367 - Stories Of Healing: Vicki & Johnny Greenfield

Foreign.

To the Pure Desire podcast, your biblically based and clinically informed approach to healing from betrayal and breaking free from porn. Hello, people, I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to episode 367 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here joining me as always, is my co host, Nick Stumbo.

And it's too late, baby.

Oh, my gosh.

I like. Is there more?

It's actually a song I'm not that familiar with beyond that one lyric.

Okay.

I have never heard culturally is what people know too. It's. Then it's too late, baby.

I don't know.

It is. Carole King is the original. Do you know what year?

No.

What decade do you think?

Not a clue.

70S.

Okay.

1971.

All right.

Fair been around for a while.

Okay, you have been. You've been singing a lot more recently. Do you. I don't know if you noticed this. Like, it's just.

Maybe we've run out of other options. Trevor. There's a lot of music out there, so.

That is true. That is true. I heard on the interview recently, someone was asked like, so you know, have you always been like a super fan of music? And he's like, am I a human being, like, who doesn't like music? Okay, so today, tie it in, because we had Johnny and Vicki Greenfield's on the show. People who've been with Pure Desire for a long time have a long story of healing. And we had them on to talk about their story and share it.

Yeah. And I think that's one of the elements that stands out as you'll hear today. You know, it was two decades into their marriage that some of this comes to light. And I'm sure painful and difficult for them to work through. And they didn't really find resources or people to lead them onto a sustained healing pathway. And so it kind of went back underground. And then it's at year 30 that it resurfaces. And I think for a lot of people, there is a feeling of at that stage in life, in marriage, it's too late. We can't change. He can't change. And Vicki talks about that like, I was ready to leave, ready to be done. And I think that's a mindset of what's the point if it hasn't gotten better? After 30 years, we're done. And yet even in the intro, they're talking about, we've had this 47 year marriage. Well, kind of two marriages. 17 good years.

17 years.

And that's really what they talk about today is just the joy they found the hope, the freedom, and the ministry to others because they didn't give up. They didn't just say, well, it's too late, I can't change, we can't heal. They were willing to do some hard work and they're getting to walk in the fruit of that. And I hope that's an encouragement to everyone, because I think that's an element of all of our stories. Whether we are early in marriage or late when this comes up, there are elements to it that feel like, yeah, I've blown it, I've messed up, I've made too many mistakes, it's too late, you can't go back, you can't undo what's been done. And some of that's true. You can't just erase the past. But there is an invitation to say, whatever day we're on when God invites us into a healing journey, it's not too late. And there is hope. And God can restore what's been lost and can lead us into something very deeply fulfilling and meaningful, no matter what stage of life we're in. And so. So I hope people take tremendous encouragement from it. They're a great couple, they're helping a lot of people, and I'm just glad we got to have them on today.

Yeah, it was a super good time, great story, and I think you're going to be encouraged a lot by hearing Johnny and Vicki's story. So let's get into it. Here is Johnny and Vicki Greenfield's story of healing. Johnny and Vicky Greenfield, welcome to the Pure Desire podcast. We are glad to have you with us.

Good to be here.

We are going to dive into your story of healing. We have a lot of history with you guys. We've had relationship with you guys for a long time. And it's funny, it took our donor development manager, John Beguman, to just be like, hey, you should have the Greenfields on. And I'm like, oh, yeah, we totally should. And so we're gonna dive into you guys story of healing. And I know you got a lot of history with Pure Desire to have a great story. And we just wanna kind of give our listeners another perspective from people who've gone through the process and are leading groups, are now helping other people. And so let's just jump into it. How about you first just start by introducing yourself, like what you do, family, how long you've been married, all that. Why don't you just introduce yourself to our listeners?

Oh, my name's Johnny and that's my wife, Vicki. We've been married 47 years right now. Wow. 48 in August 20th.

We have two daughters, adult daughters, and three grandkids. And we're at the retirement stage where we're really enjoying our adult children and their kids. Yeah, we've got more time. We just built a new cabin. And so when we're not doing groups, we're, you know, being with our grandkids and taking a place, is trying to help the kids out with all the softball games and horse stuff, and it's really fun. Fun time of our life, actually.

Own property in Oregon, so. Okay.

We're.

We're neighbors. Okay. There you go. Very good.

Glad to know that.

Okay, let's jump into your story here. What was your family of origin like? And what kind of culture did you both experience when it came to the topic of sex, sexuality, sexual brokenness?

Well, that's an interesting story because I. I'm not blaming my folks. I. I know they did the best they could, but they. They both came from trying to escape their own family of origin, really. I didn't quite understand what was going on. I grew up with the babysitting, using the TV for that black, old black and white, you know, and I. I loved westerns. Yes. Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, all the favorites, you know, and the Rifleman was a big one. But they worked late at night, you know, and they. They. They're off doing their own thing, which we're grateful for. But the topics of sex wasn't really spoken. I remember I got real excited one weekend. My folks took me on a cattle drive out in the Hawaii mountains. That's out in the sagebrush. And I got to ride my own horse. I was probably 8, 9 years old. I thought it was really wonderful. I mean, we'd take the cattle just like in the movies, and we'd. We'd push them from one pasture to another. And at the end of the. The trail ride, we'd gather them up and they'd go through the cattle chute. You know, that was a man. I thought I was on fire. And then we'd gather up for the meal time at the campsite. They had this old barn, and I was drawing the barns and equipment, tractors. And I went out in the barn, and to my amazement, there was a whole wall full of pornography on the walls. And I didn't realize what I was seeing, but I was intrigued and the cunning part of it. And then my dad came in and took me out of there. And then later on that night, around the campfire, they turned around on me. To make me a joke. And I thought, wow, my folks aren't even safe. I got to hide this. So something that started really early, knowing that my own parents didn't have the words to choose and guard me from all this is all that was a hard time.

Vicki, what about you? What was your family of origin around this topic?

You know, I was raised in the 60s and 70s and I had a hard working dad and my mom took us to church. There was no purity culture. My mom was pretty open about things, but we, I mean, open about letting me do what I wanted to do, not telling me. I, you know, had to follow any rules, really. But I did follow rules because I'm like one of those naturally kind of modest rule following people. But sexually, there was nothing talked about at home. There was not even intimacy modeled at home. They were very careful not to be that. I don't even remember seeing my parents hold hands. If my mom kissed my dad, he'd act silly, you know, like he was embarrassed in front of his kids. And if I had questions about sex, as I was getting older, my mom would seem to be so embarrassed and uncomfortable, I stopped asking. But books would miraculously appear in my room later about the topic I'd asked about. Kind of like it was a peer education and reading, you know, and kind of learning mom's not. Mom's so uncomfortable. I don't want to do that to her, you know, so it didn't rebot. And we got married really young. Neither one of us knew what we were doing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's always amazing in people's stories how common this is, that we just grew up in environments where these things weren't modeled well, and they were either completely secretive and hidden and shameful or a little bit like you described, Joni. There were things that were out in the open or that where we were exposed to content we probably shouldn't have been. But even the way that was handled became part of our feelings of shame and secrecy. And so, you know, we bring that into our marriages. You guys get married, and at what point in your relationship did the sexual brokenness kind of surface? When did it become apparent that this was an issue that you guys were going to have to deal with?

Well, that was pretty clear in my life and Vicki's as well. She caught me doing things I shouldn't have been doing. I resisted. And then we went to a marriage counselor, which kind of worked for a little while. And, you know, we stopped going. And then I see now, I believe that he actually made it worse than what it was. And he had better counseling in the beginning of that with been a lot further years of healing.

The point was at 20 years.

Yeah.

Wow.

He was acting out the whole time, but really good at covering it up. And I was knowing this something wasn't right. But I. I know now I have a word for it. Michelle Mays had a book she wrote. It's called Betrayal Blindness. You just. Your lending system doesn't want to see what's going on. Kind of just stay safe. So I. I just kind of didn't question too far, didn't look too close. 20 years. It was pretty obvious some things happened. Counselor we went to that Johnny's talking about was like, you know, you hear it's kind of a joke now. But they. What they tell the addict to stop it? Need your Bible, Want to stop it? Pray more.

Yeah.

And they tell the wife to be more sexually available. That's the kind of advice we got for six months. And.

Yeah.

So that we went on that for another 10 years.

Wow.

Things ramped up over those 10 years. But he got better at hiding it. But we had a lot of tragedy happen in those 10 years. A lot of people die. Our son in law died in a plane crash. And I went and got help with my daughter and um. John didn't.

Yeah. I. I handled it myself. And that turned out really poorly.

Yeah.

That's probably what escalated my addiction big time. Yeah. Involved other people.

So I mean, besides going and seeing that counselor, what were other things that he. I mean both of you, but specifically Johnny, with your addiction, what were some of the initial strategies to try to create that sobriety and then also try.

Harder and get better at lying. That's what all amounted to. Yeah. Promise her I'd never do this again. And it seemed that didn't last.

Yeah.

I certainly didn't involve other people.

Right.

Other people helping, thinking I'm the only one that struggles with this.

Yeah.

But isolation.

Yeah.

But Vicki, we also know that the betrayed partner can try to take control of the situation as well and try to bring health, bring sobriety, help their spouse. What was that like for you? What were some strategies you tried early on?

Well, at the 20 year mark, going to counseling, talking to the pastor. There was not any. There was not even. We didn't even know about CSAPs at the 20 year mark. And we've been married maybe 48 years actually this summer. So I just, you know, that was 28 years ago. So I was. I really didn't talk about it very much. I had a couple safe people. They didn't get it, you know, and, and there were things that were happening there. I didn't tell them even because I just didn't want to blow them out of the water. It was 10 years later that we found a CSAT. Things came to a head again that we actually started learning about getting into group, doing, you know, counseling. At the time, I didn't know about pure desire. That's kind of an interesting story about us and pure desire. But so I got into Ethanon celebrate recovery. Those are the things that started leading us towards actually healing.

Yeah, I think what you're describing is something we hear so often in stories of. We knew there was an issue. We went to the help that we knew was available, you know, a counselor. But the advice we got wasn't very helpful. And with a lack of awareness of any other resources, we just go back to kind of what we know to try harder and hope it gets better and gets fixed. And yet in that approach, there's not healing, there's just effort, which effort's good, but often doesn't lead to change. And I think you guys are echoing what so many people would say. Yeah, me too, me too. We've been there. And, and so as you guys began to pursue healing, you know, maybe at the 30 year mark, what were some of the hurdles that you had to face? What were some of, you know, maybe for you, Joni, knowing you probably had to get more open with this, with a group and face some of those things. What were there hurdles like that that you had to face even in recovery that you found challenging and just had to be overcome?

Well, we, I started my healing out of the shadows. And this sexual integrity counselor we had, he. He wouldn't even let me go home. From the first meeting that Vicki and I went to, he put me in a group immediately. I was just amazed at these seven guys that were talking about this stuff and I didn't realize that it was something that they wrote about in books. So it was pretty eye opening. And then, you know, I'm doing all this recovery work in the workbook and my counselor suggests that we. I go to SAA meetings. And the very first meeting I went to there, it's a bit challenging because it's co ed, see, and that's. That was okay. It's easier. A chance to practice what you're learning. But this girl, at the very first meeting I went to, she was getting her one year chip. I couldn't believe that was even possible. So encouraged, I Wanted that. So I started the process and I went to like three meetings a week, plus out of the shadows training too.

And your men's group.

And the men's group.

And celebrate recovery.

And celebrate recovery.

Yeah, right. Just throw it all at it, see what happens.

Yeah.

And we ran a business 60, 80 hours a week. Yeah.

Oh my goodness. I mean, I can imagine though, with something we've talked about, you know, Dr. Ted talks about this being like it has to be a top shelf priority. This has to be something that you put so much time to. But if you're running a business together and you're running 80 hours a week, like that's hard. I can imagine that was also a hurdle in pursuing it. Is that right?

Yeah, it was. But you know, I knew that I wanted this. Whether or not my wife was going to stay with me or not. I wanted to be healthy. I liked the idea of what possibility of being free. That's what I desired.

So there's kind of a part to that story. When we started seeing the CSAT, that really was the Christian CSAT, that was big help for us. 20 some years ago, he said that John needed to do a 90 day sexual fast. And it was really upsetting to John and I was kind of feeling relieved about it from women. So we started that fast and during the fast, as we were getting ready to end it, God just gave me a intuition. I just said, there's more you need to tell me. Because at that point I didn't know that there were other people involved. So he told me, but he still tried to minimize. Just blew me out of the water. I really couldn't believe it. What I was hearing. Counselor was fooled. He didn't realize. So I was leaving. I was, we. I stayed in the house because we had a daughter getting married in four months and I didn't want to hurt her wedding or you know, ruin anything for her. So they didn't know. And. But he was doing all those things he was saying he just told you about. And I was seeing change. I didn't think I wanted to stay anyway, but I was there. So I, I saw that, you know, I didn't just hear about it. I was seeing all the things he was doing. I was seeing change. At the end of the four months when my daughter got married, I'm like, do I want to leave yet? Because maybe I might like this new guy. I'm not sure if I, I'm not sure I can loving him again because he really. Yeah, you really blew our marriage out totally and so the, the part that some people have trouble with. But I think it's healthy for people to hear our 90 day sexual fast turned into a two year sexual fast. Because I said, I'm not getting back into a relationship sexually until I know I'm staying. And it took two years for us to really get it turned around to the point where we.

Two years, three months to be specific.

But who's counting?

So I mean, it sounds like the csat that was a huge part of your story of healing really beginning. But there's a moment and I think obviously it might be two years for you, Vicki, but for you, Johnny, as you were seeing the CSAT starting to get traction, a lot of us have kind of experienced that moment when it just like clicks into place. It's like, oh, okay, I understand why I was doing what I was doing. What was that moment like for you? And kind of describe the circumstances that led to that.

Just the understanding that I can heal and become whole again. I think this whole process, my addiction was something that life skills that I missed growing up. And I was, I was sick of myself. Really.

Yeah. Vicki, talk about that from your perspective. Like you started to see the traction he was making. When did you kind of. When did it first make sense? Like, oh, this is an addiction. This is something that has more to do with just his behavior. There's more going on here.

I think we were really blessed to have a counselor that was ahead of his time in a lot of the areas that we work on now, like, you know, betrayal, trauma. He didn't call it that, but we were working on it.

Yeah.

And then he worked on like a lot of Gottman communication stuff. I didn't know that's what it was, but now I do because I more educated about it, you know.

Yeah.

And then we actually moved into a sensate type therapy when we started putting the marriage back together. But I think my biggest aha moment, I'm at two years. I'm still hanging on to a lot of the hurt because I'm afraid if I'm going to like, I'm afraid if I let go of it, then he won't realize how bad he hurt me.

Yeah.

And I know I need to move forward. I was talking to God all the time. The counselor said, ask me one day, did I think contempt was a sin. This is after two years. And I'm like, well, yeah. He's like, well, I think you need to think about that. And I went home mad at him. And then I realized, you know, God really said to me, you know, I looked up what contempt meant. I mean, you think you're better than someone else, basically. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I've been going for two years trying to heal and trying to forgive and still feeling like this. You know, when I stopped looking at John's stuff and started looking at my own heart. And that now it takes a while. I mean, that's a process. It's not like you're just supposed to do that right away. That's when my healing started.

Yeah.

I think about in your story the central role that hope played. You know, when you do have, like you were sharing Joni, 20 years of struggling, and then some of it gets opened up, but nothing really changes. So now you're in 10 more years of kind of that turmoil, and there is a hopelessness, I think, that sets in. And we hear that very often from people that are coming into group or into counseling. It's just like I've kind of been told, all men struggle and they're always going to struggle. And it's, you know, some have even thought, well, it's the thorn in my flesh that God will never take away, and you can't, you can't really beat it, so just manage it until you die. And it's like that. That sounds so different than the gospel, right? That sounds so different than what Christ declared in his. His ministry on earth. And then the, the New Testament authors that just talk about freedom in Christ and, and yet when we're battling this issue and feel like it'll never change, that freedom feels almost like an illusion or an empty promise. And then we hear someone that says, man, I've gone. Like you said, it's been a year of sobriety. Like, is that even possible? And that little seed of hope, that little seed that there could be a better way, there could be something different in our lives and marriage, I think that's what starts people down that path and then can lead into a lot of lasting change. And you guys, you know, as you talked about here today, year 17, and, and you're able to look back at a pretty long road of healing that has now been sustained and that you've been growing in and been able to use your story to help other couples as you kind of reflect on this 17 year journey of healing and I mean, obviously much longer the marriage itself, but as you look at particularly the healing journey, what would you say are some of the key elements that you've now identified and when you share with other couples or encourage them. Like, what are those key elements you feel that led you to find freedom and recovery from sexual brokenness?

I think the biggest deal is connection. The first couple years you did the men's retreat at Mount Rainier in Portland, that was eye opening because you have all these guys come together and it's a little weird for at first, I think, man, we must be really messed up. But it didn't take very long to understand this is the way church should be. Oh, I, I did. I hated it for it to end, and I look forward to that every year. It's just being in the midst of people that have conquered this and working on it, and I love it.

Vicki, what about for you? I mean, healing from betrayal is just as important, I think.

Community, again, I agree with John, our counselor at the time. The CSAC had women's group and a men's group. I was the old lady of the group. I always felt kind of like I didn't belong there. I'm 50, and they're all in their 30s or 20s, you know, but that's still going on. And they betrayal beyond groups. You know, the old lady of the group usually, but, you know, just the openness, the. The acceptance. The acceptance in community breaks the shame. Yeah. And not just the addicts carry shame, you know, the, the. The partners also, you know, we think there's something broken about us or wrong with us. And so that community is just beautiful. It's like Christ reflecting in each other, to each other. And yeah, I agree with Johnny. And then when we did get involved in Pure Desire, like six years later, which is another kind of story. But, yeah, those retreats, they had women's retreats where Diane Roberts was doing a lot of the leading and the man's dad was doing it, and they were really amazing and healthy and so healing.

I do want to say, as someone who is in their 30s now, that seeing people who are older than I am and in different seasons of life is incredibly encouraging. When you watch them address patterns that might have been there for decades of their life. To me, it's not that we're all going to get, like, old and crotchety and we're going to get stuck in our ways. It's like, no, there's still change possible. So I just want to release any shame you may feel as being the older lady in group or the older guy in group, that there's no shame there. That's actually a beautiful thing.

Yeah, we've kind of gotten over that.

Okay, good, good.

Just making sure so Many groups, yeah, for sure. Okay. So this is a super personal and private area. I mean, we've talked about it so many times on the show that sexuality is probably the most, you know, intimate piece of us. But to, you know, get your own healing is one thing, but then it's another thing to start sharing it with other people and being honest and open about it in community. Talk to us about how you got to that point. When did it kind of click like, okay, we really got to start being open about our story. And how'd you find the courage to do that?

Did I start.

You can start Shocking.

We were looking for some way to walk alongside people, but we didn't have any tools except for our own healing. So we went into our then pastor and told him what was going on with us, and he was shocked and really didn't want to hear it. And so we left really discouraged. Then a gal. I would get phone calls randomly. The people that did know what we'd been through. Guys would call John, women would call me. You know, we could sympathize and empathize and kind of walk beside them, but we really didn't have any tools for helping them, so we didn't know about Pure Desire. So a woman called me who was about my age with kind of the same situation I had been in, and she's the one that said, hey, have you heard of Ted Robertson Pure Desire? I've been listening to some podcasts and watching him. And so then John and I sat down, started watching, and we're like, oh, my gosh, this is what we've been looking for. And so it was a God thing. We joined Rock and Grace's Ruddy's groups. Yeah, they were open both at the same time, which. How often does that happen? God in their groups went all the way through and came out. We've been going full steam ever since. So. Because we found. We found the way to join and.

Help, this issue really brought the Bible alive.

Yeah. We're trying to become the people we wished we had back when we were going through this.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yes.

So it sounds like when you found, like, Pure Desire and Pure Desire groups, you were already looking to walk alongside other couples. What. What prompted that for you guys? Was it just knowing how hard it had been and wanting to be there for others? Or was there seeing that brokenness in people's lives that you knew as it would come up? Or what. What maybe created that initial seed of just saying, we want to walk alongside others? Because I. I think for many people, There is an attitude of like, well, we just need to heal us. We need to get this marriage fixed. And then, and then we can go back to just doing, you know, normal life. But taking that step into man. We want to impact others. Where did that come from for you guys?

Well, it's an understanding that it's just not a one step done. It's able to carry that message to people that are hurting. And this is real, real hard. I mean, it's hard stuff. Yeah. And understanding that there's help out there and I can be part of that. God can use me. That's a wonderful thing that you can see, especially in men's group, that, well, the women's too, because you can see the moment that the lights come on and share that and you get to be a part of that.

I think we've been through 12 step. We've been through eight principles. We believe in the 12th step. We believe in the eight principle. I mean, once you get this, you don't keep it to yourself. You can't give it to someone else. And our big prayer, we have this really cool thing we like to say in our prayers. Make it count. Yeah. To his glory to make it count. And I don't know that everybody feels that driven, but we do. And God helped us. Retired guy, walked into our business, offered, made us an offer we couldn't refuse. And our retirement led us to just do in more groups. We have really grateful to pure desire for allowing us to be able to have ITAP do PSAP educations, to allowing us to be me to have appsat training. I'm not, I'm not a coach, I'm not a counselor, but I got so much more information to be a good guide.

Yeah.

And my groups are more richer because of it. So I don't know, we just feel driven.

Yeah.

Until we stop being driven, I guess we'll keep going.

Yeah. Vicki, I think you should say that you don't have the title or, you know, the formal role of coach or therapist or counselor, but you are absolutely coaching and counseling women and couples through your guys, your ministry and your story reflect a little bit on the impact this has had on relationships. I mean, maybe not only your marriage, but on your parenting, your kids, your family, friends. Like, how has this changed the way your guys relationships work?

Well, I can really see that in my grandkids. I mean, I raised my daughters and made so many mistakes, and now I get a second chance of playing that forward. What I've learned in discipline, I really don't Discipline at all. Murder. But that's okay. It's up to their parents to actually discipline and that I can spend the time and talk them through, and I get to do that.

So it has taken things a lot deeper. It has weeded out some friendships. Our families, unless they watch this podcast, our immediate families still don't know our journey. My dad passed away. My mom's really old. We did not have safe families to share this with. So we had families God gave us in our groups, close friends, mostly from church. And our. Our adult. Our children were adults when we went through this. So we had to set them down eventually, you know, and tell them what was going on, and we blew them out of the water. They had to get some. One of them especially had to get some counseling, too. But, you know, I think they have a really deep, rich relationship with their dad now because he's. He's made amends for so many things, and he's so open with them, and relationally, he's a different person. I always say, you know, I love the new guy. Don't like the old guy so much, but I love the new guy. And so do they.

Huh.

That's amazing. I mean, that's just like, what else could you hope for, you know, as your kids get older and your family grows, that those relationships deepen and get richer. That's awesome. You guys have mentioned it in a number of ways already, but do just talk, you know, for a minute or two about the ministry that God's given you through your healing now, being connected to pure desire, all these things like, what is. How do you see God using you right now in this area? And what kind of ministry has he given you?

Well, I'm still able to run a group. I'm a pretty good at facilitating. I'm not trying to give anybody advice, but understanding what worked for me and can still be connected. I've got. You know, when I first started this, I didn't want a phone and I got a flip phone. You kind of make fun of me, but that's okay. No, guys still call me and I still meet for coffee and explain my story. I get to give my testimony and pretty open about it.

The churches that are invested in this have a kingdom mentality. So I've had churches call, well and Johnny, too, and say, hey, we would like a group here. We don't have anybody to lead it. And so John, you know, went over to a different church. I've been in a couple different churches besides my own, leading women's groups. One that I'm in right now. I've been. I've done probably six groups there and there are probably four men's groups going there. And then our own church, home based church, you know, we had two women's groups, two men's group spelling. So we're busy. Our phone rings a lot, I think because we've been doing this so long. I am a church group advisor, but I think our names just kind of get thrown out there more. We do have contact with a lot of the counselors that we feel are helpful. We know quite a few now pastors, so they kind of know if they hear like, we actually recently just changed churches and we came into a church where the pastors had already knew us through a counseling center that, you know, they had been. It works through their church. And so it was a lot easier transition actually. But we're kind of known. We kind of laugh. They. We feel like we're known as like the, the sex people.

I think healing ministry is better.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's fair. It guys, no problem.

Go ask John or Vicki who to.

Go to or who to talk about that.

I. It's. I mean, it's not lost. It's profound how motivated and driven you guys are. Like, it's, it is crazy because you can be passionate about this ministry. You can lead groups, you can do that. But to go get PSAP and appsat certified and to know the counselors and clinicians in your area and to be leading groups at other churches, like, that's like all star level effort. And it, I mean, it's, it's incredible. It's. It's awesome to see that you guys didn't just get your own healing and call it square, but you wanted to do something with it. And it's clear that the make it count is absolutely a banner that you guys have for your marriage. It's. It's incredible to hear.

You know, it's like I keep thinking about that, you know, old story about the starfish on the beach, little girls throwing them back, and the lady's like, you can't save them. You know, she's like, well, I can save this one.

Yeah.

You know, I don't feel like we're doing any saving. You know, we're. We're joining God in the work that he's doing. But if it makes a difference to that one, you know, that's worth it.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was just going to echo the same thing that I think there are many people that when they have a story, they want to share it and want to help others. But I really think there's something to be said for God's ability to use us when we do get a little bit of training, when we get some educated, when we, when we're able to partner our story with some of that knowledge and a methodology and an understanding of why some things worked in our story and why other things didn't. I mean, that really equips us, I think, to be used even more. And so I hope that is an encouragement to listeners that feel like, you know, we get people in all stages of their journey. Some people might be listening to this and they're in week one. And just the idea of hope that man, here's a couple that after 30 years of marriage was ready to call it quits, and now they've had 17 good years. I mean, for that couple in week one, that hope is what they need. But there are other couples that listen that are, you know, week one plus a year or two years or three years, and they want to share their story. And I hope that as you hear Johnny and Vicki share, there's that thought of, you know, if we would lean into this, if we would go to a couple of trainings, if we would connect with pure desires conferences, if we would, you know, read some of those supplemental resources that might really bolster our ability to connect with other couples and use our story in a powerful way. And, you know, we'd love to be a part of that in their lives. And, and I'm just so thankful that with you guys, Jonny and Vicki, we've gotten to be a part of your story and what God was doing, you know, for almost a decade before you even found out about pure desire. So as, you know, as you think about couples listening and like I said, they're at all stages of their journey. Some are helpers, some are in the midst of their own story. What encouragement would you want to give to anyone listening as you reflect on your own story?

Your not alone. You get out of what you put into it. It's a, it's a journey of being honest and speaking the truth is hard. I mean, I thought for many years if I just was crafty enough that I could get out of any situation and understanding now, it's always going to come out. So it's. It's like taking baby steps. And then the big step is from now on, I'm gonna not be perfect. I don't want to present myself as being perfect because I've learned a lot and I've got A lot more to learn. But you cannot move forward unless you're taking the next step.

What I tell women when we start group, I mean, we're a Christian organization, we, we want marriages to flourish and be healthy. But it doesn't work that way if there's only one person that's trying to be healthy and the other one isn't. So I just say we're not the poster child for this. We're just one picture of what healthy can look like. And so for me, with women, because some women end up separated or not married anymore, they still, you can still move forward, find safety, be stable, find health, learn how to set boundaries, do all these wonderful things that don't just apply to a relationship with your partner, but life.

Yeah.

So I just see women flourish regardless of the trauma that they're coming out of with this program and the help that we were giving them now. So that's kind of mine. Yeah, yeah.

Just, you know, as I hear your guys story, what keeps coming to mind for me are the Apostle Paul's words where he says that the God of all comfort comforts us. So there's a promise there that God's God's desire is to give us his comfort, his peace, his joy. And I think part of healing and recovery is that of finding I'm not alone. There's hope and there's comfort there. But then he goes on to say he comforts us so that we can comfort others with the same comfort that we ourselves have been given. And in this area, that can be very messy and complicated and, you know, there's layers of it that maybe we haven't experienced. We feel like, well, you know, who am I to help someone else? Who am I to share my story? Who am I to approach my pastor or talk to my friend? And yet there is a real biblical truth there that says, who are you? Well, if you've received comfort in Christ, all you're being called to do is go and offer that same comfort to someone else and say, here's what I've. Here's what I've experienced. Here's what God has done in our relationship. Here's the hope he's given me. And you may not be the counselor. You may not be. You know, I love how you said it too, Vicki. Like I'm, we're not the one that heals, saves people, but we're a part of it. We're a part of someone else's story. And I, I think that's a message that I'm hearing today. And would just share with everyone to say we can all be a part of taking some of the comfort God has given us and offering that to someone else and what, you know, what they do with it, what God does with it at that point is really up to them and the Lord. But our role of offering that same comfort is so powerful and so beautiful to see how God uses it and awesome to hear because we get to hear him. Johnny and Vicki, the couples that have said, well, we got connected to the Greenfields and we were in their group or I was in Johnny's group and he really challenged me. And man, I looked at Johnny and said if he could do it and in his season of life and he's pouring into me a younger guy, then I believed I could do it too. And so we get to hear those stories and it's simply because you guys said we want to be faithful, to use the comfort God has given us and comfort others. And so thank you for that. And we're so appreciative and delighted to get to share your story with our audience today.

And don't stop being driven. Please don't stop. Like, just, it's doing amazing things. You guys are making a significant impact. And honestly, you guys are amazing. I knew very little of your story. Obviously, I know your name, but it's been great just to hear how the Lord has. What I'm seeing is those stepping stones, even starting back when you saw that counselor and then you were a part of, you know, saa and just incredible how God has shaped your story and is using it to help other people. So thanks for sharing it and thanks for being with us today. We really appreciate it.

Thanks for asking us. God bless both of you guys and we'll be seeing you soon, actually.

And if you're a fan of this content, please subscribe, share it with somebody, and write us a review. If you want more information on our groups, resources or counseling, just go to PureDesire.org and lastly, never stop being healthy.