Customer Experiences and AI - The Next Competitive Moat

Okay, hi, this is Sandy Carter. We are live, live, live, live from South by Southwest for this edition of the Marketing Companion, and we are super excited because we have Kenny Lahr who is here. He's one of my very favorite people. Welcome, Kenny!

Thank you so much. What an intro. I'm just so excited to be here with you. Uh, boy, I wish everyone could feel this energy right now. What's happening? It's so fun. Enough.

Yes, you know, well, Kenny, you've had one of the most electric careers. I always love talking to you because of all your experiences. You've worked for Apple and KPMG. I was just talking to Stefan, who runs KPMG.

Nice.

Um, JP Johnson— sorry, George P. Johnson, as well as the Golden State Warriors. And you've been a founder. I mean, you're just doing everything. So give me the 60-second version of who is Kenny Larra and what is the through line across everything that you do?

60-second version. Okay, so thank you first. Thank you for having me. I am thrilled to spend this time with you. Anytime with you. So my— I'm an experienced architect and, you know, my— when you look back over like a— the history, I don't have like what would be a straight line. So I often think about what, what is that line? What is that through line? In fact, I was just on a panel at UC Berkeley talking to junior and senior psychology majors.

Oh, wow.

Where I was the kind of token deviation of what you do with a psychology degree, which is exactly how I love it. So what I, what I do, if I were to look back over, it's basically collapsing distances between people using technology. That's what gets me excited, is using technology as a means to an end to create meaning. And when I mean collapsing distances, I don't mean just physical distances. I mean emotional distances or cultural distances or psychological differences where they are the product, where they feel transformed. So even though I guess the through line is straight when you look at it that way, I've kind of taken a scenic path.

Well, you know, it's interesting cuz I was just reading something from Gartner and they said that the last form of true competitive differentiation will be customer experience. Yes. And that's exactly what you do, right?

Yeah. Because meaning is everything right now. And I'm sure we'll get into it, but especially as AI is starting to play bigger and bigger roles, one of the big differentiators is how someone experienced your live brand in the world. And that is through user experience, through physical experiences. It's through the creation of meaning, which, which, which is what I do, which is what I love.

I love that. I think that's very interesting. So your career today has gone through um, sports and entertainment and technology. So given we're on the Marketing Companion podcast, how do you personally think about marketing today, and has your perspective changed?

So, um, I would say that, uh, the way I think of marketing is through this concept of experiences. Certainly there's messaging and media and campaigns, but to me, no one experiences a brand through the message. They experience brand through how it makes them feel. And yes, I did use the word feel because, because, you know, when you feel something, through an experience, that's how you create your memory. And it is those memories that create the stories that help us move through the world, right? So if you think of, like, I always think of EMS, so experience, memories, and stories. So memories are the residue, or maybe the imprint of experiences. And it's these memories that are then stitched together to create these stories. And let's face it, at the end of the day, all we have are our memories. Like, you and I are having this amazing experience right now, but it will end, unfortunately.

Yeah.

And then what we are left with is how we remember that experience. So I believe that marketing is about creating these experiences in ways that you can help ensure that people will remember those experiences in a really unique way, a memorable way. Something that's kind of in your amygdala is tagged as emotion so that, so that it becomes a part of your life. You can revisit it as we do with memories, and you can experience that brand in a much deeper, more soulful way.

Like you and I having memories at Maudie's Tex-Mex, right?

Right. Exactly.

Two factoids that I think are kind of fun. So if you looked at LinkedIn Jobs, from 2024 to 2025, the increase in the number of job postings for storytellers has more than doubled.

Yeah.

And I think this is fascinating. So South by Southwest has votes for sessions, right?

Yeah.

And last year the most voted on sessions were AI. So 2025, AI.

Yep.

2026, I thought it was going to be AI and it wasn't. It was community.

Yeah.

And so we were talking last night, a group of us, what is it going to be in 2027? And we came to the conclusion that we think it's going to be humanity and the experiences we have as humans. Right.

You know what? I hope, I hope, because, you know, I've been an advisor for South by for 12 years now. And, uh, it's a very selfish thing because as I judge the panels, I get to see what is on everybody's mind. It's the same reason I judge for the Emmys is I get to see amazing things that happen. So it's very selfish, but that is exactly what I saw when I was judging. Even in the ones that didn't make it here, the majority was— I thought for sure it was going to be AI, and there were substantial AI. There's—

don't get me wrong, my session on Wednesday.

Yeah, like your section on Wednesday, which I'll be at. There is a lot, but what was so I guess, fulfilling for me was that we are now kind of understanding the role of experiences and community and connection and proximity and really meaning, you know, new book on mattering. There's a whole bunch meaning right now. And many of those got voted in and are showing up here at South by.

Yeah, I think that's really fascinating.

Pretty fun.

Okay, we're going to go through a couple of questions on your career.

Okay.

And we will do that in the context of marketing, right? Because we're a marketing podcast. And then we're going to close it out with your top 3 learnings from South by Southwest on marketing. So first, favorite marketing job. I know you've told me many times was being in marketing for the Warriors with Stephen Curry. You spent 4 years there, I believe.

Yeah.

Marketing and digital during that time. What was like your biggest achievement in marketing, your most electric moment, your most electric experience at the work that others can learn from?

That's a great question. So yes, my time at the Warriors, the Golden State Warriors, was fantastical because it was the time when we went from not being a championship team to being a world championship team over multiple seasons. And I was there for the, for the duration of those. So, you know, we were winning. And in sports in general, but certainly in sports, it's good to be a winner. There are so many wonderful things that happened there. I think the one that if I had to pick one that was most beneficial, it was that the Warriors had never really had an ongoing campaign. So I recognized an opportunity when Steve Kerr, our coach, came in to build a campaign that was going to be very different than anything that we had had, any sort of messaging or anything about what we'd done, because Steve Kerr was all about the team, not about the individual. You know, first thing he came to me and he said, we need to take down everything Steph Curry in the practice facility. And I'm like, Have you talked to Steph about that? He's like, he's like, yeah, no, you don't know basketball.

Steph Curry is like not just the superstar for the Golden Warriors. Yeah, he is like the rock star of the NBA.

Yeah, he changed the way he changed the ball.

Yeah, 3-pointers all day long.

And because he's a good role model in a lot of ways, we actually— a lot of people became fans of the Warriors because of Steph, not, not necessarily because— and I was more than happy to welcome anybody who wanted whatever the on-ramp was to the brand. But Steve Kerr had mentioned one line during a pep speech or a pep talk he gave to the team, which was called Strength in Numbers. And he's like, look, we're— it's about strength in numbers. It's not about you. It's not about you. It's not about you. It's about everyone. And I said, you know what? I believe that that's more than just a marketing message. That is an ethos. That's a mantra. And I think the reason why it worked, and it worked really well, was that we were already demonstrating that on the court, the way we played. We shared the ball, the team shared the ball, they hugged each other, they felt good. We also resurfaced courts in Oakland, California. We worked in the prisons. So we were demonstrating this sort of campaign more as a belief and less as a marketing motto. And what the fans got to do is become part of that strength in numbers. So they were, they were part of that team, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. They felt it. And also when they watched the team, we weren't creating strength in numbers, we were just revealing it. So they got to step into it. So the reason why I think it worked is that it was so native to what we believed in as a team, that we did not have to work. It was so genuine. And so even, um, even to this day, um, LeBron James says, you know, it's like what the Warriors always say, strength in numbers. Uh, it was fantastic, and it ran for— it should still be running in my opinion, but, um, it ran for, you know, a good 7 seasons because it was such a natural play. And then of course we are very lucky because I was able to create experiences around that We created our own language using hashtags with that, with a great agency that helped, that really got it. They were all Warriors fans. They bled, you know, blue and gold, right? So we had incredible work there. And then we integrated the fans in every moment we could around this concept of you're part of the team, you're, you know, you're the strength in these numbers.

So do you think the marketing message there is making sure that your customers, because your product was basketball, Right. Um, do you think the message is including your customers in whatever you decide to have as your rallying cry? I mean, what is a big lesson from your—

I think for me is to look at how you can bring your customers, um, and your community into your marketing message. It is only going to be a force multiplier in, in people, um, experiencing that. Certainly people— we heard— I had shirts, people were walking around walking billboards because they loved to be a part of it. The community loved it because it added more community pride. So we've really— I think the message is really understand how your company, your brand and its customers, as well as, you know, the entire ecosystem can play a role in supporting this, which kind of means is keep it broad enough to be able to find ways for people to take their carabiner and hook onto that hook, right? And be a part of it. Um, because we saw, we saw fans taking the strength in numbers into places that we— and using it in ways we never expected, but it made them feel good and, uh, you know, increase the halo effect of, uh, the relationship with the Golden State Warriors.

Awesome. I love that lesson. Now let's go on to your next chapter, or I don't know if it's exactly next, but Um, you did a lot of stuff in Japan, and I think it's really fascinating because on the podcast we have people from all over the world. Um, we tend to have a lot of people from the US on, but I'd really like to expand into some of the things that you did in Japan that maybe worked there that could be applied other places. What was most unusual or most surprising that you learned from marketing outside the US?

So, you know, most of the marketing that I do involves the creation of experiences. As I said before, I believe there's different marketers, obviously, but my style of marketing is that I believe every touchpoint is an experience and it is up to the brand to be— to collapse that distance. And usually that involves an emotional component. Because it is, again, emotions that drive behaviors, which drive memories, which delivers the stories that people share or how you move through the world. So what became very obvious— I had several interesting experiences. So one I had, which I think I really learned early on in my career, was that you, even though we as humans are are similar in that emotions and whatever are connected to memory and that we code those, we etch those moments into our memory. What actually creates that memory could be very culturally dependent. And my first experience doing some work in Tokyo was that, to be honest, I believe that I had it figured out. That I made some assumptions in terms of what was going to be relevant in the US and what was going to be meaningful was also going to be meaningful for this group. This, this happened to be around a digital experience, but it became very clear to me that we had made some strategic mistakes because we did not understand the culture. We did not understand what was important to them and also what was potentially offensive to them. And that— and in the most recent experience, what I did, I worked with the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology, and it was very important that I had a culturally relevant liaison who helped me understand how to translate some of the things I really wanted to do, because I honestly just wanted to connect and make sure that there was some relevancy and meaning in what I do. But I needed to know what it was about that experience that was going to do that. So, for example, sometimes in the US we're very loud, we're over the top and whatever, and we feel like that's—

and in Brazil too.

Well, I mean, look, look at what we're here. Yeah. Whereas like in Japan, that's— that could be overwhelming, right? They have this amazing, uh, you probably know with that it's called, uh, oshibori, which is that they offer towels to back in the Edo, back in the 1600s, it was to like warn travelers, to welcome them. I'm gonna take care of you first before I take care of myself or before I can help you. And it is an understanding of how to take those sorts of things that have a depth in history and meaning and turn those into relevant experiences that are gonna support them. And certainly this has to be, you know, it wasn't just with Japan. We had people from all over the world. So part of it was educating people on what this was because many people didn't know this or the bowing or even the culture of Okinawa specifically, which is very different than Tokyo. So I think the takeaway is that we can get very— this happens all the time, but you can get very in your own head and you can We're amazingly capable of convincing ourselves and enrolling ourselves that we're doing the right thing. But it's important to understand where this is going to be experienced, who they're going to experience, what the past history is, and really understand what behavior you want to drive, because the behavior you want to drive might come from a very different point.

Yeah.

In Japan than it would come from the same behavior here in the US.

Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a great marketing lesson is understanding the culture. I mean, like, if I think about, let's say, the— we were both— we both came in here. It's freaking cold today. We both came in here with Patagonia jackets on.

Right.

And so the way that we would speak to an audience from Patagonia would be very different than the way we might speak to a retail audience from Walmart would be very—

right?

So the lesson applies not just for countries, but understanding the culture and the values of your own brand. To take those forward. Would that be accurate?

Absolutely. I mean, I think the culture of a brand can be just as different and just as strong within the same country as a different country might exhibit. And again, you need to be— you can't be blind to— again, if the whole goal is to collapse distances and connect to the heart. At the Warriors, my motto was heart first, wallet second, because I know that if you connect emotionally to someone, the money will come, right? As long as you focus on what's really important to people, because that is what drives them, that's what's going to make them feel connected to the brand, and then they'll act in accordance to how market— marketers want. So same thing would happen with a Patagonia or, um, or another brand or, you know, you know, it's your responsibility, though, to understand how that, that culture is different between the brands.

So this is where I would like to tie it into artificial intelligence as well. So if you're listening, answer this question in your head: How much of the world has been digitized? Just think about that for a second, because that is what LLMs, that is what AI is trained on. And guess what the answer is? 15%.

One-five.

One-five.

15%.

So there's 85% of what we know, and they're primarily experiences, which is what Kenny's talking about. Culture, what you talked about as well, right? Knowing the culture, knowing the context. There's only one country today that I know of that's trying to embed culture into their LLM, and that is in Africa. I got introduced to this new LM coming out of Africa, and what they're doing is because half of the country is not even on the internet, they're going around and collecting verbal stories from tribes and from people so that they can feed that into the LLM. So the LLM then has some cultural context of where they've come from and what they're doing. And I thought that was really fascinating. So when you're using AI to drive your content, sometimes you miss the soul of it. So I always advise people, don't just go in and use Claude or ChatGPT, you know, say, give this, spit this back out to me because you're going to lose your soul. You're going to lose that experience, I think, as well.

I couldn't have said it any better. I think absolutely. We've seen many conversations here at South by along those lines, understanding what the role of AI now, what does it look like, what is its impact? To marketing and how is it changing the world of a marketer? And, and, and how to get ahead of that and how to stay relevant. All the most important things. So that's fantastic. I did not know that.

Yeah, you should check it. I'll introduce you to them because they're quite fascinating. It's the only country— I was talking to the Brazilian team here yesterday because we are hosted by San Paulo House here at South by Southwest. So, and we're— and Kenny and I are looking out at this food trucks and, and music and videocast and panels and people everywhere out here because community is so important in the Brazilian culture.

So vibrant and, and so energetic and so loving. I wish, I wish you were all here.

I know, me too. So, um, I think I'm gonna go now to the question about South by Southwest. So you and I now have been here for quite some time Yeah. And we've been experiencing it. If you had to summarize 3 takeaways for marketers, what would you summarize as those 3 takeaways for marketers from South by Southwest?

So, you know, this, this Southwest, South by Southwest, again, I've been involved as you for many years. And so this is, this one's different, just even in the structure. Um, you know, uh, if they shorten the footprint, um, so a shorter amount of days, there's no central convention center. It's really feels a little more distributed. And I don't know about you, but I'm feeling less kind of physical experiences, like where you would go in and just get blown away, like some in the past, but more, more, um, focus on, uh, like what we're experiencing here. At the San Pablo House or in the, in the actual, uh, summit part of it where, where people have the sessions. And, um, so what I have, what I have seen in terms of AI, one of the, the biggest things that seems to always come up is that AI is playing a much different role in the overall marketing stack right now. So we know, we know it's moving in. It's less around delegation and go do something and more around agentic. Clearly. How— but to me, how do you bring, how do you bring that into an organization? And maybe more specifically, how, what, how you want to be discovered now as a brand isn't completely up to you anymore because now you have this layer this between kind of the platform and the consideration level where it's going through AI.

Mm-hmm.

So if you aren't playing the role to understand how to be discovered, you may have a great product, you may have a great message, you may have a great thing, but if you are not showing up in those spaces, then, um, then there are some people that just may never experience you.

Yeah, you might be, you might disappear. You know, backing up that point, I've been playing a lot with tools for GEO.

Yeah.

You know, we've been doing SEO forever.

Yeah.

And GEO is really linking into the agentic tools that are out there. And I found this really great tool that I'm gonna showcase in my presentation. And what it does is it shows you what prompts people are using. What prompts, I didn't say keywords. What prompts people are using to discover products in your categories. And I have to say, it's been very surprising and not a lot of consistency. So for SEO, you know, you found that things hovered around a set of words. In prompting, I'm noticing that it's really not hovering around a word. It's kind of like a scattergraph all over the place. And so I think it's creating a new challenge for people out there. And I'll be talking about Optimized GEO, WriteSonic, some of those guys who are trying with tools to help marketeers figure out how to show up in those engines, right?

Your, your, your world has just got more complicated because— and I'm very interested in that tool and if they do it based on, you know, the prompts from, from different LLMs. And if that makes a difference as well.

It makes a huge difference. Yeah. So you could show up really high on ChatGPT, right? Not show up at all on Gemini or show up in Perplexity, not show up in Claude at all. So it's almost now like you've got not just one, you know, before you were kind of targeting Google, right? Now you've got to target multiple things. And because the algorithms and the way those LLMs are so different.

Yep.

Now you've got to use some different tactics as well. It's quite, quite interesting.

Yeah, I mean, this is just a whole, um, especially for traditional marketers, you know, it, it is a whole new world to consider that because it used to be, okay, look, I mean, I remember 15 years ago, I, you know, I had the same conversation when in fact, uh, I was on stage and I was saying, look, you're, you know, the brand is no longer in control of your message, back when, you know, they used to be, um, in, on, you know, on the 21st floor, they'd say, this is the message, this is what we stand for, this is it, push it out. Then social media came and people are like, no, no, you're not like that, right? This. And I said at that point, I said, yeah, look, for marketers, we're in a different ballgame. You gotta be honest, you gotta be genuine, you gotta connect because people are gonna call you out. You're, you can no longer just spend a million dollars, declare who you are and hope that that's what it's gonna be or assume that that's what it's gonna be. We're kind of in the same boat right now. So now, you know, marketers, and this is why I think the second thing that I'm seeing besides this kind of, you know, now this, let's just call this interstitial layer of getting from what we want people to hear about us to actually getting it. Because, I mean, because what a brand needs to do, I think, is be clear, um, in what they do, um, and to be able to find ways that they're surfaced and then ways that they are recommended. But the next step is you have to find ways you're remembered. So, and this is kind of goes full circle to where we started, is it's really important to create a memory, but now you have several steps in between. So that's number one. The second thing that I've been seeing a lot of, and I just was at a Joe Pine conversation on his next book, The Transformation Economy. Joe Pine, of course, back in 1999, 20, came up with the Experience Economy, which transformed the way I thought about how, how the world worked from marketing, from services, primarily from services to experiences and now experiences to transformation. Um, he's only one of many sessions that were on how important now with AI it is to, to keep that humanity, to, to differentiate yourself as a brand through what you stand for and how you, how you interact, how you show up, how you're remembered in the world. Um, because of, not only because like I started, I think it's one of the most powerful things in the world. And we've seen many brands who do it really well. But now with AI playing this kind of potentially interstitial role, it becomes even more important to differentiate yourself in that, in that way.

And I think that really flows into trust.

Exactly.

It was quite interesting because what you're saying is show your humanity so that you can be trusted.

Right.

And I was in a couple of sessions here where brands are now starting to use not real people as actors, but avatars. Huge backlash. A big insurance company just released an ad. They did not use actors. They used fake people, if you would, generated by AI. And backlash was huge. And why was that? Because people are like, well, now we don't trust you. Like, you're kind of faking like these are real people. These aren't real people. What else are you faking about?

Exactly. That is exactly right. You know, You know, when you're on an airplane and the overhead compartment doesn't close right, you start wondering how the rest of the plane is maintained. It's the same sort of thing as a brand. You don't want to even open that, that line of thinking. What you want is someone to stay within the experience of the brand. And just like when I'm creating brand experiences and one of my favorite examples is Walt Disney, he would never use a modern truck. Even after hours to change a light bulb in Frontierland because that would never happen.

Yeah.

You know, because you don't want to ever pull someone out of the experience. A lot of— I do a lot of work with Meyer Sound. They do— they use sound to drive behavior through loudspeakers and acoustic design. And you never want to have a fan at an arena not working too hard to hear what the PA is or feeling it because you've now taken them out of the experience. It's the same way. It'll be really interesting to see how this evolves. You know, I think it might be different. You know, Coca-Cola, you know, got a lot of backlash for their, for their commercial, but they are pushing forward and continuing. And so I think the brands and the marketers are going to have to figure this out because whether this is kind of a transition in AI or it's really something that they're going to have to be hyper aware of. But you have to own that responsibility. And, and it's a big one.

So one, one we talked about for your first big lesson for South by Southwest was around—

was around the first one was around this additional awareness that you need to actually develop for how, how your brand is received in—

in showing up in AI, right? And the second, would you characterize as trust?

And the second one, absolutely. In fact, I would say that I, when I was saying, when I was talking, I was thinking trust. And so absolutely, I think it all comes down to trust. And trust is, you know, trust is an emotion, is an emotional response. It's all based on behavior and what you see. It's not based on what you're told. And let me just tell you, as I've been there in many respects, it's a lot harder to build back up once you've lost that trust.

Yeah, for sure.

Than to, um, than to actually maintain that and build up on that. Again, you got to know who your audience is and how they're going to respond, because there are certainly certain companies where I would imagine their customers wouldn't care as much. Yeah, but in this case, not so.

So first two lessons for marketeers: one is how are you showing up, in particular in artificial intelligence, because that's where you're showing up a lot. Secondly is trust, and AI plays a role there too, because if you're using AI too much, you might not come through your story, might not come through your ads. You might be using fake people and people now wonder what you're doing. What's your big third? What's your last big lesson that you've learned here from South by around marketing?

I mean, I think the third is, is just that, again, it's a doubling down on that AI is here to stay and that AI has to be looked at as not something that you delegate to, but something you, you integrate as an orchestration and, and how relevant that is to our world and marketing, of course, but in so many other aspects. I've had phenomenal conversations with nonprofits that are trying to figure out how to be better at what they're doing. For-profit companies, individuals. We've seen these challenges with just people wanting to get hired and having to go through AI filters. And what does that mean? And so I, to me, I just saw the doubling down almost like what I would say is it was a recognition. It wasn't a question. Right, of how, how we bring, how we bring AI into what we do.

And some interesting stats that I saw were around, and I'll share these in my talk on Wednesday, were that if you have, if you're a marketing leader and you as the leader say, oh, my team's going to use AI, you're almost 2 times more likely to fail. If you're a marketing leader and you use AI some, but you don't really talk about it, you're 2.2 more likely to succeed. But if you are a marketing leader and you embed AI in what you're doing and you ask your teams about it, it's not just verbal, you just, you're like, let me see the actions, let me show you what I did today on AI, you have almost a 5 times greater possibility of succeeding with your team. So the leadership really matters and it's really—

that's exactly what I was gonna say—

getting your hands, I mean, that's what my takeaway from you.

It comes down And I'm asking you, but also I'm agreeing with you that it comes down to leadership. How open are they for exploration? In some cases, how much budget is being attributed to this? How much freedom? And of course, it matters in different, you know, still in the, in the, in Hollywood and the creation of stories. There's still challenges just on how much can an AI do versus how much could a human do? Can an AI really create a Pixar story without humans, right? So I think there's also these structural and kind of fear-based industries that are still trying to figure out how to actually make it happen.

And I have to introduce you, I'm gonna show it on Wednesday as well. I've been working with a company called Storytown. And these are 3 executives. One was from Disney. One was from Pixar. One was from Fox. And they started looking at the fear that Hollywood was having with AI. And because they had done so many different films, like one did Mask with Jim Carrey. I mean, these guys have done incredible films. They now have this AI product called Storytown. It today can be used for fiction books or writing a screenplay. Soon for marketeers, for branding, telling that branding story. It's such a powerful tool. And what one of them has done from his time at Disney, he, he has trademarked this concept of emotioneering, and he's got this emotioneering that's embedded into the storyline. So if I take ChatGPT and I type a story in and it helps me transform it, and then I do it in Storytown. The Storytown is so much more touching. It's got soul. It's got that emotion embedded in it because of the way that he's trained it based on his proprietary techniques. So I'll have to show you that one too.

I absolutely think that is, I mean, that's fascinating. And I think that's an absolute great example that, you know, a ChatGPT or even a Claude or what, they're, they're not the end-all be-all for what what you need to do. And I've seen these private LLMs around specific things. Pi at one point was an emotional AI from Inflection, right? So they were trying to do some things and everything, but this concept of story, I think Hollywood is coming around, there's no question, but I think they're gonna need proof.

I love it because Hollywood does such a great job of telling stories that marketeers can use it as well.

Oh my God, absolutely.

I know we could go on and on and on, Kenny, but we've got our next podcasters coming on board. We've got the Brazil music calling to us and the food, and we could stay on with you guys at the Marketing Companion forever and ever. But we're going to close. I do want to thank my two sponsors, Brevo, who is amazing at helping you with AI. I obviously leverage and use Brevo for my newsletters I send out, for my storylines I send out from this podcast. And then SEMrush, an amazing tool as well that we use internally in my company for not just looking at our SEO results, but now SEO as well. So make sure you check both Brevo and SEMrush out. And Kenny, thank you so much. I mean, people, tell us how people can reach you if they're interested in learning more about you.

I'm very grateful. I mean, I'm in a lot of places. Just do a search for me. You'll find it.

Okay.

LinkedIn. Yeah, LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the best and apparently will be better after our session. So yeah, please. And if you're interested in talking about experiences and behavior modeling and human behavior, please reach out. I'd love that.

Awesome. And thank you guys for everybody listening in to the Marketing Companion.

Thank you, Sandy.

Thank you.

Let's go! All right. All right. Thank you.