Panel-style conversation (Nick Stumbo, Ashley, and others) about what milestones betrayed partners should look for in a spouse recovering from addiction or acting-out. Key themes: early transparency for safety (sharing location/passwords), then a move toward less monitoring as trust and internal changes grow; observable daily habits (honesty, spiritual practices, fewer defensive reactions); consistency in group participation and weekly check-ins; and tracking sobriety using tools (e.g., Fanos) so the betrayed partner can measure progress and feel safer.
Yeah.
So, Ashley, for those who are the spouse of a struggler, an addict, what should their role be in their spouse's milestones? Like, what sort of things could a betrayed spouse be looking for? And should they be keeping track of these milestones or should they leave that more to their spouse who's in recovery?
I think it's a little bit of both. And again, this is why group is important. Because we can't teach somebody what to look for, how much to engage in their spouses. Like in one episode, it literally takes a whole group because for one spouse it may be very necessary that her husband, you know, I may have a spouse in my group where her husband, it's a safety thing for him to share his location because maybe he was acting out with females before or prostitution. And then a milestone for her may be I actually don't want the location anymore because we've gotten to this place. Or I don't need passwords to things anymore because I realize when I go into those, it creates more anxiety. That was my story of like, I came to a place where I didn't want so much information anymore because I felt safe. I felt like I was trusting his behaviors and we were having enough engagement to, for me to feel like we are making good progress. I can tell he's healing and now these things are actually creating more chaos and more anxiety for me. And so it's really nuanced in what we need. And the milestone that one spouse looks for may be completely different than what another one looks for. But, but what I would say is in those early years, share those things. And so, you know, I told John, like, when I wake up and I see you, you know, reading like a growth book or in your Bible or journaling, it is so it just like gives me this peace that I don't get when I wake up and see you playing video games. And not, not that it's all about like, that it's about the video games. It's just it for me, after being married to him for 14 years, it shows me where his mindset is. Is he going to start the day like in this slow, very intentional, self aware way, or is he like waking up and like needing something right away? Like needing a hit of something right away. And so those have become little indicators for me. So I say, when I see you reading your Bible and not like checking it off, but like, see you actually like enjoying your time with the Lord and like listening to the Holy Spirit when he's not defensive, that was like, like you're saying Nick pre pure desire. And after not being defensive and being able to articulate where he's at on the faster scale and what and how his thoughts and feelings are connecting. Taking ownership of the pain that has been caused because of this or even the time and money we've had to spend on recovery. When we first started was like, I'm not an addict and I don't have daddy issues. Like, he really thought that and so did I. I'm like, ew, gross. Why is porn related to your dad? That just sounds so gross. Like you don't understand what daddy issues mean. Like, it just sounds all weird. But then after like a year, we're like, I have daddy issues and I'm addicted to porn. Because you understand that it's really not about the sex. And so just taking owner ownership. And then for him, like acknowledging triggers. There's times now where we'll be out somewhere and he'll say, I'm wondering if you're triggered and if you are, I'm sorry. Because he just recognizes like an environment or something. And I think that is so just mature in his healing and his recovery to recognize that, to verbalize it and then to share with me. So yeah, it's going to be different for every spouse, but those kinds of things.
Yeah, the three that I wrote down were just like honesty and small things. I know that that's been helpful for my wife and that's just like not even recovery focus. It's just honesty and small daily things. I think you can also, as a betrayed partner, use the milestone of how long your spouse has been in group, like how long they've been at this recovery journey. Keeping that in mind. And then I think, and I don't know, this one can be a little bit fuzzy, but I just thought consistency and check ins. Like if you're consistently checking in every single week and you have something where you' through the faster scale or fanos or whatever, these different tools you can use. As long as there's a weekly check in, you can also create a milestone out of that. We've been doing this for three months or nine months or two years, that kind of thing. I think those are some simple things too that just show there's a direction that's being taken by the struggling spouse. And I think that that can bring safety and support to a betrayed partner.
Yeah, I think in some ways tracking sobriety may almost be more important for the spouse than it is the addict or struggler themselves. Because as we talked about the addict or Struggler could get may too focused on just that behavior. But for the spouse, that is some certainty they want, that's some peace of mind. And we talked about using a tool like Fanos and the S of Fanos is sobriety, current length of sobriety. And if you're willing to do that, whether it's daily or even weekly, having those check ins with your spouse and being able to share, it's been, you know, three months since my last relapse or I'm however many number of days, then your spouse doesn't have to ask you. And I think that's really important for them that they're able to kind of keep where like, okay, it's it's been four months, maybe there's some change happening and I can start to look for some other signs of growth and not just be hyper focused on, is he gonna hurt me again with a relapse? Is she gonna act out again? So I do think there is value in that. Just because like I said, when someone has been betrayed by these issues and these behaviors, they are wondering how soon is this gonna happen again? Is it gonna happen again? And so being willing to continue to report on that, continue to say how you're doing, may give them the confidence as they start to see milestones happening, that's more valuable to them than it is even to you as the struggler.
