In this conversational segment, Nick Stumbo, Brent, and a third speaker discuss how a betrayed spouse can determine whether their partner’s actions are creating genuine emotional and relational safety after infidelity. They emphasize the importance of the question “Do I feel safe?” as a diagnostic tool for identifying needed boundaries. Brent outlines the difference between distrust rooted in observable behaviors (e.g., secretive phone use, lying about whereabouts, financial deception) and lingering fear that may stem from past trauma. The speakers highlight concrete signs of authentic change: consistent alignment of words and actions, increased emotional presence, validation of the betrayed partner’s pain, and willingness to engage in difficult conversations. They stress the role of external support—therapists, recovery groups, trusted friends—to help the betrayed spouse trust their own gut again. Brent introduces the AVR (Acknowledge, Validate, Reassure) technique for the betraying partner to address the betrayed spouse’s feelings when no overt misbehavior is present. Overall, the dialogue offers practical guidance on assessing safety, setting boundaries, and using structured communication tools to rebuild trust.
Chapters
Uh, Brent, let's go back to the betrayed spouse and talk a little bit for them about what this looks like. Um, how can the betrayed spouse discern whether their spouse's actions are creating genuine safety and change? And how can the question, do I feel safe, be a helpful one in determining what boundaries you might still need as the betrayed spouse?
Yeah, I appreciate what you were saying earlier about safety, and the safety we're talking about here is emotional safety, relational safety. Right, can I trust you? It's not physical safety. I mean, obviously, you know, that may come in occasionally, but mostly what we're dealing with is that lack of trust in the relationship after discovery. And, you know, just realizing that genuine recovery is a way of life. It's not just about avoiding the bad behaviors, but how is your spouse showing up day to day? Are they changing? You know, for the betrayed spouse, it's learning to trust your gut again, right? Because their entire world was rocked at discovery. And, you know, they probably suspected stuff looking back over time, but then they trusted their spouse. So could it be this? And trying to reclaim part of themselves, you know, after discovery of, yeah, my gut was right on, right? I can trust that. And then going forward, you know, looking at the signs, you know, do those actions like you're talking about, Nick, align with the words? Not just what they're saying, but are they actually doing and showing up differently? Are they more emotionally present instead of being withdrawn? Are they able to validate your pain instead of getting defensive when you bring stuff up or when you are feeling those intense emotions? Does he stay engaged in difficult situations or does he continue to go back and isolate? So, looking at those day-to-day changes of how is he different is really key to really being able to trust again. And then having that trusted outside voice, such as a therapist, a recovery group, a close friend to bounce this off of, to bring clarity into this is essential too, because you're going to feel crazy sometimes. Like, I can't trust myself. You know, these emotions are too intense, and, and someone to be able to help ground you in those moments, say, no, everything that you're experiencing is normal. And this is just a normal reaction to the betrayal trauma you're going through.
Yeah, Nick, one, one thing you said earlier about where our spouses will say, you know, trusting our, our words and our actions. For so long, our words have meant nothing.
Because we've said one thing and done another.
Yeah, and I know for my wife, you know, you can only say you're sorry so many times. And so even with my wife, it's like, okay, I hear you say I'm sorry, but I don't see these, you know, A to Z, whatever. I don't see any changes in this type of behavior. It could be how I respond to her, how I talk to her, just in general conversations. And then In that, that makes her feel like that'll make her feel unsafe, and not like I'm going to hurt her, but just like in a because of her own past. The you know if I raise my voice or if I'm angry and frustrated, and it'll cause her to shut down where she doesn't feel like where she's safe and can have a real conversation. So she doesn't want to hear me say I'm sorry, I'll try harder, I'll do better. She actually wants to see how I respond to her, how I show affection, like holding her hand in public and just all the little things, which to me seem little, but to her are really huge things. Because if I'm not treating her well, I'm not doing these things that she wants to see on a daily basis.
Yeah. Well, I think that question, do I feel safe, is critical. And I think adding to it the question of why, if I don't feel safe, why? Is it something about their behavior? And that's something we need to address. Or is it rooted in my own fears and my own feelings? And your feelings are completely valid and they're real. But if you can discern that's the only reason I don't feel safe is because I have this lingering fear that the other shoe's gonna drop, well, that may just be a process of time and trust and growth of the relationship. But if you ask the why don't I feel safe question and you realize, well, it's because they keep hiding their phone screen from me when I come into the room, or they keep lying about what time they'll be home from work, or they're being deceptive about how they spent their money. And even if it's things totally unrelated related to sexual integrity, but you're seeing these inconsistencies, then, then your feelings of not being safe are valid based on behaviors you're seeing. And that's where I think you have the opportunity then to address some boundaries and, and bring up the practical reasons like, hey, here's some behaviors that you are still engaging in that communicate to me you're not safe, you're not being trustworthy, you're not being 100% truthful with me. And for me to rebuild trust in the relationship, I, I need to see that you're acting in a way that is trustworthy. And so that can create a healthy, although challenging and painful, conversation around needed boundaries versus when it might just be those, like I said, very valid feelings of, well, I just have this fear the other shoe is going to drop. That's real, and that may be something you could process with a group or a counselor or your spouse if you're in that place, but they— that alone may not necessarily need— you need that you need more boundaries if there's no behavior that you can see that's creating that lack of fear.
Yeah, that's, you know, one of the techniques we use is AVR— acknowledge, validate, reassure. So if you're, you're the betrayer, um, in that situation and there hasn't been any acting out behavior, just acknowledging and validating those feelings. I understand why, you know, that that's coming up for you based on my past, but I want to reassure you that I'm, I'm doing my steps. I'm in a group. I'm maintaining my sobriety, and, you know, your fear is valid, but, you know, I'm in this and I'm engaged.
