In this episode, host Rebecca, clinical expert Dr. Janis, and co‑host Nick Stumbo discuss how people in recovery (the "struggler") can move toward honest disclosure with their betrayed spouse without causing additional trauma. They introduce the concept of "wait‑time boundaries," where the partner sets a clear timeframe and conditions for receiving information, often documented in a disclosure plan. Dr. Janis explains that respecting these boundaries—while ultimately leading with truth—helps prevent the "trickle" of partial revelations that can heighten anxiety. The conversation debunks the common misinterpretation that a recovering individual must wait six months of sobriety before any disclosure, clarifying that this is a misquote of Dr. Ted Roberts and that such a rule can be used as avoidance. They emphasize the importance of the betrayed spouse establishing need‑to‑know versus want‑to‑know questions, and how trauma‑focused preparation work (often a larger workbook for the partner) equips the spouse to process the eventual disclosure. The episode highlights how the partner’s self‑healing, narrative reconstruction, and empowerment—seeing themselves as a passenger in a car accident rather than a passive victim—can lead to healthier relationships post‑disclosure. Practical tools mentioned include disclosure documents, lie‑detector tests, FASTr scale tracking, and setting clear consequences for relapses. Overall, the dialogue provides actionable guidance for both parties to navigate the messy middle of recovery with honesty, boundaries, and mutual healing.
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There is like a time gap that exists between the moment of discovery or awareness of the addiction and that process of full disclosure, right? So it's like what Nick, I think you like to call it like the messy middle, right? Where you're stuck in that place where you know what you, what you're dealing with, but you also know that you're both working towards that full disclosure. Um, so in those cases, Um, how can the addict or struggler move towards transparency and honesty without adding more pain or trauma to their spouse?
So, Rebecca, you know that a big word in the partner recovery world is the word boundaries.
Yes.
And so a really important Like, you put a boundary around that, okay? Doesn't mean that it's gonna fall through, but Dan Drake and I call those wait time boundaries, okay? Which is, that exercise initiated originally by the partner. Okay. In the wait time, if I get really triggered, that may be I take a stand that I really would prefer to not have the trickle, you know, dribble kind of discoveries. So what I prefer is that we— you, you put that into the disclosure document. And maybe, maybe I'm going to ask if it's a relapse, you let me know within 24 hours. But, but if there's a lot of information that you're picking up while you prepare, that you realize you have not told me, you know, I think I want to wait and learn that all at once. In the disclosure. Okay, so here's the thing. I know I get really triggered sometimes, okay? And there are times I just feel like I gotta have that information now or I'm going to die. Yes, because it feels so desperate and so visceral. The way townbounders would say, um, remember that when I'm calm and cool and collected and think about it and after I come off the trigger, I will probably regret if you answer those questions. So here, here is— I'm gonna— and she put it in quotes, these are the exact words— I want you to say to remind me of my boundary. Oh, beautiful. And, um, and then we generally tell, um, the recovering addict, if, if she really keeps pushing, okay, so there's no choice, I think you have to actually tell her, right? After you have honored the way she asked you to remind her of what her boundaries were that she wanted. So we all know that that can happen sometimes. It's just so desperate that the partner can't stop, hold it in, because it really does feel quite visceral, life and death. It's a safety thing.
Yeah.
So if you feel really pushed, you always have to lead with Truth. Okay. And that's probably— she's probably going to regret it afterward. Okay. But, you know, here's the thing. You know that you honored boundaries that you really clearly thought out. That's not something that you're doing to hurt her. And what's really important is for the partner, because I wrote that out and filled out that exercise. I wrote it out. I put quotes around it. He literally said 16 times, he reminded me of that thing. Oh, you know what? I'm the one that created the trickle. I'm the one that created the stagger. So I'm not necessarily gonna like shame myself or blame myself, but I'm also not gonna blame him. Right, right. So we try to put it, you know, and that's accepting reality. It often happens. I think it helps, I think it helps recovering men. Like know what to say to try to honor their wives without making the choice for her. But in the end is that you actually have to— if you have to go with truth, you have to go with truth.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, I really, really appreciate your thoughts around this, Dr. Janis, and I, I think it helps someone recognize, um, that, that, that is something we can begin to work on immediately, that the betrayed spouse can have boundaries about what do I want to know, what do I need to know. If, if you have a relapse, I do want I don't want to know. If you're viewing pornography, I do want to know. Like, they, they have that power and agency to decide what they need to know in that in-between, that wait time, versus— unfortunately, and I— we haven't addressed this much on the podcast, but there's a very unfortunate false belief out there, even some thinking that Pure Desire advocates for this, that says, well, the, the addict or struggler needs to have 6 months of sobriety before they share anything with the betrayed spouse. And that's actually a misquote of something Dr. Ted Roberts says in the Conquer series, because he does bring up the idea that the ideal full disclosure would happen 6 months into recovery. But we've found that there will be these guys like, well, I'm not 6 months clean, I can't tell you anything. And there's like this total avoidance in there, and they're even using it as like an excuse. And then if they relapse, they're starting over the 6-month clock and like, well, I still can't tell you anything. And I'm like, That's crazy. That's not what we mean. That's not healthy. We do need to have boundaries. And I think for both of them to be clear on, yeah, if I relapse, I need to tell you, and there may be consequences, or there may be things I need to physically remove myself from the bedroom or the home because it creates further distrust. And, and for that addict or struggler to know too that, that anything I engage in— and this is what was helpful to me in my first year I knew, you know, that both a lie detector test for me and a full disclosure were coming. And so that awareness of anything I do between now and then will be included. And it's only going to add to my pain. And that actually was very helpful for me of like, you know what, I may not be right now telling her everything like I used to in an unhealthy way, but we're moving towards complete transparency. And anything happening now will either help me in that moment or become one more thing I have to share. And it became a great motive that, man, I'm going to do group, I'm going to do my homework, I'm going to stay in recovery, I'm going to make my phone calls, I'm going to track my FASTr scale because like, I've already got enough that we have to dig through. I don't want to add to it. But, but in that time, we also knew the boundaries of, hey, if I cross certain lines, I will have to take steps and that'll make it that much harder. So I think you've helped us with some tremendous clarity around that wait time.
Yeah. Yeah, and maybe just a couple of other quick points. Yeah. 'Cause if that wait time becomes really extended, which will always feel that way to partners, it can't come soon enough. But sometimes people ask me, how come the workbook for helping the recovering person write the disclosure is actually smaller than the workbook for the partner who's going to receive it? And it's because of this little word we call trauma. And so, you know, part of the reason, like, if I'm working with somebody and they've done a lot of good work and we're preparing for the disclosure, I'm not going to necessarily have them do everything that's in that workbook. Okay. But I discovered a long time ago that partners who really, really, really want and know that they need to know what's real and what's not, they're actually willing to finally sit down and do some trauma recovery work that I maybe have wanted them to do for a long time. And so part of the reason that the preparation book for the partners is so, so much bigger is because we're working through trauma and we don't know if I'm, if I'm preparing the partner, I don't know if that disclosure is going to be written. In 6 weeks, or 6 months, or a year. Hmm. And that wait, that continued wait time is really painful. That's part of the research that we know about disclosures, the, the 7.7 on the Richter scale for the disclosure itself. And then we're talking about a guided disclosure. And then the initial discovery, 9.6. On the Rector Scale, that prolonged wait time is 9.2, which is much higher than the actual pain of the disclosure. So if we get really extended work time, then we also get extended prep time. And guess what? All of the prep work is actually trauma healing work.
Yeah.
So it's so that you— there's nothing that you prepare for in a disclosure that's not also some— a tool that you get to use in your healing capacity. So that's a really important piece. And part of that prep is to really help partners discern the difference between what do I want to know versus what I really need to know.
Yes.
And if I do, if I really, if I'm preparing for, if I'm the partner preparing for disclosure, if I do a really good job and I'm really willing to look at that and let my guide help me, I guarantee you the questions I think I want answered when I very first start this process are probably going to be much more narrowed and more precise. Not only am I going to— they're going to be more precise, I'm going to actually know the purpose for them. I'm going to know the difference between— this is, this is something about my intuition. I'm checking on my intuition. And this, that's a very different reason for asking a question than, um, that I think he's lied to me during. Like the recovery process. And if I know what the purpose of my questions that are need-to-knows are about, then I, I start to put together that puzzle that all of those facts and information that I get in the disclosure, I can put them together so much faster. And once I can put that together so much faster for like, what's, what's the reality of what he's been doing and living. Now I get to toggle that. Oh, and what was going on with me, right? And I start to create my own timeline of how I came to be who I am in this moment after a disclosure. Wow. So now I'm working on my own self-truth. Mm-hmm.
So empowering. And, and I love it. Just even— I'm just imagining that process as you're sharing it, um, and how empowering but also, um, how educated and competent, right, within your own self-healing, you as a betrayed spouse can be once the actual disclosure happens. Uh, like all that prep work, uh, whether it's, it's short, but I kind of like the long one just because of the sake of how much work the betrayed spouse gets to do on their own, meaning they're going to be so more well-equipped by the time the disclosure comes, that they, they will have the tools and the healing and the self-awareness to be able to navigate that disclosure in a healthy way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I think it answers one of the maybe pushback or questions we get from betrayed spouses who feel like, this isn't my problem. Why do I have to deal with it? I don't want to do this work. But the reality is you have your own story, and whether you wanted their addiction issues to impact your story or not, the truth is it You did, and you are really well served to see how did their issues and the truths I am learning, how did that impact me and feed into things I have believed about myself or traumas I have walked through, life experience. It all gets mixed together and we can act like, "Well, that is just their problem, you go fix it," or we can say, you know, we have used the illustration a lot of I may be the passenger here in a car accident and I didn't make the driving decision, I didn't want it, but as a passenger, I got hurt too, and I can act like I'm fine and walk away with a broken leg. Or I can say, I got hurt by someone else's behaviors and I need to do some work now to recover, which might include looking at my own story. And when we do that, it is so empowering and it can really create the new foundation for a healthy marriage or a healthy life.
