In this conversation, Nick Stumbo and Speaker B discuss the necessity of adopting an "all‑in" mindset in recovery from sexual addiction, contrasting it with the tendency to do only the bare minimum to please others. They explore how fear and the desire for safety keep people from taking the risky, transformative steps needed for lasting change, using the biblical story of Peter walking on water as an illustration of letting go of the familiar and trusting God. The dialogue introduces Michael Dye’s Faster Relapse Awareness Scale (FASTER), explaining that relapse is a gradual process that typically unfolds over 2.5 to 6 weeks, and emphasizes the importance of recognizing early warning signs rather than assuming a sudden drop from restoration to relapse. Finally, they stress that true recovery is sustained by supportive relationships and community—people who remain present even when setbacks occur—rather than by fleeting sexual euphoria, framing the whole journey within a spiritual context of moving toward God versus relying on self‑sufficiency.
Chapters
Yet when I think of how this mindset of, you know, bringing less to recovery than we did to the addiction, what the phrase that comes to mind is doing the bare minimum.
Yeah.
And I know at the beginning of my own recovery, that's kind of what I wanted to do. The internal question was like, what's the bare minimum I have to do to make my wife happy, to make my counselor happy? Like, I don't— and there's something in us that I think, as I look back, it was fear. I was afraid that I couldn't do the work, or the person that said, "Change is hard," or, "It's too hard," or, "I don't know if I can do it." And so if I only invest the bare minimum, I'm also only risking the bare minimum. But it's a bit like saying, "What's the bare minimum I can invest to go skydiving?" It's like the question doesn't even make sense, 'cause it's like, well, either you're going to jump out of the plane or you're not. And if you're not willing to jump, you're not skydiving. So there is, and we encourage people, there's kind of this all-in mindset of, I'm going to let go of what I know and what I'm protecting and what I think I know or what I would like to do. And I'm just going to trust the process. I'm going to follow the group material. I'm going to do it all because I'm looking to change my life. And that's an all-in kind of approach. It also makes me think of the story of Peter in the Gospels when Jesus calls him out of the boat. And, you know, he says the water was choppy and there was fear. I'm sure if he'd have, you know, clung on to the railing of that boat, he would never have walked towards Jesus. And some of us are doing that in our addiction. Like, we both want Jesus to call us to risk and change, but we got a firm grip on the boat railing of like, can I really let go of this way of life? Can I really change? Do I, do I really want— even the person that said I'm apathetic, do I actually want to change? Yeah, we have to address some of that and go, you know what, if that's where I'm at, it's probably not going to happen. I'm probably not going to jump. I'm not going to skydive. Because I'm only doing what keeps me safe and comfortable, and that's not the zone where change happens. Back to what our good friend Michael Dye says, risk is change, risk is change is fear, and it all goes together. And we've got to be willing to face those things if we're actually going to change in a deep way.
And your example of Peter is really good because when you talk to young Christians, they're confused with Peter's saying to Jesus, if that's you, call me out of the boat. But what if that wasn't Jesus? What, what's the enemy going to do for us? Yeah, we want you out of the boat. Yeah, and then you drown.
Drown.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and so we fear what we don't know. We've learned to survive what we do know. So, so these these people who are coming to us in our small groups, uh, or listening to our podcasts, or, or are actually involved with the counseling, they have to be willing to be all in on change. But you have to challenge that again, that internal narrative. So we used something that Michael had created called the Faster Relapse Awareness Scale. And I run into clients all the time who think, if I'm only in forgetting priorities or I'm only in anxiety, I'm not so bad.
I'm just going to hang out here on this performance scale.
Yeah. They think that there is a big difference between those two and relapse. But the truth is, the entire Faster Scale is about us moving away from God and trusting our ability to navigate these situations and circumstances that we can survive at for a while.
Yeah.
But eventually is going to crush us. And so it is In the, in the faster scale, it's about, am I moving toward God, having the attitude and the actions that are reflected in restoration or recovery? Or am I going down the faster scale because I am still trying to say, I can do this without you, God? I'm leaning on myself to get through this. And, and so, uh, everyone tells us when we first start talking to them about the FASTER scale, they think they can go from restoration to relapse instantly. And the truth is, Michael's research showed that it was 2.5 or 3 weeks, up to 6 weeks that it takes to actually go down the scale. So we have— we're not inwardly aware of what's actually happening in ourselves.
How much we've run through those.
Yeah. Yeah. And so what we have to do is help people know that this healing process is not a quick fix, but it is rewarding. But the reward is not going to be that euphoria of the the sexual climax for men or women caught in sexual addiction. It's the gift of relationships.
Yeah, yeah.
That there are people who are interested in your recovery and are supporting you in your recovery. And even when you fail, they're still there. They haven't rejected you. They haven't abandoned you. You're not being criticized.
