Dr Brooke Show #423 Good Oral Health is Good Health with Seth Spears of Wellnesse

Welcome to The Dr. Brooke Show, your place to get real talk about your hormones and the how-tos that will help you put that info into action. I'm your host, Dr. Brooke Kalanick, a functional medicine physician and women's hormone expert. I am also a mother, wife, author, weightlifter, recovering perfectionist, and like you, a woman trying to be more resilient in the face of stress and cultivate more joy. Together, we'll explore hormones, health, and happiness, and my hope is that with each episode, we become a little bit better. Remember, this show is intended for educational purposes only. Please speak with your healthcare provider before implementing the information heard here. If you need more support, please visit betterbydrbrook.com. Hello everyone, welcome to the Dr. Brooke Show. I'm Dr. Brooke and my guest today is Seth Spears. Many of you are familiar with the platform Wellness Mama. He was one half of the duo that started that. We are going to talk about a little bit of the, you know, history of Wellness Mama because it was such a big blog and website resource podcast for so many of you back in the day. I actually know Katie and Seth through Sarah Fragoso, who used to be my co-host on this show and was my co-author on Hangry. So I feel like they are kind of some of the OGs in the wellness space. And Seth is not associated with Wellness Mama right now. He is here today to talk about a newer venture called Wellness, and they have some really great personal care products, and we're I know all on the hunt for more stuff that works, that's worth our money, that of course doesn't have the stuff we don't want in it. So we're going to spend a little bit of time today talking about oral health and dental health and the ingredients we want to look for in our, you know, more well-based or, you know, healthier, greener, cleaner oral care. And we're going to talk about the whitening toothpaste and a couple of the other products from Wellness, but really loving the toothpaste. And there will be a link in the show notes for the toothpaste. I think I mentioned On this show when Seth and I are talking that I personally really love the cinnamon. That is my favorite. I don't know, I just feel like I've had so much mint toothpaste in my life here at this stage of life. I'm kind of done. It was really nice to have like the refreshing, I don't know, kind of spicy little cinnamon added, added to that. My kids are loving the strawberry. And we talk a little bit about the ingredients in this show as well as just like oral health and kind of Toothpaste is one of the ones I find very interesting as far as you know greener, cleaner products. There's a lot of misinformation about you know it's one of those things where it's like we've got this ingredient, the hydroxyapatite, but is it like the nano or the micro? And some of those things might seem like little details, but actually turns out big big deal when it comes to what's actually going to be safer in your toothpaste as well as work. So we're going to get into all of that, and again link in the show notes to get your savings on wellness with the. Actually, you just need to click the link. You don't even need the code Better Every Day. So it's W-E-L-L-E-N. Oh, I'm spelling that wrong. W-E-L-N-E-S-S-E. But the link is in the show notes and it's .com/bettereveryday. The other sponsor for this episode is new to the show. And I think some of you are gonna laugh at me a little bit because I actually do not have a dog, but I know many of you do. So when I got wind of Ollie, which is a fresh dog food that is sent to your home home. It's not raw, but it is fresh. Um, it was funny because I immediately— I don't know if I've told this story, but right before Christmas— so this episode is airing in the end of February— and right before Christmas, I was having kind of a hard time getting into the spirit. And I have 2 little girls. One, my 10-year-old, is just dying for a dog. She wants a dog so bad. And before Christmas, I was like, I just kind of can't I can't get there. Could not quite get into the swing of things. And if you know me for any amount of time, you know I really love the holidays. I get excited, you know, as soon as summer's over into the holidays. And I was thinking, you know, I need to do something major, like something really magical for Christmas. And I was this close to getting her a puppy, and I'm glad I didn't. I don't think we're quite ready. But I know I am in the minority. I think it's so amazing when families have dogs, and I have not I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but if I did, you can bet I would be feeding them Ollie dog food. So when you look at what's going on for our pets in terms of food, I mean, we— you guys love your pets. They are just like a member of your family, right? And you know, you want to feed them as well as you're feeding yourself. And many of the, what I would consider like higher grade dog foods out there are raw. And that can be like a whole thing, right? If it's raw and it's sent to you frozen. So Ollie is fresh, but it's not raw. So it's really interesting the way that they've done this, and I've sent this to a couple of patients, and that is the thing that they love the most, that they can feed their dog this really, you know, healthy, nutritious, whole foods-based, you know, formula, but they don't have to worry about like, oh, did I forget to take it out of the freezer? And it's really cool the way they set this up. So as you go into their website, which there is a link in the show notes, and it's Ollie, ollie.com/bettereveryday, you actually get 60% off. But it's really, I love it. It's kind of diagnostic. It's kind of the way that I do it. And, you know, we can all just like run out and take supplements or whatever, but you actually get to fill out a quiz. So they get to know a little bit about your dog, their activity level, their health info, their weight. And then they're gonna, you know, put that together in a, you know, give you some expert recommendations and then send you a starter box. So you're gonna get, you know, also some guidance So you're gonna get your product, but you're also gonna get some guidance into transitioning because we know when we change food for our pets, that can take a little bit of a transition. So check it out. I hope to have someone from Ollie come on, um, just so those of you that are trying to take care of your pets can get a little bit more information and insight into how they formulate, what they're trying to do, but no fillers, no preservatives, made right here in the US, trusted growers and producers from around the world, but formulated here. And really again, like customizing and helping you sort of get things dialed in for your own pup. So check that out again, 60% off your first box when you subscribe. So it's ollie.com/bettereveryday. So let's get to next the interview with Seth Spears from Wellness. All right, Seth, welcome to the show.

Hey, Brooke, thanks for having me.

Yeah, we are going to get into some of your current work, but I think a lot of my people know you from your work with Wellness Mama. So let's talk a little bit about how you ended up as not— you are not a functional medicine doctor or an expert in that realm. How did you end up being such a— you are a pretty big player in the wellness space. I have not known you personally for a long time, but known of your work And Wellness Mama for a very long time. So tell me a little bit about how you got into all this.

Yeah, so I grew up in a family that was very, very health conscious. My mother was a family nurse practitioner and basically retired when I was born and then kind of transitioned into a more homeopathic outlook on health and wellness as opposed to the more traditional allopathic. And so I grew up around essential oils and, you know, tinctures and, and just, you know, yeah, and just making looking at more healthier options. And then fast forward, when I first got married, I was running a boutique digital marketing agency, working with small business owners and bloggers and service providers to help them build a really solid web presence. And then I convinced my now ex-wife Katie to start a blog just to— she was a journalism major in college and had gone back to school for nutrition and was trying to figure out her own health issues and trying to create best, healthiest options for our family. And I'd always been a tech early adopter and had been playing around with self-publishing for a long time. And so I saw an opportunity where she could use her creative— start writing and write a blog as far as a creative outlet and also to document what she was learning in her nutrition courses. And so she did, and she was a very good writer, great researcher, and I started using some of the tools and skills that I was learning with my paying clients and used wellnessmama.com as a testing ground just to see what would work and what would grow. And it grew into this massive, um, health and wellness empire for moms. Uh, and yeah, it was kind of like an accidental thing that turned into a big thing.

I— it's funny to like now with the struggle that all of us have to get seen with social media and blogs, the Google algorithm, not, definitely not prioritizing the work like that I do with. So Sarah Fragoso, who I wrote Hangry with and used to host this show with, she was kind of the same way. Like it was like that right time, right place where we needed that information. Like women were like, I don't know how to, maybe I know how to do some of this stuff for myself, but I really don't know what to do with my, for my family. And that's exactly how Sarah got started too. Robb Wolf was like, just put some of these recipes, you know, on your website.

Mm-hmm.

Women need to, moms want to know how you're feeding your family. Um, so I have to say, I'm, I, I long for those days when it was a little easier to get our stuff out there. But, you know, thank goodness you knew what you were doing and were able to get that information.

Well, at the time, I don't know that I knew what I was doing so much as I was throwing stuff at the wall to see what would stick. And then I, I guess my skill set when it came to business in general, and a lot of life, is looking at multiple different areas and for other industries and then seeing potential and then bringing them into the area that I'm focused on. And so that's what I did. I took a lot of digital marketing concepts and practices into the health space. And it worked really well. And it was when no one else was doing anything like that. And so we were definitely at the right place at the right time. And there's an element of luck in being at the right place at the right time. But we also took really big action and just were consistent with it. And I think that's one of the reasons why it was so successful.

Yeah. And if you aren't familiar with Wellness Mama, it's wellnessmama.com, podcast, blog. And I think especially when you guys were first starting, Like it was just a really great resource for, you know, to again, like having Katie's research skills, be able to say like, okay, I've looked at all this stuff. This is where you need to focus. These are some options. You guys had a lot of DIY stuff, a lot of like, how do you make this at home? And I think that really appealed to so many women cuz like all this stuff gets, you know, especially back then there just weren't very good options as that we could go buy.

Sure.

And that's changing. And that kind of points us to the new direction that you have with, um, WellNest where you've got some more products. So let's talk a little bit about your transition from, you guys were, a little bit more of an information-based service, and now you've got some really good natural, high-quality, low-toxin, uh, beauty products and body care products and some oral care products too with this new line.

Yeah, so Wellness, um, the idea for it really came from the DIY tutorials that we had on Wellness Mama on how to make your own personal care products— toothpaste, shampoo, conditioner, deodorant, and many others as well. And like I mentioned before, I spot trends and patterns, and I saw that there were so many readers that were asking, hey, will you just make this and sell it so I don't have to make it anymore?

Yeah.

I really like it and it works great, but I'm just tired of doing it myself. I want the convenience of going to a store or ordering it online. And so that was kind of the impetus to start Wellness. So we launched that in 2020 and focused on oral, hair, and skincare with the primary focus on oral care. So that's been my primary business and primary focus for the past several years. Katie and I, we separated and divorced a few years ago, and we also separated out the companies. And so she— I completely exited out of Wellness Mama, and she's exiting out of Wellness. So she runs, runs the blog and podcast, and then I run the physical product company now.

Yeah. And we'll come back to all of that because you guys, I mean, especially in the wellness space, pretty well known. That's probably a dicey thing to navigate both publicly, personally. You guys have 6 kids, right?

6 kids.

Yeah, 6 kids. And of course, you're businesses too. So we'll kind of come back to that. But I think one of the— that is a huge point of overwhelm is not having to make this stuff ourselves. So I'm really grateful that we have more options, but I think women are still kind of overwhelmed sometimes when it's like, where do I start? Because I can't financially throw everything I've got in my bathroom out and buy all new everything. And so I think there's kind of like a hierarchy. We can talk about that too. Obviously something you put in your mouth, big thing to maybe make a switch on. So we'll come back to that. But you know, people think about this, I think it's still— I still hear this from my patients too, even though my sole focus is women's health and hormones, is like, how important is this? Like, how, how bad is this stuff really? Because I think we've got conventional messaging saying this is all just like, you know, clickbaity, doesn't matter, not researched. So let's talk a little bit about just like, does it really matter, the stuff that we're putting on our skin? Like, how important is this? Yeah.

I mean, the skin is the biggest organ that we have. What we put on our body, we're putting in our body, and especially what you're putting in your mouth. The mouth is very porous. And so if you are brushing your teeth multiple times a day with a fluoride-based toothpaste, that's a problem. Fluoride is a neurotoxin, and we've really been sold a bill of goods over the past 50, 60 years around it and thinking that it is beneficial for us, and that's just not true. And so like anything, follow the money trail to see what's going on there. And so we always want to create products that are healthier for you. So we work with a lot of holistic and biological dentists just because they are on the forefront of the most modern research and what actually is healthy for you. It's always interesting when people say follow the science, right? Because as we see, science is always changing.

Yeah.

200 years ago, what it was saying was healthy is a little different than now, you know. So it's, it's interesting for me just when I hear people say that, uh, and always look at who is profiting from the science, you know.

Science. Yeah.

And so I think it's always good to do your due diligence when it comes to any products or things like that. Um, but we try to decide on what is the most natural as possible because So many foods, so many products, they're lab-created and they're using all these chemicals and things that you would never find in nature. And the more natural we can, we can stay and we can use things that are coming from, say, plants and such, then that's way better for you.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it is, it is overwhelming. But what I always tell people is just start when that thing is gone. You know, I mean, I personally is like anything I rub into my skin, anything I put in my mouth, I'm gonna go ahead now that I know better, I'm gonna go ahead and just, let's just do better with those, like right outta the gate with your cleaning products and all, you know, maybe it's your shampoo and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. When that thing runs out, just start. And it, you know, by the end of the year you'll be done. You'll be all transitioned to much more, you know, healthy options. But I think even then we get into like better low toxic options, which thank goodness, again, we're not having to DIY our own toothpaste the way that we did. That was only, I mean, 7, 10 years ago. That was not that long ago.

Yeah.

Where that really was the option. Um, and I think then newer products came out, but they didn't really work.

Mm-hmm.

Like there was so much natural skincare that was nontoxic, but it was like, it didn't work. So, um, we are in a much better, you know, spot now. So it is important. It is one of the things like food, it doesn't seem we can control it. There's so much in our environment, our lifestyle, you know, our world that, that we can't control, but we can control what we eat to a large degree, and we can control what we put on our skin and use on our oral care and all that kind of stuff to a large degree. So I think it's one of those things that, um, I don't know that we really need to sell too many people listening to this show on how important those things are. But when you just think about like total burden, right? If it's a little in your toothpaste and a little in your deodorant, your skincare, your stuff you use to clean your kitchen, you know, it just all adds up. The occasional times you are gonna have to use plastic. I mean, why still buy—

Yeah.

Lettuce in a plastic clamshell container? Because that's the way it's getting done right now with like life. So I think the places we can minimize, we really want to. And when we've got products that, that work. So you guys do have a shampoo, a natural deodorant. Um, let's talk a little bit about the toothpaste though, because I think that This is interesting. And like you said, fluoride, big topic right now. I think that we're kind of trying to backpedal even in the conventional medicine of like our conventional model that we don't need to maybe do it orally anymore. Like that was— I had a— saw a Facebook post recently in a local group that I'm in that they were giving their kids vitamins with fluoride in them, but now they've aged out of that. And I was like, is that still a thing? Like oral fluoride from your pediatrician? Like, I was like, wow, I wasn't even—

Yeah.

Haven't talked about that because I didn't know that was still going on. But I think there is still, you know, some— we're having a better conversation about fluoride, but we really want to be thinking more about like this remineralization and some of the ingredients we can use to actually help our teeth recover and heal.

So, you know, the first thing I say about that is no one has a fluoride deficiency. You know, it's, you know, and fluoride, it's not even a naturally occurring element. Fluorine is. And fluoride, it's a byproduct. You know, it's a chemical byproduct. And so it's being added into our water supply and into toothpaste and other things. It's not something that we actually need. But speaking to the remineralization, our teeth are made— our enamel is made of hydroxyapatite. It's a naturally occurring mineral. And so that's the primary ingredient in our toothpaste. We have 4 different flavors, and so we use it in all of those. And so we source our hydroxyapatite from Europe, and we use a micro hydroxyapatite. There are 2 types. There's a nano, which is lab-created, which they're now saying can cross the blood-brain barrier. And it was recently, they've shut using that down in personal care products in Europe just because of what the potential benefits or what the potential detriments are there. And especially we don't know the long-term effects of that. So we always want to side on what is the most natural as possible. And so we use a microhydroxyapatite. And what that does is to help remineralize your teeth.

Okay.

So if you have a cavity, you have a soft spot, you have something that is— could be turning into a cavity, the hydroxyapatite gets into those crevices and it helps to repair that. I mean, granted, you still need to be brushing your teeth multiple times a day. You need to be improving your eating habits, staying away from like carbs and sugars and things like that.

Yeah.

Because if you can keep your mouth at a pH of 6.8 or higher, you're not going to get cavities. The mouth, it takes care of itself. But there's things that we can do to help increase that as well. And so it's really hard to eat perfectly every day just in today's day and age. But to your point earlier about all those toxins and things, our goal is to reduce the toxic load as much as possible. And whether that is in your mouth, whether that's on your skin, whether that's in the air, the water, everything that we do, if we can reduce that toxic load, then we're going to be healthier. We're going to feel better because we're just inundated with so many things throughout the day. Yeah. So that's that's our goal.

Yeah, I like your flavors too. Let's talk a little bit about that. I think most I know sometimes when you see another mint toothpaste, you're like, "I've had enough of that." I really like it's cinnamon spearmint. I believe is the blend.

The cinnamon.

Yeah, the cinnamon.

Yeah, that's one I really like that one. Yeah, it's my it's my current favorite as well.

It's my favorite. My kids like the strawberry.

Yeah, then we designed that one with children in mind just because the only complaint we've ever had about our original mint flavored whitening toothpaste is some children would say it's too quote unquote spicy. So whatever that means, but that's the term that they use.

So, no, I've heard that my kids won't even use, like, lip balm or chapstick that has peppermint oil in it, which is my personal favorite. But they're like, too spicy, too spicy.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So we've developed a few other flavors that children seem to like a little bit more that doesn't have quite as strong a flavor. What's really interesting about that when it comes to the flavorings, so most people, they were used to having a mint or a peppermint flavor. And that was primarily because years and years ago, Crest, Colgate, they realized that it kind of had that strong flavor and they said, you have to have this because it actually has some beneficial ingredients. It's, it's doing its job by that. And the same with like foaming agents like sodium lauryl sulfate and others. Oh, if it's not foaming, then it's not working. None of that is true.

Yeah.

It's not. It's all— it's— it was all marketing. And we were told that if it's not doing this thing or has this particular taste or flavor, then it's not as effective. But that wasn't accurate. It was just a marketing strategy that they used to sell a whole lot. So we become so accustomed to it and just growing up with these conventional products that that's what we're used to. And so if it doesn't have that foam, if it doesn't have that strong taste, then we think it's not working. It's not accurate. But we decided to— our first toothpaste was the mint, which foams really well, but we stayed away from all those toxic ingredients like SLS. And we're able to create it so that it still does have that more traditional mouthfeel to it, so that it's not as big of a change for people. Because often if it feels like it's a big, big change, then you get that idea that it's not working or you're less likely to use it.

Yeah, foaming is an interesting one. There was a product that came out about a year ago by, I think, a company called Biome, and they were these toothpaste tablets. And that was one of the things that my patients all hated. They're like, it just foams. So much, even like using half of one. So yeah, I think as we kind of move into these new formulas, um, it is a bit of an adjustment, I think, as we're kind of learning to use these, these new tools. Again, I don't know that most of you listening are not totally familiar with that. And we did have Dr. Stacy Whitman on a while ago. She's a great holistic dentist out of the Portland area. Again, we talked a little bit about hydroxyapatite and like just this idea that I think we— We have this idea that our teeth are just like there and all you can do is clean them off. And everything else is just your dentist. Like, I don't think most people still really can get their head around that idea that you can actually heal a tooth. You can actually improve it. You could fix a cavity, right, without necessarily, as Stacy called it, the drill and fill, right? So I think hydroxyapatite is just an interesting— it's an interesting concept that I think still feels kind of weird for even those of us in this space that— because I think, as you know, even just how we were raised, right?

Yeah.

You just— if you get a cavity, You're kind of out of luck. You've got to go get it. Not that we're not telling you not to go to your dentist or get a cavity filled, but it's like that we have ingredients and science that actually helps us heal some of these things.

Yeah, exactly. And this is something that's just come about within more recent years. And Dr. Weston A. Price is one of the people that was at the forefront of studying this and looking at both the foods that we're eating and how that affects it and looking at indigenous cultures and their mouth structure and things like that. And I find that really fascinating. And it's unfortunate that the more traditional or conventional medical community and dental community doesn't look at those things. They look at, oh, this is what the latest is, this is the science on it, as opposed to looking at a much longer period throughout history and how we lived and survived. So it's— I think we tend to silo things and like, oh, if it's not today, then it's no good. We tend to throw it out. But I think we love new. Everybody's like, yeah, there's a novelty to it, and if it's not new, then it's, uh, then it's worthless. But I think that's changing. I think we're looking, looking back at and seeing that we can always learn from that. And there's, you know, both good and bad and like everything.

Yeah, take what works, right?

Keep that.

Exactly. Let's talk a little bit about some of the other oral care products too, like the charcoal toothpaste. Like, when would you recommend people kind of lean more towards that versus some of the other more like everyday options?

Yeah, so the charcoal toothpaste, I don't recommend using it every day because it is a little bit more abrasive. I mean, charcoal is great for cleaning your teeth and also it will help to whiten them as well, but it is a little bit more abrasive. So I recommend using every other day or every third day because it's also a nice change. I don't know about you, but I tend to like to mix up the flavors and stuff and go back and forth just so you don't get bored with the repetition of the same thing. And so it's a nice little change to go back and forth between the flavors and the types.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously you're— I was been working with your products for the last couple of months, so I've been changing just because I wanted to try all the different flavors. I hadn't really thought about that. I don't know if I'm somebody who wants to change their toothpaste Paste flavor more frequently. Never really considered that, but good to know.

Yeah, I mean, it's easy to just get into a habit and a routine of the same thing over and over, but I think it's nice to mix it up and you're like, oh, it's a different flavor, tastes a little different. And so, I think you also become a little bit more conscious of brushing your teeth and thinking about it. And if you're not in just the habit of the same time every day and the same flavor and all of that, so it kind of awakens the brain and you start thinking about these things a little bit Yeah.

So we've talked about obviously what we're brushing our teeth with, the food, chewing, all of those things that are really, you know, like really important. But let's talk a little bit about— change gears towards the oral microbiome, which is getting more attention. And just, you know, you all know we talk about this a lot on the show, just that your whole digestive system starts in your mouth and your— all of it begins, you know, up here. So this, this health up here is going to influence and health further down where we do think more, when people are more familiar with their microbiome. But let's talk a little bit about like your guys' oral probiotic and the goal of that, when someone might use that, and just anything else you want to say about, you know, this area, your area of expertise when it comes to the bacteria, good and bad, in our mouth.

Yeah, so we launched a mint hydroxyapatite-based probiotic about a year and a half ago now. And so the goal of that was to create a better-for-you mint, one that will help to remineralize your teeth and also is good for the oral microbiome. So because it has the probiotics, that is going to help improve, improve the biome of the mouth and just help it to be healthier. And then the hydroxyapatite that's in there as well, that gets in those crevices and helps to remineralize. No one on the market's doing that right now. And we've got another flavor that we're going to be launching pretty soon. So just to kind of mix it up as well. And so we look at it as either an after-brushing mint, so it's going to stay in your mouth and kind of give you a nice fresh mouthfeel longer throughout the day. And also like after coffee or after, if you're out and about and say you went out to eat and you don't have a toothbrush and can't brush your teeth, just pop 1 or 2 of those in and you kind of let it, let it dissolve, chew it up a little bit and just let it dissolve in your mouth. And then it'll kind of help take the place of brushing, not a substitute, but it's a nice alternative if you don't have the ability to brush your teeth when you're out and about throughout the day.

Yeah. And like you said, kind of keeping all of the the pH, right? So we're getting less of the—

yeah, it helps that too.

Yeah, we're getting less of the, um, you know, I guess one of our risk factors for, for cavities. Um, is there anything else you want to say about, um, any of the other products like the deodorant, the hair care? I mean, we've, we've been kind of focusing on oral because I feel like that is really, really important and there's, there's limited options out there with hydroxyapatite.

Yeah, very true. There's a lot more now. Than there were when we launched. But I'll put ours up against anyone just because of how natural it is, of the, the very intentionality that we created with, with the ingredients within our products. But our other lines, so our, our skin and hair care, we intentionally— the ingredients we put in all of them, we're very intentional as well, just because we want to use ingredients that are beneficial for your hair, for your skin. Because again, what you're putting on your body, you're putting in your body. And so our hair care, people really seem to like it and it works very well. Granted, not for everyone though, because hair is so specific.

Yeah.

You know, if you have curly hair versus straight hair, oily hair versus dry hair. And so it doesn't work as well for some as it does for others, as opposed to oral care. You know, it's, it's not like we have a different mouth where one toothpaste is going to work for some and not for the other. There's, you know, we've had people with very sensitive teeth that have switched to Wellness toothpaste and, you know, the sensitivity has gone away. So it works for that as well. Our deodorant, that's, that's a very popular one as well. Most people that switch to natural deodorant, often they'll break out because of the high amounts of baking soda that's in it.

Yeah.

So we have some in ours, but it's a lower amount than a lot, a lot of our competitors do. And so there's much less likelihood of breaking out from it. But it's—

Yeah, I saw that. It's only halfway up the ingredient list where it's usually one of the first things. Yeah. Natural deodorant.

And, you know, that took a while to get the formulation right just so that it would not have any of those, those detrimental consequences that for some people if they have sensitive skin. So it works very well also. And it's the people that use it love it.

Yeah, I've been using it for about a month now. It's funny because like I do feel like even people that don't think they're that sensitive, a lot of times the natural deodorants, like a couple weeks is when that— they'll start to see that rash. So it's not always right away. Um, and I haven't experienced that. And I always get that with the baking soda, um, based ones. And I think again, like ingredient-wise, it's an important piece of it maybe, but maybe we don't need so much to have a better formulation.

Yeah, there's usually a transition period whenever you're switching, uh, because, you know, you're putting deodorant on once or twice a day. Uh, and so that's— it can Under the arm can be a little sensitive at times. And so it can be a little bit of a transition for some people. But after you get through that, then you're fine.

Yeah. So I really loved that. I've been talking about this somewhat frequently in the last year or so. I really, really loved the Beauty Counter deodorant. And when it went away, yeah, I was feeling like I don't have like a great substitute. And my hormones are changing in perimenopause. And that brings with it's a whole new thing with sweating and hormones changing the way you smell and all that stuff. And I know a lot of women in this age group are looking for a solution to that. So give, um, the Wellnest deodorant a try, even if you've had the issues with the, um, with the baking soda before. I am not having that, and I'm past that 2-week mark when it usually happens.

Right.

And you guys do have a, um, like, what would happen if someone had a bad reaction? You guys have a, um, you're able to try stuff if they were not to work out.

Oh yeah, for sure. We have a 30-day money-back guarantee. If it doesn't work for you, you know, we'll send it back, we'll refund you. So I mean, we wanna make sure that all of our products work for our customers.

Yeah. And I think like with, yeah, you gotta try some of these things. So don't be too afraid if you've tried some products that haven't worked. And I feel like the skincare stuff, like I said, we are really, really kind of searching to replace some of the stuff that I know a lot of you used Like for the last, I don't know, gosh, 10 years. Beautycounter has been around for a while, for a minute, and then it was all gone. So we're always looking for— that was one of the products I really missed, was, was that particular one. I really liked one of their other skincare products too. But so on the hunt.

Yeah, deodorant is always a weird one for many people because, you know, you don't want to smell. And most deodorant, it's also an antiperspirant, which is really bad for you because that's blocking your pores. And a lot of it has aluminum in it. Before we created our Wellness Deodorant, deodorant. I was a customer of Old Spice, their Pure Sport, since high school, I think. And, you know, that was— it's not an antiperspirant, it was just a deodorant, I believe. But it, again, all the chemicals that are in there are not great for you. So there was a detox period for me as well, just because most people, they want to make sure they don't smell when they're not sweating.

Right.

But the body is so amazing. It's designed to, to excrete toxins and things like that. You're supposed to sweat there. It's this natural way of getting rid of toxins and other things. And so, we don't want to block that, but I mean, we don't want to smell either, especially when you're out and about in public. So, if we can use things that are as minimal as possible, that's a much better way to do it just to keep our entire systems working best.

Yeah. And, it's funny, I see marketed to perimenopausal midlife women right now all of these full-body deodorants, putting them other places. You could use this other places too. It doesn't have to be a special product. Like, this is coconut oil and some baking soda. And again, like, you can see all your ingredients on the Wellness website, but like, you don't need separate products. Like, if you want to put this, you know, other places where you sweat, that is completely fine. You don't need 5 different deodorants for different parts of your body. Part of the, like, just money grab that's going on with midlife right now with all of these, all of these products. So, well, we touched on this a little bit in the, you know, the beginning, but, you know, I didn't even know that you and Katie had split until I was speaking with you about booking this. But, you know, I mentioned when we were chatting, well, first of all, just like navigating your family and your business, like I think most of us feel like either one of those alone would be a real challenge with any kind of, you know, business partner dissolution or a relationship change, but also like navigating, you know, your kids and all and being a bit in the public eye too.

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely the most challenging thing that I've ever gone through. When you're— we were married for 16 years. And so when you're with someone that long, you know, a lot of stuff can come up. We had businesses together and 6 children together. And so dissolving that and starting life over definitely is a challenge and the hardest thing that I've ever gone through. I had to do a lot of deep interpersonal work and self-development to become a much better version of myself and become a better father and make sure that everything that I'm doing is is aligned with my own sense of ethics and morals. And yeah, it's been a journey for sure.

Yeah, I was talking when you and I spoke, I had someone on, it was about a year ago, and we talked about her very public divorce. And I was thinking just in general, I even, because I guess we come so much even as like the expert trying to speak to everyone from our own experience, but I am married and I just feel like it's unfortunate that I don't feel like we give enough, um, maybe like support when I'm talking on the podcast or, you know, just in general or just enough conversation and acknowledgment that not everyone's in those relationships. And especially if you were and it's a change and, you know, it's just, I can imagine just like a whole lot, especially again with many people knowing who you guys are.

Yeah, definitely. Um, there's so much to say here. I'm not totally sure which direction to take it. Yeah, you know, relationships are challenging. You have to work at them, and you either grow together or you grow apart. And as when you're on the path, it's, it's a lot of work and effort. And so if both partners are not focused on the same goals and objectives and, you know, checking in regularly and making sure that the relationship dynamic is in a good place, it's easy to kind of divert. And then resentment builds up. And so then that just makes it, that just makes it so much harder.

Well, my parents were divorced. They divorced when I was, um, like 8 or 9. It's just funny, my husband, his parents like just divorced like in the last, um, decade. So they divorced after 30-some years of marriage. So, um, I don't know that any of us are free from this happening. And I mean, I, that was okay. So that was, um, in the '80s for me, I just felt like there there was such a stigma around it. Like, I, I wasn't— I was definitely in the minority. Um, and then I felt like divorces peaked a lot. Like, a lot of kids, like, a lot of people my age now have divorced parents, but there wasn't a lot where I was growing up. Um, but then on the other hand, I feel like no one around me is divorced, but it's not true. I don't know, like, just do you feel like there's that same— like, do you feel like there's any awkwardness or stigma around it?

I think in certain groups there is. But the rates of divorce are— yeah, they've gone up a lot.

Yeah.

But I think it's leveled off some. But the reason is because there's less people getting married.

Yeah.

So just as a whole, relationships have changed so much over the years, especially in the modern age, where traditionally people came together for— to raise children. That was it. It wasn't about the romantic love and things like that. I mean, Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, that was a tragedy. Not because it wasn't like this thing to aspire to. It was like, these kids are crazy because they just want to come together for love and not because— not for political reasons.

Not for family.

Or family dynamics or things like that. And so our idea of love and relationships has changed so much over the past several decades. And so I think that's affected a lot of things where we expect our partner to be all things to us, our best friend, our lover, our business partner, partner or confidant, um, you know, all of these different things, which— that's a lot of pressure for any one person to do. And it's kind of like this romantic ideal that is not realistic. And so I think so many people have gotten jaded by that, um, that, that's why there's less marriages in general. Uh, so, and I don't know what the solution is or if there's one. It's just the evolution of people, of relationships. Uh, and all of that.

Well, and I think too, like, if just, you know, I can imagine in my situation, like, it would be so tough to unwind. Just, we only have 2 kids, but just sharing a family, that feels like a lot. But unraveling a business too, that feels like a, yeah, like a whole other part of, part of it. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's not easy and this doesn't have to be, uh, Seth, you gotta tell us what to do in these relationships.

But sure.

Yeah. I just, you know, I just wanted to talk about it a little bit. Yeah. Because I feel like, especially with you guys, you know, again, being part of our world. world here, the people listening to this podcast and listening to Wellness Mama. Um, I, I don't know, did you feel like you let down your fans? Kind of. I feel like there's probably people that kind of— I know Sarah felt like that a lot in her huge, um, you know, platform that she had, that she felt like her personal life was constantly under scrutiny and is a little bit stressful.

Yeah. Um, I didn't feel that per se, but I wasn't necessarily as publicly facing as Katie was. And so there could have been an element of that for her. But, you know, it's not something that we've spoken about as far as how that was portrayed to her. Yeah, I think when anyone is in the public eye, people tend to look at them and they idolize it to an extent, but they also like it when there's failure.

Yeah.

Which is really unfortunate. Yeah, and I think it's because often, And if people aren't living their best life or they're not doing those things to improve themselves, it's almost like it's— they see that and like, oh, well, look at them. They had it all together, but they don't. So it's almost they see it as a reflection of themselves. Oh, I'm not doing so bad.

Yeah, for sure.

As opposed to comparing negatives, let's compare positives. How can we do better? How can we improve? But, you know, like every relationship has an end date. You know, there's a bell curve in everything in life, whether that's a friendship, a romantic relationship, a business, anything. You know, there's a start, it goes up and up, and then there's also a downswing too. And whether that's the dissolution of it, whether that's a death, whether— who knows what that is. And I think we forget that. Uh, so we look at it as like marriage, especially in that marital contract, is that the only acceptable way for it to is death, which is kind of weird if you think about it, you know. Um, but the nature of love is pain, you know. You are going to lose that person one way or the other.

One way or another.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's a really hard thing to grasp. And that's something that I've thought about a lot. When you open your heart and you're starting a relationship with someone, it's going to lead to pain in one way or another, unless you get hit by a train and die. So that— well, there's probably pain there, but physical pain, not the emotional pain.

Right, right.

But for one of the partners, that's going to happen. Uh, and so just the very nature of it. And so the most courageous thing that you can do is to love someone, to open your heart to do that.

Yeah.

Um, which—

That's a good reminder too, to like not lose your— it's tricky to not lose yourself. I know people say that, it sounds so cliché, but like you said, there has to be kind of a balance. We can't always expect every single thing to be coming from our partner. And not the keeping things going for yourself so that, you know, you have the out when things fall apart, but more Just that it, it is a, I think we really forget that. And I'll say this, especially as parents. I mean, our life is all about the kids.

Mm-hmm.

And then work. And then we are so not barely in third place. Like, it, it is really, you know, just, it's kind of the nature of like the age of your kids sometimes. Like their demands are really high right now on our time and emotional capacity. Um, but, and I think it's just, no, I know, like, again, going through like like this midlife mayhem that is like, I don't know, such a reckoning for— and I don't know how it feels for men, but like for women, there's a lot of like, um, and I always say this, this is the stuff that doesn't get solved with HRT. This is the reckoning of the past choices you've made, good and bad. Like that you have a lot of results, you have a lot of life circumstances right now that with your wisdom and your experience, you might make different choices before. And there's a lot of that, you know, what you did with your money, what you did with relationships and friendships you let go, all kinds of stuff. So, um, I think with all of that going through that, it's really, really not always on the forefront of my mind to always be focused on, am I being a good wife? And I really think that it's a, you know, like you said, looking at the positives, um, or, you know, not— I don't know, I'm feeling like we're tearing someone down when a relationship fails. But I think it's just always a good— I shouldn't say fail, but you guys have made relationships change, that, you know, it's a good reminder for all of us to like, if that's important to us, to remember to do all that, keep prioritizing because it is easy to let it go.

I think there is so much pressure, especially on women, on moms in general, and kind of like a third-wave feminist outlook on things, to do all the things, you know, to have the relationship, to raise the kids, to keep the home, to work, to all of this. And that's unfair. It's unrealistic.

realistic.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Relationships, they're challenging. You have to work at it. And I think there's also this perception of when you have kids that they have to be the focus, they have to be at the forefront. And there's so much pressure and guilt that's placed on both men and women to put them first above everything else. I personally think that's a problem because the children came about because of the couple, because of those 2 parents. And so if you're not putting your relationship first and not saying that you're going out and partying and like at the expense of the kids, Right. But being very intentional and having time to connect. And so you're on the same page because when I've seen it happen so many times and this happened with my parents, when the kids are grown and they're out, you look back and like, okay, well, who are we? What do we have in common? What do we do for ourselves or to stay together? And then often they don't because it's like they— it's been like 2 ships passing in the night because they weren't on the same page. And it was like they were together for the kids. in the— later on in the relationship after the initial whenever it started. Uh, and I think that's one of the reasons why we're seeing so many divorces is because it's just like maybe there's— the woman's biological clock is ticking. It's like, I have to get married and like this is what I want. And so I'm just looking for someone just who would be a good father and all that. But are they also going to be a good husband? Are they someone who you want to spend your time with? Because the person that you decide to, uh, to choose as a spouse, as a you're going to be spending so much time with them. I mean, you better like them, you better get along with them, you better have things in common, you know, that you want to have shared experiences and do that whether there's kids or not. I mean, how many times are we seeing where a couple, like, the whole thing is like, we have to have kids, and like, they're infertile, and they spend thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars on infertility treatments and stuff. And then if it doesn't work, they end up getting divorced just because of the stress of it and the pressure, as opposed—

Yeah.

And it's like, that's the only reason that they're together is what it seems like, as opposed to, to. If we get pregnant, we do. If we don't, we don't. But we're here together because we love each other and we enjoy each other's company. And maybe having kids, that's not on the cards for us. So be it. You know, we don't actually deserve that. But I think there's so many people that think that they have to have that, or that's what they deserve because it's the next thing in life. Well, maybe yes, maybe no.

There is a lot of pressure, I know, especially for women, but I can see that for men too. Like think they're just— that is, there's so many pressures of like what feels normal and right. And, and if that is— yeah. And I mean, I've had friends go through, um, like loss of a child too. And—

Yeah.

I have, um, a friend and colleague that, you know, they're still together and they made it through. And like, they, during it, I think they were like, we're trying to make it through. But like, that was it. And they did. And I think, you know, but there's so much pressure in so many different ways, um, around around families and relationships. And I think that, um, it's an easy thing to take for granted. Like, this is the person who loves me and married me, and they're gonna be here. And, you know, I think that that's an easy— it's an easy area for us to get too busy to tend to. And, um, it's just always such a— one of the things I wanted to just chat about is just, like you said, it's a good reminder to just, um, it takes work. It really does.

It does.

And, um, sometimes it doesn't work out, and that's okay too. Like, Whether you said like with the works out to have a family or works out to stay in the relationship. And, um, yeah, I just think it's an— it's a lot of pressure. And like you said, a lot of balls in the air. And women especially do feel like they have to do it all. And I'll be honest, I appreciate the opportunity to do it all, but most of the time it just feels like a lot of work.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that's one of the issues with kind of the masculine-feminine dynamic, where what so many women have been told is that they need to do all of it. But just because you can doesn't mean you should. And the same with men. It's like we're beautifully different and that's amazing and good. And that creates that polarity in what— where that attraction comes from. And so when you try to level that or equalize it, then there isn't the polarity and then you lose that attraction. And that's— that's where the downfall begins. Yeah.

Yeah, it's tough. And again, like doing it a little bit publicly and probably like you said, Katie's a little more public facing, but yeah, that was a challenge. And even like with Sarah and I, when we kind of dissolved our business relationship. That was a horrible breakup, just such a loss and so sad. And like, some of these just huge, huge changes are— they're part of life and they're really hard. And, um, especially, you know, Joe does a minimal amount of stuff for my business, my husband, but, um, you know, even that, I can't even imagine like doing some of these things, you know, with— uh, untangling that little bit would be hard.

Yeah.

And I just, you know, when I had heard about you, you guys going through your, um, change in your relationship, just like how hard that must have been to go through all of that. I don't know, maybe you guys were— it was more like separating everything versus just the family, um, versus just the business.

But yeah, I mean, definitely a challenge. And separating all those things out, it's, you know, it's taken time. Um, but I think that's good. You need that because when you are dividing things up, when you're separating things out, you need that, um, that total split just energetically. Because otherwise there's still those ties and that makes it hard to move on and really uplevel And there's always going to be those ties because of the children.

And that's good.

That's fine. Because that's, you know, the commitment that you made and you have those together. But all those other things that can— the unraveling is definitely a challenge.

Yeah. And it's tricky. I'm watching my brother go through it. I mean, it's been a couple of years now. They are divorced, I guess. But they're still going through it in a sense. And it's interesting to watch because all the same problems they had as a couple are all the same problems they still have now. navigating co-parenting these 2 kids. Um, so, um, I think that just, it's very tricky and, um, yeah, not, not easy. Um, so yeah, I think too, like, some people stayed their businesses together. I know people that have done that too. So that, um, I guess every— not to say there's any right or any wrong, but I certainly just wanted to kind of acknowledge that since so many people know, you know, Katie and you as a thing, as, um, especially Katie as part of Wellness Mama, but, um, Your big role in creating that, which was again such an amazing resource when we didn't have a lot of those resources. Um, and it's just, it's nice to see your guys' evolution and here with the new products because, you know, I— Sarah is much more crunchy mama than I was. It was funny. We were always such a good balance, I think, because she was much more like Northern Cali hippie girl and I was living in New York City and I'm like, yeah, I'm not making my own toothpaste. Someone needs to fix this problem because that's just not happening. And I didn't, you know, don't have— living in the city too, don't have as much access to like those kinds of stores. I'm carrying everything on a subway. You know, we just— some of us, you know, I'm very grateful for you guys actually just doing it for me. That's—

Thank you.

I sound like such a New Yorker there, right? Just get it to me and I'll buy it. Um, but yeah, it's, um, they're very, very cool products. I'm really happy with the results for all of them. I'm always looking for better options for the toothpaste. paste. So that is really great. And I really like the taste of this, the cinnamon. It's my, it's my new fave. So.

Yeah, that's good stuff.

Yeah. So, well, I'm excited to see what else you guys, I assume there'll be more products in the future to continue to round out this line. So there will be a link in the show notes. You do not need a code. You just need to click the link to get the savings and give some of these a try. Again, I'm going to put in my pitch for both the, the mint, the oral probiotic mint, and then the, the cinnamon toothpaste and the deodorant. Again, don't be afraid to try it even if, um, you have had some baking soda deodorant issues in the past, because I really feel it's got to be the concentration. There's just not as much in there. It doesn't seem to be bothering me at all.

So definitely awesome.

Okay, well, again, wellness.com. Um, there'll be a link in the show notes that is from me giving you some savings. And Seth, thanks for your time. We had a hard time, you know, getting this scheduled, so I appreciate you Yeah, thanks for having me, Brooke.

I really enjoyed our conversation today.

All right, everyone, um, don't forget to check those out. I will name my favorites in the show notes, so if you forgot, um, that'll be easy. And again, no code needed, just click the link, and we will see you all on the next episode. If you need more support or would like to become a patient, please visit betterbydrbrook.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please share and please leave a review. Your experience helps other women find the show and get the help that they need.