Cross Country Coparenting With Six Kids And Multiple Businesses - Seth Spears from Welnesse

This boy and girl are going to be well equipped when the time comes to take their places as worthy members of adult society.

Aloha, y'all. This is Daniel Eisenman, the host of the Breaking Normal podcast, where my guests are all invited based on the frequency of synchronicity, all done in person, and all trailblazers in the breaking of all things normal. Aloha, y'all.

Welcome back to the Breaking Normal podcast. This is the intro for the interview I just did with Seth Spears, who runs the company Wellness. You may have used their micro hydroxyapatite toothpaste. I have been using it and I love it. He also has a company with his brother called Rewild Gear. And this conversation may have been one of the most impactful podcasts I've done. This is probably episode 150 or so. And really, we dove into the realm of what's most personal is most universal, as I did ask Seth if there's anything that he did not want to talk about. And he basically explained everything, everything and anything, and that the more personal, the better. Um, I trust y'all can hear me okay. There's some dog action in the background. And if you're watching the video intro of this, you'll probably notice I'm tanner than I've ever been. I would really like to, uh, give credit or a lot of credit to The Bison Tallow Balm from Tribe Vitamins. It does have a natural SPF of 4. I definitely don't treat it as a sunblock, but more of a sun synergizer and a skin superfood. It does have vitamins A, D, E, and K. And for y'all that know that bioavailable vitamin A, also known as retinol, is one of the best things not only for our skin, but our hair, nails, vision, teeth. I did just get my driver's license renewed and I did pass the eye exam. I do think the Tri-Vitamin, specifically the Bison Liver Plus Heart, is really improving my vision. And I'm not the only person that would say this. I have a friend that's been a customer for a while that claims that she can see at night again because of the Tri-Vitamins. So this is your hearts up to get some Tri-Vitamins today. And actually, if you listen to this podcast before Monday, That might be like July 1st or so, and you use the code— what code should I use? Let's use BREAKINGNORMAL. Then you will get a discount on your order. That's a rare thing, but right now we're pretty fully stocked on some of our items. And if you want America's original multivitamin, get that bison liver. If you want nature steroids, get that elk antler, which we might be sold out of, but we're restocking currently. If you want nature's testosterone support, Don't go to the pharmacy first. Try our bison testicles first. And we are very low on stock in that, but we constantly restock. We do things in micro batches. I do believe we are the best in the industry. And, um, I trust you enjoyed this interview with Seth. We really dove deep into the world of co-parenting. He's actually currently co-parenting from Florida to Colorado with 6 Children. And I think that was what the majority of the conversation was about. We also did talk about his companies and what hydroxyapatite is and why it's probably a better choice than the neurotoxin known as fluoride. But really what struck me the most was realizing how one of the most effective ways to decrease polarity in a relationship might be dipping the pen in the company ink, if you know what I'm saying, AKA— Bringing your love life into your work life. And I have some pretty strong convictions after this interview. And instead of sharing them now, I'll let you hear it from Seth's mouth and his experience. Not only does he have 6 kids, he's the oldest of 6 children. Comes from a strong Sicilian family. And the fact that His gear company is so similar to the subtitle of Breaking Normal, Rewild Your Inner Child and Set the Truth Free. I trust we effectively set the truth free, not only for ourselves, but for things for you to consider. And I would love to have a conversation with anyone that wants to about this idea of decreasing or increasing polarity by not working or working with your partner. Holy moly. It's, uh, it was a big— that was a big theme of this interview for me. I'm very thankful for you, Seth. Uh, thanks for breaking normal. Hey, and if y'all have, um, a guest suggestion for the next show, we're gonna keep it consistent here on the podcast. And, uh, one of the better, better ways to keep getting better guests are if y'all can subscribe, follow the show, leave a review. I know hundreds of you have already done that. And, um, I'm watching a wrestling match now. They're wrestling for fun. Last time I was at the park, there was 2 old guys who were actually fighting not for fun, and I helped intervene because no one was doing anything. And I realized, wow, I can't just assume that this is going to be taken care of. And I didn't want to just sit there and potentially watch them hurt themselves. So I had a strong reminder of right before this interview with Seth that When you see someone that needs assistance, don't assume they already have assistance. Maybe see if you can help and to be careful about it, to be discerning about it, but to be a good neighbor, a good community member. And I do believe most of y'all that listen to the show are that. So let's keep growing and glowing with the flow of life and keep breaking normal, baby. Let's go.

Aloha, y'all. All right. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm here with a recent new friend. On his chest has the word impossible, but kind of like scratched out. That's interesting. And he's sitting in the throne. Uh, his name is Seth Spears. He runs a company that you may know as Wellness.

Wellness.

Wellness. And, uh, are you the Rewild?

Yeah, Rewild Gear's still there. It's my fun little passion side project.

Well, those are 2 of infinite things. We'll see what we can scratch the surface of during this conversation. Thanks for joining me.

Yeah, man.

How do you think we know each other?

I think it was an introduction from either Matt Chandler or Matt Smith.

Matt Chandler.

Yeah, Chandler. Okay.

I remember meeting you at North Boulder Park, I believe, and we were playing volleyball.

Yes.

And Matt Chandler introduced us.

But I think we had connected via text before that.

That is possible because you, you and I seem to run in a lot of similar circles. You do the baby Bathwater stuff sometimes?

I've been a part of Baby Bathwater for many, many years.

Okay. Yeah, I interviewed Hollis once.

Okay.

Yeah, there's probably a lot of connections we can make around that. But what I will say, what I remember about you in that, um, time at the volleyball, uh, grass courts there— there goes the construction in the background. I trust my friend Casey will edit that out, or it's not too much for y'all. But, um, you were playing volleyball because I, I don't even play much volleyball, and I don't know how much you play, but I could tell you took the play seriously. This guy is like, we were both sliding around. I remember you taking a big slide in this wet grass. I'm like, what the heck is this? And age-wise, I don't think most people would say you're a young gun. The 6 kids you have, what are your ages range of the kids?

My oldest is 17 and my youngest is 8.

Okay. I'm very excited about talking about that as well. But I do want to say that, that I was like, because the subtitle of my book, Breaking Normal, which is the name of this podcast, is Rewild Your Inner Child and Set the Truth Free.

Love that.

And I would— that's kind of how I saw you. I was like, yeah, I'd love to meet this guy.

Yeah, you know, I've always been really competitive, and especially when it comes to sports, uh, I tend to just put it all out there on the field, whether that's basketball or swimming or volleyball, pickleball, whatever the case may be. Uh, I just love to compete, love to just get out there and get after it and have fun and just move my body. And, you know, I'd much prefer to play sports than go to a gym and work out. So to me, like, going to a gym is a pitiful excuse for actually doing thing that you enjoy, that's fun.

I like that. Yeah, I was just listening to a podcast today, I think with Tim Ferriss and the guy that created Gymnastics Bodies.

Okay.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with that program, but my brothers got involved with that at one point. And you have lots of siblings. How many siblings?

So I'm the oldest of 6 kids. I have 4 brothers and 1 sister. Oldest of 6.

Oldest of 6 and you have 6. Okay.

Yeah.

Wow, wow, wow. What a life you live. But the guy, and this guy's top-notch performance coach. I think he might be the coach of the Olympic national team for the US.

Gymnastics?

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Or he's involved in that. He has an awesome online program. And one of the things I remember that podcast today was he was explaining he's never seen someone that just lifts weights at the gym that's super strong perform better than the athlete that puts the play first. He's just never seen it. He can't find— and he was asking Tim Ferriss if he ever saw an exception.

That's really interesting. I never thought about that, but it makes sense because if you're playing a sport or being active, it's functional. If you're lifting a weight, that's not really functional. Like, our ancestors didn't go around just like, oh, we're just going to lift this rock just to get bigger biceps, you know? I mean, they were lifting rocks to build a house or to make a bridge or something like that.

Yeah. So I think, I mean, I think that's a big point. And I think that's a big point when you're talking about competition as being a good thing, the good parts of competition, especially in sport, especially growing up in a family with 5 other siblings you're competing against, you being the oldest. That's interesting because I think sometimes the best at— there might be a correlation. I may have learned this from someone and then I just keep seeing it in my life that a lot of times the best athletes in the world in their sport are a youngest sibling.

Or a younger sibling. Yeah, because they've gotten beaten up by their older siblings and they're trying to keep up and they got to compete. It's either put up or shut up, you know.

And 18 years of that, like, being your first 18 years of just struggling to try to get closer to winning.

Well, you know, when I look at myself compared to, like, my younger siblings and my youngest brother, uh, he's a very good basketball player.

Um, what's his name?

His name is Joseph. He was actually just ordained as a Catholic priest.

Wow.

Almost 2 weeks ago. Yeah. Um, and so he grew up competing against all of his older siblings, and yeah, he's probably naturally the best at basketball in the family. Uh, I would say that I am probably the best natural athlete as far as just naturally the most athletic, whether that's balance or just can adapt to any sport. Uh, but you know, some of my siblings are better at one sport than, than some of the others. But Joe is probably the best naturally at basketball because that was the sport that growing up in Kentucky that we all kind of played quite a bit. And I'm also the shortest of the siblings. He is probably the—

That's interesting. You're the shortest. For some reason, I feel like a lot of times the first kid gets a lot of like the bigger genetics. I'm not sure if that's a wrong theory or what.

So in my family, we kind of humorously call it the Cianciola curse. So my mom is one of 10 kids, big Italian family. Wow. And a lot of family. Yeah. And so everyone like on that side, the old— the oldest son usually is the shortest. And so we jokingly refer to it as the Cianciolo curse. And Cianciolo is the, the, uh, my mom's maiden name.

What is the height difference from like the shortest to the tallest?

I'm 5'7. I think my brother David is actually the tallest. He's number 5, so he's the second youngest. He's 5'11.

Okay.

All right. So it's not a huge disparity.

No, my father's 6 foot.

Okay.

What are your parents doing right now?

Um, they are— they live in Kentucky still.

Okay.

So they split up a few years ago.

Wow.

Um, yeah, yeah, that was, uh, probably a long time coming, honestly. If 2 people could be more different—

Well, that just brings up such an interesting thing, like an interest— another interesting pattern that I'm thinking about right now in this moment is that Because you and your ex split up.

How—

for how long were y'all married?

Um, we were married 16 years, um, before, uh, together. I'm trying to think of the time frame because by the time the divorce was finalized, we were officially married 16 years. Um, we split up in 2020 and we're kind of back together a little bit early '21. Um, then Like late spring, we officially separated out. And then the divorce was just finalized about a year and a half ago. So it's, you know, it's always a big process, and especially because we had multiple businesses together and so many things intertwined. So it took longer than it should have just because of all of those things that were so intertwined together.

Well, I'm certain that we could do a whole podcast series about this topic alone. How long did y'all's divorce process last?

Um, from the time we filed, it was over a year. Yeah, it was just slightly over a year. Um, but by the time we had decided, we just— to get to that point to actually file, it took a little bit longer just trying to figure out logistical things.

I bet. Was that here in Colorado?

No, it was in Florida.

Florida.

Yeah.

Because you, um, you're doing a co-parenting color— like, you're going to Florida to see your kids and living here in Colorado.

Yeah, you know, that was a massive life change.

We—

I'm not from Florida, I'm from Kentucky originally. And so my former wife and kids and I, we moved down there in 2017 for beaches and taxes.

We were—

had been vacationing down in the Florida Panhandle for a long time, since 2012, I think. And we're just spending a lot of time down there. And then when my parents split up, I was dealing with a lot of the fallout from their separation and divorce. And I was the only kid left in Bowling Green, Kentucky, where we grew up. So I was dealing with all of it, and that was really hard. And I never intentionally moved anywhere, just intentionally. It was always just ended up someplace because of a job or family or whatever. And so we were in that place where Why do we live here? We could live anywhere because we, we work remote. You know, everything is online. We could basically be digital nomads. The only thing, because we were homeschooling the kids. So like, we're vacationing in Florida a lot and we like it down there. So why don't we just go there? Great beaches and the taxes are a lot better. So that was 2017. What I didn't realize was that when you move to a place and you really don't have community, that can make it challenging. And I don't like the heat. I really like 4 seasons, and I love snow and cold weather.

I was born in Miami, and I could totally relate. I love the weather here.

Yeah, exactly. So it really adversely affected me. And then, you know, the marriage just started— some cracks started appearing around 2019, and there was a lot of things that had gotten pushed under the surface for a long time. And my ex-wife is an amazing person, and we're also very different. And I didn't realize how different we were. Partially, that's because some of her trauma is she's very, very conflict avoidant and people pleasing. And she would just go along with things, even if she didn't necessarily like it or agree with it, just because she wanted to keep the peace. And then as she started doing work on herself, she found her voice.

Yeah.

And so there's a lot of resentment that had built up over the years, and then it just kind of blew up. And, you know, I own my part in that as well. There's a lot of things that I was not recognizing that needed to happen within the nature of the relationship. And I had gotten out of the habit of doing a lot of things that needed to happen within the household. And the polarity within the relationship really got messed up. working together in business. And that can be really challenging. And I love that aspect of it for so many years and it worked great until it didn't.

The polarity, meaning it like decreased or increased?

The polarity decreased because working together. Yeah, there was no separation. You know, I ran a boutique digital marketing firm for several years and I used the business that we started together as a testing ground for my paying clients. And we built this amazing health and wellness business together, content, education, information, and podcast, and I was testing out different strategies and things to, to see what would work for my paying clients. This test worked really good. And then I got really burnt out on client services and went all in on growing this business together with her. And in so doing, I started acquiescing to her in all the business decisions because she was the face of the brand and I didn't want to fight about things. And so instead of just fighting or things that I disagreed with or thought better of, I would just go along with it. And because of that, I lost a lot of my power. And that really messed up the polarity within the relationship, that dynamic. And that's so challenging anyway. And then when you work together, it makes it even more so. And so I think that was kind of— that was the thing that snuck in there to really affect so many other areas within the relationship.

Wow. Well, I can relate to this on so many different ways and similar ways. The burnt out on clients Services, meaning that— does that mean you went from like a service-based business to a product-based business that you worked together with your wife on where she was the face of the brand promoting the products? Is that what I'm understanding?

Sort of. So I had a boutique digital marketing firm called Spears Marketing where I was working with clients on website design, SEO, social media, and helping them to grow their businesses. I work with a lot of local businesses, service providers, and then I got into like the health and wellness space and bloggers and people like that. And then around that same time, she was creating this brand and I built out all the websites for it and worked on the SEO strategy. And, you know, she was an amazing journalist and researcher and I edited all of the content for her for so many years.

And just for people that are not familiar, what is this brand? Still exists?

Yeah, it's called Wellness Mama.

Okay.

Just super popular blog and podcast in the health and wellness space designed for, for moms and parents.

Wow. Oh yeah.

Okay.

And I don't know if you were gonna— I didn't want to cut you off if you were to keep going.

No, go ahead.

Okay.

Wow.

Yeah, that, uh, I just think that's such a huge— because I've heard that like the idea, I think there was like a meme like, don't dip the pen in the company ink, meaning like you can't date people that you're working with.

Yeah.

But I never I didn't believe in that. I don't believe in that. I think, like, you know, I think in a way all is fair in love and war. And if you love a coworker, Sure. Maybe you gotta tell her or him or whatever, you know, if it's, uh, most important to you. That might be more important than your job.

Yeah.

And, um, at the same time though, this is— now this is, if you apply, don't dip your And the company Inc., in the sense of if y'all already have this like spark, maybe it's not best to work together. You know, I remember, and I'm saying this about myself too, I'm like reflecting on my relationships. I'm like, man, I got to be careful about this.

Totally. I very specifically remember I was standing in my office back in Kentucky, um, and I just had a really rough week. I had had a couple of really bad clients that I had to fire. I had my full-time developer quit and it was just real— it was a really challenging week. And I'm like, what am I doing? I enjoy this. I'm good at it. I'm building up a really good name and reputation for myself. And then over here on the side, it's this business that I have with my now ex-wife, my wife at the time, that has so much potential. And I could continue doing what I'm doing. And then this thing on the side is making really good money. And I think it had surpassed what I was actually making with the agency by then. So I'm like, okay, I can take a step back from doing this and go all in on that. I get to work with her, which sounds great.

That's, that's the part that I'm really caught up on, how great that sounds.

Yeah, sounds fantastic. I'm like, okay, this would also be the best thing for my family. We're going to be able to help way more people. And my ego is probably going to take a hit because she's the face of it and I'm going to be in the back end. And you know what? That's a sacrifice that I'm willing to make for the good of my family and for what the potential of this could be. And it did. And I don't regret it because it afforded so— such an amazing lifestyle, so many friendships and business opportunities and just getting to be in rooms with amazing people and helping so many people in the health space. And it's what led into the company that I started with her at the time, Wellness. So I don't regret it, but I do think that it— but by making that decision, it did play a drastic role in the demise of the relationship.

Yeah, I would like— and without going into the details, I could probably confess the same thing for me. Yeah, it's like such a temptation for me because I love doing— I, um, I love the work that I do, and I love the few partners that I've committed to living and being with. I love them. But, and then I like want to bridge the gap, and what a mistake that could be. Like, what a— not a thing I might— I'm gonna consider not doing anymore.

Yeah, you know, I think everyone's wired differently. For some men that are wired for that type of partnership, or they like having that support, that's so tempting. And like anything, there's also an underside of it that isn't as desirable. The fact that you can so focus within that, within the partnership of it, as opposed to your purpose, as opposed to what you're trying to create. And that You can lose that polarity because it's always about what we're doing together outside of the relationship. It's in business. And then you're bringing that home and that's everything you're conversing about. And so then that dynamic, it's more on this completely level playing field. And that, that's not really attractive. You know, that doesn't— that's not what attracts a man to a woman or vice versa.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't know if this is a rule for everyone, kind of like you were giving the disclaimer of, but I would affirm like what you're saying, that like, I'm not— I don't think I'm gonna— I'm gonna aim not to do that.

I mean, and there's also cases of people doing it very well. I mean, if you look at like Alex and Leila Hormozi.

I was thinking about them, right? I was thinking about them as this conversation was going on.

So I mean, I would consider them a power couple, and they do all of the stuff together, and they make it work. I mean, granted, I think they've only been married for what, 4 or 5 years maybe. So not—

And we never know what's going on behind the scenes, which is such a ridiculous thing to think. Like, because I think Diana and I, my ex, were like the dream. Like, so many people like looked up to our relationship.

Yeah.

And I would say, hey, y'all should have. And certain parts of our relationship, we were— that was the best. That was epic. Yeah. Um, but it's not an accurate picture. Just look at our social media highlights and think that's what our relationship always is.

I've got a really good friend who has— that I quote him all the time when it comes to social media. Social media is an obfuscated lens in which we see the world because we are only seeing the highlights of what everyone else is posting. We're not seeing the reality. We're not seeing the hard times, the negative side of it, the flip side of it. And if we are, it's because someone is usually oversharing and intentionally they're still curating what negative aspects that they want to show. Yeah, that's true. So which makes for a good show as well.

Right, exactly.

So that can make it really tough. So we don't really know the truth. Everyone is going through something that we know nothing about.

Yeah, that's, that's important to know. I mean, yeah, the relationship and then the— gosh, y'all, it's because, um, I went through my version of that with, uh, one beautiful child. To do that with 6 children.

Yeah.

And I, I will say that I am extremely, um, happy. I feel very blessed for how I— like, I feel like I didn't know I was ever going to do this in my life, and I was given this opportunity by God to, like, stay faithful and really do what's best. And I feel like, for the most part, I'm very happy how I was able to do that. But I've also confided with a lot of men that seem to have a terribly worse situation going through a divorce with children. Yeah.

I've had so many conversations with friends who are going through a divorce, and it's, it's so much worse. I was talking to a guy in the sauna yesterday that it sounds like his ex is about to take him for a ride. And I, I've been incredibly blessed that it was mostly amicable. You know, there's been times I've had to bite my tongue. Things are going on or whatever that, you know, doesn't matter. But for the good of my children and to protect them, that I had to keep my mouth shut and didn't lash out and just didn't say things that I could have. Um, that's really hard, especially when you're Sicilian and revenge is what you lean into. And if somebody hurts you or your family or your friends, you want to make them pay. So that can be really challenging at times. Um, but yeah, I've been incredibly blessed in that it's been way easier than so many people.

Yeah, that, um, what do you think? I mean, I think you nailed— what is the saying? You nailed the head on the hand or whatever.

Nailed it on the head.

Yeah, with the idea that you wanted to say so many things, but for the sake of your children, you did not. Yeah, because I— maybe not the Sicilian, maybe it's the the Jews that survived the Holocaust, my grandparents, um, that like I tolerate zero BS usually.

Same.

And but then when it comes to, uh, what's best for my daughter, all rules, like all's fair in love and war. I have no— I'm like almost, I think, as egoless as I come when it comes to the well-being. When I think about the well-being of my daughter, I believe I'm getting close with that. And that's what, that's what helped me. That's what, you know, praying, relationship with God that created this for me, and my daughter being the guiding light of what to do, that, that really humbled me. And I think that's why it went as well as it did.

Sure.

Um, but I guess I'm just thinking about those guys. Is that the issue with the other men or fathers going through divorce? Because, you know, I hear stories, I'm like, wait, what happened? Like, really? Like that, that seems biased. That seems like maybe the court systems are not in favor of fathers going through divorce with children.

100% agree with that. They're definitely not. They're definitely lean. They do favor the mother. And I understand why. Women are natural caretakers more than men. So it makes sense that they would lean towards giving the priority there to the mother. So I don't necessarily have a problem with it. Where it gets challenging and where the issue lies is that when the wife, the ex-wife, is trying to take the husband, the ex-husband, for everything and like use the child or the children as a pawn in that game. And, you know, maybe she's got something on the side or she's looking at what's next and the father just wants to do what's best for his kids and won't fight. Because of that, because he wants to take care of her, him, them. And I've seen that in so many cases. And again, I'm incredibly blessed that that did not happen within my situation.

Wow, that's also a good point. I never— I haven't thought much about the aspect of how the father might rationalize not fighting for time or whatever it is with their children, that they might be doing that to protect their children. Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a tough one because, I mean, every situation is different.

Like, I have a friend who's going through a divorce right now, and her ex, uh, very controlling, very domineering, very narcissistic, and is using their child as a pawn, and she's attempting not to. So it goes both ways, or can go both ways. However, it seems like in this day and age, I'm seeing more where the women are using the children as pawns. And again, maybe that's just my experience, like, with people that I know, with friends, with associates, with conversations that I'm having. So I don't want to speak for everyone.

Well, crazy enough, I think it's a state-by-state thing. Yeah, just like a lot of these weird laws that the United States sometimes enforces, it's a state-by-state thing. And, and it's an age of the kids by thing. Like, I think in Colorado, in Denver, and Boulder, and maybe the whole state, maybe not, maybe it's county by county. They don't look at it as a mom and dad, but they look at it as, uh, 2 parents. They can't, they can't be biased by the sex unless the mother's still breastfeeding. There's like some kind of law like that.

Oh, interesting. Okay.

Whereas like in California, that's not the case. No, that is not the case. And then you have your, you know, your personal biases from the judge alone.

Of course.

What a situation that so many people are facing.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's very hard. I mean, you know, divorce is the most painful thing that I've ever gone through for sure. And it's also been the biggest impetus for growth in my life too, because when my ex-wife told me that she didn't want to be married anymore, it was like, what the fuck? My entire life is about to get thrown upside down. What do I do? And so it pushed me into the deepest attempt at originally trying to, quote unquote, fix myself for her, then for the kids, then for myself. And I say fix in quotes because there was nothing wrong with me, but I thought that I had to be something different in order to be worthy of love. And that goes back to my own childhood trauma from, like, my, my own wounding from my parents thinking that love had to be earned, that it was conditional. And, you know, that just brought up so much and triggered the shit out of me, all my own wounding and trauma from childhood. And, but then that has been a huge impetus for growth, for me to become a much better version of myself. So, I mean, I wasn't a bad father, but I was not a good father. Well, I was an okay father. Mediocre, I'd say. So part of what has changed so much for me, I mean, I've done such a deep dive on relationships and personal development and how to be the best version of myself. And 2 years ago, you know, the marriage is over. I was in my house that I had purchased that's separate from where my ex and the kids were. I'm sitting in my sauna and listening to a podcast, which I do pretty much every day when I'm in Florida.

Ritual right there.

Yeah. And I can't even— I'm a voracious reader, listener, learner. I just love to learn, to grow and improve myself. And so I was listening to a business podcast. Don't remember what it was, just this really good conversation, some business topic. And I started thinking, I haven't had a conversation like this since I've been in Florida. You know, it is the only thing to do here is go to the beach and drink.

Where in Florida were y'all, by the way?

In the Panhandle.

Okay.

Yeah, North Florida, Santa Rosa Beach.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

So between Destin and Panama City.

Yeah, you can get some good surf there on a hurricane swell.

Yeah, that's the only time you get good surf typically.

So, uh, real good though. Yeah.

Um, so I was listening to this podcast and thinking, I haven't had any amazing business conversations since I've been here. I have them with friends in other locations when I travel, but my soul is craving this. I need to be around other entrepreneurs, other business owners, other changemakers, and not just this vacation area where people just come. Their idea of life is we're going to watch football on Saturday, college football. They're not even into the NFL, so that's weird. As a Bengals fan, like, that's appalling to me. Yeah. And then, you know, it's like the same old, same old. And there's people that are very successful. I mean, it's, it's not an inexpensive area, so they have money, but it's not— they're not thinking about their own growth and development. How can they make massive changes in the world, whether that's in business or relationships or whatever? And so I started thinking, okay, I can't stay here. I have nothing here other than my kids. Like, if it wasn't for them, I would leave and never look back, but I have to be here at least for them. So I'm here all the time, at least when I'm not traveling for business or fun or whatever. And they're getting all of me, but they're getting the worst version of me because I don't have community. I'm uninspired. I'm living for them and nothing more. So I started looking at other areas. Colorado is one. Utah was another. Austin, Texas. Montana. So kind of—

Particular parts of Utah or Montana?

Montana.

Bozeman. Just the outdoor space. I have some friends there. there. Utah, uh, Salt Lake, Eden area. I know a lot of entrepreneurs there, okay, uh, as well. Austin, same, great community.

Yeah, Austin's, um, crazy.

Yeah, it's so different than it used to be, but yeah, it's still—

their vibe is still there, especially like at Barton Springs.

Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah, so then I did a plant medicine ceremony. This would have been December of '22, and it became abundantly clear I need to get out of Florida, and Colorado is the place. And I was already thinking about it because I traveled to all these places and was looking around and considering it. And it was just like so abundantly clear. I'm— I have friends there. The mountains, the weather, the nature— that's what my soul needs. Because I had started an outdoor equipment company that we mentioned earlier called Rewild Gear with my brothers and making really high-quality knives and fire starters, backpacking grills, camping utensils, all things really minimalistic and high-quality gear to get people into the great outdoors. And our mission is to inspire men to get into nature. Like, okay, super cool. Yeah. And what came up was like, okay, this is like my fun passion thing and I really like this, but I'm not doing any of that myself. I need to be in nature more. I need to be in real weather, 4 seasons, have some of the extremes. And Florida is obviously not it. Austin, great community, too damn hot. Can't deal with it.

Especially June 1st through about September 31st.

Exactly. Salt Lake, way too many Mormons. That's, yeah. And, you know, and the mountains are great there as well. Great skiing and stuff. But it's also a lot rockier and drier. Bozeman, I really, I love it there. It's like great size, really hard to get back to Florida to see my kids. So it was kind of like the Denver-Boulder area. It's like, I know a lot of people there, close proximity to the mountains. Denver Airport is pretty accessible.

Denver Airport's something else.

Yeah, well, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a thing.

Yeah, I've heard all kinds of things about the airport, and it's a great one. Yeah, like to fly through it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, there's all kinds of conspiracy theories surrounding it.

Oh man, I'm like, I don't know if I'm ready to go down that rabbit hole.

That's a different route. I I've got buddies that go down those rabbit holes and I'm like, okay, whatever. So yeah, so Boulder it was.

Wow.

And so yeah, I made that decision. Okay, I'm going to relocate, but it's not just going to be— that's all, that's all it is. I'm going to live there. So I split time. I've got an apartment here in Boulder and then I have my home in Florida and I'm back and forth. So I spend about 3 weeks out of the month in Colorado and then the Remaining week and a half or so, I'm in Florida with the kids. So when I'm here, I'm in business mode, I'm in work mode, hanging out with friends, grounding, integrating life, spending time in nature. And then when I'm there, I'm in dad mode, spending as much time as I can with them, taking them to their activities, having conversations with them, and just trying to be a part of their lives.

I would imagine as well that one of the best side effects of going through the process of divorce for me And I trust this is the better way to take it for everybody. And it sounds like maybe you as well, is that like, that was a real, I'm going to be the best dad I can be. Like, there was a bit more of a creative— like, the creative constraint of the honor to be a parent became more apparent to me.

Yeah.

And that's— I mean, I feel like I'm constantly learning that lesson. To not assume that this idea is going to manifest in the future when I can do it now.

Yeah, and that's hard. And the thing for me was I can either stay somewhere where the kids get all of me and they get a, a lesser version of me, or I can go somewhere where it lights me up and they're getting less of me, but they're getting a much better version. And so I chose that latter option, and I questioned that Every day I think about, am I doing the right thing?

Yeah, that's a real—

Do my children feel like I'm abandoning them? Like, because I'm not there, I'm missing out on so much of their lives growing up. And it's like, when I'm there all the time, it's— even if I'm with them and I love that, it's like I can't wait to get back to Colorado just because it feels like home. It feels as much like home as any place that I've ever lived.

Yeah, I think we live in an amazing area. I've traveled to all 50 states, and I, I didn't think I was gonna necessarily stay in one spot, but I feel like I got kind of chosen by this little area. Yeah, and this is a great area to be in. That construction, I like wonder, I'm like, I think, I think Casey's got— I think Casey and the headsets have this.

It gives a little character to the, to the live aspect of podcasting for sure, which is fun.

Yeah, that— what happened, what's happening is that there was like a— I think I told you the other day, but there was a $3 million home there. Yeah, someone bought it I guess and tore it down to build probably 3 $3 million condos is my guess.

They look nice. They're gonna be nice.

Yeah, yeah, we live in a cool area. We're all— you listen, you— I can't believe you've lived in Kentucky because I have connections to Kentucky through Hollis. I can't believe you lived in Florida because I was born in Florida, and I can't believe we're both here.

Yeah.

Did you live anywhere else?

Yeah, so I went to school, I went to college in Ohio.

Okay.

Wow. In Steubenville, Ohio, which is right on the Ohio River, neck across from Pittsburgh. So you know where West Virginia comes up into a point?

Kind of.

Yeah. So it goes Steubenville, Weirton, West Virginia, you cross over into Pennsylvania, then you're in Pittsburgh.

Okay.

So I lived there in college, and then I lived in Nashville, Tennessee for 5 years.

What were you doing in Nashville?

That was the last real job that I had, and I was the assistant director of admissions for Aquinas College.

Aquinas?

Aquinas College.

You mean like horse stuff?

No, no, no. Uh, it's named after St. Thomas Aquinas.

Oh, I was thinking like equine. It was a small—

no. Small little Catholic liberal arts college, mainly a nursing school.

Wow. And you were the what?

I was the assistant director of admissions.

How did you end up in that?

Good question. A friend of mine that I went to college with was working in the admissions department, and I had been out of school for a year, and I ran into him at a wedding. Actually, I think it was his wedding. And he's like, what are you doing now? I'm like, I'm trying to figure it out because I'm still bartending and waiting tables. And, uh, he's like, well, I think there's an opening, uh, in the admissions department at the school where I'm working if you're interested. I'm like, yeah, sure, why not? And, uh, yes, I got that job and eventually became the assistant director of admissions, and I mainly was just recruiting students.

Did you like living in Nashville? Nashville is a new hotspot, it seems like.

Yeah, so I was there from 2005 to 2010, and it's grown so much since then. I didn't appreciate it as much when I was there. It was great. Yeah, I made some really good friends there that I still have to this day. But at the time, I did not appreciate it as much as I think I would now. Although I don't— I can't ever see myself going back there just because it's gotten so big and crazy and they don't have the infrastructure for the amount of traffic.

And I wonder what's growing faster per capita between Austin and Nashville.

So I just read an article a couple of weeks ago that Austin is losing residents now. Okay, so, uh, it's like the number 5 town that is seeing a decrease in population because it has such an increase for so long.

Backlash.

And I think people are realizing, hey, the weather here sucks.

Yeah, that weather is tough in the summer. Yeah. And I do love— I want to emphasize though this Boulder thing, and I feel pretty protected in Boulder. It's just like you can't move to— I used to live in Encinitas. It doesn't matter how much talk about Encinitas, there's not going to be many people that move there because it's just the same homes that are going up in value, like, or someone names their price.

Kind of how it is here.

Exactly, exactly. So I feel blessed to have a space for however long I have, and I, and I'll keep, you know, I'm dedicated to living here now. And this is a great— we can get all 4 seasons any season.

Yeah, even in the summer. Yeah, like this morning, I mean, it was like, oh, it's kind of nippy.

I know, it's so cool. And I've— and, and because all the amazing people that travel through here. I feel like because the weather is changing the way it does, with the most consistent thing being the sun, right? Um, and the people that are changing here so fast, I feel like I'm traveling by staying in my own bed.

And I love how much the weather changes. You don't know what you're gonna get. It's like when you're in Florida, it's just hot. It's hot and humid, and I hate that. And a lot of areas are like that, but I really like the diversity of weather that we're constantly getting. Some people hate it, but not me. Keeps you on your toes.

I think people will always find a way to complain about where they're at.

I did that for a very long time. And, you know, I think it's, it's easy to do that. It's— there's things that I could find that I don't like about this area.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, that's really easy to do. But where I'm at in my life now, I'm choosing to focus on what I do like and just lean into that.

It's just kind of like focusing on the kids and leaning into that.

Yeah, you know, I— 6 months ago or so, I found one of my dream books or goal lists or something, and I realized years ago I had written down that I want to split time between the beach and the mountains. Guess what? I'm doing that. Not in the way that I ever anticipated. So the lesson learned there is the universe rewards specificity.

Yeah, I've had the same issue with breaking normal. Because sometimes I just find myself in situations, I'm like, am I doing this by promoting breaking normal?

Maybe.

Because I don't think I meant it in this way. I don't think that— then I find myself in situations like, I don't know if anyone else could relate to this. This is so odd.

Yeah.

Hmm. Anyways, that's something to think about as well.

Yeah, for sure. I think the universe really does reward specificity. Like, if you're trying to manifest something or call in something or focus on a goal, get really clear, get really specific about what you want, and not leave anything to ambiguity.

But isn't it— the mystery though is also a lot of fun, right?

Well, there's that too.

Calling it even more Breaking Normal by confessing, but the mystery is That's super fun. When things that happen are like unexplainable, I'm like, that's— even though this might be pretty tough, this is kind of fun.

I had this realization about a year ago. I'm a recovering control freak, and I want to plan everything out and know exactly what's going to happen and dot my i's and cross my t's. But I also love adventure, and I love just getting— taking a drive in the wilderness and just seeing where I end up. No plan, nothing. What I realized was that the nature of adventure is the unknown. If you know where you're going or what it is, the exact thing, it's not adventurous because it's so planned out and known. It's in the unknown where the fun happens, where the magic happens, where that call to adventure really hits you. And that's really hard for me anyway, to wrap my head around both and want to plan, want to be in control, want to know everything, but also be open.

It seems like that tightrope of consciousness we're aiming to walk across.

Yes.

Yeah, that is— that's an interesting way to put that. Man, I had something like rush into my mind as you were saying that, and I'm neglecting it. Is there anything that you want to make sure that we bring up that we may have not yet? We're 40 minutes in.

Yeah. I mean, we can get into business. We can get into, you know, More of the relationship stuff, the parenting stuff, uh, travel, you know, wherever, wherever you want to take it.

Okay, just making sure. What is, what is it your most— what is most of your time focused on in business right now?

Right now it's Growing Wellness. So that's my brand.

How do people find that?

Yeah, wellnessse.com.

Just in case someone's like proactive and like Googling while listening.

Wellness with an E on the end, so wellnessse.com. So we're a B Corp certified brand of all-natural oral, hair, and skincare products and Primarily oral care. 80% of our business is oral care products. Our bestseller is a fluoride, glycerin, and SLS-free remineralizing and whitening toothpaste. It is the best toothpaste on the market. And, I'm not just saying that because I'm the owner of the company. My motto is quality over quantity. If I can't do the very best with it, I don't want to do it.

Yeah.

Like, I want to make the very best. I want to make change. I want to create change. Like, every product, if I'm going to associate myself with something and put my name on it, it better be the damn best because that's just how I'm wired.

Is that anything to do with being Italian? Do you think?

I don't know if it's that so much as it's how I was raised. And again, there's a flip side to everything and looking for perfection at all times that can get in the way. I mean, Of a lot of stuff. Relationally, yes, very much so. As a parent, yes. Uh, as a dog owner, yes. You know, and in business, it can be a very good skill, but it can also be challenging too, um, when you're holding people to impossibly high, high standards. So it can be a good thing, but there's a flip side to it.

Is that why the Impossible is scratched out?

No.

So this, this is actually my buddy Joel Runyon's company. Impossible. So he has a company. It encourages people to get out and do something that you feel like is impossible. Okay. He's got, he's got a really cool company. He has run an ultramarathon on every continent.

Wow.

Pretty intense.

Really? Did he do it within Antarctica?

He did it to raise money for charity, I believe.

Was anybody running with them?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like races. There's like Yeah, there's ultra marathons that happen on every continent, but he's the only person, I believe, to this day who has who has done that. Wow. Yeah.

Wow.

He's an Austinite as well.

Where's he?

Oh, okay.

Great.

What's his name one more time?

Joel Runyon. Good dude.

Joel. Is that is that is that his real name?

Yeah.

J O E L Runyon.

R U N Runyon is his real name.

Yeah.

Does that blow your mind?

I never thought about it until now.

No, I think about this this name thing quite a bit. Yeah. I think about how— all right, let me— hmm. All right, let me— all right. One of my friend's friends died recently in the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in a way. Like, it's one of the most terrible ways I've ever heard of someone's young death happening. And their name was Dyer. And I was just like, man, I just like confessed it to who I was talking about. Like, I just can't think of a more dire situation. I really can't think.

Yeah.

Like, this is hard to come up with a more dire situation. And this is like many of so many examples I've thought about with people's names.

Yeah, I had a conversation yesterday with— I've worked with a relationship coach for the past years, for the past 3 years, and her maiden name is Payne. And she confessed to me yesterday, she's like, one of the things that she's had to work through is that all of her family, they're naturally unhappy. They're all in pain. And something that she's had to make a concerted effort to be happy, to be proactive, Uh, you know, to look for the best in things. Like, that's part of her karma, I guess, to deal with that and move through it. It's really interesting.

Now you're just reminding me, I had a, um, conversation— I, I have a conversation, but I know one of my people, the person I know, I think named one of their children Happy. And at first I had like, I was kind of, I was like, I don't know, but now I'm like, hey, Hey, you know, like the— what the thread of the conversation is right now, I'm like, hey man, that, that naming is genius.

Naming can be so weird. I mean, some of the rabbit holes that people go down and what they name their kids, and you're like, what?

Well, Joseph, the father of Jesus—

not biologically, um, I mean, in his lineage—

the brother that is a preacher, you said just became a preacher, right? He—

yeah, he was just ordained as a Catholic priest.

Okay, a priest. Interesting. My middle name is Seth.

That's my first name. And what's funny is, like, I'm not Jewish at all, and obviously that's considered like a very Jewish name. And my parents, I apparently— the reason they picked that name is because they babysat for this kid and his name was Seth and they really liked it.

Wow.

Thanks, Mom and Dad. You named me after some rando. No familial association or anything more meaningful than just a kid that you babysat for.

Okay.

Yeah, that must have been a special child.

I, yeah, don't know who he is. So hey, other Seth, if you're listening, I hope you're cool.

Have you had Seth Spears reach out to you on social media or anything like that? Because I've had some Daniel Eisenmans reach out to me.

No, actually. Yeah, I think there's a couple others. I'll Google myself every so often. There's some baseball player who's like a high school baseball player in North Carolina, Georgia or something.

Okay.

That would come up every so often.

And I did remember what I was thinking about earlier, because before the podcast, I was telling you how I interviewed Trevor Hall. It was a fun episode. What I do— when you talked about having not a known destination, I do remember asking Trevor about how does he come up with the creativity for writing his songs. And it was driving into the mountains and not knowing where he's going.

Really?

Just Dry Edge around here. Just going into the mountains and not knowing. And then that's where he would start coming up with it. That's how I remember the conversation. So I thought—

Wow, that's really cool.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, exploring has been one of my favorite things to do ever since I was a kid. Trying to think where that came from, actually. But when, when I was a child, I remember after church on Sundays, like my dad would— we'd go drive around and look at houses. And so I've always enjoyed that.

Was your dad in real estate or just—

Part-time at the time. Like, he— yeah, I mean, he is now. That's all he does now. He eventually became full-time in it. So, but my parents like to look at houses, probably my dad more than my mom.

And you could tell that was— that was— now he's in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, great, cool. Um, but in college, my best friend and I, we would get in his truck and just go off and exploring and just drive and just get lost. And I've always loved doing that. That's one of the things I like best here is just, just drive up into the mountains and just go exploring, see what I can find.

Yeah, it's not easy to get lost around here. No.

Well, if you go far enough, you can.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's not too challenging. Have you been to like any of the Ward Lakes?

Oh yeah. Okay.

Yep. Yeah, yeah, we live in a special area.

Yeah, it's gorgeous up there.

Um, wellness. Oral, hair, skin. Oral, I mean, all right, the fact that your, your toothpaste doesn't have fluoride in it.

Correct, no fluoride.

Why it doesn't have fluoride?

Because fluoride is a neurotoxin. Most toothpastes have to have Poison control label on them because if you consume too much, it's really bad for you.

And so, the active ingredient that you're using for fluoride would be hydroxyapatite.

Hydroxyapatite.

Okay.

And, there are 2 types of hydroxyapatite.

Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah.

And, this is somewhat controversial right now. There's micro and there's nano.

Okay.

We use micro because that is a naturally occurring mineral that we pull from some mines in France.

Okay. Oh, wow.

Your teeth are basically made of hydroxyapatite.

Wow. So there's a mineral that you can get from a mine called hydroxyapatite?

Yes. Wow.

Yeah, see, I didn't know that.

There's also a nano hydroxyapatite, which is lab-created.

Okay.

So there's a lot of studies around hydroxyapatite and how good that is.

By the way, you don't have to— I want you to say what you're about to say, but for me, like, that's all I actually care about. Like, my biggest bias is I'm like, oh, can I find this?

Yes.

Like, like, let's go as simple as weed versus I'm an antidepressant. Yeah, I don't know how to find the ingredients of an antidepressant. Yeah, I know plenty of people that can show me where weed comes from.

Good point.

Yeah, so anyways, I'm like, okay, I'm all about the, uh, you said micro versus—

Micro versus nano.

I'm like, all right, I'm already micro-biased.

Nano is lab-created. There's a— there's more studies on the efficacy, efficacy of nano versus micro for teeth remineralization. However, We're finding out that, that the nanoparticles can cross the blood-brain barrier. That's a problem. Nano just got banned in France.

Okay, so the country that the— is this their— is there other countries?

Excuse me, in the— not just France, in the EU.

Okay, that's a good standard too. Like, if things are banned in the EU, by the way, Americans, people that you— because I've traveled a lot of Europe— don't eat things that are banned in Europe here in America just because they're not.

Yeah, exactly. So The vast majority of our competitors that are natural companies, that they are using hydroxyapatite, they're using nano.

Okay.

We decided to go with micro before a lot of this stuff came out because it's the most natural you can get. Like, I don't want to use something that's lab-created.

We—

even if it might not be quite as efficacious because it's more natural. Yeah. That if we're— what you're putting on your body, you're putting in your body. What you're putting in your mouth, you're really putting in there because all health starts in the mouth. So, we use microhydroxyapatite as our primary ingredient that remineralizes your teeth. So, if you have a cavity, if you have a soft spot that's turning into a cavity, if you use this, we have hundreds of reviews that are showing how they've repaired those cavities and those soft spots.

That's a big deal.

It is.

Yeah. I'm very skeptical of a lot and I'm very skeptical of the dental industry.

So what's really interesting, I've been taking some informal polls recently amongst friends and asking them how do they choose what personal care products they use, and specifically their toothpaste, shampoo, and their deodorant, because these are things that we just use every day, usually maybe multiple times a day. Probably not shampoo multiple times a day, but toothpaste, yes. Deodorant, possibly. And the vast majority of them, it's because of what their parents bought, maybe what their spouse purchases or whatever is cheapest. This is something that they're putting on their body every single day. And probably only about 10% of them are actually curious about what the ingredients are. They're looking at the ingredients and saying, hey, should this go in my body or should it not? They're just looking at what The big brands— Crest, Colgate, you know, all the Procter Gamble brands. Yes, Old Spice, uh, Pert Plus.

You know, I heard about the Band-Aid thing. Have you heard about this Band-Aid thing that, that could be— oh yeah, this— there's allegedly a new thing out with Band-Aids. Y'all can all look it up, but they might have some lawsuits against the carcinogenic, uh, chemicals in Band-Aids that are going directly into people's bloodstreams.

From the sticky?

Yeah, well, I don't even know.

Oh really?

Like, it doesn't surprise me, but I— when you I just started thinking about razors. Yeah, that gel stuff that's in razors. Yeah. Is that a good idea? Like, what do you do? Well, like, I'm like, I might never shave with one of the— anything that's added to a razor again.

Okay, think about— let's go back 50 years. There weren't like the razors like that we have, the, the safety razors with the multiple blades with a little gel on it. It wasn't the shaving cream, the foam and all that. People use shaving soap. They use a straight razor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I had one of those old straight razors too.

When I actually shave, and typically I just use clippers to buzz it because I hate shaving because it tends to make me break out. But when I do, I use a straight razor and shaving soap. It's the more natural way to do it. We've gotten so far away from what we used to do that was more natural because of marketing guys like me, because we see an opportunity and we want to sell a product or a thing. And it's all about convenience, but not as what is best for us, not what is as healthy. We're thinking short-term. What's going to make it easy right now? How can we make the most profit right now? Not as what it's going to make us the healthiest long-term, not as what's going to be best for the environment, for society, for family, culture, everything over the long-term. We've gotten so far away from that. And I think that's one of the biggest problems that is facing our society today.

Well, one of the beautiful outcomes of breaking normal is that's one way I break normal. I let that lead first. Like, what— because I don't want to necessarily make money doing something I think is wrong, because then I think like the money's dirty. Like, I want to— but like, when I see— when I do it, when I get paid to do something that I think is really helping the people and our world forever, I'm very happy about that.

Yeah.

And it sounds like y'all are doing— I mean, that I have your toothpaste here. That's what I've been using the Right. And, um, I am very interested in the topic of teeth and remineralizing teeth, and I'm very concerned about, um, all the people that get unnecessary teeth treatments.

Yeah.

Yeah, like starting from the x-rays.

Sure.

Sometimes I'm not, I'm not like saying that this is— that whole industry is corrupt, but I wonder about like how many x-rays are little kids getting on their heads?

Yeah, I mean, like to start That's an issue for sure, because that's radiation.

That's just a—

there's a reason they don't let pregnant women in an X-ray room. Yeah, you know, so it's not actually safe. I mean, yeah, you need it for some things. Yes, you have a broken bone or a potential broken bone. And yes, if you think there's a major issue with a tooth or gum or something. Yeah.

I actually don't know how to get a dental cleaning, uh, for my daughter at a new dentist without doing an X-ray.

You just tell them you decline it.

I, I think, I think I found a few that give that option, but I'm saying it's that hard.

The thing is, look for a holistic or biological dentist for one, because then they're going to be more naturally minded and not looking at that. Yeah, but it's like—

X-rays on baby teeth.

Yeah, that to me, that's just stupid.

I'm just saying, why would you do that?

It's going to fall out. I mean, again, there's probably exceptions to every rule, and— but those are very rare. And most within any type of medical practice, they lead with fear because they have credentials behind their name. Because they're seen as the expert and because they can. And it's really easy to play into that fear for unsuspecting consumers or people that don't know any better, and they just want to do what's best for their family, for their kids, what they think is healthy, because this person has been pedestalized and seen as the expert. I mean, that's what's been taught for 100 years now, something. But again, if you look at like what the science is, that's always changing. Like, do you remember the cigarette ads years ago? It's like Marlboro was recommended by 8 out of 10 doctors or dentists or whatever. It's like, okay, what? It's all marketing. Like, okay, Procter& Gamble, one of the largest companies in the world in the personal care space. They own— I think they have something like 8 or 10 brands that each do $1 billion a year.

Okay.

Right. That's crazy. How did they get so big? They created the soap opera. They actually created a media empire creating soap operas because stay-at-home moms, women, they would watch these and then they would advertise their soap, they would advertise their products, and that's how they gained such market share and dominance.

Did they literally create soap operas?

Yes.

And now they sell soap.

Google it. Well, that's— they created the soap opera to sell soap. That was the whole thing. It was like, that is the whole way.

That's one thing I think, I think I've I've also learned about things that are potentially evil are actually, um, they are explicit.

So I'm not—

that makes sense.

I'm not gonna call this evil.

Yeah, just like things are diverted, or like, what's the word, inverted.

It was marketing. Yes. And as a marketer, like, I think it's brilliant. How can I do that but do it for good products, for things that are the best, and not just what's going to make the most money?

And that's the part that, I mean, it might be evil.

Right.

The part that you might be happy to poison people for profits. Well, yes.

And the question is, did they know it at the time?

I don't know.

Probably not.

No, I don't know.

I tend to give people the benefit— I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're, they're just looking at it as this is something that people need and they're not looking at it so deeply within the supply chain, within each ingredient. And probably also don't know what the ramifications are at the time, because especially when new ingredients come out and they're backed by whatever lab or whatnot.

Yeah, on that note, hydroxyapatite, isn't that been used from the Japanese? Now that, like, how— what's the history of hydroxyapatite?

Yeah, that's a— I'm not— I, I believe the Japanese are the ones that first started using it. I need to go back and check the history of that though. I'm not totally up on where that originally came from, but it is the ingredient that is doing the best. And basically, I mean, if you want to go down a rabbit hole, look at the history of fluoride, why we ever started using that.

I'm willing to talk about that because I am blown away. I was at the sauna the other day, which is a place we both love to go to, and hearing— I heard this awesome guy like talking about how he had like this crazy-ass conversation because the pesticide people that were spraying his neighbor's yard went into his yard without knowing it and started spraying.

I have a story about that too.

And this story was blowing my mind. I'm like, what did you do? And he apparently had a whole big talk with them.

Yeah.

This might become a big deal. And I was so proud of this random person. I'm like, good, good. Because we had some stupid-ass school letter recently about some people accidentally sprayed pesticides on school and the school garden.

How'd they do that?

I know, I didn't even look into it. They were just like apologizing, it'll never happen again. I was like, well, that's respectful that you're like telling us.

And that is—

what are, what are people doing still spraying poison? They're like, what is the amount of billions that Monsanto has been sued for or more? And why people are still using those products? Like, there's a gap.

I think there's so many people that are oblivious. They just see the convenience side. Oh, I have weeds on my sidewalk, so I'm gonna get something to kill it. They're not asking the deeper questions. They're not asking, what is this? How does it work? Is this healthy? Where is it going? It's— think about years ago, people would just throw their trash into a sinkhole. They would just throw things into the river. Like, having conversations with friends growing up, like, in the '80s, and like, yeah, we'd be fishing and we just throw our candy bar wrapper into the creek. Like, oh, it'll just end up where— I mean, it's, it's unfathomable now. But for so long, for so many years, people didn't think about that. We just become so disconnected from nature, from the way the world works, just based on science or convenience or whatever.

And this still happens because the fact that the fluoride's still in our public drinking water.

Yeah, exactly.

That's like the most— one of the most obvious ones to me.

And if you start questioning that, people are like, just, just, it's there for a reason. They would never want to hurt us. It's like, why, why would it be there if it wasn't good?

Well, I've questioned it quite a bit, even with like, because the Yo! Ubertube thing I've done, every once in a while I've picked up people that are working with water treatment plants, and most of them, when I talk to them, they're directly in this industry. They tell this— the answer is something along the lines of like, I think it's— I think they, uh, everyone thinks it's good for your teeth, and I don't know. I don't know why we do that, and it is a pain in the ass in the pipes, and, um, that's about it. Yeah, those are the 3 answers.

Yeah, there was a study done about that, the reason they put fluoride in, but it was sold under false pretenses. And I can't remember the specifics, so I'm not even gonna try to, try to go through and, uh, and explain it because it's been so long since I've read the actual reason behind why they're putting fluoride in drinking water. But I'm sure you can Google it and find all that.

Yeah, I want to— well, I don't know if you can Google it and find the true answers.

Do you think you can? Well, with all of Google's recent updates, who knows? I mean, they keep, they keep making changes based on Based on what the bigger companies want you to, to know or read, seems like anyway.

Yeah, but I'm— that one, that one glares at me hard because I've thought about moving to a place where maybe like fluoride's not in the water, more in the past than now.

But yeah, is it here?

Yeah, yeah, I haven't— there's a few places I know that like apparently I think Sun Valley, Idaho only does chlorine. Um, Ward, Ward has no— I don't think they add anything. I think there's just the line.

There's the spring up there.

Yeah, yeah. So I think that all the The 80 people that live there are not on fluoride or chlorine. Mount Shasta, I don't think does anything because they're right there at the Sacramento headwaters that Crystal Geyser tried to buy, I think. I don't know the full details on this. I'm pretty certain those badass water hippies stopped that at Mount Shasta.

Oh, interesting.

So I think the water is still untreated in that town.

But this raises up a really good question of when you're talking a big community And they have the sewer and they have to treat the water and they're— what's the best way to do that? How can you do that so that like all your sewage and everything and the waste management and the water treatment, everything, how do you do it like at scale? And so you're not adding chemicals that are bad for you, but you're also— it's not just flowing through the streets or anything like that. I don't know the answer to this, but these are questions that I think about a lot.

Yeah, well, I think like, for instance, I think Iceland, I think the whole All the towns are on untreated hot spring water, like well water, because that's what's coming from the ground. They might pump it into the towns too from the mountains.

Where does their sewage go?

That's a good question. I haven't thought as much about sewage, actually.

I mean, that goes somewhere.

Yeah.

And so basically they're treating it so that it gets rid of all of the excrement.

And then maybe that goes somewhere else. Are you saying they recycle that here in the United States somehow?

I think some of that happens.

Yeah.

I don't know entirely.

Uh, and then I think Paris somehow— I might be wrong about this, so don't, like, please fact-check me on this— but I, I'm under the belief that Paris only UV zaps their water, and that's a big city.

So mo— I've traveled extensively throughout Europe, and most Europeans drink mineral water, sparkling water. They're not drinking tap water.

Yeah, that's also interesting. Yeah, the tap water. I mean, there was a new parent at the portal. They're about to have a son, and I was like, they were just asking me things I've done. I'm like, well, I do things like completely normal. For instance, like, Davina barely took a bath for like the first 6 months of her life. We gave her like 20 minutes of naked sun time, and we would wipe her up every once in a while and dip her in the ocean.

Yeah.

I just couldn't bear— I couldn't. She was so porous.

Like, how can I dip her in this Tap water, the hot tap water.

I mean, I'm a huge fan of having a whole house filter.

Yeah, that's a good—

that's one— I think that's one thing to look at here with this conversation.

I mean, those are expensive, but if you think about this is something that you're in multiple times a day— you're drinking, you're bathing in, you're rinsing off, showering— that's important. You know, your skin is super porous. What you're putting on your body, you're putting in your body. So if it has Toxic chemicals, even if it's a low dose, that's still going to affect you in some manner.

Yeah, talabalm for me. Yeah, some Vicks and talabalm for my hair. I do wash my hair probably once a month or so.

That's it.

Before I get a haircut with Dr. Bronner's, like real quickly. Yeah. And that's it. I mean, I'll use sometimes like my armpits.

And have you, have you tried our shampoo?

No, I have— all I've tried is your toothpaste, which I've been using every day for a while.

I mean, the toothpaste is our best-selling It's our best one. But yeah, we have a shampoo and conditioner as well, and all the ingredients in it were very specifically chosen because they're good for your hair, for your scalp, for your hair follicles, to help them grow, to help thicken, to help it look their best. And again, everyone's hair is different, so it's not like a one-size-fits-all. Yeah, you have great hair.

I have thick— it's thick.

I'm slightly jealous.

It is thick. It's like— I don't know, I wonder if it's as thick as it used to be, but it used to be like a Brillo pad.

Nice.

Like, I, I had an afro.

Yeah.

I mean, I let it grow. It was a real afro.

I wanna see pictures of that.

Yeah, I can show you some crazy ones. Um, what's the— what, um, do y'all have multiple hair products? 'Cause I'd be curious which one you would recommend for me.

And then like, yeah, right now we just have one shampoo and one conditioner.

Okay.

We had one, we had 2 separate lines, one for straight and one for curly. And then, uh, we consolidated down to one and basically combined the best aspects of both of them.

Okay. Yeah. I have no, I have no biases towards curly, all that. I just want like what's cleanest.

For sure.

Oh yeah. I mean, the ingredient-wise, It's as clean as you can get. Cool.

Awesome. And then you said deodorant. Y'all do a deodorant?

Yeah, we do a deodorant.

That, that one blows my mind too. I, uh, I haven't used a deodorant in so long. What I have done every once in a while is spray like a little rubbing alcohol. Oh, like if I'm trying to kill a smell. Yeah, I could spray some rub— like if I'm about to go on a date, I'm like nervous AF or something, who knows. But I'm like, I could do that or rub a lemon. But mostly I do nothing. Yeah, I would never want to, uh, Rub poison into my armpits.

So yeah, I mean, most deodorant, most commercial deodorant, it's also an antiperspirant. That's basically blocking your pores really bad. Not healthy. You know, you were designed to sweat, to excrete there for a reason.

And just the fact that someone can make something that makes someone not sweat, it doesn't sound so natural. Exactly. I wonder if there's any natural products that make people not sweat.

Not that I know of, but I don't know for sure.

Yeah, that's kind of interesting.

But I mean, a deodorizer, it's okay. So if you're eating perfectly healthy, which who does these days? Is it even possible? Probably not. You're probably not going to have an offensive body odor. But because of the toxic society, the toxic world we live in, everyone smells somewhat. That gets into an entirely separate discussion around pheromones and attraction, all that.

We get some major fun conversations with them. Like one of my friends, for instance, smells like, I think terrible. Yeah, but he really believed that it wore off on the ladies, like they would get addicted. They hated it first and they'd be addicted to it.

I mean, that, that's an entirely separate conversation. I'm happy to go down that rabbit hole because I find it fascinating.

Me too.

Uh, but because we do live in a very toxic world, I think trying to reduce the, the body odor, the smell, that's not a bad thing, especially if it can be done in a natural way. And good luck trying to convince the public at large that you shouldn't wear deodorant.

Oh yeah, that's one of the more amazing things to me that most people do. Yeah, and sunscreen. That one, that one amazes me too. The spray one especially.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Oh yeah, I mean, I, I haven't worn sunscreen in—

yeah, can't remember when, but those two are kind of rough for me when I'm like, wow, that's just so normal.

Yeah, I mean, it's We live in a world where, again, like we said before, it's all about convenience. And we've just gotten— we get into these habits of things that we do and we don't even question it. It's just like— and then if you do question, it's like you're looked at as a pariah. Like, so weird.

By some, maybe by like the more anonymous outspoken ones.

I don't know. I mean, if you—

if you take—

we live in a bubble. We hang out with a lot of Weird people, if you will, quote unquote weird, that are like outside of the mainstream. But those that are in probably the 80% of the world or of the US anyway, it's— they just, they just follow along and do the same thing over and over. And, you know, there's a beauty in that too, just like a blind trust. And I wish I could do that and it were that easy, but unfortunately— I know too much and I've always been the rebel who questions everything. And because I said so was never an acceptable answer for me.

Alright. I think we're like— yeah, we're at 1:09. I usually aim to keep them between 44 minutes and 1 hour and 11 minutes. I got a question for you.

Question what?

The rapid-fire one that we can end it on.

Alright.

Before I do that, website one more time?

Wellnest.com.

And we'll put that in the show notes. And if someone wants to reach out to you, how do they do that?

Uh, you can ping me on Instagram @SpearsMarketing.

Spears Marketing?

Yep, S-P-E-A-R-S, @SpearsMarketing, or Twitter, or X now, whatever it's called.

Awesome. And then finally, this was a— this question just came into my heart, and because I, I'd love to hear the answer, if you could just like, um, real quickly say like What you think, like, each one of your children's names and what do you think one of their highest qualities are? It could be like a one-word answer. If more needed, that's fine, but kind of rapid fire if possible.

Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, they have so many amazing qualities. I mean, my children are just amazing, intelligent, beautiful.

Yeah.

So my oldest, Tony, he just graduated this year. He's a deep thinker. He loves to learn. Uh, yeah, he's a voracious reader, like both of his parents.

Yeah.

Izzy is incredibly athletic and she's a competitor. She's, uh, yeah, always pushing herself. Joey's a voracious reader all the time. Yeah.

Do Tony and Joey have like philosophical debates?

Yeah, I think so. Some. Uh, Gigi's so social. She just, she loves people and just, uh, always has a smile on her face. Gabby, when she puts her mind to something, there's no stopping it. Greta's just always happy and bubbly and just puts a smile on everyone's face around her.

I'm happy I asked.

Yeah.

And that's 1 hour and 11 minutes.

Thanks.

Thanks for your time.

Thanks, Daniel. Good times.

Yeah, to be continued at the sauna, creek, and, uh, wherever else I see you next.

Sounds good.

Peace. Thank y'all.