Ep 25: Montana Backpacking Trip Recap

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild. Welcome to the Adventure Welcome to the Self Made Podcast. I'm your host, Seth Spears, and I'm here today with co-founders of Rewild Gear, Adam Spears, David Spears, and our photographer, Patrick McNamara. Unfortunately, Josh Spears is not here with us today. We are just wrapping up our company retreat, a backpacking excursion into the Montana wilderness, and we are going to chat today about our experience and what an experience it's been. Who wants to talk first?

Well, where to begin? Uh, the prepping for it, probably. The packing.

Yeah, we can start there.

You want to start talking about how we prepped? Okay, well, let's, let's just start with, um, expectations. So originally this trip was planned for May, and then it got postponed, um, to August because of a freak snowstorm. And so, um, this This backpacking trip, it's called the Wilderness Event, and it was put on and led by good friends of ours and former podcast guests Jordan Riesner and Jake Larson. And they are a wealth of knowledge and experience when it comes to the backcountry and above the tree line and below the tree line, as the case may be.

Yeah.

And we got some of both.

Yes. We spent quite a bit of time above the tree line, probably more than More than I would have preferred, but, you know, it was a great experience all around though. So I just kind of want to start with, uh, what were your guys' experiences— or excuse me, expectations going into it? Adam, you want to start?

Yeah, I think, um, I was definitely expecting more, uh, more chill time, a little bit less hiking, uh, probably a little bit lower elevation, more More in the alpine versus, versus above the tree line. I wanted to see a little more, a little bit more wildlife, I think. Or at least—

Well, you never know if you're going to—

At least, uh, make the odds greater. Uh, yeah, that being above 10,000 is a little bit of—

Yeah, because we were at, we were at 10,500, uh, a good majority. Yeah, yeah, most of the trip for 5 days out there. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, the entire time above 9,500 the entire trip.

Yes.

Yeah, until the hike down, I guess.

Yeah.

Dave, what were your expectations going into it?

Yeah, honestly, I, I tried not to have too many expectations going into it just because I really just wanted the trip to kind of, I don't know, unfold and, you know, really just not expect too much or, um, really just kind of be in the moment with it. So, you know, we were at pretty high elevation, which I thought was really cool just because it's not every day that you get to, you be at 10,000 feet. And I love, love, love mountains. So I mean, you know, tree line's great as well, and I definitely think it has its place, but I don't know, I really loved being in the, the high mountains on this trip.

Yeah.

So yeah, as far as expectations, I really— I tried not to have too many. And so, and kind of why I did that was I didn't want to think it was going to be a certain way and then really be let down of, oh, it's didn't go how I thought it would or planned. So, um, yeah, I thought it turned out really well. I was really happy with how it was.

That's a good way to be. Um, yeah, I mean, it's really easy to go into an experience like this, uh, and have expectations as far as the scenery, topography, what you're gonna do and all that. And then you get there and the weather changes, right? Or, you know, something happens.

Yeah.

So Patrick, welcome to the Adventure Made Podcast. This is your first time on the show. And so you have been friends with Adam and David for many years. Um, and so they kind of dragged you into this kicking and screaming to do some product shots and some videography work. Is that the right word? Videography?

Yeah, videography, cinematography.

Cinematography. And so you were gracious enough to come out and join us and take some amazing pictures and drone shots and footage for the website, for social media, and all kinds of stuff. So tell us, what were your expectations going into it and your thoughts after that?

Yeah, well, thanks for having me on the podcast. It's good to be here. And, you know, for me initially, you know, as you mentioned, the trip was going to be in May and I was playing around with the idea of coming and unfortunately was not going to be able to make it because my wife was due with our third son around that time.

Should have told her to keep it in longer.

So, you know, I'm glad that it was pushed back, you know, so I really had the opportunity to even really consider it. For me, I didn't have a lot of expectations. I think mostly because I've never done anything quite like this. Probably a lot of the closest experiences I've had were with Adam and David about 10 years ago when we studied abroad in Austria and we got to do some good hikes and backpack trips and things like that, but nothing near to the extent of what— this trip had in store for us. So, um, I really, yeah, didn't have really many expectations, mainly because I really couldn't picture what the trip was really going to be like. So—

You didn't get a whole lot of information beforehand, did you?

No.

I said, bring a camera, bring a drone.

I said, Pat, you're going to the mountains with us. Let's go.

Well, I mean, to paint a little picture, like, before I really gave the thumbs up, like, Adam had already bought my plane ticket.

I didn't really have a choice. No choice there. You're in, like it or not.

That's on your itinerary. Pack your bags.

Yeah, so I guess, um, thanks for that, Patrick. Um, my expectations going in, um, I don't know that I had a lot other than just being in the backcountry for an extended period of time and just completely disconnecting from technology because there's no cell phone reception. No computer, no phone, no texting, no Instagram, no Slack, none of the everyday business activities that I'm involved in. And so, just completely disconnecting, which is definitely what it was. I will say that it was physically, mentally, and emotionally a much harder trip than I was expecting and everything that I didn't know that I needed. So, just pushing ourselves physically, Hiking, what do we average? Like 6 miles a day?

Yeah, roughly.

Roughly 6 miles a day. I think we hiked over 30 miles total through some very strenuous terrain, you know, like a lot of elevation inclines and declines. And so that was very challenging, but there's a big mental aspect to it as well.

Yeah.

And the whole time, like during the hiking, I kind of had like these mantras I say to myself different times where they just kind of come up. And one of mine was like, Just right foot, left foot, you know, put one foot in front of the other. Um, that was like, that was one day. And then the other one is like, trust yourself, but listen to your body. So you can do it. That was a good balance there. But at the same time, if you feel like your knee might be about to hyperextend, maybe listen to that as well. Um, yeah. And then just mind over matter as well, you know? So there's lots of different ones there as far as just, um, you know, pushing through, 'cause a lot of it is mental as much as physical, although Um, day 4, Thursday, was that yesterday? Because we're— this is Friday night when we're recording. Um, that was a very, very challenging hike. Um, and I was as physically exhausted as I've been in a very, very long time. Um, yeah, so all in all, it was a fantastic experience.

And I think too, with, with the hiking It was rough country.

Yes.

You know, it's, it's not your average 6-mile— It's not just flat terrain.

You're walking through prairies.

You're hiking boulder fields. You're crossing rivers, streams. So it was— it wasn't just your average kind of 6-mile hike, you know. Um, so that— I don't know, your body definitely felt it with the terrain.

Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, and even just starting out, taping up our feet with Leukotape beforehand just to make sure we didn't get blisters or hot spots or anything like that.

And like, I still have tape remnants left on my feet even after a shower. Yeah, it takes a while to come off.

Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about the prep for the trip as far as gear. So this is something I know we've talked about a lot. And obviously as Rewild Gear, we love gear. And I think one of the things that came up a lot because we were packing over 50 pounds on our backs.

Yeah.

And hiking a lot. And it wasn't like we just hiked in and had a base camp and then did day hikes. We were actually moving camp. Every single morning.

Yeah.

So everything that we had with us hiking very deep into the wilderness was on our back. And when you do that, that's when you realize that ounces matter and less is often more because it gets really heavy. So I want to hear your guys' thoughts as far as what you thought you needed to bring, what you realized, hey, maybe I shouldn't have brought, and some of those things you would have changed out, you wouldn't have brought, or maybe that you would have brought instead.

Well, it's a lot.

You would not have brought the cast iron skillet, would you?

You definitely would have left that at home. Uh, the stainless pot, I would have left that, brought the titanium. The 2 water bottles, I would have left both of those and brought a single, single-walled water bottle versus 2 double-walled. Um, I did bring that extra tarp poncho. Duo thing that I kind of brought in case Pat needed it for extra warmth, which we were fine.

Yep.

Um, uh, let's see.

Your dry bags?

The dry bag. Yeah, dry bag was definitely heavier than it should have been.

So you would have brought a dry bag, but a smaller one or one that wasn't as heavy?

Yeah.

Um, how about the hat?

Definitely would have left the hat.

The Indiana Jones leather hat that looks really cool, but, uh, it wasn't practical. Weighs 3.5 pounds.

Yeah, and then the boots worked out okay that I had, but for this type of terrain and the amount of hiking we were doing, I would have gotten lighter boots for sure.

Gotcha. So that, that weight was a little, a little heavy?

Oh, absolutely.

Okay.

Yeah.

How did your feet— because what—

My feet held up good until day 4. That's when the blisters—

And what were the boots that you were wearing?

The Danner Pronghorns.

Okay, those are— that's a heavy pair of boots.

Yeah.

What are those more designed for?

More not, not steep, not mountain climbing, not mountain.

No.

Yeah, not that terrain at all.

What else?

Um, let me think. I had a pair of pants I could have left back.

Oh, you brought an extra pair of pants?

Well, I had that pair of shorts I didn't need.

Oh, okay.

Um, I could have left back a t-shirt. And you like in the big scheme of things, you're like, oh, those aren't that heavy. But like when you add all this up, zipper lighter, left it back.

Uh, there it is.

That's a good sound.

Somebody's popping a beer. So easily, no beer came in.

Yeah, I mean, I could have— I probably could have left 10 pounds back if I would have switched a few things out.

Yeah.

Got it. Dave, how about you?

I would have honestly only changed a couple things. I felt pretty good about my setup. I would have left— I brought just an extra pair of shorts, just like some swim shorts, um, which we still got in the river and stuff, but just in boxers. So I would have left the extra pair of shorts, and I brought a just like a platypus hose For my water bladder, I never use it, so I would have left that. And honestly, that's really the only 2 things I would have changed because— go ahead.

Do you know what your total pack weight was? Was yours less than everyone else's?

It was, it was until we added other stuff. Um, yeah, other like camera gear and whatnot. Um, I want to say it was— I think it was like right at 38 or something initially.

Wow.

Okay.

It was quite a bit.

That's a lot less.

Yeah, it was quite a bit. Quite a bit less. So yeah, I really wouldn't have changed much. I felt good about kind of my clothing system, felt good about my sleep system as well, which are, you know, your, your big ones. So cool. Yeah, really not many.

Patrick, how about you? This is really your first, uh, backpacking excursion deep into the wilderness, so obviously it's a little different for you carrying a lot of camera equipment and video equipment and all of that, as well as your food and gear.

Yeah, yeah. I think for me, obviously I Kind of my priority was the video equipment and, you know, what I was going to pack, what I was going to leave behind. So honestly, for me, kind of the, the hiking and outdoor gear kind of came second. Um, and thankfully I had, you know, both, uh, a couple of the Spears help pitch in with some of their equipment. And, and, um, and in the end, um, Jake also um, gave me some of his equipment that I, you know, some of my, uh, hiking gear just didn't come quite to, uh, to par with what we were needing for the week. So I was really thankful for that. Um, and then in hindsight now, you know, we've done the hike, I understand, you know, a lot of the equipment. Um, there's, you know, certain specifications. And, um, I think going into it, I was a little— just blind to the, you know, the purpose to some of this stuff. And I think from a video and photo standpoint, I think kind of like David, there's only probably a couple of things I would have left behind. The biggest hurdle that I found myself with was just the altitude and the temperature, especially with batteries and stuff like that. And The, like, the importance of keeping them warm in the middle of the night when it, you know, gets really cold. And, uh, so that was kind of my biggest struggle, was making sure that I had enough battery power to survive for 5 days in the wilderness. So, um, which in the end it all, it all worked out, but it took a little bit of creativity. And, um, but definitely, definitely the video and photo equipment added a lot of load. And luckily I had a A few of the guys help kind of even out the weight. So, but yeah, that's kind of my perspective.

Yeah. Well, so mine. So I've been on the road for like 3 weeks. So a lot of business travel. So trying to pack beforehand for a 3-week trip or being on the road for 3 weeks in very different climates and scenarios makes it very challenging. So I had all the gear and stuff that I needed. However, in hindsight, there's a lot of things that I probably would have changed. Changed. For one, my Hilleberg Nammatj tent is bombproof but very heavy. It weighs, what, 8, 8.5 pounds, I think? Yeah, that's somewhere around there. Um, super comfortable, kind of a pain in the ass to put up at times because it is a tunnel tent. I like it a lot, but I'm not going to Everest, so definitely could have cut some weight there. Probably gone with, um, one of the— instead of the Black Label, one of the Yellow or maybe Red Label. That would be one. One that I'm on the fence about is my sleeping pad. So I had the Big Agnes— Q-Core, I think. Yeah, super comfortable because I'm kind of a side sleeper or toss and turn and everything. Really comfortable and great, but it is a little heavy. So Dave, I tried out yours, your Klymit. I forget the model.

V— Static V, I think.

Yeah, Static V. And the Big Agnes is definitely more comfortable. So I'm not sure about the weight trade-off there. So that's— that would be a couple things.

You can't beat a good sleep in the mountains though.

Well, yeah, no one actually sleeps that good.

I will say I slept on yours last night. I mean, it's like sleeping on a blow-up mat.

Yeah, I don't think you woke up at all actually.

No, I don't think I did either. It was amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah, but it is heavy.

Yeah, my cookware was heavier than it should have been, but I mean, that's because I was testing out different sizing. Just as far as for future products and just stove-wise and things like that. So, I definitely could have pared that down and brought less or a different stove because I was using an MSR WhisperLite, which is great. It's a multi-fuel stove. It's great for the zombie apocalypse because you can burn anything through it. But, it's definitely a lot heavier than need be. Those would be the main ones.

What about your clothing system?

Clothing, pretty dialed in.

Yeah.

Yeah, I could have left a t-shirt back. Other than that, I don't think I would change much there. You know, there's little odds and ends here or there, like extra ferro rods and knives and things like that. But I mean, that was for product shoots and testing and stuff like that. So it's hard to say that I, you know, if just going out and not having a very specific purpose as far as, um, to get product photos and testing out gear and stuff like that, then yeah, there's things that I could have left back for sure. So, but yeah, but just those things, I would have cut at least 5, 8 pounds maybe.

Do you know what your like pack weight was?

It was well over 50. I want to say it was like 54.

Uh, meaning just like your sleep system?

Uh, no. Okay, not offhand.

I bet it was pretty high with that.

Oh, I'm sure.

Camouflage.

Yeah, I had the heaviest out there for sure. But yeah, but I mean, it worked great when we got the hail. Yeah, we got like, what, 3 hailstorms?

Yeah, I think so.

One during the day and 2 at night.

Yeah, several.

Which is wild because that was what, Wednesday evening, I think? Because it was a hailstorm that came through.

Oh yeah.

Then it cleared off, super bright moon, then another hailstorm came through like an hour or something later. Pretty crazy. I know. All in the middle of the night. Yeah, um, so let's talk a little bit about the hiking experience because this is, um, it was a lot more intense than, uh, than I was expecting. Patrick, what, what were you expecting when it came to the hike?

No expect— I didn't expect anything.

So, you know, I guess it's probably the best way to go into it, honestly.

I don't know, I just did it, but For me, my perspective, um, so day 1 was really kind of like mentally challenging. Um, first, I mean, I think I had a little more weight than the next few days to follow because just with the video equipment and, um, just, yeah, not really knowing what to expect, it kind of hit me in the face, I guess. So, Mm-hmm. Um, just mentally. The second half of day 1, I was just thinking like, how am I gonna do this for 4 more days?

Yeah.

That was, that was my thought in my head. So it was like more of like just this mental, like, like, how am I gonna survive essentially? So, and then, and then towards the end of day 1, I kind of got hit with a little bit of altitude sickness or I was just feeling lightheaded. So But thank goodness, uh, I woke up day 2 kind of ready to go.

And nice.

I think I had— yeah, just—

I think we dispersed your gear maybe too, a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, at that point. Yeah, no, definitely. I think, um, I think Jordan specifically was kind of looking after me and, and thought of like spreading out some of the weight. So yeah, that definitely helped me.

When you're at that 50-pound mark on a pack, it's heavy. Yeah, it's just like, even if you're at 45, but when you hit that 50-pound mark— I was over 50 the entire trip.

Yeah, it's just a lot. There's something about it that I noticed. It's like it does something psychologically to you, and it's like it brings up a lot of emotion. It's almost like you're like just trying to leave it all out there or something.

Yeah.

And it's like, as if there's less weight, it's like, oh, this is fine. But it's like there's so much, and you're like, and you're feeling it in your feet, and you're calves and your shoulders and everything. You're just like, uh, it's a lot.

Yeah, yeah, it's a good amount. Yeah.

How about you, Adam?

Um, well, I, I think my experience is a little bit different than everybody else's.

Oh yeah, let's, let's talk about your, um—

I mean, that, that first day, I felt great. I mean, I was like keeping up with Jake. I was like, this guy's not such a badass.

For the record, Jake is a mountain goat.

He's unreal. Yeah, he, he, he's like—

listen to this, he's like the Energizer Bunny.

It's crazy. Yeah, he doesn't feel anything. He can literally hike for hours and miles. It's unreal.

Mad respect, Jake. Mad respect.

Yeah, um, but no, that first day, like, I felt good, and then the night, uh, I went to bed and I was like, I feel kind of— I don't know, something feels weird.

Something's gurgling down there.

Something's not settling. And then the next morning, it's like, oh shit. There's a lot of shit. And then for the next 4 days, diarrhea every day. That, I think, is day 3. There we have it.

We've said diarrhea on the podcast.

I think it was 6 times.

6 times the wilderness poop and diarrhea.

Okay, so are we gonna blame this on the Mountain House?

I don't, I don't know. Initially I thought it was the Mountain House, and then I thought, well, maybe it's just all the freeze-dried food because I'm not used to eating it. And then after 5 days of it still happening, I was like, yeah, I don't know anymore. I think it's just a stomach bug maybe.

Well, and to kind of paint a picture of this, this is literally out in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah, I mean, elevation, like we saw— we, we passed what, 3 people on the first day?

Yeah.

And then we didn't see anyone from day 2 until day 5.

So if you have an issue like that, yeah, I mean, there's only one way to get out.

I've never had my butt on so many rocks in my life. The amount of time I was sitting down on this. So that, that put a whole nother dynamic in it because I was depleting myself also because I was— yep, I was getting rid of anything I was putting in my system. And then I couldn't keep enough water down. Yeah, or food I didn't want to eat because I was afraid I was making it worse.

So then—

I will say, I think this is one of the important things that a lot of people forget about is nutrition. In the backcountry. And that's why like before going on the trip, Jordan sent over like a list of foods, like freeze-dried meals that would be good. And how I was looking at it was what is going to have— I was looking at the nutrient value as far as what has the most protein, how would I normally eat. And that's both good and bad because I don't do many carbs or a lot of sugar at all. In the mountains at higher altitude, and when you're exerting yourself that much, you actually need a little bit more fat, a little more carbs. However, I'm gonna take a wild guess and, and say that you probably were looking at how will this taste as opposed to just—

No, I, I picked off of how I eat because all that food I was getting, if you looked at the ingredients, it's like grass-fed beef, free-range chicken, veggie.

For Mountain House?

No, no, no, no, that was the only exception. Okay, I, I picked 2 Mountain House exceptions. Like, you know, I'll have a couple cheat breakfasts.

You got cheated.

And they ended up screwing me. Cheated your ass.

But still, they— like, Jordan and Jake both recommended like, hey, try out some of these freeze-dried meals if you're not used to them. I didn't take their advice and I should have.

Ah, okay.

That, that, that's what I would recommend. Like, if you're, if you're not used to freeze-dried food at all, if you're about to be doing it, I would try it at home, see what it does to you. How your system handles it.

It's definitely different because it is— a lot of them don't necessarily have a ton of flavor. No. And when you're up there, you're tired, and especially if the altitude is affecting you, you don't necessarily want to eat. So something with flavor might be a little bit more enticing. Yeah, I think—

yeah, no, I mean, I did— I didn't look forward to eating at all up there. I mean, I look forward to taking a shit because I felt better after, and to the cold plunges. Like, yeah, there's Those are my highlights.

Yeah, the cold plunge, the mountain lakes. I will say that the Peak Refuel meals are probably my favorite. They seem to be the most flavorful and the most nutrient-dense.

What was the one I tried at a party of yours last night?

That was the teriyaki chicken. Was that Peak Refuel? That was Peak Refuel.

That was actually one of the best tasting ones I've had.

My 2 favorite were the Alpen granola.

The Alpen Shield granola?

Yeah, and then the Peak.

Yeah, Patrick, how about you? You just like that kale stuff, didn't you?

My, my favorite was the breakfast skillet.

Okay. Yeah.

And then the one that I regretted not having was the biscuit. What is it?

There's the gravy biscuit and sausage gravy from Peak Refuel.

You were eating a lot of those wild zorzas, weren't you?

I thought I had a lot of wild zorzas.

Yeah. Okay.

Which are, I mean, Those are fine. I mean, they just didn't have a lot of flavor to them.

Then we also had some of the Next Mile meals as well, I guess. Those were, those are okay.

Yeah, I think I might have tried one.

Yeah, I don't know if I got any of those.

Got it.

Food in the backcountry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that definitely makes it a little, a little interesting when you're going back there. But we did get fresh fish.

Yeah, we did.

Yeah, so we're gonna do a little fly fishing and caught some brook trouts and grilled them up on the Granite Grill, which Was delicious. Then we had to proceed to, uh, clean all the, all the utensils and grill and everything really well because we were deep in grizzly bear country and threw out the remains in the river. Um, and then we did see a paw print the next morning. So apparently there was one, uh, nearby, which is, which is fun. Um, Patrick, let's hear a little bit about your experience when it came to the photography and videography side of things as far as, um, you know, getting photos for ReWild gear And also for Jake and Jordan for the Wilderness event.

Sure. Yeah. So, um, you know, my role as a photographer and filmmaker was to capture, uh, you know, photographs and, and film videos, uh, specifically for Rewild Gear, um, kind of in their launch and for their products and, and also just, you know, showing off the products in the field. Along with then, you know, shooting some content for Jordan and Jake and Wilderness Event. So, you know, that was my focus. And kind of quickly I realized that it was going to be kind of very different than what a typical day of work looks like for me.

And I—

Slightly different than filming a wedding, eh?

Yeah. And part of, part of that I kind of knew going into it, and part of it, um, was definitely a surprise, you know. Um, I, I think I had mentioned like earlier on, like probably just blocking out 2 days to kind of schedule out, you know, different shots and kind of doing it off to the side opposed to during, um, you know, this You know, 5-day hike, um, would have been more ideal in, in a lot of ways. But the really cool thing is, is, you know, we got to go and see so many landscapes that otherwise we would have definitely not have captured. So, um, you know, there was definitely this balancing act of, um, you know, trying to capture the moments, but then also realizing that, um, You know, in certain situations, I just kind of had to be part of the group and hiking and, um, also pick my moments of when, you know, possibly we could stop and, and, you know, take a few photos and, uh, take some video. And then other opportunities where I would have liked to, but, you know, it just— we had to keep on going because we, we had to hike, you know, and, and make it to our campsite. So— That's kind of— that was, that was kind of my perspective and kind of like, yeah, just this balancing act of really trying to find those moments but also realize that, you know, it wasn't all about taking the photographs and video.

Did you find it difficult to do a strenuous trip like this but also being like The mindset, like work mindset of I'm so tired, but I still need to be thinking about like, here's a good shot, here's not. Was that difficult?

Yeah, it definitely was. I'd say it was definitely more difficult earlier on. And then I feel like I got in a little better groove towards the end. But for me, it was definitely a challenge. Because it was hard to go from work mode to, okay, not work mode and be okay with that and then go back into it. So it was definitely an obstacle. Um, it was, it was kind of a new experience for me and I definitely wouldn't, like, I don't regret doing it, but, um, you know, I have now a new perspective for, you know, future work, things like that.

Mm-hmm.

But, um, yeah, that's cool.

Nice. Well, what else do we have on the agenda today? What are the parts of the trip you guys want to chat about?

Well, we kind of talked about this a little bit, but, um, what was one of your favorite pieces of gear that you brought?

Ah, yeah, good question. I would say mine were my First Light Corgett, uh, Um, Corgi Guide Pants. Those, I wore them the whole time and they were amazing. Super comfortable, relatively lightweight, um, repelled water and moisture and everything, sweat and all that. Um, yeah, I'd say that was— would have been my favorite one. How about you, Adam?

Well, I'd, uh, probably 2. I would say Darn Tough socks. I've, I've worn them for a long time, but this trip really pushed them, I think, to the limits, and like they held up Very well. Um, that and then the Kifaru Slick Bag. Yeah, at the end of the day, you crawl into that, you just feel like you're home. You feel safe and secure and warm.

Those are good. Nice.

Yeah.

David, how about you?

I would say I kind of have 2. Well, this one's kind of— it sounds silly, but it was super practical and I used it literally the whole trip. But just a merino wool neck gaiter. like a 150 weight, and I would have it around my neck.

I still don't know why you were wearing that the whole time.

Because, man, so here's the deal. I think I was probably like 7 years old. I guarantee that my ears got frostbite. And so now if like I get much wind on them, especially if I'm hiking or like I go for a run, it'll give me a really bad headache. So I have to either wear a beanie or something over, but usually a beanie I get too hot in. So I'm telling you, this little neck gaiter, I'd put it over my ears I could hike. It was great. So that's one thing that I used the whole entire trip. And then the Lost Park Parka from Kufaru. That thing, well, it's basically a slick bag, but just in a jacket form.

Just waist up.

I mean, for mornings and evenings, it was fantastic.

Yeah.

And even sleeping, like, I put it down at the bottom of my sleeping bag so my feet wouldn't get cold. It's a fantastic piece.

Nice.

Yeah.

Patrick?

Yeah, for me, I feel like Um, my biggest concern was my feet going into it because I feel like, you know, obviously you're going hiking. Like, if your feet aren't doing well, the rest is going to struggle. Exactly. So, and I was actually really surprised. Um, so actually I, I had Darn Toughs and they were incredible. I wore them all 5 days. They were perfect. Uh, Vermont made.

That's right.

Shout out to the Olsen brothers. Um, and then the other thing is, uh, I had bought new hiking boots, Merrell hiking boots, and, um, those were phenomenal too. They didn't cause me really any problem at all. I got a little blister at the last couple hours of hiking.

Did your feet feel bruised at all while hiking?

My—

no, they didn't. Uh, my— I mean, besides the typical aches and pains of, you know, hiking, there was no, there was no added pain, if that makes sense. Did you tape?

Tape your feet at all?

I took— I had 2 pieces of— 2 strips on either back of my heel, but—

So the Merrells, they're a little more flexible, right?

Yeah.

I have a theory here because, Dave, both you and I have the Schnee's Beartooth. My feet felt bruised like almost the whole time. Yeah. How were yours?

They didn't feel bruised. I just had a little bit of heel slip.

Okay. And so I didn't have that at all.

I just did it. Well, I did the initial part and then I kind of locked down the heel. Um, they didn't feel bruised at all. Just a couple of kind of hot spots. Okay.

Interesting. Yeah. But Adam, you said that yours did a little bit, but yours are real heavy because you have—

Yeah, mine are real heavy. And I think also being that they're all full grain leather. Yeah, I think they stretched a lot. So my foot was slipping in them.

Got it. Um, okay. Yeah. So my thought, mine definitely just like, and I have wide feet, especially like wide toes and stuff. And so like they were both my baby toes, my big toes were rubbing, um, and even though I taped them up. So, um, but my theory is that like the, um, the Merrells that you have, Patrick, because they flex a little bit more and all those rocks and stuff that we were going on, that makes it a little bit easier. And so your foot can move and flex a bit more, and so it probably would have been better for that. However, they probably weren't quite as waterproof.

These were— they were advertised waterproof, and then, uh, a few days before I sprayed them with waterproof solutions.

Good call.

So I, I mean, I definitely tried not to get them wet, but, um, a couple times when we did—

Some of the stream crossings.

Yeah, they, it, they, they dealt well with it. So—

I mean, if you looked at, um, Jordan and Jake's boots, they look like they had more flexibility in theirs.

Um, Jordan was wearing a pair of Crispies and Jake had some Scarpas.

Yeah.

Um, they're, they're definitely more lightweight than ours.

Um, yeah, so I mean, it's just interesting that based on the terrain where you're going, the experience, the equipment may need to change quite a bit.

And I think especially everyone's different. Like, I think boots are one of those things, yeah, so individualized. So I mean, there are people that will run the most flexible boot and in, in terrain like that and love it, but then there are people that will run a mountaineering boot in that terrain and love it. So I think it just, you have to Define what works for you.

Yeah. And I think that I may need something that's a little bit more flexible.

Yeah.

Um, just for my type of feet. Maybe, maybe not, but could be. Yeah. Let's talk about gear testing. So we did do a lot of product shots and photography for ReWild Gear products. So specifically the Gasper 4 knife, the Granite Grill trailside utensil, the Firelight bellows, and the Tender Ridge Ferro Rod. So David, you want to talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, so maybe we'll start out with the Granite Grill. I was really happy with how it, how it worked. I think it worked exactly how we had hoped it would. We got to cook fish on it.

Boil some water.

Yeah, boil some water. And you know, I think the overall design we were really particular about in You know, making sure the spacing was correct, making sure it was long enough to put over 2 rocks or, you know, logs or whatever you have. And I, I mean, I, I thought it went really well. I think the testing went well. I was really happy with how, um, yeah, just how it worked. I was really pleased. How about you guys?

Yeah, Adam?

Yeah, no, I agree. I think we got the dimensions down pretty good, actually.

Yeah, I was, I was pretty impressed with the grill as well.

Yeah, putting those fish on, I think, confirmed all of our—

Yeah, because they weren't huge, they were just small little brook trout.

Yeah, yeah. I'd say the knife as well. Um, I used some, uh, some, uh, whittling stuff there and, um, was making some feather sticks and, uh, using just like the ferro rod notch to make some fine shavings to start a fire. And I thought it worked really well. Um, You know, from the first prototype we, we had, and we were testing that one for a long time, and we increased the handle size just a smidge.

Yep.

And just to get a little bit more palm swell, and it feels so good. I mean, the other felt great, but this just feels fantastic.

It cuts amazingly.

Yeah, yeah. And then just having, I mean, the S35VN steel now, um, I mean, it's just amazing. You know, after we filleted the fish, just Dunking in the river, having the TerraTuff scales, um, it just— it's, it's fantastic. Yeah, really happy with that.

Yep. Um, I did some chopping and batoning with a little bit and worked like a dream. I mean, it's not that big of a knife for those types of stuff, but still, it's gonna be solid for bushcraft too.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Playing and skinning and all that. Yeah, just general camp tasks. Um, I'll talk a little bit about the Trailside Utensil, which I used the entire time.

Yeah, you use that.

Yeah, I use it exclusively. That's the, that's the only utensil I use the whole time, and it It worked amazing. And I know there's already some tweaks that we have in place when we get our shipment in, in a few weeks, so that based on what I had tested out already, but just using it exclusively, it worked really well. I mean, especially in the freeze-dried meal packs, you know, it's long. So when it's fully extended, so it's long enough and works very, very well.

Yeah.

I was very impressed with it.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

What else do we have?

We have the, uh, the ferro rod and the bellows.

Yeah, yeah, the, um, you know, we used both of those when we were cooking the fish. So, uh, you know, the ferro rod worked really well, and then we got the bellows in action and really—

Yeah, really helps getting the fire going.

Yeah, I mean, it started up really well, and even the, the wood that we were using, it was, you know, it was a little bit wet, so—

Yeah, it just rained right before.

Yeah, yeah, so the extra oxygen And then of course our Mountain Trucker hats, which we all wore throughout the entire trip, and they're probably the best adventure hats that, uh, yeah, even Patrick was sporting one the whole time.

That's right, sir.

Yes indeed. So let's, uh, let's just recap. Um, what would you guys have changed about this trip, this event, um, especially for other people that may want to go on a deep backcountry excursion such as this?

Try to go in, um, May time so that you can have a fire. We were in a no-burn time, so we couldn't really have a fire out there much. So, um, I mean, I think that was my biggest— I wouldn't say complaint, but regret— not having a fire every night.

Yeah. What about as far as just the planning and the trip and everything, and just where we went, what we saw, what we did, all that?

Um, I would like, I think, having a little bit more downtime to do some more fishing and some more downtime in the evening, probably.

Uh, maybe eat non—

Yeah, maybe, maybe not. Maybe eat more fish and less freeze-dried food. Yeah, yeah, that would do it for me.

Dave, how about you, man? I don't, I don't know that it would change much, honestly. Like Any outdoor experience I have, I just kind of put in my tool bag because I don't know, I learned a ton on this trip. Um, you know, I got to do a lot with like land navigation.

Yeah, you were really— Yeah, yeah.

So that's something I've wanted to get into for a really long time and just really haven't taken the time to do it. So this was a cool, cool opportunity to do it. So, um, Jake, uh, really kind of started to show me, you know, the ropes of it. And so That was a lot of fun. So yeah, really any outdoor experience I just kind of like to put in my bag of experiences. And this one too, I hadn't done any outdoor trip in a little while. I guess the last one I did was probably in the Smokies in March. And so, I think everyone's taste for the outdoors is a little bit different as far as what they want, how much downtime they want outdoors or the pace or how much strenuous activity. And so, I think I think for me, I was just so excited about like getting outdoors for an extended period of time that I didn't even care how hard it was. Just being outdoors, seeing the mountains, being in the mountains was just, you know, pure gift. So yeah, I don't know that I would change anything about it. It was just, it was a ton of fun. Super grateful to be on the trip. Yeah.

Patrick, how about you?

Yeah, for me, I feel like, um, being a little newer to doing kind of this You know, backpack excursion type trip. Um, in hindsight, I think, you know, this trip isn't probably my wheelhouse in regards to what, you know, I envisioned for an outdoor experience. But, um, like, certainly would never try to take it back. You know, I don't regret going on the trip and I think, uh, that's good.

We're happy to hear that, Ben.

Yeah, I, I think—

Adam, you bought that ticket for me and I really wish you wouldn't have.

But I think knowing now, you know, what we went through with, you know, 5 days backpack, setting up camp every night, I think, um, something a little more ideal for me would probably be kind of setting up a base camp for like a 3-night Um, you know, trip and then having a place that you go back every night and then kind of doing day trips. And so you don't— the big thing for me is just not having to, you know, carry around 40, 50 pounds, um, on your back every day. And I think that would kind of make it a little more enjoyable for me.

Yeah, it makes sense. I'd say for me, um, every experience is so different, especially in the wilderness, and I always come away with them just with Deeper appreciation for modern life and conveniences because it's— we live in such a microwave society and it's all about the convenience. And so when we get back into nature, into the wilderness, um, we're doing without running water, normal food, so many things. Um, you know, you're taking a shit in the woods, you're— we're filtering—

Or a lot of shits in the woods.

You know, we're filtering water. out of the lake or out of the stream. And so you learn to appreciate things so much more by this. You know, you see there's a tree that's growing there and it's like a comfortable little patch of grass. You sit down, it's like, oh, that's comfortable, as opposed to there's rocks or roots or something over here.

Yeah.

So it's, it's the little things that I learned to appreciate so much more. And so being mindful of that and taking that back into the quote unquote real world, the busyness of everyday life, and just Trying to slow down and appreciate those things because we talked about a little bit on the trip, maybe Jordan and myself, about hedonic adaptation. We just grow accustomed to these conveniences and we want everything to be like that all the time. It's only when we get out of our comfort zone, we get back into nature in the wild that we reset ourselves and can appreciate those things that we have and not just take them for granted. Yeah, for sure. So all that to say, as far as the trip itself goes, the things that I might change, um, and just great experience overall, but my ideal would be definitely below the tree line and not above, not so much rock, um, more in the trees. I'm happier in trees and running water and stuff like that for sure.

Yeah.

Um, and setting up a base camp and doing more day hikes and not just packing up every day and night, 'cause that just kind of got a little tedious and, um, It was good overall. I mean, it was— that was great, but that would be my—

I think a good way to put it would be like, I would not have changed anything for this past trip because it's a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Moving forward, the next trip, I would like it to be—

That's a good way to think about it.

Dot, dot, dot.

Yeah.

So like, I don't think I would have changed anything for this trip because I'll— I don't know if I ever experienced something like that again. Hopefully, but I don't know. So like, moving forward, yeah, like have some more downtime. In the evenings, have a fire.

For sure. And I also realized that this was one of the most physically exhausting things that I've ever done. And at 42, I don't necessarily want to push myself to that extreme so much, even though it probably is good for me every now and then. And so, you know, push it, but maybe not quite to that limit because there was times like, man, I don't know if I can make another step. Yeah. And like last night, was that Thursday night, I guess.

Yeah, last night was a push.

We rolled into camp and I was like, I took my hat off.

Yeah, you were done.

I was like, I took my jacket off.

I laid down on a rock for like 20 minutes and just couldn't do it.

Yes.

Like, I was just done. And I mean, every once in a while that's good to really push yourself to that limit. And some people, they just get off to doing that all the time. And that's fine. That works for them. That's not necessarily what I want to do all the time. That's one of the things that I realized. I love these outdoor excursions. I love being in nature. I love being in the outdoors. But I wouldn't want to be there all the time, you know, because I like having that balance. Yeah, I love the mountains, I love the ocean, I love travel, I love all these different things. And it's not just one extreme or the other, it's finding that balance with all of them.

Yeah. And I think too, you know, kind of to your point, Seth, everyone's taste for the outdoors is a little bit different. And I think, you know, for me, I remember this one point when we were hiking to this glacier and like on the way There's like this really high peak that we were standing on, and you could just see, you know, peak after peak after peak after peak and lakes all over. And it just really kind of catches you like, wow, like we're just so small.

Yep.

And we're literally in the middle of nowhere, away from everyone. There probably hasn't been a human back here in who knows, who knows when. And I don't know, I think everyone has those moments in different places. For sure.

I think me and Jordan talked about that some. Like, you get out there and you, you realize all the little things back home in the day-to-day, like, in the big scheme of things, they're so insignificant, but yet it becomes such a big deal.

Yeah.

And then, and then you're out here in the mountains, you go back and things don't bother you like they normally do. But then, like, I think it also becomes hard because other people don't have that same perspective because they didn't just come back from the mountains. So, like, right, trying to, like, balance.

Well, yeah, I mean, even just like getting off the mountain and getting in the cars and driving back and you're just like, you're dead and you're like information overload. Like we went into a restaurant to go grab a burger, you know, a couple hours out because it's like a 4-hour drive from, from, from where we flew in. Yeah. And so just, you know, stopping off to get gas and get a burger and everything. And it's just like there's TVs on, there's tons of people everywhere talking and you're just like, uh, it's exhausting. Yeah. No, it's like this Sensory overload.

Yeah.

How did Jake explain it? Um, basically like our mind, it should be a sponge, but because modern society, we're just inundated with so much information all the time, it's become a filter.

Yeah.

So we have to filter out everything as opposed to absorbing it.

Yeah. Which is—

there's just too much to absorb. There's too much going on. You can't even do it.

Yeah. That's why I think, I mean, having these, having these kinds of trips set aside, I mean, I think it's a game changer. Just You can just reset and have silence. Just, yeah, I mean, I think it's awesome. I think it's awesome.

There's nothing like waking up early in the morning, getting out of your tent, making some coffee, and watching the sun as it slowly peeks over the horizon.

Yeah.

And watching the stream as it goes by and just sitting there and just meditating on the water, on the air, on the cool breeze, on the coffee, whatever. It just, it resets you. And I, people that have never experienced that, I don't even know how to describe it to them.

Get out there.

Yeah, because it doesn't matter what you do as long as you enjoy it. I mean, just getting into nature and disconnecting from all of the phones, the computers, the messages, just everything that's nonstop. And there's so many ways to do that. You know, and one of the things I was thinking about, like so many people, they want to push their limits every single time. You know, they want to win at everything, whether that's climbing Everest, whether that's summiting, you know, however many 14,000-footers there are in the country or things like that. And that's great if you want to do that, but it's like at the end of the day, what are you trying to prove? Don't need to prove anything. Just be yourself. Do you.

But how do you know they're trying to prove something? Maybe they're not.

Yeah.

Maybe that's their thing.

Maybe that's an internal driving motivation and that's great. That's not mine.

No. Yeah, everyone's got a different— for sure, different mechanism.

Yeah, totally. Well, any closing thoughts, guys?

Thanks to Jake and Jordan for a good time.

Patrick for coming.

Yep, for Patty Mac.

He did some incredible work.

Can't wait to get the photos of you guys back.

Great week.

All right, thanks everybody for listening. This is the Adventure Made Podcast. We'll see you next time.

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