This YouTube panel (Feb 14, 2024) centers on rebuilding sexual intimacy in marriage during recovery from unwanted sexual behaviors. Brent and Nicole offer a couple’s firsthand account: midway through counseling they experienced renewed sexual intimacy driven by increased emotional vulnerability, use of connected curricula (including an "emotional impact letter"), and deliberate attention to spouse-focused sexual pacing. The discussion emphasizes that sex alone won't fix relational issues, that abstinence can be clinically useful if timeboxed with goals and ground rules, and practical points such as differing sexual-response timing (men peak much faster than women) and the need to reestablish safety and reunification.
So, and as this is a part of you guys story and you know, it's good. It's good to hear more context as we get into this next question that you guys didn't necessarily stop having sex during that process. But obviously, but obviously, as you guys are getting into recovery and intimacy in other arenas is being created, I'm sure sex changed to some degree. So will you just explain kind of what that process was like and how it changed as you guys were both in your own healing journey?
Yeah, I think we. We hit a kind of a height of or sexual time together right in the middle of counseling. It was about halfway through counseling. And I just remember that it was great. Sex was pretty amazing. It was great during that time. It was really what was happening to us in each of the sessions that we were walking through. And we went through the connected curriculum, we went through the genesis process for change. And I think it was really, from my perspective. Nicole will give her perspective in a minute. Here was about the. My ability to be emotionally vulnerable. And those exercises really take you to a deep point of reflection about self and about relationship and give you an opportunity to give words what you're feeling. That's so hard sometimes for guys that are, you know, have challenges with intimacy. And I think that really just opened up the doors because that vulnerability, when Nicole saw that in me, that just wanted her, even if we're talking about some hard issues or some. Some ways I was hurt. She just made her want to draw closer to me, which just opened up the doors for the sexual intimacy.
One of the things that I think I missed most when Brent was really struggling with his unwanted sexual behaviors was just that sense of connection. It's like, I just want to know what's going on with you. I want to know what you're thinking. I want to know what your dreams are. I. Whatever the good, the bad, the ugly, I just want to know you. And I just felt like that part was missing because he was so. He pulled away so much. He isolated so much. And the only place that he really wanted to connect during the worst of it was in the bedroom. Well, that wasn't great for me. And so again, he kind of mentioned for the emotional impact letter, I finally had a voice to say, this was horrible. Yeah, this was horrible for me and this is why. And this is all the ways that it affected me. And like, for him to have a response to that, that involved emotion, I think I remember you actually cried when you read your response back to me. And it was like, oh, okay. You're, you're feeling now. I can see that you're feeling now what I was feeling. Whereas before it was like, oh, you're hurting. Who cares? You know, it's, it's kind of, it's kind of more self focused for him. But certainly, yeah, the emotional connection made such a difference and I started to feel safe enough that I could actually be present during our lovemaking and not checked out. And really, I mean, the other thing that I think markedly changed was rather than coming in and it's about, you know, my needs. It's been this many days and I need release. Which was kind of his narrative. It was like, okay, what, what can I do for you? And if you. I like it in the connected workbook with the, the sexual response cycle that kind of maps it out. Like, what is it, two and a half minutes for peak sexual arousal for a man, it takes more like 15 minutes for the woman. And you know, so I think it was Gregoire, wasn't it? Gregoire. And yeah, yeah. So the Gregoire is in their book Good Guys Guys to Create sex. They, they liken it to. When you both go out for a four course meal and he basically finishes everything in dessert. She's finished maybe the appetizer and salad, and he's like, okay, time to go. It's like, wait, they just brought me my steak, you know, and so. Yeah, so. So for him to focus on me, it really was great actually for. Yeah, it really was great.
Well, that we got a lot of that from Ted and Diane. And you know, Ted says, make sure you take care of your wife first. I remember that.
Yeah.
And you know, he's talking about that arousal cycle and that if you don't make sure that she's enjoying it and receiving pleasure, it's very easy just to jump into it and be done and then left her hanging there. And if you can imagine if guys listening to this can put themselves on the other side of that equation and you're married for 10, 20, 30 years, that's your wife's experience is that you're constantly getting to climax and this is the best thing ever. And she, she's rarely. Because you're not taking time to focus on her, then it's no wonder 20 years down the road that she doesn't enjoy sex and is not really that interesting.
Yeah, I love the beauty that you guys are expressing of that emotional connection of being present physically and emotionally and engag with one another. That it's not just, I mean, that's one of the Lies. Our culture is selling us that sex is just bodies and sex is just pleasure. And obviously our bodies are involved in the process. But if that's all it is, it's not the kind of fulfilling experience for a married couple that God intended. And you know, what I see from a lot of couples, both in disclosure or discovery or during just the years prior to that, where there's kind of that staggered disclosure, is the way that they will try to use sex to fix things, either by having sex or by not having sex. And just as you described, though, they'll think, well, if we just have sex enough, if I meet his needs enough, if we're active, there will be no need to stray. And. And they end up very disillusioned because they realize there's not enough sex in the world that can, in and of itself, fix a problem, whereas vice versa, some people will use a lack of sex like, well, this will show them, or then, you know, I'm punishing them. And the couple grows very apart. Distance, like the presence of sex or the lack of it, neither one is in and of itself is very effective in creating change. It has much more to do with what's happening outside of the bedroom and just what you're describing, because I know there are couples that have walked through recovery, and they continue to have some pattern of sexual engagement along with the strides they're taking towards connecting emotionally, learning how to share their feelings, addressing their past, taking ownership of the pain they've caused. And I know other couples that have walked through recovery and had a long season of abstinence while doing that same work of addressing the pain and walking through recovery. So it's not necessarily one way or the other that is better, but it's really focusing on what do we need to do. Just. Just as you guys said, to be present with one another physically and emotionally, that we're all here, we're in it for one another, and that that really produces a season of much deeper connection than anyone has had. And so I think just to share with couples, is there a right way or a wrong way after discovery, should there be sex? Shouldn't there be? That will need to be determined by your relationship, by the safety you feel in engaging in that. But what is more important is what is happening within the relationship to rebuild trust, to have an awareness of one another's emotions and all the work that you guys are describing. So I think that just aligns really well with what we see and helps maybe give people a perspective on what really, do I need to be focused on in recovery that it's not the sex. What I should really focus on is the other connection pieces. And then what happens in the bedroom will be very different, couple to couple.
Yep. I agree.
Yeah. That period of abstinence would highly encourage that the couple talk to a counselor about that. And it is a period. So it's not. There's a lot of utility in the clinical side of things to take an abstinence period, but there should be ground rules and goals associated with that. And a lot of it is about working on self for both. Both the partners in that. And then also reestablishing safety and security, especially for the betrayed spouse. So that at the end of that, that period, then there's reunification that can occur. But there should be a goal of reunification. I don't believe that God's design for the marital relationship was for it to be sexless. I don't think that was his plan. Now, that's been abused, obviously, with. With, you know, people manipulating First Corinthians 7 and. And feel. Feel men feeling like they deserve this or the wife owes it to them. But I don't think that's God's design for sexless marriages.
