365 - Brand New Stats On Porn In The Church

Foreign.

To the Pure Desire Podcast, your biblically based and clinically informed approach to healing from betrayal and breaking free from porn. Happy day to you, listener. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 365 of the Pure Desire podcast here. Joining me as always, is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Knocky knock knock.

Who's there?

That's not a knock. A knock knock joke starts. Knock knock, knockety knock knock is a totally different thing.

I love how we did feel like an idiot today. That's fair.

I only have really one good knock knock joke and I've used it so.

I don't remember it. But anyways, okay, so tie it in. We have a really exciting announcement, something specific to research today on the episode. And we had our counterparts who are part of the superhost, which we talk a little bit about definition for that with Ashley Jameson and Heather Colbon to talk about this research stuff.

Yeah, knockety knock knock comes from a children's book that I used to read with my kids where this obnoxious frog would come to the door and want to sit in on his friend reading a book and popping popcorn. He kept like, you know, interjecting himself and it was fairly unwanted, but the. The main character always felt too bad about saying no. And so anyway, I think of it in terms of today's conversation. This is one of those topics that can feel like an unwanted guest at our front door. That's knocking and saying, you need to pay attention to me. And for many of us in the church, you know, in our own lives, if we've struggled, it's a topic that we'd rather just leave it outside, not talk about it, not address it. But I think what we're going to talk about today shows that this is a subject that's going to keep knocking and knocking louder and getting worse unless we open the door and get creative about how can we help people heal, how can we help people find pathways into their recovery, into rescuing their marriage? But we're not going to be motivated to do that if we keep ignoring the knock, if we keep ignoring what's going on. And so this was an episode to announce some. Some big stuff that we're doing and, and hopefully an encouragement to pastors and churches and leaders and to all of us as men and women to look around and say this is too big of a topic to ignore any longer. And it might be challenging, it might be difficult to let it in and figure out what to do, but if we do, there's Some real beauty and health that can come on the other side. And so I thought it was a great conversation. And, yeah, we're just really excited to kind of let people know publicly. Something that we've been really excited about internally for probably over the last year, 14 months or so.

Yeah. So let's get into it. Here is another Super Host episode with the hosts of our new show, Unfiltered, Ashley Jamison and Heather Kolb, where we have a special announcement for you. Super hosts, unite. You know what's funny is we talk about this all the time, the four of us, that it's like the Super Host episodes. When we do this, I'm not sure people know what we're talking about.

Honestly, it's just a way of congratulating ourselves.

We're all super, super us.

What happens when the Power Rangers all come together?

That's right. Or the members of Captain Planet is how I think of it. But that's a little bit older.

So.

We'Re not quite like that or like the band Earth Wind of Fire. But it's the idea for those who are listening and have no idea what we're talking about and why we're laughing is it's just when the four of us, who you guys are the hosts of our Women's Takeover episodes and the new show Unfiltered. Real talk about sex and love. And so, yeah, it's when we get both of our shows together. So that is what we mean. And we're excited that you guys are here. Thanks for being here.

Thanks.

They're super tired.

They're so excited to be here.

You guys are recording a batch of your own episodes today, so this is just the start.

We're saving. We're saving.

Yeah. Conserving. Yeah.

Gotta pace yourself.

It shows what's most important to you. That's cool. No, for real, though. If you haven't checked out their show, Unfiltered, it's on every platform. You can find podcasts and. Yeah, Unfiltered. Real talk about sex and love with Ashley and Heather. So check it out. Okay, so we have a really exciting announcement that we have not publicly told anybody about. We've been working on this for a while, but just wanted Nick to do the honors. Will you announce it to our listeners and our PD community, what we've been working on for the past. Feels like a year now?

Yeah. If you've been a part of some of our other events, particularly if you're one of our donors, you've gotten to hear some of the backstory on this, but it's really the first time we're talking about it publicly for sure, to our podcast audience. And to give a quick little backstory, you know, a couple of years ago we started, you know, realizing that everyone who was quoting stats about pornography use and people's struggles and the percentages of those were all using research that was seven or eight years old, or I guess at the time, five years old. And a lot of it had come out in a study that had been commissioned by Josh McDowell Ministries, and in conjunction with Covenant Eyes, they had worked with the Barna group to put out a report called the Porn Phenomenon. And it's got some incredible stats. It's where if you've ever heard Pure Desire talk about that only 7% of churches have a plan or a specific ministry to help people who are struggling with pornography. It comes out of that study. Well, anyway, in this field we work in, you know, we hear a lot of people speaking and talking and they would reference stats. And in my mind I knew, well, that came from the 2016 report, or that's from a 2012 Covenant Eye stat pack. That's from 2011. And so here we are post Covid. You know, we're in a really a new era where today's young adults all grew up with cell phones, smartphones, tablets in their hands as toddlers as part of their babysitter growing up experience that they've been accessing the Internet from before they probably knew even what it was. And we didn't have any new data on what, what is this generation experiencing? What are adults going through? And so we started a conversation with the Barna group to say we'd like to put out some new data, we'd like to do new research, some of which would build on that 2016 report, but also go well beyond it into some new areas that are of particular interest to Pure desire, like data more from women and from relationships and the impact it has on marriages. And so the further we got into it, the more excited we got because when we contacted Barna and started talking with them, they said, you know, this is the number one survey that we get questions about and the most common request we get to do a new survey. And so we started to feel like God was at work. We took the idea to our donors and got tremendous support. It was a big part of last year's fundraising dinner and year end push. And we were able to raise all of the funds to do this report. And so coming out in September here in 2024 will be brand new data and research on pornography use, the church rate of use by Christians, men, women, there's just all kinds of information coming out that we think is going to give us a fresh perspective on what's happening in our world and specifically what's happening in the church and among Christians. Because that's one of the beautiful things about these kind of reports is that as they ask questions, you know, in the demographic questions they ask up front, they can separate out what did men say on this? What did women say? What did Christian men say? What did you know, we could get granular all the way down to what did Christian young men in their early twenties say on this question? And as you look at, you know, some of those age comparisons of millennials versus boomers versus Gen Z, there's some pretty fascinating information in there. And so I think on the whole that the goal here is to really help put a spotlight back on the struggle that can be so hidden and secretive and help equip pastors and leaders and Christians to have this conversation that by and large we are still not having. And so that's the announcement is that there is a brand new study coming out from Barna commissioned by Pure Desire to give us fresh and relevant information on what is happening in this whole area. And we can't wait to see the impact that it will have on really reinvigorating this conversation and more importantly, reinvigorating the conversation around how do we help people who are struggling.

Yeah, and we'll talk about this a couple times, but wanted to hit it up front that we actually have a launch event for this study being released and we have this Barna launch event and it's on September 19th. You can go to PureDesire.org Barna launch and you have more details at the end of the episode. But wanted to make sure that people know this is going to be a time where we unpack with, you know, we'll talk about a little bit later who all is going to be there but unpack the study? What do we do in our churches? And we're hoping that pastors, church leaders, motivated volunteers would come to this event. So PureDesire.org Barna launch okay, so there.

Might be some listeners who have no idea what Barna is, what the Barna Group is. So for them. Can you explain who the Barna Group is?

Yeah, the Barna Group is, it's really a Christian based research firm. And for those that are watching online, we can like here, Nick, hold this one up for me. They do all of These like they did the porn phenomenon back in 2016, State of Pastors, they've done study on Gen Z. And what they do is they really do this research and then they put it into a journal or a study that comes out. And the journals are. I mean, for anybody who cares about production value, they're gorgeous. And it's not only do they put out these. It's not just statistics, it's also commentary on what the statistics are showing us or revealing. You know, they did one recently on the State of Moms and they worked in association with MomCo. And man, it was unbelievable even, you know, seeing some stats that based on the influence that women have in their own homes, that if a church can reach a mom, they can reach the whole household and the impact that it has. And Barna is a part of that. They're able to find that information and then put commentary around that shapes our perspective when it comes to so many different things. Culture, church, family life, our own spiritual walk. And so they are the expert in this field, especially when it comes to the Christian atmosphere. And so they have. I don't know how long they've been around. They've been around for a long time. David Kinnaman, who's now the president, we've had relationship with him now for a little while. And they're just a group that has. The reason why we use Barna is they are a group that has the ear of the church. And that's what's so important for us is we want to try to get more pure desire groups, more healing opportunities into those communities. Who could we use as kind of the megaphone to get more people to hear about really, not only the stats and the needs that people have when it comes to this area, but how do we help equip those churches to help those people in need?

Yeah. The truth is that if your pastor has quoted a stat in a sermon in the last couple of years, it's probably from a Barna study more often than not. And there's other groups that do great work, Pew research and, and some like that. But. But I think Barna's reputation precedes it. They're. They're trusted and they're really have a heart, I think, to, to not just expose issues, but to move the conversation towards solutions and help. And like, like, let's address these things. And part of addressing a problem is you first got to face it. Like you got to know the reality of what is in front of you. And then when you see that, then I think you can really strategize about what the steps are to face it appropriately. So what are some of our hopes for this study team? What would you say? Why did we do this in the first place?

I think even just how you started off this episode talking about, we want people to have accurate, up to date information. And I know, you know, all of us on, you know, all of us, super host, we all speak and we all kind of run around with other people in the field and, and you hear the same stats being used over and over. So just, just that alone, having updated information for when we are going out there and trying to equip leaders, pastors, teachers, that we have accurate information and reflection of our reality right now, especially post Covid. And I was even thinking about, you know, some of the stats where we're able to ask the 18 to 25 year olds about their first exposure. I can only imagine even those stats are even higher because from the time, you know, they were nine, 10 years old, maybe when they were first exposed, eight or nine years, 10 years have already passed. And it's like we have social media and all this stuff. So just bringing awareness that our realities are shifting so quickly and what kids are being exposed to, what couples are going through. My job here at Pure Desire with helping the church and leaders, I just think about it. If pastors knew that 76% of their congregants were struggling with alcohol or drugs, what would we be doing and how serious would we be taking that as a church? We would probably have all kinds of programs like, this is a, this is a crisis. This is, you know, we have to take care of this. And that's what's happening with pornography. But it's so subtle and it's, it's secretive and it's underground and it seemingly doesn't have the same impact as drugs and alcohol, but it is in my opinion, even far more detrimental to the family, to the marriage, to the fabric of who we are as Christians and believers. And this is what's happening. So just trying to highlight that. So like you said, we have the awareness and then we can take that information and start making change.

I also thought that of course raising awareness of the problem and even if the problem has gotten worse since the 2016 survey, that was important. But also when it comes to finding solutions, I think that that was really our heart was to see if this is what we do at Pure Desire, we provide groups and we provide counseling and we provide these other services. But for people who are struggling with pornography, is that what's going to help them? Is that what they think is going to help them? And so I thought that that was really insightful in the questions that we asked was to be able to say, okay, out of These, however many 10 things, are you going to go to a 12 step program? Are you going to go to your pastor? Are you going to go to, you know, these different sources to find help? What are going to be in that top category? Is it going to be the things that we offer at Pure Desire? Is it realistic to expect that we are part of the solution? And so I thought that that was for our team, really insightful for us moving forward and really how we want to not only be equipped ourselves, but also to equip the church to be able to be part of the solution.

It helped us too with, you know, it's not just based on this one organization's perspective or the assumptions that we have. I think research and statistics like this kind of create a baseline and we hear this a lot that they're. And again, it's not that pastors think their churches are perfect, but it's easy to assume. Like, unless I've heard of these, like crazy situations or crashes in my church, this isn't going on. And what we're trying to do is open the eyes of church leaders and the people who are leading these, you know, faith communities to see that, no, no, no, at just at a statistical base, this is happening everywhere and our heart too behind this is not just like, hey, here's how screwed up your church is. Good luck. Like it's, here's what's going on in your church. And positioning us as the support to help churches be able to run Pure Desire groups and to help men and women who are struggling with sexual addiction or pornography use and help men and women who are experiencing betrayal trauma. Because if you look at scripture, the centerpiece of a community is the marriage. And if the marriage is being deteriorated by this issue, then what better way to the enemy to attack faith communities? And what better way for us to bolster up, you know, what God intended to be the centerpiece. And so I feel like this gives us a tool to use when talking about to faith communities to try to address this issue.

Yeah, I remember when my family and I first moved to Gresham about eight years ago. We moved into a new construction area. And you know, as such, there was, you know, mice and, you know, wild animals kind of in that area. And one day when I pulled into our garage, I saw a snake in our garage. And if, if you know me, you know, like, I, I despise snakes. It's like Indian top of my list of fears. Just like. And I was motivated to deal with that problem. My eyes were open, and I was like, I was not going to rest until that snake was out of my garage and dealt with. Because I was just, like, I could not rest knowing it was there. Well, why did I feel that way? It's because I'd seen it. It's because my eyes were open to a problem. And then that was the compelling motivation I needed to deal with it. And I think of this survey and some of the data and stats. I hope it's that feeling for us as people, as leaders, as spouses, as parents. Like, I see the problem and now I am compelled to do something until I feel like it's actually being dealt with, it's being addressed. And so those are the words that come to mind for me as eye opening, compelling. And then you said it, Trevor. I think really it's a tool that we know many of those listening to our podcast are not pastors, but you do have a motivation to help your church and to say, what could I do to bring this to my church, to help my staff or pastor consider launching groups in our community? We really hope this data is that tool that you could say, hey, have you heard the data? I'd love to hand you this report. I'd love for you to look at this, because if you don't have to be the one to try to open their eyes, you can let the data do that. That might be the moment of clarity for a pastor or leader to say, okay, we've put this off long enough. We have to do something to help our people. And if it could create that kind of motivation, then I think the report would be well worth it.

Yep, totally.

So have we had a chance to look at some of the research and is there anything that we can share with our listeners today?

Well, I'll tell you, the report is so great, and it represents a summary already of hundreds, and I mean literally hundreds of pages of data that the Barna team is doing a great job of, you know, sifting through that and pulling out the pieces they think are most relevant. But we have had a chance to preview a lot of it, and a couple of the things that have really stood out to me, and we got to share a little bit of this at a conference in Colorado Springs in May. But one of the things I found compelling was that the research showed that 56% of US adults believed that you can view pornography as a way of improving your sex life. And what's maybe interesting to note about that is it was consistent among Christians and non Christians because we might think of that as a cultural view. And yet it has very much influenced the church for people to think, oh, this is just something you do. It's something that can actually help your sex life. Whereas what we know on the underside, the way it's damaging your brain, your ability to have authentic relationships, you know, to treat people like people and not as objects, is all being destroyed. And so just that, that recognition of how maybe common or accepted has become, I thought, was a big data point. Another one that's been compelling to me, and I've been sharing in a couple of smaller gatherings, is people are asked the question, among those who would say they have any kind of struggle or are viewing pornography, the question was asked, who is helping you avoid pornography? And overwhelmingly, there were all these responses of a friend, a spouse, a pastor, a counselor. I can't remember, there were a couple of others. But one of the responses was, no one. And overwhelmingly people said, no one. No one is helping me avoid pornography. On the low end, I think it was Gen Xer said, it's like 75% said, no one is helping me. And then on the high end, Boomer. So those who are, you know, in their 50s, 60s, and 70s, who maybe feel the stigma of, well, I should be over this by now, 92% of them said, no one is helping me avoid pornography. And so it just, for me, underscores how hidden and secretive and silent this entire area is. And I look at our role as Christians, you know, we're called in Galatians 6 to bear one another's burdens. And yet, if three quarters and more of our fellow Christians are saying, no one is helping me, are we doing that? Are we living out Galatians 6 or are we just turning our back on a problem and hoping people figure it out? So those are a couple that have really been impactful for me.

Yeah, some of the things that have stood out to me are, and you'll see this in the study, that there's not as big of a gap between how the world and the culture at large views pornography and its struggle with it and where Christian people are as well. It's not this, like, gaping hole between the two. It's something that's like. It's alarming how close the two numbers are really to each other. But another thing, too, just a trend that I picked up on as we were going through the study is how much more significant women view pornography or sexual brokenness and its impact on the marriage, how their view is much higher than men who are in same marriages. And so it's kind of a crazy thing to think about that, you know, and again, this is part of why I think this is going to help shape the conversation is because a church will tend to go to the person who's struggling and try to help them, when in reality they're not necessarily feeling the impact to the same degree that the betrayed partner is. And so that kind of information is super helpful because now I know I need to help both of these. As a church leader, I need to make sure there are support groups for both of these people so that they can process what's going on. And I just don't think that that's the standard approach in the church. And so that was another really interesting standpoint.

Well, and to piggyback off what you're saying, it's normally the betrayed partner that has the pain level that gets them out there looking for resources, motivates them. Yeah. And so if, if it's normally the betrayed partner that's reaching out for resources, finding things that will help their spouse, then then we should have something for them as well, because we can capture and help more people. And a couple of the stats that I noticed is, I mean, obviously if we have 76% of people admitting that they view porn and only 10% issues of churches have something in place to help them. I was looking at the stat that said only 34% of people think their church leaders are well equipped to help. And that number has actually dropped from 45% in 2015. And so of course, me being like the person who helps churches, you know, at Pure Desire, and I'm just like, we are missing a major opportunity, a major discipleship opportunity. I cannot speak today, but discipleship opportunity, because when people have sexual shame or there's brokenness in their marriage, it hinders them and not only how they are in their relationship with their marriage, but the relationship with God, how they parent. I mean, it cripples everything. And so as a church, if we know the majority of our people in church are struggling with pornography or even betrayal from this brokenness. And. And they're saying our church is not well equipped or like the stat Nick shared that they feel like they have nobody to help them, this is just like a wide open opportunity for churches and leaders to step into that gap.

Well, and I thought it was interesting too, that that question that you're talking about where we asked the attendees, do you think that your church or your pastor is equipped to deal with this? We also asked that same question to pastors and to the youth leaders, and it was kind of a little bit shocking that they're like, no, this is not something that they even teach us about in seminary. And so we don't necessarily feel like we are as equipped as we probably need to be, given the prevalence of the issue.

Another thing that is, I think, is important, and it really does speak to what we do and how we approach this issue, that 65% agree somewhat or agree strongly that with enough willpower, a person can overcome a porn addiction. And. And we know that to not be true, and we know that that tends to be the exact approach the church takes. Just read your Bible more, pray more, serve more, spend more quiet time. It's all willpower. I can, I will, I want. You know, there's all these different things that are a part of that, and I feel like that kind of information is really helpful to see that. We need a new approach, we need a new avenue to try to address this. And, you know, in some ways, we're over here at Pure Desire, kind of like, hi, been here the whole time.

Help.

Like, happy to help. This is our heart. Because really at the core of what we want to do, and kind of going back to why we did this study with Barna is our heartbeat is the church. We want to equip the body of Christ to be able to address this with confidence, knowing that we're going to restore relationships and restore communities and create really a new generation of people who are walking in sexual health. And I think that this Barna study is really going to help us do that. Okay, so let's talk about what the study will cover. Maybe not specific to stats, but what are some of the themes or topics that are gonna be addressed in the study?

So definitely looking at the populations who say that I use porn or I look at porn, and the frequency of that, taking into consideration even a lot of different dynamics about that we already mentioned. Is anybody helping you? Are you seeking help? What type of help do you think would be best? Or, you know, a lot of those kind of things. We also looked at, we mentioned this a little bit, practicing Christians, non practicing Christians, and then non Christians. We looked at pastors, youth pastors, general population, men and women. And so I think that with that, I was really happy with the different degrees or the different demographics that we were able to draw from for this study. And then, of course, it is talking about, you know, for the betrayed partner. You know, how has this impacted your relationship? And, you know, and even have you been able to get any help from your church? And even with youth pastors saying, you know, even their level of awareness? Because I think sometimes when you're just not just, but when you're the senior pastor, you, you know, and you're dealing with everybody and you're dealing with all the adults, it might look a little bit different than when you're dealing with students. Because students today, they want to talk about sex. They want to have a greater understanding of it. They want it to just be something that is normal and that we can just, you know, have a conversation about where we're at and what does the Bible actually say about using pornography and masturbation and all of those conversations. But then being able to look at the youth pastors and saying, you know, how often does this come up in your youth group? How many students have you actually had conversations with about this? And again, how equipped do you feel to be able to handle these issues? And so, I mean, I think it's pages and pages and pages of really excellent information. But then practically, what that looks like in the church, I think is going to be so helpful.

One of the things, too, for the first time that it was not covered in the first study, but really was looking at the impact on marriages and for that betrayed and hurting spouse. And I, I know some of the room feel like it didn't go far enough, and that may be a great subject for another report that that really dives deeper into because there is so much there. And that's, I think, one of the limits of a report. Like, you start getting into it and you think, oh, how many questions could there be to ask? You know, do you struggle with porn or not? And then, But I think the, the one we looked at, There were over 100 questions they were asking, and we just kind of ran out of room. But. But there is some really good information coming out about has your spouse struggled? How did this make you feel? Has your marriage been able to recover? Was there anyone that you could go to and ask for help? Is there anyone who knows those kind of pieces, I think, can help us? As I think concerned Christians and leaders say this isn't just a man's problem. This isn't just confined to the individual who is struggling. This is something that needs to be addressed as a couple. And we've got to help both spouses navigate this minefield in their relationship. Because if we just help the struggler, we're only helping half the equation. And in any problem in life, if you only have a half solution, it's probably not a solution at all. And I think that may underscore why many churches find that this hasn't been a very successful ministry for them, because they're only helping half of the problem. And this may create that momentum to say, man, we could really help both couples, both spouses healing. And if that helps marriages in our church, man, that's. I think that really grabs the heart of a lot of leaders because we all know how important marriages are. And I think this report will help underscore that impact on marriages.

This analogy came to mind. It's like if you break both legs, but you only do PT on one of them and only reset the bone on one of them, like, over time, that one will heal. But if your other leg has not fully healed, you're going to be walking with a limp and funky, which messes up the whole system. And the same thing is true in a marriage. We need to have both sides offered. And I think this really will help paint the picture that betrayed partners feel like they're on an island. They feel like they're alone. No one understands. No one can help me. I'm stuck in this. The church keeps telling me to just forgive or to have more sex with my husband or whatever. And what they're doing is. It's actually just over time. It can be a forms of abuse, really is what's happening. And so I think that this paints that picture. And what I love is we're not just looking at the stats. We're bringing in betrayal experts as a part of roundtables and people who are adding their voice to the commentary. It's not just us, like, we're tapping other organizations that we have a high level of trust with that are the leading voices in this area to help paint this picture clearly for churches, that we need to help the betrayed partner as well. And honestly, at the front end, maybe even more than we need to for those struggling. But that's what I love, is that this isn't going to be something where it's just, well, here's the information. You choose what to do with it. It's. We're going to add commentary, and these outside voices of experts that we trust are also going to add that flavor to it.

Yeah, I think what I really appreciate about this study is we do hear churches say, oh, we don't. That's not really a big problem in Our church or, you know, we have something in place, you know, they have some other kind of Bible study that they feel like covers everything, including sexuality. And it's just not enough. It's not in depth enough. You know, two weeks is not going to cover it. And so. Or as you know, the homeschool mom that says, oh, my kids, you know, we have everything locked down. I'm like, it does not matter how, how much you lock things down. The exposure is just unavoidable these days. Completely unavoidable. And so I like that. It's, it's highlighting it. You may be one of those churches, and not to. To say I told you so so or shame you or anything, but you may be one of those churches that thinks, this is not really in our church. This is out there, it's not in here. And the statistics are showing that it is everywhere and it's in all churches. And it doesn't have to be this big, overwhelming process to launch all these pure desire groups to start with, even just starting with the conversation or even sharing some of these stats from the report once you get it with your church, to just lower the shame. And saying this was really eye opening. And I am sure this is a part of our church, too. And if this is a struggle for you, you don't have to feel shame. This is just something that the church needs to start addressing.

I think it's also important to mention that the last section of this study is going to be on what the path to healing and recovery looks like and how do we help the church and really start to shape our churches as a safe place where people can go. And again, I think it's important if you're a pastor or a leader and someone shared this episode with you or you're, you know, one of our listeners and you're checking it out, I would just say, like, you don't have to be the expert. We talk about this all the time. Pastors and leaders in the church do not have to be an expert in this area in order to help. That's why you need to find competent resources to implement into your church. And like, that's what we want to do. That's our heart is to resource you. There may be. No, I kept. I went into the next question. You're asking the next question.

I am going to ask the next question. Are we done here? Yes. Okay. All right. So how can our listeners and community help push and promote this study?

That's a great question. Buying the study is going to be a Huge piece, I think, going to Barna.com, we'll also be selling it on our website. You can get the study. And again, stats are great to know, but it's also a tool to be used. And so our hope for this study is that it's going to shape the way that we talk about this issue and the way that we view how we approach it. So that's one way, I think another way is to, if you are buying it or you come to the Barna launch event, which you'll get a free copy of this study, or if you come to the Pure Desire Summit, you'll also get a free copy. But you can give this to church leaders as well. You can hand this to your pastor and say, like, look, this is something that is really important to me, or I'm really interested in it. Here is information on it. And really make sure that you're not saying, hey, this is homework for you to do so that you can do all this work. But it's like, hey, I just want you to know this is information that's out there, that this is happening in our church. And I want to help be a part of creating the solution in our community. And so I think that this can just be a tool that if it just sits on the shelf, it's not going to do anything. Like you got to actually use it. But I think having the study in hand and equipping yourself with this information is going to help.

And over the next couple of months, you're going to see from Pure Desire, a lot of social media posts come out, maybe emails. And a huge part of that for you, our listeners, might be forwarding that to someone or sharing it or reposting it, because that is, in today's digital world, how so many things get marketed is kind of that viral people sharing with people kind of process. And I think one of the powerful things about this, it's much like we've talked about our testimony being so important because people can't argue your personal testimony. They can't say, like, well, that's not true. It's like, well, no, I lived it. This is true for me. Like, oh, okay, I'm thinking about that. And I think data and stats have some of that impact that you might try to argue about what the data means or even the method of how it was collected. But numbers are numbers and numbers don't lie. And so if you could share, like, here's the percentage of our young adults that are looking at pornography weekly. Here's the Percentage of marriages that have been impacted by one spouse's porn use. And if that can help create some of those eye opening moments for others, that's really our heartbeat behind this, is just that this kind of becomes a cultural moment along with other things that are happening, you know, as we see states that are addressing the more progressive, violent forms of pornography and starting to pass some age verification laws. And there are finally some successful lawsuits that are being levied against the porn companies that have used their websites to exploit minors and vulnerable people. So some of those things are happening culturally. And I think it may be a moment where if we can just be sharing the data, sharing the information, sharing the stats, say this isn't just a big bad problem out there, like this is a common thing that we're, we're all dealing with in our families and our churches, I really believe it will create that opportunity for widespread change, for widespread use by leaders of our material and resources to say, we are going to help people, we're going to help marriages, we just can't wait any longer. So I think that's my encouragement. If you can share a stat, repost, pass it along, it really does make a difference in how many eyeballs get on this study.

Yeah.

And I mean, you kind of said it, Nick, but anytime we can connect our personal story, and so even promoting it in church or speaking with your pastor, if there's a stat that sticks out and you can think of an experience you've gone through or something that you've personally experienced around that stat, then it'd be a good time to share it. I remember a gal saying, I heard you guys promoting the betrayal and beyond groups for forever, but it wasn't until you stood up quickly and you said, hey, I'm Ashley, just to let you know, like, I've been through this stuff personally and I want you to join me. She was like, yeah. Then it was a real person who's been there. Your face. Yeah. And I was like totally comfortable coming to you. And so I think, you know, we don't have to pour out our whole story, but when we can say, here's a few stats and I've personally experienced the impact of these and I could see this being something that I want to help with in church, then it just kind of brings it home that these are real people we're talking about.

Yeah, I think I was thinking too that like a pastor who might be listening, like using these stats as a way to help people understand that this is something that isn't just happening if you think about the people who are sitting in your congregation who feel shame and they're struggling and their marriages are impacted, if you're able to quote stuff from a study like this, you're not alone. And it shows, like, hey, look, this is something that's going on and it's not what it does is it helps create that culture that this is a safe place to ask for help and that we want to address this and be real about it. And so it's also a tool that can be used from the front.

So we mentioned this at the beginning of the episode. And so can you tell people what is the barn along and also what can they expect if they attend?

Yes. Well, hopefully our podcast listeners know that the summit is coming up September 20th and 21st here in Gresham, Oregon, and we're super excited about that. But we know that for a lot of people and maybe for pastors and leaders in particular, coming to a two full day event is a big ask and a big time commitment. And frankly, for many pastors, it's just not going to fit their schedule. And so we wanted to create an opportunity specifically for pastors and leaders. And we're not going to, you know, ID people at the door to make sure they're a pastor. But that's the heart of it. Like, we want to help leaders in the church think through this problem and hear from other church leaders about what's happening in the church and how we can really proactively address this issue. So that's the day before the summit on Thursday, September 19, at the embassy Suites Hotel near the Portland airport. We're going to do a lunch event with David Kinnaman from the Barna Group, who will be there to unveil the stats. And we'll have the report and everyone who comes gets a free copy of it. But we also have some other great guests. Randy Alcorn, Christian author and speaker and pastor, will be there just sharing his heart around this topic. And he wrote a little book on this a number of years ago called the Purity Principle. And I think he's got some great insights. We're going to have Shannon Etheridge, who is the author of Every Woman's Battle, helping us understand the impact this has on women. And I think she'll bring a great voice to the event. And then also one of our summit speakers, Joshua Broome, who is a pastor who in his past life was a porn star and has this incredible story of transformation and is now living out that story as a pastor. He'll be there to share insights as well. And then Ashley and I will be on a panel on the Pure Desire side, just trying to rally around, not just revealing the stats, but really thinking through at a church leadership level. Like, what do we do with this? What steps can we take? How can we help people heal and do again what Galatians 6 says, to bear one another's burdens and not leave people suffering alone. So I think it's going to be a powerful event. And maybe you're listening and you're not a pastor or a church leader. Would you take that to your pastor and say, hey, could you visit this site? Could you think about going? I'd love to see you there. We've made it pretty affordable. Basically just trying to get some help from the tickets to cover the cost of lunch, but you're going to get way more than the cost of the meal. I think it's 29 bucks for the meal and a free report and all. Hearing all these great speakers in person. And we hope you'll join us and that pastors and leaders will hear this and feel like, oh, I could go spend a couple of hours on a Thursday afternoon even if I can't come to the summit. But if a pastor or leader does want to do the whole thing, we'll give them a discount on the summit if they stay for Friday and Saturday as well.

So, yes.

Yeah, Hope people will come to the launch event and we'll have a great group of pastors and leaders there that day.

Yeah. And so Again, go to PureDesire.org Barna-Launch to register. There's also an option to grab a whole table if you want to bring your whole team. You can buy a table and then have everybody there. You don't actually get to take the table with you, but you get to attend with your team. And this is the official launch worldwide of this study. And so we're really excited to have all these big names there. We're excited to get this out into the world and we hope it's just so, so helpful. But again, if you come to this Barna launch. PureDesire.org Barna launch and you're already in town. Might as well come to the summit. PureDesiresummit.com, we'll make sure all these links are in the show notes. We've said this around the office a number of times, but this Barna study feels like the biggest thing Pure Desire has ever done. And we're praying that God uses these stats and insights not only to open more doors to more churches, but help shape the conversation inside the church of how we address this issue, the options for care and recovery and healing. And it's clear that men and women are still struggling. And it's clear that the church is still not caught up to this issue. That if there are 90% of churches out there that still don't have an actual plan that's communicated to their people, we want to try to close that gap. And so again, come to the Barna launch event, get your free copy. Or if you want to just go onto our website or barna.com and buy a copy of this in September, please do it and help get this information out there because we want to use this as a tool to help the body of Christ heal. Super hosts. We have done it. Again, thank you so much for Ashley having you in studio. It's great. Thanks for the conversation, guys. Appreciate it. And as always, if you're a fan of the content, please subscribe, share it with somebody and write us a review. If you want more information on our group's resources or counseling, go to PureDesire.org and lastly, never stop being healthy. Sam.