In this conversation, Nick Stumbo and guests discuss how modern culture often equates sexual activity and sexual appeal with personal identity, acceptance, and popularity—a mindset they argue is harmful. Joshua shares his personal history of early sexual exposure, a decade in the porn industry, and a 16‑month period of total abstinence and spiritual recalibration before marriage, describing how overexposure desensitized him to the true value of sexuality. Speaker C introduces the concept of the “Arousal Template,” drawn from Patrick Carnes’ work on sexual addiction, and reflects on how early relational wounds (particularly with his mother) distorted his sexual preferences toward perverse patterns, while also identifying moments of genuine beauty rooted in childhood love and care. The dialogue moves toward questioning how discipleship curricula (e.g., Pure Desire) might be revised to help men recognize the difference between perverted preferences and the goodness of sexuality, encouraging listeners to examine both the sources of their broken ideas and the underlying goodness that can be reclaimed.
Chapters
Uh, so Joshua, one of those things I think culture has conditioned us that we've maybe never paused to really think about is this mindset that, um, if I have a lot of sexual appeal or if I'm very sexually active, that that equates to meaning I'm accepted or popular, or that becomes part of my identity. Uh, why is this such a false way of thinking?
Yeah, I mean, I, I think I mean, for a Christian, it's a way to grow apathetic to something you should have empathy for, you know. Um, it's— and, and maybe just a, a better way to phrase that is, um, when, when there's overexposure to, to something that I should only be exposed to in a certain way, I'm not gonna be— I'm not gonna be able to value for what it is. So I, I just, I mean, I think like what we keep saying across the board is pornography or multiple partners and, and all this stuff is, I mean, I've, I've experienced this stuff firsthand and I had to, you know, I had the gift of, um, about 16 months of fasting and recalibration and I had the opportunity to be in a desert so that I could appreciate an oasis. And, and I would say if, if I hadn't done that, um, I mean, I, I trust God and I, I trust that the plan that he had for our life, but I think if I wouldn't have had that gap where I went from, you know, I, I started— I lost my virginity at 13. I had many, many partners prior to being in the porn industry. Was in the porn industry for, you know, I was associated with it for almost a decade. And then, you know, at 11 years ago, I meet Hope, and, um, her answer is no, no, no, and don't ask, you know. And, and then I put— I decided to put God to the test. I'm like, man, I'm just gonna say, okay, um, what, what does this consecration— what is this? What does this look like to walk in integrity? Um, because you know what the Psalms say, man. Um, the man who is willing to walk in integrity, God will withhold no good thing. So I'm like, man, maybe I'm gonna, you know, I'm just gonna put it to the test. And, uh, I jokingly say, it's like, man, um, we, we completely abstain, you know, I completely abstain from pornography, masturbation, and any sex from the time that, you know, we met until the time we got married, which was about 16 months. And Um, I'm better for it, but I think it— I needed to do that because I needed, um, to get back to a place where I was more sensitive to things that I was overexposed to. You know, I, I, I'd grown desensitized to things that have— that, that should have been sensational and powerful. So I think that's, that's the danger. Like, the danger in, in living that way is you're gonna get oversaturated with, with things where you're supposed to experience them in a specific way, and you'll never be able to appreciate this incredible thing because you've just been kind of snacking all over the place.
Well, to that point, Josh, I think about all the primarily single guys that I've walked with in group, and a part of our discipleship curriculum, we have something called the Arousal Template. This is Patrick Carnes' idea, leading sexual addiction expert, and it comes into our discipleship curriculum. And it just— I'm, I'm really fascinated right now. I'm like, man, should we rewrite this curriculum a little bit? Because to some degree, you have an arousal template that's been either deformed and shaped by something, to your point, that's not a preference, that's a perversion. Like, that's a way in which you've been instructed that hasn't been helpful. And I know in my own journey coming to go, wait, where was there beauty in my arousal template more than just what was the pain that porn caused? And thankfully, a big portion of my story is in and around this kind of wounding from my mother. And so this category of pornography that I was looking for was more older women. And I knew for a fact that wasn't the goodness of my sexuality. That was pain showing up in my porn search. And so for me, I'm like, no, but where was the beauty? And in my recovery journey, coming to see, oh my goodness, It was that aunt as a child who met me with a lot of love and compassion and fun, and the way in which my mom would curl her hair and how I began to associate that with beauty as a kid. And not to sexualize that, but just to say these were how my ideas of beauty and goodness in the world were shaped by those who cared for me and comforted me and showed up for me well. And I'm just, yeah, I'm just so curious. I'm like, I love that line of regarding it's not a preference, it's a perversion, but also then to ask our audience, not only where did you learn the broken idea of sexuality associated with acceptance and popularity, but also like, man, where was there goodness? Because I feel like so much of the work we do in Pure Desire is where was the pain?
Yeah.
But like, where was the goodness?
Yeah. And it's mixed together. And I think for so many of us, it's trying to unpack like, where did all this come from? And I know some Christians are hesitant to go back because like, well, the Apostle Paul says the past is in the past. And, you know, I focus on what's ahead. And actually, when he said that, He was looking at his past accomplishments and achievements. He wasn't saying, don't, don't look at how you were formed. Because in my own story, I carried a lot of this from like high school sports and the movies I watched that always presented that the most popular guy was the one the girls all wanted. And if the girls wanted you, then you were the best. And that very much became part of my fantasy world. And what pornography did for me in a very false way is, is in that fantasy, the the most beautiful girl wanted me, and that made me feel like I was the most popular guy. And if I was unwilling to look at that, I would still be trying to catch the attention of the most beautiful girl in the room because of how it would make me feel. And I've had to look back and go, "Wow, that is so much about my story of wanting to be popular or wanting to be more accepted." But that's not the way it happens. To see the falsehoods of that, even though there was a desire, as you pointed out, you know, there are real desires to be seen, to be noticed, to be valued. But when we in an artificial way make that about our value, worth, and identity, we're going to get sucked back into that same thing that maybe we were trying to find at 14, 15, 16 years old, not even realizing we're just simply trying to replay the past and find that artificial acceptance.
