Recovery Can’t Happen Alone | Summit Roundtable | Ep. 472

Hello there, good listener. I am your host Nick Stumbo, and you are listening to the Pure Desire Podcast, your biblically based and clinically informed approach to healing from betrayal and breaking free from all forms of compulsive sexual behavior. And whether today is your first day in recovery or your 10,000th day, we hope that you will hear life-giving conversations that maybe you've never gotten to hear before. Today is episode 472, and here joining me as my co-host for this series on our Pure Desire Summit Speaker Series is the one and only Heather Kolb. Heather, welcome back.

Nice to be here.

And also the one and only Ashley Jameson. Ashley, good to see you again.

It's good to be here. It's always fun to do these kinds of episodes with you two.

Yes, together Heather and Ashley and I are the PD side of the main stage speakers at this year's summit, and we've been doing this for a couple years where we just gather the summit speakers and talk about the theme and what we look forward to about the summit and kind of as a way to encourage those that are already planning to come and create some excitement. And for those that may be on the fence about attending or are new to the podcast and newer to Pure Desire and they're like, what is this summit and why should I go? And a bunch of sex addicts gathering sounds kind of weird to me. It's way more than that. And we want to just kind of hype up and talk about why we love the summit and what we're looking forward to as being one of the speakers. And so, yeah, welcome ladies, let's jump in. And this year's topic and theme is Rise and Rebuild. It comes out of Nehemiah 2:18. And I want to just have all of us talk a little bit about what does that theme mean to you? How do the words rise and rebuild capture the spirit of a recovery journey, whether from addiction or betrayal?

Um, yeah, I'll start with this one. So My, my picture, and from what Heather and I hear from so many betrayed spouses, is when discovery happens, or disclosure, however it comes about, it doesn't matter, it just turns your world upside down. And so I guess that picture of the house that you thought was stable and stay safe and strong, um, is completely shattered, destroyed. What you thought was secure and safe isn't. Just, I mean, we hear all kinds of things. It felt like a tornado. It felt like— or Dr. Jake Porter uses the filing cabinet of life was dumped upside down. And um, and just this image of destruction— your house, your marriage, the safety of that institution and that commitment, and all of it is just destroyed. Um, and you wouldn't just quickly rebuild your relationship on all that rubble. That the process of clearing that rubble and then building a strong new foundation, hopefully together with both people wanting to build a new strong foundation, or even separately at sometimes Um, and so for me, it's just acknowledging all of the destruction, sitting with it, seeing the pain, naming it for what it is, and, and thoroughly clearing it so that what you build going forward is even better and stronger. You may even have a chance in there to recognize that part of your original foundation wasn't as strong as it could be. And so there's something called post-traumatic growth that we experience when we go through something that's a crisis or trauma, and it doesn't minimize what's happened, but it's something we experience as we grow through the trauma and, and from what we learn, and we come out with this deeper appreciation for life and relationships if we're willing to lean into it and do the hard work of clearing and growing and processing.

Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah, I really like that. I was thinking some of similar things as well as really it being something that is motivating and hopeful, because I agree that it is, you know, hopefully the restoration of something that was devastated. And we see that a lot with the couples that we work with. And just really, I think on both sides of the, the equation, that we see that a lot with betrayed partners, but also with people who struggle, that they too have experienced some form of devastation, and it really is the intentional, slow rebuilding of, of the relationship. And probably not to what it was before, but building something new and fresh for the future.

Yeah, I've often thought of the recovery process— it's like we've had a house of trust, or a house of our relationship, that in discovery gets blown apart. This house of bricks gets blown apart, and there's just bricks laying all over. And the work of recovery is to rise up and, and one brick at a time put a brick back into the wall and rebuild what we had. And as you've both pointed out, it can be slow, it can be a lot of work, but it's work that is possible and it's work that has progress if we're willing to, to put in the work and the effort and stay consistent. And I think the summit becomes one of those ways that we're like, we're staying in the healing trajectory, we're, we're staying committed to our own recovery and the commitments we've made. And it's like putting, you know, one more brick into that wall into that foundation. And it's very, you know, connected to where our theme comes from in the book of Nehemiah. And the other thing I like about this theme is that we're not just rising up out of our own pain or out of our own addiction. If you look at the book of Nehemiah, what he was rising up out of, he was in a foreign land. They were in captivity. And he gets a message that the wall of Jerusalem has been broken down. And it says he spends all night in prayer crying out to the Lord. And then he gets up and he's the one that goes to the king and requests, let me go back to my city and rebuild the wall. So he's rising up not out of his pain, he's rising up out of his dependence on the Lord. He's rising up out of this place of the Lord is with me, God is for me, God is helping me, and in that strength I'm now going to go forward and do something. I'm going to put in my effort and I'm I'm getting into the next question, so I'll stop. But I just like that imagery too, that we're not just trying to rise up out of our ashes like the phoenix, and there is some appropriateness to that metaphor, but I love that idea that we're rising up in the strength of the Lord, in his presence, in his comfort, and then having the courage to do the hard work of rebuilding. And I think that's what the summit does too. It gives people that courage to keep going after the hard work of rebuilding, whether we're on the recovery and addiction side or the betrayal side, or we're just a leader, a pastor, a friend who's trying to help others in this journey, it is hard work and we need that courage to stay after it and to rebuild what's been, what's been lost. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So good. Okay. Next question is, without giving away the whole punchline, tell us a little bit about your summit session and how you plan to connect with this theme, Heather.

So I know I haven't worked out all the details, but it is gonna be something about rewiring our nervous system, and I think it's more so about recognizing that our nervous system is what really shapes how we engage in life, what we experience, how we connect with other people, and even when it comes to our healing. And really pulling out the pieces that, that are focused more on not fixing ourselves, but recognizing our body and, and how our body is is holding on to what we've experienced and really being able to partner with our body and have a level of awareness that helps us when it comes to our recovery and healing journey. So it really is looking more at those kind of aspects. And like I said, I haven't worked out all the details, but there is a lot that even in what we were just talking about in Nehemiah that I think really aligns with some of that as far as that process being slow and a longer process and being intentional, that really when we're trying to rewire our nervous system, that all of those kind of things come into play as well.

Yeah, I love that because I think sometimes we would picture rebuilding being a very external thing, rebuild relationships, rebuild trust, rebuild the marriage. But to remember that rebuilding is also internal, it's about rebuilding my sense of safety and calm and how my nervous system some functions. And particularly if we're on the betrayal side, you know, rebuilding, uh, maybe some of those triggers or reactiveness that pull me right back into pain and learning where do I go instead. And if we're on the addiction side, rebuilding like when I feel those same patterns of arousal or my pattern of going back into that behavior, how am I rebuilding something healthy internally? And, you know, as we know, our brain, nervous system, bodies are so connected to that. And I'm, I'm looking forward to hearing that session. Uh, I, I think for me, I love the idea that Rise rise and rebuild is this divine combination of all of God and all of me. And I think sometimes we can get into this dynamic where we think, well, either I just pray and have faith and trust God to do it, or I kind of go the self-help route and it's all up to me and 5 Steps to a Better Today, and I kind of forget to include God. And it's not either/or, it's a 100% both/and. It's all of me and all of him that if I'm going to rise and rebuild, there's work for me to do, but it's futile or impossible to think of doing it on my own without the Lord's help because he is the one that heals and strengthens and renews. And so as we learn to depend on him wholly and do the work that we can do, I think that's how we rise and rebuild. And that's a little bit of the theme that I'm going to focus on.

Mm-hmm.

Nice.

I think that's so good.

Yeah.

And you both kind of touched a little bit on what mine will be. And like Heather, I, you know, I am not ready to disclose what I'm teaching on. I was texting Nick about this and he's like, don't write your whole talk tonight, because I usually am wanting to teach on something that's fresh and alive for me in the moment, because that's just the kind of teacher I like to be. And so, um, this year I've spent a lot of time just trying to not feel discouraged or not feel undone when a trigger happens, but to just recognize that that's just a natural rhythm of things, you know, something that can occur when we've been through hard things, and to use those as signals, uh, to pause and figure out what you need and how to meet that need in a healthy way and how to restabilize yourself and ground yourself. And so for the person who's brand new or for the person who's 10 years down the road, Um, I want to focus on how do we, how do we do the best with what, what comes up? How do we befriend our triggers in a way to use it as information, um, versus discouragement?

Oh, I'm excited to hear your session.

Me too. I need to figure it out.

All right, so our next question is, so many of us have done our recovery in very small confidential groups Why is attending a larger event like the summit so helpful and life-giving?

This is a great question, and I think many of us have battled some feelings of isolation and secrecy when we're in this journey, whether we're on the betrayal side or addiction. That obviously in addiction and struggle, we've, we've, we've been withdrawn, we don't always tell others. And so entering into a group has probably been a big step of just learning to, to be upfront, to be real, to stay honest, to stay present. And on the betrayal side, there can be so much shame of what did I do wrong, if they have done better, and we know those are false beliefs, but they can still really plague a person that kind of keeps us separated. And then we step into a community and we start to find some wholeness, but I think there can be still maybe the shadow of, are we the only ones? And we are just this little group, and as we know in most churches, unfortunately, it is kind of the basement closet ministry that nobody really talks about. So up on stage is the worship team and they maybe feature all the fun stuff kids ministry is doing and what we did this week in local outreach and they play videos, and it's like nobody talks about the addiction recovery group for, you know, sex and pornography and betrayal. And, and so it can start to feel like, oh man, it's just us. And then you walk into the summit and there's all these people that are living a story, that, that are finding joy, that are connecting with one another. And even if you don't know many of the people in the room, there is the spirit of, oh, this is a lot bigger than me, this is a lot bigger than our group. Like, this is happening all over the country, all over the world. You know, we have friends come from Australia, we've Friends come from Costa Rica, people from Canada, I don't know how many other countries, but you know, we get people that come from all over because they are like, "Something is happening here. We feel like there is a move in the people of God towards sexual wholeness and discipleship and recognizing this isn't just for a few people, like we all need to be discipled and mature in our sexuality." And I think the summit gives you some of that, you know, you get out of the forest for a little bit and you can see above the trees and go, "Oh, like there is something really big here." And I think the courage that gives us in group to maybe be more bold with our story, to take something back into our community or our church is really significant because it reminds us while we might do that work kind of in some privacy, we're not doing it alone and we're not the only ones and that God is at work all around the world. And I think that's just a tremendous encouragement.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. For me specifically, and I don't know if this is how other leaders might feel. We have a lot of group leaders that attend the summit. I mean, huge amount of hands go up when we ask who's led a group. And there's just this comfort in being in a big environment that's still so specific. It's still such niche information, like so tailored to what we're going through, but big enough to where I can take my leader hat off. Even as an employee at Pure Desire, I can still sit in the sessions and just be like, this is really great to have some other expert giving me information I can just receive. I can just be aware of what little thing piques my interest in saying, hey, maybe the Holy Spirit's poking here and this is what I need to take away. That I don't have to show up and share work, I don't have to show up and teach, I don't have to— I can just sit there in that big crowd. And so it's a lot of differing opinions. I love the diversity in the speakers. And at the same time they all fold into this same message of we want health, we want to live the fullest life God has for us, we want to have a solid identity, we want to be free of vices and bondage. And, um, it's just you're going to get something. I, I, I feel like I can say 100% you can go there and expect to walk out with something between all that's offered.

Yeah, I also think that it's a place that people are surprised at how real and authentic and genuine, um, not only everybody who's attending but all of the different speakers. And because just like you were saying, Ashley, that when we're even planning our session, we're using our own story within the context of our session and how we've been impacted by recovery and healing. And I really think that that's something that we get that feedback every year that, "I was so surprised at how real everybody was and that I could be in a room, a crowded room of, you know, 500, 600 people and not feel any shame over why I was there because everybody was just living out their health in this really unique way." Yeah, that's awesome.

So we've talked a little bit about, you know, what the summit feels like for those attending, but what about for you personally? What do you personally look forward to about the summit the most? And maybe specifically about this year's summit, what's something you're looking forward to?

We have a stellar speaker lineup. The guests that we're bringing in, Dr. Curt Thompson and Dr. Sean McDowell and Michelle Mays, I feel like it's worth triple the amount because I actually have personally paid for some things, you know, with, with some of the continuing education or, or offerings, um, with a few of our guests, with, with one of our guest speakers. And so just the, the price you're paying for those 3 speakers and the expertise they bring and the encouragement and the insight and the clarity and the direction, um, I feel like is is going to be good.

Yeah, I always look forward to the people who attend, the people who are there, especially the women who show up to our Q&A session, which last year we even had men in the women's Q&A session, which was really a first and exciting. Just so curious. I know, but it is really, I don't know, I think that in-person connection that we have with people and even people who just come up and start sharing their story with us. And I enjoy that part.

Yeah, I'm personally looking forward to it being in Nashville. I recently moved there and it's my city now and it's a fun city. And October is going to be a great time of year for people to be there. And just, yeah, I think I'm looking forward to see how many who maybe in the past like, oh, it's way out on the West Coast. But now they, you know, they live in Chicago or Cincinnati or, you know, Atlanta. And it's like, oh, I can drive there and let's jump. Let's— I'm going to grab a few guys or grab a few of the women in my group. We're going to go. So I'm, I'm looking forward to that. And the church it's at is just a really neat venue for an event like this. I mean, it's, it's kind of like they built their church with events in mind. Like, we know that Dave Ramsey used to have his events there and a little name drop, but it just shows like it really is a neat venue. So I think that in-person draw, someone should be considering that if they're not. But what else comes to mind for me, you know, a couple of years ago, I've been a Minnesota Twins baseball fan my whole life, went to games as a kid, and yet I've never really lived in Minnesota or been able to have that kind of be my hometown. And a couple of years ago, I had the chance to go to a playoff game for the Minnesota Twins in Minnesota. And there was this feeling of like, this is a big event for my team. And you look around that stadium, it's like, and these are my people. Like, we're all in for our team, cheering them on. And I think I feel that at the summit of like, like, these are my people. We're maybe scattered all over the country, we're doing our own thing all over the place, but we come together in one room or virtually and online. It's like, these are people that get me, that understand my journey. And that doesn't mean our journeys are exactly the same or that we, you know, every intricacy has been the same, but that they, they get this recovery journey. They understand the challenges, the, the joys and the victories, the heartache that can come with it, the, the growth that occurs. And there's just a bondedness And I've heard so many people say that, you know, at church, if you are there as a couple and you have this story of addiction and betrayal and recovery, and even if you're doing well, there's still kind of this layer of, if we tell you our story here at church, how are you going to react? Because if you don't really know them that well or their story, there's just kind of this uneasiness or even fear. If we told our story, how would they respond? And yet at The Summit, it's, it's just so different because you have this real sense like, Everybody here gets my story and everybody here, if I told my story, would be like, "Man, we're with you and we believe in you and we're proud of you." And that just does something for us. So that's what I look forward to is that spirit of like, these are my people and we're here together and it's a huge, huge highlight.

Okay, but what about if somebody cannot attend in person? Is joining virtually an option and how might someone still create that sense of community?

Yeah, this is a great question because you can attend virtually from anywhere in the world. You can also attend virtually with even inviting people into your home. So let's say that you have a small group like a home group or community group that you meet with, or even your in-person Pure Desire group, and you could also host them in your home. And then you also could, as a church, purchase a bigger virtual, um, capability where you could have unlimited people that you could just host it in your church and stream it live. And then also, like, when the in-person group is having a break or having a breakout, something like that, then you can create your own breakouts for the people who you're hosting. And so there really is a lot that people can do even if they can't attend in person.

Yeah, yeah. And I know our team works to connect to that virtual audience and do some interactive things and, you know, make make that sense of like, even though you may be watching at home alone, you're not alone because there's hundreds and hundreds of other people doing that with you. And I'm always encouraged by the stories of people who are, they're gathering their Seven Pillars group or their Betrayal group and they're watching together. You know, they're having pizza, they have, you know, they bring in food and they kind of make it a bonding event for those around them. And that's not to say you have to do that if you're virtual, but I just think those opportunities are there to say like, Hey, let's have fun with this and let's be a part of something that might be an encouragement to our group or be a way to help someone take their next step. And we always hear stories of that after the summit of what it meant to someone because they could gather in their own community or their own home and they didn't have to leave, or they knew maybe they felt like, well, I could make it to the summit, but I know the rest of my group because of work situations or financially, I'd be the only one. But if I just do it here, my whole group is going to come. And I think that's an exciting opportunity.

And the reality is for some it is, it is hard to make it in person. I mean, if I was an employee for years, not now, my kids are older, but when they were younger and we didn't have, you know, you know, we didn't have a good community of people to take our kids. We didn't have the extra resources to fly anywhere. I still think there's such creative ways. So Heather, you know, Nick, you guys gave some ideas. And then for the couple, I, I have heard and I've even done this in my own marriage where we've wanted to do some kind of virtual workshop or something. And, you know, like many of us, we could buy something and then we forget about it or we don't do it. And so creating a rhythm of saying, um, like I've done this in my own marriage, when the kids are at youth group for those 2 hours, that can be our space during the week to work through a video course. And so we have the lifetime replay. If the actual weekend doesn't work for you, that could be something you purchase as a married couple or dating couple or whatever, or even, you know, for you and your friends if you're single. And say every Wednesday, you know, kind of make a little small group of it. Let's watch a session and go through it. Like, that is rich material to do a little group with your husband. Um, and then I've also heard of couples that have— they haven't been able to travel, but they've been able to maybe hire childcare for the day or have the kids go over to their sisters, and they've made it a weekend. And so they're creating the environment and, um, and sitting down as if they're in person and just creating that So those are some other ideas.

And you touched on something there, Ashley, I wanna emphasize as well, that for some couples, if you're early in recovery, you know, you're at a really raw place or maybe a very emotional place, or it just, it feels like too much too soon. And we get it. Like we have a lot of grace for that. We've walked those roads. We know what early recovery can feel like. And there may be some safety and some peace about, I don't have to get, you know, dressed up. Not that people dress up. Yeah. You know, I don't have to go out, get on an airplane, drive across town, I can just sit in my living room in the comfort of my own home and the security of my living room, office, bedroom, wherever, and watch this material and be encouraged, get better direction for my next steps, but not have to yet face kind of going beyond that because of where we're at in recovery. And so if you're there, like, we're not trying to twist your arm like, "You got to come in person." We understand there are stages of this journey that are very, very difficult. And if that's where you are at or you as a couple are at, I think to just embrace that, but say, man, I think this summit will really encourage us right here from our own home.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yep. And having access to the replays, even just for a couple months, is really helpful because it gives you time to absorb the information at a slower pace.

Yeah.

All right. So here's our next question. Telling your story publicly certainly isn't required to come to the summit. "Not everyone who attends has their own story, but if we've never told our story beyond those in our group, how can we begin to be more open about our recovery story?" A couple of things come to mind as I think about telling our story and the summit.

Number one is that you're going to hear many people tell their stories, and I think that can be helpful to even get an idea of the pattern, the way to share it, you know, how did how to take what's a very personal, private story and make it public in a way that there's enough detail for it to all make sense and not leave all these gaps of like, what were they talking about? But also not to be so detailed that it's uncomfortable or too revealing. I think there are some ways we share our stories that when you hear several other people do it, even just in conversation or from stage at the summit, it kind of clicks like, you know, I could do that. I could share that part. I could begin to talk about, about God's recovery in my life. And I honestly, just to say quickly, I think that's one of the things too many people miss about sharing their story is they think sharing their story means sharing the whole sordid history of what they've done. And I've always tried to say that should be the shortest, smallest part. That should be the quickest part. I mean, maybe as simple as, "I was addicted to pornography for 15 years, but I found Pure Desire. I joined—" and then spend 3 minutes talking about your group and recovery and what it did. That's the story. And for some reason in Christian circles, we've kind of gotten into this, you know, car accident, can't look away kind of vibe of, well, here's everything I did. And it's like, whoa, that's not what we're talking about in sharing our story. We're talking about what God has done in my life. And I think the summit is just going to give you a lot of ideas of what that looks like and how to share that. So I'd say that. And then the second thing I would say, I think attending the summit becomes kind of a convenient bridge to sharing your story. I mean, if you said, "Oh yeah, last weekend my wife and I were out in Nashville, Tennessee," and someone says, "Oh, I love Nashville. Why were you guys there?" And like, "Well, we were part of a conference," and you know, you're kind of feeling out how much do they really want to know? And, "Oh, what was the conference?" And then you can say it was the Pure Desire Summit. And it might become a pathway into conversations that we don't always know how to bring up because it's not like you just go up to a friend like, "Hey, could I tell you about my story of betrayal trauma? Hey, do you mind if I share with you my sexual addiction story?" It doesn't always just naturally become part of our conversation. But if we talk about an event that we've been to and what we learned, how it inspired us, that can be a way of getting into our story that's a little more natural and a little more comfortable and also give someone a resource they could go check out like, wow, that sounded really neat and interesting. Or maybe that's part of my story. I'd like to go check out this, as Ashley mentioned, the lifetime access to the summit. I'd like to hear that talk. That they told me about. So I think it just provides some opportunities to maybe go into telling your story that you maybe haven't had up to this point.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, you know, what you said, Nick, is we even hear— I think I know I did growing up in the church. You hear you want to use your testimony. And I'd be like, what is my testimony? Like, you know, what's my testimony? And what am I supposed to be telling people when I, you know, share the gospel? And, and just getting so caught up in like what we're supposed to be sharing with other believers. And then just to bring it back to the simplicity of when God does something great in your life and you share that with people you encounter, there is so much healing and encouragement and pointing back to Christ just in this natural way that's not overwhelming. And so You know, uh, I know people who have listened to me for too long, they, they know that Revelation 12:11 is like my favorite verse, um, if you can have a favorite, um, because I love the three parts of it in that, you know, they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. And that three-part— and nobody should like, you know, take this brand from me, but like that three-part of this verse is so pivotal to our journey, I think, because we have an accuser, we have lies, we have shame. And when we stop and identify that and name it, it gives us the ability to take it off of us and remember that we are covered under the blood of Christ and that we are righteous in him and that he's died for us and our sins. And then that third part, that we're, we're not shrinking back, you know, from death, that we're gonna go out there and we're gonna share our testimony. And so when people come to The Summit, I, I think it might help them realize, like, am I still in this first phase of identifying the lies and the shame that are keeping me trapped? You'll get that at Summit. Am I needing to just really own the redemption and, like, that I'm covered and I'm wanted and I'm accepted and I'm not a bad person and I have a strong identity in Christ? Or am I at the place where I feel God nudging me to get out there and use what he's done for me to help other people? Um, and so wherever you're at in the phase, you don't have to jump to, you know, the last phase of sharing with people if you're still wrestling with lies and shame and believing who you are in Christ. Um, but come to Summit cuz I think you'll get a good idea of what your next step is.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's so true. And we also have people who come to the summit who are married, but for whatever reason their spouse doesn't come with them. And I think that what, what I've experienced is that people recognize that if they didn't come, with their spouse. And I remember specifically this being true of betrayed partners, that they were feeling the nudge of the Holy Spirit to say, "You've been needing to have this conversation with your husband, and you're not doing it." And the summit really helped them to create language around how they were feeling, because they sat in the sessions, and they got new information. And I think that it really does help in that communication piece of saying, "This is something that I just heard at the summit and I'd like to have a conversation with you about it." And so I think that it does so many great things for people regardless of where they're at in their healing journey.

Yeah, and that's a good point that even if you're a couple in recovery, it doesn't have to be a couples trip. The timing might be right that it's a trip with you and the other ladies in your group or you or the other men in your group. We've had, fathers and sons come together. We've had friend groups come. We've had, uh, what I love, and I wish we had a better way to coordinate this, is we've had a few occasions where online group members meet together for the first time in person at the summit. And it's kind of like this culmination of, we've been doing this journey on Zoom for 6 months, 8 months, however long their group's been meeting, and now we get to be together and go out to dinner together. And like, you're a real person, and you're taller than I thought, or shorter than I thought, and all those things. So yeah, I think if you're like, I really want to go, but my spouse is kind of ho-hum, you know, don't let that hold you back. Find those that do want to attend and make it meaningful in that way. And of course, if you come as a couple, we love that too, because as you said, it can really be a catalyst for growth, for healthy conversations, for, you know, what we've seen, I think, for couples is it's maybe the first thing they really have done together in recovery. He's been in group, she's been in group. They've tried to kind of talk through that some and connect. But at the summit, it's like we're hearing the same talks, we're meeting the same people, another couple sharing their story, we're sharing our story. So I think if you can come as a couple, it could really fuel your connection within that, that recovery process. So, uh, ladies, this is awesome. It's making me excited about the summit. I wish it was tomorrow, not several months away still. But if someone is on the fence about joining the summit, whether online or in person, why would you encourage them to join us at this year's summit? Give us your best pitch and get them to jump on board today. Mm.

Well, I would say if you're listening to this podcast, there's something that has piqued your interest in what we do and who we are at Pure Desire. And this is like the mothership of, you know, just goodness. And so there's so much to get out of summit. And I think Like I said in the last answer, wherever you're at, beginning, middle, end, you are a leader, you're a professional who works in this field and needs some encouragement or just some, you know, some life breathed back into you. Um, we have something for everybody and we love interacting with those who come in person and online. So just come.

Yeah, I would love that. I would say too that it is there's just so much hope there. And even when you have somebody who's sharing their story and maybe even tears up about it, and yet it still is this real, authentic hopefulness that we all have when we're in this process of recovery and healing. And I don't know if there's anywhere else that I've ever experienced so much hope except for at the summit.

Yeah, I feel like in all of our journeys there are moments when we tell our story and we kind of can pinpoint like, man, this was a moment of clarity. This was a moment that the Lord really used. And I have heard for so many people in their stories, a summit has been part of their journey, maybe a way that God called them into something, creating new clarity in where they needed to get honest or join a group for the first time, because we've certainly had that of people that are interested in this topic and they've kind of heard of Pure Desire and they show up at the summit and they're like, wow, there's a lot more to Pure Desire than I realized. I'm joining a group. And, and I think wherever you're at, whether you're early in recovery or late, and, and you're looking for, Lord, what's next in my story? What are you doing? I think the summit can be, you know, I kind of hate to say the mountaintop experience because I think a lot of us have had those and a month later we've forgotten what was that about, what was so good about it. But I think the Mountaintop Experience in terms of providing clarity, providing a moment of real discernment and maybe conviction of our next steps and being surrounded by others that are all doing that same thing. Yeah, if you've never been, I guess what I'd say too is it's hard to describe what it feels like. And that's what I get so consistently when people come for their first time and I get to interact with them. They're like, I wish I'd have come sooner. Like, this has been so good and you really can't describe it until you're in the room and you're a part of it. And I believe virtually online as well, you're going to hear such great content. But there is something powerful about the in-person experience. So to give one more pitch for joining us in Nashville, October 2nd and 3rd, I think it's going to be awesome. And yeah, I'm looking forward to your talks. I'm looking forward to our guest speakers. I've seen some of the breakout sessions and what we're focusing on there, and I'm like, man, those are all good. How do I go to all of them? It's just— it's going to be a good weekend. So I hope that you will sign up and I'm going to make this offer. I didn't talk with anyone about this, so I'm going out a little bit a little bit out on a limb here, but I want to encourage you, if you're on the fence, like, sign up, go for it. And so for everybody who signs up within 7 days of this podcast coming out, we, we will randomly pick 3 of you and send you a free podcast mug as a thank you. So just a little incentive to sign up within a week of this podcast coming out. So it comes out on a Tuesday, so you've got the next week to have the conversations and sign up. And everyone who signs up within a week of this episode will be in the drawing for a free podcast mug, just as our way of saying thanks for listening and thanks for joining us at the summit. So Ashley, Heather, thank you so much for who you are, for the stories you're living, and for how I know that will be so beautifully on display in your talks at the summit. Any final words before we wrap up today?

Come join us. Be there. We can't wait to see you. Yeah, just be encouraged.

There's lots of hope and growth and excitement for the future wherever you're at.

Hope, growth, and excitement. There's a t-shirt right there in the making. Yeah. Well, recovery is never meant to happen alone. Rising and rebuilding takes courage, honesty, and the willingness to step beyond isolation into community. Whether your story includes addiction, betrayal, or simply a desire for deeper healing, there is strength in gathering with others who understand the journey. The Pure Desire Summit reminds us that hope grows when we share our stories, learn together, and encourage one another. No matter where you are in recovery, your next step matters, and healing is always worth pursuing. Ashley, Heather, thanks for being here today. Thank you. Thank you. And if you're a fan of this content, if today's show meant something to you, would you please share it with somebody else? Write us a review, give us a like. All of these are ways that more people will find this life-giving content. And if you want more information about Pure Desire's groups, resources, or counseling, or the Pure Desire Summit, visit us at puredesire.org or find more information about the summit at puredesire.org/summit. Journey on, my friends. You are not alone.