A recorded conversation (June 2021) in which Sheila Wray Gregoire and Greg Smalley discuss how common evangelical teachings—especially the idea that a wife must give her husband sex whenever he wants it—harm women's sexual and marital wellbeing. Gregoire cites a large (130+ question) survey linking belief in 'obligatory sex' to lower libido, fewer orgasms, lower marital satisfaction, and increased rates of sexual pain (vaginismus) comparable to abuse; she illustrates the findings with a detailed personal case ("Kay") and critiques popular Christian marriage-sex advice.
One of the big things that we're taught, like we talked about in the First Corinthians 7 discussion, is that women must give their husband sex whenever their husbands want it. When in our big survey, what we did was we asked women about their marital satisfaction and their sexual satisfaction, we got really intrusive. It was like 130 question minimum survey. We asked everything. Then after they answered those questions, we gave them a whole bunch of different common evangelical beliefs and asked, have you ever been taught this and have you ever believed it? And then we were able to measure, okay, if you believe this, what does it do to your marital and sexual satisfaction? And we identified lots of beliefs that hurt, but four key ones that we talk about in the book. The one that is the most toxic is this idea that a wife is obligated to give her husband sex when he wants it. When she believes that her orgasm rates plummet, her libido plummets, her marital satisfaction plummets. But I want to give you one particular picture which I think speaks to how talking toxic this really is. Her chance of experiencing sexual pain, or vaginismus, which is a sexual dysfunction disorder. When the muscles of the vaginal wall contract to the point that penetration is really painful, if not impossible, goes up by virtually the same amount as if she had been abused.
Wow.
So you can imagine, like, if someone's the victim of abuse, it makes sense that they would suffer, you know, from sexual pain. Well, women's bodies interpret the obligation sex message as trauma.
Wow.
And our bodies react that way.
Wow.
Because the obligation sex says you don't matter. Only his needs matter, and he has the right to use you. And this is the message that is preached in the majority of our books. Love and respect said it. You don't have a right to say no except for prayer and fasting. Power of a praying wife said it. Every man's battle said it. Sheet music said it. Sheet music said, even there are times when it's gonna feel forced, like you're gonna feel like you have to push him off of you, but it's your obligation do it anyway. These sorts of messages are what women are hearing all the time. And a lot of guys don't even realize women are told this stuff because women tend to hear it from books. And who reads the books? It's not guys, it's women. So people will get married and the husbands have no idea. This is how she sees it. We are taught that sex every 72 hours, and you must give it to him every 72 hours or else he will lust, or he'll have an affair, or he'll watch porn. Puts it all on her. Or God will be mad at you. Yep. And so women, a lot of women have sex under threat of all of these bad things happening and it really messes sex up.
Yeah. And I love in the book you bring up like you tried to figure out where does that three day idea come from. And you know, it wasn't medical journals, it wasn't scientific research. It was like a kind of a mention in a James Dobson book from the 70s that he just kind of anecdotally mentioned something. And, and I could see that, like we've just built. And. And I think in the male experience, they do feel after three days like I feel more desired. But again, have we just trained ourselves that that's what we quote, unquote, need and then expect someone else to meet that need? And what occurs to me, Sheila, is you share that answer. Like the things you're saying about how the woman experiences it. A feeling used, a feeling, they don't matter. Like we would all listen to that and say, well, that's not a biblical value. That's not something a person walking in a relationship with Christ would ever say they feel. I feel used. I feel unnoticed, unheard. And yet if that's the outcome of us expressing quote, unquote, Christian sexuality in our marriages, we're doing something wrong. Like the outcome should leave both people feeling, if it's truly biblical in its nature, should leave both people feeling more connected to one another, valued, heard, appreciated, a sense of connection even with their creator for making them that way. And if that's not the outcome, we need to have enough humility to just say, okay, what are we missing? What have we misapplied? That's not creating that feeling for us. Because if one of us is left with all of these that we would say are very unbiblical feelings, or not wholly not of God, then we would want to address that in any situation. And so if it happens to be about our sexuality, then let's lean into it. Totally.
Totally. Can I tell you the story of Kay? I think her story illustrates this really well. So when Kay and her husband got married, sex was actually really good. She reached orgasm quite easily. They were having a great time. This kept up through their first two babies. Everything was a. Okay. And then after her third child, she had postpartum depression. She tore things, took a while to recover. And when she did recover, it was like she had lost all feelings. Sex just did not feel good anymore for a long time. But she kept initiating every 72 hours, because that's what you're supposed to do as a good Christian wife. And she found herself getting more and more resentful and feeling more and more used. And then about two years in, she said to her husband, I just. I just hate sex. Now I'm at the point where I hate sex, and I don't want to hate sex, but I hate sex. I dread it. And they started talking, and he had no idea that she felt obligated to do something. And he said, I don't ever want you to do something that you don't want to do. Like, if we are in the middle of intercourse and you're like, nah, I'm not into it anymore. I want to stop. Like, I don't want you to do something just for me. And over the next little while, he proved that to her through his actions. And she said it was like everything changed, because as soon as I knew that I had permission to say no, it was like my body suddenly wanted to say yes again. And so they got into this new rhythm. She got, you know, she finally found her libido again, and now they have sex every 72 hours. But it's because this time, not. Because it's not out of obligation.
Right.
It's like, it's out of passion. And that's what I want couples to get. It's like, if we get rid of these negative messages, it's not that sex disappears. Like, we don't need these negative messages to make women have. What we need to do instead is show couples what sex is supposed to be, and then libido and pleasure and everything will blossom.
Yes, totally.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I love that about your book, that that's. The goal is not just to shame men for doing it the wrong way and make women, you know, empowered to, you know, speak their mind, that the goal is healthy marriages. The goal is healthy, mutually intimate, pleasurable marriages. And it's more possible if we'll lean into some of these things. So.
