403 - Helping Women Escape Exploitation

Foreign.

Listener. I am your host, Nick Stumbo, and you are listening to the Pure Desire podcast, your biblically based and clinically informed approach to breaking free from compulsive sexual behaviors and healing from betrayal trauma. Today, you are listening to episode 403. And here joining me as my co host for this series is Ashley Jamison. Ashley, welcome back to the podcast.

Happy to be here.

It's good to see you. Your background's looking nice. I feel like every time I see you now, there's something added to the background. Like the little plant today, I think is new.

Yeah, the eucalyptus. And, you know, it's therapeutic. And I had to switch my office corner, and so this is the same desk in a different corner. And so I'm still working with my lighting. Next time, the lighting should be really on point. So.

So there was a really funny perspective issue right there because as I'm looking at you, I assumed that plant was in the background and that it was much, much larger. And then she realized it's like, just by your shoulder and it's really small. You kind of threw me off there. So for those that want to know what we're talking about, you'll have to check us out on YouTube. But today we had a really powerful conversation. This is part three of three in our series that we've been calling the Other side of the Screen. And we're looking at the impact that the pornography industry has on in particular, and the exploitation of women. And so today we talked with a woman named Jasmine Marino who has founded a ministry that is helping rescue women from the sex trafficking industry. So tell us a little bit, Ashley, about the conversation that our listeners are about to hear.

Oh, well, their heartstrings are going to be pulled a little bit. And so Jasmine, she herself. Is that how you say she has her own story of being sex trafficked and. And finding freedom? And just the way that she talks about what God has done in her life and how she's continued to walk through doors and how it's expanded into this whole outreach, I think is a beautiful representation of believing what Christ says about you and using our freedom and our story to keep moving forward and sharing that with others and not just keeping our healing to ourselves, but paying it forward. Her story is an incredible highlight of that.

Yeah, I thought it was a powerful conversation. And, you know, again, want to say or encourage our listeners. I know many of you check this out because you're in recovery of your own. You're looking to overcome sexual addiction or compulsive use of pornography or all other kinds of behavior. And some of this is hard because it's like it's the outcome of those behaviors that we don't want to think about, we don't want to look at. But I would encourage you, it's so healing, I believe, to really recognize the full scope of what's happening in our world and to recognize the commonalities that are taking place with those that are in the sex trafficking industry, that it's at its root, it's many of the same motives and desires that are driving people that are the very things we talk about in recovery. So it's what I've loved about this series too is I think we sometimes want to treat these as like two separate things. There's, okay, there's sex addiction and porn addiction over here, and then there's this other realm of like sex trafficking. And actually, as to today's conversation shows, they are far more connected and overlapped than maybe we realize. And I think everyone is going to get a lot out of this episode that they can apply to their own recovery and hopefully some ideas of how they might get involved to make a difference in wherever they live in their community in this area of sex trafficking and exploitation. So a little bit more about Jasmine Marino. She is the survivor of sex trafficking and drug addiction. She is an effective keynote speaker, panel participant and facilitator for trainings, workshops and groups. She has spoken on panels at the U.S. commission on Civil Rights in New Hampshire and on panels for the United nations in New York. She's been featured on the 700 Club and many other online news sources. In addition, Jasmine consults with healthcare professionals, law enforcement personnel, educators, and nonprofit organizations. She advises on issues such as safe homes, program growth, curriculum development, survivor support, and peer mentorship. Jasmine is the founder and director of Jasmine Grace Outreach, which empowers women as they exit and recover from the commercial sex trade and addiction. Lastly, she is the author of a great book, the Diary of Jasmine Grace, Trafficked, Recovered, Redeemed. And we highly encourage our listeners to check out that book and we'll give you more information about that at the end of the show. But without any further ado, here is today's conversation with Jasmine Marino on helping women escape exploitation. Jasmine, welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast. We're so glad to have you on today.

I'm thrilled. Thanks for having me.

Yes. So first time guest on our podcast, tell our listeners just a little bit about yourself and why you are so passionate about helping women escape sex trafficking.

Yes. So I have Been out of the commercial sex trade and clean and sober for about 18 years. Walking with the Lord all that time. I found him once I exited the life of the commercial sex trade and actually had to find recovery first I had to get clean and sober. I had to put my life together before I could heal from the trauma of the commercial sex trades. And once that happened, the Lord just sent me on a mission to go find the women that are out there still on the street, still sick and suffering. And I started this small outreach ministry. Not to make it a big deal, I just felt this desire to help these women. And I filled these bags of toiletries, soap, shampoo, conditioner, toothpaste. I jump in my minivan, I have small kids at the time, and I go to the place where I knew I could find the women, jump out of the car, I'd give them these bags, I give them a hug, tell them I love them, and if there's a better way. And people thought I wanted to give me money and donate and make a big deal out of it. And then people started asking me to share my story. And I totally didn't want to do that at first. I didn't want to be telling strangers that, you know, I had been prostituted, I was drug addiction, that I had prior abortions. Like these things that the enemy keeps us in shame about, I didn't necessarily want to talk about. But I had a pastor who always encouraged me to be authentic and to press into authenticity and see what happens. And I did. And every time I did, even with gritted teeth, women would come up to me with tears streaming down their face saying they had the same story. Wow. And so I just kept sharing and so have been all over the country. I been to the United Nations a few times. I do a lot of work in the anti trafficking movement, helping changing laws and educate, raise awareness in hospital settings, law enforcement, et cetera. And then just a couple years ago, we were able to open up our own homes for women who are exiting the Camacho sex trade here in New Hampshire. And they can stay with us up to two years that they work on their healing and recovery. We are Christ centered, so everything revolves around him and what he's doing in and through us, but also want to help empower them, give them opportunities for education and economic freedom so they don't have to go back into those cycles. That's me kind of in a nutshell. You can hear the accent from New England, Massachusetts specifically. But I live in New Hampshire now.

Yes. I just hope we have several more questions where I can ask you something that then you talk about getting in your car. Because that's like my favorite east coast word. That sounds like some really amazing work. And you said the house is there in New Hampshire, Your recovery house is there in New Hampshire.

Yes. That's a really great God story. So for many years as we've been doing the outreach and walking alongside, women going into jails and halfway houses, ministering to them, walking alongside. We send them to safe houses across the country because there was a lack of them in New England. And just a couple years ago, there was an amazing couple that purchased a 17 bedroom Catholic retreat center. And when the nuns went and retired, they put on the market. And this couple purchased it with the hopes to partner with a ministry who would serve women and children. And they interviewed a whole bunch of ministries and then they chose me. And we were on Zoom. And I thought like confetti was going to fall. I thought the Publisher's Clearing House was going to jump in my front door with a big check, 300,000. Because, you know, I went from raising small amounts of money for me and my one staff to now hundreds of thousands of dollars to fund this house and the staff that's needed there. But anyway, cool story. They rent it to us very, very cheap. The goal is to rent it to us for a dollar a month and we pay the tax and utility. And it's 15 acres. It's amazing. It has 17 bedrooms. We would never house that many women and children because we don't have enough staff. But right now there's six women and a little three week baby. Three week old baby.

Yeah. Wow. So room to grow. That's exciting.

Yeah. I like right away, just because I know the backstory and everything, as soon as you open your mouth, I'm like, oh gosh. I'm like, people are like, why is she crying already? She hasn't even said anything. But I just, I just get so excited hearing like that you just kept walking through those doors. And that's something that we really emphasize at pure desire is just tell your story, share your story. Like there's so much power in just being able to tell another person that I've been there. I get it. And you're not alone. And that's exactly what you did and kept walking through doors. And God is like, bigger, bigger, more and more. And I just get so excited about that. So as you know, one of our primary bread and butter resources is helping, you know, men and women get through recovery or betrayal, trauma and pornography is a big thing that brings to us. So in your opinion and experience, you see a connection between pornography that feeds into sex trafficking.

I talk about this all the time. In fact, I was just at an event last night sharing my story and talking about how porn really is the gateway drug into the commercial sex trade. You know, a lot of us in the anti trafficking movement recognize that. Remember back in the day to find porn you had to like go dig under your brother's bed or under the closet somewhere hidden, or even when you went into a store to purchase the magazines, I think there was like a black sheet, like a, like a trash bag hanging over the COVID And now today it's just so obvious and so open. And we give kids these tablets and these phones so early without any protections. And I have actually spoken to a sex therapist whose youngest client is six. And this poor little girl has been exposed to porn by the time since she was 2. And we also know today how porn is just infused with violence and it's completely dehumanizing. And so many women in the commercial sex trade, whether that's porn, stripping, high price, escorting only fans, webcam, whatever it is, prostitution, street prostitution, the majority of those women there don't really choose this life, but it's all based on our vulnerabilities and these felt needs that we have. And unfortunately, sex trade is sold as women's empowerment. And that we're going to be able to make all this money, we're going to be able to buy a house and put ourselves into college. And unfortunately none of that happens. And I always remind people that whether we're on stage, in person or on the screen and we're smiling, acting like we like it, it's not true. There is no way we let our head, lay our head on the pillow at night and feel good about ourselves. Like, because God just didn't design us to do this. All day changes. And at the core of it is identity disturbance. You know, whether you're in porn or whether you're again engaging in person, if you think about it, to be involved in commercial sex trade, your name gets changed, right? So automatically you have this different stage name, you have to be this different person. And if you have to be like that for every single buyer, every single time you're in different kind of porn, there's absolutely no way that that is comforting and whole and makes you feel good. That's not what God designed us to do. So it's like just the gateway drug. And so many women are abused and trapped through that system.

I remember reading an article a couple years ago about the porn industry, and one of the producers said, you know, that used to have to work really hard to train new women how to behave in porn. And they said, now they're noticing that everyone who comes in, they called them porn ready. That the women already know how to act because they've been groomed and shaped by a very pornified culture or by pornography itself. And as you pointed out, pornography has increasingly become violent and risky and dangerous, which lends itself into the very things that are happening in sex trafficking and unfortunately have really become normalized in our culture. That's one of the things we talk about too, at our events. We'll say that the porn paradox is that never before has pornography been more popular. More people than ever in history that we know of are consuming pornography, but at the same time, never has it been more violent and degrading towards women. And that paradox of why, in a society that's trying to say we support women and we value women, we're trying to lift them up, are we permitting such a terrible industry that does the exact opposite? And then beyond that, like you said, is just the gateway to much, much worse things that traps these women sometimes for life. And so I think it's important that we tell those stories and that we recognize it's not harmless, it's not victimless, that this really matters. And that's, you know, really the goal of having you on in this little series that we're doing is for all of us to kind of face that reality and be willing to say, we can't put up with this anymore.

Exactly. I completely agree. Just so, so crazy about like even how over sexualized our culture is. Even when I've spoken at events and kids in middle school, I've asked them, you know, does anyone who have an only fans, if you guys aren't familiar with only fans is right. It's like you can thank Instagram for that, right? So Instagram came along first. Young girls, they all want followers. They all want this attention. They're posting half naked or provocative pictures on Instagram and then only fans come along and says, hey, post it on our website and we'll get you a subscription base and you can money. So this seems enticing and good and, oh, it's just pitches. It's just webcams now. The men, yes, the men have direct access to you and they're messaging you, they're asking you for different kind of pitches. They know where your location is. So they want to meet up and it's just a slow, slippery slope. And, and we even say, wow, you don't even need a pimp these days. Like the Internet. The Internet's exploiting you and the bad guy is in your pocket. When you think about when you hand a device over to a young kid, obviously you need to have those protections on it because it's just so normalized. You're right.

Crazy. And like you're saying, I mean, it is so unbelievable that, that anybody can just quickly be pursued by somebody who's putting on a front to be somebody else. I mean, it's just not the same game as it was back when we were young. Like the social media wasn't even a thing. I mean, to be able to just hide behind an identity and lure and groom and it's just easy because everybody's behind spring screens. So then you're emotionally removed from that. And it's a little bit frightening, especially as a mom, I mean, as a mom of kids. It is frightening.

Yeah. What a statement. The Internet is the pimp. Think about that for a little bit. So you already talked about the recovery house just a little bit, but talk us through a little bit more. Just your process of how does Jasmine Grace outreach help women that are coming out of sex trafficking and how do you help them begin a recovery journey?

Yeah. So a lot of our women do have substance use issues. Right. So that's the main thing. First things first, you have to be clean and sober and have some time in order to undo the trauma. Right. Unfold. And so for a long time we've done these groups in these halfway houses, these substance use treatment centers to meet women where they're at and help them even recognize if they're surviving. Right. Because like we said, it's been so normalized and they think it's their boyfriend, but meanwhile it's this guy that you're using drugs with and he's putting her out on the street or posting her ads online, making her prostitute or do dates. The language is even normalized too. They call it dates, they call it johns, they don't call it sex. Buy isn't really what it is. And so she's going out there and she's working and she's, well, you know, working and she's making this money and then he's controlling the drugs. And so these women a lot of times too are also coming from high age sports backgrounds and high trauma from adverse childhood experience. Right. And so they're ACE12, they're already 8 or 9, 10. A lot of women who get involved in the commercial sex trade are sexually abused as children, right? So that dial's already been turned for me. My ACE4 was only a 4, but it was just lower, right. Because I didn't experience sexual abuse as a kid, but I had a lot of dysfunction when my mom struggled with civilian illness. But she wasn't able to provide that fear and love and nurture that we all need as humans. And I went out and unfortunately looked for it in all the wrong places. Right. And when I got involved, my, my, my trafficker, he groomed me in that sense of, like, he wanted to be my boyfriend, got me to love, trust him. The biggest thing with these traffickers is that whether it's, you know, again, boyfriend, exploiter, however you want to name it, the Internet, they're always promising freedom, empowerment. And the thing is, is that the commercial sex trade does give you a false sense of power, false sense of security, and they all just want to make you feel like you chose it. So if you chose it, then it's your fault and you still won't. So all that to say going into these treatment centers to help women unravel and do some of that thinking, help them think their whole stories. How many women I've worked with in early recovery and they realized their mother was their first exploiter. Wow. Because the mother had a drug addiction or she was poor. Right. And she traded the daughter for the drugs or the money. How many women I work with today whose fathers are still trafficking there? This one girl, she was trafficked since she was 10. She's now in her 30s. Her father still has control over her. She goes to work as a teacher during her day. She has a young son that goes to that school. And just to give her that sense of harm and control, he shows up at the events and he stands in the audience. Right. He was made to do criminal things. He's exposed with the things that she's been trained and groomed or manipulated. Almost like being in health. Right. It's mental and emotional bondage.

Yeah.

And so just really helping women and men. Right. But we work with women to undo that damage. And walk alongside can take a long time, but you have to get off the drugs, have some clean and sober times, start to do so. That was. That is what we do really, is walk alongside women as they journey through that. And now that we can have them in the home, we have an even longer time to do that with them. And that's why I had contacted you guys at Pure Desire. Because I wanted to use some of your amazing resources, really, to help women heal in such a deep, deep, holistic way. Because sexual trauma isn't something that people, like, sign up for and are excited to do or like, talk about all the time. And I really want it to be intentional to make sure we.

I think what you said there, Jasmine, is so important because there is in our society, unfortunately, this false narrative that suggests, oh, women in the sex industry are just doing sex work. And it's, as you mentioned, it's empowering. And they chose that. And I think the story you told really helps us see that. Even if they chose it, was that really a choice? Or was it the byproduct of manipulation and control and abuse and so often other people essentially grooming them and setting them up in a way that they had no other choice but to make that choice? And so I think the more we're aware of that, we see that this is not something a person is willingly entering into. Even if they say they are. They may be saying that, you know, we interviewed someone else that said we were interviewing a former adult film star. And she said, well, of course I would say I loved this life because that was all part of the act. You know, no one wanted to pay you or, you know, give good money if they felt like you were doing it unwillingly. So of course you would act like that. That's exactly what you wanted. And just to be aware of that, like, this isn't what people want. And even if it's said, oh, they made the choice, that choice was usually forced or coerced very early. And really their power to choose was taken away from them.

Yeah, I mean, it's so admirable just how you are just diving in and now you have these years with them and trying to get them work at their core. And obviously you've been there. And so you're able to speak from a place of empathy and care and not shame. And so you kind of alluded to it. Drugs is a huge one when it comes to supporting survivors of sex trafficking. What are some of the other challenges that you face and how does your organization specifically work to try to overcome those challenges?

Yeah, a lot of mental health issues. Right. Years of trauma create all types of anxiety, depression, and a lot of times, too, because they been out there in these systems. They're on a boatload of messages right now. I'm not saying that medications aren't good for a time, mental health. Absolutely. But when you're like, doctor, shop, and you're out there and you're trying to fix the feeling of feeling. You can put on all types of meds and then you try to come into recovery. And I'm going to say, hey, you can't heal what you can't feel. Let's get off with these meds that you don't necessarily need. So we can actually get to the heart of things and have the Lord really meet you there and really process that. And so that's one of the challenges. Also women have children times they get involved in the foster care system. I'm trying to get those kids back. Very, very complicated, long costing. And the system looks at them like junkie prostitutes, excuse my language. They stop looking at like women of integrity and dignities trying to get their kids back. They have criminal records, felony tracks. How many women take the rap for their traffickers time after time and do lots of jail time because they don't tell on the traffic. They do that time. Now they're trying to rebuild their lives. They have all types of again, substance use, criminal records, gaps from job history. How do they go and fill out an application to get a job? They've been off the radar for years. So putting all those pieces back takes a lot of time. It can be very challenging. And again, most of these women are coming to families who don't have the good support. They don't have good, safe, supportive people in their lives. So they come to us and that's it. We're their only family. They're only safe people. And then you have like women like me with my family, what's decent, you know, like good, okay people. And I had to learn how to put boundaries in. So that was another thing. But it can happen to anybody. That's another. Trafficking happens to anybody. Does it matter? Race, age, economic background, gender. It's happening all day, everything. And it's hidden in place.

Yeah, I think the multi layers of recovery and that's part of what we deal with I think as a ministry and maybe almost in particular, the church can struggle with sometimes simplistic answers, like with pornography, like, well, just don't do that, just stop looking at it. And we ignore that. There might be a 20 year history of using that to cope with pain. All the systems that are functioning in the brain and the power of the new neurochemicals that are being released. And it takes a lot more than just that simplified answer. And I think for us to have that same mindset when it comes to helping people who are escaping from whether it's the adult Film industry or being sex trafficked or whatever lifestyle they've been in, There are a whole host of factors they're working through. And to just think, well, we just need to get them out of that and give them a different job. Like, well, yeah, but they may not be capable of getting a different job because of all these factors like drug addiction and they have no resume and, you know, what are their skill levels? So if we can think more deeply about recovery, then I think it helps us be willing to engage at the level we need and support organizations like yours that are willing to do that deeper work and not just say, well, just get them to stop doing that and they'll be fine.

And what I wanted to say too is about the demand side. Like, okay, we talked about porn and how that fuels the fire, but like, no condemnation or shame to any guy who's ever been engaged with porn, stripping, you know, experience that paid a prostitute for sex, like, none of that. Because sexual addiction is huge within the church too. Right. I know you guys talk about that. That's something that needs healing and we really need men and people to talk about that and have more briefs for these men that are struggling in the church with sexual addiction.

Yeah. And the amount of work that you have to do, I mean, I hope that even just this podcast and everything you're out there doing gets more awareness over, you know, the spotlight on your ministry or your organization. Because I mean, I was like thinking, hey, you need to help retrain on how to have a healthy diet, detoxing off of drugs, detoxing off of and balancing medications. So now we need like a psychiatrist and. Right. Is that the one that can prescribe? I'm not sure. And you need a counselor and you need somebody to help train, like, teach them how to be a good parent. I mean, that there's like all these facets when your life and your emotional state gets stunted at whatever time you start using drugs and just rehab from all facets. It's a lot of work that you're doing with those women.

Yeah, so we've touched on this a little bit, but I want to do a deeper dive into it. Jasmine, because you're working with women that usually are needing to do work on both sides of recovery. On the one hand, they've got their own addiction issues, whether to drugs or sex or the acting out behaviors that because of how their brain has been shaped. But on the other hand, they've got tons and tons of trauma and being exploited and abused. So they're both working on what's been done to them, but also unraveling the choices that they've made. So how do you help someone through that unique circumstance?

Oh, it's messy. This work is very messy. And it's very like, everyone makes fun of me because I use that word. It's like we just meet them where they're at, right? And we get to walk alongside and it's through that compassionate lens of trauma informed care. And they're in charge of their recovery process, right? They come into the home and it's kind of they go through like this fourth phase or these milestones, right? Let's just get our deaths of the row. A lot of these women come in with no IDs, no health insurance. You can't find their birth certificates, Social Security cards. All these basic things have to be met. And so we just work on that. We let them come in for the first 30 days and kind of like do this stabilization period where it's like a blackout, where they don't talk to anybody on the outside. They kind of just rest. And when I say that, I don't mean you take naps all day. If you need a nap, okay. But it's just letting the body come down and just stop because you've been out there hustling and running for years and it's just so much. You just have to take a breath and relax and learn the rhythm of regular life. And it can be very boring too, right? In our house specifically is out in the middle of a sticks, which is funny. In New Hampshire we always say, like, the girls are on their way and they're like, where are you guys taking me? They get a little nervous.

Is this a real place? What is this?

Yes, and it's just in the sticks and it's Ice Alpha. And so just to come and to relax and to like start moving your body slowly and getting your stuff in the ducks in a row, like I said. And then we start like safety, self care, boundaries, coping skills. Like we kind of build on that. We give them tools for the toolbox that they're going to need later, you know, start to eat regular, start to move a little bit, work out, here's a regular eating schedule, start to clean your room, do your laundry, like all these basic things. And then as it goes on, it gets deeper and deeper and deeper. We use a few resources that are geared specifically towards survivors of exploitation to really have those genuine conversations. We use my book, which is pretty cool. I managed to write a book somewhere in here which is really Neat because it was all based on my old journal entries while I was being trafficked and through active addiction, I managed to keep the journal. And then I was able to turn that into a book many years later and then put present day reflections to show who I am today and how I recover and what God has done through. Pretty powerful. So we do use basic survivor curriculum for women, but we also obviously are using the Bible and we're using other resources and we haven't yet been able to start authentically you, but that is on our list. And we're waiting for the women just to get a little bit further along in their. Their foundation built so they can unpack that. Also abortion. Many of the women come in, you know, all types of trauma from abortions. So we have certain Bible studies to talk about that, but we're not going to talk about that at the first jump. You know, in the first two months, we're going to build it up.

That is so good. I'm like just feeling all of the things, especially the fact that you were able to. I mean, what I thought of when you said, oh, I was keeping a journal even actively in my addiction, and I'm like, okay, that's his God was like, pause. I need you to write this down. I have a plan for this. You're going to help so many people through this. And it just gives me goosebumps to your story. It's so good and what you're doing for the women. And I know it seems like this is kind of an off question, but just watching the video on your website about your crew, I mean, it's so cool to see that you have several women on your staff. I don't know if all of them are, but they, they have the history. So you, they just have this, you have this whole team of. We've been there and we're going to be here for you.

Yeah. When. I appreciate what you said about meeting them where they're at, because sometimes in a, when we see something in an amplified form, we're able to, to take it into our story. And I think for a lot of our listeners, hopefully for a lot of them, they weren't sex trafficked, but they can see I'm in a situation where I have both been traumatized or exploited or abused and however that happened, and I have issues of my own to work on and sometimes the question is like, well, where do I start and do I do it all at once? And I think that advice of just where are you at? What do you need Right now, what is your most basic need? Because sometimes it is the trauma from a spouse. It is the trauma of abuse. And it's like there is just such a need for safety and to call, as you said, like, calm the body. Like, that's where you got to start. But maybe other people come and other addictive issues that have developed sometimes because of the trauma need to get under control so that you can do the trauma work. And every story is different, and everyone's a little different. But I. I think if we have that heart to just say, where are you at? Where should we start? And let's start there, and let's. Let's take a positive step. Let's get some momentum going. And maybe we're not doing that other part right now, but at the right time, we'll get there. And that might be an encouragement to someone listening today.

We do love to be shovel fed, especially addicts. Like, we want it all or nothing. Hurry up. Let's go. I got things to do. And that's not how God works. Right. It is not a sprint. It's a marathon. Right? And he does spoon feed us, and he gives us what we need, and he will put the right people in your life at the right time. And I was in Christian counseling for seven years. Like, I. I just kept showing and going, going. And finally she's like, hi, I think you. You're done. And I was like, wait, I don't need counseling for the rest of my life. She's like, no, Jazz, you kind of come in and you just report now. Like, you know, you're not asking. Like, in the beginning, I needed her to tell me how to write a sentence. Like, I. I didn't even know how to communicate with regular people. Never mind. My husband and I always joke around, and I say, like, if you want all your trauma to get out, just get married. That will just pull it right out of here real quick. Then sign yourself on therapy, because you're gonna need one.

It's true. Yeah. One of our. One of our team members says, marriage doesn't fix things. It just reveals more of what it finds. So, obviously, if you go into the marriage with stuff you haven't dealt with, it's gonna pull it out. So I would say the same about children. They pull that out of me too. So, okay. Mentors and coaching. So what role do mentoring and coaching play in your healing process to help survivors? And how do you ensure that these relationships with the women are impactful?

Yes. We just. Again, meeting them where they're at Figuring out what they need and helping serve that. So we fill in the gap. And the amazing thing about our ministry is that we answer the phone at 5 o'. Clock. Anytime the women calls, he can answer. We do. And we fill in the gaps by sending them. Like years ago, even today, if someone calls and our home isn't the right fit for them, we're not just going to leave them there, right? We're going to call the different resources that we have and fill out applications with them. Maybe we'll pay for the bus ride or the ASEA and get them across the country to wherever they got to go. So just really filling in the needs and asking them what they want to do, where they see themselves going. And then, of course, you know, chiming in here and there and saying, wait a second, can we think about this a little bit different? Or what about that? Have you thought about this? And just really being a friend and someone with compassion that doesn't judge and sharing, again, our own stories. Not every single woman on my team is a survivor, but they all have recovery from substance use or even sexual addiction. So we're again coming very transparent to the table saying, hey, this is who we are. This is what the Lord's done in our lives. And we just want to meet you and walk alongside and how that works.

We've seen that over and over. The power of just saying that, this is my story. This is what the Lord has done in my life. How can I help you? Rather than, well, I'm the expert. I have all the answers. Let me teach you how to do it. And I think for people in those situations, that can often just increase guilt and shame. It's like, well, yeah, if I could do it like you did, I wouldn't be in the mess I'm in. But when we hear someone say, I've walked some of this road. And maybe, you know, we're not trying to say our stories are identical or I'm just like you, but say I can relate because I have a story and I'm in process too. Listen to what God's done in my life. And we try to encourage people all the time to say, you have a story. If you've recovered from something, if you've walked this road, then it is your vulnerability, it's your transparency that will create that momentum for them. It's not your expertise or your perfection. And the more that we can do that as mentors and coaches to just say, here's what God has done in my life, it's amazing how the power of our story can be what someone else really needs to get going in their story.

Right. And something else made me think of is that we can't rescue anybody. And that could be real.

That's right.

When you're walking alongside somebody and they keep, quote, messing up or, you know, doing something that they don't want to be doing, it's real easy to get frustrated, to have discouragement. But just put, you know, yourself, put yourself and think about where you were and how imperfect you were in your journey and realize that you can't rescue that. That's God's job. Right. And all we can do is be safe, stable, sober, supportive, and help people walk alongside in that way. And they're in their own process.

I know Nick liked that. Safe, stable, supportive.

Just pull out all those S's, alliteration. That's perfect.

Well, and, and if it's, if it's similar to, you know, it, it is similar to the folks that sometimes most the time, you are the first person that allows them, your crew is the first. Are the first people that allows them to show up exactly how they are and they're still left now. They're showing up fully known to the team there and they're still loved. And it's like, wait, I've never experienced this before. I've always either been punished for who I am or told that it's not okay or, or groomed to be somebody different. And it's really freeing, I'm sure, for them to show up like that and, and be like, this is different.

So, Jasmine, you said we can't rescue anyone. It's not our job, but we can provide help. And that's important to keep in mind because I'm sure this is at times a very messy process that people don't just immediately, you know, break free and stay clean and sober forever. So in your experience, what are the most significant obstacles that survivors face when they're trying to break free from this cycle of addiction and exploitation? And how do you at Jasmine Grace Outreach help them overcome these significant barriers?

That's a great question. I'm thinking about this young girl that I'm currently working with. Been working with her, actually. I was her mentor for. I worked at a nonprofit that was secular many years ago when I sat in the anti trafficking moment. She was about 15 or 16 and she was high risk then. And so I was her mentor and I loved her, walked alongside her. She aged out and I didn't have that agency anymore. Time would go on. She's now probably in her 20s. And the biggest struggle she's facing is breaking the trauma bonds with her trust, because there is such a bond there. And she loves him, he loves her. Like, they're in this together. They've been using drugs, they've been on the streets, they've been homeless. They've had their high highs, their low lows, you know, but example, she can't break free from him. And she's constantly in and out of jail, always in and out of jail. When she has that jail time is. That's when she calls me, because she has that clarity of mind, Right. And she starts to say things like, I don't want to be with him anymore. I'm starting to recognize those cycles of exploitation and domestic violence and abuse. And then she'll tell me, her going back to Only Fans while she's in jail. He's still posting her pictures and videos on Only Fans making an income while she's in prison.

Yeah. Wow.

So that loophole there, right, of exploitation through Only fans again, and you have these traffickers who can still make money and benefit off you when you're not even present. Right. But this is the biggest thing for her is breaking free from those trauma bonds and recognizing that he is, in fact, dangerous. She is worth more. So she doesn't see her worth. She just feels like no good again, junkie that's been prostitute. And this is all she deserves. So slowly but surely, over the years that she's been incarcerated, in and out of treatment, sobriety, she's getting stronger, and she's calling me, and she wants to come into the home, but she's on certain medications that we don't take. Unfortunately, again, you can't hear what you can't feel. And so I'm trying to encourage her to get down, you know, drop down that medication so she can come in. So she goes working on. That's a big stomach.

Yeah, that's. And that's a. Like, you're in it for the long haul. And you. I'm sure you have to balance. Okay. She's back offering the support kind of. I mean, sometimes I call it broken record. Like, okay, you know, you need to do this. And then when you do this, like, I'll be here. I'm here for you, but you got to do this first. And then being able to separate a little bit and have, you know, so that you don't get that compassion fatigue or, you know, chasing after, I'm sure that is just. Just something that you have to be aware of. And we do too. At pure desire of, okay, when you're ready, I'll be here for you. When you're ready, I'll be here for you. But it's. It. It's a process. And, and sometimes, like you're saying, they have. They have to want it for themselves. And. And unfortunately, sometimes there's not an easy answer. But being able to just stick in there and continue to give them the encouragement that they need sounds like a very special calling to be able to do that, honestly.

Yeah. And what I've learned is I can't work harder for their recovery than that.

Right.

I've done that a lot.

We talk a lot about it. At pure desire that any behavior that we get trapped in that is destructive or that we don't like the reason, part of the reason we've gotten trapped in it is because to some degree it works for us. And that's what you're sharing about. You know, this young gal story. There was something about that relationship. There's something about the ways of feeling loved or needed or wanted or even just the bonding with that person, that even if in another regard they can see that it's incredibly unhealthy, it's very destructive. It's harming them, it's leading them literally down a path of destruction. There's another side going. Yeah, but it's what feels comfortable or what works for me. And I. So I'm just amazed at how common our struggle is as human beings, that whether we've been sex trafficked or gotten caught up in pornography or we're the survivor of trauma and abuse, there's all these kind of multi, multifaceted layers that on the one hand, it did something for us. And even though we see that it's unhealthy, we have to start unraveling. How do I find other places of finding that attachment or that security or that sense of belonging? Because even in a very unhealthy way, the drugs or the sex or the porn or whatever it was was doing that for me. And I'm going to have to learn new patterns and not shaming myself along the way that I have those attachments. Because that's how our brain, you know, God designed our brain to work that way. But unfortunately, sin or Satan or these destructive behaviors have hijacked that system. And if we can see that and go, oh, this isn't because I'm a bad person. This is because I'm a human being. And as a human being, I'm looking to be loved or valued or seen and that's part of what got me caught up in this. Then I think we have the tools and some empowerment to go. I can learn different ways, healthier ways of getting those things in other places.

Yes. What a process it is. That God sized hole. That's what we say in recovery. We all have this God sized hole in our heart and he can fill it. And once we recognize that, we can start to find our value and identity from him in human world.

Yeah. Okay. So moving to a success story. Can you tell us about somebody who successfully transitioned out of exploitation addiction and how Jasmine Grace Outreach was able to support them through that?

Yeah, this is actually great. One of my favorites is telling a story so many years ago when I first started the recovery groups in the substance use treatment center. I use a book called Seeking Safety. I don't know if anyone's familiar, but it's a secular book. It's really great. Again, it talks about coping skills, boundaries, self care. We talk about prostitution, exploitation, educate them. And so I was in this halfway house and I was doing the group and it was a young girl there just knew something about. I don't know, I don't know if you've ever looked at someone and just tells they are destined for great things. And this was this girl and she got a bag of hope and she's in my group and she was smart and she was good and she was engaged and she went through the group and then we kept in contact with her. And when she graduated, she was there maybe six or so months. She started to volunteer for the ministry. She just knew she liked us. Us, right. She didn't know. She'd call my, my coworker the Jesus lady. We're always innocent to her telling her and she's like, you know what, that's good for you. But I'm all set with the Jesus thing. She was all into science and whatever, just wasn't into the Christian stuff. So we just loved her anyway. We always inviting her to church, always inviting her to a churchy lady things, you know, trying to get her to come along. She'd come sometimes she was kind about it. But anytime she struggles, anytime she really needed someone to call, it was one of us. She knew she could trust us. Right. And time would go on like five or seven years. We've planted all those seeds. And so that's what's so important as believers, that we are not in charge of anyone's salvation. Right. But if we can just love people, well, be non judgmental so you can support it. And plant those seeds along the way. We don't know what God's going to do. But one day we finally saw the fruit. Initial flight. She was working at some company and she was in the alleyway and some dude comes out of nowhere and prays with her and she accepts price in the alley.

Wow.

Like out of nowhere. She was really struggling. I guess she had been suicidal and she was really depressed and struggled with all these things. Here she is five or seven years in recovery, right? She's got all the gifts of recovery back. You know, she's got a job, she's got a house, she's got a cash other than things. And she's still depressed and she suic. Still suicides. And she meets the dude in a random alleyway and she accepts price. She calls us. She like, all of a sudden the green, the trees were greener, the sky was more blue, right? Like all his things were like. She just. Her eyes had been open and she accepted the Lord. So of course we're thrilled. A little bit more time goes by, she gets married to some other guy who had been in recovery and said, accepts Christ and he's on fire for the Lord. We go to their wedding. Oh my gosh, tears everywhere. We're so thrilled with these two people that found the Lord, love him, love each other. She gets pregnant, she has a baby. Like she is like a shining example right then for all these years now, her sister has been out on the street, same thing, being exploited, using drugs. And we've been praying for her, for her sister to come into recovery constantly to come into relationship with the Lord. Don't you know? Just about six months ago, the sister finally calls and says she's ready to get off the streets. And so she, Anita, my co worker, needs to give her a bag of hope, brings her to her local detox center. She gets into treatment, and she is now a current resident at our home and living. It's just like.

Such a good. And when the story involves somebody like calling on God to be their savior, that is like the ultimate icing on the cake. I mean, was he an angel? Did he just like pop up, like out of the alley? I'm like, random guy in the alley. What a good story. So good.

It's also, I think, a reflection of how recovery, you know, we tend to think of it as an individual thing. And it is. There's individual steps we have to take. But it always impacts a family, it always impacts others. It always has ripple effects. And so I think that's the exciting Thing of the work you're doing and the sorts of things we get to be involved in at Pure Desire is we get to watch in a positive way those ripple effects, because we definitely see the negative ripple effects when a family is torn apart or destroyed or, you know, a career ends over poor choices. Like, we all kind of hear about that in our culture, but we don't hear enough of the ripple effects of, of the way that that changed a family's trajectory or it healed a sister because she was able to see, oh, this happened for my sister, maybe it can happen for me. And I think the more we're able to tell those stories and it reminds all of us my recovery matters because it's going to have a ripple effect in someone's life. My family, my kids, my friends. And when we see that, it actually creates more motivation, it creates more focus to do the hard work we need to do, because then we know it's not just for us. And research shows this. Like, when we know that it helps other people as well, we're actually more motivated to do the work than when it's just for us. And so I think that's so encouraging to keep stories like that in front of us.

It kind of reminds me when we were doing our PSAP training. I think it was Marnie Furie who talked about, like, your role in the family and, and the mobile, like the baby mobile. And when you hit one, like, the whole thing spins. And I know we see that if you are intentional about your recovery or your healing process and you, you stay, stick with it for the long haul, it can't not impact your family, your friends, your co workers. I mean, it's just, it's really cool to watch when it happens in a positive way like that. Now the sister and then their children, and they get to stop those generational curses in their family right now, which is so cool.

Yes. I'd even say the sister who's with us, has she. This is what, like, really got her into recovery, was she had a baby. And she had a baby. She left him at the hospital in that sense of like, I gotta go get clean. And so. So he's in the foster care system currently, but she's working so hard to get him back. And so reunification is right around the corner and we just can't wait. So she gets to have that baby with her at the home. You talk about, like, just that. Yeah, exactly. Generational stuff to see that faithfulness of the more autistic stuff.

So, Jasmine, as we wrap up our Conversation today. Tell us a little bit about how your organization works to raise awareness about the connections between addiction, pornography, trauma and sex trafficking in your community and give ways that others might, you know, because not everyone lives in New Hampshire. And if they do, I hope they're listening and will check out your organization. But many of us live in other places around the country and the world and are maybe thinking, man, what, what? I, I love this conversation. I'd like to get involved. What could I do? So tell us a little bit about what you guys, what you all are doing and then maybe give some ideas of what listeners might do in their own community to get involved in some of these areas.

Yeah, that's great. So I love sharing my story and doing a lot of public speaking, whether it's at churches or organizations, businesses, high schools, even down to middle school. Lots of awareness there. And I always share my story just in a way that connects red flags, what to look for, how to help people recover information about what trafficking is to a real story out of my survivor's perspective. And so I love doing that. I love sharing. There are some films out there that are written really well, especially that are true documentaries about survivors. I think that's a great idea to show a film, have a discussion about it, have a panel discussion, if you could. Reads books that are written by survivors. There are awesome books out there that are written by a lot of survivors in the anti trafficking movement. There are survivors all over the country doing this amazing work, really just educating, talking about it, raising awareness. Following anti trafficking organizations on social media is a really good way so you can share all the information and educating your kids and young people in your life. There's a lot of great resources even for out there. There's a survivor in California, her name is Rachel Thomas, and she's written a great curriculum called the Cool Aunt series. So she's like the cool aunt. And she does this whole thing, it's online and it's like education and then with a little questionnaire at the end to really help teens engage. And she educates them and you can pay for that, you know, as a teacher, as a mom, and just really post those kind of events for people that need to be educated. The more educated, the less you are at risk.

Well, I so appreciate that you called it the Cool Aunt, because I say aunt and everyone makes fun of me because out west everyone says aunt and I'm like, an aunt is something you step on. You have an aunt. So now I'm finding out that aunt must be like An east coast accent kind of thing. And I feel like I'm finding myself, my people here.

Not alone.

We all want to know we're not alone. I like that advice you, you gave because we kind of say the same thing too, is I just like to download information. Because when we're educated about something and we have the knowledge and same with the churches, sometimes you don't need to have all the answers. You just need to have enough to say, I'm aware of this. I'm sorry you're going through that. Let me try to find you help. I, I know of this organization I can reach out to do same thing with women who come to us, whether they're dealing with betrayal, trauma or sexual addiction. It's like one. If you have your own stuff that you haven't dealt with, deal with that first. And then just start equipping yourself as the parent, as the Christian in the community, as the youth leader. Equipping yourself with knowledge that you're just free to help when. When things come your way. And I think that's a great place to start that doesn't require anything really, you know, other than just learning.

So, Jasmine, you mentioned your book. Give us the title of your book so people could find that. And then if they want to learn more about your organization and the work that you do, where could they go to find out more about you all?

Yeah. So the website is jasmine grace.org and they can find information there on public speaking about the lives of health, about Living Hope Farms, our residential homes. By the way, we're working on a website and a whole product line. The women in our home are making amazing products. Products.

Oh, wow.

Items like they're sewing, they're making soap, candles, jewelry. And that's kind of like social enterprise where we're making these products so that women can learn skills one woman resident never even knew she could sell. Now she's making all these amazing items. She's super proud of herself. Like she could be a seamstress, you know, like a side hustle, whatever. We're just excited for her. So we're going to have a website and an E store so people can purchase our things. Now we just bring it all along every time we do these events that you sell them. But that would be cool. So be on the lookout for that. You can follow us on Instagram, Jasmine Grace outreach, Facebook, of course we're on there. And the book is really cool. It's on Amazon again. It's called the Diary of Jasmine Grace Traffic to Covet Redeemed and you can find information on the website but it is linked over on Amazon.

Awesome. The Diary of Jasmine Grace. We will make sure that's in the show notes as well as the website. And what a great idea that if someone says how can I get involved? I mean just finding some of these products made by women who are escaping sex trafficking could be a great way to just take a small step and get involved today. So Jasmine, the work you're doing is so vital in helping survivors of sex trafficking reclaim their lives. Your recovery, support groups, mentoring and coaching are providing the resources necessary for individuals to break free from this cycle of addiction and exploitation. And we're so thankful for you and the work you're doing and so great to have you on today and hear more about you and your story. And we'll have to do this again sometime. So thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks guys. Thanks for having me.

And if you're a fan of today's show and this content, we would love it so much if you would subscribe, give us a like share it with somebody, write us a review. These are all ways that other people can find this life giving content. And if you want more information about any of our pure desire groups, resources or counseling, you can visit, Visit us@puredesire.org Journey on my friends, you are not alone.