Everyone has Chutzpah - How to succeed in life with what you have = Mason Harris

Was replying an act of chutzpah? That's interesting. For some people it might be. It depends where you are on this scale of chutzpah. Some people are further along or able to do certain things. For me to reply to you is natural, just as it was natural for you to reach out to me, whereas a lot of people might not have because they're worried about being rejected or ignored.

Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Zavaronis Show. My name is Nir Zavaro and I'm— today I think I'm having the best episode we've ever had. I think so. You know, sometimes you meet people along the way and sometimes you reach out to them, and this is the case. I've been seeing some posts and I was intrigued, interested. I started reading and looking and I said, you know what, I need to talk to this guy. I would love to hear his thoughts about some things. And he's written a book named Chutzpah. And I said, what? We have to talk. So Mason Harris, thank you so much for replying to my messages. Was that a chutzpah thing?

Well, Nir, first of all, thank you for having me. And by telling me that I might be the most interesting guest you've ever had puts a lot of pressure on. I tell you right now, I'm sweating from the forehead.

I do it to every guest.

That's what I'm hoping you do, because it's a good motivator. Was replying an act of chutzpah? That's interesting. For some people it might be. It depends where you are on this scale of chutzpah. Some people are further along or able to do certain things. For me to reply to you is natural, just as it was natural for you to reach out to me, whereas a lot of people might not have because They're worried about being rejected or ignored.

Interesting. Wait, we need to explain maybe 2 things. So the first thing I'm going to ask is if you would give us a 60-second or so elevator pitch, who you are, what you do, your background, and after that, what is chutzpah?

Sure. 60-second elevator pitch. Got to be quick. I'm a speaker. I'm an author. I have— I'm an entrepreneur. I founded companies. I've sold everything. All I work on right now is the book and the presentations because I'm at a stage in my career where I feel I can truly impact people and help some people change their lives if that's a pattern, if that's a place they want to go. So that's the most fun for me at the moment. The book that I've just written, and by the way, I'll show you the COVID This is one of 2 copies that exist. It's called The Chutzpah Advantage, and it's go bigger, be bolder, and do better, which for me is what Chutzpah is about. Can you change your life in a way that's positive? As far as how I got into it, very quickly, the pandemic impacted us all worldwide, some people in different ways than others. In my case, as a speaker, there were no live speaking engagements, which is what I love, and I decided to finally take the ideas and the model that I built and been speaking about and put it in book form. So that I wouldn't waste my— what I hoped was going to be 6 months off the road, but has become more than a year off the road. And that's the result. The result is the book, which is actually due on April 12th.

So first of all, let me know, are you going to do an audio version?

Actually, I'm thinking of it. I've got to look at that next. The first step is to get the Kindle version out and the other electronic versions, the softcover which I've shown you. From there I might do a hardcover, but audiobook is definitely up there on my think very carefully about doing this and then figure out which, uh, if Tom Cruise might be available to read my book, for example.

No, no. So what I wanted to say is I would love to hear you doing the book, you know. Okay. So for me it's difficult doing my books and reading them is that my accent is a bit more Let's say it's not as easy to understand in some points, in some cases, but for you it sounds amazing. And I think I would love to do— I run with books, so I listen to books while running, and I have a feeling your book will do very well. Your sound is very good. It is very nice.

I believe the model is valuable. There are a lot of takeaways, a lot of stories, and it goes from funny to Wow, that's, that's a hard thing to be reading, and I can't imagine what it was writing about that. There are people we know from, um, business, from our lives that have chutzpah. There are different ways to use chutzpah, so it's going to be a fun discussion today. And by the way, as far as your accent, I'm going to invite you to do the Hebrew version of the audiobook, so this way nobody will know you have an accent.

Done. I'd be amazing doing these things. So most people that are listening now might think that we prepped or something, but I wanted to do a very casual session, more discussion. And basically, this is the first time we're actually speaking, which is great. What was your first business, by the way?

Let's see. Out of— well, my first business, I guess, as an 8-year-old, I used to sell magazine subscriptions door to door in the neighborhood. I don't know how I got into that, but the opportunity to make a little spending money was there. I grew up, by the way, in New York City in Queens, one of the 5 boroughs. My parents are immigrants from Eastern Europe, so for me, the U.S. was always the land of opportunity, not the land of entitlement. You got what you worked for. Education was a big separator. If you were able to get educated, that gave you a distinct advantage over others, although a lot of people without the formal education have done extremely well here as well. And that was an interesting thing for me to see. So there was the formal education and there was the street education.

My agency is called Streetwise, and I remember a decade and a half ago, even more, I was sitting at home and looking at URL websites and I saw Streetwise and I said, I'll buy it. I have no idea why, but it suits my style. And since, I think we used it for several things before we went into the agency and built it.

I think Streetwise is catchy. It makes me think streetwise, street smart. And sometimes I'll take those, the streetwise person, Over the educated person because the streetwise person has experienced, has done it, has survived it, moved beyond it. Whereas, you know, thinking about my education, I have an MBA and I have learned considerably more post-MBA just working with clients, with customers especially, about what businesses And what works and how to impact people's lives in a positive way.

It's interesting you're saying that. Did you teach somewhere?

Actually, yes. In graduate school, I taught the entry-level marketing class to undergrads at the University of Buffalo. Wow.

The reason why I'm asking, for the past 7 years I was teaching in one of the main colleges in Israel about marketing and brand management, and also in several other schools about marketing, mainly strategy, and so on. And this year I decided I'm out. I think especially during COVID the academy didn't adapt. And as people who are supposed to be scholars and teachers and whatever, we— the fact that we weren't adapting to the platform, to the, the curriculum, whatever. It's been something that was on my mind for the last 2 or 3 years, but I think after this semester I said, I'm sorry, I'm out. I don't think we're serving the students in the right way. We can do it differently. And by the way, they can learn that on YouTube, they can do it on Udemy, or I know Coursera just IPO'd, I saw. And there's so many different things, and, um, What is your take on academy?

Well, it's interesting listening to you speak and getting a sense of your background. And again, as you said, first time we've spoken is today. And having reviewed your profile as well on LinkedIn and learning a bit about your successes, you're a teacher in business. You're a teacher. You're teaching clients how to maximize their value. You're showing them that their brand can be differentiated from their competitors' brands in ways. You're helping them build a memorable brand. That's teaching. As well, as a leader, we teach. And by teach, I mean we motivate. We try and direct activities at some level while still inspiring creativity and innovation from our colleagues, from our employees. To me, that's part of teaching too.

I agree. Do you think people need to go to an Ivy League today, or is that just about the networking?

Uh, I think if you can get into an Ivy League school and get that graduate degree because of the networking, it gives you a leap forward in getting your calls answered, should you even have the chutzpah to make those calls. the fortitude to make those calls. There's nothing automatic about an Ivy League degree, but it will open doors if you knock on those doors. If you're waiting for people to just come calling you, it's probably not going to happen. That's the advantage of the Ivy Leagues, but you pay a premium for that too.

You pay a premium for the network.

Yes, you pay a premium in that education for that network.

The most expensive friends you'll ever have. Right.

Yeah, possibly. We're excluding, of course, divorce right now. Right. Because that can get expensive. And unfortunately, we'll do another episode. I've been married 30 years, so I can't say that I've experienced that.

But it's, it's, you know, if you look at street smarts and people who today can't afford education, they want to do it in a different way. And I think Digital platforms offer almost any class and they can teach you almost anything. If you have the audacity or the chutzpah, or if you have the set of— the right set of skills, the streetwise, you can build your way. You can know the right people, you can network. Do you think that chutzpah is a, is a one-off, or is it the set of skills? Is it a way of living? What do you— what did you put in your book as a—

That's a great question, and I'm going to do something, um, that might seem as avoidance, but it isn't. How would you define chutzpah? And then I will go into the research and share some of the interviews, what I've learned about chutzpah. But how would you define it, Nir?

In my opinion, it is a lot about putting yourself out there Oh, and knowing that the outcome might not be what I wanted. So for example, um, I'm trying to think of a good example actually. Oh, you know what, 2014 I think it was, there was the, um, Olympics, the Winter Olympics. Okay, so it's interesting, uh, in Israel they got the rights for the Summer Olympics, but they had to also broadcast the Winter Olympics. No one watches the Winter Olympics here. For years I worked in snowboard companies here in Israel, so I was helping the sports channel find the right talents to broadcast certain things. And they said, how can we say thank you? What would you like? Would you like to broadcast some of the snowboarding competitions? And I said, no, I'm, I'm out of the game. Those people were better than me, more professional. I love motor racing, so I don't know what to tell you. And they say, okay, if you have anything I said, you know what, I will do, uh, commentate the bobsleigh, the luge, the skeleton, you know, all the competitions. And they said— there's 5 producers, okay, we only have one sports channel— and they look at me and they say, okay, what do you know about all these things? And I said, oh, absolutely nothing, but in 3 weeks I will be the best. And I could say I would be the best, you know what, because till this day— and I did 2 Olympics, I am still the only one. By definition, I am the best. So for me, chutzpah was putting yourself out there and saying, oh, I don't know, give me the chance, I will prove. And in order to make chutzpah work, I also had to put in the time and the work and the ethics. And for 3 weeks, I, I don't think I left the house so much except for getting coffee. And reading, but they put a bet on me and that paid well for them.

Yeah, so you put yourself in a position for them to put the bet on you. You mentioned putting yourself out there knowing that sometimes you're not going to have the response or success you want. So you have action, you have a realization that it's an uphill battle frequently that we face, and we face rejection. People who have trouble with rejection typically avoid a scenario like you mentioned and have less chutzpah. We all have some of it at some point in our lives. We all do things that maybe stretch us beyond our natural boundaries where we're comfortable. Um, uh, let's, let's try something different. I don't know if you have a pad and paper, but certainly our viewers should consider this. If you do, Take a piece of paper and draw a large circle. Oh good, you'll be able to show the audience as we move along. And draw a large circle, uh, on this piece of paper. Now, I'm pretty sure that everybody who's watching this likes pizza because I don't know anybody who doesn't like pizza. So let's cut this circle into 8 slices.

By the way, you know what's one of the worst things that happened to me during COVID Is in front of my house, they opened a pizza place called Brooklyn, and then my diet just disappeared. I lost like 10 kilograms, and then it slowly came back.

So it's the COVID 20?

No, it's the weight control. Damn good pizza.

Okay, well, I'm glad then that this example will resonate with you, because that's what's important. We want to make sure that it impacts you properly. Now, in each of the slices, we're going to take one of the letters of chutzpah. So start at the top. C-H-U-T-Z—

C-H-U-T-Z-P-A-H.

8 slices, 8 letters. Each of these letters in the model becomes more memorable because it's going to help us understand and remember the behavior. And in the book, each of the letters also has stories connected to it. Now, if you're exhibiting chutzpah, you're encompassing a great portion of that pizza. That's how we gain weight, by the way, because we've got too much on the plate. You had asked also, and this is a really good question, is chutzpah a one-off or is chutzpah a single behavior? In my research, I found that the definition of chutzpah ranged. Some people felt, for example, it was extremely negative. Some people felt it had a lot of positive value to it. It ranged from audacity to rude. Nobody wants to be rude, but we don't mind being a bit audacious. We don't mind being a bit of a go-getter. But I don't want to come off as rude to anybody, but I want people to know that I'm willing to go out on a limb for something that I feel strongly about. Hopefully our listeners as well. So I see chutzpah as a skill set. And as most skill sets, you can use it for good or for bad, for constructive or destructive. Good example, and this is also in the book. Somebody who's good at math might decide, I'm looking at a career, I'm going to take some courses in computer programming. And they learn all the ins and outs of programming. They spend a couple of years making their skills even better. And when they graduate, they can go on and write applications for business to make us all more productive. They can write applications for accounting, for tracking quality. They can do healthcare. They can do algorithms that look at the results of testing as we go out. Or that same skill set can be used to create ransomware, to steal from people, to in essence destroy lives and companies because their sole purpose is to get something for themselves. Chutzpah is like that. And there's actually, in addition to the 8 behaviors of chutzpah, I've identified 6 types of chutzpah that are out there. The most destructive is self-serving chutzpah. That's where I don't care what I say, truthful or not, I'm going to create a plan that enriches me at the expense of others. That is an example of destructive chutzpah. Okay, but that's, that's later. Let's get back to the things you said. Putting yourself out there. If we start with the C at the top of the chutzpah model, chutzpah begins when we do something. We seize the day. We seize the moment. We are active. We are proactive, actually. The Latin term is carpe diem. You might be familiar with it. Seize the day, seize the moment. Nothing happens if we sit back. We can be filled with great ideas, but if we don't share them, if we don't act on them, there is no chutzpah. It's just us sitting and daydreaming and thinking, boy, my life would be so much better if I actually introduced this. You know, maybe I'll get to it another day. So carpe diem belongs in that first slice of pizza for chutzpah. You spoke about, in essence, carpe diem, putting yourself out there, reaching out to people. So right away that fits. Now you also mentioned that you have to be willing to accept that people may reject your ideas. Or that it won't succeed. There are 2 of these behaviors that come into play. I'm going to go to the first H that's right next to the carpe diem, and I'm going to say that H stands for something that you and I, and probably all of our listeners, know, be it in our personal lives or in business. We have an idea, we share it with certain people. We know some people will be supportive and thoughtful And they'll say, oh, I like that, but let's think about this. And there are a category of people who are just going to say, you know, why are you wasting your time? It'll never work. Or, aren't you busy with something else? You're not really prioritizing. You're getting— you're moving on to something you shouldn't be going. Or, I don't think it's a good idea. Somebody else is already doing it. So there's a category of people who are going to Tell you why what you're doing is a waste of time and will not work. The skill that you need here is how to handle objections. That's the H, handling objections. If you're in sales, and by the way, we're all in sales even if that's not our title, you know that people are going to object. Sorry?

No, I said I completely agree with that assumption that we're all salespeople all the time.

Good. So people are going to object to whatever it is they naturally hear. We're naturally defensive when people come to us and we feel we're being sold to. So a good salesperson not only learns to handle the objections but also realizes by anticipating those objections in advance, they can be handled before they even come up. As an example, we know price is going to be an objection very often with the services or products that we sell. So rather than wait for somebody to talk about price, our questions and understanding of the client's need involves creating value, so price becomes secondary. That's also part of handling objections. The anticipation, the resolving them before they even come up in some cases. And we sometimes learn what's going to be coming up down the road as an objection because of the questioning that we do beforehand, and we're prepared for it and can attack it or defray it by speaking about it.

Here's a question about what you're saying, and I completely agree 100% that We are all salespeople all the time. On a date, trying to get something, asking. I used to do a lot of workshops about sales and I would tell people the best salespeople are kids, right? 5-year-olds telling their parents, buy me, buy me, buy me, buy me, buy me, buy me. They'll nag them until they get what they want. The sale is done. So it might not be the best way to articulate what you want. Except for buy me, buy me, buy me. But if you look at it on a chutzpah level, a lot of people say, I hate salespeople. They're very rude. But sometimes you need to be a bit out there to get the deal, right? You can see it a lot with people saying how they got married, right?

And it's a great point as well. We don't like necessarily being sold, but we like people to provide solutions to our problems. So great example, we're both on LinkedIn. That's how we met. If you reach out to somebody because you think, oh, this person is a prospect, and as soon as they connect, you immediately follow up with, hey, I need 15 minutes of your time because I have a service and I think I can find you the leads that will help you grow your business. And you're thinking to yourself, my keyboard is still warm from having said yes or accepting, and now I'm being sold to. I don't want that. If the approach rather is, hey, thank you for connecting. I work in this field. If it's okay, I'll stay in touch with you, and as I find things that might be of interest to you, would it be okay to send you along links to other articles, things I've written or things that might appeal to you? Chances are I'll say yes. Develop that relationship. You're jumping right in. I'm thinking this is a transaction, and I don't need a transactional relationship right now to solve my problems. My problems require real solutions, and you're not convincing me you're the person to do that. So I think that's what you mean by buy, buy, buy, buy, buy.

Yeah. So, um, in terms of— we said this is a discussion, so here's a quick question for you. Because I'm still contemplating what is the right way to go about it. So I got a message a couple of days ago on LinkedIn, like we all do, being bombarded by bots or whatever. Um, hello, I'm the CEO of this and that company. We specialize in lead generation for companies like yourself. I would love to show you what we do, and of course Success-based. You didn't get the right leads, you don't need to pay. Now my company specializes in marketing and sales, and it seems kind of strange when they reach out to us. I assume it's just an automated message that— and I'm really thinking about replying, oh, I would love to talk. And Especially success-based, and then either we get leads, awesome, and if not, telling them, I don't think you're going at this the right way. You don't— I mean, I'm your competitor, by the way.

Well, if they're reaching out to you right away, that's opening a different type of door than you're reaching out to them. So you reach out to somebody who doesn't know you, they might give you the consideration of responding positively and accepting your connect response. They will probably have looked at your work, so they may have an interest. By the same token, some will object to, oh my God, I'm in sales mode right away. That wasn't why I said yes. I said yes to network, to learn, because I was intrigued by this guy and his company or this woman and her company. But this isn't what I was counting on.

So would you send them a message? They're competition of some sort, even though I looked and they don't do exactly— I have a feeling they'll be embarrassed if I reply and say, oh, I would love to talk.

My thought is, I happen to like the I would love to talk because I could always learn from somebody else, including a competitor. My fear And where I would be playing it close to the vest, I think is the expression we'd use, is that they're trying to learn what I'm doing that's different than what they're doing so they can improve their service in selling against me if they truly are a competitor.

I have a feeling they're doing low-quality work, and this is why they automatically targeted companies like mine. And again, I'm not trying to educate anyone, by the way. They might do a good job. So I just thought it might be interesting. I even thought about doing it while documenting it.

Well, where I see them as an opportunity now is if they're doing low-quality work, they should hire you in the background to provide leads for their clients. So you have a new client and you've leveraged that into all of their clients. It's just you're the hidden provider.

So when we talk about chutzpah, would you Also add the fact that people, you and I are now discussing, and we both are trying to see the 3D in a situation. It's not about just someone sending me a message and me saying yes, no. What else is at play, and what else can we get? And do you think chutzpah is also about seeing the opportunity, seeing an angle?

You, and this is again, you don't know the book. I haven't gone through this with you beforehand. You just mentioned opportunity. The U, it's like you're following my model now. We started with carpe diem, seize the moment. Nothing starts until there's activity on your part. It's okay if the activity doesn't work out the way you want, but we'll get to that later. The H, the handling objections. As you share with people, because you want to refine your ideas, you're going to get objections. Some people will stop As soon as the objections begin, they'll say, oh, you know, you're probably right, I'm wasting my time. That's okay, I'll do something else now. I'll get back to work instead of working on this idea I had. So you've got to learn how to handle objections. The next one, the U. You just mentioned opportunity. The U stands for uncovering Need, pain, and opportunity. Now I call it the trifecta of solutions because there is a difference between need and pain. In a transactional sale, I need a new charger for my cell phone because mine broke. I get online or I go to a local electronics store and I buy it. It's a transaction. I need, I find a solution, I buy. The next level, the type of clients we work with, their needs they can easily solve most of the time in a transactional way. But the long-term relationships that we build is about solving issues of pain. So when I say uncovering need, what do you need? Oh, I have that in stock. I can get that right out to you. What do you need? I'm growing so quickly. I need a better senior-level VP of engineering to manage all the others. Well, what happens if you don't get this person? My projects will slow down. I will fall behind my competition. What will this cost you? I'm scared to think about what it will cost me because the person I have in there now is good and I want to keep him. But I need somebody who's stronger, who can stay with our growth. So this is costing me millions in essence. And hiring the wrong person, for example, we know costs a lot of money. That's a pain issue. Somebody who realizes the pain, who may have started out with, you know, I just need a VP of engineering. Once we understand and once that person understands, well, what happens if you make a mistake in hiring someone. What happens if you continue the current process to your competitive balance, your advantage against your competition, and your ability to bring new products to the market? What does that cost you? What does that cost your company? What does it cost your employees if you fall behind? Suddenly, pain evolves. Then it's like, you know, I hadn't thought of it in those terms. And I realized this is more urgent than I ever imagined. How can you help me? So the right executive recruiter is positioned by saying, look, you're in this field. I've worked with these companies and I have a database that allows me to reach out to, enables me to reach out to the following people. So uncovering need, pain, and opportunity. And you mentioned opportunity. Good example. When, um, Uber, one of the examples I use, and there are so many we can both think of, and our listeners, our watchers can think of examples too. When Uber decided, you know, we're going to raise money and we have this ridesharing idea that's going to be technology-based that will connect riders and drivers. And they went out and they were presenting their pitch deck to investors. One of the potential investors hired an expert to take a look at this proposal, which said, we have a multi-billion-dollar valuation that this is going to achieve. They far exceeded it, by the way, but that's their initial pitch deck. Well, the expert, who was a college professor, looked at the industry, looked at the taxis around the world, US but also worldwide, limousine services, Other types of transportation modes, public transportation, private transportation. And they said, you know, the value of the industry is X. They're not going to get 100% of X. That's never going to happen. If they even achieve 50% of X, they're worth— then they'll never achieve what they want. This expert didn't see the opportunity. It takes an entrepreneur. It takes somebody who says that, you know, people won't tell me they need this. People won't tell me that there's pain related to this, but I think that this is a better solution for the group of friends who want to go out and they have to pick a designated driver, but they don't want to pick a designated driver. They all want to have fun and they don't want to have to park in Tel Aviv because it's so difficult to park in Tel Aviv. or New York or Washington or London or Paris. They want to be able to reach out. So that's the third one, uncovering need, pain, or opportunity, the trifecta of solutions. By the way, this whole issue with experts who lead us in the wrong direction is so common in business. We reach out to people and pay them large sums of money, but they don't Have the vision and they don't understand what we're really trying to solve because they default into, well, this is the way it is and I see a solution personally. Well, if I make every business decision based on my personal needs and wants, a lot of people are going to go without things that they want. We have to be able to expand our horizon. That's what the opportunity you just described is about.

Yeah, I think first of all, I think we'll leave the rest of the pizza pie concept for people to read because I think it will take us a couple of hours because I'm thinking about so many different things I want to ask. And you just mentioned about experts and there's all these consultants and I assume you and I both did some consulting along the way. And this year during COVID I decided to stop doing hourly consulting because if I want to educate, I want to teach, I can't spend one-on-one time if it's not going to the mass. It's not worth it. It's not achieving my mission statement or my goal, and I only do very specific things. What I've noticed is a lot of the experts and consultants and all these people try to do exactly what they did in 2019, do exactly the same in 2020. 20, and they haven't adapted or evolved. You know, I do these, um, podcasts on, on a video platform for many reasons, but when I do a workshop or a lecture, I stand up because I understood that the power of giving a workshop, the power of moving forward and backwards, the hand gestures, seeing half a body change the way people perceive. I found out that if I look really close towards the lens really close, 100 to 150 people in the session feel like I'm talking to them. That is something we couldn't do when I know I was standing on stage in front of 500 or 600 people. I couldn't look at all of them at once. And I think when you look at the consultants and all these people, it's about if they have a 3D vision and understanding that what was before won't necessarily be the same, could disappeared could change. And I think it's interesting to see that a lot of them didn't do the adaptations needed, and that's what they were lacking. You know, I think Gary Vaynerchuk spoke a couple of times about why he missed out on Uber, and it's always, I didn't get it, I didn't get it. And Waze, which is a billion-dollar sale, Israeli company. And, and I remember, um, Yossi Vadi is a very famous investor, also said, I, I didn't get it. So, and he said, it doesn't necessarily mean that we'll get everything, right? Some things we don't understand.

Even admitting that, by the way, is part of chutzpah because it says I'm learning, and it fits into humility. But you also said something interesting about this year, how things changed so dramatically. And so many of the answers were based on, hey, this is what worked the last time we had a crisis. Why don't we double down here? Or why don't you furlough people? Let them go. The big word for me, obviously pandemic has been a big word for 2020, but the big word for me was pivot. What people and what businesses were able to say, there is a new reality. We don't know how long it's going to last, but we have to do something different. You and I both know Vern Harnish, the founder of Gazelles, the founder of EO. He has coaches worldwide. And it's funny because I also know a lot of coaches. who threw up their hands during the pandemic because they didn't know what to do or tell their clients and their businesses were suffering. Vern was different. He had, I don't know how many dozens of conferences planned a year in advance around the world. And it hit. I was looking at going to one he was going to have in April. April or May, I don't remember now. COVID hit. Things were being canceled right and left. People were— reasonably afraid to travel, and the lockdown had started. Internationally, travel was becoming so difficult, if even available, and domestically. So almost seems like on a dime, like turning a switch, Vern had his April Gazelles, or actually his Scaling Up Summit online. Same speakers, new speakers, different pricing, and he wasn't going to get the 800 to 1,000 people live that he expected. And he didn't know what this new virtual option was going to do. I believe he ended up with over 2,000 paying clients for that, paying at a lower amount, But he began proving the concept. So that ability to pivot— so when Vern says to me that you have to learn to pivot and our clients have to learn to pivot, I pay a lot of attention because this is somebody who doesn't just tell people what to do, he does it and is successful.

What was the last business you had before you I'm sorry, what was the— what was your last business you sold, you exited before focusing on the book?

Let's see, I'll tell you one of the most fun ones I had. I had an outdoor billboard company, but it was a mobile company. So these were billboards on vehicles. And my approach was billboards, I think, are great out-of-home advertising. And you're in marketing and branding, so you understand this. And I bet a lot of your clients do and the people who are watching as well. So we know the value of being in front of the customer. What appealed to me about this business when I bought it was that a billboard is static. It's on the same place, the same highway, and the same people see it every day. And now you have digital billboards so they can still see different ads, which is great for the billboard provider. But again, as the client, I want to make sure people see my ad, and I know the need and value of repetition for people to drive by it because the first 8 times they may not notice it. The 9th time it's like, huh, you know, I do have some roof issues. Maybe I should call that roofing company. They don't know that they— I haven't heard of them, but they— it's subconscious. It's in their mind because they've been by it. What I liked about the mobile side was We took the ads to the customers. So for example, if it was a jewelry store that was having— with multiple locations that was having a sale, we could go to the different— and jewelry stores, by the way, are very geographically— their customers are geographically based. You'll travel to a jewelry store that you fall in love with. Or a jeweler, but on the whole, you're going to go to a local jeweler. That's why you see so many jewelry stores in malls, or we used to when malls had the level of people attending that they did. But by going into those neighborhoods and people who are of the demographics, the income level, the people who might like what they're offering, and making them aware of the sale by driving through neighborhoods and also at certain times. when they're most likely to be out potentially. We were able to impact business differently. So that was a fun business.

Do you look at— are you still looking actively at other businesses to invest, or are you only focused on the book?

Actually, the book is really one piece of what I'd like to do now. The book is one way to help people. People can read the book, and I honestly believe they're going to walk away with takeaways and say, these stories are good, I can do this, and here are 8 behaviors. I'm not going to work on all 8, but I'm going to start with 1 or, or 2 or 3. And that's for an individual. The other great thing is I believe that you can create a culture of chutzpah in your organization. So I'm not talking about one person thinking, hey, carpe diem, seize the day, share what's going on, nothing happens till I do something. But a culture of people who are saying, I just discovered that this technology is available, what if we merge this technology with our solution? Ideas start flowing, uh, innovation occurs more frequently.

Yeah, I know. By the way, if you look at the brand side in terms of implementing core values and stuff like that, like any other person, I assume when you're trying to implement, uh, um, values or a way of thinking, it's very similar to a habit. The implementation is, I know I need to run every day, but do I do it? And I think It'd be interesting to see how people can implement that idea. And I can give you an example. My employees are allowed to fire a client on the spot. Very kind of you.

Never done. So I think that's great because it creates a stronger relationship. It doesn't bog you and your resources down. with clients that don't appreciate what you're bringing them and are resistant to the growth you can bring them. So that's interesting that you provide that.

The interesting thing is they've never fired a client.

Yeah.

By the way, to the point where we had to sometimes tell them we need to let go.

I have only heard of one other company that does something like that. It's a financial tech company that I'm familiar with where if clients, one, are rude to the people that they're engaging with, and since it's tech, financial tech, it's algorithms that are making the investment decisions, but they still have to have a staff of people who are qualified and certified, that are licensed, but they have to answer questions in regards to this is how the product or services work. I cannot give you advice because the algorithm will make the decisions based on your completing a very extensive profile of what your needs are, short-term, long-term, what your hopes, when you're going to retire, things like that. But when they get rude customers, they can basically say, look, you have 30 days to remove the funds from our platform because we can't work with you. You will probably find a better solution elsewhere. So I like what you're doing. And at first I was listening to the description of this and I realized— in the US, I don't know if they have the organization Best Buy in Israel, but Best Buy is a very large big box store for electronics. And what they found was because they had a great money-back guarantee, 30 days, no questions asked, computers, TVs, but there would always be a big rush of computers Within 30 days of people taking exams in school. College students coming in, putting it on the credit card, using the computers for the month, and returning it right afterwards. And it was very costly to them. They wanted to be— to provide tremendous customer service, but that policy was leading to poor customer service for others because inventory was being depleted from customers who needed it for their businesses for the long term. And that's poor customer service when you can't fulfill product orders and being used by people who had no intention of keeping it. They wanted a rental or free 30-day tryout and they knew they were going to be returning it. So there Best Buy was firing customers as well and that's when I first heard of the concept years ago.

I own 2 bars in Tel Aviv and I remember when we opened the first one, I think 6 years ago, one of the partners was a last-minute kind of add-on. He joined, I didn't know him. We became very close friends, and I remember he wanted to introduce me to his lady friends, and he said, I'll introduce you to your next wife. And he would go up to them at the bar and say, hi, you need to meet my partner. And then he would start telling them all the things and all the titles I have, or have done. And you spoke about the LinkedIn and what we've done on the LinkedIn. So mine says Chief of Happiness, and I believe I don't need to add all the rest. And now you and I are just meeting for the first time, and we're getting the chance to explain what we've done or how we did it, what's the point behind it. It wasn't about the titles, it was about fulfillment and accomplishing things we wanted. And when I look, I hear you talk about the chutzpah concept, I think 90%, that's how I achieved them. Yeah.

Oh, well, you, you absolutely would fit the profile very strongly. I mean, you know, it's funny, we talk about your bars in Tel Aviv. There's an organization, a nonprofit called Save a Child's Heart. I don't know if you know them. They're in a suburb, they're outside of Tel Aviv. And it's physicians, medical personnel who, understanding that children's cardiac care differs tremendously around the world. And in some countries, a child with even minor heart issues, cardiac issues, probably wouldn't survive because the healthcare system wasn't good enough. I mean, Israel is a very modern state, a leading edge in technology, engineering, but also medical technology. Yet you're surrounded by other countries that don't always have the ability to provide the same level of service. And their vision was to create Save a Child's Heart in Israel. Again, suburb of Tel Aviv. I don't remember the exact city. The story is in my book, but you might appreciate this because it's a chutzpah story. And they provide free care to children. On my last trip to Israel, I happened to visit the place, and it was mostly children from Africa and other Middle Eastern countries, some of whom were technically still at war with Israel. But they would bring in the families, and it was interesting because they wouldn't tell the children where they're going. The parents obviously knew that they were taking some risk, by taking a child to the enemy for treatment. The children didn't know where they were, and because on going back you didn't want anything to slip. But they were telling me that their growth was moving along. They were helping, assisting more and more children on a regular basis. They needed to expand, and they had designed for a particular cardiac surgical center or room, an operating room. that would be state-of-the-art, all the technology they could need, and they knew it'd be tremendously helpful. They'd grown to that point, and they needed $2 million to finish that up. And they met with an Israeli entrepreneur, and the person that I interviewed is here in the States, and he told me he was new with the company and there was somebody more senior. And the senior person told them, look, when we go in Try and limit your reactions to whatever this donor, potential donor, says. So he's thinking, wow, this is something. We need $2 million. Can you imagine if we can get a couple hundred thousand dollars how much further that would be? Who would give that much money? Well, they go through their design and their mission, and the donor says, what you're doing is very important. I'm going to give you $1 million. And the person I interviewed said he couldn't believe it, a million-dollar donation, but he basically kept silent because he noticed that the senior person wasn't responding. So he says he waited and sweaty and thinking, oh my God, are we insulting this person by not even responding? What if he withdraws his offer? And eventually the other person says, But we need $2 million. Now there's a pause from the donor, and it's getting even harder for the person I interviewed. Did we just blow this thing? We had $1 million in hand. And the donor says, You have your $2 million. Today, Save a Child's Heart provides surgery and saves more than a child a day during the year. This small organization from nothing is providing this level of care. And he, he told me that was the best chutzpah story he had ever witnessed. The person to sit there calm, collected, wait, and say, we need $2 million. And that led to the result.

So I love the story. And, um, you know, your book is going to come out on the 14th of April.

April 12th, actually. It's available for pre-order right now.

Yeah, I checked. So I'll definitely put the link on the YouTube for people to read. If they want to reach out, how can they find you? What's the best way to reach out? LinkedIn? Twitter?

LinkedIn is the best. I'm always looking at that. Twitter, I'm right now less involved in because I'm getting a lot of my social networking and social media needs frankly met through LinkedIn, which to me is also more of the business platform. Twitter, there's everything possible on there. I'd rather focus on the people in business who want to improve their lives personally, their lives at work, and if they have companies, to think in terms of a chutzpah culture. But LinkedIn is great. They can call me. My website is thechutzpaguy.com.

I love the title, by the way. Chutzpah Guy. I love that. It made me smile. And at the end of the day, it's about making other people smile and the way we convey feelings.

That's the way I see it. You're a branding expert.

I was planning on a 40-minute episode, just so you know, and we just crossed the 55. So I can't— I really had a good time and I feel, I have a feeling after you launch, let's see how it goes and then let's find some good stories that people reached out to you with and do another episode.

That would be fantastic. I look forward to returning to Israel and especially now with 2 new relatives who've just made Aliyah or are making Aliyah and other relatives in Yerushalayim, in Tel Aviv, in Haifa. It's time. So I'm going to look forward to meeting you at one, if not both, of your bars.

I, I love to have you. And by the way, I would love to have anyone from any place on the planet come visit us. We're always— we always like meeting new people. Um, to everyone, if you like it, please feel free to reach out to Mason. I had a great time. I need to rethink my chutzpah if I need to Step up my game a little bit more. I had an amazing time. Thank you so much. Good luck with your book, and I'll see you soon in Israel, my friend.

That sounds good. Thank you.