This transcript captures a multi-person discussion about chronic lateness in recovery/support groups and why punctuality matters. Speakers explain practical consequences (lost time, disrupted group flow, extra burden on others), link showing up on time to discipline/structure/commitment in recovery, and debate how to balance grace and forgiveness with accountability. Recommended approaches include giving initial grace, then a compassionate one-on-one leader conversation if lateness persists, and framing correction as loving rather than punitive. The conversation also references Matthew 18 and contrasts "tough love" with "soft love."
I think it's one of the ways that we embrace this idea that change isn't just stopping behavior, it's changing the way I view life.
In this series of infamous group members. This is me. I'm the latecomer for sure, so. And I've kind of figured out why, which is kind of cool. But certainly when we come to group, it sounds like we're going to be there for two hours. That's a long time. You know, like two hours sitting at anything feels like forever, except group. I don't know why that is, but.
It goes by fast.
It does. So if you don't start, I mean, this is the most practical thing. Why do we do it? We don't have much time. Especially if you have a group of six, seven guys. And if you're going into depth, it's just hard to get through the material. So right off the bat, give yourself enough time to finish it to do the work.
I think about showing up on time also relates to starting the group on time. And what we're talking about requires some little bit of self discipline. It's enforcing or putting in place a little bit of structure and showing a high level of commitment. And I think of those three things for most of us as addicts, and I know in my own past, discipline, structure, and commitment were things that when I was careening towards old behavior, those were the things that were going out the window. I didn't have healthy disciplines. I wasn't maintaining, you know, structures of relationship and accountability. And I. I didn't have a commitment to the right things in my life. And so then I'm sliding to places I don't want to go. And I think when we're looking at recovery, we want to realize that the group itself is only part of our healing process. Some of it is learning to be a person that is committed to what I'm committed to, can show up at places on time because that requires some discipline and having inviting, healthy structure. So it's. In some ways, it's a small thing, but, you know, your question, why is it important? I think it's one of the ways that we embrace this idea that change isn't just stopping a behavior, it's changing the way I do life. And so if I show up at group on time, I'm showing this is going to be a different way of doing life by my discipline, my structure, and the commitments I'm making.
Yeah, for sure.
I think considering too, like, I mean, you guys are already talking about it, the extensive commitment that you're making to this group. And you have to also consider there are other people in the group. And so if those guys or gals are taking 10, like, 10 months, coming every week for two hours, you also have to take that into account that if I'm late, like, because this is what I'm thinking, if I show up 15 minute late, 15 minutes late, that means that 15 minutes we're probably going to go over, which means it impacts everyone else's schedule who carved out two hours. Which, you know, believe you me, the older you get, it's really hard to carve out two hours every single week on the exact day. It's really hard, whether it's the addict brain or it's just scheduling as an adult. So especially when you've got kids and a wife and a spouse, like, all of that. So I think that you have to consider other people as well and the importance that that structure and that time really creates for other people.
Yep. Yeah. It's disruptive when you're starting on time and you still walk in and it's like, oh, what happened with James again? I just caught the last bit of that. What did he say?
That's true.
It's really.
Yeah.
Frustrating.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah. Well, I know we're going to get into a lot of other reasons why the commitment to being on time is important, but for a lot of us, you know, we grew up in church and around a gospel idea that emphasizes grace and forgiveness and that acceptance of other people, flaws and all, just as God accepts us. And with people who are recovering from sexual brokenness or addiction or betrayal, a lot of grace is needed. We all need a lot of that grace. So how do we balance that understanding of grace and acceptance with being intentional about starting group on time? Because it sometimes seems like it's a small thing. Why harp on someone? Just, you know, be gracious. How do we balance that idea of grace with being intentional to start on time?
So you're saying threats are not what we're going for?
Well, in general. Okay, all right.
Guess you can go that way. You know, one of the things that, like I said, this was me. I had a guy, when a leader come up to me and just said, hey, notice you haven't been on. You know, you just spent a few minutes late group, not like 15, but 6. And he's like, so, what's going on? Tell me. I know you're committed to group, but it seems like you're always a little bit late. And that really made me reconsider what's going on and why am I not? Rather than saying, get to group on time, it's important for you. And now it's just a performance and a standard that needs to be set, which for me just checked off a box. But if someone says, why are you late all the time? Or what's going on? Why can't you make made me think rather than just say, okay, I'll be there. So I think really asking. So I notice this is a pattern. Tell me what's going on. What's going through your mind?
I don't tend to try to over spiritualize it or not everything. Gosh, even as I'm saying this almost sounds weird. But not everything has to have a biblical basis. Not every single practice of your life has to be like a verse tells you.
Why did you eat Fruit Loops this morning?
Exactly.
Because there's fruit in the garden.
Right.
So good.
Which is why I eat pomegranates every day. So that's not true. I don't think I've ever had one. Okay, so I think of like Matthew 18. That's what comes to mind for me. Like when someone, when there's an issue, there's this element of going to them one to one, one on one. But I'd even say before that, like back to what you were saying, give it some time. In reality, it's not just the person's like brain, it's also like their rhythm of life, their scheduling, their discipline, all of that is growing. And so there does need to be grace, especially on the front end. So give it some time. And then if it's something that you see maybe four or five weeks in, it's been this way and consistently is this way, then a one on one conversation becomes important. And it's not a one on one conversation. Maybe right before group or right after group, let's make it something maybe that's in the middle of the week and really just ask questions. I mean like that leader. So like what's going on? Like why, you know, why are you six minutes late every single week? Like that is something where you also, when you have that conversation could say, hey, this is not me coming down on you. This is just thinking about the way that we run group and the effects that this could have. So let's have a conversation and really stress as well. If you're thinking about this question. It's not a if you mess up one time, you're gone type of system. Really understand that grace still is a part of it, but we're Also considering the group and how it functions together as a whole for the best experience for everyone involved.
Well, and I think even the way I asked the question was a bit of a setup because I think we make a mistake at times of inappropriately linking grace and acceptance. That grace means I just accept whatever it is about you that's flawed and broken when that really isn't grace. You know, grace is tied to the concept of forgiveness, of sin. And the other part of that concept is that the person recognizes sin and is repentant and looking to make change in their life. And then I'm offering grace as part of that process. But if I'm just continually overlooking someone's flaws and faults, that that may not necessarily be grace. It's just license to allow them to continue an unhealthy pattern. And so I think back to. I think it was Trent and Smalley that in the 80s and 90s really popularized the idea of tough love versus soft love. You know, and soft love is what we tend to think of as grace. Just, you know, you're awesome and I love you and we're all good, but that it's also loving to say to someone, hey, I'm noticing something in your life that I believe isn't going to be good for you in the long run. And the other part of this is it's not good for the rest of the group. And so in a loving way. And we, as you said, Trevor and you also, Dan, that we can be very gracious in how we approach someone. We don't have to be the not, you know, the real rigid disciplinary, like, why are you late? Never do it again. You know, the threads. But we can be very gracious. Like, man, we're so glad you're in our group and love having you come. And we. I see this as really having some effect in your life. But I'm also noticing this tendency to be late. So that's a very gracious approach. But I'm not just blindly accepting what they do. And I really think that's also considering the grace side for the rest of the group, that if four out of five guys are there and sitting around for 10 minutes waiting for Larry, it's actually being ungracious to the other four guys not to talk to Larry and say, hey, could we talk a little bit? So I think just recognizing we can be gracious to someone and call out what we need for them to be a better contributor to the group.
