Multi-speaker conversation (led by Nick Stumbo) about shifting from shame and self-judgment toward self-compassion and curiosity. Uses the Mirror of Erised (Harry Potter) as a central metaphor to surface deep longings behind behaviors (e.g., sexual searches, affairs, body shame). Speakers emphasize curiosity and kindness (citing Romans 2:4) as generative forces for change and illustrate the practice of honest questioning with the Elijah/Mount Sinai story (God asking "What are you doing here?").
So in your research you emphasize the importance of curiosity over self judgment, which we've covered a little bit of that. So how can someone shift from a mindset of shame to one of self compassion and curiosity? So what are some practical steps?
Well, one example that I love, that I've heard from a couple different people would be the Mirror of Erised from Harry Potter. And if you know that story, Harry Potter is an orphan. And so when he looks into the Mirror of Erised, which is essentially desire spelled backwards, what Harry Potter sees is an image of his parents. So that's his image. When his friend Ron Weasley looks into the Mirror of Erised, what Ron sees is he's like the Quidditch champion. He's the head of the house, he's the king. He's of kind of like a narcissistic high school fantasy. And what you find from Ron's backstory is that his brothers, you know, exceed, excel far beyond him. He kind of feels inferior in a lot of ways. And so part of what the author is doing in that series is to say that the Mirror of Erised is always reflecting back to us, our most ardent longings or wishes. And so I think part of what I would love to invite people into is like, as you look into the mirror of your sexual searches, as you look into the mirror of your mental health problems, what is that mirror reflecting back to you? And why might that image be occurring? So, you know, when you come to a porn search, it's that sense of why has this porn search been so appealing to me since the time I was 15? Or when I think back to the affair that I've been in or that I was in, why was it that this type of relational archetype was so appealing, appealing to me? Or when I think about, you know, the self loathing, whether it's unwanted behaviors, mental health, body shame issues, to really get curious about, why is it that I'm drawn to this particular thing or what is it that I'm trying to overcome? And so I think curiosity, as we've, you know, put before, is just so much more generative than some level of condemnation. So I think of like Romans 2, 4, like, do you not know that it is the kindness of God that leads to change? Not self hatred, not willpower, not condemnation, but it's really kindness. But then the next phrase, why do you treat the kindness of God with contempt? And so most of us do not engage our problems, our difficulties with kindness. And I think if we did, it would really change the Trajectory of our life.
Yeah, I think in some ways, this question is answering itself. It is that curiosity, that willingness to ask questions. And you. You said it also about so many times in the Bible when God shows up, he's asked. He's not telling people something, he's asking them questions. You know, I just got to do a little teaching in an adult Sunday school class on Elijah and that beautiful story where he goes to Mount Sinai to meet with God, which in that story means he probably traveled over 200 miles in a day and age. Like, how long did that take him just so he could get to this place where he believed he could meet with God? And then God goes through this whole thing with him of the windstorm and a firestorm and an earthquake, and he's not in any of those. And then there's this gentle whisper. It's the voice of God. So there's this huge, long drama getting to this point. It's like, man, whatever God wants to say next is probably really a big deal. And then what he does is he repeats a question he's already asked Elijah. He asks him again, like, Elijah, what are you doing here? And I see it as like he's really trying to help Elijah finally see his own motives, the lies that he's listening to. And it underscores for me how important that willingness to ask a hard question and actually give a really honest answer in the presence of God, in the presence of community, of really seeing it, how important that is. And so I think, yeah, that's just what stood out to me, is that willingness to be curious and ask a really honest question and to give a really honest answer. How transforming that can be.
Yeah. And just back to the first question that you all asked me with regard to, you know, why this is, and God is capable of doing miracles. But that 200 miles is maddening, Nick, of just like 200 miles to answer a question. And I think there's so much in that journey of what transpires over the. That duration of time and in our own journey. And I think that's what God is deeply committed to, is asking those questions to us. So such a good insight.
