In this YouTube panel, host SPEAKER A interviews Sam and Nick Stumbo about living a "porn‑proof" life by shifting the typical shame‑driven reaction to sexual attraction toward a "wow" response of awe, wonder, and self‑reflection. Sam illustrates the concept by comparing how people comfortably watch bodies in sports, dance, and performance, celebrating human excellence without shame. He shares a personal anecdote of noticing an attractive woman while pumping gas, describing how he paused to examine what the encounter stirred in him—recognizing a desire for self‑care, beauty, and spiritual growth rather than succumbing to lust. Nick expands on this, describing the common learned response of shame, eye‑aversion, and guilt, and proposes instead asking "what is right in me?" to uncover core needs and God‑given arousal. SPEAKER A highlights the contrast between hiding versus experiencing awe, and together they argue that arousal should be understood broadly as heightened awareness, not solely sexual, allowing believers to steward desire, engage with God, and transform attraction into opportunities for personal and spiritual development.
Chapters
And so just when it comes to living a porn-proof life, can you talk about like the wow response and how that's a maybe a better idea than just this like lust and shutdown and shame response to this idea of beauty or somebody else's body?
Yes. Yeah, you know, let me give a really easy example. Why do we watch sports? I mean, what's the point?
Because Nick loves the Seahawks.
Again, you know, we might say, well, you know, women in yoga pants, that's so bad, that's so immodest. And yet we watch grown men in yoga pants every Sunday, every Thursday night, right? Also known as football.
Why?
Because it's watching human bodies doing amazing things. Yeah, right. Like, I will never forget Odell Beckham Jr.'s three-finger catch.
Right.
This is from a number of years ago, but it's now famous, right? Because it was human glory, human fitness in the body. Like, it was the human body shining in his ability to catch a football with three fingers while falling backwards. Right. Why do we watch the Olympics?
It's the best of the best, right?
The best of the best. This is the limits of the human body, and there's something beautiful about watching people in that kind of success. Why do we watch dance? Why do we watch, um, singers, musicians? Why is it so much better to be in person with them? It's when they shine. So again, it's super easy to name it there. Most people have no problem with that. Right? They would not say, well, that's so lustful, right? We would say, no, we're just enjoying the glory of the human body in play. Now take it to sexuality, right? And it's harder because it can feel like, again, that's bad. But I can think of an example. I know I'm, I'm a fellow Costco member, and I was pumping gas. This was a number of months ago, but I was pumping gas after work and I was tired. I was spent. And in the island next to me, a woman pulled up in her car and she was beautiful. She was dressed beautifully. And I had that, oh wow, I felt her move me. And I knew I was at the crossroads, right? Like, okay, what am I going to do with my body's arousal response to her? I was just moved by her. Am I going to go to lust or am I going to do something else? And, and so I sat with like, what does she move in me? What's happening in me? And I realized as I sat with it and connected to my own core needs I could say I was stirred by the fact she was really— it was clear that she had taken care of herself. She seemed dressed like she was going to an event or dinner, nice dinner with friends, or like a play or something. Um, and I, I realized what she stirred in me is I want to be like that. I want to be as well-kept I want to be going to a play with friends. In other words, she took me into my own— and in order not to lust, I had to connect with my own tiredness. Yeah, I had to connect with my own hunger to want to be like that in terms of I want to be a beautiful person going to extravagant events. Again, that was obviously a story I made up in my head. I don't know what she was up to. But she had clearly— she was clearly a dignified woman. Um, and, and so I would say actually letting myself move took me into my core needs and let me start to have a conversation with God about, God, I want to be like that. Where am I not taking care of myself well? Where am I compromising my glory, right, through overworking or tiredness or whatever, right? Um, so I think you have an opportunity to let people move you towards God. It can be as simple as like, wow, that's a beautiful person, thank God for beauty. It can be that simple, or it can be God, what does this person stir in me? What are my core needs that are, are being drawn out here? And then accessing those.
Yeah, I think that is so awesome because probably all of us in one way or another have been in a situation like that where we realize someone that we see, whether we're male or female, has clicked all of our boxes that for whatever reason creates a response in us, and our learned response to that is, shame on me, why am I feeling that? Look away, don't— you know, that's wrong, that's not my wife, or that's not my husband. And we're immediately into our shame cycle. But that's kind of what we've been taught is like how we deal with it is look away, divert the eyes. And I'm not saying you should just stare at someone, but we're doing it out of that fear and shame of what's wrong with me versus seeing it as an opportunity to ask what's right with me. Why in this moment is, is there created arousal and desire, which again, as we've already talked about, is completely God-given. Arousal is not of the enemy. Arousal is the body's response to things that matter. And we do it with other people, we do it with events. Like, yes, it's our human body's response. And to have the wisdom to pause long enough and ask, what in this moment is making that so intriguing and exciting to me? Because it's not just what I'm seeing. And so many of us have been trained that like, well, that's just, that's my lust speaking, and I got to get over it. And then we play the game of, did I look away fast enough? I think I glanced at her for half a second? Was that quick enough? And, and man, my eyes lingered for half a second too long, and then I sinned. Do I got to confess to my group? And we get into that. And, and again, we're not saying just stare at that person and ignore it, but rather than that very calculated, you know, did I behave well enough to look away, to thinking, why am I even drawn to that? And in this moment, what, what is happening in me? Yeah, because I've said that to a lot of guys in group, that there are probably times you've walked through the store and you didn't notice a single person. And then other days, as you walk through the store, you notice 10 people that like caught your attention and asking yourself the question, why this day and not yesterday? What was different between those two experiences that made me so aware of what was happening around me? What was I looking for? And real quickly, in my story, it's recognizing that in so many of those moments connected to what I already shared, there's a belief that says, if that person notices me, then it validates my worth. Because if someone that I perceive to be beautiful looks and sees me and I can sense like they've, they've taken awareness of me, then I must be valuable and on par with them. Like, oh, that's, that's way more about my needs, uh, that God invites me to meet in him and others than it is actually about my lust or my hormones.
Well, just, I love this story, Sam, and I just like want to unpack it even a little bit further, like because I just have this imagery of like you running around the other side of your car and hiding. Like, as in that, I think has been typically like, that's a good response, right? Look away. Be afraid. Shame on you. You're a bad man. Your desire is bad. Your arousal is bad. All these things. Hide, hide. And like, you're not looking at her the rest of the time. But also the opposite experience of like, wow. And I love the language of awe, us being moved to awe and to wonder. Which I think is actually even then back towards God, our creator, like, oh my gosh, God, thank you for making beautiful things, beautiful people, beautiful, you know, creation, all these things around us. Thank you for making beauty. And this is not my beauty to behold or to steward. And so may I, you know, may I honor her and myself in this moment. But then I also love how different that experience would have been if you weren't tired. Can you imagine if you were wearing a suit and you felt good and you were like, and you see this person, you're like, yeah, I'm going to the show too.
We're all dressed up. Exactly.
That's right.
Like there would be a different experience there. But I think just to highlight, like in your aloneness, in your longing, like there's like, oh man, if my day hadn't been hard. Oh, if my day was ending with a play and dinner and friends, like, right? All of those storylines you begin to create in your mind. And just there's such complexity to moments. But I also think, again, just to land the plane of— and we don't have to be afraid. And arousal isn't just sexual arousal. Arousal just simply means to be heightened, aware. And I think that's helpful context. Like, if there's anybody listening who's like, wait, Sam was aroused at the gas pump? Like, no, no, no, no. Like, sure, there may have been a level of sexuality. I'm not trying to shut that down, but I'm also just saying, I think sometimes our definition or language around arousal has been only sexual. I think we need to expand this. To be heightenedly aware is quite literally the definition of arousal, and yes, that can be sexual too.
