The Fruit Of Marriage | Pure Desire Ministries

Tell us a little bit about what that might look like for a couple that is trying to analyze. Are we growing in our intimacy in all these areas? What might be some of the fruit of true intimacy growing in someone's life? And do you have any tools that you would recommend for helping couples work on that in their marriages?

Sure. Yeah. I tell you, one of the. One of the things that we've seen really change between the two of us is our ability to share temptations together. And that's a tough one for people that have offended one another, especially with betrayal or sexual issues. Right. But early on, I realized that if I was going to get in front of a lot of these temptations and issues, I was going to have to engage Priscilla. We engage one another. We call each other battle partners now. And so if I'm in a place of temptation, early on, we used to have a code. So I would send her a text message, and it was the little praying hands emoji. And that was if I was having a thought or a temptation or a struggle. And so, like, early on, if I was riding around town, I ran. Rode past a massage parlor. It might bring back a past memory. And I would send her a quick praying hands emoji, and she would send me back like little googly eyes, I love you. I'm praying for you. And I'd forget about it. I really would. I'd get home and I would ask.

Him, what was the praying hands about? And he would share with me what happened.

Yeah. And. And we still walk through it in this level. I mean, just the other day, we had gone to a little Brazilian grocery store that Priscilla wanted. Wanted to go to and hadn't been there before. We pulled into the plaza in park, and I looked on the right, and there was a massage parlor that I had been to years ago. And I got triggered. I turned off the car, and she started to get out. And I said, listen, I need to talk to you right now, because I'm getting triggered. And she said, by what? And I said, that massage parlor right there, I've been into that, and it's just pulling up memories that I don't want to have in my head.

And I said, hey, well, you know what? I'm ready to go in there and tell them about Jesus. Do you want to go with me?

And I said, no, I don't want to go under any circumstances. But see, what that did is, it put us on a place where we can now come to the most intimate part of ourselves, which is our desires, our Desires and our temptations, you know, and stuff like this and things that we don't want to have. And so we are able to operate at a level like that. And this happens in multiple places for us. You know, even going into the gym where you running into somebody that trigger for you or something like that.

Yeah, I mean we just, we just talk almost every time we leave the gym. We say, so did it? And did you get triggered? Yeah, most of the time is no.

But see, we think this is the essence of what God said. It's not good for man to be alone. I am no longer alone in my thoughts and temptations, you know. And yeah, I could go call a buddy and tell a buddy, but a buddy isn't around me as much. And frankly my buddies are not going to be nearly as offended as Priscilla is going to be. And so for me to be able to walk into this relationship with Priscilla and pull her in that tight and trust her with that, with my, with my emotions in the middle of that has been an amazing experience.

You know, another thing that we have done too and that is with our trauma of our past. Right. We, we kind of knew kind of like by fact this happened to me. I just want you to know I said that three years into our marriage, hey, this happened just for you to know. And that's all he knew. Right. And so for 28 years I'm living with this stuff and not wanting to come forth with it.

Right.

And so after we, after he came clean, after I came clean and stuff, we, you know, it's. I think it was like four years ago, I walked through the trauma of my past and I shared all the details of what happened and who it was, where I was, everything of what happened. And I will tell you, it is the first time that I ever shared that much about something that was traumatic to me.

Yeah.

But you know, we both cried and we grieved for what was lost as a six year old.

Yeah.

And I had never done that before. Nobody knew. Right. And. And for him to come alongside me and cry and pray for me. Ah, that was amazing. Because that was a no go before, you know, but feeling safe and being vulnerable to share that, that is what we're, that's what we're talking about is having that place of intimacy that you can share anything with that person. Well, it, and still know that they love you and they're not going to reject you.

Yes. Well, it, it allows us to walk out of our shame because our shame tells us you are not worthy to reflect the image of God. And if you believe that on the inside, it is really, really hard to move forward in your relationship.

One of the things I hear as you guys are sharing and really this entire response to this question is, and I want to point this out, that being honest, being vulnerable, revealing weaknesses that we have, like, because saying, you know, I used to be in that massage parlor, that can be viewed as like a weakness or, you know, a knock against you. And there is a ton of risk. And really courage is required in order to be fully transparent, to say, hey, look, this happened when I was six years old. Because it's one of those things where when it's out and someone else knows it, you have no more control of that narrative. You have no more control of that reality. And so I think what you guys are saying, and I just want people to be aware that intimacy requires risk. It requires opening up and revealing and you having no idea whether good or bad how someone's gonna respond. But in order to get to intimacy, it has to have that. I'm revealing weakness. I'm revealing something that I'm afraid to show you. I'm letting you into a place that I'm nervous about letting anyone else into. And I think that it's important to just know that in order to get to intimacy, you have to walk through that.

Yeah, well said, Trevor. And we felt a lot of those emotions.

Yeah.

Well, when it comes to sharing that level of our desires and temptations with one another, it occurs to me that it takes two people who are experiencing a level of health in their recovery. Because, Priscilla, you had to be healthy enough to receive those praying hands emojis or to have Phil sharing with you things that were triggering him. Because there's a possibility at certain seasons in your recovery, it might have been equally triggering for you. And all the anger's back and all the feelings of rejection and what was wrong with me? And so I just wanted to say that because I think for some couples, maybe when they heard you guys talking about it, they felt like, wow, we're not there. And I want to just say, that's okay if you're not there yet. If you don't want to hear about their temptations or desires, that's perfectly normal. And there are many people in recovery that for a season, and sometimes the season can be a long time. And those desires and temptations need to be shared in the group, in their seven pillars group, or their unraveled group, with a group of trusted men or a group of trusted women that that's the place to go to that level because the person you're married to is the one you've wounded so deeply. And so they may not be ready to receive that. And if, again, if that's where your relationship is at, don't shame yourself for not being like Phil and Priscilla yet. Just realize, oh, there's, there's still some layers of healing that we're working through in that area. But that also doesn't mean you have to wait to experience some of this intimacy until that level comes. Because right now what you could be focusing on, like, as I think back to that first year of recovery for my wife and I, for me, it was a lot about just learning to be real about my emotions, that when I was feeling like a failure at work, my go to is like, well, I just need to act like I'm fine and everything's good, but to go home and tell my wife, I feel like I'm failing. I feel like a bad pastor. I feel like I've let myself staff down. You know, whatever I was feeling like, that's not something I had ever been taught to do had been modeled for me or that I wanted to do because like you said, Trevor, it felt like weakness. And so for us, like using a tool like the faster scale for that emotional awareness and check in. I know other couples use things like Fanos. Just a tool that I could come and say, I'm struggling with a feeling of worthlessness, failure, rejection, how a friend treated me. That that was a new level of intimacy in our marriage. And so I wanted to say to listeners, if you're not ready to maybe share the temptation desires like Phil and Priscilla just talked about do, look for other areas where you can start to open doors of your life that really you haven't because you've been wearing a mask, because you've been protective, because you've just felt like, well, I've got to act strong and no one needs to know that I'm having doubts or worries or fears. Because when you and your spouse start to connect, and this is maybe more on the emotional level, like when you're connecting about the doubts and fears you have as a parent, as someone in your career, as a friend, that really becomes a connection point with your spouse that they can encourage and pray and support, and we just found such tremendous growth there as a couple that then could eventually lead you into the growth where you might be at a place where you could share. Hey, I'm feeling tempted today. And not have your spouse back. Oh my God, you Know, flying off the handle.

And I'm thinking, too, just in kind of in line with our conversation, that that would make sense that if you're not ready to establish sexual intimacy also, because I think what I'm hearing is that, you know, Phil, you being able to say, hey, I'm triggered right now sexually, and Priscilla, to you, then be able to receive that there is a level of sexual intimacy and healing that you guys have established already that you're basing that off of where maybe as you're talking, you know, and you guys have already mentioned, maybe it is more spiritual intimacy to start or emotional or that soul intimacy that you guys are talking about, that if you're early on in recovery, focus on those two areas, knowing that eventually you will get to the sexual arena and intimacy can then be reset or rebuilt there.

Well, I just want to say, Nick, that that is like seven years out. Okay. But I will tell you that initially there were quite a few meltdowns. All right. With all of this, especially when I got triggered and I thought things were happening and they get all twisted in my head. I just want you to know it hasn't always been like that. There have been quite a few times that I felt like grabbing him by the neck and shaking.

Yeah. And that's a learning process, I think, for all of us that if you're the spouse that's been betrayed or experienced those feelings of discovery from what your spouse has done, and you think you're ready, but then they share something and it spins you out, like, that's okay to share that. Say, like, you know what? I'm not as ready as I thought. And let's. Let's make an adjustment because that just leans back into what you guys already said. This is a journey. We're in process together, and you're not going to get it perfectly every time there. It's two steps forward, one step back. And if you're in a season where it feels like one step back and you don't want to hear some things and say, tell that to your group, like, okay, that's just part of the experience of learning together how to be intimate, how to be real. And I think God uses all those moments.

Yeah, I think you're right. And even in the times where we maybe got ahead of ourselves and. Or I got ahead of myself. Right. God still used that because I was able to see what my sin was doing to her based on her visceral reaction. And so many women will be reserved in this. And the guys are going like, well, it doesn't seem like it really affected her very much. I guess it's not that bad. And. And I will tell you after my disclosure. And I. I have no doubt on what my sin did. Did to her. Yeah. Because she made it abundantly clear. And that's a good picture in my mind of what my sin has done to my wife and makes me steer clear of it.