A hosted conversation (Ashley, Speaker B, Nick Stumbo) about coercive control in relationships. Speaker B distinguishes a single bad day from a destructive relationship and defines coercive control as a recurring pattern that isolates, minimizes, denies, blames, and strips partner personhood. The chunk gives concrete escalation examples (financial micromanagement, life-tracking apps, gym/isolation control, surveillance cameras, and disabling vehicles) and discusses why victims often feel trapped and disbelieved. The conversation also links coercive mindsets to entitlement and contrasts them with Christlike surrender (as discussed by Nick Stumbo).
Chapters
Foreign. Well, I know that our listeners and me are going to want you to go over some of the common signs of abuse, both obvious and subtle, that you are seeing in your work. And I know you know, whether obvious, subtle, covert, over, like, how do you describe that and what are some of those signs?
Yeah. So I'm going to set a difference between a bad day and a destructive relationship. So all relationships fall into kind of one of three categories. And these I'm taking from Leslie Vernick's the Emotionally Destructive Marriage, because I think she languages it so well. One is disappointing, another is difficult. And then we have destructive, disappointing and difficult. I want on the couch across from me in my office every day, all day. We can help those relationships. Right. That is the perfect place for couples counseling. Destructive is a whole other matter. And it's not just a one time you have upset somebody. We can all be terrible on a given day. I can say something unkind. I could do something unkind, but it's what I do with the unkind and how often I do it and where I do the unkinds at. So coercive control is a pattern of behavior. It's a pattern of isolating, minimizing, denying, blaming, taking away again that personhood of the partner. So it's more than I had a bad day. So if I were to walk up to, let's say, you, Ashley, and step on your foot, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. You know, even if I did it on purpose, because I'm just feeling icky that day, and I'm like, what am I doing? What is wrong with me? Right? There's that conviction. There's guilt. Guilt is a beautiful emotion that is meant to move us to action, which is, Ashley, I am so sorry. I should never have stepped on your foot. And what I don't do, again, this is repentance and is step on your foot. Right? And I certainly don't do it purposefully. Now, if I'm continually stepping on your foot and saying, oh, I'm so sorry, you know, Ashley, I just didn't see you. Just didn't see you, you know, and then I go, step on Nick's foot, y' all are going to be like, I don't think you're nice, and I don't think that's a real sorry. Right. So we're looking now at a pattern of me saying, oh, but I didn't mean to. You know, I know I said that awful thing about you, but it was a joke. I'm just kidding. And then you're like, but where are you? Like, that didn't sound very kidding. And maybe it's like, you know, you just can't handle the finances. You know, you. You know, I know that you were a accounting major and we're a CPA before we got married, but, you know, I just don't think you do numbers well. And so I'm going to take it over. You know, I'm the head of the household. I'm going to take that over, and I'm going to have, you know, you don't need to see it, sweetheart. You don't need to see it. And then the next thing you know, you're like, well, could I have a look at the finances? No, you. Here's the $50 for groceries. This is all you need. You know, in fact, I'm going to need to see the receipt when you get home to make sure you didn't go over 50. Why is it 51? Yeah. I'm just going to have to give you cash because I just can't trust you. I understand that. You said that milk went up. I mean, I don't know. Have you been to the grocery store lately? Everything's going up. But these are the things that we see. And it starts off as a wide funnel where the control is not as obvious, or it's like, hey, babe, I put you on my life360. I just want to make sure you get places safe. Yeah. And then you notice that they're like, hey, I noticed you were at Planet Fitness a long time. Hashtag not sponsored by Planet Fitness, by the way. They're great. I love them as a van lifer, but, you know, you look at that and, like, well, you were there an extra 10 minutes. Were you talking to somebody? You know, I'm just gonna have to go with you. In fact, let me put in a home gym. I'm gonna buy you the worst treadmill known to mankind off of Amazon, and you can use that. And. And that's. You're noticing that funnel. Right. I'm gonna go with you to the gym. In fact, now you can't go to the gym. Right. We're isolating. We're controlling. We're getting angry, we're making accusations. And it starts off subtle because that, to somebody might sound like love. Well, you want to make sure I'm safe and I'm getting home safe and that, you know, where I am if I get in a wreck. And look, if you have your partner's location, I Am not saying that you're doing something terrible. It's what you're doing with the location that could be good or not so good. And we see it then escalate until you're like, I'm not allowed to leave the house. There are cameras around. And these are things I've heard from clients. There are cameras everywhere. I can't even pick up the phone. Electronic tracking means that I'm not going to go into because I don't like to help people crime. But electronic tracking means where they know where their partner is and all their text messages and all kinds of things I've seen. And up to disabling vehicles so they can't leave the house without the spouse's permission. Like, I've seen people take batteries out of vehicles so that their spouse cannot travel anywhere. They can't leave, they can't escape. And that is absolute wickedness. And that's way more than just being a protective spouse.
Yeah, I was feeling a little like, hot and triggered, but like in a I want to fight for my people kind of way. Because the first example you gave, and some of the others, actually some of the others too, but the first one you gave was so sticky. Specific to a, A dear friend of mine that, that progression of, okay, well, you're a dollar over. Okay, well, just, just that like, ah, I am a prisoner in my own house, in marriage. And it's so real. And I think this kind of emphasizes why it's hard for people in these kind of relationships to, to try to explain what's going on. Because like you said, one isolated thing, you're like, like me. I would love if my husband controlled the finances and just told me what to spend and I didn't have to sit down with the books each month. And you know that it's not about that one behavior. It's the pattern. And it can be so hard. And there, there's all these, you know, courses and books of like, okay, if he's so great, why do I feel so bad? And this golden boy kind of Persona and it's. And they feel trapped because the moment they try to start explaining it, they sound like a crazy person.
Like, oh, yeah, because it's, it's.
You can't unpack the whole pattern in history and all the nuances.
Yeah. I think the way I've seen it show up a lot in men's groups as I lead them is when I hear an attitude of, of a guy kind of. And I'm not saying this is only to guys I Think a woman could be in this category too. But, you know, my experiences with working with men in groups, when it's kind of coming across as these are my rights, like, this is my right as the head of the home, that you must respect me. And if you don't, then it's my right to treat you a certain way or diminish. Well, it's my right to sex. And therefore, in my rights, these are the things I can demand or expect of you. And as soon as that kind of language, they might not even be using the word rights, but it's that attitude of, like, I am owed or deserved these things, and if I don't get them now, that's your fault, not mine. That's an attitude just like, whoo, there's a lot of danger there. And I think it reveals some mindsets that really do lead to coercive control, to abusiveness in a relationship. And. And I think if we're aware of that, because all of us can have some of that attitude to some degree, right? Like, well, I deserve this, and if I don't get what I deserve, then I'm going to find a way to get it. That really, I kind of think reeks of selfishness, of self centeredness, of sinfulness. And it's the very reason, I think, that when we hear Christ described, it says he gave up his rights. He didn't hold on to his rights as God, but he came and served and lived as one of us. And if we're seeking to honor God, to be Christlike in our life, a lot of that is surrendering our rights. And that doesn't mean becoming a doormat. That doesn't mean letting anyone do anything they want. But it means that my perspective becomes not about what I am owed, what I deserve, but instead of what can I give in honoring of Christ and others? And so I think in relationships, that's one of the areas I see it coming up and that we really have to guard against.
