so for the next five weeks, all of the month of January of 2024, we're going to look at the key principles to the recovery journey, or really some of the bigger ones. There are obviously more things that might be involved in the journey, but we want to look at five really key principles. So today we're going to look at isolation and how to break out of it. And as we get going, and this again, I think a lot of people may know what we mean by isolation. But just to make sure we're setting the stage right, what is isolation? Is it just being alone or is it something else?

Yeah, it's a great question and I think a good place to start because we don't want people fearing that anytime I'm alone, I'm doing something wrong, that I should never be alone. There's a lot of value in times of being alone and solitude and silence, and we'll talk about that towards the end. But when we're looking at isolation, we're really trying to understand a pattern of disengaging from relationship or intentionally not engaging in relationship. So it could be kind of going either direction. Like, maybe I'm around people and I choose to just isolate, or I should be moving towards people and I don't because I'd rather just be alone and figure things out by. By myself. It's in particular where we see these patterns are related to avoiding difficulty, avoiding hard situations or conversations, avoiding responsibility, maybe avoiding hard work, or avoiding anything that makes us uncomfortable. And we just decide it's just easier to be by myself. And I think some of this can be rooted, particularly if we grew up in Western culture, America and Western societies. It can be rooted in how we were raised. There's this rugged individualism of, like, if it's gotta be, it's up to me and I need to do this by myself. And so if I'm hurting, I figured out by myself. If I have a problem, I fix it myself. If there's something unpleasant about me, I deal with that on my own. And in some ways, even our American Christianity can reinforce that message of, it's just you and Jesus in a room. Fix all your problems. And yet that's really contrary to what Scripture says. And so I think that's what we want to focus on. That isolation is when I'm doing something intentional to avoid people. And I would add that it's not just physical, so you can be around people and be isolating. It could also be an emotional kind of response of I'm around people a lot, but I'm not really facing the hard things, being honest about myself, engaging in, you know, friendship with people. I could even if I'm around people all day long. So it's. It's more a state of mind than it is just your physical location. And again, looking at. Am I using withdrawing from relationship as a way to stay safe and maybe to avoid or to deal with my problems by somehow numbing out in other ways.

The visual I always get with isolation is just stiff arming that it's this idea of I'm stiff arming, difficulty in life or relationships or whatever. But it's a. And I like that the nuance that you're creating there, that it may be. May not be like hyper intentional that I know I'm shoving this thing away. It could be something limbicly that we have going on because our family of origin or what you've already talked about, the way we were raised, the culture that we were in. But I just. That's always like watching the NFL. I feel like stiff arms aren't a thing anymore in the NFL. But you used to see that like really good running backs would just stiff arm someone. And it is not allowing other people or certain situations or emotions to get close. That's at least that's the way I've thought about it.

Yeah. Well, it may be helpful too, to make sure that we distinguish it from having boundaries or appropriate distance between us and other people. Because there are, I think, those that can be people pleasers that can get lost in enmeshment with others and they really don't have great concepts of where do I end and where do you begin? And I'm so enmeshed with people that I don't really know how to get distance. And so in that regard, in some ways we do need healthy boundaries of I don't let everybody in that there are people, it's appropriate that they don't know my whole story all the time. And that might feel like a stiff arm, but maybe that's intentional because that's a vulnerable place and not everybody has earned the right to be in some of those vulnerable spaces. But it's looking at. Again, I would use the word pattern. Is this kind of the pattern of how I deal with things and deal with people as I just distance myself, remove myself, I just don't go there. And maybe I realize I don't go there with anyone or rarely ever, because it just. It feels safer. And that's where we would begin to say, man, this, this is some isolation that might be working against me.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so let's get into that. You know, why we're addressing isolation is what is it about isolation that makes it dangerous? Especially in this conversation about addressing our negative sexual behaviors or addiction or that sort of recovery.

I mean, the first thing that comes to mind with this question is just in isolation is where shame grows. And when you have negative sexual behavior or compulsive sexual behavior, whether that's sexually acting out, watching pornography, masturbation, affairs, anything like that, sleeping around, those are things that we know, both you and I personally, that cause shame. That there's a. You know, as a follower of Jesus, we know that this is not the right thing to do, and we feel that weight. And the idea of having other people know is terrifying. And so the way to avoid that fear is to isolate and pull away. And unfortunately, it's like. Isn't it like fungus grows in the dark? Right. It's like isolation is a way to keep those things in the dark, and those things tend to fester. And you and I have talked a lot about this. This blind spot thing that we all have, or we're not able to see our patterns very well or see our biggest struggles or issues. And in isolation, it's damaging to us because we aren't allowing other people's perspective, what they see, what they know, their own experience, their wisdom. We don't let any of that in when we're in isolation. And so it's shame and a lack of community of people helping us see our patterns and address them, that makes it so dangerous.

Yeah, I was thinking about that. It's kind of this vicious cycle if we're isolating. Because isolation can be both part of the cause of our problems of struggling with sexual behavior, pornography, lust. And it can also be what's preventing us from the cure.

Yeah.

And so it's the cause in that, you know, isolation really is, let's be honest, it's a breeding ground for unhealthy behaviors. Because if I'm choosing to avoid unpleasant situations or people or hard work or responsibility, I'm already in a place where I'm looking for something else to kind of create some mental stimulation, some excitement to fill up my mind and to help me not think about what. Whatever it is I'm avoiding. And so for many people, that first step in isolation might not be straight to their old sexual behavior or pornography, but it maybe is. I'm numbing out on my phone, I'm scrolling social media. I'm watching, you know, television by myself. I'm channel surfing, whatever it is I'm kind of moving into that place where I'm numbed out. And because I'm isolated, it's just increasingly easier to take the next step and the next and the next until someone's looking at their life going, oh my gosh, I'm there again. I, I promised I would never do this. Why? Well, they maybe have missed the connection that isolation was part of the problem that led them into their pathway. And then when we're stuck in that shame, when we're stuck in some of those behaviors, what we need is community. What we need is healing relationships. And we talk about that so much at Pure Desire. But if we've been in that pattern of isolation, it's hard to seek that out. We feel like people would reject me, they wouldn't want anything to do with me. It's too hard to break out of this. So it's kind of that double edged sword of it's both part, part of the cause of what we're stuck in and it's keeping us from the cure. And so in both regards, it's dangerous to our recovery.

Another aspect of that self perpetuating cycle too is that, and I know I've experienced this, that in isolation I start to feel lonely or in isolating, I know it's not good for me, I need to break out of it. But that discomfort of that realization causes me to want to isolate even more. It's that thing that, well, I'm already here. And it's funny because. And what I'm trying to get at is that because we start to feel that way or maybe have even identified that isolation is bad, that discomfort is one of the things that causes us to go to those unwanted behaviors. And then that cycle just continues and continues and really we find ourselves being stuck in isolation. So let's talk about that. If we find ourselves stuck in that. And oftentimes it takes someone else saying something to kind of get us out or whatever or to even show us that we're stuck in it. But how do we break free from that? And I mean the kind of big question is can we actually do that alone, Breaking out of isolation?

Yeah, I mean, it's a funny question that only an addicted brain would think made sense because honestly we do kind of think that way. It's like, man, I've got this problem of isolation. I'm just, I'm never going to be alone, you know. And I know all joking aside, that was some of my strategy early as a young adult was like, well, if I'm just never alone. I mean, other than quick stops into the bathroom kind of thing. If I'm always around people, I only exercise at the gym where others are. I only do this, this with others. Then, you know, maybe I'll be free of my problem. But it does ignore what we just talked about, that it's not just about being physically alone. It's more a mindset of how we're interacting with others and choosing to withhold ourselves from people that could help. And so in all honesty, no, we can't do it alone. We can't just exercise more and stay at work longer and make sure we always travel with other people. I mean, those may be helpful in regards to boundaries that we're having and recognizing where we are easily triggered. But to break isolation really has to be changing that pattern and seeing what are the. The areas of my life where I am tempted to just isolate from people, disengage and try to do it myself. And how instead could I seek to engage? And that's why, you know, we, we say it all the time. But engaging in a recovery group specifically around the topic of sexuality is so vital because most of us have been in a pattern that that's one of the biggest things we avoid, is discussing our sexual problems, the things we struggle with. It feels unsafe or awkward or embarrassing or shameful. And so joining a group that that's the intention or purpose is we're going to learn to be together in this. It's just amazing how that breaks isolation. And because it's a weekly commitment and I've even told people, like, if they can't find a pure desire group or they're wondering where to start, I'm like, if you're willing to go to an AA group or some kind of group, you know, those that are, they're just kind of like, drop in, come when you want. Like, that would be a step in the right direction of just acknowledging, I need other people that know what's going on in my life, I know what's going on in their life, and we share some common ground to say we've tried to do this alone, we've tried to fix this on our own time, and if we could, we wouldn't be here.

Right?

But we're here because we're acknowledging I need other people. And so I think a group commitment that we just have said, I'm going to do this every week, and especially the weeks I don't want to, maybe especially the weeks I don't feel like it, I'm committing To going, going and to this process because it's going to train me how to really break some of those isolation patterns.

Yeah. I think it also involves risk, risk of rejection. And I know that that is ironically one of the things that leads a lot of us into those unwanted behaviors, those sexual, compulsive behaviors, is because I've received some sort of rejection that has been hurtful to me or wounding. And so I pursue a behavior that then I'm ashamed of and then I move into isolation. So there's a risk of stepping outside of that. And this is what I would say if you are in around a community of people, if you go to church, I think I don't want to speak for everyone. I would just say, I bet you there is one person, at least just one person in your life that you know is, you know, this person feels safe to me. Maybe I'll try it with this person. I don't think that you need to, like, get on a podcast or go on social media and blast it. Like, that's not what stepping out of isolation looks like. It just starts with one conversation with one person where you're honest about maybe not even your whole story. Maybe just like a little bit of piece of, like, you know, I'm really lonely and I don't feel like I have a community or friends or there's this area I'm struggling with and I really need to just talk to somebody about it. I think that's a really practical step is just to pick one person and have that conversation.

Yeah, that's a really good point to bring up that there are maybe difficult relationships or hurtful situations that create the desire to isolate. And so it may be looking at, well, I need to have someone else. You know, if that hurtful situation is happening at work, maybe I'm not going to find community at work, but maybe there is a friend at church or a family member that I can download with at the end of a difficult work situation. Or maybe in our family situation right now, things are hurtful, stressful, disengaged. So maybe that won't be where we can find community. That might be a group of men or women at our church. Maybe that is a coworker that we trust and can grab coffee with. So it's, I think, a great point that we may all have situations that we just look at and say, for right now, this isn't a place I can really find the community I need to come out of isolation. But where is that? And hopefully it is someone in your sphere. Of influence, you know, if you're married in your family situation, I think that's another way to break isolation, is making sure to communicate to them the steps you're trying to take and just acknowledge, you know, to a spouse of saying, hey, I recognize that a lot of times at night I just disappear onto my phone. And I'm recognizing that's not healthy for me. I'm realizing maybe I do it out of fear of being a bad parent or not maybe wanting to engage with my kids for whatever reason. But I'm really working to stay out of that pattern. So I'm inviting your help in that. That if you see me like when my kids are in the room, if you see me lost in thought on my phone or just avoiding them, here's a way you could helpfully point that out. Because if we give a spouse or family member permission and a way in which they can do that, then when they do say something, we're hopefully a little less likely to respond with defensiveness. It's like, oh, yeah, I asked them to do that. And they even said it in a way that I asked them to, like, hey, honey, did you notice? Did you notice that your son is in the room? Like, oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, I want to engage, I want to engage. So I think it's important to just acknowledge we may need help in this. We may be so accustomed to just isolating, we might be a little blind to our pattern. So to ask about that, what are ways that we could identify when we're slipping into isolation? How might we begin to see that pattern in our lives?

Yeah, and I've told this story a bunch, and I'm sorry that you've heard it a number of times. Not you, Nick, I don't care, but everyone else who's listening. But I remember a time when work was stressful and life was crazy and we were living with my in laws and I would come home and I would just disappear into our room and I would say hi to, you know, my wife and our son. But I would disappear into my room and I was like, I was reading Harry Potter, which, you know, if everyone's read that, you, you know, it's great. Like, they're amazing. But what I realized is it was starting to damage relationship. Like my wife would get irritated and would come back and just be like, what? Like, what are you doing? Like, you didn't even ask me, you didn't even tell me. You just kind of came back here and did that. And the reason I bring that story up is because when you see that you're spending more and more time away from people, or it's even starting to impact the people around you, I think that that's a really easy way to identify it. If someone goes like, hey, what are you doing back there? Or what are you doing on your phone? Or to your point, it's something that's like, okay, I'm doing something that seems abnormal for maybe the context I'm in or is damaging this relationship or hurting it in any way. I also think. And there is a nuance here, I want to be careful with that. But like, if you're just canceling all of your plans and you're no showing on stuff, and you're starting to minimize communications, or people are asking like, hey, where you been? What have you been up to? That people who are normally in your rhythms of life, that's probably a good indication that you're pulling away from relationship. And so I think a lot of that comes from. I'm just realizing, even as I'm. I'm just reflecting on even what I've said already. Like, a lot of it comes from the feedback from outside. And so I don't know if you have any thoughts on how internally to recognize that. I just know in relationship, that's one of the ways that I have seen most when I'm isolating.

Yeah, well. And it's the value of being in community with other people. We do start to see our decisions through their eyes a little better. I think one of the ways for me that internally I feel it is when I realize there's maybe a situation causing me anxiety, anxiety or stress or worry. And I realize I haven't really told anyone about this. And I recognize I've been just trying to carry it, you know, and sometimes with my spouse, it can be like, I just didn't want to burden them. It didn't seem like a big deal, but now it's still there and it's getting bigger and they don't even know. Like, maybe I'm in some conflict with someone, or I'm really feeling a lot of anxiety about some finances. And by the time I start talking about it, I think it's left my wife sometimes feeling, why didn't you, like, bring this up a week ago when it started? Like, well, I don't. I didn't want to bother you. I didn't want to make a big deal of it. It just can reveal. Okay. I kind of have this tendency. Like, I'll just deal with it on my own. I don't want to burden people. I don't want to feel awkward or I'm not even sure what I'm thinking. So as you hear yourself maybe saying some of those things, those, I think can be indications of isolation. And I think it can be helpful to ask ourselves when we are doing an activity where we're alone, asking ourselves the question, why am I doing this right now? And if we have a good answer, like, well, this is healthy for me. This helps me get restored. It's something I enjoy. I've got margin for this for, like, I have no idea. Or I'm avoiding talking to my spouse or kids or friend or doing that task, like, okay, you know, it's taking a deep breath and saying, I'm probably isolating. And, you know, I don't want someone feeling like every second of every day that they're ever alone. They've got to be hyper vigilant.

Totally.

I think we can start to overanalyze every minute of our day. But again, I'm looking at patterns of when we see we're spending a lot of time on our phone alone, like, okay, why am I doing this? Is this helpful? Is it not? And just trying to unearth what might be driving some of our use of time.

Yeah. So let's say we've identified that we found ways that we've identified isolation where it's showing up in our life. We've taken steps to maybe break free. What does it look like to keep isolation from becoming a habit again? And I even think about this too. Like, there are seasons. And I've learned this in recovery. There are seasons where isolation isn't happening. I've addressed it. But then maybe this new wrinkle or this new experience happened. And then I feel myself pulling back into isolation in ways that maybe resembled my addiction. So how, how do we make sure it doesn't become a habit again?

Yeah, I think, like so many things, the. The answer is really rooted in what are we choosing instead? What are we replacing it with in healthy ways? I mean, if we're like, you know, someone who's committed to. I'm, I'm no longer eating donuts. But we don't ever eat healthy food. And we walk by the donut shop every day and we're really hungry, like, we're probably going to feel really drawn to donuts because we haven't filled our stomachs with something to make it like, well, I don't need that anymore. And so if our goal is just don't isolate, don't isolate but we're not moving towards, hey, here are ways that I do enjoy engaging with my kids. Here's something that my spouse and I could make a regular part of our rhythm. And that's where I think for us, that tool, the three circles, is so crucial. We've talked about it on a lot of podcasts. I'm sure we can put it in the show notes. But, you know, that middle circle is how I define a relapse. That inner. The middle circle then, is how I define my guardrails or the things I'm choosing to avoid. And it's really that third circle, the outer circle of what is health for me, what am I choosing to do instead? And really looking at that routinely to see, do I have activities in here that aren't just like, big range long term, like, you know, be a better dad or get my master's degree, but are week in and week out things of go for a walk with my spouse, take my kids on a bike ride, read my Bible and pray every morning, read a biography that I enjoy. You know, just those things that we know we could do them alone, but they're healthy for us, they're good for us, they're renewing. And I think if we can look at an outer circle that we've identified, hopefully as part of a group process, and we see, yeah, I'm engaging in a lot of those activities, that's what's going to help us getting back into bad habits, that we've really created some healthy ones. And if at the same time we look at that outer circle, like, gosh, I'm not really doing any of these, I've seen that in groups sometimes we can write them so idealistically, like, my, here's my ideal life. And we read them a year later and realize I haven't really gotten around to any of them because they're all so big picture, that can be a good moment of pairing back and just saying, okay, tomorrow. What would help me tomorrow move towards healthy relationships and a healthier version of me? And how could that become a weekly pattern or daily and. And then just engaging in those kind of activities.

I think something you mentioned earlier too, is another thing you can do is asking for other people's help. Like, if it's your spouse or coworkers or, you know, community or maybe your roommate, if you have identified your patterns of isolation, you can say, like, hey, if you notice me going, you know, spending more time in my room and not coming out and engaging with you, or I come home and I'M immediately on my phone or I'm sleeping in and not getting up and doing the things I normally do. Again, that giving permission to those people to then ask or say, hey, like, I've noticed, you know, where are you at? And I've had times where friends have done that. And even when I've given them permission, it's not like when they come to me, it's like super fun to hear, you know, like, hey, I've noticed you really pulling away like this. Last year at our growth group at church, I sensed that pull away from community. And there's some other things kind of going on outside of our church environment that I just felt really tired and exhausted and the energy of pouring into relationship was just felt like too much. But I gave my friend Jeremy, I gave him permission to do that and to speak into it. And he helped my eyes open up and saw that I was isolating. And so I think that giving other people permission to do that and having that kind of reciprocal relationship with other people is another way to make sure we don't backslide into it.

I think too, it can help to identify what is triggering us. Just like what you described there, you identified something that triggered you to want to pull away. And I think for most of us, there are probably some biggies. Whether it's that we maybe have situations that make us feel like a failure at work or feel like we're being a bad mom or a bad parent or that make us feel inadequate, whatever it is, kind of that when that feeling comes, we just want to disengage. And I think if we can identify that and in that area specifically, be proactive about. Is this an area I need to take to a counselor? Is there a book or a Bible study I could go through that addresses that topic specifically? So I feel like I'm proactively taking on the thing that makes me want to disengage from people. You know, a quick example. And it's not isolation, but I just think the way our brain works. I've realized a lot of times when I'm procrastinating at home and just kind of like wanting to waste time, watch TV shows and, you know, not get anything done. When I know there's tasks and things I should be doing to help the family, they're kind of. Some of the roles my wife and I both have, I begin to recognize a lot of it comes down to that I just do not like to do the dishes. And when I know it's my turn to do the dishes, and like, there's a full sink. It's just like. And I just. It's like I'll putter around and do meaningless things. Whereas if I would just like, cleaning.

Other things but not the dishes, but.

Not really making much progress. But it's like, if I would just acknowledge that it's funny, plow through it. I mean, it takes all of, like, 20 minutes, honestly, @ the most.

Yeah.

But once that's done, there's something in me that's like, oh, well, I can do that. I can. You know, so it's. It's. The principle of bringing that up is I think for a lot of us, we have some blocks like that or triggers of like, I'm stuck feeling I'm not good enough. And I will probably be in isolation until maybe I come back and identify. I need to go talk to that person that when I'm feeling this, I know it's safe to bring up to them or call my group member or get alone and meditate and journal and pray about that specific thing. Because sometimes when we clear the decks of that block, then it's like, suddenly other things feel easier. It's like, oh, I can take my kids for a bike. Right. I can go do that. Because we got over the one that really is holding us back.

Yeah. So we talked about it a little bit toward the top is understanding the difference between isolation and solitude. And so if we've struggled with isolation in the past, we've already talked about there's this fear that solitude could actually be tiptoeing back into isolation. How can we learn to develop healthy times of solitude?

Yeah. I think of an example I got to have recently. As we mentioned in the introduction, I had a time of sabbatical, and during that sabbatical, I spent a few days at a monastery. And whole story about that place, it's really a gift that you got me.

From the monastery too.

That was cool. But what's unique about that is I spent the better part of three days without human interaction. I mean, I went to some of the chapel services that the monks do. I had someone else I ended up meeting, but most of the time was just alone. And there came back with your hair.

Too, by the way.

That would have been torture. Like, that would have been so hard. It would have been so triggering. But in that situation, it was beautiful. It was freeing. And the reason is it was really my mindset. Because my mindset was, I am here for renewal and for what will help me grow closer to Christ, feel more centered, feel more at peace with who I am and what God is doing in my life and, you know, spend a lot of time not doing much at all. I mean, it would have looked like I was procrastinating. Maybe I was going for a walk, I was writing in my journal, I was reading a book and it was so renewing because of that mindset of this is what I'm here for. And I think when we look at our life now, we're not all going to spend much time in a monastery. And I get that. But I do think we can look at the. A week, a month, a year and just see places where, you know, when I isolate, I mean, when I choose to be alone.

Yeah, there you go.

That solitude that is helping me, whether it's your devotional time or, you know, I've talked about a lot. For me, going for a run. I think for others it might be forms of exercise that maybe we don't do with other people. And it's not because we're isolating, but we know this is actually helping me be healthy, which makes me better for other people or, you know, I know some people that are. They're just so people driven that it's hard for them to go to bed in a good rhythm. And for them it might be at 10pm they disengage and it feels like they're letting people down. But in a way, they're choosing some solitude to make sure they get a full night of rest. Well, the truth is, if you're well rested, how are you going to be the next day for your co workers, your friends, your family? Like, totally, you're a better person, right? But if I stay up till midnight 1am because I'm texting people and have to be on and email because I don't want to say no to anybody and, you know, I don't want to feel like I'm. I'm, you know, isolating from them. And then I only get five hours of sleep and I wake up and I'm grumpy and grouchy. I was like, well, your solitude some time to disengage. You know, Luke 5:16 talks about that Jesus often withdrew from quiet places to pray. I mean, if you talk a guy that had a pretty important agenda and a narrow window to do it in. Like, as we look back, he essentially three, three and a half years, everything he did happen in that window, like he didn't have much spare time, quote unquote, to just go on vacation, right? But here he is frequently withdrawing from crowds that were loving his preaching, people that were probably finding faith because of his healing. And he's taking time for solitude, to pray, to be alone, to be with the Father. And it was probably really confusing to some of his disciples and others, like, where are you going? Like, there's something to do here. Like, no, I know what I need. Jesus knew what he needed, and to withdraw in that way was actually keeping him able to engage as God had called them to. So I think what we really have to do is identify what are those things for me that do require I withdraw, but for a purpose, for a part of my rhythm, because I know the way it's going to breathe life into everything else that I do. And none of us do it perfectly. I think that's where I hesitate to bring up the example of Jesus, because it's like, well, he was Jesus. But on the other hand, if he can do it, he can help. Help us do it, too, and move towards that kind of a life where we're really comfortable knowing our limits, knowing what we can and can't do, and then being able to communicate that to people. To say, I'm doing this not to isolate, but because of my needs to be with the Father, to have some alone time to get rested, to be renewed and refreshed. And if everyone doesn't get it but you understand why it's helping you, that's the key. And then for those that are in your circle, you know, being able to explain to them that rhythm so that they can be a part of supporting it.

Yeah.

You don't want your spouse or close friends having those same questions of, why is he doing this when it really is a good thing. Well, make sure you tell them. I'm just bringing up like, the public at large doesn't have to understand if you're unavailable at certain times or certain days because you know the importance of that rhythm.

But if your wife is like, you've been at the monastery every single week for three days at a time, what are you doing?

Which, hey, I mean, full disclosure, that's another story. The timing of that did not end up being great for our family. And if you asked my wife about it, it was not a positive experience. And. And we. We've worked through that, and I think we're okay. But all that to say, even as we're trying to pursue solitude, we can sometimes do it in a way that that didn't work out perfectly. And I just had to own that. And, you know, we're working through it.

And just to practically apply what you've said. I think the question I tend to ask about because I think there's a trial and error, especially if you're just learning how to do solitude or for spending time alone and not isolating, is evaluating at the end of that practice or that activity, asking the question, does this make me a better version of myself or does this put me into a worse headspace? And that's going to take some time because I learned through practice that I like going to see movies by myself. And that may seem like isolation to a lot of people, but like clockwork, every time I come home from that, I'm in a better spot. And it doesn't matter how violent the movie was or how funny the movie was. The fact that I got to go alone, I didn't have to meet anybody's expectation, which there's something in there. My therapist could probably help me unpack later. But I just like clockwork. Every time I come back, I'm in a better spot. So I think asking that question and giving yourself that grace to evaluate, I think is helpful.

Well, as we look to wrap up this first episode on some of these keys for our recovery, how does breaking free from isolation impact our recovery journey? Like, how do we see this long term creating the kind of transformation that we really want to see in our lives?

Yeah, I think first and foremost is it pushes us into relationship, which is just scattered throughout Scripture, how important it is for relationship. And so I think it's really important that we have that feedback from other people, that we have them in our lives. They know what's going on, we know what's going on in their life. And really, what I think is so important in addressing isolation in the recovery journey is once you lean into relationship, that is the opportunity where shame can then be diminished. Because I remember the first time I was in group sharing my story for the first time and having people hear the deepest, darkest secrets I had had and the parts of my story I was so ashamed of. And they say, me too. And they're like, we love you. Come back next week. Let's keep doing this thing together. It's an unbelievable experience. And I think that that is only possible in relationship. And so breaking free from isolation gets you in relationship. You have a feedback loop that is much bigger, and you're not just stuck in your own head and your own patterns, but also is a practical way that the Lord diminishes shames in our life.

Yeah, it makes me think of what we've said a lot, that the sickness and the cure can't be the same thing. And if isolation is part of our sickness, breaking out of it and learning to trust others with our deepest stuff is part of the cure. I was thinking also about Galatians 6:2, that the apostle Paul encouraged the reader. He said, carry one another's burdens and in so doing you fulfill the law of Christ. Which is a very interesting addition. Like I think we get. Yeah, carry one another's burdens. We're here to help each other. But it fulfills the law of Christ. And that's a powerful statement. And if you think about what the law of Christ is, it really comes down to, I think, him saying to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. That we would say the law of Christ is love and a self giving, self sacrificing love. And there's something about our recovery that I think we have to keep in mind that recovery isn't just being free of, free of that pattern, free of that, that behavior or sin, and that's a part of it, but it's also free to. And free for. And if we were asked the question, what is the goal of recovery? Well, I would say it's fulfilling that law of love that as Christ called us to love him and to love others. Well, when we engage in community, in relationship, we can fulfill that law of love. And if you think about it, you can't fulfill the law of Christ alone. You can maybe work on the love of God on your one on one. Although I would argue if that's all you ever did, even that will be limited. But you simply cannot love others as yourself if you're by yourself. So when we break isolation, not only is it taking us away from a negative pattern, but it's that sense of how is it taking us to the kind of relationships God made us for and the kind of love that we experience because of those that really connects us to the love of God and is ultimately the goal of our healing. Because when we really live in that, we don't have a need for what drives us to isolation. So it's maybe a bigger deal than people recognize, but it really can become what propels us to a lifestyle of health and avoiding whatever it is that we're trying to recover from.

Which is really why we wanted to start this series on breaking isolation, is because it is such a key part to stepping out of the brokenness we've been experiencing and stepping into what God has for us in relationship and, And One of the things that is just so great is that once you've addressed and I know this is my experience, I know it was yours too. When you experience this hurdle or the struggle in your life starting to lower and become less and less of an impact in your life, your relationship with the Lord does absolutely get better, which is just going to increase all of your relationships. So 2024, we're underway. Nick, thanks for sitting in. I know it was just you and me, but I feel like we carried it okay. Yeah. So yeah, thanks. And if you're a fan of the content, please subscribe, share it with somebody, and write us a review. If you want more information on our groups, resources, or counseling, just go to PureDesire.org and lastly, never stop being healthy.