Ep 17: Brad Brooks on Business, Hunting, & Conservation

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild.

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast.

I'm here today with Brad Brooks, who is the owner and general manager of Argali Outdoors, a backcountry hunting gear and equipment company. Brad is an adventure, conservation, and family man that hails from Boise, Idaho. He's also an all-around great dude and a serious hunter who I've followed kind of online and some of his exploits for years and have purchased many of the products that Argali has, and they are amazing quality. So I'm really excited to have Brad on the show today and kind of hear some of his stories and introduce him to everybody. Brad, welcome to the show.

Yeah, thanks for having me on, Seth.

Totally. Brad, I'd love to dig into your origin story and kind of hear how you got to where you are today because, you know, you've done a lot of different things, starting, starting a successful outdoor brand, been really active in conservation space, and you're also an accomplished hunter. So let's just kind of start at the beginning.

Sure.

Yeah.

It's kind of hard to know where to start, man, because my plan has never been, my life plan has never been to own a gear company or to be in the hunting industry. It wasn't something that was planned out. It feels like a consequence of sort of cascading events, but it's a happy coincidence.

Usually how things work out.

Yeah, yeah, it wasn't— there was never any intent, you know, even 5 years ago to be where I'm at today. But I'm thrilled with where I'm at and I'm very happy with how things have turned out. So let me just start with kind of— I don't know how far back you want me to go, but I can give you the story of the hunting company or— and how kind of how we got here, if that's where you want to start. Yeah.

What were you doing before starting Argali?

Yeah. So, my background is in— my training, I should say, is in environmental economics. And, I've spent years working for public lands conservation. And, that was very intentional. When I left college, I honestly didn't know what I wanted to do. I've always been drawn to the allure of big wild places. Wilderness has played a key role in my life, in what I do and what I value. And after I left college, I got a job with the Forest Service working up in the central mountains, the mountains of central Idaho, Sawtooth National Forest, Sawtooth Wilderness. And for anybody that's ever been to the Sawtooths, it is perhaps one of the most iconic gorgeous mountain ranges you'll ever see. I mean, it's just beautiful, stunning. And so, I spent a summer working up there. And after spending a summer sort of living in the mountains working for the Forest Service, thought, this is really important to me. I love this stuff. If I can find a way to spend my daily life working on something that I care about, then that would be a win. And so, tried to figure out how to do that. Was able to get a job working in public lands conservation and wilderness, wild and scenic rivers. I worked for a company called the Wilderness Society. And again, it was one of those situations where it is very difficult to get a job in that field because there are just a lot of people that want to do it and not a lot of job opportunities. But somehow I kind of stumbled into it and was fortunate enough to spend, oh, 15 years or so doing that kind of work. And And I loved it. I still love it. I'm passionate about it. Those, you know, being able to work on protecting places that other, you know, future generations and other people will be able to use and enjoy in the future is incredibly rewarding. And it gave me, I think, a sense of purpose. So anyways, that's, that was kind of my story prior to Argali and kind of how I spent my My personal time. Yeah.

So it sounds like you have had a passion for nature and the outdoors for years. I'd like to dive into that a little bit more. And can you tell me, where did that love come from? Because it sounds like it was ingrained from a very early age.

Yeah, I don't— I usually— I've been asked that before, and I think my answer is I don't really know. I don't feel like I had a choice though. It's just, it's just, uh, It was clear from an early age that that was who I was and something that was really important to me. My dad is the one who got me into hunting and we spent sort of stereotypical childhood spent hunting and fishing, I imagine. But, he's from the Midwest. My dad's not a Western guy, so he's from Wisconsin. And so, growing up, our hunting experiences were not on horses packing into country. It was, you know, it was more your Midwest whitetail type experience. You know, we would have car camp and day hunt. We would hunt, you know, like we would hunt elk like you would hunt whitetails. So we, you know, we do elk drives or things that fairly uncommon tactics now, but we spent a lot of time outside hunting and fishing. We would do, you know, as a kid, we didn't necessarily have a lot of money. But we would travel all over the place and camp and fish. And that was— yeah, anyway, so I just, I spent a lot of time outside and there was something I can't remember, you know, how old I was. It was probably in high school era where I started going. I found backpacking, you know, I didn't— again, it's not something my, my parents sort of taught me how to do, but I really wanted to do it. And so figured out, I worked in high school, scrounged up enough money to buy a North Face tent at an REI garage sale because I couldn't afford anything else. That tent was a 3-person tent and weighed almost 7 pounds. And I thought it was a fantastic backpacking tent. Now, a 7-pound tent is just kind of outrageous for backpacking, but— And I think I got like a graduation gift or like a backpacking stove. So I scrounged up the gear, borrowed what I could, and mostly just spent those early backpacking trips. It was kind of, you know, a suffer fest. You know, it was never that comfortable, but I don't remember ever not loving it. So, you know, I'm not sure where it comes from, Seth. I think there is something about, you know, people experiencing big wild country that is sort of like a gateway drug. Rarely have I seen, you know, somebody who goes out into, you know, big beautiful country and doesn't feel some sort of connection or pull to it. And I don't care who you are or where you're from. I think it's something that is part of human psyche and we all are drawn to it in some way or at least find some appeal in it. Doesn't mean that everybody wants to go backpacking, but I think that there is something inherent in just people that draws them to it. And, for me, it was clear from a high school age on that those places are really important to me. And, I'd say even back then, I recognized that the value of wild country. There was something that was centering about it. Even today, we had a hard time scheduling this podcast because of me. My life is so scheduled out and I work all the time. It feels like the only place that I can go to escape and sort of recenter my brain and my mind is in wild country. It started back then. I certainly growing up didn't have the same real-world adult responsibilities that I have today, but there's little doubt that that has been a through line for my entire life about why wild country is important.

That makes sense. Yeah. And I found that that is the same with a lot of other people and a lot of other guests that I've interviewed. There's always just something, there's this draw. to nature, to the outdoors, to, to the wild. And, you know, trying to define that, what it is, is can be really challenging. Um, just because it's, it's something innate because it, it goes back to our roots when, you know, we lived under the stars and in the woods and not just in the domesticated life in which we live.

Yeah. Yeah, I'd agree.

Yeah. Let's get into how you got started creating Argali. So you were, you know, you were doing some hunts and working in the conservation space. So how do you jump from that into becoming an entrepreneur and a business owner? Because it sounds like That wasn't how you grew up necessarily.

No, it wasn't. Business has always been an interest of mine. Even though my undergraduate degree was in environmental economics, I ended up getting an MBA along the way just because I was interested in business. I don't really advertise that because it sounds like there's something about telling people that you have an MBA that comes across the wrong way. But, and I have dabbled in different businesses over the years, so it's not like this is my first attempt at running a business.

Let's hear about some of the early ones.

Well, if you want to go way back, I was a little bit of a hustler back in high school. I had a lawn mowing business. We had a snow shoveling business. So, there were some of the early, early ones, which actually made a surprising amount of money for a high school kid. And then, you know, there were some, I would say some, I had a, at one point in time, a rock climbing website that I had dabbled around with playing, which was more, which was, I don't really know what the business strategy was there, to be honest with you in hindsight, but there was something about creating, creating a site that we could, you know, sell ad space on.

Sure.

That had, yeah. So, Yeah. And those were kind of the— I'd say those, then there were some other— Argali was originally— well, let me go way back. So, in 2010, Argali was originally envisioned as a clothing company. So, when I was getting my MBA, this is before I knew about First Light, before Kuyu was on the scene, before Sitka was barely around. And, I had this what I thought was original idea of taking some of the technical designs from clothes that I was wearing at the time, which was largely Patagonia, some North Face pieces, and trying to make them make a merino wool base layer company with some outer layer pieces. In hindsight, that's exactly what some other companies were doing at the exact same time. I live in Idaho. I literally didn't know that First Light existed and they were in ketchup at the time. They were a small, small company that was really not on anybody's that I knew of radar. I didn't know anybody that was wearing First Light at the time. Building a clothing business is difficult. And, at the time, I really had no experience. I was young. Still young, right, Seth? But, I was really young at the time. And, you know, it was, it was hard to sort of piece together, uh, figuring out how to, how to build a clothing business, but I actually made quite a bit of progress. We had some designs, we had a supplier in New Zealand, uh, for the merino. Um, my biggest constraint at the time was capital. I just didn't know how to get the capital I needed to start that business. And it is a capital-intensive, uh, endeavor when you're starting a clothing company.

Yeah. Um, and ultimately it was All the different sizing and the variations and all of that. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you need, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a, I, you know, it's hard to start a clothing brand, I would say, unless you have a few hundred thousand dollars in capital to get started. And, you know, not having that laying around and not having access to that through, you know, family and friends, my options were to mortgage my house and At the time, I got married in 2010 and I didn't feel at the time like it was a really good way for my wife and I to start our life together of me mortgaging our house to the hilt and on this bet.

Sure.

Now, it just, I don't know how to describe it to say that like where I'm at now, I have a pretty good sense of what risks I want to take. At the time, it felt like more risk than I wanted to bite off.

Sure.

And if there's one thing that any business owner can understand, it's that every day you're calculating risk and making risk assessments, whether that's financial or otherwise. And I just, I don't think at that point in my life I really understood what risks were worth taking and which ones weren't. That one was It was too much risk for me at the time, so I shelved the idea. I still have my designs, you know, I still have my, my camo pattern that I developed, which, you know, I actually looked at about, uh, 6 months ago. I don't know how I, I was sifting through some of my old files and I was like, that's still a pretty good looking camo pattern. I think that would hold up today. Um, but anyways, that was sort of the, the origination of Argali. the original idea for Argali. And then after, just to kind of fast forward, I kind of shelved it and I was like, eh, I'm not sure this is gonna work out. About 5 years later, my now business partner and I were talking about hunting media and content and how the content at the time, which again, I'm not sure if people really remember back, but there was, it It was largely— hunting content was largely a TV-driven enterprise.

Yeah.

Sportsman Channel, Outdoor Channel, that's where hunting content was largely being consumed. YouTube was around and there was good YouTube content, but it was not like it is today. It's exploded. And, you know, so we— there was no business. Like, we just wanted to make a film that was sort of capturing what was important to us about hunting. And that was really connection to place and connection to wild places. So we made a film and that film, that was it. There was no business. It was, we want to make a piece of content and tell a story. And that's all there was. And we tried to sell, came up with a pitch and tried to sell it to some companies, not sell the film, but sell the idea to see if it resonated. sort of the basis for what we were trying to do had appeal. And in some ways, that was a calculated test to see if this idea for Argali was something that other people found interest in. And that's kind of how we got our start.

Gotcha. Well, that's fascinating. A couple of things I want to touch on here. You said something really interesting about how there were all these other companies that were kind of starting around the same time and you were unaware of it. And I've noticed that in a lot of different industries. And even throughout history, we've seen that where people, scientists, inventors, they were working on almost the exact same thing in completely different areas of the world. But it's almost like there was this collective consciousness that people, it's tying everyone together where they're all kind of working on very similar things. And I find that absolutely fascinating. Have you thought about that at all?

Yes. It also makes me think that— it's made me realize that timing is everything in life and in business.

Mm-hmm.

And I don't know why there were so many— I shouldn't say so many of us, but there were probably 4 companies that I'm aware of that were kind of doing— striving for the same thing at the same time. And some of them no longer exist, but the ones that have survived First Light, Kuyu, and Sitka are probably the biggest 3 that come to my mind. I think the folks who started that company, they all had the same sort of a similar idea right around the same time, sort of came to this realization. I imagine there were a lot of other people who had the same thought and the same idea. The difference is, as you and I well know, Seth, that when it comes to building a business, You know, an idea is one thing, but having the understanding of how to take your idea and turn it into something tangible, whole other set of skills, right?

Yes.

So I don't even know that it was, you know, just a few people. I imagine there were a lot of people who had the idea of taking technical clothing and bringing it to the hunting world. But it is interesting and noteworthy that it sort of seemed to— there seemed to be these periods of time, just like you mentioned, where it's like Why is it around 2010, all of a sudden there's like, you know, 3 technical hunting clothing companies? Why not 3 years earlier or 3 years later? I don't know.

Or even spread out further where it was like one started in '08 and the other one started in 2012 and spread out more. It's— yeah, I find that fascinating. I've seen that in a lot of different industries over the years and even historically too. So just, I don't know what it is, but it's really interesting. Uh, Brad, where did the name of the company come from? So, I know what an Argali is. How did you decide on that?

Yeah, there isn't really a super interesting backstory there, Seth. It's just that I like the symbolism of sheep. Argali was sort of short and sweet to the point and unique enough. And, there's something— sheep are an iconic species. Anybody who's aware or spent time in sheep country knows that sheep country is rugged, wild, Typically fairly desolate. I don't care if you're hunting sheep in North America, Canada, or Middle East. And so, there's a symbolism, there's something about sheep in particular in the country they inhabit that was emblematic of what I cared about and what I valued. So, that's really kind of how we got where the name came from. Cool.

So something else that you had mentioned, um, or talking about creating the films and when you were getting started. So I believe you're doing that with your, with your brothers and maybe your father as well. Am I correct on that?

No, they've, they've all been in our content. Um, that first film, uh, I made with my older brother and I, and we, we, I try and hunt and bring out my brothers into my, our content, um, as much as possible just because I like hunting with them, but Yeah, that first film, my business partner Jason and I made it. My brother was one of the people in the film.

Got it. I see. Yeah, because with our company, with Rewild Gear, it's— there's 4 brothers involved. And so I'm always fascinated by family businesses and when people come together and work together because there's already that bond and you already know someone so well and you can trust her, which is great. And, you know, our mutual friends and business partners, White River Knives, kind of the same thing, you know, family owned and all of that. I just hung out with all of them at Blade Show over, over the weekend and just, you know, just established that relationship even further because we're working together. And I just love family-type businesses like that where it kind of ties together, and especially when it comes to hunting. You know, you're sitting around the fire and drinking bourbon in the evening or maybe coffee in the morning and just telling stories about the hunt. So I'd kind of like to hear some of your stories there surrounding that, spending time with family in the outdoors.

Yeah, I mean, I have 2 brothers. My older brother and I are close in age and grew up hunting together. My younger brother's 4 and a half years younger than me, so I'm the middle brother. But yeah, family is important for a lot of reasons. I think it's hard to describe, but it's also something that we have leaned into the familial connection in our content. And I don't think you need to have, you know, 2 brothers or 4 brothers to be able to relate to the connection of family, whether that's in hunting or, or any other aspect of your life. Um, so yeah, my brother, my older brother and I, you know, we grew up hunting, I'd say, more together than my younger brother and I did. Um, it's been, you know, one of the great things about getting a little bit older is, you know, you sort of for us anyway, we all kind of did our own thing in our early, you know, I'd say late teenage years through our 20s. And now that we all are, you know, married and have kids now, have kind of come back together. We all sort of live in the same area and—

That's helpful.

Now get to hunt together. Yeah, it is, it is helpful. And get to hunt together and hang out together as adults, um, which is great. I mean, there's nobody that Nobody understands you like your family does.

Yeah, for better or worse.

Good and bad. Yeah, exactly.

Totally.

So anyways, yeah, it's, it's, um, and I, I try to hunt with my family, my brothers, as much as I can. It's, it, it gets hard with, um, responsibilities and other things to, to carve out time to hunt with family and friends. I think one of the things that, for me at least, that I, uh, I've been I'm trying to be more intentional about is finding time to hunt with friends I used to hunt with that I just, because of responsibilities I have, I just don't have time to hunt with them anymore. And I don't like that. Um, so I'm trying to make time to, uh, you know, hunt with people that I grew up hunting with, um, that I, I miss spending time with.

Yeah, that makes sense. Something else when it comes to family is kind of that work-life balance. How do you balance all that, you know, with, with family, with being married, with kids, spending time, you know, on your company, on your business, the conservation efforts, and then spending time hunting and under the stars?

Oh, it's a daily struggle.

Daily.

Um, it is, it is one of the challenges. I, you know, I, I deal with this every day. You know, I mean, I have 2 young girls and, and, uh, a fantastic partner, and they are the most important thing to me. For me though, you know, it's— I know that for me to be me, I have to go out and hunt and spend time in wild country. But it's also a little bit selfish, right? And when I'm gone, it's not easy on my wife. My girls are, you know, not necessarily thrilled that I'm not around when I'm gone.

Sure.

And so it's a balancing act when I'm home. I'm home. I try and be present, spend time with my kids as much as I can, take them out fishing. We take them out hiking, we take them out camping. So I do everything I can while I'm here to spend time with them and be with them. But I think if you were to ask people around me, they would probably tell you that I'm gone a lot and I work a lot. And so, uh, and I don't, uh, I don't know, man. This is one of those things that is, uh, it's, it's a tough one, uh, for me anyways, because the worst thing you can do as a father and as a, as a family man, a family person I should say, is not be present for your family or feel like they're getting the short end of the stick in favor of some of these other, you know, hunting or business or whatever else it is people have going on in their lives.

Yeah.

So, you know, I think being brutally honest about it with my wife and I, we talk about it all the time. You know, when I'm— the fall, I'm gone. I am gone a lot traveling and hunting. You know, this fall I'm gonna be gone for, you know, a 6-week stint up in Alaska. My family's gonna come up for, you know, on the front third of that for about a week to hang out with me, but You know, there'll be about a month period where I'm not gonna see my kids or my wife, which is—

Wow.

A long time. Yeah, that's a long time. And, you know, I don't know that I'll ever do this again in my life, but that'll be hard. You know, to be honest with you, like, that'll be as hard on me as it is on anybody else because I, I actually like being around my family.

Yeah.

Um, so anyways, there's a— I think it's just a balancing act of, you know, doing what For me, what I feel like I need to in order, uh, in order to like live my life. And also, you know, not being a— excuse my language— not being a total asshole and being completely selfish.

Sure.

And trying to be present for your kids and, and making sure that they're feeling like they're, you know, you're giving them the attention they need. Um, so it's, it is a balancing act though, man. And I, I don't know what the formula is and I'm constantly evaluating it.

I hear that. It's— well, it sounds like your wife is incredibly supportive around that. How, how does she deal with that while you're gone, and how do you trade off there when, when you're home so that she can get some of that downtime too?

She is supportive. Uh, if I were to— if she were here on here, I don't, I don't think she would be— say that she's like thrilled about any of the time being gone, but I think she understands me, and I, I think that that's kind of one of the keys to Our relationship is just finding somebody who kind of— we kind of understand each other. She has her own hobbies, passions, interests. And when I am home, support her as much as I can. So, if she wants to go do something, great. We schedule, make sure that we have sort of scheduled structured time where I think she gets to go do her thing away from the kids.

Yeah.

Which she's doing right now actually. So yeah, and I think the other thing I try and do is say like, okay, if like this year we went to Hawaii, bring the kids and her up to Alaska, I get to see a lot of places and a lot of cool things just through hunting. Hunting has taken me to some incredible places. And my wife isn't somebody who— she's not a hunter. She doesn't have any desire to suffer in the, uh, out hunting kind of in the way that, that, um, I seem to, seem to do from time to time. But she does love equal country.

Are we—

What's that?

We're all something of a masochist, aren't we?

Yeah. So anyways, but I try and just make time to, to do family stuff and things that she wants to do. And I'm conscious of, you know, making time for trips and vacations that are things that she wants to do that aren't just like places I want to go. So When it comes to non-hunting trips, um, I try and make sure that those are largely driven by what she wants to do, not what I want to do. So if that's, if that's going to Central America, if that's going to Hawaii, uh, if that's going camping, that's, that's, that's perfect. That's great. So, yeah.

And I think the trade-off here, or part of it, is that by the things that you're doing, building, growing a business, uh, building Argali, doing the films, all of those things, some of those marketing efforts, that gives you the ability to take those other trips. So it's like, it's a trade-off.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a trade-off. And, you know, my wife now, she works for Argyle now full-time. So, um, I mean, there is some, and, you know, that gives her, she, she runs, if, you know, she runs all of our customer service. So anybody who has ever, you know, writes in customer service, that's all Angie. She handles all that. Um, a lot of our logistics, dealer sales, all that kind of stuff. So as a result, you know, she, she's, she comes from a background in, um, retail. And also was a kindergarten teacher, but, you know, working for the company gives her some flexibility as well. So it allows us to have some flexibility in our lives as well.

Yeah, I know that makes sense. That's great. And Brad, how many nights a year are you typically spending under the stars just on average?

I haven't counted it up in a while. I probably spent Um, you're making me, you're making me wonder now. I probably spent 75, at least 75 nights in a tent last year.

Okay. Wow.

That's great. Yeah. It's a lot, but so yeah, it might be more than that. Some years it's gone up, you know, it's been higher than that. Um, I can remember years where I've spent, you know, like upwards of 100 nights out, but that was like pre-kids, you know, I don't, I don't spend—

sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, I got it. So as a company, Argali has taken a very strong conservation stance. So I'd love to dig into that just a little bit as far as, um, you know, why conservation is so important to you and what you see the biggest threats are today when it comes to protecting our wild spaces, our wild animals, um, and all of those topics surrounding conservation and environmentalism. Yep.

Um, it's not, you know, for us, the conservation stuff is not a marketing ploy. I mean, that is, it's built into like why we started this. And so Um, you're sorry, your question, your why, like, so anyway, so I don't know if you're, I can't remember if your question was why is conservation so important and what the biggest issues are.

More, yeah, more what you see the biggest issues today, um, biggest threats are and how, how you guys are going about helping that.

Gotcha. So the, let me just start with the big, like how we engage in conservation. So we support, you know, financially and with product donations to groups that I consider to be representing hunting and angling interests in conservation sort of across the country. So that's, you know, National Wildlife Federation, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, um, you know, TRCP, other groups. Um, we are intentional about the groups we support. I'm also intentional about the groups we don't— we don't support too. So, um, we are, you know, we don't just support the groups that, you know, are gonna— we think might give us a marketing advantage. I support the groups that I think align with our values. And, there are a lot of great groups doing a lot of great work out there. So anyway, so that's kind of how we do it. I'd say we also spend as much as we can, we spend time if there's a need doing some work that might be stewardship work doing a restoration project, planting shrubs on winter range, et cetera. So anyways, let me just circle back. Biggest threats to our wild country today. Honestly, probably the biggest threat that I see from the hunting and angling community to wild country is lack of interest and understanding that there is a threat. I think that there is a, I would say, a fallacy that people believe that things are always going to stay the way they are. And that there is just this sort of even keel state that like, well, if I've always gone to this place and I've always liked it, it's always going to be that way. And I think a lack of understanding that the places that if you ever go to a piece of wild country, whether that's wilderness, a national recreation area, a refuge, a wildlife refuge, whatever that is, that place is protected because there were a set of people who understood that in order to have that place be like it is, you know, in perpetuity or into the future, it requires some action and some forward thinking in, in, uh, in terms of like figuring out like how, how can we protect this place into the future and keep it the way it is. And that is not, you know, anybody who's ever worked to protect a place knows that that is not easy. And it is not uncontroversial. So I think, again, just like the biggest threat is people being willing, people understanding that it requires taking a stance and it requires being able to support protecting wild country. And it isn't just going to happen by just not doing anything. And then in terms of specific threats, They run the gamut. It's typical sort of like civilized society intrusions into wild country. So, if you think about, Seth, one way to think about it is back when there was first westward expansion in the US, right? So, white people encroaching on what was land that was largely just inhabited by Native tribes. You could argue that it was sort of like one vast wilderness area. There weren't roads in the way that we know them today. Native tribes certainly had roads that they used in some places to go hunt buffalo or go between different territories, but it was largely one, what we would call small-w wilderness. And over time, we have just slowly chipped away at the amount of places that are difficult to get to. And the amount of wild country is just shrinking, right, every day because of roads, civilizations increasing in size. That, you know, our impact as a species on the planet and our footprint is growing, not shrinking over time.

Right.

So 30 years from now, 50 years from now, we're not going to have a smaller imprint than we do today. We're going to have a larger, larger imprint. And I, you know, that is what it is, you know, society, we're growing as a species. I think what I'm hoping people understand is that there's a trade-off for that. And for me, the loss of the ability to get lost in wild country is a tragedy. There should be places where we can all go and get lost. And, you know, I wonder what it's going to be like 50, 75, 100 years from now. Like, what are the opportunities that are going to be out there for people to just wander out in the woods and just get lost? Now, for most people, that's terrifying. But for me, it's like, I would love the idea, you know, the idea of not having that ability is also sort of terrifying to me.

I think that's great info just as far as, you know, protecting those wild spaces because we definitely are Those are being encroached on every day. And one thing that I'm interested in is rewilding some of those places that used to be wild and that have become more domesticated, but we can turn some of those back into those places. For example, in Kentucky, where I'm from, you know, they reintroduced elk in kind of the Appalachian and coal country. And some of those old coal mines, those are being reverted back to the more wild, wild countryside that it used to be. And so that's where some of the elk are inhabiting now. So, and I'm pretty fascinated by that and think there's opportunity there throughout the country in places like that.

Yeah.

Have you looked into that at all?

I haven't, but I think that's super intriguing and I think that's a great idea, Seth, because there are still a lot of places that we can have a lot of wild character that we can protect. But, the reality is that there's also a lot of opportunity in what you're talking about, which is rewilding country. I'd say where I live in the West, There's opportunity for that. I think, you know, we're still fortunate to have a lot of wild country. And I'd say my personal interest and passion is in trying to keep as much of that as we can so we don't lose it. But I think there's, you know, like you're saying, there's, you know, there is a lot of opportunity for rewilding country. And, you know, certainly you see— I've seen some of that through, you know, new— there are, you know, wildlife refuges I've seen being created around some urban areas where there's like ranches, former ranches or farmland are being— have been purchased and turned into marshlands or just other sort of wildlife habitat that people can then go use. So it's a cool idea.

Yeah, totally. Brad, a couple questions here. What is your most memorable outdoor experience and what did you learn from it? And what adventurous experience would you never want to repeat and why? Typically, I ask those as 2 separate questions, but I've found that often it can be the same thing. It's the, the one that might have been the craziest is the one that we learned the most from. So maybe those are separate, maybe it's the same one.

Um, yeah, those are, uh, those are good questions. I'd say the one that I, the one that I probably wouldn't repeat again is, is these are both rock climbing experiences. So in addition to hunting, rock climbing is another passion of mine. Um, There's a lot of risk inherent in climbing. And there was a particular climb I did right after I had our first kid. And I'm never somebody who's thought about dialing back my risk because of kids, but I had a very distinct moment where I was in a situation where lead climbing in the middle of nowhere, 5,000 feet off the ground. And had I fallen, I don't know what would've happened, but it was a high-risk scenario either where it was like death or your legs are gonna be broken, you're gonna be pretty messed up. So I don't really wanna repeat that. And I remember having a distinct moment while I was leading and it was pretty hard climbing what we were doing. And I just remember having a moment which I had never had before, which was like, you're a dad now. It's not okay for you not to come home. So, so I think about that and I also think about, you know, taking, you know, smarter risks when I'm out outside. That said, I am spending a whole lot of time in grizz country up in Alaska this year. And I don't, but I don't view that as insane playing. So that's one I wouldn't want to repeat. I'd say my most memorable experience though, that I have never forgotten is when I was 15 hunting elk. And the first time I can remember going off by myself, like without my, my dad for an extended period of time, like hunting in the mountains and got lost, like utterly lost. And I was unprepared, got dark, and somehow found my way back to camp in the dark. I was terrified though. Yeah.

And what did you learn from that?

Pay attention to where you're going and always bring a headlamp.

That's a good segue into my next question of what gear do you consider essential that you always bring with you whenever you're on a wilderness adventure?

A knife for sure, which is fitting. Good pair of boots is always a must. Yeah, there's, there's a bunch of them. There's a handful of things that are really important. I'd say proper clothing, proper pair of boots, and a knife will get you through a lot.

Yeah. Well, we're big fans of knives over here, as you are too.

Yeah.

I'd like to ask just a couple quick questions about some of the equipment that Argali makes and how you decided to get into the actual products that, that you are. So obviously you're known for your game bags and getting to be very well known for your knives as well, which I love. Also, can you kind of explain that as far as how you decided which products and kind of the sequence there?

Yeah. Um, you know, I'm pretty meticulous about my gear. And I'm always sort of picking apart the things I'm using. And when it came to game bags, the first product we made and the game bags, I was out, you know, most of the product ideas I have come, you know, while I'm using product and I can just remember distinctly having an experience where it occurred to me that the game bags I was using at the time, and I've used a bunch of them, weren't really made in a way that I wanted. And so, I made my own with technical features and some materials that I thought were more well-suited to the style of hunting that I was doing. And specifically, We make a set of reusable game bags that are made to be durable, reusable, lightweight, and also have some materials built in that are reusable. So, for example, I never understood why the cinch cord on game bags weren't made out of paracord that you could actually use in the field for field repairs and gear repairs.

Yeah.

And so, we used 275-pound reflective orange paracord in our game bags. Because you can use it to retie a D-loop, tie down a tent, or for any number of field uses when you're out hunting. And then, we put reflective logos and reflective paracord in our bags because I have found myself many times trying to go retrieve meat in the middle of the night. And, sometimes it's easy to find your game bags and sometimes it's not, but the reflective material sort of built into our product just make it easy to see at night. Anybody who's ever used our product will know that you can see them from a long ways away. As a result, we wanted to make a product that was both reusable, so you didn't have to buy a new set of game bags every year, that were durable and would hold up over time, and were made out of materials that were reusable. Most of the companies that were making game bags prior to us, I would say they were trying to sell a set of game bags for each species. So pronghorn, you know, mule deer, whitetail deer. And it's like, to me, that was always ridiculous as a consumer. Those animals are damn near the same size.

Yeah.

You should be able to make one set of game bags for all of those. You might make less money as a company, but it's an honest way to make a product instead of trying to sell people something based on the species. Um, so that might have been a, uh, for some people, a poor business decision, but as a consumer, it felt honest. And so we created, you know, one set of game bags for deer-sized game, one set for caribou and elk-sized game. And then, so, and then we've since added moose, some moose kits. But essentially, with 3 sets of game bags that are sized appropriately, you know, you can fit any North American big game animal. So anyway, so it came down to the material, the fabric, quality construction, and then just light, the weight and the space that our products take up.

And then your knives as well. So those are fantastic pieces too. How did you get into that?

Um, you know, I, I have used a lot of different knives. I've used fixed blades, I've used replaceable blade knives. Um, there was— I've never really felt like replaceable blade— replaceable blades, first of all, I've broken off a lot of replaceable blade knives inside of animals when I'm cutting them up. Um, I've had some, you know, friends, you know, they're crazy sharp. They have a place, but I'm not a fan. Just didn't feel like the right tool for the job for me. The challenge was, as a lightweight hunter and largely as a backpack hunter, I wanted to be able to create a knife that was able to retain an edge through an entire elk. I didn't want to have to carry a knife sharpener with me if I was backpack hunting, if I was carrying a fixed blade knife. So I wanted to create a knife that could achieve that result. And was also the length and the shape of the blade was designed to be sort of the jack of all trades for hunting. I didn't, I don't, I didn't want to, as a user, have to carry multiple fixed blade knives, you know, one for skinning, one for deboning. I wanted one knife that could do everything. And, you know, not that there weren't knives out there that could do that, but there weren't, they weren't done in the way that I wanted them to be done. And so that was the design idea for our first knife, which is our Carbon knife. And so we made that, and then that was, you know, well received. And then we've since gone on, we have 3 knives that we make kind of with different blade profiles and shapes, mostly for personal— based on personal preference. All of them though use the same S35VN steel, and all of them are designed to do anything you need to do. So they're not— I don't sell a skinning knife. and/or deboning knife, you know, they're all designed to do everything. You can do everything you need to do with one knife. They just have different features based on sort of people's preferences.

Yeah, that's great. And then you've got the new belt coming out this fall, which is super cool.

Yeah, our Kodiak belt, which is a belt. It's a belt and a knife sharpener in one, essentially. So it has a— it is a belt designed to be, you know, a belt that you would want to wear hunting and backpacking, no matter, you know, even without the knife sharpening features. And that was sort of the— what I wanted to create was instead of, you know, we get asked a lot about like which knife sharpener works with your knife in the field. And there are some really good field sharpeners out there. I didn't want— I don't carry a knife sharpener with me because I just don't want to have to carry that extra weight. So anyways, our Kodiak belt incorporates 3 different sharpening elements into it. There is a tungsten carbide sharpening bar on the top of the belt buckle that's sort of embedded in the buckle. So, there's a thin aluminum buckle on the belt itself. That tungsten carbide bar, which actually works really well as a sharpening element, took a lot of testing to figure— get the sort of chemical components of that tungsten carbide just right so it was effective as a knife sharpener. That is what most people will use sort of 90% of the time. You can use that to touch up any blade in the field. We also put on the back of the buckle, if you need to reshape your blade, there is an embedded 800-grit diamond grit plate that sort of seats flush with the back of your buckle. And so you can use that as a fairly fine-grained diamond grit, but you can use that in the field to reshape your blade. And then, the final sharpening implement is a chunk of vegetable-tanned leather sort of sewn into the side of the belt. So, the idea is you can shape-sharpen or hone any knife, broadhead, or anything else you need to. It works super well. Yeah. And, we did a presale this spring and that product will actually be in the field here starting in early October. But yeah, really very proud of that product because it took a long time to figure out. Yeah.

I pre-ordered one. I can't wait to try it out.

Oh, all right. Glad.

Yeah, super. Brad, other than, other than your own company, what other brands do you feel like are doing just a great job with product quality? Because you're obviously very, uh, very conscious of, of quality and products and doing things the right way and being intellectually honest with all of that.

Yeah, man, there are a lot. So I would say, you know, First Light is a company that I've worked with for years who takes product feedback very seriously. Um, you know, all the companies that, that I use their gear, I give them feedback. And I also like getting, you know, receiving feedback on quality issues. Uh, Vortex is one that, you know, takes quality control very seriously. Um, uh, you know, a brand that I don't work with but I think makes a really high quality product is Feathered Friends. Their sleeping bags are phenomenal.

Oh yeah.

Yep. Of all the sleeping bags I've used, those are some of the best high-quality bags I've ever used. Another one that takes quality really seriously, I'd say, is EXO Mountain Gear here in Boise. My friend Steve runs that company. And I'd say Steve and I are comparable in some ways about just being incredibly meticulous around the details of product. So those are just a few off the top of my head I can think of.

Yeah. Yeah, super. No, that's great. Thank you, Brad. Is, is there a book or books that have had a massive impact on your life?

Oh man, massive impact. I don't know about that. Yeah, for sure.

It's been very influential.

Yeah, for sure. You know, Santa County Almanac, Otto Leopold. That's kind of a classic one. Terry Tempest Williams wrote a book. I'm blanking on the name of it though right now. Oh gosh, I can't remember the name of it, but Terry Tempest Williams has a book about the Southern Utah desert country that I've read a number of times that was really important.

Yeah.

I tend to, Seth, I tend to read books and kind of remember the idea of what I read, but not remember like sometimes who wrote it or what the title of the book was.

Sure.

So yeah, I'd say some of the books that I take inspiration from really don't have anything to do with like hunting or business. As an example, I'm reading a book right now called Rebel Yell about Stonewall Jackson, and it's sort of Civil War era history. I probably won't remember the name of that book, you know, 10 years from now, but I'll tell you one thing I remember is just Stonewall Jackson's management personality and his way of approaching, approaching risk. I'll always remember that because I find it very fascinating and a lot of parallels with business. So.

Yeah, that makes sense. And I find that that's the same for me if I'm reading on a Kindle as opposed to a physical book, because then you kind of lose that visual element of seeing the title, the, the author, you know, the COVID And you're associating it. So if you're reading on a Kindle, that's probably the same, maybe.

Yeah.

Brad, do you have a favorite podcast?

Oh man, that's another great question. I tend to— I listened to a lot more podcasts in the pre-COVID era because I was always traveling, so I had a lot of time to listen to podcasts. I think if I had to pick one, I would say Hidden Brain is my favorite. Not familiar with that one. I'll have to check that out. Hidden Brain is a social science podcast. It's on NPR. It's really about— it's a very— I find it to be a fascinating podcast about human nature. And in a lot of different— there's a lot of different— it covers a wide variety of topics, but there are a lot of parallels in that podcast, interesting topics that can be applied to sort of, you know, personal and business life. Um, you know, and I have, you know, I, you know, listen to Meat Eater podcasts as well, um, like Steve's podcast. But, um, I'd say Hidden Brain is probably my favorite just because it's interesting.

Yeah, great. Brad, what's one final piece of closing advice that you would give to our audience?

Figure out something that, uh, interests you and in your life and find something interesting and figure out how to make that your job.

Yeah, that's good advice. Thank you. And where can people find you online if they want to learn what you're doing, follow you on social, check out Argali Conservation?

Yeah, you can, uh, Argali Official is our Instagram handle. And then our website, argaliaoutdoors.com, is probably the best way to find us on the internet.

Super. Brad, thanks so much for your time today. I'm gonna let you get to your kids, and thanks everyone for listening.

All right. Yes. Thanks, Seth. I appreciate your patience.

Of course.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You can check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of Our high-quality, minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.