78.How to Build a Business You Love w/ Seth Spears

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All right guys, welcome to Real Influence. On today's episode, we're chatting with Seth Spears, an entrepreneur, business connector, outdoorsman, angel investor dedicated to building purpose-driven brands that prioritize mission over margin and purpose over profit. I love those taglines. So Seth, welcome. How are you doing today?

Hi Jay, thanks for having me.

Where did you come up with those?

That's a really good question. I've done a lot of things in my life in business, and I've always had the motto of quality over quantity and focusing on how I can focus on creating the highest quality products or services. And so I think it just came out of that, of just thinking, what do I stand for? What am I doing in the world? And so if you can make money doing a lot of different things, but if you can't be proud of what you created at the end of the day, then why are you doing it? You're probably in it for the wrong reason.

Yeah, I love that. And another friend of mine, he had, I think it was Passion Over Profits. When I saw Purpose Over Profit, I was like, I love that. And I love alliteration, I love marketing. And, uh, I know you're a fan of all this stuff too. So before we jump into like the business side, I always like to ask people, you know, what's something interesting about yourself that not a lot of people might know?

Okay. I physically walked across the entire country just after college.

Okay. Any particular reason for that?

It was a nonprofit. I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. Still am. Uh, yeah, a friend of mine was running this nonprofit and encouraged me to, uh, to do it. And so I did. It was the summer of 2005.

How long did it take?

Most of the summer, so like 2, 2 and a half months.

Okay. And were you by yourself?

No, there was a group of us. There was 10 people, 10, 12 people. We lived out of an RV, so just kind of camped out of it. And yeah.

Would you do it again?

I don't know that I would do that particular one again, but I would love to go walk the Camino in Spain. That's something that is definitely on my list that is similar but different.

Okay. I've never done that. And I instantly went to like the Forrest Gump takeaway of like when he is running across America.

Yeah.

In business though, like you, you've got a pretty vast background of different things. Why don't you walk us through a little bit of like what those experiences have been? Where did you start in business and kind of where you're at today?

Yeah, I think my first foray into business was after I left my last real job where I was going into consulting, helping homeschool students prepare for college. I was homeschooled my entire life, which is also another fun little tidbit that a lot of people don't know. So basically from kindergarten all the way through high school, and then the first and last real job that I had was as the Assistant Director of Admissions for a college, a liberal arts college in Nashville, Tennessee. So when I ended up leaving there, I had this idea that homeschool students, there's a lot of things that they don't know about how to get ready for college as far as subjects that they should be taking, preparing, making sure that they have taken the right tests like the ACT and the SAT and all that stuff. And so, because I had dual experience both being homeschooled and also on the collegiate admissions side, so I created a website for myself and started getting into consulting and realized that just because someone needs something, that doesn't mean that they know that they do or that they're willing to pay for it. So, I would call it kind of a failed venture, but I ended up selling that website and everything, so I made a little money on it. In so doing this, I learned that I actually really liked marketing and web design, and I have a marketing degree. So I started putting those tools to use and started building websites for friends and family who were interested in starting their own business. And then as part of that, you realize just because you have a site doesn't mean that anyone knows it's there. So I got into SEO and social media marketing from— so that company was called Spears Marketing, and then I converted that into just a consultant.

Sure.

Agency, where I still do a little bit of consulting today. But during that same time, I convinced my now ex-wife to start a blog in the health and wellness space. And I was using this as a testing ground for my paying clients. And that website grew and grew and became this major, major thing. It became the most popular health and wellness website and podcast for moms called Wellness Mama. And so, that was my primary focus for many, many years. And then, I leveraged that into starting an e-commerce company. Called Wellness, which is my primary focus today. We had tutorials on how to make personal care products, shampoo, conditioner, deodorant, toothpaste, and the audience really liked them. But when you hear the same request over and over, will you just make this and sell it to me so I don't have to make it? Then, you know, the realization came that this is probably a good business. So I started that in 2000. That's been my primary focus. And kind of in between there as well, I've also done quite a bit of angel investing. In the health and wellness space. I started a network of blogs in the health space. I created an outdoor equipment company with my brothers called Rewild Gear, which we still run today, just to scratch our own itch of creating really high-quality and minimalistic gear for camping, hunting, and backpacking. So, I've done quite a few things over the past almost 20 years now.

Yeah, that's cool. I didn't realize that wellness kind of stemmed from people who want— like, you're teaching people how to actually make the products themselves, and then it's like, can you just make this for us? It's like, yeah, of course.

Yeah, for sure.

What a great way to beta test the product.

Yeah, I mean, I had done a few other things in there as well, in e-commerce a little bit, like making some teas and just different stuff and selling them. And, you know, they made money and like some at farmers markets and things like that, but it was a lot of work for very little income. So I always loved e-commerce just more so than even just the digital space because it's a lot more tangible. So when When you're building a website for someone or creating content and selling advertising, that's fantastic. You can do it from your laptop, but it's kind of ephemeral. You know, it's just pixels, it's bits and bytes and ones and zeros kind of in the ether up there. But for e-commerce, when you're actually physically creating a product and you conceptualize something and then you see it, you can hold it in your hands, it's really tangible. I always like that a little bit more because it's more analog than digital. And I think we've gotten into such a digital world that anytime we can get back into the more analog space of just being present in the physical realm, that's a good thing. Yeah.

And also, for those of you who want to check it out, Rewild Gear is a really cool company. You want to talk a little bit about the products you guys make there? Because I think any outdoorsman would love to see that. Sure.

Yes. That's my fun side project that I started with my, with my 3 brothers. So we grew up Camping and hunting and backpacking and just loving nature and spending time in the outdoors. And so we were sitting around a campfire drinking bourbon many years ago, comparing knives and just talking about what would it look like if we were to design our own knife, or what is the perfect knife? Because the knife is the original tool, and so it enabled us to build every other tool and really create civilization. So we started comparing them and kind of just writing things down on a napkin of what the design would look like, the materials and all that, that just kind of set it to the side and didn't think about it. Then fast forward a few years when COVID happened and all the lockdowns, I had this realization that one thing that people could still do is get outdoors, get in nature and spend time out there. Hey, there's no time like the present. Let's give this thing a go. So I started sourcing materials and designing the products, and the mission really is to get men specifically back out into nature, spend more time there with family, with friends, and just reconnecting with our natural world because we're losing so much of it. And so it's my belief that when we reconnect with the natural world, we're more likely to take care of it, to protect it, and stop losing it. We'll stop polluting, we'll stop doing all these things that are detrimental to it because that does affect the health of our health and the health of the planet. So yeah, so we make knives and fire starters and backpacking grills and camping utensils. All things just very minimalistic and just items that I wanted for myself, but also that I thought would resonate with others and just encourage people to get out in nature.

Yeah. I love that. I love the products, but I also love the mission behind it too, as far as getting people outdoors. I'm a family man as well. I've got a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old. But whenever I was reading up on your story and you've got 6 kids, like, so I want to go back to, I also like, I mean, on this podcast, now that we've transitioned a little bit more to personal development rather than just business. Hearing the stories behind like what challenges you faced. I mean, you mentioned homeschooling for yourself. Did you guys homeschool your kids?

Yeah. So that was one of the things that we had decided on was to homeschool them early on because the school systems weren't that great. I'd never enjoyed being homeschooled myself. I was always really social and my parents did it primarily for religious reasons and just, they thought that every— everything and everyone was a bad influence and they had to protect myself and my siblings at all costs. So I always— and I didn't enjoy that so much. So I always said that I would never homeschool my own children. But then fast forward when I started having kids and just realizing that the school system was not very good and that they would get a better education at home, that kind of made the decision.

That's interesting because like I didn't know you guys homeschooled and I was just like, how did they run these businesses with 6 kids now, let alone Homeschooling. So why don't we talk about that? Like, what were the challenges you guys had? I mean, I have 2, and it seems like you make time. I think it's— there's a law that states, like, you know, the time you have is the time you're going to use. And with kids, it just became like, I'm more efficient now in what I do because I have to be. But I can't imagine that at the 6x level. So what was that like, you know, like trying to integrate homeschool, still run a business, and still chase your passions while still maintaining family life?

Things are a lot different back then than now, as my ex-wife and I are now divorced. And so it's very different. But back then, you know, they— all these things we were doing, it was like a hobby that turned into a business. So it was just kind of on the side, but having systems in place and time blocking. So like recording content or writing, that was kind of set in a certain time block for me for working on optimization and improving things, like, because I focus on the tech and the marketing side. And then just time blocking and setting time aside for each of those things. And then several years in, my former wife, her parents, they came on board and moved very close to us and did help with quite a bit of the educational side. And so that did make it a lot easier so that we could both focus on work and business more and they could focus on teaching the kids. Because sometimes there can be a little bit— it can be hard to teach your own kids because you're just too close to them. So having a little bit of that separation, that can make it a little bit easier sometimes.

Right.

Not for everyone, but for some.

Yeah. Well, and the reason I'm asking is like, it's a bit of a selfish ask because first off, we're still like, you know, the kids are 4 and 2, so one's in a really good daycare, one's in pre-K, and it is public school, but we still have an intent of like, what do we want our life vision to look like? Do we want to homeschool? What does it take to homeschool? What sacrifice does it require? And then getting out of our own way of biases. Like my bias is I want them to experience social life. And would they get that from homeschooling? So what's been your experience, just to share a little bit more on that? Like, how do you guys work on the social aspect beyond just the homeschool where they're kind of in a protected environment, a bubble? How'd you guys integrate that?

Things have drastically changed now from when I was a kid and being homeschooled. Like, it was— I was seen as a pariah. I grew up in Kentucky and was one of, I think, the first person in the modern era to be homeschooled all the way through. So I mean, that was like back in the '80s and then the early mid and So, very different now.

Yeah.

There are so many other options. There's lots of homeschool groups. They often— you'll find a community where they do pods or like a trade-off where one family will take a group of kids and help teach one subject and another will do the same thing. So, there are a lot more social options as well. There's a lot more educational options. So, it's not just one parent that's teaching all the kids, but the social side as well. And whether that's field trips, whether that's sports, whether that's just going to the park, it's— that has not been an issue for my children at all because they're very active. They have lots of friends in the neighborhood where they live. They are very active in different sports and community events. That has not been a concern whatsoever. They're probably more social than a lot of their peers in public or private school.

Man, yeah, that's awesome. Like, the age we live in where we have digital environments first off, and then there's so many people now doing this. It doesn't feel like your term was like the pariah of the neighborhood because like you were the only one getting it. Part of like you mentioned parents too. And one of the things that I noticed with people who, you know, later in life they're more successful, they're still probably working through some things themselves, things that are in their own way of like their own development or things that are causing friction in their life. Did you notice any like handed-down beliefs from either your parents or societal conditioning that you previously had in your own life that then you started to raise kids and you have your own family that you realized were something that you had to start to question, like the assumptions that were made in your own life previously that you didn't want your kids carrying forward?

Oh yeah, so many. Where to start? Because I said so was never an acceptable answer for me growing up. I'm sure I drove my parents absolutely insane, which I know I did, because I would question why. I always wanted to know the reason behind everything. So when I had kids, I said that I would never say, because I said so. And I've mostly been able to stick to that. It's been a few instances when I haven't, typically when it's just like I'm busy and doing something and it's like, this is just the rule, because I said so, and I can't get into it now, but later I will dig into it. But, you know, I think every generation is a little bit different and their standards of what is acceptable or societal norms and things like that. For me, I never liked something just because it was considered normal. It was a societal norm, and this is what's acceptable. I wanted to know the reason behind that. And so, I've always encouraged my children to question the status quo, to ask questions, and so— and have given them the opportunity to ask those hard questions even if I don't necessarily know the answer, or then that's a growth opportunity. So, if they're interested in Why do we do this or why do we do that? And sometimes it's like, huh, good question. I don't know. Let's look it up. Why do we do this as a society or as a family or whatever? So there's just been so many instances over the years. Well, let's talk about hair length as an example. So my son, my oldest son, he wanted to grow his hair out and I was like, why? I mean, why do you want it long? Girls have long hair. Boys have shorter hair. He's like, Because I want to. I'm like, okay, fine. There's really not a good reason not to other than just like society says. So I let him do that and then he did it for like a year and then cut it. It was no big deal. So it's not just pushing back and choosing your battles, choosing on what things to fight over. Is something going to hurt the child? Is it really bad for them or is it they're just learning and figuring life out? And so usually it's the latter.

You mentioned something like challenging the status quo. I actually did an episode all around words, like the power of words and what you choose to tell your kids, like, is a reaffirmation in their life. So if you call them a crybaby all the time, they're going to think they're a crybaby, they're a drama queen. Because I said so is another big one that I've caught myself using. And I'm like, why am I saying that? Oh yeah, because that's what I was told when I was a kid, because there wasn't enough time. And I'm like, I have time now. I don't want to Still have that same language with my kids. I want to communicate in a more curiosity-based fashion. So it's interesting to hear that that's the experience you're having as well. And I think having kids puts things into perspective. I'd like to know from you, is there a time in your family life where the old Seth, the way potentially used to operate before kids, maybe there was more hustle grind, maybe there was just different behavioral traits you had. Where there's a defining moment in your life, a pivot moment as it were, that you're like, oh, I need to like change because if I want to be a better dad, I need to stop doing this. And just something that maybe sticks out in your mind.

The thing that's coming to mind was not necessarily hustle and grind, but when I was a parent early on around discipline. So I was spanked constantly as a child for disobeying and things like that. And usually how your parents treat you and how they raise you, even if you don't think about those things, kind of just pass on and you just do it because that's what my parents did, so it must be right. Look at me, I turned out okay. And so corporal punishment, that was one of those where I just, you know, my son or my daughter would disobey and so just spank them. You know, it was never like beating. It was never out of like abuse or anything like that. But I remember my son just kind of looked and like had this hurt look like, why are you doing this? It really made me pause and think, okay, what's the reason behind? It's because it's my own lack of parenting skills. It's my lack of understanding or trying to empathize or see where he's coming from. So this is a teaching moment. So instead of— because it's my ego against his right now, and that's why I'm doing it, because I'm hurt or I'm scared or I don't understand. And so I feel like I have to beat the truth into him.

True.

My truth, but I'm not actually trying to understand where is he at, why is he not open to listening. So I need to be a better parent because often I feel like as parents it's very easy to fall into the trap or fall back on these older ways of doing things just because we're less conscious about the reason why. We're not thinking about how can we do better, how can we elevate ourselves and our children. So it's lazy. It's lazy parenting in my opinion, a lazy way to discipline as opposed to— and I was that for many years. So I think it's just getting more conscious about what we're doing and having tougher conversations with ourselves and with our children and trying to find another way to communicate with them and discipline them because obviously discipline has to happen. We need to teach self-discipline because that is one of the greatest predictors of success is how self-disciplined And so if they don't see that as well, both in the life that we're living and in setting standards, and that there are consequences to their actions, that doesn't set one up for a good life.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting how much you just, I mean, first off, everyone has to give themselves a little bit of grace in this period of like having kids because they're evolving so quick and you're stuck in like your own patterns already. Cause like, you know, we're later in life. And we're not changing as much as we probably need to. And kids kind of force that in a really good way to start questioning, like, what am I doing that I'm just thinking, like, is the norm? And then now I have to reapply a bit of logic and how can I level up in this? I'm noticing myself, it's like, I need to stay one step ahead of the kids in terms of like, you know, oh, now they're at this and they're questioning this. And how do I answer this? And I gotta go listen to a podcast or something. I need some insights. Like, and it's such a great time. Again, I mentioned like, the time we live in, because we have access to knowledge and information beyond the existing ecosystem of like your own environment, you can tap into wisdom from people across the world. You know what I mean? You're not limited by your immediate environment, which is really cool. Kind of like a segue from that, but it's going to be a bigger question. Like, what was your highest high in business and maybe one of your lowest lows? Hmm.

There's a couple things that come to mind for highest high, and that was one of the first early successes when we had launched a meal planning service and to a small list of probably 5,000, 6,000 people, and it made, I think, $13,000. And but it was like recurring money that would come in like every, every year because there was the initial cost and then it was recurring and it was It's just like a basic meal planning service, just set an autoresponder series that every week it went out or twice a month. I can't remember exactly, just in AWeber and just email. And that was, remember hearing PayPal, like the PayPal just ding, ding, ding constantly. It's like, oh wow, you can make money online. And that was, I mean, that was so early on. It was such a small amount of money in comparison to anymore. That was, that was definitely up there.

Launching Wellness.

was also a big high. The day that we launched and we brought it to market, had the website up and running, and turned everything on in Shopify and sent an email to— because we had been building a list already— and then to the list we already had, and then texting friends and family and stuff, and it's live, it's ready to go. And then just seeing sales come in. And yeah, just that first day of like, we have a real business.

Yeah.

And we got this product in inventory and stuff. And now we're making sales. That was definitely, yeah, those two I'd say were the highest high. The lowest low, there's a couple of those as well. There was the time that we almost got sued for not doing anything but being overly competitive. We were trying to win an affiliate contest and just got overly competitive and promoted a little bit too much just to win. It wasn't even about the money, it was just about winning, you know, about the game. And we got more unsubscribes and more pushback saying, hey, this person, like, I'm on their list now and they're just emailing nonstop and it seems spammy and it doesn't seem like something you would promote. And so we ended up sending a retraction saying, hey, sorry, it's not a great fit, here's a free ebook or something. And so that person who we were promoting got very upset and said we destroyed their launch and it was like a big deal. And so threatened a lawsuit and all this stuff. And so dealing with the logistics of of that. But it was a great learning lesson. Don't let my competitive nature get in the way of doing what's best for the audience. So that was, that was up there.

The—

there's been a lot of lows as well. Another one was we were going to acquire another company, and it was a close friend who owned it, and there were some red flags going into to it just as far as there could be some potential personality conflicts and just different ways of looking at the business. Granted, she would have become like part of the team, and I don't want to say an employee. She would have a little bit of ownership but no decision-making. So, it ended up that did not go well and ended up giving the whole business back, cost about $500,000, and lost the friendship. So, that was definitely a low. And then in the early days of Wellness, Made a poor hire who was running the company, our first, and she ended up leaving very early on, citing cultural differences, and left things an absolute shit show. There were unpaid invoices, there were so many unread emails, no communication, and we were about 30 days away from getting sued just because of all that. And so we were very much in the red. So that was definitely very much a low. where we had to fight to turn it around. And it almost went under. I mean, we were very close to just letting it go. And I made the decision, I'm like, took on a small investment round from not just friends, but not just investors, but friends and some family. And I said, I'll be damned before I let them lose their money. Because this is my— this, this is something that I put my name on. This is my reputation. And it's my credibility. And even if I have to go belly up, I'll do that before I let them. It was also a turning point for me of realizing, hey, I've got to always do what's right. Not that I wasn't before, but it was like, I have to do what's right and I will do whatever it takes to make this a success in order to succeed. Because if I'm bringing other people with me, then that's on me. And so I've got to step up and make it happen.

Yeah. Wow. That's a lot to deal with. But it's part of business. On the relationship side, like I know that you went through a divorce. Was that related to the business? Was that part of like, I know you said you don't really hustle and grind, but I know a lot of people in business, you know, for myself too, trying to run a business with your partner is exceedingly difficult. It's not always easy to do depending on what business you're running, who you're with. And I'd just love you to share a little bit on that, as much as you're willing to share in terms of how that kind of transpired, looking back on it, any lessons that you'd learned from it that you'd kind of recommend other people that are also in business with their spouse.

Yeah, no, that's a great question and happy to share that. No, we did hustle and grind early on. There was a lot of hustle and grinding and there still is now, but it's kind of come in waves and phases. That said, with a partner, with a spouse, can be incredibly fulfilling. And when I shut down my marketing firm to grow all— go all in and growing the thing we had together, I realized there was a little bit of my ego was going to take a hit because she was the face of the brand. And so, I was going to have to take a step back in what I was doing because I was well-known in the industry and growing and I enjoyed it. But I realized that this was better for our family. Less work split up. There was more potential, more opportunity, and we could help a lot of people. So I made that decision aware of that, of there could be some potential issues there. So, but in so doing that, I kind of stepped out of that leadership role in some capacity of leading the family. And so the masculine-feminine dynamic really started to get messed up. And one of the reasons— there's a couple reasons. One, I had had some big health issues several years prior, and so my health had gone down, and so I had gotten out of the habit of doing a lot of the things around the house with the kids. And so she had taken over doing a lot of those things, and so she felt overwhelmed and overworked. So that was one thing. And then 2, the polarity within the relationship had gotten messed up because by going all in and growing the thing that we had together that she was the face of, I began acquiescing to her in all the business decisions, even if I disagreed, because I didn't want to fight. And that made it easier. But by so doing, she was in the leadership. She was in the masculine role. And, you know, I was, I was not in there, which is my natural place and where I'm much more comfortable. And so it didn't feel good. And so things just built up over time. Our communication systems were very different. I grew up in a loud, obnoxious Italian family where you're yelling and fighting and Just, you know, working things out. You don't go to bed if things are left unsaid. She grew up in a family that they were conflict avoidant and people pleasing. And so just because you disagree with something doesn't mean that you would ever vocalize it. So it was all internalized. And so there's a lot of resentment that built up over time just around all these things that wasn't either vocalized or didn't say in the words that I can hear. It's just kind of mentioned in passing. It was like, no big deal. Big whoop. Just because it wasn't like, this is the thing, we got to fix it now. That's how I am. And so it was just so many things just built up, and then eventually it was just all this kind of just came to a head. And you either grow together or you grow apart.

Mm-hmm.

And so she has started doing some deep work on herself and working on past trauma and things like that, and just a lot of stuff started coming up and just realizing that I thought that we had a lot more in common than we did because she would just go along with things, that whole people-pleasing side and afraid of conflict until all these came unpacked and it came to a head and just realized we don't have nearly as much in common as we thought. And so, we just very much drifted apart and that's okay, but it was also the hardest thing that I've ever— any type of breakup I think can be hard, but when you have multiple businesses together, 6 children. That's a different level. And so it was a, it was a very dark time in my life with business almost failing, separating out, figuring out who am I outside of that? What am I moving towards? What, who am I as a person? I'm no longer a husband, but I'm still a father. And how does that work? So it was a very, very challenging time. And, you know, thankfully I'm well past that, you know, like 5 years later. And life is Yeah.

You mentioned, first off, thanks for sharing. I mean, that takes a level of vulnerability to go through and to see it in a way where you can kind of separate the two. Like, you know, there's not a fault necessarily on one person because I think there's a level of extreme ownership when it comes to dealing with the separation of owning your own shit versus also identifying like that there's a clear disconnect between the two people.

Yeah.

And then working at traumas, working at not only like if you're separated from somebody and you want to then go work on yourself, which will be my next question on like what is it that potentially you identified? But it really is much like you don't wanna repeat the same pattern. So then you have to start going inward of like what happened here, but then what is it that I can own and what is it that I wanna change? Were there any things that were surfacing for you and like what work did you do after that between those 5 years? From that till today?

There's so many. I probably tried every different type of therapy, everything from talk therapy to— what is it— EMDR, psychedelics, to like group sessions, to somatic. So many different ones, and just trying to unpack who am I. And I initially started it just trying to see if there's any way that I could change parts of myself to try to fix the marriage or try to keep it together. You know, at least for the kids. And then that was my initial goal. And then as I continued to work on myself, I realized that, hey, I need to do this for me to make me the best person I possibly can. So, you know, whatever happens over there, all that aside, that I'm in a good place, that I'm solid. So, and then moving forward, I'm not just looking at the past, but I'm actually looking at the future and looking at where I am now. So, there were so many things that I uncovered. And just patterns that I spotted that stemmed from my own childhood. You know, my own— I grew up in a very controlling family, and, you know, I thought that control equated to love just because that's how I was raised.

Mm-hmm.

And realizing, no, that's not— control isn't love. Love isn't control. You know, it's letting go. It's allowing the other person to have their own experience as well and not trying to force your ideals or your views on them. So there was a lot of things to unpack just from my childhood. Trying to think of a specific one, I mean, part of it was just taking a bigger leadership role in my own life and not just kind of going through the motions, but actually being much more conscious and aware of this is what I want, this is what I'm moving towards, and this is how I do it. And thinking, thinking before I speak.

That would be a big one.

You know, and not just, oh, it popped into my head, so I have to say it. But okay, how does what I'm saying affect someone else? Am I being empathetic to where they are in life or trying to understand and not just judging? I was very judgmental for a very long time. I grew up in a family that was, was and still is very judgmental in a lot of aspects. But everyone has their own story. Everyone has their own journey and where they are, and you can't judge where someone is. Unless you've walked in their shoes. And so having that realization, it gave me a lot of compassion and empathy for others to move forward.

Yeah, man, listen, like, control doesn't equal love. Love equals letting go. Like, that's, that's a powerful message. And I've had that same thing. Like, one of my core programs is impatience, trying to control. And those two do really well sometimes in business to a certain degree. If you could refine that and use it like as a superpower versus a weakness, it can kind of serve you, but I've noticed myself move into that. Another key thing too, and I heard it, I don't know if you, like you said it explicitly, but it was like, you don't want to necessarily control any environment. You want to let go of it. And I think that there's a kind of like a surrendering that has to take place. And you mentioned kind of like at some point there's an integrity level that you want to uphold for yourself. What is it in terms of integrity now that you see yourself wanting to live up to?

Well, I think the point you're making is non-attachment. So it's just letting go of that need for control, but then also knowing the standards that you have and your sense of ethics and morals and holding yourself to that. And I've gotten much clearer on that with myself as far as, you know, never lie, cheat, or steal. And don't associate with anyone who does because that will come back to bite you. And, you know, in the past I would have friends and acquaintances that, you know, they might not have been the most honest all the time. And I got to this point, it's like, I'm not even gonna associate with people like that, you know, because I don't want to— I don't want to be around them. I don't want that energy.

Right.

I don't want to be associated with them. And I want to be around people that— who are like me. They have a certain level of consciousness. And a sense of ethics that you don't have to second-guess, are they telling the truth or not?

Honor—

listen to what people say, but pay attention to what they do, because that's where the rubber meets the road. People will say a lot of things, but if they don't follow through, then they're probably not someone you want to fully trust or spend that much time with.

Yeah. I'm just thinking like people pleasing can lead to people not intentionally misleading people, but I think that's the level of honesty that if you can get to in your life where like literally you're not afraid to tell the truth and be vulnerable, and this takes a lot of deep work too with yourself in order to be able to want to be vulnerable with people and share and know your own weaknesses better than your competition might even know them. Like, if you can literally not sabotage yourself, but if you can like identify everything before someone else can, like, that's power, you know, versus like being afraid they're going to find you out. And I like the idea of just, you know, whatever you're speaking is different than your actual actions. And I'm only saying this because as being a parent now, it's revealed a whole new level for me in terms of honesty. Like, I've caught myself not doing things in front of my kids because it's like, I don't want them to see that, but it's okay for me to do it. I'm like, well, wait a minute. That's not, I don't want that to be the way I influence my kids. I want them to experience the things. And if I'm ashamed of this, right, I don't think I should be doing in front of my kids because it's going to negatively influence them, then why am I doing this? And I've had to really face some hard, cold truths on this. And one of them being for me was sobriety. Like I didn't want my kids to associate drinking and having fun. And I don't have any judgment on other people doing this, but for me in my own like vision of my kids, I was like, I need to drop this. 'Cause then I was like, I didn't want my kids to see my— see me drink. And it's like, but well, that's not being honest. That's not integrous. So I'm like, okay, well, what could I do differently? So then I just decided to literally just stop drinking. And I've noticed now other things emerge from it because it's not just substance. It could be dopamine addiction from your phone if you're on your phone in front of your kids, right? Like there's just so many layers to it. And what I've seen that transfer to, I don't know if you've had similar paths, but it's like that goes into your business relationships as well. Because like you just start to embody that same person of that high-level integrity that you want to be. And from there, I mean, listen, like integrity and actual truth being told is a rarity nowadays where like if you see influencers and people online, that's not the full story, right? Like that's not exactly what they're showing you, a snapshot of their life, but it's like, you know, they might be judging people even though they're telling you not to judge people. And they're like living this, but they're actually not living this. So there's a layer of this fluff that exists out there, and I'm just very much in the rabbit hole. Same with you, of like, I want to hang out with people that I can trust and truly know that what they're saying is what they're doing. And every— everyone else can do their own thing. I don't, I don't judge it, but I just know I don't want to be involved in it anymore.

Yeah, no, I agree with that. There's a couple points here, like on the judgment side. What if I went from being very judgmental to nonjudgmental at all, and I kind of swung back towards the middle, realizing that we all judge? And even though we say, oh, I'm not judging, no, we all are because it's ingrained in who we are. And that's what protects us from our very early days as a species on the planet. If we were constantly having these micro-judgments of, is this person safe? Is that person safe? Is there a lion over there that's going to eat me?

Right.

And so we're doing that constantly. And that's not a bad thing. That's based on It's wired into us, but also our own experiences in life. And so, can we trust? Can we not? So, we can't ever fully get away from that. And that's not a bad thing necessarily. So, and I've kind of come full circle with it. So, it's a— but I feel like it's a lot more balanced and judging it on its merits as opposed to just because that's what— how I was raised. So, this is good. This is bad, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah. And so, But looking at what people do as opposed to what they say, and I try to live my life as an open book as much as possible. I want there to be congruency in who that I say that I am, who I am out in the world, and who I am behind closed doors. Like, if somebody, if they threw open the kimono and they could see everything about who I am, if that's just so consistent that they're— I don't feel like I have anything to hide. That's a much better way to live.

Oh yeah.

Because like you said before, I think there's a lot of celebrities and others who they live multiple different lives, one in the public eye, one in the private eye, or their own private life. And so I'm constantly asking myself, how can I keep those as congruent as possible? What you see out there versus what you see here, can I keep that as consistent so that I never have anything to hide? And so what you see is what you get.

Yeah, and it's so much less effort, like not having to live multiple lives and keep up this facade that isn't you. Because I've done it, like I've been on that side. And when I catch myself doing it, I'm like, oh, I'm aware of it now. And the key is like to actually, it's not that you're perfect. And even in judging, I'm aware of the judgment and I can see it that it might not be actually part of me. It's a mechanism I can use as a tool. To your point, it's useful, but I don't have to get involved so much emotionally on that level. I can just be like, you know, oh, well that doesn't check check this box, so therefore I want to hang out with this person. And I quote unquote judge them, but I'm not emotionally like charged at them. And I'm not carrying that with me. I think that's the key difference from what I've noticed, at least.

Yeah, I agree with that. I think if more people would look at it like that, the world would be a much better place. We wouldn't have these two sides that are constantly fighting with each other where we're just— we're showing everything. I mean, you know, politicians are a great example of this, what they're saying to public versus what they're doing in their personal lives or how they're making money and, you know, backroom deals. Yeah, I mean, hypocrisy surrounds us.

Yeah. Well, that's good though. I talked with this, another friend of mine was like, the way to change politics or leadership isn't to focus on the problem. It's to focus on the consciousness level of the collective of people. So if we're all working on ourselves, Working on our own past beliefs, past traumas, the collective consciousness is going to emerge new leaders and it's going to take time, but there's going to be an evolution that happens. And I think people get focused on like the problem instead of the actual solution, which isn't, you know, how can we elect better leaders? It's how can we level up ourselves so that better leaders emerge from this new collective consciousness that we're putting together. But I don't want to go too deep in the ether on that side. That's like a deeper conversation. Yeah.

No, I agree with that. I mean, I would just say that, you know, we're often looking outside and saying this person needs to be better, but instead, what if we were looking in and saying, how can I be better?

100%. So let's circle back to the business side too, because I want to do a good mix of like, you know, business, emotions, and personal. When you're looking back at yourself, whenever you started in business, if you have advice for like young entrepreneurs, new business leaders that are coming out, and just Going through what you've been through, what's your advice to them? What's like the most impactful thing that you could impart with them?

Well, it's been very long and circuitous. And if you would've told me, you know, 20 years ago, this is where I'd be sitting, what I'd be doing, I would not have believed you. Yeah, I always wanted to own my own business. Like I mentioned before, I went to college for business and studied marketing and management. And I always knew that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to own. own business of some type, but I didn't know what it was. I think as I look back and kind of that golden thread of things, it's all been serving others, helping other people, and finding what I'm good at and what I enjoy— to an extent what I enjoy, but what I'm good at and how I can bring value to other people. I think it was Zig Ziglar or someone like that back in the day that said, if you want to, you can get everything in life you want if you help enough other people get what they want. And I've always looked at— you're familiar with the Japanese concept of ikigai? Yeah, so like kind of that Venn diagram. And I look at that as far as in business, as far as what you enjoy, what you're good at, what— where there's a need in the market, or what someone will pay you for. And if you're able to do that, then I feel that that's— that helps you to kind of be your guiding star to move towards that, to do things that can help you to succeed and that you enjoy and it's not just a drudge. But then there's also so many people that will tell you, follow your passion or do what you love and the money will follow. Well, that's not necessarily true or good advice because if there's no need in the market for it or if there's no demand, you're going to be broke. So, that's not true. So, I think it's having those 3 things. You got to make sure that, yeah, you enjoy it. Yeah, you're good at it. But there's also demand too. And I've used the formula over, over the past 15 or 20 years for success, and that's do the right things long enough consistently. Because then that goes back into the self-discipline that we were talking about. Because most people, they'll— they have an idea and they'll start something, but they're not consistent with it. They don't follow through. They don't just keep doing those right things over a long enough period of time, or they're not consistent with it. Because consistency, I feel like that is the—

The key.

The bread and butter. That's the secret sauce that will help you to succeed. And most people, they're not willing to do that.

Yeah. And not to get like all generational, but I think that there's lack of consistency sometimes where there needs to be an instant payoff because of the way our brains are starting to be wired with like more dopamine loops happening and more instant gratification. I think the consistency is going to be one of the biggest skill sets anybody can actually carry with them, where if you do enough things over time, you're going to beat out your competition because they just can't keep up the stamina of what you're doing. And having that is kind of like a North Star. I think it's really important for especially younger people coming in the business and applying those. I love those ones. How can people work with you? Or like, what are you looking to— who are you looking to work with and what are you doing these days? Like, what's the next big thing for you?

Yeah, I mean, right now my primary focus is growing Wild Mass. We're a B Corp certified brand of all-natural oral, hair, and skincare products. Although we primarily focus in oral care. And so I'm— we're— we work with a lot of holistic and biological dentists because our products are cleaner than anything else out there. They work better. We don't use the toxic ingredients that most others do. So that's my primary focus, although I do take on a few consulting clients here or there, usually who are doing big things or interested in doing big things, and people who really want to grow and they're looking to use my years of experience And breadth of knowledge and connections to kind of help facilitate that growth a little more.

Yeah, I love it. I love the wellness products. I love the Reweld gear. I think it's a really cool brand that I know you guys are still like growing it, but, and it's like a passion project for you, but it's really cool. I'm going to get into some personal questions. These are like a kind of a rapid-fire round. I used to have like 10, but now I have like, I picked my top 3.

Okay.

What book changed your life?

Joey, there's so many. I am a voracious reader. Can I give you 2?

Sure.

Okay. One is going to be more like the personal self-development. And that's It Didn't Start With You by Mark. That book is about intergenerational trauma and how it gets passed down epigenetically. And so often there are those things that come up for us and like, it just doesn't feel like mine. Where's this coming from? Why do I have this pattern in my life? And so it helps you to unpack and uncover some of that and then kind of process it and let it go. The business book that I would say is Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi. And I read this many years ago, and it drastically changed my, my life and my outlook on business because it's all about how you can connect with others more authentically. And never eat alone, like eat dinners and lunches and coffees and things with people to connect. And so it changed my outlook on business because every time I meet someone for the first time, my initial thought is, Who do I know already that I can connect this person with where it's going to be a mutually beneficial relationship in some capacity? And so that's been my outlook every time I'm networking or meeting people, anything in business, and just how can I serve? How can I be of value to this person and the other people that I know?

Nice. I did read that book a long time ago, but I think it's worth a reread. Yeah, great ones. And I'll check out the other— what was the title of the first one?

It Didn't Start With You by Mark Wolin.

Mark Wolin. Okay. Yeah, we'll include those in the show notes as well. Question number 2, what's one thing you'd want to celebrate in a year from today if we were meeting back up?

That would be hitting a financial goal for Wellness. I just had a full day meeting with my CEO 2 days ago, we're planning our goals for the year. So that would be one. Yeah, then I mean, there's some personal goals in there, like relationally and things like that, that would be nice to celebrate as well.

Yeah. Well, then maybe there's a bucket list item, but what is one bucket list item that you haven't done? Because I know you're like an avid traveler, you're doing all these things, you're all around the world, but is there like something you haven't done yet that's still like, I gotta do that?

Hmm, I need to go back and look at that list. I haven't updated it much recently. As far as travel goes, I have not been to Greece or Iceland yet, so those Those are 2 countries that I would really like to see because just how beautiful they are. So I would throw those out there. Yeah, we'll leave those for now.

I love that. Greece is on the vision board for me, and Iceland has definitely been a place that I wanted to visit. I had a few friends go out there and like, it looks amazing. So yeah, if you're going there, let me know. Maybe we'll meet up.

Okay.

Sounds good.

Awesome. Seth, man, it's been a pleasure chatting with you. Just also really unpacking the personal side, which I'm super passionate about talking. So thank you for sharing, being vulnerable today. Any last words you want to share with the audience?

Live a good life. Be someone that your children and your friends and family can be proud of. Put your best foot forward and leave it all on the table and leave nothing to hide.

Love it. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank everyone here for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode. And we'll also include all the links in the show notes to all what Seth has going on. And until then, see you soon. Take care.

Thanks, Joey.

Hey, it's Joey. One more thing. If you want to go deeper in everything we just talked about today, you can go to realinfluencenow.com and you can find that link in the show notes, the description, or type it in the old-fashioned You can subscribe to our newsletter and a couple times a week I'll be sending you the latest episodes we release along with additional free trainings and lessons as well as some other great bonuses as we continue expanding the Real Influence community. As always, I hope this episode inspired you to make one change or continue on the path you've started with a little more motivation. And if you like this episode, it'd be an honor to receive your rating, a comment, a thumbs up on the show notes.

Thanks, Seth.

And share with a friend who you think would benefit from the conversations we're having together on a weekly basis. Don't forget to jump over to the site, and I'll see you in the next episode. Until then, keep striving for real influence in your life.

Thank you.