Ep 24: Marcus Ewing on Hunting & The Average Conservationist

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild.

Welcome to the Adventure Made Podcast.

Podcast brought to you by Rewild Gear. I'm your host, Seth Spears, and I'm here today with Marcus Ewing. Marcus is the owner and founder of The Average Conservationist. He was born and raised in northern Lower Michigan, where he spent much of his youth hunting, fishing, camping, playing sports, and just being outdoors. Since starting the company and podcast, he has partnered with 2% for Conservation to host The Average Conservationist podcast that features primarily businesses and individuals who have made it a focus to give back to wildlife. And Rewild Gear is very proud to be a certified member of 2%. For conservation. Marcus, welcome to the show.

Seth, how are you, man? Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

I am great. So glad to have you here. This is our second time recording because the first time we had some technical difficulties. So we're hoping that this interview is going to be as good as the first one that you guys don't get to hear.

Yeah, I felt like we hit the first one out of the park, so hopefully we can follow up with another good one.

Yeah, totally. Marcus, so let's start to dig in here. Love to just hear your background story. How did you get into business, into conservation, and into the outdoor industry in Yeah, so good question.

Uh, I'll kind of, yeah, give you the background. So I was, like you mentioned in the intro there, I was born and raised in northern Lower Michigan here. Um, uh, was really introduced to the outdoors at a pretty early age. My dad was a very avid, uh, outdoorsman, uh, anything from, uh, waterfowl hunting, deer hunting, upland hunting, uh, you know, just regular fishing. And then as I got a little bit older, he got into fly fishing. Which is where I picked that up and really started to enjoy that. And really did a lot of that throughout my youth. It was really kind of a way to spend time with my dad and with my grandpa and my uncles. And, you know, where I grew up, being, you know, like being exposed to the outdoors at an early age and, you know, experiencing like deer camp and things like that were almost kind of like a rite of passage for a young kid. You know, not just boys, but but girls as well. Excuse me, and yeah, it's just one of those things that I just kind of fell in love with. I mean, the area that I grew up in was pretty rural, so I had you know very easy and quick access to you know lakes and woods and rivers and everything like that. So you know, I wasn't we didn't have to to really like kind of set aside a whole day to get to get outdoors. I mean, we could. You know, my dad could come home from work. Hey, you want to go fishing? Sure. Pack up the boat, and you know, twenty minutes later we're at the boat launch. Right? So it was really pretty easy to to get involved and to stay involved. And then as I got older, it just I kind of I got into high school, and like a lot of high school kids, you know, sports, girls, friends, you know, the whole nine yards. That kind of oh yeah, yeah, right. That was kind of at the forefront of things. And then I got into college, um, and I played some sports in college, so I didn't really have a ton of free time then, especially during the fall when, uh, you know, I would typically be doing some whitetail hunting. So there was this, this gap of probably like 6 or 7 years where I wasn't doing a whole lot, uh, maybe some fishing in like the spring or the summertime, but as far as like fall activities, it just— I just didn't have the time for it. Um, and then kind of fast forward, uh, to after I graduated college, my dad got sick And, you know, it was just a way it kind of made me realize, you know, how short time is. So it really kind of lit a fire under me to want to get back to spending a lot of time with him outdoors. And then from there, I think as I got older and things like that, you know, unfortunate circumstances like with my dad started to happen, I just started to realize how much I loved it in the first place. You know, it was it was kind of brought me back to, to being a kid again and how much I enjoyed all that stuff. And, you know, he, he passed away about coming up on 12 years ago, 11 or 12 years ago now.

Yeah.

And, you know, since then it's, it's really been a way for me to kind of connect with him even though he's not here, right? I mean, every time, you know, whether I'm fishing or, or I'm hunting, and I think that's what I like about hunting is, you know, the solitude of it, uh, the being alone kind of with your thoughts and being one with nature and just kind of lets me, you know, feel connected to him, as kind of cliché as that may sound. But I think the outdoors is, you know, does that for a lot of different people that maybe have had some, some life experiences that were, you know, less than pleasant. So kind of fast forward to probably 2 and a half years ago, the job I was working, unfortunately, I was very unexpectedly let go. And, you know, I was—

That happens quite often these days.

Yeah, it really does. And, you know, at the time I was, you know, really kind of discouraged and really bummed out and whatnot. But in hindsight, it was absolutely a blessing in disguise. Um, you know, I was working, you know, a ton of hours. I was on the road a lot. So I was away from, uh, at the time my, you know, my daughter was young. I had my son was on the way. So it was kind of an opportunity for me to really kind of pick and choose or be picky, I guess, with what my next endeavor was going to be. And I've always, I've always loved, you know, just kind of hats and t-shirts. And I'm a pretty simple guy when it comes to my wardrobe, I guess.

Yeah.

And, uh, you know, I had this idea. I was like, well, what, you know, I was talking to my wife. I said, what if we started, um, you know, an apparel— if I started an apparel company and, you know, we donate some money back to conservation as, as part of it? And, you know, by the grace of God, I guess she was on board for it. I mean, she knew how much I loved, you know, being outdoors and how passionate I was kind of about giving back and conservation and everything. So she thought that this was a really good idea. So out of that came The Average Conservationist, which is an apparel brand. We make t-shirts, sweatshirts, and hats, and then we're donating 10% of our profits back to various conservation organizations.

Amazing. That's fantastic. Something you said earlier is one of my favorite words. You mentioned deer camp.

Yes.

I'd love to hear a little bit more about your experience with that over the years and from an early age. Because for me, I have property in Kentucky where I'm from originally. And, you know, it was one of the big impetuses for us to start Rewild Gear. And the concept had kind of come about before then, but it really was solidified while at deer camp, hanging out at the cabin, you know, drinking bourbon or Jägermeister around the campfire and telling stories and comparing gear and all of that. And so I think there is something that is incredibly bonding just as men and women too, but men primarily sitting around a fire telling stories and While hunting, and deer camp is kind of one of those things that gets passed down from generation to generation, and they're amazing memories. And so I'd love to hear some of your stories just surrounding that experience with you and your family.

Yeah, so I mean, I think I probably started actually going to deer camp when I was probably 11, 12 years old, where I couldn't actually hunt just yet, but I, you know, I was at that age where my dad felt comfortable enough to bring me along. But a lot of times we would go, my grandfather, so this would be my mom's dad, had some property up in the UP and he owned that with some of his friends. So that's where my dad and I would go. And I remember when we first started going, it was, you know, I was sleeping on a cot kind of in the living room. And, you know, there was, I think there was, I think there was electricity and running water, but it wasn't, it wasn't the Ritz-Carlton by any stretch of the imagination.

You're high rolling. Our cabin has no electricity and no running water. Yeah.

It was pretty rural in terms of where it was at. I mean, I grew up in a small community and this was kind of in the middle of the woods. I think the next closest town or really kind of populated civilization was probably a good half hour away. But I remember they were always drinking and obviously I was not even close to the age of, but playing cribbage or playing euchre, playing some of these card games and just sitting around and And telling stories about the day, and you know, as as I got older, I started to appreciate that a whole lot more because I like I felt like one of the guys, right? Even at a young age, like you just you feel like you belong, and you know you've heard stories about you know deer camp and whatnot as you were a kid growing up before you were able to to go and participate. And you know every kid wants to be like their dad, right? Every kid wants to to do what their dad does, to hang out with them and and be cool like that. So that was kind of always one of the things I loved about it was feeling like I was, you know, kind of a part of something, even though that's probably necessarily a bad way to look at it. But like, I was just, I felt included, I felt involved, and that was just such a cool thing. And then, you know, as I got older and then after my dad passed, I started kind of participating, I guess, in deer camp with my wife's side of the family. She comes from an outdoors family as well. Her dad, her 2 brothers, her uncles, they all hunt. And they have a nice cabin that they always get together over opening day of rifle season. There's usually probably 7 to 8 of us, maybe 9, depending on the year. And yeah, that deer camp is funny because there's, you know, the younger generation. So like me and my brother-in-laws, and then another Uh, one of the guys, his son comes along who's around the same age, and we're always the ones going to bed early, getting up and getting out into the woods, and they're always the ones giving us a hard time staying up late and playing cards and having some drinks and things like that. But it's just, uh, it's just something that we look forward to every year, and it's something that, you know, God willing, that I'll be able to, to pass along to my kids, you know, when they get of age.

Yeah, no, I totally agree with all of that. Um, Culturally and as a society, we don't seem to have a lot of rites of passage anymore, especially as men. And so, I've kind of thought of deer camp, at least for my own kids, my own sons anyway, is kind of that rite of passage. And so, typically, so our camp is, it's my dad and my brothers and our sons that come in. So, you know, there's like 3 generations. Occasionally, we'll have some friends that'll come in and join us too. And so, the minimum age we've kind of set is 5. And so, it's because once you're at that age. And not all of them, not all the nieces and nephews and kids are quite responsible or quiet enough to come at that age. But usually it's like they gotta be at least 5. It's like, you know, they'll come and hang out and climb trees and run around and play and you keep them safe when hunting and stuff and, you know, sit in the blind or in the stand and just get them used to it. So I kind of see this as something of a rite of passage to an extent as far as going out into the field and kind of the whole hunter-gatherer thing and bringing home the meat. Do you feel that That was instrumental as far as for you growing up?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, you kind of talked about it with, with the rite of passage, and, you know, it's, it's— I think it's, you know, once I had kids, I realized like how, like you just mentioned, how instrumental that really was when I was growing up and, and how much I loved it and not really realizing it at the time. But as you get older, you know, like this past year My daughter was 4, and I just brought her with— there was this— it was during archery season, but, uh, there was, um, like a, uh, not a pop-up but an elevated tree blind or tree stand, uh, elevated blind, there we go, that we had. So I, uh, found this old recurve bow that I think my wife had when she was a kid. I mean, the thing's probably like 2 and a half feet long. It's tiny, right?

Yeah.

Um, but I was like, all right, Zoe, you know, we're gonna go hunting today and we're gonna go sit in the blind and we're gonna look for deer and all this. And I mean, she was just ecstatic. I mean, she absolutely loved— I mean, we lasted, I think, a half hour, you know, before the snacks ran out and she wanted to then turn around and, you know, because we hadn't seen anything and she was like, oh well, I want to get down and go look for them. And I'm like, well, that's not exactly, you know, how we're, how we're trying to do this today. But, uh, it was just, it was a great experience. I mean, she was so excited to be out there And, you know, I really hope that when she gets a little bit older— and that, well, one, I hope that we can continue to do that every year. And maybe, you know, the older she gets, the longer she'll be able to make it. Or at some point, we'll be able to both get up into, like, you know, a proper tree stand, uh, and whatnot. And, you know, and then when she gets old enough, I, I really hope that she, you know, looks back and has the same fond memories of it that I do.

Yeah, totally agree with that. It's, it's interesting how over the years how we grow and evolve, um, while hunting and spending time with family and friends and And just seeing some of those experiences and telling those stories over the years. Last year, my son, who, he's 14, and he got his first deer. And so that was, as a father, you know, I was right next to him when he shot it. And that was an amazing experience just to see him harvest his first little buck. And while the deer was a little bit smaller than I would have preferred that he took, I mean, at the same time, you're super happy just because, hey, your son just got his first deer. He busted his cherry, you know. And then the prior year before that, my dad got his first deer. So he had hunted a little bit, mainly squirrels and rabbits and things as a kid, but had not ever really deer hunted. So he's been coming out to camp and then got his first one. And so I was able to help him to do that as well. And so it's just kind of this weird dichotomy of helping your father and then helping your son because I've been hunting longer than, than them and everything. So it was really an interesting experience.

Yeah, no, that's cool to be able to because, you know, you're right. Normally it's you're passing that down or you're experiencing that with your kids or generations, you know, after you. But to be able to experience that with your dad and, you know, him knowing, you know, how much you love the outdoors and then being able to be there with him to harvest that first animal, I mean, that's, that's something not a lot of people, you know, probably ever get to experience because usually it's, you know, your dad was with you, you were with your son, and, and so on and so forth. So to be able to kind of have that, you know, kind of both ways in terms of the generational side of things is, uh, is really cool, man. And, and that's probably You know, one of those experiences that all of you will be able to cherish, you know, forever.

Oh yeah, be telling stories around the fire about it while drinking Jäger for sure.

There you go.

Marcus, why is nature and the outdoors so important to you?

Well, you know, I think it's, it, it's so important because there's, there's so much that you can learn from the outdoors or while being outdoors. Um, I think it allows you to realize that you're That that we as humans are just a very small part in this huge ecosystem, right? And you know, it kind of gives you perspective really. And I think the fact that you know we're able to to harvest our own you know meat or fish and have that appreciation for the wildlife and and knowing actually where your food come from food comes from excuse me is something that. Unless, you know, you're participating in hunting or fishing or something like that that takes from the land, it's, it's really kind of hard to explain. And it has given me just, you know, such a, a greater appreciation for, you know, all the little things in nature and, you know, how the, the actions that we have and the things that we do have this huge ripple effect on down the line on, you know, species and, you know, habitat and things like that, that at the time we, we maybe don't even realize. So I've certainly become much more cognizant of, you know, how my actions, uh, when I'm outdoors affect those things around it.

Yeah, totally. How do you think we can live more harmoniously with nature? Because it seems like in so many instances where the attitude is us against nature as opposed to us with nature, it's like either humans have to survive and thrive or nature and the natural environment does. And it seems like there's so much pushback is like we can't coexist. But I mean, The fact is we're all in this together. And so how do we live in a more harmonious balance there?

Oh, that's a really good question. You know, certainly we, we have to do that. And I think it's, it's having conversations, you know, with, with other individuals. It's trying to lessen kind of our footprint on the environment and the outdoors as much as possible. You know, so whether that's, you know, A great example is, you know, just picking up trash, you know, kind of in your local game area. If you're going to be out there and using that land, you know, making sure that you're leaving it, you know, in as good of, if not better condition than when you first stepped out there. And, you know, I think kind of in a bigger scale of things, you know, when you look at like urban sprawl and things like that, I mean, I don't, I don't know how you combat that. I don't know how you, you slow that down, but I think in the process of it, we have to be, you know, much more aware of the effects that we're having on the areas that are now being developed. And, you know, there's probably people out there that, that have a lot better answers or a lot better ideas, but I think we certainly need to be a lot more aware of, um, you know, what it is that we're potentially ruining when we put up a new development What that's going to do to the wildlife, you know, how they are going to adjust, where they're going to move to. Is there areas for them to relocate to? You know, if not, you know, that could potentially, you know, kill off an entire population in a, you know, a very small area that has otherwise likely been thriving for, you know, a long time.

Yeah, no, that's a great point. There are a lot of threats to conservation today right now. And 2 of the big ones that I see, urban sprawl, like you mentioned, but it seems like, and whether conservation or just the environment in general, and it seems like protecting our waterways and our soil are 2 very important ones. And I think a lot of it comes down to, as far as protecting these, personal responsibility. How many people are just constantly littering, you know, throwing stuff in the water or if they're out on a boat or, you know, at the lake or stream or whatever, or they're driving down the street and they'll just throw something out the window. Whether it's a candy bar wrapper or a napkin or whatever. And, and so, you know, there's obviously a lot of other things going on as far as big companies and pollution and, you know, how they're being environmentally responsible or irresponsible. But on a micro level, the only thing we can do is change ourselves, no one else, you know.

Right.

That personal responsibility comes into play. So do you have any ideas here as far as how we can educate people to better, to think long-term and as far as their actions right now, how that's going to affect things long-term?

Yeah, so I think it all starts with, you know, with conversations like this and trying to help spread, you know, awareness and the message of, you know, how every little person, you know, doing their part can hopefully and potentially have this kind of ripple and profound effect on those around you. I think we talked about it when you were on my podcast and you talked about, you know, trying to create this groundswell. Right? And it's funny that I've used that term a few times since, uh, since you and I recorded, but it's absolutely true that, you know, I think when, when you look at like personal responsibility, you have to have accountability. And I think that's what everyone needs to have is accountability. And, you know, I realize if you're driving down the road and the car ahead of you throws something out the window, you know, you're not gonna, you know, speed up and try and, you know, get the guy to pull over and be like, hey, you know, what the heck were you doing? That kind of thing. Because, you know, then you're just being a bit reckless. But good way to get caught. Yeah, exactly. It's— yeah, it's a good way to find yourself, uh, in trouble. But, you know, we need to, you know, have conversations with our kids, you know, explain to them the importance of, you know, not throwing trash on the ground, you know, you know, why mom or dad is picking up, you know, wrappers or something that they see in the parking lot at the grocery store or, you know, on the sidewalk when they're walking down the street or something like that. And I think it's our responsibility as adults, as parents, to make sure that, you know, the generation behind us knows the value and the importance of the wildlife and how, you know, I, I think back to when I was a kid and like the little rings that come around like a 6-pack, right?

Like, oh yeah, yeah.

How, how those are always gonna, you know, when they go to the garbage, you know, somehow in some way they're gonna end up in the water and they're gonna end up around like a duck's neck or, you know, something like that. So I remember like even still to this day, like if I happen to buy a 6-pack of something that has those little plastic rings, like I'm always cutting them up so that it's like confetti so that it, you know, I hope that it doesn't have—

Chance of that.

Yeah, exactly. So I think it's having the conversations and, you know, trying as best as possible and as safe as possible, hold other people accountable for the, you know, kind of the same standard of the way you should treat things.

Yeah. And I think that groundswell and that, that information is getting spread out more and more people are learning and changing. Uh, it's just wild to me. So even if I'm out on my, my own property, um, you know, it's a very rural area of Kentucky. Um, but finding old appliances like an old washing machine or dryer or something like that, that someone has just left in like a sinkhole and that was how they just got rid of things, you know?

Yeah.

Um, and just pick even like the stream that flows past after a big storm where, uh, maybe the water's overflowed its banks. Um, and I'll just go with the trash bag down there and just pick up trash like all day because stuff is coming from way upstream. People either just left stuff laying around and the water washed it downstream or they just threw it in the water, whatever. So it's incredibly frustrating because there's so much that we can still do. And, but I hope that we are making a positive change. And so people are learning and doing less and less of that.

Yeah. You know, it's funny. So we hunt, uh, or I hunt, you know, primarily private land here in Michigan as well. We bought the property about three years ago now, and you know we're still you know when we're walking the property, I mean it because it's it's about 140 acres or so, so it's a it's a decent chunk of land. And but I mean we're still finding you know trash, and I mean gosh the first year that we were out there we found so much garbage, and you know the previous owner had owned it for 15 years, and a lot of the stuff that we were finding, if I had to guess, had probably been there. You know, since before he owned it.

Yeah.

And he never bothered to do anything with it or take the time to clean it up. So, you know, every spring, especially when a lot of things kind of tend to become unearthed, you know, more so than not, or before everything grows out and is hidden again, you know, my brother-in-law and I spend a lot of time, you know, early spring while we're shed hunting, but, you know, picking up a lot of trash and bottles. I mean, we found, you know, old chairs, just all sorts of things out there.

Yeah.

And, you know, hopefully Year by year, we're able to take more and more off. And then, you know, if at some point we decide to get rid of the land, you know, the people coming into it don't have to worry about, you know, all the trash or anything like that that was out there, you know, before we got it.

Yeah, exactly. I saw a while back there was, I think it was a Kickstarter campaign for this company. They were creating these reusable bags mainly for like if you're on the water, like at the beach or somewhere where it had like perforated holes at the bottom. So you could go and just pick up trash on the beach and it was reusable. So instead of just using like a plastic bag that's gonna go in the trash, It was like this, I can't remember the material, but like a reusable bag so you could go up and down and clean up. So I'm wondering if there might be an opportunity here just from the business side of things, and this is where my head always goes business-wise, you know, potentially for, for you and for the average conservationist to create a new type of bag that's more for the outdoors and not necessarily near water, but maybe near streams or in the woods or something like that, where you can pick up cans and Styrofoam and, you know, plastic bottles and glass bottles and all that stuff.

That's actually, Seth, a fantastic idea. I mean, you could almost call it like, you know, like a, a game trash bag kind of thing, right? Because, yeah, you know, so many people anymore, uh, you know, they want— when they're buying game bags for, for doing like western-style hunts, you know, they want to be able to reuse them. They don't want to have to, you know, throw them away. But a lot of these anymore are washable, um, you know, anything like that. So no, I think that that's a great idea because especially if you're around, you know, any type of waterway, I mean, that stuff's always like soggy And, you know, potentially waterlogged. And so if you can have something that, you know, you can throw, you know, whether it's, you know, a beer can that's half full of water or, you know, some type of wrapper or something that's just soaked, you know, you can throw it in there. And as you're continuing to walk around, you know, let the water kind of drain out, get home, you know, run the hose through it and, you know, away you go. You're good for next time. Yeah, that's, that's a great idea.

We could talk about that more offline, maybe come up with a collaborative, uh, collaborative project here. I think that could be fun and help. Yeah, absolutely help a lot of people in nature as well. So that would— yeah. Marcus, what's the biggest life lesson that nature and the outdoors has taught you over the years?

So I'm not— I can't remember if you had asked me this before, but it's kind of a— I have kind of 2 answers to that question, and it's almost going to sound like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but The first one is that, you know, life is short because, you know, when you think about it and you're out in the woods, you know, and, and you're hunting, you know, that, that animal, uh, has no idea if you, if you, you know, if you're going to take a buck or a doe or, or whatever, you know, that, that animal has no idea that its life's about to end, right? And, and the act that you're doing is in killing an animal. I mean, that's, that's a heavy thing, you know, no matter how many times you do it, it's always Uh, you always kind of have that moment after you pull the trigger of, you know, what you just did and, you know, the ramifications of that. So I think like in that sense, like life is, life is short, you know. And for me, you know, that goes way beyond just, you know, the hunting, you know. Like when I found out my dad was sick, you know, I, I, I flashed back to all this time that I got to spend with him and then started thinking about the future. And it was like You know, like how much longer am I going to be able to do this with this with him again?

Sure.

You know, so all these things. So, you know, taking advantage of you know all the time that you can spend with friends and family outdoors, whether it's hunting, backpacking, you know, just going for walks, bird watching, whatever it is. You know, if that's something that you and your friends or your family, you know, really enjoy doing together, you know, I I can't stress enough how important it is to you know make those plans. You know, just say yes to when someone asks you to do something like that because you don't know when you're going to be able to. To do those things with them again.

Yeah, totally.

And then, yeah, and then kind of on the flip side, and like I said, talking out of both sides of my mouth, is, you know, just slow down a little bit with life. Because while you're out there, you know, that's kind of one of the things I love about it is, you know, the phone goes in the pocket, you know, for the most part. You know, sometimes things are slow out there.

Yep.

But, you know, like, just enjoy where you're at, you know, enjoy, you know, Mother Nature. Enjoy what you're doing, you know, being able to see some really cool things, you know, when you're out in the tree stand, when you're out fishing, uh, whatever it is, you know, just watching and appreciating nature kind of do its thing can be really, really cool. And if you just— if you pay attention while you're out there, the things that you see are incredible, right? And that's kind of what I, uh, would say is, is important, or my, my 2 cents, I guess.

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I Part of what you're talking about here is the joy is in the journey. It's not necessarily just in the destination, although, you know, our goal is to harvest an animal, but it's just in the expectation and the anticipation and just enjoying it while we're there. And so one of the things that came to mind when you were talking about this was, you know, like the night before deer camp starts or the night before opening morning. So we'll usually get out there on a Friday and opening morning is on a Saturday. And the Friday is my favorite part because it's this Expectation. It's almost like Christmas, you know, it's the night before Christmas and it's like, who knows what's gonna happen? We might see a big one, we might see nothing, but it's just like this joyful, childlike expectation and anticipation of what might be. And I've used this analogy before that to me, hunting is kind of like dating, like going out to a bar, because you never know what you're gonna find. You're gonna go out and have fun and, you know, you might run into someone. meet someone who's amazing. Maybe nothing. Maybe it'll be a terrible night.

Maybe it'll be a great night.

But you don't know. But it's that unexpected, the unknown that makes it so much fun, you know, and just sitting in the stand and whether it's just hearing all those squirrels that are the loudest things in the woods going by, you think it's like a 20-point buck, or, or, you know, maybe seeing a bobcat run by, or, or who knows, maybe it's just like a woodpecker. But just seeing nature come alive and in all its amazing glory. And I think it really helps us to just enjoy life and what we've been given.

Yeah, that's, uh, the, the Christmas morning analogies is, is a really good one because I'm never more optimistic than walking to my stand that opening day, you know, whether it's archery season or rifle season, whatever it is. Like, I'm always in my mind, I'm gonna see a ton of deer, I'm gonna have to choose which one I want to shoot because there's going to be so many nice bucks out there, or You know, mature does or whatever the case. And then usually takes, I don't know, maybe an hour before my expectations kind of come back to reality and things like that. But yeah, you never know what you're going to get, and every time that you go out is different, you know. I mean, it's, it's funny with the, the excitement level that you talked about in that, in that night before and leading up. I mean, you know, with Christmas as a kid, like you said, you get that excitement and you can't wait to see what's under the tree and open those presents. And then, you know, as you get older and you become an adult, you know that you enjoy watching your kids have that excitement, right? And it's almost like the same with hunting, right? You get to a certain point with hunting, and while I still get super excited, you know, like being able to like see other people get excited about it is, is almost more enjoyable to me than, you know, my own success out there.

Yeah, totally. I have experienced that for sure. And I think the flip side of all this is that after you have harvested a deer, after you pull the trigger or let that arrow go, And it goes down, it's almost like there's a little bit of a letdown because, you know, you've just done the thing, but it's that anticipation, that expectation. So when it actually happens, then it's like, oh, now what? Because you don't, you're not looking forward to it anymore. Kind of like after you've unwrapped the presents and it's like, there's no longer that anticipation. And so it's this weird dichotomy and just enjoying the moment, I think.

Yeah. And you made the point a few minutes ago there with it's more about the journey than the destination. And I heard someone say on a podcast or, or somewhere before that, you know, when it comes to like watching content or listening to podcasts, like I'm way more about the lead-up, the building, the build-up to, to whatever, you know, the, the end result, the end result is. So if it's, you know, you shot a really nice buck or an elk or something like that, I mean, I want to hear about, you know, how many miles you hiked in, you know, what the What it looked like getting to your tree stand. What was the wind doing? You know, what was you know what was the temperature? Like all these little details that I think the more time you spend outdoors and the more you start to appreciate the journey, like you said, the more that those things become you know the things that you want to hear and the things that you really want to talk about too. Because you know everyone knows that you know you killed the deer, but you know there's there's there's way more to the story than that. I mean that's just such a small fraction of the totality of it.

Yeah, for sure, Marco. So we've talked a lot about hunting. I'd love to hear about some other outdoor activities that you really enjoy or try to, try to get out there and do more of.

Yeah, so fly fishing is a big one that I really love to do. I did quite a bit of it when I was growing up, probably in my mid and late teens, and then probably into my early years of college. Like I was saying early on, my dad was a really big outdoorsman, and he had like this obsessive personality, right? So whatever it was that he was really into, I mean, he went headfirst into. I mean, he cannonballed into it. So, you know, I can give you a couple of examples. One summer he got really into golf for whatever reason. I mean, he was an athlete growing up and everything, but he just decided, all right, I'm gonna take up golf. So, you know, he takes the lessons and he gets his clubs custom fitted and he's, you know, trying to take, you know, again, taking all these lessons and, you know, going to the driving range like 4 times a week. And, you know, when I would go out with him, he'd be like, oh, let's go to the driving range. Yeah, I'm like, I don't— I just want to go play kind of thing, right? Like, he took that approach to, to do all the little things to, to make you, you know, better at whatever that activity was. So, you know, with that and then with fly fishing When he got into that, you know, he was tying his own, you know, tying his own flies. And one winter he built his own drift boat in our garage, you know, got the blueprints and all that. And, you know, then we took, I think, 2 trips out west, one to southern Colorado and one to Montana, where, you know, we brought his drift boat out there. And, you know, we were, you know, floating down like the Missouri and some of these big rivers, and he just became like obsessed with it. And At that time, I you know fell kind of in line with him, and you know we would take again summer trips out west, usually for like a week, and we would camp somewhere kind of not completely off-grid but a little bit more remote. And you know those experiences are are some of my fondest memories of him are those types of trips. And I mean I've got a couple stories that are just. that they weren't, they weren't great stories at the time because like a bunch of things had went wrong. But in hindsight, like those are the ones that, that I really look back on and really kind of make me smile the most. Um, so yeah, fly fishing is one. Um, yeah, I recently kind of got into turkey hunting. I mean, it's still hunting.

Yeah.

Um, but it's, it's a new endeavor for me. Um, that was one of the things I never did growing up. So, uh, just this past year was kind of my first real go at it. Uh, and it was way more fun than I expected. Uh, so I'm kind of looking forward to, to next spring already.

Yeah, cool. You mentioned you had some really cool stories there. I'd like to hear more of those.

Yeah, so we were, uh, in southern Colorado. Um, I, I got 2 stories for you. One, we were in southern Colorado and, uh, we've been fishing a lot of just kind of like local public streams. And, uh, and if you're familiar Colorado there, uh, the like the mineral rights is different. So if the, if the river the water runs through your property, you own the river bottom in that particular stretch, which is, is different, you know, in every state. Like in Michigan, that's, that's not the case. So, uh, someone had told him, uh, I don't even know who it was, but that, you know, there was a ranch, a rancher maybe 5 or 10 minutes, 5 or 10 minutes from where we were camping, that, uh, you pay him like $10 and he'll let you fish his stretch of water that runs through his property. So my dad was like, oh, this will be, you know, a good opportunity. We can go out And, uh, you know, I'm not— I'm like 18 or 19 at this point, so I'm not a kid. And he's like, you know what, we're gonna go there. He's like, but I'm not gonna fish. He's like, I just want you to enjoy it. He's like, I want to take some pictures and just kind of watch you, you know, do your thing. I'm like, all right, cool, sounds good. So, you know, we start fishing and, uh, you know, it's a pretty cool little piece of water. Um, it kind of— there's some open stretches and there's some, you know, very wooded and kind of higher, you know, vantage points in certain spots. So he's like climbing around, and this is probably 2000. Yeah, so quite a while ago. So we didn't— so if there were digital cameras, we certainly didn't have one. So he had, you know, the old, you know, put a roll of film in it and all that. So he's up there, he's taking pictures, and, you know, you know, thinking he's getting some really sweet shots. And then we get to this one, this one stretch where, you know, these fish are— you can see them stacked on top of each other in this little, in this little pocket that's only probably a foot deep, but the water's just crystal clear. So I'm like casting up to him, and I think I broke off— I don't even know what fly we had, but on what fly we had on, but I think I broke off every one of them that he had in his fly box. Try— I'd get one on, you know, fight it for a minute, and then boom, it— you know, I'd do something silly with the rod and it'd snap off or spit the fly or whatever. And it was just— it was a really funny incident. I think out of the, you know, 6 or 7 that I hooked into, I landed maybe one of them. You know, it was just one of those things. And then You know, trip's over. We get back to Michigan, and he goes to develop his film, gets his camera out. No film in the camera. So he's out there taking pictures this whole time, thinking he's getting all these like Kodak moments and and no film because you know if if if you're familiar and maybe you remember like they'll still sound like they're taking pictures, right? You snap it and you kind of hit the whatever the little lever is on it to go to the next. Next piece of film. So he didn't realize it, um, you know, he just— he was hearing the noise, so he just assumed that there was film in there. Uh, so no, that one, that still makes me laugh, you know, almost 20 years later. That one is still pretty funny. And then there's another one. We were out in Montana and we were fishing just this small river, and I, uh, one of my buddies had come with me on this trip, and this was maybe 2 years after the, uh, the camera incident. And so he was like, he kind of sent me and my buddy on our way and he walked way upstream. He's like, you know, get to a certain point, stop, and I'll work my way down and we'll just meet there for lunch or whatever. Like, all right, sounds good. And, uh, we're, we're in this, this little stretch of the river that's, I, I mean, maybe 20 yards long or 20 yards wide, excuse me. And, uh, my buddy that's with me is not the most kind of, uh, athletic person. Let's say he's tall, he's a bit A bit gangly with his, uh, movements. And at this point, my dad had kind of met up with us, and him and I are on the, on the shore talking. And my buddy's out there, and, you know, he's got 30 feet of line out for, you know, a 10-foot cast or whatever, and he's whipping it back and forth and back and forth. And then next thing you know, you see him snagged on the other bank across the river.

Oh no.

You see— yeah, so you see him start to like inch out a little bit, and he's yanking on it trying to break free. And my dad and I are talking, we're not really paying attention, and I look up And I see him kind of like out in the middle of the river and he was probably like 6'2. So he was taller than my dad or I, and it was already like above his waist and the water was getting fast. And I kind of tapped my dad and I said, look at this guy, look what he's doing. And then we saw him, you know, inching his way out even further. We looked down, we looked back up again. And then all we see is like just from his head or from his neck up, just floating down the river at us. He had tripped, went in, and he was just like this big pearly grin with sunglasses and a hat just floating past us on the river.

Oh man.

Yeah. Yeah, and like I said, a lot of the, the stories that I really remember and really recall, um, were kind of like on, uh, they weren't the greatest of outcomes, let's say. But like I said, those are the ones that, that really stick out to me. It's not necessarily about the big fish that you caught, it's about, you know, all the other little things.

Yeah, the ones that are most memorable often are the ones you would never want to repeat necessarily, but they're the ones that make for the best stories. And, uh, we learn a lot from We probably learn more from our mistakes and failures than we do from our successes, I think.

Yeah, absolutely we do. Definitely.

Yeah, I've got a few of those myself. And yeah, look back on them, we'll laugh at them now, even though almost died at the time and, you know, whatnot. But yeah, but yeah, great story sitting on the fire for sure. Marcus, what outdoor gear or equipment do you consider essential?

You know, a lot of my outdoor experience has been pretty limited, I guess, in terms like geographically. Like I've done, I've done a lot of like fly fishing out west, but I've never done like any, you know, backpacking overnight type trips. But with hunting, and for me, one of the most essential pieces that I look at is my knife. You know, it just, it serves so many different purposes while you're out there. And a good knife is one of those things that, you know, you can pass down from generation to generation. You know, it's like some people, it's a watch, you know, for them that, you know, they, you know, your grandfather had this really nice watch, it was passed down to his, you know, his son, passed down to you, hopefully at some point. And that's, that's one of those things that I look at as, as kind of a, yeah, like a family heirloom, right? Like, you know, I've, I've made an investment in a knife and not a huge investment, you know, so to speak. But it's one that, you know, assuming I take care of it, that, you know, hopefully I can give it to my son when he's old enough. I mean, I have 2 knives that I carry with me in my pack that I don't ever use them. But they're knives that my dad gave to me. So it's just kind of a way to have him with me and to, you know, still keep a piece of him when I'm out in the woods. So yeah, there's, there's this like nostalgia, I guess, kind of behind knives because, you know, the stories of animals that they've helped clean, you know, or maybe situations that they've helped you get out of, or anything like that. So that's, that's one of the pieces of equipment that I kind of really Hold in value.

Yeah, no, a knife is definitely, probably definitely my favorite piece of outdoor gear that I always take with me. I always have a knife no matter where I am or what I'm doing because it's the original tool. Without a knife, I mean, you're so limited. But if you have that, then you can use that to make other tools. You know, you can whittle something down and make a spoon or, or a utensil or what have you. So it's just such a vital piece of equipment, I feel like. And that's why for Rewild Gear, the first product that we're coming out with is our Gasper 4 knife, which is going to be— it's— we're taking preorders for it right now.

Yeah, I was actually looking at the website when I saw that you guys were taking preorders and was taking a look at it. And that's— I like how there's 2 options for the colors on the handles as well. I think those, those look really sharp. I really like those.

Yeah, and we'll probably have some other colors down the road too. We wanted to kind of start off with like the gray, which is kind of the most ubiquitous that most people will go for, and then that kind of the orange. So if you want something that's a little bit more visible for hunting and things like that.

Yeah, because I don't know how many times I mean, it happened to me a few years ago. We were out doing some work in the summertime, prepping and everything like that. And, you know, I carry just a regular pocket knife on me wherever I go, right?

Yep.

And we were maybe using like a brush hog, making a food plot or something like that. And I set it on the side of the ATV and forgot about it, drove off. And of course, it had a green handle. And to try to find a green-handled knife in the middle of summer I've never seen it again, and I was so bummed about that. So I've definitely become, uh, a lot more, uh, aware of what I'm doing with that thing.

Yeah, for sure. High visibility can be important, especially— yeah, chance of losing it for sure.

Yeah.

Marcus, um, what outdoor brands do you think are doing a great job of either their product quality and their conservation efforts?

Yeah, so there's a few that, uh, I really like. you know, both those aspects that you just, that you just mentioned there. Uh, first one is, is Stone Glacier. And, you know, for the people listening, they're, they're probably, you know, fairly familiar with Stone Glacier. Uh, started off, you know, making backpacks, uh, have since, uh, transitioned into offering a lot more. You know, they make a lot of like base layers and mid layers, outer layers and stuff like that for— it's more geared towards the western hunter. Um, but the, the quality of their stuff is just top-notch and You know, it's another 2% certified brand, so they're doing great, a ton of great work for conservation. And it's, I, you know, I've got 2 of their packs. I've got a day pack that I use, you know, when whitetail hunting, and then I have, uh, you know, one of their bigger packs that while I haven't done any like western style trips with, um, it, it definitely helps like during the, the early season when you're lugging a lot of stuff around and things like that. And I've kind of beat them up quite a bit, uh, in just the short time that I've had them, uh, but they've been Awesome. And then from a gear, like the camo side of things, First Light is another one. I was first introduced to them probably 5 or 6 years ago, I would say, kind of when merino base layers had kind of become the new hot thing at the time. So I had like picked up a couple of those. And then, you know, as I just kind of progressed, like I swapped out a lot of my old camo for a lot of theirs. I really liked the pattern. And then, you know, the, the more you kind of become invested in the brand and you start to learn about it, you know, they're doing a tremendous amount of work for conservation. I mean, right now they, uh, they launched a new camo pattern, uh, kind of specifically for a whitetail hunter.

Yeah, the Spectre, I think.

The Spectre, yeah. And they're partnering with the National Deer Association. So, you know, portions of, uh, the profits from that particular camo brand are being donated back to the National Deer Association.

Yeah.

Um, you know, and that's just one of the things that they do. I mean, It's really cool. I mean, every time you, you purchase something from their website, you have the, the option and the ability to, to round up, um, your purchase or, you know, donate a set amount to an organization, a conservation organization, um, that they have kind of, you know, laid out, uh, on their checkout screen there. So they're trying their best that with every purchase to, you know, donate something back to conservation. It might be 50 cents, it might be $5, you know, whatever that individual decides to You know, give back. But, you know, not only that, just, you know, what they're giving back just as a brand itself is awesome. And, you know, it's another one of the things that for me, the quality has been great. I haven't had any issues with it. So those are probably the two that I really like to use.

Gotcha.

Do you—

are there any conservation organizations that you feel like are just doing a phenomenal job of helping to improve wildlife and natural resources and all of that?

Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a ton of, of awesome organizations. Uh, I don't know that, that we have time for me to name all of them, but, um, the National Deer Association is great. Uh, you know, a lot of work with CWD being, uh, very prominent over the last probably 5 years, I would say. Um, they've done a really good job of research and, you know, setting up, you know, like drop sites and things like that where deer can get— where people can drop deer off to get tested. You know, trying to stay ahead of that and on top of that as much as possible. And then, you know, keeping people in those states that are affected as informed as possible, you know, what they should do when they harvest an animal, what they should do when they come across what they think could potentially be an animal with CWD. And, you know, what they're doing just for, you know, the whitetail species in general is just awesome. And to see them, you know, the QDMA and the, you know, National Deer Alliance merge to join kind of this this conglomerate or this superpower of, you know, whitetail conservation has been awesome. And, you know, I've had a chance to have some conversations with some people at the NDA. I'm actually right now I have a like collaboration shirt that I'm doing with the Michigan chapter of NDA to try to help raise some money for the local chapter here in Michigan. Yeah, that's, that's probably one that I would say is doing a really great job.

Yeah, good. And for those who don't know, CWD is chronic wasting disease. Marcus, you wanna explain a little bit more what that is?

Yeah, it's, uh, I don't know all the— I mean, I'm not a scientist or a biologist, so I'll try to kind of break it down. But it's, um, yeah, it's a disease that, you know, there's not really any known cure for that just kind of, uh, you're gonna have to correct me if I'm wrong here, Seth, but kind of eats away at the, like, the central nervous system, I believe, of the deer. And I mean, you'll see deer that are just— yeah, that they'll If you happen to notice one, you know, in the wild, if you're out deer hunting, it just— the, the, the patterns, the behaviors of the deer are, are very weird. Um, and it is transmitted, I believe, just through maybe like saliva of the deer. Does that sound right?

I'm not sure on that one.

Yeah, I know it's— it transmits fairly easy because I believe they've also found it, uh, in like elk and some other animals, uh, in some of the western states. So it's something that, that spreads very easily. And like I said, there's, there's not a, like a cure for it, so to speak. So it's, it's one of those things that, you know, can really wipe out an entire deer population in an area if you're not able to get the, the infected deer, you know, out of the population.

And correct me, I could be wrong on this, but isn't it also transmitted via like a small midge or something that is in the water that they drink? Or am I thinking of blue tongue?

I'm not sure, to be honest.

Okay. Yeah, I could be, could be off on that. I'm not sure. Marcus, talk to us a little bit about The Average Conservationist, a little bit more as far as what you guys do, about the podcast and about what you sell and, and all of that.

Yeah, absolutely. So as I mentioned earlier, we sell hats, t-shirts, and sweatshirts. And really what I tried to do with the designs is I tried to kind of make them depict or reflect a lot of the things that kind of selfishly I really like to do in the outdoors. I mean, I have, uh, you know, a whitetail tee, I have a turkey tee, I have a fly fishing tee, I've got a tee that kind of represents like camping, kind of an outdoorsy, uh, type mountain scene. Um, and what I really wanted with the apparel is it's kind of give it like this vintage feel to it. You know, I like the— all the materials are, are super soft, so, you know, fresh out of the package. Like, it kind of feels like one of those shirts that you've been wearing for, you know, 3 or 4 years that's been through, you know, umpteen hundred wash cycles or anything like that. So, and then, you know, like the graphics are, it's a water-based ink that is on there. So, you know, there's not really like a feel for it. So like when you rub your hand over it, you know, it just kind of feels like the shirt the whole time. You don't actually notice.

Yeah.

The design. And then they're a bit, I don't wanna say form-fitting, like they're like a tight t-shirt or something like that, but They're not like some of the boxy type shirts that you see maybe at some of the big box stores or that a lot of people will use for giveaways and things like that. And the hats, I've always had a thing for hats. I mean, I have more hats than I care to admit, to be honest. I mean, I have 7 or 8 of my own, and then I have probably 2 dozen hats from other various brands and companies and things like that. You know, the goal really when I started was to help raise money for conservation. You know, there's umpteen hundred or thousand, you know, t-shirt brands out there or apparel brands out there. But when I started, I knew that my kind of my target audience was going to be outdoorsmen, outdoorswomen, people that were spending a lot of time out there. And if I was going to be, you know, selling them or they were going to be buying something from me, if— and knowing that those people are likely, you know, Outdoor recreationist to some degree, it kind of felt like the the right thing to do to make sure that I was giving back to to organizations that are helping protect you know things that people like to pursue. You know again like with the whitetail, with the I have an elk tee. You know it just it felt like the right thing to do and it was a way to kind of put my money where my mouth was, I guess. And you know the name the average conservationist. It kind of reflected where I was at, you know, in my outdoor pursuit, in my outdoor journey, I guess. You know, at the time, you know, while I had just been let go, like, you know, I was working, you know, 50 hours a week or so. And, you know, whatever free time I had, I was trying to, to spend it outdoors in some way, shape, or form. And if you look at all of these amazing conservation organizations that are, you know, 10, 20, 30,000 members strong, I mean, all those members are likely people like, you know, like you and I that, you know, have day jobs that, you know, are, are going kind of above and beyond just buying their tags to, you know, support conservation. And those are the people that I really wanted to celebrate. And I kind of just consider them, you know, average conservationists, right? You know, and that's— I realized that the— it's kind of a long name. It's kind of wordy, especially if you're going to like type it into Google or something like that. Yeah. But, uh, it just— it felt really fitting. Um, so I went with that. And then like with the podcast, um, I was approached, uh, on that about a year and a half ago. It was probably maybe January of 2020, um, by Dan Johnson, who hosts the Nine Finger Chronicles podcast, who, uh, owns Sportsman's Nation, which is actually, uh, who hosts the Average Conservationist podcast. And I was a guest on his podcast, uh, you know, talking about the brand and everything. And he had asked if I wanted to, you know, if I'd ever thought about having a podcast or starting a podcast or anything like that. And, you know, I was kind of, no, I had not. You know, it was just not something that I really wanted to do. Uh, there was so many podcasts out there. There is so many out there. Um, and, you know, conservation isn't this super kind of sexy topic, right? A lot of people, you know, while they, they see the value and the importance of it, you know, they're not trying to, you know, tune in every week for You know, an hour to listen to people talk about it, which you know is kind of sad. But you know, I also understand you know what kind of drives people and gear and tactics and you know stories and things like that. I mean, I understand that. I listen to a lot of those podcasts as well. But you know, he said it's it's become such an important issue. You know, I really think you should consider it. And then throughout the time of me kind of thinking about it, I guess he became a member on the board of directors for two percent for conservation. And reapproached me was like, hey, you know what if you know maybe you we we did this this podcast and we partnered with two percent. You know he's like I can set up a call with myself and you and Jared Fraser, the executive director of two percent, and we can you know just kind of spitball some ideas, talk about things, and see if you know there's something there if we can all get on the same page. And you know we sat down and you know you've talked to Jared before. I mean you know how oh yeah. You know how passionate he is about things, and for sure, you know I just yeah. So I found myself just kind of agreeing along, agreeing along, and the next thing I knew was like yeah, we're going to do this podcast. So that was probably February of last year, and we kind of set the timeline, and the the idea and the goal behind it was really to to highlight businesses and individuals that are not only two percent certified but have done some really cool things in the world of conservation, and we wanted to. To help tell those stories because a lot of these people are average people again, just like you and I, that have done some really cool things that, you know, we felt, you know, a much larger audience needed to hear about. So we launched it beginning of June of 2020. So we are about 65 episodes in at this point. And yeah, it's been incredible. The stories that you get to hear, you know, not only about the work that people are doing for conservation, whether it's you know, individually, whether it's with the brand or the company that they work for. But, you know, really hearing their story, you know, how they got introduced to the outdoors, you know, why conservation is important to them, why they decided, um, to put an emphasis, you know, whether personal or from a business standpoint, onto, you know, on conservation. And it's, you know, every week I'm just kind of blown away by the cool stories that people have. I mean, you know, you're a great example that, you know, you didn't start hunting until later on. You know, in your life, and then now it's it's kind of developed into you know deer camp with your son, with your dad, and being able to experience those. I mean, those are super cool stories that you know other otherwise people wouldn't get to hear. And then you know with Rewild Gear, and you know why you guys started it, and you know the love that you and your brothers have for the outdoors, and wanting to you know make changes and help conservation, you know through you know that avenue. I mean, it's just super cool, and I think. You know, in this day and age when it seems like everything is so doom and gloom all the time and you turn on the news and all you're hearing is negativity, you know, to have these nothing but positive stories and stuff like from a week-to-week basis for me, like, has been, you know, very motivational and very inspiring, really.

Yeah. No, that's— those are all great points. Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah.

Marcus, is there a book or books that have impacted your life in a major way?

You know, so there's one that I'm just about through with. And I'm not a huge reader. I kind of go in spurts where I'll read 3 or 4 books at a time, and then I won't for you know 6 months or something like that. But I'm reading one right now called *The Comfort Crisis*, and it really just talks about kind of challenging yourself both physically, mentally, you know stepping outside of your comfort zone, and just how you know just like the positive impacts and effects that that'll have on you both mentally and physically, and really what that kind of does for your overall well-being. And it's, it's really been kind of eye-opening for me. Yeah, I mean, I've done a, you know, I've played sports my entire life, so I feel like I've, from a physical standpoint, I've pushed my body in a lot of ways. Um, but then there's also a lot of things from a physical standpoint that I haven't really done. I mean, you know, all the sports I played were never, you know, real high endurance sports or anything like that. I mean, football, baseball, basketball. I mean, basketball maybe more so, but it's, it's different than like You know, if you're like a marathon runner or an ultra marathon runner, right? Like, they're 2 totally different things. And so, like, throughout the course of it, like, I signed up for my first 10-mile race. I have that actually, uh, in a week. Yeah, just over a week from now.

Oh, wow.

Um, so I'm kind of— yeah, so I'm kind of excited to, you know, just— and I— and, you know, if people listening are like, oh, 10 miles, like, that's not, you know, that's not very far, like, it isn't, but for me it is, you know? So it's, it's a way— It is if you've never done it. Exactly. Which I think the most I've ever ran, and this was, you know, 10, 15, you know, 10 years ago at least, was like 6 miles. Um, so, you know, I'm— it's, it's been a, a cool journey, like, from where I started when I started training for it to where I'm at now. And, you know, I'm just looking to see, you know, how my body reacts and, you know, mentally how I can kind of— when I get to, you know, mile 6 or 7 or 8 or whatever in my, you know, and I just want to like quit and walk or whatever, you know, like how I can just managed to, you know, just push through and just realize, you know, it's, you know, the pain is kind of a temporary thing. You know, I'm not, I'm not gonna die from it or anything like that, right? But it's gonna, you know, certainly challenge me, you know, more than, than a lot of things that I've done recently.

Yeah, the comfort crisis. I'm gonna have to add that to the show notes. I interviewed Randy Newberg a while back, and that was one of the things that he said that was so important, was getting comfortable with being uncomfortable and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. So I think that really resonates with Yeah.

Um, in the previous job that I had, my buddy had sent me, uh, an email, and I don't even know if it was like, uh, just like a, a picture or whatever, but it had, uh, it showed like a mountain climber, like kind of climbing into the unknown, so to speak. And, uh, it said, you know, life begins when you step outside your comfort zone, right? And, and I, I literally, I, I printed that off, I cut a little picture and the quote out, and I like Pinned it in my little cubicle there. And it's just one of those things that, that, that's really stuck with me. And yeah, get comfortable being uncomfortable because that's, that's where you learn the most about yourself.

So true. So true. Marcus, do you have a favorite podcast other than your own?

Oh, so there's a few. So there's one, it's called the Cleared Hot Podcast. Um, and I, you know, it's, it's a podcast about a lot. It doesn't even have like a specific focus. Um, so the host of the podcast, uh, is a former Navy SEAL, but that's just kind of one of the things he's done. He, he's done a lot of really cool things. Uh, at one point he held the world record for like, um, wingsuit diving.

Oh wow.

Um, base jumping. Yeah, he's just done a lot of cool things over here over his career. Uh, he started a podcast and he gets a lot of really cool people on there from, you know, like former Special Forces guys. Uh, he's, he He at one point he worked for CrossFit, like CrossFit proper, the actual company and brand. And he's like recently gotten into like jiu-jitsu, and which I'm not really a jiu-jitsu guy at all, but like just to hear other people's stories. And you know, every week is someone different from all different walks of life. You know, he's— what I realized with him is he just, he's just interested in like, you know, interesting people, good stories, kind of regardless of of what their background is. So that's one that I've really— I listen to, you know, really on a weekly basis. Yeah, cool.

Super.

Yeah.

Marcus, what's one final piece of advice that you could give to our audience?

Yeah, I would say, you know, speaking really in terms of conservation is just get involved. Just get out there. You know, so many people are kind of, you know, wondering what they should do or how they can get involved. And, you know, really my best piece of advice is is just kind of take that first step, take that leap. You know, join a local organization, you know, participate in some type of volunteer event, and you're going to meet some incredible people. You know, a lot of like-minded people or people from different backgrounds, and you're going to learn a ton from each other. And it's going to really kind of help keep you motivated and really want to make you just be better when it comes to the outdoors and getting involved and doing your part. And that's, that's really kind of all I can say is just, just get involved. Just whatever it is, you know, it could be something on your own. I mean, maybe just go out to your local trailhead or, or watershed system and just pick up trash or, you know, whatever it is. Just, just get involved.

Yeah, that's great advice. Marcus, this has been a lot of fun. Really enjoyed chatting with you today. Where can people learn more about you online?

Yeah, so the website is theaverageconservationist.com. And you can find me on Instagram, just @theaverageconservationist, Facebook, The Average Conservationist. And if you've got any questions about like sizing, you know, maybe where money is being donated to with some purchases that you're making, whatever the case is, reach out. I'm always pretty prompt on responding to people. So yeah, and I love the interaction and kind of hearing people's stories. through Instagram and Facebook with messages that I've got. So yeah, don't be afraid to reach out.

Super. Marcus, thanks so much for your time today. Really appreciate it, and we'll talk again soon.

All right, thanks, Seth. Take care. Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You can check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high-quality Our high-quality, minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.