This is a podcast-style YouTube conversation (May 2020) hosted by Nick Stumbo with Rodney and another participant, examining why pastors resist admitting their congregation struggles (specifically sexual addiction and related struggles). The speakers identify multiple causes: pastoral pride and identity tied to perceived success, fear of admitting failure, lack of clarity about how to respond, and an evangelical tendency toward a misconstrued ‘Jesus-is-enough’ model that enables spiritual bypass. They argue for a more holistic approach that combines spiritual practices with community, mentoring, and appropriate clinical resources to support transformation beyond a weekly worship service.
For Rodney, I don't need Jesus. I mean, I need Jesus, but I also need a mechanic when my car breaks down and I need a doctor when my body's.
Exactly.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah. I think what we're trying to do on this podcast and in a lot of ways as a ministry, is help people change that paradigm, help people think differently about God and sexuality and how it integrates with our faith and that this isn't some left field, you know, out of bounds topic. This is kind of the core of who we are and how God made us. And so that's the point of trying to bust this myth. So let's keep leaning into that. Rodney, why do you think it's so hard for pastors and leaders to admit that sexual addiction might be present in their church? Like, what keeps them from kind of embracing the reality that, no, this might be my church and I need to do something about it?
Well, you know, I think it could be of multiple reasons. I think one of them just is the fact of maybe in our church we're emotionally based. And so there's a lot of sense of we've got the victory and we're a spirit filled church. And so, you know, we call people forward and pray for them. So therefore, you know, we've, you know, we've dealt with it all we know to do, so there must not be an issue. And I think probably as well as maybe again, not knowing what to do if someone says, I've been to the altar, I prayed, I'm confessing, but I'm not transforming. Does the leader know what to do? And would they be okay with embracing some of the clinical research that's out there with the biblical truth and saying, hey, both of these are spiritual and both of these can help people transform. And so I think that's a piece, Nick, maybe why pastors have a hard time maybe admitting that that's a real issue just because, again, they don't really have clarity of what to do, to walk somebody through toward healing on either side of that.
Yeah, I think too, that if your church is struggling as a pastor, whether this is right or not, there is this feeling of I have to claim responsibility for what's going on in my church, that if my people are struggling, then that's on me somehow. I'm not either talking about it enough or giving enough tools or, and let's be honest, like, I mean this. I'll just speak from my experience. I struggled with pride consistently every day of being a pastor. That's just the world, I felt like I had to fight every single day. And so the fact that I'd have to own, well, I'm a part of maybe creating the culture where people can't address this in my church, that's really hard for a pastor to do.
It feels like admitting failure.
That's 100%. And I think that that's really what it gets to, is that if I am admitting that my church is struggling or people in my church are struggling with this area, I have somehow failed as a pastor and man, especially as a pastor, I felt like my identity was so wrapped up in the mission or the calling or the role of pastor, to admit failure meant that somehow I was devaluing my value in the Lord's eyes or my ministry or my call.
Yeah, I so agree with what you guys are saying that we feel like to admit there's these huge issues might be saying my preaching's not good enough or our discipleship isn't good enough, our programs aren't good enough. And that's a hard pill to swallow. But I think a lot of it is rooted in a bigger context. When you look at the majority of churches we work with, and probably of people listening to this podcast come out of the evangelical tradition. And the evangelical tradition was really born out of the experience of faith in Christ that Jesus is enough for all that I need. And we wrote songs about it, that all you need is Jesus, and Jesus is all the world needs. And. And there is absolute truth to that, that for our salvation and for our life eternal with God, Jesus is the only answer to find salvation. It's not our works, it's not good deeds, it's not doing the right things. It is Jesus. But unfortunately, in much of evangelicalism, we've adopted that message to mean Jesus is enough for whatever. The question is, all I need is Jesus. And that's simply not true. You know, we listened to an interview Josh McDowell gave recently where he said it real plainly. He said, jesus is not enough. And he said, I know that sounds like heresy, but if Jesus was enough for all of my problems and anything I need, all I do is get more Jesus. Then why does the New Testament over 50 times instruct us to do things with one another, to love one another, to carry one another's burdens, to pray with one another, confess to one another? He said, we need other people. We need people that walk into our lives, people that are mentors and teachers and friends and support and says, yes, Jesus is a critical component, but there's more than Just praying harder to Jesus and all my problems get fixed. But unfortunately, I think if we look at the model of our churches and what you were saying, Rodney, about the come to the altar and confess it, surrender and get this new filling of the spirit and of Jesus, we're still kind of in that model of if I'm struggling with something, I just get more Jesus. But the way we've embraced that is that it's just a personal thing where really more of Jesus comes through, more community and more support and more help and more understanding what's going on inside side, not just praying a prayer and suddenly I'm miraculously fixed.
Well, and that's cleaner, let's be honest. Like, that's the cleaner way to do it. Like, if I could just go to the altar and get healed.
Right, right. And I think this is where, like, for Rodney, I don't need Jesus. I mean, I need Jesus, but I also need a mechanic when my car breaks down and I need a doctor when my body's.
Exactly.
Yeah, that's right.
You understand what I'm saying? So I think this is where we've hijacked spirituality. And now what it becomes is what we call, what I would call, or I've heard, called spiritual bypass. So instead of just saying we're wired relationally, made in the image of the Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit, we're made for openness and honesty and sharing our struggles. But somehow, some way our faith has seen, like you just need a quick prayer or quote this promise rather than to be open and honest and share and get you to the right people and resources that can help you. So I think spiritual bypass is a piece of that, where we just want people to look good but don't tell us what's really going on underneath the surface. You know what I mean? Right. And I think exactly what you're saying. I agree with Josh McDowell. Jesus isn't enough. That's why he created the world and plants for us to eat. And we're all connected here. We all need each other. And I think if you don't have that holistic view, then it puts a lot of pressure on everything being taken care of for 1 hour and 15 minutes on Sunday in a church service.
Yeah, right, yeah.
And then that becomes the spiritual bypass. Rather than calling us to relationships where we open up our lives and say, hey, things aren't going well, whether that's my sexuality or traumatic experience or you fill in the blank, that's, I find, where more people transform. And so part of it is just, you know, not putting all of our eggs in the weekend service basket, thinking this is what church is.
Yeah.
And I know that may step on some toes, and I know that's kind of the economic driving force for a lot of Western church, but I found the reality of what helps people transform is when they turn the chairs face to face and open up their lives and begin to integrate truth into what's really going on in their life. So good.
