428 - The 3 Most Critical Tools in Your Recovery

Foreign listener. I am your host, Nick Stumbo, and you are listening to the Pure Desire podcast, your biblically based and clinically informed approach to breaking free from compulsive sexual behaviors and healing from betrayal trauma. Today is episode 428, and here joining me as my co host for this series is Mrs. Ashley Jamison. Welcome back to the podcast.

Hello. I'm so happy to be here today. As always, gonna be fun conversation.

Well, we are in part two of a series on the first 60 days after Discovery or disclosure. Just knowing that that initial time period, there's a lot of stuff that comes out and comes up and a lot of questions and we're here to try to help couples and individuals navigate this critical timeframe.

No, this is going to be a really good series because in my professional life and my personal life, I get regularly this is happening with somebody I know, they know I'm like the person to go to. Do you have a podcast, a series? And so I love that we're batching some of these because. Because we can send them this whole series and say start here, his and hers, whatever side of the coin they're on.

Yeah, well. And when we're in crisis, we are often open finally to some input, to some advice. And so if you had this podcast recommended to you because someone that loves you or cares about you said, listen to this podcast, welcome. We're glad you're here. We believe this is a safe space and that many, many men and women have found a lot of hope and healing through the words of our team and the guests that have been a part of the Pure Desire podcast. And today is no different. Today we had a first time guest on with us, one of our Pure Desire clinicians. We love our team. They are all awesome. One of our newer team members gets to be on the podcast today and he's a great guy. And his name is Josh Andrew. And Josh knows firsthand the pain of feeling stuck in compulsive sexual behavior because it's his story. But he also knows the freedom that's possible through healing. His journey through Pure Desire Seven Pillars of Freedom Group changed everything. And now as a Pure Desire clinician, he is passionate about walking with others toward honesty, connection, and lasting transformation because he's lived it himself. And so here now is our conversation with Josh Andrew on integrating the three most critical tools after disclosure or discovery. Well, Josh Andrew, welcome to the Pure Desire podcast. It's good to have you on.

Thanks so much. It's great to be here with you guys.

Part of the Clinical team. Have your own story. Good all around, guy. We are looking forward to people gleaning a little bit from your wisdom and the work you do with a lot of our clients here at Pure Desire.

That's great. Yeah, I'm looking forward to our conversation.

So we are in a series where we're really trying to help address these first 60 days of recovery, when someone has been discovered in their porn use or a sexual addiction's come to light or in an ideal situation, maybe there's been an official disclosure where it's all come out, and now they're kind of dealing with the aftermath and the what now? And so we want to really provide people with some tools, some next steps. So to dive into that in your experience, what would you say makes the first 60 days after discovery or after the disclosure such a critical window in recovery work?

Yeah, I think when. When someone is deep in their addiction, there's often distortion in the way that they think they can believe lies about themselves, about God, about others, and even start to believe things like, oh, I'm not hurting anybody. You know, nobody knows, so this is okay. And when discovery or disclosure takes place, they're immediately confronted with reality and with truth, and they realize, okay, people do know, and this has actually crushed the person that I love the most. And they're confronted with that reality. And it's extremely painful, but can also be incredibly motivating. And so that's the time to take that motivation and use it and leverage it toward working toward health and. And change, you know? Yeah. In my own story, when I was in that place where I just. I couldn't. I had this war going on inside of me, and I couldn't even deal with. I couldn't look in the mirror. I couldn't look myself in the eye. And so after I disclosed everything, there was a lot of pain and a lot of hurt, and it was very confusing. And so, yeah, reaching out to Pure Desire and then joining a recovery group was. That was the time to do it. It's. You know, you're already feeling the pain, so it's time to lean in and start to do the work. Because if you don't, if you ignore it and you drag your feet, then there's going to be more pain and.

The consequences probably be back here again.

Exactly. Yeah.

I think it's an opportunity. It's. It's such a tremendous time, and it is. It's kind of that proverbial. It's the worst of times, it's the best of times, you know, it makes me think of an old City Slickers movie where they're talking about, oh, what was the best day of your life? And one of the characters talks about day like, he had to kick his dad out and he finally stood up to him, and, you know, you're not going to beat my mom anymore. And this really drawn out story. And one of the other character, I think Billy Crystal's like, wow, that's your best day. What was the worst day? And he said, same day. And I think that feeling of discovery is maybe the worst day of your life. If you've been caught or if you finally put all the secrets out there and you see the look on your spouse's face, parts of that are the worst day of your life. But if we can encourage you on this podcast, it could also be the best day of your life when you look back, if you take advantage of this opportunity, because it's that place, like, we're gonna get this right. We're gonna do things different. I'm gonna change what I do. I'm not just gonna talk about it. I'm gonna be about it. I'm gonna actually do the work and lean in. And so even if you're listening to this podcast, you are already taking those steps to say, I'm not gonna waste this opportunity to make changes in my life, that this will become one of those pinnacle. Mom was horrendous what came out, but it was the day that changed our lives for the good. And that opportunity, I think, is in front of you.

I just love Josh, how you said, you know, it could be motivating, because that is one thing we hear from people, just the fear that it's going to cause pain to their spouse if they share what's going on or, okay, we don't want to. We don't want to talk about this in the church because we could create suspicion or pain or confrontation, and people can tell their spouses what's going on. And I'm like, but the alternative is, is we've been hiding it under the rug for decades and decades. So let's go ahead, like you said, and strike while the iron's hot and use that pain as a motivator, because we all know that pain is a great motivator for change. And so, you know, like, watching watching my brother pass away and my mom, like, her brain deteriorate, that was a really good motivator for me to make some health changes to my own life, because that watching them caused me pain. And so we don't have to be afraid of that pain necessarily, if we use it to get to the place that will bring us to healing long term.

That's a great point. And when you mentioned it too, like you talked about, if you stay in the addiction, there's. There's so much like stress and anxiety and worry. You're looking over your shoulder. Am I keeping my story straight? And yeah, once you're in that place of pain, it's like it's gonna hurt to stay in the addiction and it's gonna hurt to come out of it. But you have the opportunity to grow and to change and yeah, it's time.

Sounds like a great double bind exercise. Are we gonna get to that at some point? Oh, no, it's not here. I'm letting all the past 60 day worms out of the can. Okay, stay tuned. All right, next, what three tools do you recommend using first and foremost during this time?

Yeah, I think early on in this period of time, the recovery action plan, the escape plan, and the three circles exercise are really helpful to help kind of give you some bearings, give you some direction. Um, I think we've all heard that, that quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin, I think it's even on the top of the recovery action plan. But if you fail to plan, you're planning to fail. And it was actually our founder, Dr. Ted Roberts, in his book Pure Desire, he said something in there that was kind of, you know, a similar meaning, but it just connected so much more with me. On the bottom of page 179, he wrote, the path of least resistance in a man's life has the same effect that it has on a river. They both end up crooked. And that really connected with me as far as, like, in my life, I had just been letting it happen. Something was driving things, and I didn't know what, but I wasn't. I wasn't really fighting it because I didn't know how. And if we can be intentional and make plans and start to have a path to follow to move forward, then that's great. Time for change. If I can throw out an honorable. Honorable mention to, or maybe even just an adjunct to the early recovery tools, it would be the feelings wheel. And that was huge and instrumental for me because in my life, the men that I looked to as examples were like the strong, silent types. My dad, my grandpa, my uncle. They worked hard, but they didn't talk about their problems. So I just thought that's the example of a man, is you deal with your own stuff. You don't complain, and you work Hard. And so part of my story, something I'm still involved with now, is in addition to being on the Pure Desire clinical team, I'm also a PA and um, I currently work in vascular surgery. But for my just over nine years I worked in cardiothoracic surgery. And that's when I was in my deepest portion, the worst part of my addiction. And there was a lot of stress. It's a high, high stress job, a lot of long hours call things like that. And I would come home from work after there were times where I'd work like 36 hours straight because we'd have an emergent surgery, operate through the night. I'd come home and. But I couldn't even recognize that I was stressed. And my wife would say, how are you doing? Like, you know, this has been a lot. Or like that patient passed away, that, that must be pretty rough. And I'd say, oh, I'm fine. And I couldn't even recognize that I was stressed. But once I, you know, could understand my feelings and then also could understand what was underneath them and be able to be vulnerable and speak them out to somebody, I realized the power in that, that it, it takes away power from those emotions and feelings and it helps you to be more realistic and more honest with the recovery tools.

I think in all three of these tools, that level of self attunement, awareness of our feelings and emotions is going to be a significant part of what undergirds the process of recovery. But what I like about these tools is I think they give someone a little bit of structure or framework around like how am I going to approach my day to day living so that I'm not just telling my spouse like, oh, I'll never do it again, but I'm actually putting some things into place to help guard and guide me while I walk this recovery road where I learn to be in touch with my feelings, I learn to understand what's driving me. And we're going to unpack these tools in a minute. But I've referred to them kind of like a three legged stool, that you've got a plan, the recovery action plan. You've got a plan for what will I do? What is my commitment if I relapse again? And knowing that is actually a huge part of prevention. So you've got that in place and yet you're still battling to break free of an addiction and you might get tempted and triggered and be right on that edge. So that's the escape plan we'll talk about of what do I do If I'm tempted to go right back to where I was, what are the things I could immediately put in place that might prevent me from another crash? So that's kind of your, you know, your, your what's. I'm trying to think of the term. When you're your ejection seat or button or, you know, on an airplane, you pull the, pull the rip cord so you can get out real quick. That's your escape plan. And then the way you do day to day life is the three circles. It's your plan for healthy living. And I think it's the three of these together that can create that feeling of, okay, I've actually got a plan now. I'm not just going to say, I'll try harder not to. I'm going to follow my plan. And I think that I know in my marriage and our first year of recovery was incredibly comforting to my wife, that she didn't have to say like, how are you doing? Or what's going on? And feel like she was pestering or investigating or, you know, trying to pull something out of me. She could say, are you working your plan or are you following your plan? And those were things I had shared with her. So she knew what was on the plan and if there were signs that she could see, oh, he's going to group, he's doing his work. That I was following my plan. That was part of rebuilding the trust in our relationship.

Yeah, it's so important to have tools not only in the first 60 days, which thank God for pure desire, because in my first 60 days, I was wandering around bookstores and like, typing in things that brought up crazy stuff on the Internet. Just had no idea where to go. But if somebody's listening to this podcast, that does not have to be you. You have a plan for your first 60 days. And we have groups, we have everything. But also if it's your second set of first 60 days, if you have a relapse, these plans are good. Because what happens, you know, as you were talking about Joshua, we're exposed and we're feeling all these things because we've been exposed. There's feel fear, there's shame, there's wanting to minimize, avoid all the, that, that stuff that's not healthy coming out. And then if there's a spouse involved, the betrayed spouse, they're feeling broken trust, anger, shame. There are so many things that they're feeling. And so having plans in place is important. And I've told John, my John multiple times that, you know, you're you're in your addict shame brain and I'm in my traumatized betrayal brain. So nobody should be making serious decisions right now. Let's get the papers out that we did with our group with Wise Counsel, listening to podcasts and oh, there's my kitty. She wants to feel her feelings, but that these plans are important to take out because we're not thinking in our right mind when, you know, the addict is still struggling with, like, how do I avoid pain? Because that's what has been the whole reason why they go to the addiction in the first place. And so, and then for the betrayed spouse, the language center being offline. So having just something concrete can give you peace, to not have to figure it all out by yourself, but have that support around you to help you figure it out.

So let's dive in on the recovery action plan. Josh, for someone that's in these first couple of months after discovery, after disclosure, what role does putting this plan in place, having a statement of, here's what I'm committed to doing, if there's another relapse, why is that calming some of the chaos? And how can that give them a sense of direction?

Yeah, I think it's, it's such a helpful plan because like we talked about, it can be so confusing and disorienting. Your whole world is turned upside down when this happens. And when that takes place, you know, you need something, something to grab onto, some kind of guide or something to look to to help you to move forward. And so using this plan helps to bring some order to the chaos. It helps you to clearly define, like, okay, these specific things constitute a relapse. And then if and when this happens, this is the path that I'm going to follow. And not that relapse has to be a part of recovery, because it doesn't, but it certainly can be. And yeah, and like you said with yours, you shared it with your wife. So it's really important that we share it with our spouse if we're married, that we share it with group members. So that would. There's some accountability to actually follow the plan. And so it's also important to regularly review it because like you said, it can actually help be a relapse prevention tool because you're reading through, okay, if I relapse, these are the natural consequences. These are the logical consequences. This is the pain that I'm going to go through. And I've heard you talk about it before too, that it, it can act to, as a way to counteract our limbic system because in our addiction, for years and often decades, we've been associating the acting out behavior with a reward. It feels good. There's that euphoria. And so that's what you're searching for. But when, when you, if you do happen to relapse and then you're experiencing those consequences in real time, your brain starts to begin to associate. Oh, my acting out.

Wait a minute. This isn't fun.

Yeah, this is painful. I don't like this. And it's, again, motivating for change. And then also kind of like you mentioned, Ashley too, it's so helpful for the spouse. It brings order for them as well, because they know, like you said, you don't have to make decisions in the moment. But okay, if a relapse happens, you know, I'm told about it. And now we have some steps to follow to walk through this.

Yeah. And I mean, I know we all kind of get to pure desire this podcast, these tools, our own path. But my path was one I know is very common in going to the church and hearing pray. Read your Bible. And so it was so hope giving and life giving to step into workbooks and groups that had something where I could write and have a plan and move forward. Because when you're just in the chaos and the mess and the pain and you're feeling hopeless, you don't even know where to begin. And. And you're thinking, I've tried praying, I've tried reading my Bible, I've tried confessing in. It didn't work for me. I still am struggling with these things. So to even have tools and be able to start putting name to that, and it's already going on in your life, it's already going on in your head. So get it on paper and let's start dealing with it. Just that step alone was hope giving to me.

And I think as we're talking about discovery and disclosure, there's two people involved here. There's a marriage that's imploding. There's a spouse that's feeling the swirling sense of, what am I going to do? What if this happens again? And if you are the struggling or addicted spouse to put together this recovery action plan, which, by the way, is a free tool on our resources page@puredesire.org. so if you've not come across this tool or seen it, go to PureDesire.org, look on the resources page, download the free tools, and look at the recovery action plan for you as the struggler to put this together is A statement to your spouse that you get it, that you understand this behavior can't keep happening, and that I'm committed to changing. And I'm committed to changing to the degree that if I relapse, here are the steps that I'm going to take to learn from it, to change and to grow. And when we put things on there, I'll just list some of the common things I hear people say. It's like I'm going to sleep in another bedroom or on the floor for a week. I'm going to lose access to all television or entertainment on the Internet. Get rid of my smartphone, and I will get a phone that does not have Internet access, which, by the way, those are out there. There are companies that have specifically created browser free phones for this very purpose. I'm going to watch the kids for a day so that you can go meet with a support group or a counselor. I'm going to pay for you to go get your nails done so that you can do something good for yourself. If a spouse sees that list and it's like, oh, if you relapse, these are the things you're going to do. Like, oh, there's just this mental feeling of he or she. They understand this is a big deal and if it keeps happening, they're going to actually work to make it right and not just keep saying they're sorry or it won't happen again. And then it happens again. So it really does start to give something for the couple to say, this is going to be different. This isn't just going to be more of the same. And that can be enough hope for that hurting spouse to hold on and start to rebuild trust with you. So if you're the struggling spouse, like, I don't, you know, this feels like work, work, or it might be the very thing that gives your marriage a chance.

Yeah, that's a great point. I think about too, when we talk about, you know, often we're told to try harder, to pray more, to memorize scripture. And for most of us, that that didn't work because we're trying to do it by ourselves. But we were, we were created to live this life in community and to live out our faith in community. And so we're not emphasizing, like, use these clinical tools and that's what's going to bring about change. But we involve the Holy Spirit and the Lord in this process. We invite him in, we also invite others in so that we live openly and honestly and bring community into our recovery. And then, yeah, these clinical tools are really helpful, and memorizing scripture and praying more can be part of it. But it takes that relationship and accountability to help us to move forward. Mm.

So good. Okay. On a really practical level, what. What are the most important first steps that you recommend, including in the recovery action plan, so that individuals can begin making some progress?

Yeah. When I was thinking about this, a few things came to mind. It's important to define what a relapse is like, what sort of behaviors constitute a relapse, and that, you know, if you're married, that you and your spouse are on the same page about what defines a relapse. Because I've been in counseling sessions before where the husband and the wife are worlds apart on what they think constitutes a relapse, and you're not really going to go anywhere from there until you're on the same page. And then reviewing the entire plan with your spouse and making sure they agree with some of the consequences that are listed, that they're on board with that and sharing it with others so that you have group members, things like that, so there's some accountability to the things that you've put in your plan. And, you know, also with people that know you well enough so they can say, like, hey, like, I see you have this. That's great. But, like, you know, from what I know about you, I know this is also a problem. So maybe we should add that on there just to give you a better, more realistic view of that plan. And let's see. I think it's important to remember, too, that, yes, like, first and foremost, you're working your recovery. For you, it's about your health, it's about your wholeness and your transformation. But if you're married, it's also about your spouse's healing, and it's also about the health of your marriage. And so if you are working your recovery, you make the effort, you write out your plan, you review it with them, you review it with others, then it's going to provide some safety for them. They're going to see that you're making an effort. This is different, probably, than what they've seen before. And especially if you do experience a relapse and they see you actually walking out the steps, you follow the plan, and they see you doing that, then that's going to provide some comfort that some change is taking place and you can actually grow together and learn from that experience.

Yeah. I feel like one of the maybe overlooked or downplayed parts of a recovery action plan that is so significant is really taking Some time to list out those natural consequences. And a natural consequence is something that happens to me whether I choose it or not, whether I want it or not. And when we relapse or go back to our addictive behavior, if we're willing to acknowledge it, there are far more natural consequences than we've probably really faced before. There are things like, I feel bad about myself. I feel like I violate my character. It damages my sense of closeness with God and others. It adds to the secrets that I'm keeping. It creates greater separation in my marriage because it's one more thing they don't know about. It perpetuates the cycle that I've been wanting to break in my life, and yet I'm still in it. So we should have a fairly lengthy list of these are the consequences. And when we're in our right mind, when we're in a recovery time and can think about these things, we might look back on those moments, go, man, I just hate it when I relapse. And here's why. It's those natural consequences. But in writing them out, and if it's the sort of thing that we're reviewing at least weekly, to just kind of read through our plan, those natural consequences really become kind of the excuse or lie busters that we need when we're in the middle of temptation. Because when we're tempted, we're thinking, oh, it's not that big of a deal. No one's really being hurt. No one needs to. And then we read our natural consequences and we go, oh, no, it is a big deal. I'll be hurt. It'll damage my relationships. It's just keeping in front of us the cost. And that's before we even think about what am I going to choose to do to learn and grow. That's just the reality. And I just saw that in my own pattern, that for 10, 15 years, as I was struggling with the binge purge cycle, I would feel the pain in the moment after relapse. But you'd go a couple days and be like, I think I'm fine. Things are good. Was it really that big of a deal? No one knows. And just like, okay, I've moved on now I'm fine. You know, until it happened, you know, another couple weeks later. And I think if I had been honest with myself and kept that in front of me even before recovery, I would have been a couple of steps down the road. So I think that's a really important component that I would just encourage people to. To take some time and Think about what's going to, what's the consequence you're going to face whether you intend it or not. And that's, that's the natural consequences that can create some, some brain change there.

The way this kind of applied for me. You had said if you have a spouse, you need to be thinking about that as well, that it's two. And I always was thinking, what happens if I find out something else or if John relapses or the other shoe drops or some more information comes forward? It was just this chronic state of being on in my brain and hyper vigilant and looking, you know, being on the defense and, and what the recovery action plan did for me was it helped me quiet my brain and say I do not have to spend any, not an ounce of brain energy on that right now because we've already sat down with both of our groups with wise people who know the pathway out of this and if that happens, we have a plan. So it's just like I don't, it's already been brain dumped. I don't have to spend any energy. And that was, I mean it seems like such a small thing, but it was huge to be able to train my brain to not feel like it has to be thinking through all the scenarios every day, all day long.

Yeah, well, and I would just echo that, Ashley, that if we don't, as the struggler or addicted spouse, if we don't come up with a plan and some of these consequences that we're agreeing to take, we kind of put our spouse in this position that they feel like I have to show them how serious this is. I have to communicate to them because they're not taking it serious enough. But if you, of your own volition, you know, take those steps and they see that, oh, they're taking this serious just like you said, Ashley, it gives them kind of some freedom to calm down, to focus on their need and recovery and not be in this vigilant place of well, I've got to be the motivation for change because they're not getting it. And that's just if they're in that place as a spouse, it's really going to hinder your growth as a couple.

Yeah. And you mentioned too, Nick, about just thinking through the natural consequences of the acting out behavior. And I think when you're in this initial period, that can actually be hard to do because like before I disclose everything, I just thought this is a problem. I know it's a problem, but I've got it in this box over Here. And it's not affecting any other part of my life. I'm just. This is something that I'm dealing with, but everything else is fine. But, you know, I think, is it How I Met yout Mother? When they talk about like that, there's an episode where they talk about breaking the glass where, like, you kind of see things with rose colored glasses, but then, like, the glass gets broken and it's like, oh, you see it for what it is. And so that was kind of what disclosing my addiction was for me. And I realized, you know, this is actually impacting every single part of my life and every single relationship, including my relationship with God. Everybody's in an arm's length. My relationship with my kids. And so. And this is kind of like where we talk about inviting God into this process too. It's like David prayed, like, search me and know me, so he can reveal any unclean way in this. So even like, God, help me to understand and think through what are these natural consequences that I suffer so that I can. I can be really realistic about the things that I experience when I do have a relapse or when I act out.

Yeah. And the importance of being in group, because guess what, most of the guys who are leading your group, they have taken the glasses off already. So they'll help you see things.

That's right.

Yeah. Those eye opening moments, again, they can be very hard and difficult, but they are truly a gift because it gives us the clarity we need for change. So we've got the recovery action plan. We're putting that in place. We're writing it out. But as we talked about, we also need a plan that if we're triggered, if we're feeling like, man, I really want to go act out again, we've got to know what we're going to do. And we call that an escape plan. And so, Josh, when triggers hit hard in those early days of recovery, when we're still trying to break the pattern, how can an escape plan help someone interrupt destructive patterns before they take over?

Hmm. Yeah. This plan helps kind of open our eyes a little bit as we're thinking through this too, to what are the things that put me in at increased risk for moving into a relapse? So what are the situations, the thought patterns, the feelings, the experiences that put me at risk for moving down that path toward relapse? And it's no longer a mystery, like, oh, I was just walking along living my life, and then, boom, I relapsed. And I don't know where it came from, but it's just something that dealt with. So it helps to clarify that. So you, you know, you know, there's a lot of, like, driving and car and road themes with, with recovery. But it's. We talk about. It's kind of like that. That warning light on the dashboard. What are the alarms like? Okay, something has shifted. Something's going wrong. And then that's the time when we need to act. And so, you know, we need to. To flee. And we can do that in a lot of different ways. But some of the. The ways are actually physically fleeing, leaving the space that you're in and moving toward relationship with others. You can text somebody, call a group member, go for a short walk, having scripture that you either have memorized or have access to to remind you of what's true. And, you know, if we, if we keep. If we're triggered and we see these warning lights and we kind of keep it to ourself because we're. We're not wanting to be vulnerable or not wanting to be honest. The secrets just create a foothold for the addiction. And so if we're honest about removes some of that power and helps us move into openness and honesty and community. And if I can move into kind of like a way that this works out or like an image that's helpful for me. In a book, Facing the Shadow by Patrick Carnes, there's a diagram, a graphic. It's a recovery tool, but it. It basically shows, like, there's a big boulder on the top of a hill, and then there's a steep slope that goes down into some water. And it's basically shows, like, when the ball's at the top of the hill, it's on a relatively flat plane. That's when you're in recovery. That's when you're in restoration. You're healthy, working your outer circle, like we'll get to, but. And then going down the hill is sort of like moving down the faster scale. Your. The way that you're thinking is starting to shift. You're noticing you're. You're letting some priority slip and you're heading towards relapse. And so that picture brings, like, a lot of, like, physics things to mind because I love, like, math and science, but I think about, like, inertia and like, potential energy and kinetic energy and like, all these different things. But essentially the way I think about it is, like, if you think about your vehicle, like, for me, it's my truck. It's at the top of the hill. The E brake is on. I'm in health. It's a beautiful view. But if I'm triggered or something shifts in my environment or my thinking, that's going to put me at risk for relapse. That's maybe the E brake releasing. And so now truck is rolling towards the edge. Exactly. It's starting. It's starting to go, but it's. It's pretty level, so it's just moving slowly. So that's where the escape plan comes in. That's when you can make something, a quick, easy, immediate shift in order to stop the progression of that. So it's like a tire chalk. If you just stick a little wedge, like the size of your hand underneath one of the tires, it stops. And then you can kind of figure out what that was, work yourself back into restoration and then back up a little bit, get the E brake on, and you're good. But if you don't act immediately and you let that truck start to roll, it's going to gain momentum. Kinetic energy picks up. And if it goes 2/3 down the hill, you can put an actual guardrail there and it will blast through the guardrail.

That's right.

There's no stopping it. So the escape plan is so helpful because as soon as you notice something is going on, you can act immediately and stop it when the inertia is low. And, yeah, you can do something to get yourself back into a place of health.

Yeah, to me, that is such a key principle that the sooner you employ your escape plan, the more effective it's going to be. The longer we wait, the more we are in danger. And there are some literal truths to what you're saying, because we know on a brain level that that trigger that we're experiencing might release just a little bit of dopamine. But the dopamine is an anticipation chemical, and the longer we entertain it, the brain is physically releasing more and more dopamine, like it is amping up. And the more it amps up, the more challenging and difficult it will be to redirect. And so we're trying to train ourselves to see that as this is my pathway, and if I don't pull the E brake or the eject button, I'm going to end up in that same old rut that I've been in for so long. And the other thing that comes to mind for me on the escape plan is it's also only as effective as your ability to actually execute it. I think about when we were all kids in school, and the number of times I Recall doing fire drills or when I was in grade school, we did earthquake drills and had to get under our desks. And in all the years I went to school, we actually never had a school fire or earthquake or emergency. And yet every year, multiple times, we practiced all those things. And so if our teacher did say, there's a fire, we all knew, like, get up, get in line, walk down the hallway, do this. Because we'd practiced it a number of times. And I think as you put together that escape plan, it is something that you ought to practice. Like, just practice turning off your phone, going for a walk, putting on that favorite worship song and say, okay, this is when I'm feeling triggered. This is what I do. It's almost like you're creating body memory, brain memory of. Instead of just letting that truck roll down the hill till it crashes through the guardrail, this is what I do. And do it every week for a while until you're confident that, man, when I need it, I can execute on it because I remember it and I've made it a part of my thought pattern.

Yeah. And unfortunately, sometimes when we've had a relapse, it's. It's a good time to get all these things out and reassess, like, where. Where did I ignore that route of escape? You know, that the Bible tells us there's a way of escape, not like many ways, all the way down the path of escape. And so I remember having a conversation once with John and him saying that he had a visual struggle in the mall, and he was able to just say, okay, then what happened before that? What happened before that? What happened before that? And so, I mean, with giving a very practical example, with hopefully not like, triggering people. There was a woman in heels that was attractive and that he realized he was entertaining that way too long. And so to sit down and talk through and say, okay, where. Where was the first point where you could have, like, turned? It was hearing, you know, sitting at the lunch table or, you know, the cafeteria table and hearing the heels. And then the heels trigger something to. That must be an attractive woman. And now I need to turn and look. And so this is like a very minor scale that I feel like I can. You know, it's not too graphic, but. But to be able to say then going forward at that point of if I hear a sound, that's when I redirect. I do something different. I don't even need to entertain and start that fantasy. And. And what. Or it could be a dial tone. If you're older and that's what you, you know, or being home alone or whatever it is, that kind of backtracking to the point where you first recognize that something turned on in your brain or you started to struggle and then. And think about what you could have done in that moment differently. So I think he started saying, well, my grandma wears heels, so I'm gonna think of my grandma walking down.

There you go.

So, yeah, it's. It's really. It's really good tool, but it takes work. And, you know, like we keep saying, you get what you put in, so you have to sit down. And the more you can put down, the more awareness you'll have.

Yeah.

Okay. If someone is in crisis and doesn't yet have an escape plan, what's the simplest version they can create and use immediately?

I think it kind of goes back to what you were saying, Ashley, with that experience with your husband. And what you did is almost like a modified crash site analysis, which is one of the forms that we have. You can work through if you have a relapse to kind of understand the root and where it was coming from. But if. If that person can just work backwards, like, think about their last relapse or maybe, you know, there's a matrix of addiction. There's often, like a common pattern or a way that things go for them in their addiction. And so if they can think through, what are the things that get me into trouble, things that. That set me up to go down that path and. And just label it quickly and then, yeah, just have some quick things, like just to move. Move away from your situation that you're like, if you're home alone, you can just literally walk out of your house and go for a walk. You might see some neighbors. It. It. You know, some fresh air, you get the blood flowing and then moving towards other people with, like, a phone call or a text. I think it's helpful to have. You could even, like, bring up a picture of your family. Remind yourself, like, just bring yourself back into reality, because you can start to get in those places of. Of delusion and fantasy. And another thing is just having, like, some kind of memento of why you're wanting to make the change that you're making. And I'm not necessarily advocating it, but I tattooed mine on my arm.

Can't get away from that.

That's right. Absolutely. Yeah. Because, you know, in early on, after my disclosure and every. Our world blew up. We have a travel trailer on the side of our house, and so I. We sort of were functionally separated And I was. You know, I would come home from work, we would try to keep things normal with our three girls, do dinner, put them to bed, have really painful, difficult conversations, and then I'd go out to the trailer and not sleep. And when I was out there, I was just, like, I was so ready for change. I just thought, I want something that I can't get away from that I'll constantly see that reminds me of my family and the kind of man that I want to be. And so I just started sketching out what I wanted. And so anyways, yeah, I see it all the time. It's a constant reminder of the things that are important to me, why I'm fighting, and why I still continue to work my recovery every day.

It's not quite as catchy as the stop, drop, and roll we learned as kids. If you ever catch on fire, which, by the way, that, to me, is another one. That's funny. I don't know a single person in my life, whoever is caught on fire, but every single one of them knows stop, drop, and roll. That's what you do if you're on fire. That's a great point, but my little acronym has been off, up, out, and on. So first step for me is get off whatever device I'm on. And I think, if we're honest, most people we work with, relapses or triggers are happening when they're on a device. A smartphone, a tv, a gaming. A tablet, okay, wherever you are, get off the Internet, just get off it completely. Don't think, oh, just go to a different website, right? Like, you're still entertaining danger there. So get off the Internet, get up. Like, physically move your body. Most relapses, I think, occur when we're seated or laying down or inert, not when we're active. And get out of that physical space. Like you were saying, wherever you are, if you're in a hotel room, get out of the hotel room. If you are at home, get out. Like, go change your environment. Because, like you were saying, Josh, that can help your brain kind of reset. And then I think that key of getting on the phone with someone else and that vulnerability in the moment to say, hey, I'm just feeling triggered. And I wanted to reach out and let someone know. And I have been amazed in my life. There's something about saying it out loud to another person that it's almost like immediately the power goes out of it. And we know that, biblically speaking, there is power in secrecy. There's power in the hiddenness there's power in those lies, but when we expose it to the light. And that's what a phone call is. That's what community is. As soon as it is exposed to the light, it looks and feels different. Quick story. I remember a couple years into recovery, I was at the shopping mall, and that was actually on kind of my boundary list of not shopping alone, but it was Christmas, and I needed to get my wife a gift. And as I pulled into the parking lot of the mall, some of those old thoughts about, you know, lingerie stores or bookstores or places I could go, all of a sudden, I was feeling triggered, and I made a phone call to a group member and just said, hey, I'm going to the mall. Here's the. I'm going to this store to buy this item, and when I'm done, I'm going to text you if I did that and didn't go anywhere else. And I was amazed. I'm not saying this some kind of guarantee that it'll always happen this way, but as soon as I ended that phone call, like, my thoughts or desires of any of that old stuff was just. It was not there. I walked through the mall. I didn't feel tempted. And that was one of those moments for me of like, oh, this can actually change. Like, I don't have to walk through the mall just fighting all these urges and knowing I could go there, I could get in trouble. Like, I walked through that mall like, no, I don't need that anymore. And I went into this department store, I bought the item, got, you know, it was great. And I'm like, okay. But had I not made that call, I know walking through that mall, it's just been like a minefield of the old places. I could have gone to get a little bit of hit or a little dopamine, a little triggering. And sometimes I think we feel that of like, well, I just need to. I don't want to burden anyone. I don't want to know. If you're in recovery, you need people around you that you're not a burden. When you call, they're there to support you, and that's what they want to do. And so getting on the phone with someone else, I think is a key part of that plan that you could start doing immediately. Do you feel triggered? Make a phone call? No.

That's great. One thing I was thinking when you were talking too, about the phone call piece is, like, it's important that we were accountable for our own actions. And so we don't put the Onus on our recovery on somebody else. So even if you make a phone call and they don't answer, you're like, oh, they didn't answer. So all right, I'm just stuck dealing with this. And, but you know, even if they don't answer, you can leave them a voicemail, you can send them a text and you still have put it out there into a place where there's going to be follow up. And so it still provides an opportunity for them to follow up with you and say, hey, how did that go? Because you, you were still open even if you didn't connect with the person like at the moment.

So we encourage you. Again, the escape plan is also a free tool on our resource page. But the third one we want to talk about is the three circles. So for someone feeling overwhelmed, how can the three circles framework help them quickly identify safe behaviors versus old risky ones in these first couple of months of recovery?

Yeah, well, and just to review quickly, the three circles exercise. The inner circle basically represents the things that constitute relapse. Middle circle are behaviors or thought patterns that put us increased risk for relapse. And we develop guardrails based on those. And then the outer circle is self care and health. And I think it's, it's, it's so helpy health, healthy and helpful when you're overwhelmed to have like again, it provides some structure and a plan. It, you, you write things down. I think I know for me, I didn't actually know very many. Like when people talked about self care, I was kind of like, what's that? Like it helped me to think through like, oh, okay, so what are the things that actually fill me up? And you can write down things about like financial health, about physical health, intellectual health, spiritual health, all these different ways that you can fill yourself up and be whole and full. And so yeah, it just provides some structure, some clarity and yeah. A place to turn. And again, it's something that's important to review frequently so that you have on your mind like and if you're intentional about working the outer circle, working on your health and your own self care and you're being aware of those middle circle behaviors, that would kind of be our alarms on our escape plan, then you're going to be in a really healthy place and much less likely to go down that hill toward relapse.

Yeah. And when you're creating a three circles, the middle one can be the hardest one to identify. And that's why it is important to get help because there's two cautions Here that we can put too many things in that inner circle. I'm guilty of that of. I'm gonna be on budget. I'm gonna eat clean, I'm never gonna look at porn or masturbate. I'm gonna clean my car every week. I'm gonna make my bed every day. Like, all these things that, you know, I'm never going to talk to a girl. I'm going to stop going to the mall. Like, it can be too, too much. And I, I always want to be careful when I say that, especially around betrayed spouses, because it's like, yes, stop all the bad behaviors, but we have to put the, you know, the three or four major ones in there first. Like if we're. And looking at porn at work and staying out too late at the football party with friends that, you know, we, we may start with those first two and then that other one is in the middle circle. And then as we get healthy and we can reassess our plan, we can bring more of those middle circle behaviors into the inner circle. So dealing with my anger was really a side effect of stuffing so many emotions and living in an addictive cycle. And so I didn't need to start with dealing with my anger. I needed to start with dealing with other issues. And then I was able to focus on the anger next. And so there's that and then there's that good things like the gym could look like a positive thing or a negative thing. Reading books can look like a positive thing, or they can lead to romance, fantasy, and masturbation. Like there are so many things that could be self care and a slippery slope. And so you have to look at when you do those behaviors, what happens next or when you do those behaviors. Where is your mind at? Are you leaving feeling positive and energized and feeling like you're pointed away from your relapse? Or are you wrestling with wanting to do behaviors that are harmful to you or others? And if so, those always go in the middle behaviors. And it may not be forever later. You may able to have some of those back.

What I love about the three circles is I think it becomes a plan, like something you can look at every day. And I would encourage that every day look at. Here's my plan. Here are the things in that middle inner circle that I'm committed not to doing and to be a person of integrity. Those are my commitments. And that middle circle, those are my guardrails. That's what I have to avoid. That's what I'm committed to Steering clear of because I know that's part of my old pattern. And those really need to be, as Ashley was sharing, unique to you, unique to your story and struggle. Like what has been my pattern. So if that's my pattern, what guardrails do I put in place? And then that outer circle can so clearly define what is my. Yes, what can I do instead? And so, for example, in our early days I recognized and my wife with her encouragement, that using the Internet for entertainment was just a huge part of my pattern. Because I would kind of get zoned out, I'd waste time reading sports articles, I'd get triggered by something and then I'm off, off I go. And so just I had to come to that point of saying I'm not. The Internet is for work purposes to look up something where I need help, but it is not where I go for entertainment, which is a good guardrail. But if I haven't also answered the question, what can I do for entertainment? It's going to be really challenging. I think many people in recovery have only defined their guardrails and they start to feel really confined and then because of that, eventually they break their guardrails because they're just looking for an outlet. And I would say to our listener, you do need outlets. You need places to go when you're stressed, you need ways to deal with boredom, you need ways to interact with others. But you need to do that in ways that promote health and freedom, not take you back to your old patterns. So for us it was answering those questions of what does entertainment like when I legitimately need a break, when I need some refreshment, where do I go that promotes my health. And so I was able to identify things like being more engaged in, in my hobby of running, reading the newspaper was actually very non triggering but got gave me a lot of the same. This is about 20 years ago when we still, most of us could still get a newspaper. I know in some parts of the country that's not as common anymore, but you know, I could catch up on all the news in a very non triggering way there, you know, I did more crossword puzzles that might sound, make me sound like an old man, but like it was mentally engaging, it was a break from my work world and it was very non triggering. And so I'm not saying those need to be on your three circles but, but that's the goal is like okay, if I take something away because I know it's part of my pattern. I also need to think what might be a legitimate need in that. But how could I meet that need in a way that's healthy? I can communicate it to others and it shows that I'm aware of where the dangers are at. So I just see too many people that think, well, I'm just not going to go to that site on my phone anymore. And yet if you still have your phone and it's with you all the time and that site's just a click away, your ability, you know, maybe 95% of the time you can say no, and that'd be great. But it's that 5% of the time when you're tired, burnout, you don't really care, and you click on that site again, it was too easy. And so if that means getting rid of that phone or getting rid of the browser or whatever it takes to, to block access to that, it's worthwhile. And then knowing where will I go instead when I'm feeling that need for a healthy escape?

Yeah. Yeah. And thinking about this tool too, as far as, like, being overwhelmed, both on the, the person who's struggling or the addict side and also the betrayed spouse side, I think it can help provide peace for both of them. Because so often early in recovery, you know, the betrayed spouse is going to put very little stock in the words that are spoken, but they put a lot of stock in the things that they're seeing being lived out in front of them. And so if you share your three circles exercise with your spouse, they see the things that are in the outer circle, and then they see you engaging in those things that, that likely are new and are a change in your pattern. They see you living it out. That will give them some confidence that you're, you're being intentional. And I just think about, like, from, even from a medical standpoint, the effects that stress has on the body for both, both people within the couple. And so when we're stressed, we have like this release of catecholamines, increased inflammation within our bodies. Like everything starts to work against us. But when, if we're working our outer circle and we have like, like you said, it gives us a plan, it brings order. We can be in a place of peace, which helps to down regulate, get us into the parasympathetic nervous system. Everything is relaxed, we can be. Makes me think about, you know, we're, we're called, you know, God wants us to be, to live a life of abundance. And so it's difficult to do that when you're just wrapped up in this addiction. And so when we start to gain some freedom and some clarity. It can bring peace and we can move into a place of abundance and where we're starting to look out at others and not just dealing with our own stuff and being very inward focused.

So if, if you are listening and want to know more about the three Circles tool, we've done podcasts on it, we've blogged about it. If you go PureDesire.org and use the little search function type in three circles tool, you'll get a number of our other resources about that tool because we do think it's a real game changer. So, Josh, this has been amazing. Great tools, great direction for people that are walking in early recovery. But as we wrap up today, if you could leave someone who is in that first 60 days of recovery with one piece of advice, of encouragement or an actionable step, what would you want to leave them with today?

I think for anyone who's listening, who's in this current situation that we're talking about, I just want to encourage them that, you know, although things are difficult, just move toward the pain. When I was in my addiction, I was running from difficulty and pain and I didn't even really understand that. But if they can just move toward the pain, move into recovery, things can change because we serve a mighty God who specializes in working miracles. And even though it's difficult, God can use your worst failures for his glory and for the good of others. And I know we've all seen that within our stories. And so I just want to encourage you to now is the time. Lean in, do the work, but do it humbly and dependent upon God. And although there are consequences and those look different for everybody, God is going to do great things with your story.

Yeah. So good. Ashley, any closing thoughts from you?

Yeah, what, what I say to people early in my group, especially those struggling with a lot of shame and just feeling like this is overwhelming to get it all on paper is that, you know, it's already happening. What? You know, whatever is going on, whatever brought you here is already happening in your life. And so just, just do the work to get it all on paper so you can really start making that plan to move forward and make sure that you have support. As everyone on here has said, we shouldn't be doing this alone. And so if that's where you're starting, just going to our website and printing the tools and getting a feel for it, great. But be thinking about what is your next step to get engaged in community through a group, through counseling, through something.

Yeah. Yeah, we'll have all the tools listed in the show notes, links to those. If I could say one thing, I think early recovery, it can feel overwhelming. And there's a little bit of desperation that can set in of, like, I don't know if I can do this. This is hard. Can I stay free forever? My spouse is expecting so much of me. Can I really change? And it sounds a little cliche, but I think we really need to just take it one day at a time. That God is not asking you to be free forever. Right now, in this moment, he's saying, trust me today, do what you can do today, and let's worry about tomorrow tomorrow. And as I talk to people, I think that's the feeling they have is like, can you do this today? Like, today, can you follow your guardrails, Pursue recovery, honor God? Like, yeah, I'm fine today. Okay, let's do today, and then tomorrow, let's get up. Let's focus on tomorrow and breaking it into just that. One day at a time. Those days add up. They become weeks and months. And we look back and I would say this, I feel like change is usually experienced when we look back and we realize, like, oh, I'm not the person I was X number of months ago. But in the moment itself, in the day itself, sometimes it's hard to feel. So it's that accumulation of days that makes a difference. So what can you do today? Trust God in that and then get up tomorrow and do it again. So as we close this episode, remember this. These first 60 days after discovery or disclosure can feel like a storm, but you can navigate through this. Tools like the recovery action plan, the escape plan, and the three circles give you structure, clarity, and a way forward when everything else may feel very uncertain. You don't have to figure it all out in one day, but just take it one step at a time. Be honest. Stay connected. Use the tools. And whether you're the one struggling or walking alongside someone who is healing starts with our intentionality. And these tools can help you be intentional so you are not alone. And on this journey, hard as it might be, it can lead you to real, lasting change. So, Josh, thanks so much for being here. It was great having you on the podcast today.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I am sure we'll have you back again. And if you're a fan of today's content, please subscribe, share it with somebody. Write us a review. Give us a, like, hit that heart button. I don't know what other buttons are out there. Just let us know that you're listening and what that does, it actually causes Pure Desire to show up on more people's feed suggested pages and it might be the very thing they need to find hope, healing and freedom today. And if you want more information about Pure Desire's groups, resources or counseling, visit us@puredesire.org Journey on my friends, you are.

Not yo in the 80s I was in my heyday as a kid Went to church and I tried to change the way that I live yeah they talked about the way and all the wages of sin exposed the porn at age 10 and I debated within Is there a way that I can discuss the things I'd seen How they made me feel good but also discuss Image pristine and not ready to risk trusting Consequently shackled to this venomous lustine Next scene Decades later with my secret intact under siege all the while but couldn't see the attack I loved God, I loved my wife and my kids yet the very things I did not want to do or what I did I slid, yes I did down the slippery slope Sexually acting out without a glimmer of hope I confess a thousand times Learning verse after verse Tried harder, prayed more yet it kept getting worse in my silence I was dying body wasting away till it was time to bring it to the light come what may Pain, shame, trauma, sustained blame, disdain, heated exchange what do I do?

Where do I go?

Who do I ask? Who do I know? Questions in quick succession but the answers came slow can you relate? Can you feel what I felt Like I was chained in a dark cave Appealing for help but in the midst of the storm Pure desire was the key Clinically informed with biblical theology I joined a group Seven Pillars of Freedom that's what I needed I heeded wisdom believing in both the rhyme and the reason Perceiving there's no succeeding if I isolate but seeking community though it might go great for me to be restored I knew I needed more Pure desire counselings where I proceeded to explore my counselor Walk with me through my healing Walk with me into my hurts Taught me to feel my feelings Taught me to put honesty first Been on the run my whole life and never knew it no more Running from my pain had to go through it Tough to explain it the way that the daily labor related to healthy change in my brain that was both sustained and created because our Maker in his greatness, love and grace in his patience made human brain so they were capable of regeneration, neuroplasticity not to mention intervention of the Spirit now my heart is undivided in my hope. I hope you hear it. He's the almighty God, our help in times of trouble. Heavenly paradox it gives us peace within the struggle brings beauty from the rubble. Joy amidst the pain against the odds we thrive when we trust in his name. But please don't believe you can fight on your own. You're deceived if you think that you might win alone. Sex addiction is a beast and it's fictional to think that it can be beaten by gritting all your teeth. But humbly walking with the Lord and others you can trust. And honesty. And honesty. And honesty's a must. Some may scoff at the concept that God's economy is opposite. But if not, what hypothesis could you possibly posit? It seems improbably odd. Involving a prodigal problem of people with problems in common as a means to resolve em. The dis. Debt from the darkness. So my story has been purchased. Flip the script and use them for his glory and his purpose. Because of pure desire I'm free with peace beneath the surface. You can pursue your freedom too. Don't wait, the journey's worth it.

Don't wait.

The journey's worth it.

Don't wait.

Don't wait.

The journey's worth it.