352 - Stories From The Church: Faith Chapel

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time it is. I am your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 352 of the Pure Desire podcast. You're joining me as always, is my co host, Nick Stembo.

Oh, give me a home where the buffalo roam.

That's a good tone.

And the skies are not cloudy all.

They.

Where is heard. Okay, I'll.

I don't remember that song. What, what song is that?

Home, Home on the Road.

Okay, There you go.

Yeah. So is that a Christian song? It's got the feeling of it sounds like a.

Like it's an old time country western song that then was implement integrated into a whole bunch of cartoons from my childhood where the characters would be singing it, you know, strolling across some desert or, you know, the plains and yeah, just home, Home on the Range.

The obnoxious vibrato people felt like they needed to put into it. Okay, so tie this one in because we had Robert Nelson and Annie Burt from Faith Chapel in Billings, Montana, on to talk. Really just share their stories from the church, their spot in Faith Chapel.

Yeah, well, you can't think about Home on the Range without thinking about blue skies, wide skies, big skies. Hey, big sky, Montana. Oh, nice guys is what they're known for. Thanks for walking us through that. Yeah, Billings, Montana is where their church is located at. And I love that story because, you know, let's be honest, if you think of churches that are really rocking a great ministry with pure desire groups, you're probably not thinking like the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming.

No offense, listeners.

Yet. Yeah, it's just we tend to overlook those places. And yet here in Billings, there is a thriving ministry and it's no accident the way they got there. And I hope that's what churches and leaders and if you're attending a church that you take encouragement from is to hear their story, that where they're at right now is pretty significant. But how they got there is the same way that any church could start, could begin to understand the material, integrate some things. And whether you're a small church or a big church, I think you'll be encouraged by what they're doing and the steps they've taken and you know, just a shout out to them. They're huge Pure Desire fans. And Robert has his own story that he shared and this was almost a combo of stories of healing and stories from the church because Robert shared a lot of his story. But it's awesome because he's. He's a great guy with a real heart for this ministry. And what God has done is his own life is the reason why. And so I know listeners are going to be just real pleased to get to have a little insight into their story.

And, I mean, I know that Robert is the one that's a little bit more passionate, and it definitely comes down to his story, but Annie's no joke either. She's no slouch. She's doing her work there, too, and it was awesome to hear from them. So let's get into it. You guys are going to enjoy this. Another episode of Stories from the Church with Robert Nelson and Annie Burt from Faith Chapel. All right, we have Robert Nelson and Annie Burt from Faith Chapel. Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast, guys.

Thank you. I appreciate being here.

Grateful to be here.

Yeah, we're pumped to have you guys. I don't know if you know this, but your names are pretty famous, like, inside of Pure Desire. I feel like we know your church well. We know you both individually well by name, and so. So we're excited to really dive into what you guys do in Billings, Montana, at Faith Chapel with running groups and how you've seen it impacted. And again, this is just a continuation of ongoing episodes you want to do, just exploring stories from the church. I think so often people can feel like they have to get it right the first time or that it has to be the smooth, clean process where everything just changes overnight. And as anybody who's done groups in church knows, that is not the case. And so even the difficult parts is what we want to explore today with you guys. So as we kind of get going, let's establish who you are, what your role is that you have at Faith Chapel, and how long you've been at the church.

Well, thanks, Trevor, for this opportunity, Nick. Grateful to be with you guys. My name is Robert Nelson. As you already said, my role primarily is to be a disciple of Jesus. I have an amazing wife at home, and so I really want to grow as being a good husband. I have three girls at home, so. Father. And then I get to serve as the guidance and care pastor here at Faith Chapel. I've been serving here for, like, two and a half years as the guidance and care pastor.

Awesome.

Thanks, Robert. My name is Annie, and I, I have been. First of all, thank you so much for inviting me to join in. My name is Annie Burt, and I get to partner with Robert Nelson in the guidance and care department here at Faith Chapel under the big skies of Billings, Montana. And if you do look outside, Robert, they are blue, aren't they?

In certain areas, yeah.

Well, good for you guys. Good for you guys, because it's not that way over here. And I just want to say this. This too, Annie. So you hear it. When I was talking to Robert about who else we could have, he's like, oh, we have to have Annie. Like, we have to have her on the show with me. So, yeah, you kind of got a celebrity going already, jumping into your first ever podcast.

Thanks, Robert. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I have been with this department for about 20 years, and I love what I get to do, which is focusing and providing compassion and direction, leadership and hope that's anchored in the love of Christ. And I'm also a facilitator of betrayal and Beyond Unraveled and Sexual Integrity 101.

That's awesome.

Fantastic.

Yeah.

Yeah. A lot of our listeners may know that I grew up in Montana, so missing those wide open blue skies my dad would always brag about. Montana gets 300 days of sunshine a year. You know, sometimes it's 10 below, but it's sunshine in Portland, Oregon. We miss that. Part of the reason we love to have these episodes with churches is because so many pastors, leaders, and churches out there are trying to figure out, like, how do we do this? How do we really integrate groups into our church and make it a part of how we help people? And so we want to get to a chance to hear your story. And let's go back to where it began. Like, how did Faith Chapel first get introduced to Pure Desire groups and the resources that are available?

Well, Robert, if you'll allow me to begin.

Absolutely.

Okay. I do remember Ted and Diane coming to Billings, Montana, to present Pure desire probably about 11 years ago. I remember Ted saying that he had always been trying to get into Faith Chapel for quite a while, and he was very excited to be able to do that. And so after he did speak, he also did the weekend message and promoting Pure Desire and talking about that. I think that he even showed a clip of a little bit of the DVD series. And after that time, he was willing to spend some additional days to prepare and have our staff go through at least the guys to go through these groups. And I do remember Nate Petzl really encouraging the guys to go ahead and take advantage of this. And that's how we got started. Now, the women's portion didn't get started until a little bit later on.

Great. So, I mean, gosh, it's funny too, because, I mean, I'VE been at Pure Desire for almost seven years now. And, like, hearing about how much Ted and Diane, they both traveled and went everywhere, and I feel like everyone knew their name, and they were at all of these churches I had never heard of. And then it's like, oh, yeah, well, Ted and Diane came on Sunday. And so it's just really cool that obviously, the heart and the beginning of our ministry, to have them come out and be a part of that. That's awesome.

Yep.

So I can imagine having, you know, the art founders come in and give the, you know, event, and really, you're getting the best sales pitch you can because, you know, they started the ministry, but that doesn't mean that getting going with establishing these groups is easy or simple. So what were some of the initial hurdles that Faith Chapel experienced when starting Pure Desire groups? And really, how did you overcome those obstacles?

Again, I think Annie has been. She was here from the beginning when ted came in 2014. And so I would love for Annie to be able to comment on some of those initial hurdles that they overcame in the beginning stages of this partnership.

There were huge hurdles in the beginning, Huge. Like who was even remotely to qualify to lead or who wanted to lead. What would promotions look like, how it was going to come from the platform, who would sign up, who's going to admit that they have a problem and are willing to come forward to talk about that. But after Ted's presentation on a weekend service, I believe that the Lord was working, and not only me, but with the groups that were established subsequent that to Ted and Diane coming here. And I do remember when the women's groups started later, I was part of the women's group. And even admitting that my. Admitting that my first marriage ended in divorce because of this, and. And I had that background, I was a little frightened because I kind of wondered what it would look like to have a staff person, you know, on staff to admit going through these difficulties. And however, as we are processing the material with other ladies, I found that I was not the only one that it is so common.

Yeah.

And it just opened up my eyes to really want to know more.

So in terms of some of those challenges, you know, we've. Like I said, I've been serving here for two and a half years as a guidance and care pastor, but really, my introduction came through navigating my own unwanted cyclical sexual behavior in my life. In 2016, my wife and I lost our oldest daughter, and the pain level just absolutely skyrocketed my life. And at this point, in time, I began to medicate, hide, internalize, suppress, isolate and just try harder. And I knew, you know, what I was doing wasn't working, but I wasn't ready to come to my wife and tell her again without some sort of answer and so hid this from her. For seven months. I was full time, full time husband, full time dad. I was working 40 plus hours of work of hard labor. I was in, in a factory. I was doing 20 hours a week at the church as a youth pastor, elder, and then I was going to college too. And so this seven months was brutal for us, for our marriage. When it was finally exposed April 1, it was of 2017. I had set up a appointment with a Christian counselor at this point. And he told me about Pure Desires at Faith Chapel. He said, oh man, have you heard about this? And I was like, no. And. And so my friend Bob recommended me to Peer Desires at Faith Chapel. And I came and In May of 2017, I attended my first session of Conquer. And within the first two sessions I was, it was, there was light bulbs. I was amazed at the, the root this multidimensional, multifaceted addiction that I didn't know that I had. I was astounded by the fact that sex addiction wasn't about sex. It was about medicating inner pain and grief and wounds and loss and trauma and shame and fear. And and so was really privileged to be given a process that I could personalize in community that was Christ centered, that was clinical, that was neurologically informed. And so I had a huge relapse July 6th of July 5th of 17. So I've been sober since July 6th of 17 with no hardcore softcore porn or self medication. And yet like the process that was incredibly transformative took a while, you know, to begin like work. And so remaining group. I was leading a group within seven months of being in my first group and I led that group online. And so the, the process of seven pillars really, really helped me reorient understand arousal trigger mapping. Yep. Really helped me understand specifically like renewing the mind and understanding my wife's identity and personality was unique to her. And so there was a whole lot of stuff that had to be reformulated, reoriented in my theology and my personal life and my recovery ultimately stepped off staff of that church. December of 18 and 2019, January decided immediately to come serve give go to Faith Chapel. I'd already been in groups here since 17, so I served here for two years leading groups with our good friend. We led young high school students through Top Gun Yeah. And after doing that for two years, our senior pastor invited me to be to interview to be the guidance and care pastor. So I started June first of all one. And so in like the last two and a half years of ministry here at Faith Chapel, I've been privileged to serve as that guidance and care pastor. But that that position is, involves all addiction, all recovery. So our peer desire groups, survivor care as a part of that, all counseling, all funerals, benevolence 24 7, 365 pastor care or pastor like contact. So people have access to a pastor. Yeah, there's five ministries in the women's prison, there's four different prayer ministries, there's multiple different things. So. So our biggest challenge is in this I think is not only do we have this incredible partnership with Pure Desires, but there's just a lot of different other dimensions to guidance and care. So secondly the consistent request for navigating crisis. You know, we have not only the groups that we lead and then leading leaders to lead and then wanting to operate according to best practices and group guidelines, which we're super thankful that Peer Desires has made it, you know, leader training and frequently asked questions and leadership development so available. But every week it seems like we're getting, you know, requests and I know that you know about that. I think last time, last summit we were at. Aren't there like 13,000 people a month that visit your guys website?

I mean at this point we're between 90 and 100,000 visits to our website and then yeah, I would say like maybe a little under 10,000 group searches a month or something like that. So yeah, we, we know what's happening out there.

You do. So yeah, those requests are coming in. So secondly or thirdly, what's challenging for us is when groups are in motion, helping them finish well transition into the next process and then continuing to equip and empower leaders through navigating the crisis but also enjoying the victories because there's life change that's happening all around. So yeah, those are really like honestly our biggest challenges is that transitionary process. Like you said at the beginning, Trevor, you we love it to be smooth and seamless and yet it, you know, there's holidays, vacation, there's you know, emergencies and then there's you know, the crisis.

So transformation is messy.

Yeah, recovery is. But it's so beautiful when you get a call and somebody's getting it and the light bulbs are going off and they can feel the new neural connections that are being made and they're using the resources and the tools. It's super exciting.

Yeah. Well, and I love the way that both of you guys, both you, Annie, and for you, Robert, have brought your own story into this area. And I think we find that so frequently the case in church is that the people most equipped to lead are actually the ones that have in some ways, had to walk through their own, you know, breakdown of a marriage or their own addiction. And they see the hope and the freedom that's possible and the support that comes when we're able to be honest about these things with other people that are addressing some of the same stuff. And so your. Your heart for that, I imagine, really was just really leaning in because of what you had experienced in your own life. And love to hear that. Give us a snapshot of, like, what. What pure desire groups are currently running at your church or maybe on average, like, what kind of. Which groups do you have available and how many of them?

Annie, can you go ahead and discuss the ladies and I'll discuss the men?

Absolutely. Can I address the. Some. Some other challenges that we've had to deal with?

Oh, sure.

Yeah, Absolutely.

Okay. And Robert, I agree with you 100%. We came from wondering how we were going to. If we were even going to have one person sign up to now what do we do with all these folks that recognize that they need this help? And so that has been really very challenging, but also feels really good to know that little by little, couples are coming forward and they want help, and they're admitting that they want help. We met the challenges of COVID 19 when that was here with our online groups. Right now, we're having to walk through child care issues as we move forward because these groups go on and on and on. And typically, child care here goes on during. From September to, you know, when school lets out. And so the summer months are a little difficult to, you know, get the child care that the ladies really do desperately need. So, yeah, that's. That's a thank you for.

Yeah, there's so many of those logistical challenges, too, that the churches don't think through up front. And often, you know, the reality is if they're only starting one group, like, for the men may not be the first problem. But then you start a group for the ladies and you're like, oh, we've got limitations here that women can't come because of childcare issues, and you start adding to that. And so you guys have navigated so many of those. And so, like I said, give us a snapshot of how many groups are meeting at the church. And which ones are you running?

Okay. We have gone from probably two leaders to probably nine, 10, wouldn't you say, Robert? Maybe a little more.

I have, I have a list in front of me of 15 ladies and 14 men.

Wow.

A couple of them have transitioned out or moved like so. But we're over, we're over 20 leaders right now.

That's more than I thought. Yeah. With the women's groups, we have two separate groups going for betrayal and beyond. We have two groups that are doing sexual integrity 101. And I just finished up with my co leader, Robert's wife, Megan. We just completed the unraveled group and, and again, we're. It's fun that we can transition one group into the next group and it seems to be working out pretty darn good. So we're just waiting for this. In a couple of months, we're going to start some new groups coming up and. Yeah, and so we're pretty excited about that.

Robert, are you experiencing anything specifically when it comes to challenges with running men groups? Like, what does Faith Chapel see as like some of those hurdles that you're seeing men need to overcome in order to step into group maybe for the first time?

Great question. In terms of a church of our size, we, there's, I would say like the general number for attendees in a weekend service is anywhere between 3,000 to 4,000 people. And so because guidance and care is one of 17 different departments at Faith Chapel, our senior pastor prefers to just really focus on the Bible and teaching the Bible because the moment you start shouting out, you know, accolades or invitations, you know, you, you almost need to do that for everybody. So there's a lot of back house or, or in office processes to promote groups. So I wish, you know, I, I would love it if we could get more promotion from the front of the room. So that's, that's a hurdle. But there's a lot of invitation. Excuse me, that's happening personally. And then, you know, in terms of, you know, one of the second hurdles that I'm navigating right now is just trying to decide how to help leaders. I'd really like for leaders to walk with guys through one on one conquer pillars instead of just help moving them from leader to another leader. If leaders commit to that process, then they end up spending a couple years with the guys. By the time they've done one on one conquer twice and then pillars and then compassionate Warrior is the next process that we're headed into that you guys have completed. And so just finding Leaders that are willing to do the long term process. There's several leaders who are willing to like lead through a group or two groups and do it on a loop, but doing it in a more elongated process is something I'm believing would be beneficial and we're headed that direction. And so in terms of groups that are active right now, we have, we also run fearless groups. Annie leads those Fearless for Women with James Reeves. Yeah, he's been on here and done podcasts. And so she has a women's group running in a women's prison and helping ladies process the trauma of abuse and survivor care. There's a fearless group here at the church. To Betrayal and Beyond Sexual Integrity 101. And then unraveled is like in the wings, if you will, like getting ready. And then I have, there's six different men's groups running right now. I'll be launching 101 April 7th and. And then there's pillars and, and four more conquerors going that will all transition into, into pillars.

Yeah, well, it's, it's so encouraging to hear because I, I think churches do feel like maybe we'll never get there. And what you shared too, about announcements from the stage, it's so common that people feel like, well, if we only got more public recognition, then the groups could grow. But I think whether you're at a small church and maybe have a leadership team that just doesn't have a vision for it, or you're at a large church and a staff that does have a vision for it, but there's just not time in either scenario. There's not a whole lot being said from the stage. And obviously it'd be great if that was happening. But it's good to know that even when it doesn't. There are ways that through back channels, through the power of invitation, through the power of people telling one other person, this is what God has done in my life. And I think you should join too. I mean, frankly, that is still the most common way. When I hear from men who are in recovery that they started a group, it's because they'll say, well, my brother or my friend or my college roommate or whoever, someone said, I've experienced or heard about change happening through a seven Pillars group or a Pure Desire gathering. And I think you should check it out. So if you're a leader in a church feeling like, man, if only we got those on stage announcements, well, that'd be great. And don't give up on that. But know that there's so much that you can do to create a community of healing and recovery, even if you're not getting shout outs on a Sunday morning.

When you think about it too, like relationships you have internally with staff, let's say, and you guys have close relationships with your marriage ministry and you have mentors who are taking people through the process of, you know, improving their marriage or communication or whatever it may be. And this topic comes up, if those mentors or those, you know, disciple makers are like, hey, we actually know that we run pure desire groups here. Why don't you go through like, those kind of relationships are just. I would even say those are more effective than maybe even something from the stage because sometimes that can just fall on deaf ears or positioned in a weird way or. I'm not gonna admit in this moment that that's an issue because everyone's watching. You know, there are a lot of things that you can do even in a church that size. And it sounds like you guys have that relationship. But it's not that people don't know that you run these groups, but maybe you're not getting that public affirmation from the stage.

It doesn't. There's a, it's mostly personal invites. And like you said, Trevor, what has been cool, what I've, what I've loved experiencing personally, is that after being on staff for a year and running groups and launching groups, last year in 2023, we had three, three of our other pastors wanting to lead groups. And so they were in connection to the marriage ministry. And right now two other pastors are. And so there's a high school group running, a junior high group running. I just had another leader from, in high school tell me he's going to take his guys through, through a group. And so, you know, I'm, I'm just trying to like, you know, get everybody into the training. We're, we're getting ready to. I talked to Emmanuel Garaway last week and I just really believe it's time for us to like jump into that pure desire membership process that you guys have. So there's a little bit more care for the leaders and they have increased capacity to connect with pure desire group leader training and 101 and just asking questions. So we're thrilled at the support like you guys making yourself accessible, available. And then what I've discovered is that just remaining, remaining in the room, remaining part of the process, somebody's going to come up and talk to you. And I, and I have a place to invite them. They may have to wait a Few weeks. I talked to a guy yesterday and was able to tell him, like, look, you can. You can jump in April 7th with me, or you can jump in at the end of April with this group. And this is what I recommend. And so just being able to, like, you know, point people in the direction and have something that's pretty much right around the corner that's. That's super exciting to be a part of.

Well, yeah, and I would just say, like, from our vantage point, churches that do that, that are running these staggered groups kind of throughout the year, where it's not just we only start in January, that creates a lot of success and opportunity because the availability is there. You know, we've talked a little bit about the hurdles and the challenges, but obviously the reason we do this is because of the success that we see from it. And I know both of you have experienced that, that fruit. So talk about that. What are some of the success stories that you've heard? How have you seen this change the individual lives and marriages of people in your church?

So just personally, to jump first, Annie, I, I just my. My recovery, like, being able to have serenity and sanity and, and to be sober and being able to face reality and accept life on God's terms and have some emotional awareness now and have that so many of the resources and the relationships and to have connection and community is just so pivotal for me. My wife and I are in an incredible place in our marriage, so that's a thrill. Secondly, being able to parent, like this morning, just, I have three girls at home and, you know, there was a intentional act of unkindness and I was able to be present and aware and in an emotionally healthy headspace to, like, parent my daughter and, and not. And do so in a way that, you know, was healthy. So that was really grateful that I'm able to give my children something different than what I was given. I had incredible parents, and yet there was, you know, they were really handed a performance based, you know, transactional mindset in their discipleship process. And I took that on. And so I really want to give my daughters and my family and these next generations something different. I'm thinking also of seeing a really good friend that I finished group with in 2017, and we he, you know, saying, hey, man, hey, will you lead with me? Will you, Will you come lead Top Gun? And so watching him prioritize his recovery, prioritize his wife and their relationship, his family, he works in a Fortune 500 company. And so he, he, he's like, he runs this massive nationwide process. And then. But then he decided to go to school, too. So he led groups. He's going to school to get a counselor's degree. And so seeing him succeed, seeing a friend of mine in Butte in my first group, like, get sober as a single man, and then get into a relationship with Ms. Montana, fall in love with her, pursue her. He could not marry her because she was under contract as Miss Montana. So he had to, like. He had to, like, just fight, you know, and in his sobriety. And then he wanted to lead groups, so he fought it out and started groups and married her. And that's awesome. So that was thrilling. And then the last story I'd quickly tell is, a year and a half ago, there was a couple who came to us in crisis, just in a lot of pain, and they went to another church on the other end of town, but they needed help. And so Annie and I were able to. One of our pastors of the day met with him, connected him to me. We sat down, met with them, and we didn't have any groups happening. Excuse me for. There was no openings for a few months. And so what we did was we gave them connected and we gave them 101. And we said, you guys got to work through this, and then we'll meet with you every. We met with them every three weeks. And. And we just walked them through. We. We gave them access, and they walked through. And so they have jumped into groups, and now their marriage is in a radically different place, and she is leading groups, and they've just been a joy to see. So watching them, like, you know, take the resources and take action was just. Was just super exciting. Annie, what about you in terms of successes? What.

Oh, gosh, that has been so great during this whole process. I remember that we had to. The ladies had to wait for a bit to get into our material. And so when women were starting to come my way, they were ready to call it quits. They were done. Divorce was their next option. And so what I did is that I took the DVD series and I let them go through that just to let them know, basically, that it was an addiction. It didn't have anything to do with them, because as women, that's automatically. That's what we think. If I. If I only do this or if I. If I only look like that. And it has nothing to do with that. And so after the Conquer series.

I.

Think that benefited them very, very well that they were able to say, okay, I'll. I'll give this some time. I'm going to go through the material for the women and see what happens. And so even in the beginning, God was at work with regard to that. And also on a personal note, my life was transformed from, you know, never wanting anyone to know what I went through as a child and then during my first marriage and how God has really redeemed that. And now I. I share my story often.

Yeah.

And. And, you know, and just so that we talk about it. So I talk about it and talk about it and talk about it and tell my story over and over and over again so that they can understand that it's okay to let your guard down, that these groups are safe, that Faith Chapel is a safe place to be, and the room is just filled with other women who are experiencing the same things. So that has been really transforming for me.

Yeah, it's amazing to watch when Christ takes our weaknesses or what we think of as our brokenness and transforms it into places of strength and opportunity and places where we're bringing him glory by sharing about those very things. And I think it is the individual stories that keep us going, because for some listening to this podcast, and for you guys, we've been at this a while, and there can be a little bit of that compassion fatigue that sets in of like, oh, here we go, another guy who's struggling or another marriage that's broken. And if you guys just follow our steps and you can almost take for granted that, well, if you just do the right things, healing will happen. But it's the individual stories where you come back and you remember, this is incredible. This is amazing, the way God created transformation. You know, it took someone that was in one place and really broken or alone or addicted, and now they're in a totally different place. Like, that's what we all want to see in church and in people's stories. But if we're honest, it's not happening maybe as often as we wish. And so when we see it happening through these groups and in a Pure Desire ministry, it's life giving. And so I'm excited that you guys have gotten to see that. And you're just able to pick back those moments. Go, man, this person, this person, that couple, this person. I think that encourages all of us.

It's thrilling to be a part of it. Really, really is.

So when you guys think of the church community and you're in a larger church, and so this may be different than it would be at a smaller church, but how do you feel that the Pure Desire groups there at Faith Chapel have had an impact on your church as a whole or maybe even the community around you.

I would just say that in the two and a half years that I've been here, when I came in, there was two groups running for men, and there was three groups running for women. So to have 11 groups, 11 groups going, I would say that there's just an increased awareness and understanding and a willingness to be a part of the process. Yeah, I know our senior pastor, he's an incredible leader and just has a really, really humble, but also wise perspective. And so he's been consistent in championing the processes and creating these safe places where healing can happen. And so I would. I just. I think the. The fact that, like, that we've had four other pastors jump in and lead groups. We've got a fifth pastor who works in. Oh, no. A fifth and a sixth. Two pastors who work in our Native American communities, and our. Our native create space within their ministries to also bring in group process material. So just seeing more leaders say, yes. Oh, this is valuable. This is beneficial. I want to be a part of this. I want to give this to the men that I'm with. Like, and then we have an invitation right now from our. Yeah, there's just an invitation from one of our women's pastors to bring the process to the women's ministry. And so that that relationship and partnership is being formed and discussed. Even bringing out Nick Stumbo to last. Was it last year? Nick, or the year before?

I think we were two years ago last year. You had Rich and Ashley out to do some training?

Yep. Rich, Ashley and Robert Vandermeer came last year. But the year. The last. The fall before that. So fall of 22, you know, one of our pastors who does the marriage ministry, you know, is like, hey, who's it, you know, who's a great speaker and who can really communicate and talk about intimacy and healthy sexuality? And I was like, oh, man, Absolutely. Without question, it would be Pure Desires. And I think Nick Stumbo would be an incredible fit. And so we were able to bring out Nick, and he spoke to over 250 guys and about 18 to 20 ladies. And he had all of her, a bunch of warriors there. And so just being able to, like, create these spaces where people can hear a holistic, biblical, clinical, neurologically informed, like, relational discipleship ministry that's proven, that's international. There's. There's very few. There's no other place to get the congruency that Pure desires has discovered from decades of blood Sweat and tears, you know, and people pouring your heart and soul and life into helping others heal. And like, so I mean it. And then lastly, I would just say one of the other impacts that I got to be a part of personally and like I was invited to speak at an anti human trafficking event from a person who has a survivor process, a survivor care process here in the church. So she invited me to come speak, but she's like, robert, I really would like you to speak from the, from the perspective of being a buyer, being an addict. So I said yes and showed up. And I get into this room full of survivors. These are ladies who have been trafficked, who have been, you know, super wounded, super marginalized. They have not been, you know, their dignity has been totally hurt. So I, but she wanted me to tell my perspective. So I shared my story and like how Jesus and the church and Pure Desires just gave me a new life. And you know, there was a, there was good receptivity, built some great relationships. Well, then she invited me back. She invited me to an anti trafficking symposium that was happening at a state level that was organized by Montana Department of Health and Human Services. And she connected me to the guy, the facilitator of that. And I was able to go to a symposium where there was probably, there was 35 people in the room. There were nonprofits and there were multiple different survivor care non profits and churches and organizations. And again, they wanted me to share my, how human trafficking was affecting the church. And my biggest, my perspective is that as a, as a man who engaged with unwanted behavior and my own cyclical behavior and like as I really studied this out and dove into research, you know, that was available, you know, the, the trafficking is inseparable from the pornography industry and there's just no way around that. And so I shared my story again and was. There was great receptivity. I met the program director for the governor of Montana. She was there and she was actually leading groups through a different ministry. And so we connected and she was leading ladies groups and she asked lots of questions about Pure Desire. And I shared with her for an hour and a half just the different nuances of, and the specific ways that Pure Desires is different. And so we had a great conversation. And the next day she told me that she actually had a document that was already in print on the governor's desk and she was getting ready to present a different sexual healing ministry to him for a grant. And she changed that the next day to Pure Desires and advocated for Pure Desires to be in that Place. And so the governor signed in a statewide grant so that any non profit or church in the entire state of Montana can have access to 2200 to start a pure design ministry in their church or their non profit. And you know, that was a gift that I got to be a part of because, you know, like, Because Jesus, like, transforms our life.

Yeah.

Because the church is a place where healing occurs and because Pure Desires, like has this biblical, clinical, neurologically informed, holistic model that doesn't marginalize the different dimensions of being human. It like takes the mind, the body, the spirit, and, and a person's past and present and future. And it just in a, in a very comprehensible way. Yeah. Gives the capacity for a person to personalize and understand their denial structures, their addictive cycle and the wounds that they're medicating and then a way of escape and a way for Jesus to heal and a community to live in. And like. And so I have a coherent narrative today because of your desires. And other people have greater capacity to connect with pure desires. Because I got to tell my story. Story I was given. It was a gift. So.

So we're in front of the Montana governor, Miss Montana. We're big.

We're big time. No, and I just, I want to say this, man. Like, I. People maybe not see this, you know, on zoom, but like, you are a large individual and you are like kind of this like, presence. And I think that it would be easy to look at you and not think that you are in tune with your emotions and that you can experience. Like, I love seeing people who have been in recovery for an extended period of time who still can't handle telling it without getting emotional. Like, it's clear that you have internalized the work of Jesus in your life and that this ministry got to be a part of it. And I think that that speaks to how powerful our story is. And again, I know we've talked about it already, but it's not just that Faith Chapel runs groups and that there are people who come there and go through it, but it is your individual story that ended up in front of survivors and then ended up, you know, talking to people in the local government. And it is such a powerful tool that we can use when. And Annie, you spoke to that too. Just how meaningful your story is when you get these opportunities to share it.

Yeah. Anything you want to add, Annie, about the impact you're seeing because of Pure Desire groups in your church?

Oh my goodness, the impact. First of all, marriages are being saved.

Let's Go.

That's the big one. And that the more we talk about it, the more we normalize, if you can say that word, unwanted sexual behavior, people are going to talk about it. They're going to come forward, they're going to say, I struggle with this. And because of Robert's story and, and the things that he went through, those are the things that have become his sword.

Yeah.

And he's using that sword to draw other men. And he is dynamic. He's got tattoos all over. He's. He. He's a man's man. And you would think that he wouldn't have a story like that, but he does, and he's willing to share it openly. And so I'm. I think that's why we are very successful, because Robert was. He had a life, and God made it to where he. God wants him to use his life, what happened to him? And he's doing that. He's being obedient. And so. Thank you, boss. I. I appreciate you.

Hey, I love serving with Annie. And just to conclude and answer just your question, Nick, a couple more ways about the impact in the community, I just want to make it, like, really clear that. That it would have never happened, like, without, you know, Patrick carnes and then Dr. Ted and Diane and. And, you know, without Rich and Deneen and then Nick and Amy and Trevor and his bride. And so there was an incredible gathering of people that has gone before us. What I love is that we're not. I'm not the. I'm not a pioneer. This Pure Desires isn't a pioneer ministry. They're pioneering and, like, entering and taking new territory, and they're entering new countries and they're, you know, taking this process into new languages. But we're walking on a path that others have walked. And secondly, like Nate Petzl and Jenny Petzl, our senior pastor, and their parents, Nate's parents, Steve and Caroline, like, Steve and I were meeting, and he was telling Nate that he thought I would be a good pastor for this position if it worked out. And so I'm incredibly grateful for them and their leadership because they were willing to say, let's create these safe places. Let's. Let's, like, address this. Let's not. Let's bring this to the light. And let's advocate for the person who's been affected, just like the person who's, you know, addicted, and let's advocate for them. And then thirdly, I would just say that I. We're. We promote pure desire counseling. We believe that, you know, Facilitating full disclosures is best done through peer desires and according to their best practice and recommendations with their counselors. If that can't be done with a professional in our area, if that can't be done, then Annie and I have facilitated those. But Annie was at my full disclosure. Like, you know, the guy who introduced me to group, Curtis Balden, like, he's home now. I got to be a part of his. His celebration of life in January. And Curtis and Annie were there when I did my full disclosure with my wife. Like, I wouldn't even be sitting in this chair if it wasn't for any Burt. Holding space for, you know, and hoping for the healing that, you know, she knew was possible for my wife and for our marriage and without you guys. So I just want to make that really, really clear. Like, it's. It's just such a gift to be in this chair and to be in the space and, you know. Yeah, we have, you know, in terms of the groups that I named that are in operation, about 11. I have a list in front of me also of. We have, oh, 1, 2, 3. There's, like. There's, like, four other groups happening in different parts of the country because we got to be a part of, like, resourcing them.

Yeah.

So South Carolina, good friends down there. There's stuff happening in Belgrade, in Butte, Montana. So it's just. The impact is.

Yeah.

Is incredible. It's such a blessing.

I just feel cool.

I need to say this. Like, I apologize to Faith Chapel. When we steal Robert and Annie to be on our staff, I just want them to hear it publicly for us. That that's. That's where we're headed. Uh, so, I mean, I know for, like, time we're getting into a lot of different things, and I really appreciate it, but maybe, like, on a practical level, just kind of bullet point what your process looks like when you recruit new leaders with a church of your size, you know, you do have a pool, but you also need people to funnel through groups. So what does that process look like at Faith Chapel?

Oh, man. Our leaders, our facilitators, come directly from the groups that they're in. We, in fact, all of our facilitators have come from the what Pure Desire offers. They want to pay it forward, and they know that this is going to be a life commitment. They're going to have to be aware of. Of their shortcomings, and they want to continue in this program to maintain health. They want to maintain their marriage. And so that's where we get our leaders is from the groups themselves. We also have several people here from other churches that want to take it back to their church. And so they're in these groups and they soak it up like a sponge in order to take it back to their home churches. So that has been a really huge success and that's how we have trained our guys. Also. Pure Desire makes it easy. With all the tools that you guys have, it makes it very easy. The training material, all of that is, is very beneficial and it's helpful. And so it's really what Pure Desire has done to allow us to bring that material forward to help these people become leaders.

One of the other things that we really have emphasized in the last two years is just every leader having a co leader and looking for a co leader. So in the last year, really year, year and a half have really tried to shift leadership to so that every leader is thinking about having a co leader and, and then asking we, we wouldn't. We really don't support somebody leading a process that they haven't co led through with another leader. Yeah, so just having like that mindset, you know, Jesus when he said is, you know, he gave his disciples his authority and sent him out to take the good news and preach the good news and, and you know, to deal with the darkness that was out there and, and speak directly to it, bring light to it. He sent them out two by two. And so we really tried to have that mindset. Yeah, Pure desires. Group leader training like is just absolutely necessary for somebody to lead. We background checks, you know, 50 state wide background check and then we also include a pastoral interview that allows any pastor to highlight, you know, experience and insight and recommendations about a person. So before anybody leads at Faith Chapel. And, and part of that's a system, you know, that was created before us. But that's, that is one of the, you know that system is there to serve people and to add safety and protection for everybody involved. So those are just a couple more things that are a part of this process. We, but they've, but every, you know when, yeah two and a half years ago there was, there was like four groups and now we've got multiple and they've all come from the groups. And so I just invite people like I'll look for the person who, who you know is loving recovery and like personalizing the resources and really diving in and, and I'll be like hey, I've got to be out, I've got to be out this week. Will you lead group this week? And so I Just start leaning into people early and inviting them to lead and then inviting them into that process. And, you know, we've had some people thrive, and we've had others say, you know, I've got to step back for a season. But we just. So. So we. We just try to be really gracious. I had a leader text me yesterday, hey, I can't. I can't lead right now. In this season. I got to prioritize my family. And I just was immediate, you know, in my response. No, I wasn't immediate. But by the end of the night, I was. Yeah, I was like, no, totally get it. Totally, totally understand and support your decision to prioritize your health, your recovery, your family. We will. We're here when you're ready to come back.

Yeah.

And so just giving people and. And a clear in and also an easy out if they need that. You know, I think that empowers people to make that decision. Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Another. Another thing, Robert. Another thing, Robert, if you want to address our. Our SOS here in the community.

Yeah.

Which is very important.

Yeah. Another part of guidance and care is navigating our relationship with those who are on the registry.

Sexual fenders.

And again, man, we're so grateful for peer desires. You know, we. We. We cannot run these groups well without operating according to best practices and group guidelines. And they're there for a reason. And a part of that is mandatory duty to report and legal dimensions. We live in a litigious society because, you know, well, for many different reasons, but we want to honor those. Those parameters of protection. And so, yeah, we. We are also helping, you know, people that are on the registry move towards sobriety and. And find tools and resources and relationships in the exact. And so we would advocate for them in the exact. Well, to the best of our ability, as we would simultaneously be acting. Advocating for survivors and those who have been affected, whether it be unwanted behavior or the betrayal, trauma, or the abuse. Man, we're just. We just know that we have an enemy. That man wants to do everything he can to steal, kill, destroy, and inhibit connection. Inhibit, like. And drive people into shame and isolation and darkness. And. And so we're just. We're privileged to be able to provide care for many different types of beautiful people that, you know, I. I think about James Reeves. He's become a personal friend. And he says, Dr. Reeves, like all addiction, all emotionally destructive behavior, and all compulsive behavior comes from three places. You know, things that are done from us, things that are done to us without our consent. Taken from us without our consent and then our own sin. And so what I love about Pure Desires is it really gives somebody a process to begin to understand, like, what was done to me, what was taken from me, what was handed to me that I didn't ask for what, what am I responsible for, what lies came in at the point of trauma, and then what does God actually say? That's true. And then those prophetic promises and renewing your mind are so transformative, and that would apply for so many of these beautiful people that we get to help.

Yeah, I feel like I should just break in and say that Robert is not a paid spokesman for Pure Desire Ministries, that these two are both leading.

Out of their pure passion.

Their. Yeah, their heart and their passion. It's. Yeah, it's encouraging for us, you know, both for you, Annie, and you, Robert, that you are continuing to say, you know, it's what Pure Desire provides. We use the resources, we follow the best practices, because sometimes here we can feel a little bit like we're talking into the void. You know, we make podcasts, we make videos, we send out emails, and you don't always know if it's getting used or taken to heart. And when you hear a church like Faith Chapel that says, well, we just listen to what Pure Desire says and we go and do it, and it's working. It's like, well, yes, that's what we hope for. That's what we're trying to do. I think for churches, there is a confidence factor there to say, you don't have to recreate the wheel. Yes, you can contextualize it in your own city, or there's always uniquenesses. But if, by and large, you just look and say, well, what would Pure Desire recommend? Okay, let's go and try that. We recommend it because we've paid the dumb tax and we see that it works. We see what leads to effective groups and effective healing. And we're not just trying to create busy work. We're really trying to create a system. And I think you can trust us. And I just love when a church says, we just do what you guys have put out, and it's working, and it's awesome to hear that, so thank you.

Yeah, we do.

We do trust you guys, and we've built that trust, and you've made yourselves available and, you know, highly integratous organization. And, you know, it's incredible. And, like, in. In conjunction with what you're saying, Nick, I, when I was given the privilege, because I, like, discovered this process while I was a pastor. I mean I was, I was baptizing, I was making disciples, I was preaching the good news. I was, I was very engaged. And like I told you earlier, I was, I was 40 hours a week hard labor, hardcore labor in a factory. And then I would do 20 hours at the church as a pastor, youth pastor, elder. And I was still caught up in a binge purge cycle and didn't know that it was a binge purge cycle. I was medicating behavior, I was medicating wounds with behavior that wouldn't heal. But my performance based transactional mindset really wasn't healthy. And so when I did discover this process and the light bulbs began to come on and I began to understand, you know, that how, how I was impacted by my family of origin, how I was impacted by society and the cultural dynamics that contributed to, you know, denial structures. When I was, you know, given, you know, perspective into my experience and shame and the things that I was medicating and, and was experienced healing, I began to go tell my story. So I was invited to the college, to the college that I graduated from. Hey, come tell your story. I was like, well I'm going to talk about recovery. And so in terms of like presenting this process to others, peer designers has created like the way the talking points and they've created all these resources and so I would go tell, I would go speak, but I would use these different materials that Pure Desires had already created. But then I would, I would put in my story and then, and then this, the last thing, Nick, that has been really beneficial is just being able to bring out, bring you guys to our community. That's another way that we're impacting your community. And we, you know, every time we brought you guys out to our community, the seats aren't as full as we'd like and, but, but we don't have know we're not the experts and, and you guys are. And so it's just been radical that Pure Desires allows their summits to be streamed. That's going to be coming in September and then, you know, in two weeks we'll have Rodney and Tracy right out here. You know, he's your advancement specialist, sits on the board, she's his amazing wife, one of your licensed clinicians. And we're going to do a parent training and we're going to then have a five session conference and we're inviting, you know, we've sent out thousands of emails and so you know, that's a, that's a, that's another way that if you're in a church that you can make a difference is you can bring out a person who knows the details and knows the complexities and yet can make it comprehensible and invite your. Invite. Invite your community in your church and it will have an impact. Lives will, will be changed.

Yeah. That's awesome. Do you think we should jump to the last question?

Yeah, I'm going to make one quick comment and then we're going to jump to the last question. So I'll make a quick comment and.

Then that I'll jump to and then I'll do the question.

Yep. It's funny you brought that up too. And I just, I just want to say, like, this weekend, Nick and Michelle, his wife, are going to be speaking at our church and doing a marriage conference. It's not a pure desire conference, but like it's a marriage conference. And so even finding these kind of like sideways, like, it's like the side door into the building, you know, we're not talking about recovery necessarily. We're talking about marriage and intimacy and sex and all of that. That can also be that front door. And I think that that's something too, that you can get creative. Like what fits your context, what you people, you know, people at your church are ready for.

So well. And if you know Pure Desire, the content may seem a little familiar. I'm looking forward to it. The marriage event.

I'm looking to forward.

Forward to it. You guys, this has been really amazing. I would love to have you close with just what, what final encouragement would you give to a church? I mean, you guys are at a large church. You've got groups humming like you're doing big things. What if someone is at that starting point of going, should we do this? Is it worth the effort? Could we. You know, maybe they're even a little discouraged after listening. Like, oh my word, we're at small church. We're never going to get to that point. Why even both. Like, there's just all the human stuff we all deal with. So what final encouragement would you give to a pastor or leader at any size choice church of the value of engaging with a pure desire ministry and bringing groups into your church.

Eddie, would you go first and then I'll close this out?

Sure. Well, you know, first of all, Pure Desire addresses the, the plague that we're living in. And because of this, it's nationwide. It's become more and more of a problem. It's streaming down to our kids. Pornography is very accessible. TVs, phones, computers. It's everywhere. And these young kids are getting bombarded at schools, even here at churches, and that just trying harder is not going to work. And so I think that because we're broken in community, we. We need to receive help in community. And so that's what we strive for. We need to. We need to talk about it. We need to talk about it a lot. And I think the more that it gets exposed, the more people are willing to come forward and finally admit, hey, I got a problem and I'm going to get in trouble if I don't do something about it. Another thing is that we will have people, ladies, who will go through the group and then decide they don't want to do this anymore. It's too hard. That's his problem, not mine. And. And so they step back, but only to come back and try it again.

Yeah.

Because of. Because you're always going to, you know, that old behavior is still there, and it's so easy to go back to that. And so if we can get even other churches involved, if we can get other congregants from other churches to come in and view the material and, and then bring it back to their church, that is just. It's phenomenal. We. We want to do it however. However we can. Yeah. And pure desire makes that very easy for us to do that.

Yeah. Thanks, Annie. I agree with everything you said. And in terms of, like, final words of encouragement, I just, you know, as. As a disciple of Jesus, as a husband, as a father, as the privilege of, you know, being able to be a pastor, I just think one of the most important things we can do is, is. Or any leader can do any, Any man, any woman can do any. Any father, any mother, any single individual, any son, any daughter is. Prioritize your own healing. That would be my first, first encouragement. You know, when we're. There's no place to escape the fall. And yet our story didn't start with imperfection. I just am amazed that, you know, in Ephesians it says that God, before He even created the world, decided in advance to adopt us into his own family. And in doing so, this gave him great pleasure, you know, to choose us to be holy and blameless in Jesus and purchase our freedom with the blood of His Son and forgive our sins. And like. So I, I know our story didn't start with imperfection, and it doesn't end with imperfection as a follower of Jesus. And yet here in the middle is this brokenness. And so prioritizing, healing and finding a place that is Safe. That is confidential, where my wounds can be addressed, because my wounds contribute to core beliefs, and core beliefs lead to thoughts and emotions, and thoughts and emotions lead to work themselves out in conduct and in behavior.

Yeah.

And so what I love about this pure desire process is it's inside out and outside in. It gives me a way to address the core beliefs. And, you know, from a biblical perspective, that's Romans 12:1. Not being conformed to this world, but being transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so I can address these core beliefs that are untrue, have a process, renew and be reoriented to what is true. And that will change the way that I think and feel over time, and that will come out in my behavior. So if you're a pastor or a leader or a father, you're, you know, you're a husband, like, prioritizing your healing is imperative as a mother, as a, you know, anyone. I think the second thing is if you can get into a group, if you can be a part of a peer zire group, I, I would just, I would highly encourage it. It's. It's an incredible discipleship process. I'll be. I'll be a male till I'm dead. Right? My masculinity is a part of my identity. It's a part of the gift of that God's given me, given us, given you. And so just understanding that sexual discipleship is so necessary in the church today, helping people understand the beauty and the gift of God in their gender is a radical gift. Thirdly, I would just say, form a coherent narrative. I. I know for myself there was a lot of disassociation, compartmentalizing, running. There was a lot of medicating. There was just a lot of stuff in my life that was incongruent. And I really, I really did have the Holy Spirit in me. I really did and was a follower of Jesus. And I really knew what I was doing wasn't helping, but I couldn't find a way out. And so when I discovered pure desires and was able to experience liberty and freedom in community gathered around Jesus, like, it was. It was absolutely incredible. And so fourthly, like, Jesus does heal. And so, like, you know, surrendering the past to him and the wounds like, and the lies and the trauma like that, that means I can receive something different, you know, lastly, I'll just say, like, prioritize self care. Like, you're worth. Yeah, you're worth it. You're worth the healing process. You're worth being transformed, and so are the people that you're leading and loving on, you know, and so advocating for them while prioritizing your healing and your. This process for you, I think is. Is. Would be my final word of encouragement. It's totally transformed the way I see myself, the way I see God, and the way I see other people. Yeah. Especially my family. And so I'm incredibly grateful.

Yeah.

He. He isn't a paid spokesman when he started, but you are now. Checks in the mail. Make sure you get compensated for your time. No, guys. Both. Robert, Andy, thank you so much for obviously being here with us today, sharing your experience, but it's just like it's dripping off of you, like, how passionate you are about this and that. It's impacting you guys on a personal level. And obviously, you guys are so passionate about helping other people. So thank you for the work you guys are doing at Faith Chapel and for being with us today.

Hey, we're thrilled.

Yeah.

Incredibly grateful. Thanks for having us.

Yes.

Thanks for trusting us with this process. We're. We're super grateful for the partnership.

Yeah, yeah. Go Montana.

Go Montana. That's right. And if you're a fan of the content, please subscribe, share with somebody, and write us a review. If you want more information on our groups, resources, or counseling, go to PureDesire.org and lastly, never stop being healthy.

That.